I love the people Joe has on. They make you think and question things! Even the crackpots!

@SassyShay7

4 ай бұрын

😂

@marjoriejohnson6535

3 ай бұрын

Thatsa good name fir this guy.

The natural and annual prairie fires are far more impactful then campfires. The little ice age started in 1303, Columbus 1492, farming of the Great Plains, end of the massive fires, post civil war, none of this adds up to his statements.

@jeffreyhill4705

Жыл бұрын

The Younger Dryes impacted the wildlife far more than people.

@TonyTrupp

9 ай бұрын

@@jeffreyhill4705the megafauna survived through dozens of ice ages, and their populations have been shown to actually expand during those cold periods because the grass lands and savannas expanded. Plus the younger dryas was mostly a north atlantic phenomena, where the great plains and rockies didn’t really see much of a temperature drop during that period. Globally the younger dryas only got about half way colder compared to the depth of the last glacial maximum. And south america continued to warm throughout that entire period, so the YD can’t really be the cause of the south american extinctions.

@ninjanik2095

5 ай бұрын

well, he started with 8000 years ago and your mentioning things no where near that time line expect recent

@jkamin88

4 ай бұрын

the little Ice age was cause by a volcano in south east Asia during the 1700's America revolution war was fought during the cooling and the French revolution was cause by the cooler temps.

@abeedhal6519

4 ай бұрын

Lmao, classic defensive american comment.

i’m surprised he doesn’t cite the volcanoes and ash cover theory for the little ice age. Like a more modern example, the “the year with no summer” 1860-s-ish or I can’t remember what year… was caused because of a volcanoe explosion eruption where the ash dust went all in the sky and was blown all around the earth and made a layer in the atmosphere and dimmed the sun and so, there was no summer that year!

@sunfarmer1797

4 ай бұрын

Yes, I think it was 1830s though, it snowed in July on my family's farm in New York, they had to graze the cows in swamp grasses because most crops failed,,,somehow they survived, im still farming here today 200+years later

@Hashishin13

4 ай бұрын

There were some in medieval times recorded too. I think one of the Iceland volcanoes had a lesser effect like this in living memory.

@fl350r

4 ай бұрын

The 1815 eruption of Mount Tambora gave us 1816, "The year without summer."

@nicholaswachter1974

3 ай бұрын

And a famous novel . . . . Frankenstein, by Mary Shelley, published 1818

It’s I like this guy but it’s hard to take him seriously when he claims the lack of campfires caused the little ice age.

@TheNaturalust

5 ай бұрын

Yes he is a complete idiot that is trying to make an impact with written paper in the academic field.

@DwaynesWorld007

4 ай бұрын

He's not claiming that he's presenting the hypothesis also its not lack of fires specifically its the carbon that 1,000,000 camp fires and stoves was putting into the atmosphere.

@TheNaturalust

4 ай бұрын

@@DwaynesWorld007 It is still an idiotic hypothesis and the evidence of what really happened is accumulating pretty quickly. When they built the coffer dams to make the Fort Peck Reservoir in Montana, they discovered many HUGE bison skulls, several of which I have seen. Beautiful skulls in great shape.

@hachmejo

4 ай бұрын

It's hard to take you seriously when you claim that tens of millions of fires from civilizations spanning two continents were not impacting global climate. The gentleman on Joe's video is speaking of legitimate theories that can be argued for by vast empirical evidence.

@chrisubben8833

4 ай бұрын

Genghis Kahn some scholars believe may have killed an estimated 30% of the world's total human population. That's a mass number of people, potentially double the entire population of the western hemisphere. By this gentleman's hypothesis there should have been a HUGE global ice age resurgence as a result. These scholars are sitting around basically guessing and saying "I think...." the same you or I. They don't have any hard facts and people need to stop assuming that every single new hypothesis is the final sum conclusive answer because it never is.

Can you imagine how much time this guy spent preparing for this interview, on Wikipedia

@Takethepiss

4 ай бұрын

Lol

Our Paleolithic ancestors were taking down huge ancient animals. The bad thing is that it was dangerous, the good thing is that one animal could feed the whole clan for several days.

@user-xz1lm6vw8s

4 ай бұрын

And yet guys like this scientist thinks that humans were the cause of the megafauna extinction. That's always been a ridiculous idea and your point supports that it is. Yes, a bidon or mastodon could feed a small village for several days or even up to a week. But somehow ALL the mastodons were wiped out. And according to guys like this guest, it was done in a short period of time. Those two points are mutually exclusive.

@04:15 This is yet another example of rewriting history to match the current hysterical idea that CO2 controls the climate.

😂. Camp fires didn't cause the little ice age. Good god.

@Parker307

Жыл бұрын

Native american people used fires on the landscape in other ways than just campfires. So much so that many species of plants are adapted to live with and need fire for their life cycle

@dangerousdylan6262

Жыл бұрын

​@Parker that also happened naturally via lightning strikes but now instead of letting them burn we quickly put them out....

@Parker307

Жыл бұрын

@@dangerousdylan6262 Just because lightning started fires naturally does not mean that humans did not start fires for their own purposes. Human beings use fire. It is kind of a thing with our species.

@constipatedkangaroo

Жыл бұрын

Solar minimum/maximum activity is the main reason why, it's well known. This last winter in north America was the worst in 15 years due to a solar minimum. Global warming is largely a hoax to tax the poor. Mt. St. Helen's has the fastest growing glacier in the world, on the 46th parallel, after losing all of its glaciers in 1980, and 1200 ft of elevation. Weird I thought global warming was doing the opposite? This is happening from Alaska to California, Alpine glaciers have been growing since 2012. Look it up, google and KZread constantly ban all info associated with contradicting global warming. Shit hole city/concrete jungle islands are getting hotter and bigger every year; imagine that, weird. Outlying rural mountainous areas are getting colder though.

@greyt1972

Жыл бұрын

Where you at? I'm BBQing fish everyday

It was from the cataclysm 12k years ago, not over-hunting.

@TheMMAKasual

4 ай бұрын

Good to know you’re an expert, and not some uneducated bum on youtube

@hhhhippo

4 ай бұрын

Randall Carlson @@TheMMAKasual

@TheMMAKasual

4 ай бұрын

@@hhhhippo so you don’t know shit and are just regurgitating what other people have said, so much so that you literally just said an intellectuals name lmao

@isaiahm883

3 ай бұрын

bro said the cataclysm 😭

@hhhhippo

3 ай бұрын

Check the moon, you'll find some holes in it.@@isaiahm883

Mini ice age because less campfires?! That's stupid

@GeoJoMarsh

3 ай бұрын

lol Your stupid 😂thanks for making my morning

@Operation_C4

3 ай бұрын

The Americas had a population on par, if not larger than Europe in the 15th century. The death of ~60-100 million people (and their civilizations) across two whole continents would not just directly lead to a reduction in carbon emissions, but also ecological reverberations as the top apex predator was removed and reforestation set in. Even if it wasn't the main driver, it could have easily had a major impact.

@billydakid9814

3 ай бұрын

Albinos

@coreyayers7933

3 ай бұрын

@@Operation_C4 you said nothing of value. just word salad.

Yeah the campfires where forests of fires, practice in north American.

Underrated video and channel, thanks dofsky.

It's amazing how Dan Flores can speak with such an absolute assertion of what happened thousands of years ago. He has no idea because he can't - he wasn't around to see how the animals lived, bred, and died! It's all speculation. Heck, even seeing bones with carve marks doesn't mean a kill. The animal could have already been dead and the humans just carved away the good meat of the carcass. I would first question Flores' personal bias against humans before believing his opinions - which are suspect in their partianship.

Joe you have the best guests.

@remcovanvliet3018

4 ай бұрын

Meh. This guy spins a nice yarn, sure. But it's mostly made up of bullshit fibers.

as soon as he blamed the little ice age on manmade fires, i knew he was a crackpot

The American Lion was 50% or more larger than an African Lion. Why couldn't it kill a bison? Saber tooth cats where as large or nearly as large as the North American Lion. Cave Bears were larger than Grizzly Bears than are known to have kill bison and finally the Short Faced Bear was the largest bear we know of could easily killed a bison. The idea that only wolves and humans could kill bison has some large holes in it.

@Critical_Stinking

3 ай бұрын

He said 'are' the most effective, not 'were'.

@Supiragon1998

3 ай бұрын

Wrong, it was more like about 25% larger/heavier.

@shafqatishan437

3 ай бұрын

He meant modern bison

@YaBoiDREX

2 ай бұрын

@@shafqatishan437No he didn’t.

Amazing man........ Truly....... One x

Many of the grasslands were replaced by woodland at the end of the ice age so huge grazers went away, not just human pressure.

To say that humans or lack of human activity caused the little ice age is absolutely preposterous! The little ice age was caused by a few factors primary of which was volcanic eruptions, a dip in solar activity and changes in orbital cycles. In fact 99.9% of our current climate and all past climate have been from natural cycles. If you take the longest known terrestrial temperature records and do a FFT to find the main periods of the forcing terms it lines up nearly perfectly with the known melancovich cycles, orbital cycles, and solar cycles. If you then future cast the temperature with those known periods and intensities you find that you can predict with near perfect precision the current global temperature trends. The human impact is completely indescribable and CO2 is a lagging indicator which follows temperature. CO2 also has varied significantly when you look at plant stomal data which has a time averaging of 20-30 years and the average CO2 level is much higher than what ice cores show. This higher average is also shown in geocarb sediment data, which has a time averaging of thousands of years. Anthropogenic global warming and man made climate change are complete and under garbage and based on lies and half truths that have been twisted out of context.

@Noodleydoo

4 ай бұрын

Absolutely true. You and I look at climate over mellenia whereas many today seem to think "climate" started 20 years ago.

@seanlennon5986

3 ай бұрын

Nope

Joe looks like he smoked enough weed to sedate, no anesthetize a herd of Bison. "Woooooo,"😮

The most honest phrase an academic could say, but never will say is "we don't know why _________ happened." I loved how this guy spewed all of these ambiguous theories, as known facts.

The comments about dwarf animals being able to make more offspring sooner because the gestation period is shorter or they can reproduce sooner is laughable. Makes absolutely no sense.

@brettlord6379

3 ай бұрын

It makes a lot of sense. The largest animals on Earth typically have the longest gestation cycles

The Ethiopian Bull

smaller bison eat less, so a larger herd can survive on a given area of land. this means that more smaller bison can survive predation to win the numbers game.

This was really interesting. Bison are one of my favorite animals and I like to learn about them.

Get this man a glass of water!

Solar cycles correlate strongly with periods of global cooling and warming and are much more likely to have caused the little ice age than a reduction in native cooking fires.This is preposterous in fact.

The mini ice age started in the mid 1300s

Only humans and wolves are effective hunters of bison. Bears: Am I a joke to you?

@ggtjr4

4 ай бұрын

Compared to a bison, yes

@july9566

3 ай бұрын

I’ve seen bears run from bison

@snicklesnockle7263

3 ай бұрын

@@july9566 And I've seen a bear drag down a bison

@davidhearn356

3 ай бұрын

@@snicklesnockle7263you do know how rare that is right bears rarely hunt bison for a reason

@snicklesnockle7263

3 ай бұрын

@@davidhearn356 it was a young one I think

They can see the old cities in the amazon. If you look up terra preata soils. Those people made tremendous amounts of charcoal and pottery. But the little ice age started earlier. The medieval optimum was as or slightly warmer than today.

It is mind-blowing to think of .

Junk science sounds so cool and just on the edge of possibility that it’s tempting to go hmmmmm….

@jeremythebeer8609

3 ай бұрын

So true. Addictive.

When you know you are listening to someone that is just making shit up.

@coreyhutchinson4033

4 күн бұрын

Better than what the "news" has to say

Bison 🦬 and buffalo 🐃 are two completely separate animals!!

@iwkaoy8758

4 ай бұрын

Different species,same any mole. Hue men's divide any moles inn two different species. Example - Coyotes are just dwarf wolves. Foxes are dwarf coyotes. Isle dog breeds are dwarf wolves. Hue men's are dividing dim width names placed own dim.

So are we.

Interesting video

Throw the odd fact in with conjecture and sell it...not all, but mostly bulldust...🤯🤔

Remember when you could see junk science like this on the front of the tabloids in the grocery store check out line? The tabloids are gone but we have these scientists on podcasts now, and they're surprisingly as believable.

I can confirm this after seeing the skeletons myself at the berringia museum in the Yukon

Thus guy is nuts. Bergmann's rule is that the closer to the poles (or the colder the climate) the larger the species. It has a lot to do with heating efficiency. The warming after the Pleistocene resulted in numerous genuses evolving smaller. Short-faced bears, ground sloths, mammoths, etc. disappeared and the ecological niches they occupied were taken over by smaller species. His timeline for disease transmission is is so far out of whack. Smallpox takes 7 to 17 days to incubate, so native people weren't dying within days. 57 million people in the Western Hemisphere? Except for a few areas in Central and South America, you are talking about small hunter-gatherer bands that wouldn't be more than around 20 people. Modern people forget how much the mobility of the horse changed the life of natives. Heating and cooking fires? This guy is way out there.

@Scepticalasfuk

4 ай бұрын

At the high point of its development, Cahokia was the largest urban center north of the great Mesoamerican cities in Mexico and Central America. Home to about 1,000 people before circa 1050, its population grew rapidly after that date. According to a 2007 study in Quaternary Science Reviews, "Between AD 1050 and 1100, Cahokia's population increased from between 1,400 and 2,800 people to between 10,200 and 15,300 people",[21] an estimate that applies only to a 1.8-square-kilometre (0.69 sq mi) high-density central occupation area.[22] Archaeologists estimate the city's population at between 6,000 and 40,000 at its peak,[23] with more people living in outlying farming villages that supplied the main urban center. As a result of archeological excavations in the early 21st century, new residential areas were found to the west of Cahokia; this discovery increased estimates of historic area population.[23] If the highest population estimates are correct, Cahokia was larger than any subsequent city in the United States until the 1780s, when Philadelphia's population grew beyond 40,000.[24] Its population may have been larger than contemporaneous London[25] and Paris.[26] Wikipedia Iroquois: Food production Further information: Economy of the Iroquois See also: Three Sisters (agriculture) The Iroquois are a mix of horticulturalists, farmers, fishers, gatherers and hunters, though traditionally their main diet has come from farming. For the Iroquois, farming was traditionally women's work and the entire process of planting, maintaining, harvesting and cooking was done by women.[178] Your knowledge of pre-Columbian North America is deficient.

@craig9146

4 ай бұрын

Nice dodge, but the issue Flores brought up was that bison were dwarfs. His explanation is wildly speculative with disparate occurences that are not possible. A side issue was that there were 56 to 57 million humans living in the Western Hemisphere. When exposed to Eastern Hemisphere human diseases it caused a great dieoff that led to the Little Ice Age because they weren't burning to cook and heat with. That's crazy. I have read some of the work on Cahokia and I think the population estimates are far overblown. The extent of development in the area could also be explained by repeated movement as agriculture sapped the soils of nutrients. Flooding of the Missouri River has hardly been a reliable occurrence and deep tilling was improbable by hand on a large scale. Apparently, you're not sceptical enough.@@Scepticalasfuk

There were bison in the grasslands of southern Michigan.

Canadian bison 🦬 are huge

1450? Columbus was born in 1452, don’t think the Europeans were involved unless the Viking’s who got there centuries before were up to something we do know 😂.

Wouldn't this suggest that during the age of the super-bison, the winters were very mild? Every litter of animals born have a spread of minor variations. Larger animals are stronger and more able to fight off large predators, but smaller animals need less food to survive through a lean winter.

@archierowe3893

4 ай бұрын

This is not necessarily true. Bergmann’s rule strongly suggests that, within a species or genus, the larger subspecies or species (respectively) will live in the colder climates. This is true for penguin species (meaning larger species in the coldest climates) and for whitetail deer (larger subspecies in the colder climates).

Um... Wendy horses introduced by the apanish? How did they ...oh nevermind. This guy is a tripped hack.😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

@joshuatempleton9556

3 ай бұрын

i don't know if you are saying that natives had horses before spanish colonization or he was mis saying they were brought etc but north american horses went exstinct well before ancient people thought to domesticate them. dna evidence proved that all horses used by natives came from european stock, historically it was just underestimated how quickly horses became part of native culture being much earlier than realized.

All plants animals were way bigger when we surprisingly had way more carbon in the air.

@iwkaoy8758

4 ай бұрын

It's Moore den that. Day were closer two da original gene pool. If you skell prehistoric bison down two modern bison, day wood still bee larger bee cause of their body features.

@Critical_Stinking

3 ай бұрын

Did a bison write this comment?

@firstname-qq3xp

3 ай бұрын

@@Critical_Stinking if you’re referring to yourself, then yes

That small amount of people are not changing the environment due to lack of fires. When you look at it as part of the entire carbon supply (volcanoes, forest fires, etc.) I cannot see it having enough of an impact.

Really fascinating ❤

50 something million in the North,Central and South America combine and most of them in S America but that somehow is corelated to the bison in North America alone.... And even if you accept that all of them them died during the "Great Dying" which is bs its not " 10% of the world population", China alone was estimated to have around 500 million strong population in the 16th century, the Indian subcontinent had about the same number and thats before counting Europe,Africa and the rest of Asia. I have heard guys with seious amount of alcohol in their bloodstream in a bar sounding more convincing than this guy having a banter about such topics.

I mean everything has decreased in size in response to the changing environment, it was not due to human selection. There was wayyyy to many bison for humans to have such an impact

The earth is a polygon

Interesting.😄

This guy is making it up as he goes. Reminds me of Joe Biden.

All modern animals are dwarfs compared to what they use to be before the flood. Humans were much larger as well.

Lions would cut their numbers.

African elephants are browsers and grazers. the white rhino is the biggest grazer of all the land creatures

Your boy Rinella wrote the best book on tnis subject.

My B.S. alarm started beeping hearing his theory of why there are no more giants, It's like here in Northwestern Pa. where just to our north there are glacier indicators one being a giant moraine running just south of I-90 where a glacier 12,000 years back towered over a mile thick and plowed a 300 foot high bank miles long ,down where I fish along Lake Erie there are boulders with long deep scratch lines where they were dragged along the bottom of a glacier, and all of the sudden mans emissions just melted the ice sheet and now Greta Thunberg , John Kerry and Al Gore are sounding the global alarms. Might as well tune into ABC CBS NBC CNN or MSNBC for better coverage with more experts on the subject

@DesX42S

2 ай бұрын

Congratulations on winning the scarecrow fighting championships.

For all those people saying this guy's an idiot because of his take on campfires, you should reconsider the following: It's not just the heat and carbon dioxide created by camp fires alone, but the broader impacts of those camp fires, like unintended forest fires which have huge burning impacts. Fire occurring naturally in nature is rare. Fire in nature is normally only the result of lightning strikes, which do happen, but usually only in optimally dry conditions conducive to fire. The frequency of forest fires is increased substantially through the artificial creation of fire by people, particularly in conditions where a forest fire would not necessarily occur naturally. Negligent campfires created by tens of millions of people, causes a lot of heat and forest fires which also create heat/carbon dioxide. Then you remove those tens of millions of people (through disease and War), and then the number of both campfires and subsequent forest fires is reduced substantially, causing cooling. It makes sense. He's not saying that this is the only cause either. I'm sure there's other factors like volcanic eruptions and microclimate events that contribute.

Modern cows are descendant from Aurochs, which in antiquity, would kill other Aurochs if they could smell the human scent on them so I heard.

If you’ve never heard Indian stories handed down generation to generation, about the time of Ice Age Glaciers…. This explanation makes sense

He should talk about $5 Indians...

Has there ever been a more numerous and larger species of large mammal that lived alongside man than north american buffalo? Maybe eurasian aurochs or something from africa? Mammoths prolly dont count because theres no way they had populations like bison

I'm confused. Only humans and wolves are effective predators? Where did the short face bear, the saber tooth cat, the American lion and others go?

I recommend watching this video on 1.25x cuz he talks slow af

Little Ice Age caused by solar activity

Quack!

the youtube clips are more interesting that watching the entire podcast

56 million people in the western hemisphere before 1492, where is the evidence for such an estimate? I'm also wondering how the "explorer" knew that people in villages they didn't visit didn't get sick and the ones they did visit were dying within 3 days? Something sounds fishy to me. The woodland bison were different than plains bison and were recorded in VA and MD in just over a hundred years after Columbus' landing in the Bahamas by the first English in the mid-Atlantic region.

Hahaha , what a kook!

Smh from the first sentence I could tell this dude was off his fucking rocker smh

How do he know this ?

I think it's more to do with feed modern bison had no competition so exploded in number more bison less food to sustain bigger frame smaller bodies available grazing went further ruminants needs 2-3% of there body weight of food a day

@iwkaoy8758

4 ай бұрын

It had know thing two dew width food. It's caused buy genetic load. Prehistoric bison are closest two da original create Ted bison. Modern bison are da closest two da original create Ted bison and modern times. Cows and dwarf cows are farthest from da original create Ted bison. Genetic load is caused buy recessive mutate Shawn's. Genetic regression/ Recessive genes cause any moles two bee come less fit over time.

People from this time period understood disease transmission to the extent that everything he says on that is not valid. They may not have realized it in this case because for them Smallpox and such did not wipe out populations, but they definitely understood the concept of contagious disease. For a historian, that is a pretty bad hole in his understanding.

How do humans without modern tech generate enough force to kill beast that big like 🐘?

This guy needs to read abou Smilodon and the American lion if he thinks wolves and humans were the only ones capable of hunting bison.

This guy obviously doesn't even believe his own bullshit.

Yeah no this isn’t correct

"European breath caused mass genocide in the Americas" sounds like a silly statement too... until you understand the context

I really disagree about the time tables Mainstream uses but this discussion is on target. They make up words to fill in the gaps.

No shit bisons in florida

How many people hunted bison, I. North America 8k years ago??? Humans are at fault for dwarf bison?? Wow…

thats right folks, human hunting pressure, those 8000-12000 people just had to kil 30,000,000-45,000,000 animals. I mean those 6,000,000-8,000,000 carnivores were just over powered, manded and out hunted from them humans with no weapons at all....

There is nothing he said that makes any sense

If this is true, couldn't we breed a giant bison then? Their giant structure would still be in their DNA. We do breed some pretty massive long horns.

@iwkaoy8758

4 ай бұрын

Breeding does ant work that way. You Kent up breed any moles. You Kent own Lee down breed while molding dim inn two da shape you won't. Example - If you won't Ted two breed a smaller dog width very large ears, You start width a very large dog width large ears. You down breed da large dogs size,but preserve da ears. Diss is how long haired small dogs are create Ted. You Kent start width a dog width small ears and up breed dim. Da cow ore bison width da largest horns current Lee own earth, is da farthest you Ken breed da horn size. Prehistoric bison genetic regression inn two modern bison and cows,So da gene four doze prehistoric bison are gone four ever. Modern cows and bison features are da remnant of da preserved genes four prehistoric bison,but doze long horns and large body genes are gone four ever.

@OriginalGlorfindel

4 ай бұрын

​@@iwkaoy8758It's ok, my text to talk doesn't comprehend southern either. Try editing for clarity, if you can. I understood the phonetic spelling but not everyone will.

@wyomarine6341

3 ай бұрын

Look up Bison latifrons, the original longhorn!

Geezus Krist, dude, spit it freaking out! Could you possibly take any longer to say something? Are you getting paid by the word? Round and round and round you go…..

an educated guess is still a guess. If you weren't there you are fucking guessing. Sure it's based on science and experience also rationale, but still a fucking guess cause you weren't there

Native Americans purposefully caused brush fires… it wasn’t accidental

I don't believe a word he said. I read an article about 15 yrs. ago the the little ice age was caused by a volcano eruption

Meanwhile nobody says that all of the megafauna of the americas(not all but yk, ones like the wooly mammoth, saber tooth tiger, and these big ass bison) all became extinct during the younger dryas period. I don’t believe us humans had such a huge impact on the environment at that time. Seems much more likely that something like an asteroid or some sort of cosmic event would better explain such events.

Most of this is guessing.

I don’t little fires are the cause of a ice age

Wow..would i like to debate this guy....

I think this I think that I think this I think that and guess what everything I think is wrong and that is because this person is only imagining what he thinks happened and naturally if you imagine it everything you think is correct and could also be very wrong

Time slot is off. The little ice age began according to him, which he's not wrong half a century or a century before The largest pulse of the "great dying". Don't care for the title I wanted to hear about the dwarfing of the bison. Human hunting pressure would not cause that. Which is why he rolls right past it after making the statement.

This blokes talking crap

...Sort of the "denumoua"??? OK bye

Love when joe had "experts" on😂

This guy is so FOS.

The little ice age was probably influenced by a number of factors. Including the lack of South American fires. Not just cook fires. Evidence and recovered art and records show that one of the primary farming methods was burning the forest for new fields. Now imagine that your farming industry is large enough to feed tens of millions. That's a LOT of burning.