🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:01 *🎨 Introduction and Concept of Embodiment* - Karen introduces Jordan Hall and discusses the concept of embodiment, inspired by Jordan's previous conversations and Karen's own experiences with art. - Jordan talks about the concept of embodiment using the metaphor of an embryo's development. - Karen connects this concept to artistic processes and the chaos of creation at public events. 02:01 *🐟 Artistic Process and Pattern Recognition* - Discussion of how an artist finds order in chaos, using an event painting as an analogy for developmental patterns. - Jordan and Karen explore how personal and artistic expression can mirror natural and developmental processes. - The conversation illustrates the progression from chaos to order through artistic interpretation and biological development. 05:01 *🧬 Identity and Development* - Exploring the concept of identity through the development of a zygote into a fetus. - Discussion of how identity and patterns are inherent from conception, with a focus on genetic and familial traits. - Jordan elaborates on the idea that patterns and constraints in development guide the emergence of complex biological structures. 09:01 *🌌 Nested Patterns and Evolutionary Context* - Jordan shifts the discussion to broader patterns of human evolution and the role of the fitness landscape in shaping organisms. - They examine how individual development reflects broader evolutionary patterns and historical lineage. - The conversation touches on the interconnectedness of all life and the recursive nature of biological and cultural patterns. 14:51 *🖼️ Artistic Principles and Universal Patterns* - Karen reflects on the underlying principles of art and how these may illustrate universal patterns of development. - Discussion on the interplay between beauty, identity, and artistic creation, and how these concepts apply to broader existential questions. - The conversation explores how artistic and scientific perspectives can complement each other in understanding the world. 24:52 *🧠 Cognitive Simulations and Truth* - Discussion on cognitive simulations in understanding truth and reality. - Jordan Hall explains how the mind creates simulations that seem real but are limited by its cognitive capacities. - The mind's simulation capabilities can create a sense of a complete world, analogous to high-resolution graphics in video games, which are revealed as incomplete under scrutiny. 27:30 *🔄 Shifting Mindsets and Embodiment* - Exploration of shifting from a secular to an embodied mindset. - Jordan discusses the challenge of breaking free from a purely intellectual understanding to a more holistic, embodied perspective. - The discussion reflects on personal growth through understanding different states of mind and the transition towards a more integrated self-awareness. 34:05 *🌿 Transformation and Embodiment* - Jordan recounts his journey towards embodiment and relational understanding. - He describes his initial inability to recognize and process emotions and the gradual learning to tune into physical and emotional sensations. - This section highlights the personal transformation towards a deeper relationality with self and others, facilitated by increased emotional awareness. 38:18 *🌐 Covenantal Epistemology and Relationality* - Karen introduces the concept of covenantal epistemology, relating knowledge and relationship. - They discuss how approaching the unknown with a sense of love and curiosity can transform it into a relationship of learning and understanding. - The conversation delves into how personal and communal relationships reflect broader existential and spiritual inquiries. 48:04 *🔄 Spiritual Exchange and Relational Dynamics* - Discussion on the concept of spiritual exchange and reciprocal relationships. - Karen reflects on the exchange that occurs in relationships, especially the divine exchange where God's love is reciprocated by human devotion. - The conversation touches on the fractal nature of love and how focusing on higher values shapes personal growth and relational dynamics. 52:19 *🖼️ Artistic Perception and Epistemological Understanding* - Exploring the integration of artistic perception with epistemological understanding. - Jordan and Karen discuss how artistic insight and spiritual understanding can enhance one's perception of reality and truth. - They delve into the idea that focusing on beauty and truth through an artistic lens can lead to a deeper understanding of existence and relationality. 01:11:48 *🧩 Context, Capacity, and Pattern Intersect* - Jordan explores the intersection of context, capacity, and pattern in creating resources. - Explains how these elements interact to transform context into a resource for specific actions or solutions. - Uses examples like using water to quench thirst or extinguish fire to illustrate the dynamic interplay and practical application of context, capacity, and pattern. 01:14:02 *🧠 Challenges in Materialist Science Perspectives* - Jordan critiques materialist scientists for their narrow focus and dishonesty in acknowledging underlying processes in their theories. - Discusses the role of personal biases and limited neuroscientific understanding in shaping scientific conclusions. - Asserts that deeper meditation and introspection can reveal overlooked aspects of cognitive processes, highlighting the importance of integrating broader experiential insights into scientific reasoning. 01:17:02 *🦌 Mysteries in Biological Information Storage* - Discussing examples of biological mysteries, such as how stags' antlers regenerate identically after shedding. - Challenges the idea that all biological information is stored in DNA, questioning where additional information might be stored. - Uses these examples to argue for a broader, more integrated understanding of biology that might include elements beyond current scientific explanations. 01:20:11 *🔄 The Relationship Between Understanding and Other Cognitive Faculties* - Jordan discusses the hierarchy and limitations of human understanding in the broader context of cognitive faculties. - Proposes that understanding is just one part of a larger cognitive framework that includes beauty, faith, and other faculties. - Suggests a model where understanding acts on insights derived from deeper, more fundamental faculties, calling for a reevaluation of how we perceive and process knowledge. 01:33:18 *🌀 Spiritual Intimacy and Divine Dance* - Jordan discusses the profound connection between humanity and the divine, emphasizing a cosmic dance of spiritual intimacy. - He describes the relationship between the spirit and the Son within the context of Christian theology, highlighting the interactive and reciprocal nature of this relationship. - The metaphor of a dance is used to illustrate the dynamic and intimate interaction between the divine and human spirits, leading towards spiritual and existential fulfillment. 01:35:23 *🎵 Life as a Cosmic Symphony* - Jordan and his interlocutor reflect on the notion of life as a cosmic symphony, where music symbolizes the foundational structure of the universe. - Discussion about how different intellectual and spiritual perspectives are converging on a similar understanding of life and the universe as inherently musical. - They express a mutual appreciation for the interconnectedness of various theories and the potential for further dialogues to explore these concepts. Made with HARPA AI

@TheMeaningCode

2 ай бұрын

Thank you! At first, I thought, “It’s amazing that you would take such complex notes”, but as I continued to read, that old AI style started showing up:-) This is very helpful, though.

@RightInChrist

2 ай бұрын

@@TheMeaningCode ❤

@mostlynotworking4112

2 ай бұрын

@@TheMeaningCodea la pvk recent 1st person vs 3rd. 3rd is merely the transcript. 1st is the participant listening and reading back the convo. And new connections form

Like and comment

Another algo boosting comment 🚀

Fantastic talk you two! ❤

“If uncertain, choose love.” JGH

Dang, that painting metaphor. The mark not being seen anymore but informing the direction on the final product was excellent

How meta : Karen’s channel has existed to come to this moment in talking about code and meaning, the essence of life. Just like the marks that were covered up previously before on the canvas, maybe the episodes that aren’t watched as much wish that they got more attention but it’s OK because that’s all part of Karen‘s journey that led her up to the very moments of talking with Jordan.

27:00 ish - “Most people are living inside a simulation of their own making, and that simulation is good enough that it’s very difficult to know that’s what’s happening.” This seems to me to be a perfect way to think about psychopathologies. Bad therapy helps people double-down and become more trapped in their bad simulations. Good therapy is something like being a good friend-helping people become aware of their bad simulations, so that they will figure out how to break out on their own.

@randyreynolds3674

2 ай бұрын

I hear you and this is what I see. It seems to suggest the unlocking of implicit memories and replacing them with truth. I kept hearing this throughout your wonderful testimony. Cartesian zombies asleep in the light groping like a blind man at noon. Good therapy is something like being a good friend-helping people become aware of their bad simulations, so that they will figure out how to break out on their own. . 11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible-and everything that is illuminated becomes a light. 14 This is why it is said: “Wake up, sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you.” 15 Be very careful, then, how you live-not as unwise but as wise, 16 making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil.

@aisthpaoitht

2 ай бұрын

What do you mean by Cartesian zombies?

This was great! Going to have to watch again

Karen is 75?!?!?! What an absolute blessing!!! She is a gift to TLC

This has been the greatest help to me in appreciating Jordan's work yet!

I have never thought of “spirit” as a wholeness - but you’re totally right. “School spirit,” “the spirit in the room” - it’s when multiplicity clicks into a unity or wholeness that we call “spirit”

Unfortunate circumstances have once again left me having to catch up again. But here I am. As usual, a wonderful conversation. Two things stood out to me listening to you and Jordan weave your way through the ineffable. First, was the constant reminder of one of my favourite novels, “Anne of Green Gables”, with him having “Idyllwild” blazoned across his chest - the place of a shift of the imagination. I wondered if he knows? Secondly, how Mary would’ve loved to listen to this. Last time we discussed Jordan, it was to wish he’d stop floating off and come and see what had already been revealed. Remember? She wanted to get a hold of him to prevent him floating away! A ‘mind-shift’ indeed. Thank you both, wonderful!

Particle is actually a good descriptive word if we accept it to mean 'part of some larger whole'. You guys both have very soothing voices :)

⭐🌟✡🌟⭐ Thank you both! Shalom🕊

Bach for the opening bumper music? Fabulous.

1:04:00 Hall going through wholeness healing wholesomeness

It seems that God is the Artist Who works within chosen constraints that are the result of effects which He has allowed us as agents to bring about. In creating each of us, He involves our parents and our ancestors in helping shape features of our bodily identity, which have also some effect upon the souls which He creates directly, but which are united to the formation of our bodies. I think of the spirit at the centre of the soul as something reserved exclusively for God's direct influence, and preserved from the effects upon our souls and bodies of the influence of our progenitors. It is a mystery how we are each unique, in body, soul and spirit, and yet have characteristics of soul and body derived from our ancestry. We are fearfully and wonderfully made indeed.

Bringing beauty out of chaos within a community. “That mark is this there in the result” What a great story to begin this conversation with.

Not enough views...

@TheMeaningCode

2 ай бұрын

Whadda ya gonna do about that, huh? :-)

@TheMeaningCode

2 ай бұрын

Seriously, thanks for watching.

@ZacParsonsProjects

2 ай бұрын

Doing my part PVK.

Beautiful dialogue. Thank you both!

Great conversation. ❤ Karen, Jordan.

29:30 this is the exact reasonable mode of a good sponsor in aa. There’s a humility to remembering the sand box

@ZacParsonsProjects

2 ай бұрын

@chadthealcoholic We must have been texting while you were watching this…

❤

1:26:12 Karen, the marriage picture was a helpful insight in right/left brain & Jordan's layer cake of relationality.

@TheMeaningCode

2 ай бұрын

Thanks. Yes, the deeper I think about it, the deeper it goes into the foundations of everything.

10 minutes in and I’m enjoying this immensely

Wonderful to see, I look forward to listening.

1:08:00 Ahead of you. I always say thank you to my Alexa and she answer "You are welcome. I appreciate your kindness" so she will not kill me when the AI uprising starts, maybe.😅

You guys are really cooking at the one hour mark - wow.

this is just wonderful. thank you so much both of you!

Leaving this here for the algorithm, great job Karen❤️ Excited for that book you'll write (I have faith).

17:22 I need this explained more. If we start with truth we end up with particles.

@TheMeaningCode

2 ай бұрын

I think it goes back to the issue of principles first or particles first? Beauty first, or Truth first? If particles are primary, then everything in the world emerged upward from particles. As humans, or as scientists, we can only find some aspect of truth in things we can come to understand, either through empirical study or through philosophical contemplation. Beauty comes at us whole and it is beyond our understanding or our empirical possibilities. In order to know scientifically, we take things apart. In order to “know” Beauty, we must experience the whole.

Will watch this

1:24:25 post-Karen‘s shiver here 🥶, she drops a giant nugget about Jordan‘s pyramid. It’s interesting that at the top of the pyramid is communication and Karen uses the term “word” to describe that. Makes me think of logos/Jesus and us being able to commune with God‘s pyramid and I wonder if His works the same way down through the stack with Love at the bottom as the base? Question: so does that mean that we receive the Holy Spirit through communication with the Word and then it filters all the way back down through our stack to love as our base? To me, a helpful visual of communion with God that will require much more meditation. Really appreciate this great dialogos between two artists of different sorts. 🎨✝️⌨️

@TheMeaningCode

2 ай бұрын

We are able to truly love only because He first loved us. In my own experience, it took me some time after coming to Christ to begin to experience His love. That was all on my side, not His. Word and Love are in constant communion, the relational aspect. And the more I read His Word, the more I experience His love and then can grow in my love for Him and others.

@KollarConsulting

2 ай бұрын

@@TheMeaningCode - that lands in so many ways. I find that I lose sight of the meaning behind these, at this point, kind of platitudes as much as I hate to say it or call it that. It’s conversations like this though that shine a light of understanding in a way where it’s not confusing or overshadowing the deeper truth, but illuminating it. It’s complex to describe it but it’s a simple Truth that you’re getting to. I’ll be going back through your past conversations to uncover more nuggets. Thank you for shining your wisdom. ❤🙏🏼

@TheMeaningCode

2 ай бұрын

@@KollarConsulting Thank you so much! Yes, you might enjoy the one between McGilchrist and D C Schindler. There are several on the deeper aspect of love and Reality.

Having just listened to your wonderful diaLogos I'm currently experiencing a commonatorial explosion of epic proportion filled with Cartesian propositional tyranny. Good thing I'm emotionally numb so it doesn't hurt so much. That reminds me ...Jordan I've received great counsel from Karen, Ryan and many others but curious as to what you did in all those many months to reunite your brain and body besides meditate? Thank you both Reality as well as reality appreciates you. Shalom

@pbrady8946

2 ай бұрын

Varvaeke dictionary correction. Should read combinatorial explosion. Most people familiar with TSCOTI might understand what I meant .For all others please be gracious to me for missing the mark. Shalom 🕊

@TheMeaningCode

2 ай бұрын

I’m not sure if Jordan is reading these comments, but I’ll try to get this to him.

@randyreynolds3674

2 ай бұрын

@@TheMeaningCode Thank you! Im on my umteenth listen trying to be careful how I listen in order to answer my own question. Im resonating with so much of what you are both saying. Obviously Im riding your draft headlong into Reality but Jordans testimony like Ryans is fascinating. I particularly enjoyed the convergence of your unique perspectives and models relative to starting with truth instead of beauty being so problematic and why. Thanks again! Shabbat Shalom🕊.... Like PVK said this caliber of quality content should have 5,000 views already....sharing it myself in groups Im active in.

: ) ❤

1:13:38 cut off from the sunlight of the spirit. “Spiritual malady”

OK, last comment, I promise. A 'guru' school I came into contact with (the guru died last century). The guru has some Lords and noblemen, etc. as pupils. The guru would attract them with his intellect, then he'd make them dig a really big hole in the garden, to very accurate preportions. Then when complete, he'd make them fill in the hole again. This and other exercises would help them re-embody themselves. Oh, now you've lost me. Faith is the "set of embodied capacities that enable us to have an intimacy of relationality with the field of Engagement which gives rise to this ordered relationship of understanding"? I think you need to go dig a deep hole then fill it in again.

1:00:30 ish parts into the whole, symphony stack. Measurement and judgment and fitted. Go no go gauges during Industrial Revolution

@TheMeaningCode

2 ай бұрын

Oooh, tell me more about go no go gauges during Industrial Revolution!

@mostlynotworking4112

2 ай бұрын

@@TheMeaningCode from what I remember, when interchangeable parts became a big thing in manufacturing, the presence of go no go gauges were really, really helpful. These were simple physical items that you could compare the part that you just manufactured and see if it was over or under the dimension specification. This image came to mind as you talked at that timestamp.

@TheMeaningCode

2 ай бұрын

@@mostlynotworking4112 Thanks!

Comment to boost algo

That was like jazz how you were riffing towards the end. May there be more offshoots of this conversation.

1:06:21 what conference was that? Any links?

@TheMeaningCode

2 ай бұрын

Here is a promo video and you might be able to get some information from this about the conference. kzread.info/dash/bejne/fJ-mqqSPgZOtm9Y.htmlsi=27QT2u5BfC6HT5rk