Hey guys. I know its been a bit since the video released and I am currently working on my timeline video that will cover everything as a whole and answer a lot of questions. One thing I didn't mention that I should've is the chip inserted by Murphy is the soulkiller program. I mention it in my second video but failed to here. Thank you all for the support.

@cmdrantezscar3368

Жыл бұрын

if this is true, what you said in the vid, then how did Arasaka get Johnny's engram, and later V?

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

@@cmdrantezscar3368 Later down the line when wanting to get rid of any loose ends, Arasaka tracks down their undetonated Nuke. However they find Silverhands body instead since he was the one kept in the nuke crate and transported to New Mexico in it. While the real nuke was discarded.

@cmdrantezscar3368

Жыл бұрын

@@LayedBackGamers thanks for the answer! then i can wonder, why was Silverhands body even kept around? why not bury him? hes dead. like. and no wonder his memories are fucked up after rotting in a box for how long now?

@DonUschlonTheManiac

Жыл бұрын

First, thank you for this content. It's still wondrous, how the world of cyberpunk still changes, even years after the release of 2077. Have you ever considered, that Mike Pondsmith took the chance of telling just another story through the memories of Silverhand for 2077? If you leave the idea, that everything in this world has to be out of the same world for consistencies sake, you'll get a new wiev towards it.

@MastemaJack

Жыл бұрын

I think when they signed Keanu they couldn't afford another person to play Morgan Blackhand.

I like the idea how Johnny Silverhand, didn't purposely lie to V with the memories. I think he wanted to feel he was the one brave enough to stand up to Arasaka, though I do think his memories are epic and that the group blowing up AHQ was right because no one should have that power to rip the soul out of a person and put it on a database to edit or make themselves immortal. I did the Arasaka ending recently and it made me realise how right Johnny was about wanting Arasaka destroyed

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

absolutely. Arasaka deserves to be destroyed and despite people accusing Johnny of being a bad person because of the amount of innocents killed, that was never the plan. The plan was always for the bomb to reach the lower floors so the reinforced building absorbed the blast. Johnny was right every step of the way. It was definitely preem playing through the memories no matter what.

@happyninja42

Жыл бұрын

@@LayedBackGamers Well Johnny IS/WAS a bad person, that's not an accusation, that's a fact. Even in his own, highly edited for television, rose-tinted memories of his own actions, he's a raging asshole and narcissist, who shit on and insulted everyone around him. When he's the ghost in your head he instantly tries to kill you, insults V at every opportunity, and insults and degrades every resident of Night City that you encounter. Not saying his opinion on the corporations is wrong, but that doesn't absolve him of being a complete douchenozzle of a chucklefuck human being.

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

@@happyninja42 You got everything right. He’s a certified asshole and doesn’t even see it. He would do anything for his own self gain, Including raiding Arasaka with a load of innocents to try to save Alt.

@preferredpronoun3689

Жыл бұрын

The technology exists, it won't go away. Arasaka, Militech or whomever will start digitalising themselves eventually. Can only hope they make a business out of it so anyone can give it a go. Although maybe it doesn't work, maybe it was all a hyped up fad like cryogenic freezing and storage.

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

@@preferredpronoun3689 currently they are just kinda killing people. There’s no promise in the future it will work so they’re kinda just data collecting. Kind of scary and only benefits those who want to erase their own child.

Cyberpunk Fanbase: Do you really believe your own hype that much? Johnny Silverhand: I AM THE HYPE!

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

Silverhand: I single-handedly stormed Arasaka tower and detonated a nuke and survived the blast. I also regenerate so fast that Wolverine would blush.

@nicholaspaynter3581

Жыл бұрын

Vegeta: KILL HIM, KILL HIM NOW

@RaveDriver88

Жыл бұрын

DBZ Abridged reference eh?

@misfitsatanas5756

Жыл бұрын

HES OVER 9000!!

@JustAFatherlyNerd

Жыл бұрын

I heard this in Abridged Vegeta's voice

Love how Alt told us that Johnny's memories were lying to him, everything falls in to place It'd be so cool if the upcoming expansion featured Morgan blackhand lore and V finding out the truth somehow

@ChildofWar2

Жыл бұрын

They won't since the original author (forgot his name) told CDPR not use him since he had plans for Morgan's story to develop. CDPR might just have to retcon Morgan to some extent and then throw nuggets in like the one with alt saying the dreams are lies.

@TheGooseGroup

Жыл бұрын

@@ChildofWar2 Doesn't CDPR own the Copyrights for Cyberpunk? i think their allowed to use Morgan Blackhand

@ChildofWar2

Жыл бұрын

@@TheGooseGroup not really as far as I understand it, Mike Pondsmith still holds all rights to the IP I think. But nevertheless he asked them not to use anything with Morgan cause he had plans for him and I'm taking it that CDPR atleast did the respectfull thing and went along with said request even if they own the copyright.

@TheGooseGroup

Жыл бұрын

@@ChildofWar2 ok did some research and they both own the IP. there is more to it but thats the Quick Version

@T0asty-

Жыл бұрын

@@ChildofWar2 Mike Pondsmith. :)

Johnny is definitely a narcissist and has such an inflated ego so him remembering the events wrong makes a ton of sense. The game even says his recollections are biased and don’t fully represent the truth when first meeting with Alt.

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

I remember that dialogue actually. It’s also interesting seeing as the creator of soulkiller is saying it. Despite it not being the original Alt, it must mean something that practically soulkiller itself is saying Johnnys memories aren’t reliable.

@frank_woods

Жыл бұрын

@@LayedBackGamerssee the one thing that’s really questionable is that in one of the endings Rogue makes a call back to the Night City Holocaust when she screams “not this time” when Johnny is about to fall out of the AV and she catches him since the last time back on Arasaka Tower he jumped on to the AV and then Smasher shot him off

@juanpabloflores8179

Жыл бұрын

Besides being a narcissist, don't forget that the biochip suffers some damage during the heist with Jackie, and the data got corrupted in some way.

@SizemoreMusic

Жыл бұрын

@@frank_woodsIt’s a small detail, but it blows the theory apart. Plus, Johnny had to make it to Soburo (probably spelling it wrong) in order for them to make a construct of his consciousness. It’s a really cool theory, and obviously to some extent, SOME of his memories are biased (which is true for all of us) but people also make one crucial mistake when playing with this theory. They trust Alt, and based on my interactions with her through 10-15 playthrough at this point … idk if Alt can be trusted. She’s a construct turned rogue AI that’s literally trying to become a god.

@zeropolicy7456

Жыл бұрын

I just with the game clarified what actually happened, if not for V, for the players at least. I feel like they put in so much effort into handcrafting the world and environments, that they ultimately ran out of time to fully flesh-out the story and gameplay elements. It sucks too, because there's a lot of potential. Hell, the best side gig in the game, the one about the assassination of Mayor Rhyne and the mind control tech, is literally a better plot than the main game. Mr. Blue Eyes is such an enigmatic figure, and the cloaked AV at the end of the quest is awesome. I wanted more stories like that in the game. From what I've heard, the whole concept of Johnny Silverhand was a late addition to the story, and that the original plot was mostly written before CDPR got Keanu onboard the project. So there had to be extensive rewrites to major plot points and honestly? It shows. Which sucks, because the characters themselves are pretty great. V is an excellent protag. Judy, Panam, and Kerry are all great LI's (sorry River, you're milktoast by comparison). But the story they're all set in isn't bad, but it's definitely undeserving of such well crafted personalities.

God V taking on Arasaka in the Don't Fear The Reaper ending is alot more insane since we think Johnny destroyed Arasaka once and thinking he's a badass but finding out that Johnny was never that important or even on Arasaka's radar and it really makes more sense why Adam Smasher is confused when you say "Johnny Silverhand sends his regards."

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. When I first played through the game, I was extremely confused to reach the ending and have Smasher give zero shits to that statement.

@skibadeeskibadanger6641

Жыл бұрын

@@LayedBackGamers You are overthinking it. CD Project Red simply merged two characters together in order to streamline the narrative and give Reeves the big role. Introducing Blackhand would muddy the waters and potentially ruin an already struggling game. So most of the stuff Johnny says is probably true - except for the part where he is The Hero. Tabletop sources are often retconned or ignored. For example, in Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines you play as a strong vampire of roughly 8-9 generation and rise in power as the game progresses. According to the tabletop rules, it should not be possible. This fact pushed the fans to speculate about Cain personally buffing the player character but the truth is likely much more simple - nobody would want to play as a stunted "thinblood", so devs changed the canon. As for Smasher... of course he would be confused when a random punk - too young to remember 2023 - suddenly mentions Johnny of all people. V's unique "medical condition" is not something Adam knows about and he doesn't have enough time to connect the dots.

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

@@skibadeeskibadanger6641 Blackhand is mentioned in game several times and still having rumored sightings exactly like the TTRPG

@skibadeeskibadanger6641

Жыл бұрын

@@LayedBackGamers That's right. Blackhand is MENTIONED. Casually. In an off-hand manner. He is not playing any significant role in the videogame narrative. It's like a cameo in the Marvel movie - somewhat pleasant for the fans to see but ultimately meaningless. I guess we should wait for the Phantom Liberty and see if there is something more substantial than Johnny's war tales. The whole "unreliable narrator" thing is pointless when you don't have the alternative version of the story. Tabletop lore is not a good source in this case because in the books Silverhand even looks differently. Not to mention that some of the Pondsmith's explanations make no goddamn sense.

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

@@skibadeeskibadanger6641 They’re not always meant to make sense since he doesn’t like to reveal everything. However he did very clearly state 2077 is connected and on the same timeline as the tabletops

i did always find it weird that one moment, johnny is laying on the ground after the door explosion, moments before smasher shoots him, then the next moment, he’s on the roof, about to escape in the bird. also, does this mean that johnny’s body IS out there somewhere? still preserved? which means, maybe V can ACTUALLY be saved? also, how does arasaka end up with his engram in the game?

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

I do discuss what happened to his body in my new video which might help a bit more. But the breakdown is that basically his Body is transported by a group of Edgerunners to New Mexico while being preserved in a nuke crate. Near the end of the story, Samantha Stevens tells her friend Angel that she has cancer from the HQ bombing. I believe that after her death, Smasher at some point came into possession of Silverhands belongings as well as Arasaka stealing Johnnys chip and possibly his body. There’s a huge time gap between the transport of his body and 2077. So a Lot could’ve happened.

@user-gs9qy8yn7n

Жыл бұрын

@@LayedBackGamers sadge. someone probably snitched for some eddies and then died for it.

@torakka2ow640

Жыл бұрын

Actually in one of the side quests you visit Johnny's grave. Though we don't know for sure if his body is in there. Arasaka could have the body stored somewhere. I just don't know why they would do that. Though I don't know why they used soulkiller on him either. Was he just a test subject or did they intend to use his engram for something?

@user-gs9qy8yn7n

Жыл бұрын

@@torakka2ow640 probably a test subject and to get rid of a thorn in their side. but i don’t see a reason for them to keep the body either, as much as i wish they would have.

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

@@torakka2ow640 They most likely wanted his soulkiller chip from his body. I didn’t dive into it much in this video but the chip Murphy inserts into Silverhand is a soulkiller program written by Alt. They needed his engram to further develop their own soulkiller.

Makes sense as to why Adam didn't know what V was talking about when they mentioned johnny during their last confrontation

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

That always threw me off before I attempted to look into it. If Silverhand and Smasher had this huge confrontation and were truly rivals, he would’ve reacted a bit differently. I think Silverhand is more of a joke to Smasher that he forgot about.

@Blazer-bn9ev

Жыл бұрын

@@LayedBackGamers So this means Silverhand and David from the Edgerunners anime are very similar; both believed themselves to be unique, yet both ended up being crushed by the City (Smasher, more appropriately). Both of them considered themselves more involved and important while Smasher doesn't even remember their 'feats'.

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

@@Blazer-bn9ev Yep, they both went in headfirst to attack Arasaka Hq and both got caught off guard by Smasher. It’s kind of funny seeing as David actually put up a better fight technically. It won’t happen but if David had become an engram, it might even be the same story of his memories being messed with by both soulkiller and his cyberpsychosis.

@user-gs9qy8yn7n

Жыл бұрын

i don’t remember that conversation. what does he actually say to u?

@user-gs9qy8yn7n

Жыл бұрын

i don’t remember that conversation. what does he actually say to u?

Soulkiller could only put 70ish% of someone's psyche on an engram. I'm sure his engram was also tampered with in mikoshi so his memories are not completely correct.

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

There’s definitely a lot of gaps in the flashbacks despite his death technically being his most recent memory. I believe it was tampered with as well.

@midnightblue1975

Жыл бұрын

Exactly ! Johnny didn’t even see Blackhand v Smasher on the roof before he died, so there’s that too. That’s knowledge from after his death - so I don’t think it’s necessarily because he’s a narcissist, its just that narcissism is what stitches his engram together and fills in the gaps. Also Johnny got soulkilled after his death - see what state poor Jackie was in after a 2077 version of soulkiller tried to upload him. God knows what state Alt was in after she died and was violently disconnected. Arasaka would have glued JS back together partly based on what they knew.

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

@@midnightblue1975 That’s definitely true. Silverhand isn’t 100% of what he could be. Even if he technically was beforehand, Arasaka experimented on his engram too heavily to not cause some sort of damage. While reading through one of the tabletop stories, Murphy claimed she scattered multiple pieces of Alt throughout the net to be hopefully recovered at a later time. I might need to get into that story deeper as it could have major implications in the future once we meet Murphy.

@meateaw

Жыл бұрын

@@LayedBackGamers It could be that saburo arasaka DID interrogate him, but not him the body, but him the engram. His memories of the interrogation may actually not be false in entirity. I love the whole idea so much.

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

@@meateaw That's actually a great idea. That producing a false interrogation memory with his engram would be their way of probing the engram for information. So they would obviously cut before his death to add a false memory of him being captured in order to have a proper reason for him being in interrogation. I think that idea is really onto something!

I honestly hope this gets mentioned in Phantom Liberty, with Johnny actually having something of an identity crisis, both from his own disillusionment and from being "code on a chip". I also hope we get to find out how Arasaka then got a hold of Johnny's engram, since they clearly didn't do it themselves I know it happened when Murphy slotted what I presume was a relic chip into him as he was dying; what I'm wondering is how Sala got to his corpses and the child afterwards

@brancolt_

9 ай бұрын

Through Rogue, I'd guess.

When you invade Arasaka tower with Rogue, while letting Johnny take control, Adam Smasher DOES recognize Johnny and states: "Silverhand? How is this even possible?" but when you play as V and say "Johnny Silverhand sends his regards" Smasher replies: "Are you f***ing with me now?" It makes me wonder if Johnny was imagining Smasher's dialogue during that encounter, and in reality Smasher is totally confused.

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

I agree with you that it’s a possibility. When I played through all the endings it always stuck with me weird that in Silverhands ending he recognizes the name yet as V he doesn’t.

@dg4545

10 ай бұрын

He probably thought V was full of shit.

Being killed is probably very confusing. Is it possible some of Johnny's memories (the interrogation, the assistant who was pissed about her... husband?) come from conversations that may have happened in the net? The personality chips were kind of created to let you speak to the dead after all. He might have been interrogated (and maybe even tortured) for years after his death. Even if he wasn't seen as important, he might've been viewed as a valid access to Blackhand. I'm assuming Spider's last little chip insert was how his psyche got wrapped up in Soulkiller. Then you add in our tendency to rewrite our own memories and the vast stretch of time he spent between being dead and V getting shot in the head. He probably has no idea that's not how things happened.

I've seen videos and reddit commentary about the "errors" in arasaka logos and other things in the silverhand flashback scenes. Things that have to be overt and intentional because they are not scrambled in any "present day" scenes. This leads me to believe that Johnny's memory engram is at least partially corrupted. He's a raging narcissist but if the relic and soulkiller scramble you, as advertised, there's little wonder he'd replace the gaps with self affirming fictions. Some of what Johnny does is narcism but the rest is engram corruption due to the tech not being perfect. If you take the Devil ending, you give Arasaka what they need to get one step closer to perfecting the tech.

As just a player of the game it always appeared very strange to me that in his memory Johnny was so powerful and skilled and cool with his weapons. Its as if he is a one man army, killing with every shot. Always found that strange.

I read the background in Cyberpunk Red as well. Johnny was cut in half by an automatic shotgun. He would be hamburger in seconds. In other words, he is dead before he drips off the ceiling (hits the floor). Funny thing is the game does slightly acknowledge it. Corpo V says "...the ghost of the man cut into 2..." So, there is no way to even make him into an engram, let alone being carried out, by anyone. Unless they just took the largest chunk that contained the head.

@trutwhut6550

Жыл бұрын

It was probably spider who chipped him

@Gearparadummies

Жыл бұрын

@@trutwhut6550 It was Alt. Check "Firestorm: Shockwave" and "CyberGeneration"

@trutwhut6550

Жыл бұрын

@@Gearparadummies yeah ik it wasn't her who wrote the code, but that's why it worked she chipped him in like 5-10 seconds

@cynicalmemester1694

Жыл бұрын

@@Gearparadummies I'm pretty sure Cybergeneration isn't canon and it's just a what if type spin off.

@Gearparadummies

Жыл бұрын

@@cynicalmemester1694 Even so, read Firestorm"Shockwave", particularly the segment "24 hours after the fall of the tower". It's there.

I really like all the theories about engram copying issues, unreliable narrative, narcissism. And I think that might be what they were going for. However, reports say that Keanu wanted silver hand to have a bigger role than he originally did. Whatever that means. So to me, it’s hard to tell if it’s the aforementioned or deliberate retcon due to them landing an a list celebrity.

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

I bet that at least part of the reason they chose to have Silverhand corrupted to this point was to make more use of Keanu. Honestly it was the best way of incorporating fun flashbacks without completely ruining canon.

@damedusa5107

5 ай бұрын

@@LayedBackGamerswitcher 3 changes the story frequently m canon, why not this game? Who’s to say what the truth is in the game world.

@LayedBackGamers

5 ай бұрын

@@damedusa5107 Because it was established between the author of Witcher and CDPR that they would be separate canonically. With 2077 though, CDPR and Pondsmith agreed to make it all connect and be one coherent timeline.

@damedusa5107

5 ай бұрын

@@LayedBackGamers fair point

Great video! Keep making Cyberpunk Lore analasys and video essays! i see great success coming your way!

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

Thank you my friend. I really appreciate you saying that it means a lot to me!

I think his presented memories represent his main emotions and drives, at the expense of reality. They leave out Blackhand and Smasher's rivalry because Johnny doesn't have a skin in that game, they do include the nuke and him setting it off because Johnny does own wanting to nuke Arasaka tower -- who pulls the trigger is not really important, he's part of the team so it's also his nuke. Memories gloss over the collateral damage because Johnny never wanted to hit bystanders -- and, frankly, hardly could have known, any knowledge of that would come from V. Him being carted to hospital and meeting Arasaka is a near death hallucination, his mind making sense of what's happening while getting uploaded while cut in half. So the fragmentation isn't really about his narcissism, or data corruption, the engram representing personality much more than reality. If you want mere reality scroll a BD.

@HaterFromAbove9

Жыл бұрын

My question Is how did he even become an Ingram in the first place if arasaka never actually had his body

@aoeuable

Жыл бұрын

@@HaterFromAbove9 Arasaka techs got to him after Spider left but before the nuke went off. He was, after all, lying in a puddle of blood in Arasaka tower.

@trutwhut6550

Жыл бұрын

@@aoeuable also spider might've uploaded him onto the shard instead, she's saying sorry and was trying to pick him up like alt.

@WiseOwl_1408

Жыл бұрын

Hardly could have known blowing it up would cause collateral damage? What a silly comment

@aoeuable

Жыл бұрын

@@WiseOwl_1408 The man's a rock singer, not a demolitions expert. He certainly did not know about the details of the fallout as he was dead on the floor before the bomb went off. In any case my whole point is that the memories represent his personality, and asshole as he might be being a mass murderer isn't part of his drives and motivations.

I think this is a really good analysis of some of the deeper portions of the cyberpunk 2077 iceberg. Just a few more points to reinforce your idea: With the Alt Cunningham reveal, we see a lot of the actual effects of soul killer. Alt is no longer Alt in the psyche, she is basically just some advanced AI Consciousness that takes on the visage of Alt. She seems detached from the personality of alt, though remembers defining moments (specifically pre death emotions) related to Johnny. While speaking with Anders Hellman, He really drives home that Soulkiller creates an engram of a persons consciousness. He doesn't seem to buy into the idea of having Johnny's soul inside of v. Nonetheless he believes the legitimacy of V's condition, He simply finds more realism in turning toward technology. He also mentions that Soulkiller was designed to be implanted into a "blank" so to speak. Likely in a manufactured mechanical body. Before both V's implant, and Johnny's death, they are both in really adrenaline fueled crap hit the fan situations. They are acting in extremes due to the nature of their circumstance. It would make sense that while soulkiller is creating a personality engram it tends to emulate the current state of the persons personality. This would partially explain Johnny's allusioned world views. Both receive the implant in a critical, Life or death scenario. The difference is that Johnny died and V lived. This idea is reinforced by Alt's fragmented personality. To reinforce the idea of Johnny also having a fragmented personality; During the rogue romance quest, she seems to try to be open to the idea of it really being Johnny. Things go okay at first, after reminiscing the old days. Once things get serious though, Johnny can't seem to provide rogue with any real answers to deeper questions. It ends with rogue leaving after a few remarks like "this just isn't right" and "Johnny... You died". The entire get together just ended up being Johnny finally taking her to the movies, and making risky advances in Rockstar fashion. Throughout the playthrough, V becomes more reckless and akin to the classic rpg protagonist. A once rational person, regularly weighing consequences and checking their best friend before dangerous situations. After the soul killer implant, V becomes much more driven and loses their regard to safety. It could be argued that V has much less to lose, and that most of their reckless action is acted upon the understanding that they are slowly dying. This is the beginning of V's downfall. Through the game, the Afterlife is used to build up the idea of legacy in death. As time goes on, V gets more used to the idea of legacy in death. Slowly V is reduced to little more than an Adam smasher type figure, Someone who cheated death and has encompassed a spirit of vengeance. This combined with the idea that the soul killer creates a personality engram, often flawed with extremes, Really sets V's implant as their first death. All in all, I agree that Johnny didn't mean to lie or misguide V. I think it is more likely that Johnny just isn't Johnny anymore. Nothing more than a rogue AI created in the Johnny Silverhand visage. I think this AI effectively emulated Johnny in the best way it knew how to, with its only reference material being Johnny's extreme Rockstar death. I also believe that it believes it is Johnny, as that is what it was designed to do. After meeting with Alt who wanted to bring Johnny to cyberspace with her, and linking with the mikoshi access point, Johnny's engram would no longer be in the soul killer chip. This basically leaves V in a footrace with an unavoidable death. I think it likely that V is doomed to the same fate as Johnny; having their soul killed and their engram implanted into a chip.

Great analysis! For me, personally, I believe Johnny suffers from a rare memory disorder known as Korsakoff Syndrome. Basically what it does is it disrupts your brain's ability to maintain true memories, which then prompts it to rewrite your lost memories for you (I.e. it rationalises your perceptions of reality). In the case of Johnny, it's likely his memories were rewritten with what he wanted to believe, like you said yourself in your video. Korsakoff Syndrome is something that's actually very common in alcoholics too, so I think it'd make perfect sense if Johnny was actually diagnosed with this.

@IvanTre

Жыл бұрын

It makes no sense though. If he hasn't been subjected to the soulkiller device that destructively scans someone'đ personality, he'd never have been preserved in Arasaka's Mikoshi program. So, it's a partial retcon. But I mean that his memory is unreliable and false is pretty clear when you see Adam Smasher defeating him twice - first in the office, second time on the roof. Or maybe, they gave him some memories from Blackhand for some weird reason.

@bendyinkdemon3094

Жыл бұрын

@@IvanTre the video mentioned the Netrunner putting a shard into Johnny’s skull as he died could that data shard have been found and used for his Engram?

@IvanTre

Жыл бұрын

@@bendyinkdemon3094 shards are just data transfer devices. For something like that to have been a possiblity would mean someone had something like Relic technology in 2023.

@bendyinkdemon3094

Жыл бұрын

@@IvanTre well they probably took the data Shard Spider Murphy put in Johnnys head or did they use both his body and the shard after the got his body back?

The line Smasher says right before finishing "Johnny" on the rooftop about being the one to finally take him down makes a lot more sense when you read the books and realize Morgan Blackhand was Smasher's arch nemesis.

@SusCalvin

Жыл бұрын

Smasher is fun in 2020. The man can't understand why Morgan Blackhand is ranked as the top solo when all he does is complete his missions without bloodbaths. The man is pretty far gone, other humans are just yapping distractions to him, either bosses or tools or targets.

I think while the inflated ego is a part of the disillusioned memories, that him being trapped in an echo chamber of anger and hatred for 50 years caused him to believe things happened a certain way.

Let me know what you think of what actually occurred during the AHQ Bombing. As well as your thoughts on why Silverhands memories seem to be so inaccurate. Could his engram have been tampered with? Or even combined with Blackhands...Let me know.

This actually puts a whole new look on the story and Johnny as a character, Its interesting to know it was more of Morgan who did the fighting because realistically Johnny isn't surviving that fight. It's also nice to know Johnny was probably buried and there's more added about how you get his car and malorian arms. Cyberpunk is a very in depth story tbh and its crazy how much of it is actually over looked, I think Johnny did a bit of both lying and being confused on what actually happened because your brain practically scrambles when you get shot. But this being the case would explain why even he seems confused on everything that actually happens along with his unyielding rage.

You unraveled the the knot that was my mind after playing the attack in the game. I knew it didn’t play out like that and it made me feel weird about all the time I spent read. Your thoughts and logic are completely plausible and I find convincing. Seriously, good stuff.

Amazing. I never knew this. Very well done mate!!!

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

Thanks a lot choom! Glad to see this video still reaches others!

This is a really interesting video and I'm glad you pointed this out, but I think the difference is better explained by them changing the story so it would flow better with Johnny and Morgan's roles combined rather than some intentional depth from the developers. Having a bunch of stuff about Morgan in the game would make it a lot more complicated narratively and in the end this was the story they wanted to tell. It's like how in movie adaptations they often wind up dropping whole side plot lines and characters; when you're trying to tell a very specific story some of the asides from a novel can become such a nuisance that dropping them actually makes sense. For people who love the original story it can feel like sacrilege but it's important to remember that a film adaptation doesn't NEED all those extra bits to build out the world because it has more tactile means of conveying the story, namely audio and visual. Worldbuilding potential is increased dramatically in video games due to the interactivity, and developers need to be really, really, REALLY careful about how many stray tangents their story has. I'm on my 6th full playthrough of 2077 right now (each one taking about 100 hours) and let me tell you, after the first 3 or 4 I greatly appreciate anything which reduces the amount of forced storyline engagement I have to suffer through (but that's a different topic lol).

@hollywoodinked

Жыл бұрын

I just wrote a quick comment before reading yours saying the same thing, only you said it so much better. I think in the game we got the story that worked best for that adaptation. I don’t think it has anything to do with silverhands inflated ego. The game just kinda merged the two characters for the sake of storylines and told the story they wanted to tell.

@EternalNightingale

Жыл бұрын

Also I think so too cause no one in game questions it, they all see Johnny as a terrorist the main man who caused the AHQ bombing, rogue saw Johnny die in front on her as we saw and he whole thing with Grayson getting Johnnys belongings and where his body was dumped, CDPR is telling their own story arc with Johnny at the Same time it’s said to be in the same universe as previous cyberpunk content?

Quick question, if Johnny died in the Arasaka labs, then why does Rogue say "Not this time, Honey" when Johnny looses his balance on the AV and almost falls during the Rogue ending? That seems like a direct callback to Rogue dropping Johnny on the Arasaka rooftop in 2023.

@aldabraika1836

Жыл бұрын

Probably wasn't the first or only time rogue dropped him out of a helicopter, statistically.

@austinorlando4326

Жыл бұрын

There's also some questions raised in rogues questline specifically when talking to grayson, because he tells you where Johnny's body was dumped.

@markjackson1989

Жыл бұрын

@@austinorlando4326 I believe he posted a new video addressing that.

@austinorlando4326

Жыл бұрын

@@markjackson1989 I'm watching it right now

@thecrusader3704

Жыл бұрын

He did mention the price she paid to be queen of the after life

Thanks for the info here are some of my thoughts on it: - I do not think Johnny is "lying" since he is not telling a story, V is reliving his memories, so It is not on purpose, just Johnny has a messed up head. - Alt does point out ingame to V that Johnnys memories are far from what actually happened. - A possibility I see: Since Blackhand was last seen on the rooftop fighting Smasher, and we see this as memories. I would not put past Saka that they have engrammatic data from both Johnny and Blackhand, and they experimented with cutting and pasting some memories over from Blackhand-s engram, and merged it into Johnny's. With your information in mind you see Johnny in the apartment/zen garden thing as Smasher drops down next to him (which is basically where Johnny actually died if I understood it correctly), then there is a glitch/cut and you see Johnny on the roof getting shot up by Smasher then Interrogated (which could be implanted memories from Blackhand) Add the personality biases from Johnny's memory, and you can easyly get the sequence V relives. +1 Even Johnny says that the thing he cannot stomach is that Saka can now change change ppl and the person would not be even aware of it. +2 The Saka rep. in the quest Violence tells to Lizzy's manager that "they cannot edit an engram, ... but what edits did he have in mind" ... which basically tells me that "We actually could do it if the money is right."

In game Johnny talks about the memories of peoples engrams being stored and how they can be changed and overwritten so maybe what we see is a mishmash of silverhand and blackhands memories.

Johnny talked about « the hand » and the author confirmed that it’s Johnny’s cyberpsychosis, I think it had an impact on his recollection of the event.

I agree that Johnny remembers things wrong. Alt even mentions it when V first meets her. I do wonder how Smasher got Johnny's gun, car, & personality chip.

Doesn’t Smasher talking about Johnny pissing himself to Grayson when he gets soul killered punch a hole through this? Like that’s Smasher basically confirming Johnny wasn’t cut in half, so I’m thinking pondsmith retconned stuff.

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

I'll admit I completely missed this dialogue. That definitely means that at the least, Johnny was recovered at some point by Arasaka (Either directly after the Smasher fight or some point afterward) and blasted with soukiller. Rather than being recovered by Samantha.

that confirms my suspicions. I read what happened in the rulebook and I was a little confused especially when I thought back on Johnny's memories.

Really good synopsis. I’m sure the more mundane reason for the changes was to make the memories more exciting and build up the return to Arasaka in the endings, but this is definitely a more fun and realistic way to explain it. Along with that, the events of that day happened so long ago that there was likely plenty of misinformation, lies and stories spread about what happened that day between the corpos and mercs as well as Johnny’s crew so we’re realistically the only people who could know what actually happened since we have an outside view of the world and the story

I’m ngl I believe it’s a mix of Johnny’s ego radiation and militech erasing some memory’s because after spider used soul killer on him for some reason arasaka gets their hands on his engrams which means they likely wiped his memory or data and gave it to arasaka for them to “interrogate” him in soul prison which is why we probably get that scene we do and the gaps within the memory’s to hide militechs involvement making Johnny the fall boy.

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. I definitely believe that his interrogation scene is taking place in the soul killered engram. They’ve just removed his death so they could add a fake memory of him being captured. Therefore creating a “realistic” interrogation.

Now what alt was saying makes sense. Thanks for this video, love uncovering lore to this level

The main issue is that Cyberpunk: 2077 doesn't exist in the same timeline as the tabletop games. If the TTRPG is to be believed, Johnny couldn't have been hit with soulkiller, at the very least not to the extent that he was in CP2077, he probably died before Spider could even get to him, and his body was found in the ruins by Sarah. Further, for Johnny, when you go through his memories, the attack had just happened, it was his most recent memory, and to think he would be able to alter his memories to that extent so quickly doesn't sound very believable to me. I think that they changed the story for the game to make it more interesting, because if we just saw Johnny lead a strike team and then get beat up, it wouldn't make much sense. The story of the game makes the attack on Arasaka Tower Johnny's op in an attempt to find Alt. Morgan Blackhand probably wasn't involved, and Johnny was incapacitated by Smasher and taken to another Arasaka facility to be interrogated, before being hit with soulkiller so Arasaka could dig through his memories themselves. His body definitely doesn't get dumped in the bay, it ends up buried in a shallow grave in the dump, and Smasher gets Silverhand's car and pistol. There are huge and probable differences between the books and the game, and I find that indicative of being a separate timeline

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

I agree it could just be a separate timeline. I don’t want to believe it as Pondsmith seems to be very protective of his characters and story, though it’s always possible despite him making Red to lead into 2077. Though I’m not sure if I’d say Blackhand wasn’t apart of the raid. It seems that through dialogue in 2077, his status is unknown after 2023 just as it is in the TTRPG. I think it would downplay his character a lot not to have been apart of the militech raid despite Militech using him as their top solo.

@jgray4519

Жыл бұрын

@@LayedBackGamers I can confirm 2020, RED, and 2077 are all in the same timeline.

@EvanOfTheDarkness

Жыл бұрын

Could be that, but the what's in Cyberpunk Red is how the *public* knows things happened. We never see the second team, because Johnny wasn't in it. The only ones who *really* know how things went are the actual team members - including Johnny. Most of the verifiable points - the evacuation, nuke detonating halfway - are the same between the two versions, and the exact details are more like a legend, rather then solid facts. I think Cyberpunk Red details the "lore" version of the events - how people remember things happened, and Cyberpunk 2077 were given the task to write them as they *actually* happened.

@HeroicMoron

Жыл бұрын

@@LayedBackGamers Unfortunatly, it was actually said all the way back in one of Cyberpunk 2077's old trailers that this was a seprate timeline from the original Tabletop game. Plus, your description of events doesn't explain how Smasher then got Johnny's Car and Gun, or why it's "Johnny" who's publicly known as a terrorist in the present as V.

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

@@HeroicMoron I know that there was an interview for 2077 with Pondsmith that was commonly misinterpreted as 2077 being a seperate timeline from 2020 and Red. Pondsmsith later on his own said that he was misunderstood and that 2020, Red, and 2077 are all on the same timeline. Saying they spent a lot time to hash out the details and make sure they were. That was about a year before the release of the game I believe.

Only 82 subs? Keep up the grind dog u got smth good here

I really didn't know this, you made an excelente informative video!!!

This is very interesting. note that, even in the first memory we play(when Alt gets taken), Johnny keeps thinking it all revolves around him no matter what Thompson says. While we as the player figure out that Alt was the sole target and Johnny was simply a bystander.

@junior-fj8ud

Жыл бұрын

Johnny legitimately had no idea just how important Alt was prior to waking up after the attack. So this isn't entirely off-base. However, the flashback sequence in question is based on a short story that appeared in the very first Cyberpunk rulebook (the black box edition, which predates 2020). And there are a number of differences between the short story and the flashback.

Great video! I had no idea there were so many inconsistencies between the bridging books and Johnny's story. I love an unreliable narrator. (Site note: I think you may mean deludes instead of disillusions.) I honestly never stopped to question his account of events; even though we know that memory isn't reliable, it's usually treated as sacred in stories, like there's some perfect record of actual events available once you get 'deep' enough. Neat to see that they buck the trope here. I wonder if the interrogation happened when he was already in the vault, and that particular event really did happen. I also wonder if Johnny could have deliberately edited himself, maybe to protect someone else on the team? It seems awfully altruistic of him.

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

I believe from the point where it cuts in his initial encounter with Smasher, is when it’s false memories. I am under the impression Johnny died in that encounter as he did in the source material and instead had a false memory of him being taken captive in order to “realistically” probe his engram.

Nice to see this out there, have a friend who always suspected spider had soul killered johnny...

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

Yeah there’s just no way he survived that first encounter with Smasher the way it’s portrayed in 2077. Especially when he gets immediately trashed on and taken captive. That entire memory is fake so they could interrogate his engram after they retrieved it. Sometime after 2038

If Johnny was so insignificant, then why is he an engram created by Arasaka and the core element to the games story? If wat you're saying is true, then Blackhand would be the engram taking Vs body and Silverhand would be an insignificant footnote.

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

What I believe to be the case, is that since Arasaka at the time had lost Alt and been halted in their Soulkiller research, they needed the Soulkiller chip implanted by Murphy into Silverhand. His body and chip technically contains not only the original Soulkiller, but one that can be transported around.

@ramon4184

Жыл бұрын

Arasaka didn't turn sliverhand into an engram spider murphy was the one that did it. During the whole story sliverhand makes you believe that this whole thing is about alt which is simply not true the main character in that story is morgan blackhand. Just before the nuke went off blackhand and smasher where on the roof desperately trying to kill each other. When the bomb did go off it knocked them off the roof nearly killing smasher and some how morgan blackhand survived the fall

@ramon4184

Жыл бұрын

Johnny thinks he somehow important to arasaka which is simply not true. Johnny isn't even on arasakas radar as much as he likes to think

arasaka does change memories, ego, etc when they download a construct into mikoshi, turn you into someone completely different

Also just remember the first interlude was started with Johnny high for the whole affair. Perhaps that in some way saved him long enough with delusions of grandeur

Good video bro, see you in the major leagues lol, subbed

Interesting and enlightening video. You know the reason I've heard for the inconsistencies IRL is that Mike Pondsmith asked that Morgan Blackhand not be in the game so they had to replace him with Johnny. As for in game reasoning, the process of having your mind involuntary downloaded would be hard on the psyche so itau have damaged him and his memories to where this is how he remembers it.

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

Pondsmith did avoid having Blackhand in the game since he is currently ironing out everything in relation to him. Though Pondsmith still makes it clear that Red is canon. So despite not seeing him he is still technically at the raid. Silverhand did also experience a lot of rad poisoning from the nuke so more than likely he was damaged that way as well. There’s a lot of factors on this theory and it makes me feel like I did an injustice not mentioning some information in this video. More than likely I’ll have to make a complete remastered video in the future.

@rossnorris2351

Жыл бұрын

@@LayedBackGamers well, I'll watch it man.

This is absolutely mind-blowing, and falls in line with actual human psychology. People who compulsively lie will often times take the experiences of others and try to pass them off as their own. They don't often do it maliciously, but just to make them seem more interesting, or brave, or having any sort of desirable trait the experience would invoke. It's also entirely possible that Johnny wasn't lying at all, but that he was a construct for so long that everything got scrambled. I am currently experiencing this now with my real life memories after getting older. I remember things, but sometimes, I remember them completely out of order or blended together, and it's a real mind fuck. I am definitely going to be watching for more out of this. I love games that are deep in lore, and stuff like this is probably the most exciting thing about games to me.

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

Silverhand himself even says Arasaka implants fake memories and personalities into engrams using Mikoshi. So beyond his already radiation damaged engram and egotistical/narcissistic retelling of his memories, he wouldn’t even know if some were altered. Though I bet his poor memory made it difficult for Arasaka to edit like the average person and made it difficult to find the information they wanted on Alt.

@user-fo8ff2gl8n

Жыл бұрын

Also keep in mind that Silverhand was drowning in booze and drugs daily. That definitely rotted his brain in some capacity.

@markalken7976

Жыл бұрын

That sounds an awful lot like Cloud from Final Fantasy VII and his version of events from the Nibelheim incident

In all honesty it's just the writing of the game changed to incorporate Keanu's character more because of all the star power he brought to the game

My theory is that Yorinobu, who has a very similar backstory to Johnny, was going to use his engram as either a scapegoat for Saburo’s death or add him to his entourage against Arasaka. However, Johnny’s memories are changed because his memories about Blackhand and possibly some secret he discovered were too dangerous to be kept in tact. The new memories also changed Johnny’s personality, he’s always been a self absorbed dick but he hadn’t always been a freedom fighter. It might be erasure but there are no documents in Cyberpunk 2077 talking about “Freedom Fighter Johnny” or the fact that he was present at Arasaka HQ at all. In Cyberpunk Red (or time of the Red) it’s discovered that the reason the nuke goes off midway, killing the entire block was because someone set it off before it could reach the ground floor. They did that because there was a second nuke below ground that would’ve done much worse if it had gone off at the same time. That nuke survived the explosion and is saved by a fire fighter, eventually handed over to Tyler Santiago, who hands it over to Michiko Arasaka to be dismantled, who somehow hands the remnants to an unknown named Angel who opens it up and finds a body hidden inside. It’s widely believed to be Johnny. Something else, after Alt’s death we have no idea what Johnny does in the interim. All we know is that he hung out with Santiago until the nuke mission.

At one point it is mentioned that Mikoshi is such a problem due to Arasaka Corp being able to change who you are without knowing it. Is it possible that they deliberately changed his memories and substituted him for Blackhand? Given M.B. was such a threat to Arasaka, I can see how reviewing the memory from a forced perspective would give them the ability to learn about their enemy and what the real plans were for the nuke beyone wanton destruction.

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

That makes sense. They for sure removed his death and formed a memory of a fake capture so they could “realistically” interrogate his engram. It makes a lot of sense to do it from a “Blackhand is captured” perspective as well.

I think some of it like Saboru using soul killer on Johnny, is him trying to fill in the gaps in his head as he had no idea and just assumed that, probably no thanks to his ego.

I bought the story the same way that V did. There’s no reason to question it or doubt it. at least my first play through. After going through it a couple of times I realize that there are a lot of holes in Johnny story. Things that just don’t make sense. I have not read the books that were mentioned in this video. But thank you for this video because it really fill in those gaping holes and explains a whole lot.

The Engram is a product of Araska. They got fragments and tried to meld them together, with whatever they could fond

I'd also like to add that I think Johnny's memories are at some points affected by V's consciousness, specifically when you're given dialogue options. It's weird to have these at some points and not others, and in addition Johnny does not seem to behave any different when talking with V, regardless of what decisions you make. Also, I think Johnny being split in half must not be as gruesome as it sounds, or it has been retconned. While Cyberpunk is ultimately sci-fi, it's still relatively grounded with only cutting edge technology crossing the line into fantastical science. As such, a brain "split in half" by Smasher and recovered likely hours later would not be viable for soulkiller, so I think Silverhand must've been in critical condition, but not dead for long

love this keep up the good work

Thank you for this video, I really like lore around games, especially Cyberpunk. I only played the PC game and that's pretty much all I knew about this world. I always felt like Johnny's story doesn't really add up, even if he feels it's true. I was never able to grasp what Alt meant by saying that his memories aren't accurate and now I know. It makes me sympathize with Johnny even more, knowing now all this.

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

Johnny gains immortality at the cost of losing parts of his humanity. No matter what timeline of Cyberpunk we look at (There’s two non canon timelines in the TTRPG which are V3.0 and Cybergenerations) he still dies and is brought back repeatedly, all while losing himself. I’m glad you enjoyed and I hope to continue having your support. I hope you had a great holiday!

@XEyedN00b

Жыл бұрын

@@LayedBackGamers and in the game if you choose the badass ending he is once again storming Arasaka with a legendary solo, V :)

I agree with everything that was said up to the point where you mention saburo didn't have a vendetta against Johnny you can find saburos journal in his av and it mentions how he had an old rival or something like that also if he was so insignificant why was he put on an engram?

Very interesting take on the story!

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

I really appreciate that. Thank you!

This gets me excited for what's gonna happen in phantom liberty .

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

There's so much they could do with the DLC. This is their chance to touch upon this topic as it won't be possible to without Johnny there in the sequel.

@parthsharma4016

Жыл бұрын

@@LayedBackGamers yeah man that would be crazy and I hope we get to interact with blackhand and murphy, can't wait for the expansion.

I think part of the misremembering was silverhands massive ego but some might also be from interrogation inside makoshi. The scene when he was carted away and the scene in the interrogation room probably is inside makoshi. there may have been some point during the red where arasaka found Silverhands engram.

You forget to mention one thing: It was Spider Murphy who used Soulkiller on Johnny. How Araska came into the possession of his engram remains a mystery.

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

I definitely did forget to mention that the chip inserted by Murphy was specifically a soulkiller program give to Murphy by alt. I ended up bringing it up on my other video but it should’ve been specified in this as well.

I like this but there’s stuff that doesn’t add up like; if Johnny was shot in half how does he end up in the relic, and the interactions with rogue show that Johnnys memories whereby lies. I belive more in fact that Johnnys memories are glorified because of what he believes, this isn’t to say Adam and Morgan’s Fight didn’t happen but that instead it was after Johnny and Adam

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

I believe Murphy met a very close time window between him being shot and completely brain dead. Currently I see the interrogation scene as taking place in his engram way after the fact. Recovered by Arasaka after the story Black Dog takes place. I go over Black Dog a bit more in my new video. They are glorified but I believe a key thing about Arasaka using engrams, is that they always erase the legitimate death and look for useful information. Silverhands chip also contains the original Soulkiller by Alt and a transportable one at that. Which is why they needed to use it so badly.

I think when the chip got damaged some of his memories got lost that's why sometimes he tells us something different than what really happened or he can't really remember it , like when v went with kerry to caliente johnny says he somehow remember the place but don't know why or how

Tbh, Alt says this in the game. She says that his memories are from his perspective and ego, which means we may never really know how Silverhand ended up on that relic. Silverhand was also super OP in those memories which was definitely a fantasy.

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

Yeah Silverhand WISHES he didn’t get immediately obliterated by Smasher. I made a newer video that covers everything in relation to this topic and the Alt quote as well. There was so much I didn’t cover in this video I felt it was necessary!

It would also be Interesting if one the Cyberpunk Red version of events is an Arasaka edited one. It throws us off as players and makes it more mysterious.

On the plus side that means that there’s hope for alt! If they go past the black wall maybe they can find her fragments and bring her back truly? I really felt bad for alt and would love for her to be whole again in cyberspace at least

Again absolutely top flight insight into the game that truly alters the perception of what's actually happening around the characters in the game. So much twist and turn's you have provided to give the game such a fresh prospective. If CD Project Red hasn't hired you already they'd better, and fast!

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

I really appreciate you taking the time to look on through these videos of mine. I always try to bring something new to the community and start unique discussion between everyone. Cyberpunk is such an exciting series because it's built to spark these interactions between us and speculation. I wish CDPR would hire me, maybe someday I will get the opportunity!

In the same way that CDPR's Witcher isn't exactly the Witcher canon, when playing CP2077 I just assumed the writers of the Comp Game conflated Blackhand and SIlverhand--I mean, that's a lot of hands. And although Blackhand is critical to the ttrpg, I don't know if he's ever mentioned in a spoken line in the crpg. So although Johnny isn't completely honest, that one might not be on him. This might have been a writer-empowered change. We do know that Johnny wasn't dead in that scene, because we also know that he got Soul Killer'd and turned into an engram. That is the one 100% fact. Because no Soul Killer, no engram. No engram, no construct. (And Arasaka is still Soul Killer. Witness the bad ending for Jackie).

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

I was originally under that same belief to be honest. It would make sense from a studio perspective to mash the two seeing as they’re both insanely interesting characters with cool feats. However I believe that Pondsmith is too close with the story writing to allow his characters to be messed with like that without a good reason. Cyberpunk Red was written alongside 2077 so I believe if they were technically combined, it would have to be something like their engrams being infused. That would be assuming that Blackhand got soulkillered. Also there is dialogue about Morgan Blackhand throughout 2077. None by Johnny, but the most notable being a bar top conversation about sightings of Blackhand at the afterlife. This happened when Jackie was still alive early in the game.

@dougpirko211

Жыл бұрын

@@LayedBackGamers And I just started a play-through: Jackie mentions Blackhand (just a reference) in the drive from Heywood to Watson (or vice versa) after the first rescue mission. But the one thing we know: Johnny was Soul Killed. So even if he suffered grievous bodily harm he lived long enough for Arasaka to capture his engram. Because we don't know what really happened to Morgan B, there are rumours he survived. Rogue and Adam are the two survivors of that attack that we meet in '77, and neither of them fill in any details. Oh, and Alt C, but she isn't really the old Alt C from the flashbacks anymore.

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

@@dougpirko211 Yeah from what I’ve been looking at now in relation to Johnny being soulkillered, that definitely is the case. Now the question lies in how Morgan B was involved in the attack. He definitely was seeing as there’s questions of his survival, but we are yet to see if he actually survived or got soulkillered as well. Seeming as they retconned specific details, I wonder if he even fought Smasher at all during the duration of the raid or if he left it all to Johnny.

@trippykoala5992

Жыл бұрын

@@LayedBackGamerswell if Johnny was copied after death wouldn’t he be more incoherent like Jackie was cause he was copied after death and is not fully there.

@dougpirko211

Жыл бұрын

@@LayedBackGamers We don't see how Johnny escapes Adam. And the mushroom cloud is rising (but it may be a projected image, not a window) when Saburo talks to Johnny. And in the lore MG was part of a different team. So there are a *lot* of holes for MB to fit in. Will we see or hear about MB in Phantom Liberty? Only one way to find out! Rather than wholesale memory editing, like a BD, I like the idea of Johnny the supreme Narcissist. We all only remember what we saw or heard, Johnny only remembers how important and pivotal he feels he was!

one thing you have to consider, is the immense physical and psychological trauma that comes from the wound Johnny suffered at Arasaka. He was literally torn *in half* by Adam Smasher with barely a second thought. The amount of sheer trauma from the body literally dumping every chemical it can to stem either the bleeding or to null the pain would be enough to send the brain into absolute shock. Combine that with suddenly having a chip slotted into your neuro-port and everything that is "you" being downloaded and stored into what is essentially a flashdrive, and it's a wonder his digital brain is even REMOTELY intact. But you also have to remember the idea/scheme behind soul-killer. The brass tacks of it, is to capture the personality/memory/soul of whomever it is that Arasaka wants and grill them for information for nearly an eternity. So the "johnny got captured and interrogated" memory is less of a figmentation and more of an abstractation. If you've seen/played Soma you can see a bit of a parallel.

this makes much more sense and answers some of my questions i had

Love the video. My personal interpretation involves the vagaries of TTRPGs. I had interpreted Alt's statement that Johnny's memories were false as meaning, "Due to the how individual table top players may go through the scenario they'll do things slightly differently." But it is important to know how the "canon" unfolds and what it means. Especially with regards to outsiders doing their own thing. I personalty believe all of the scenarios can be viewed as true... From a certain point of view.

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

I’m definitely interested how they handle V in the future Cyberpunk TTRPG. The only path I can’t imagine them going with V in canon is as a net runner build.

@Nicholas.Rogala

Жыл бұрын

@@LayedBackGamers Idk about the future of V, but my personal headcanon is the Johnny ending. Following the only path at continuing to exist and giving Johnny another lease on life seems appropriate to me. Hopefully the next game is better constructed.

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

@@Nicholas.Rogala I definitely agree. Unless there is an actual cure for V, which doesn't seem like there is. Letting Johnny live another life is much more valuable than just dying within 6 months. Johnny is doing a lot of good in that ending as well.

nice vid! +subbed

Man i love this content. And im hoping im not the only one to spot a mysterious photo in rogues apartment with johnny, rogue and a certain african american solo who wears a trenchcoat...

@LayedBackGamers

Жыл бұрын

I love that photo actually

I always knew something didn't add up. So we should see the true recollection in Phantom Liberty or the sequel. This just gets more and more exciting! 😃

sounds good, but the sidemission where you and Rogue go to the ebinuke and find Johnny's gun and car show Adam smasher definitely didnt feel Johnny as just some random solo rocker, so i get the feeling the game canon and the board canon are simply different

@hatad321

Жыл бұрын

According to Mike Pondsmith it's the same canon. Smasher wasn't the only person connected to the boat, it's Grayson who had the gun and knew where the car was. Smasher is even pretty confused when you defeat him and tell him it was for Johnny.

I see it as along the same lines as Cloud Strife and Zack Fair... trauma and personal disappointment in their lack of impact in important events causes false memories

It makes sense. I know the lore as being a fan back in the day of the tabletops. But I just kind of thought details were changed either cause they slightly altered the events of the prequel stories for creative reasons. Or because of time swapped Morgan for Johnny since Morgan seems to have been removed from the game all together. Atleast that we can see. While I still think reason 2 is likely still a part of it, I also now think this vid is correct. As it makes sense as to why Smasher is like, what the hell are you going on about? To V at the end of the game when talking about Johnny. Also why Johnny chimes in real quick to say just end him already. Also makes sense why Smasher is so intent on getting Rogue. In Johnny's version he seemed pretty content to have got Johnny on the roof. But yet in reality he is beyond raged about Rogue at the end and only her and never brags about killing Johnny or Morgan. Which means if Morgan is alive somewhere that Samasher believes him to be dead. But yeah he is on a pure mission about Rogue. Like a target he failed to get. And thats cause she is. He was too busy fighting Morgan and lost Rogue being the only one of that crew still alive at the end of the game. And just like in edgerunners it kills him to let anyone live.

There are some inconsistencies with the game story and the books, like the fact that despite Jhonny holding no insignificance compared to black hand for arasaka or Adam smasher and that his body was found and stored by a fan somehow his biochip (which was supposedly extracted after death so at the time it should of been working very wackly), got somehow to the hands of yorinobu arasaka, was considered an arasaka treasure and that his stuff have gotten to arasaka agents hands is very wierd to me. The only 2 explanations I have for this is: 1. The devs decided to change the story a little for the better or worse. 2. The Ingram V and Jackie stole was never of Jhonny silverhand, but a merge of both Ingram's to make the next best supersoldier Incase something happens to Adam smasher. Which then explains where did Jhonny get these memories that was supposedly of morgen blackhands.

Maybe a bit of blackhand is rattling around in V's skull as well. Maybe it was blackhand who was interrogated by saburo and subjected to soul killer 🤔 and then he and Johnny were melded.

I think there are very very few times when we see Johnny being fully honest to V and fully honest to himself. When you do the mission with the old guy who remembers samurai, and Johnny says something about how everything changed, but it's still the same thing under the new paint. In the oil fields, Johnny feels honest. He's hurting and hates that he's been forgotten. He didn't leave his mark. At the very end, when you have to choose between who leaves, he doesn't want to die again, but he knows it's not his world anymore. There's more moments I'm sure, but a lot of the time it feels like johnny doesn't want to admit that he did so much, and it is barely a spec on the timeline of the world. He still wishes he could be a legend, he still wants to be a savior, he still wants to cause change. His ego gets in the way, and is a large part of the distrust between Johnny and V IMO.

This is awesome! This might be linked to the fact that everything was recorded by the man who accompanied Silverhand in the flashbacks yet there is no footage

Been playing through the game recently again and what caught my eye is that between the Arasaka raid section and the interrogation by Saburo the subtitles switch from Johnny's yellow and blue to the default red. With the UI representing your ocular implants I wonder if this is simply the first, visual, hint that these are manufactured memories, likely by Arasaka to find out what the engram knew, putting a 3rd factor to how unreliable Johnny's narration is.

@ravenblood1954

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I’ve been replaying the game too and I’m surprised the KZreadr didn’t mention this. But in your first interaction with Johnny in the apartment the game hints that Johnny knows he’s not a perfect copy. While you are crawling for the medicine he mutters “it’s just a copy of the engram, I’m out there somewhere, gotta be” meaning he knows he’s not the original. This could be why WE can play as Johnny by changing his dialogue and can make decisions for him. That’s why we can choose play Johnny as a sympathetic character capable of empathy, who’s idealism led him down the wrong path or a psychopathic narcissist with delusions of grandeur. It’s cause Johnny is not a clone but more like a shard of the original personality, and as the story develops he has the potential to change in ways the real Johnny probably never could, not just cause he has different memories but cause his mind is literally melding with V’s. Plus there’s that scene with the voodoo boys where you can ask Bridgette if the engram is in working order and she cryptically says “it’s enough to make her think it’s genuine” and refuses to elaborate.

Thank you. As someone who has never played the tabletop, I would never have known about this canon lore without your video. It does make me question, is Johnny's engram really Johnny, or perhaps more accurately, purely Johnny? Or as the engram Arasaka used as its test bed for their Relic experiments, did his engram get mixed with Blackhand's which is why he has completely replaced him in his memories. Perhaps many engrams got mixed together and Johnny's just came out dominant or was the majority used in the version that worked.

I think Johnnys memories are pretty realistic for how I guy like him would view himself and the world around him. And really it’s only through his eventual friendship with V that he grows as a character.

I could honestly see either v or a new created character in a sequel with Morgan black hand being in your “relic”

I think the memories that johnny has are just memories programmed into the engram, probably even by blackhand himself or people who employ him now, to erase himself from the story. One of the CP plotlines is memory manipulation. I don't remember Rogue mentioning Blackhand was there too. They might not remember it at all.

could be an experiment, by Asaka to change and alter backhands memories, and put what they know about johnny in their place.

V riding off with the nomads is the best ending and no one can change that for me haha.

Makes me think of that one line Jackie slings at you in the beginning of the game: "Nah, mano. Not just any other city. Morgan Blackhand, Andrew Weyland, Adam Smasher. Legends are born here. Man, I'm starvin’. Let's grab a tight-bite. Whaddaya say?" No mention of Johnny at all.

Hell Alt legit tells you when you meet her that Johnny's memories are not to be trusted as they are how he WANTS to remember not actually what happen.

@LayedBackGamers

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When Soulkiller itself says something about an engram, it’s best to listen.

If you read the mission synopsis written by Johnny for each of his flashbacks, it seems to imply that neither his "memories" nor the official accounts are true. The latter are a noble lie, a legend built off a myth built off the team members telling an account of the story that made them all sound heroic. "What? No, we didn't run away while Johnny got massacred by Smasher, he sacrificed himself to buy us time. It was very heroic and noble. In fact, I took down Smasher because of his help. Definitely didn't get winged in the helo and miss the whole run." Meanwhile he explicitly says that his recollection of Alt's kidnapping and botched rescue are a recurring dream. He has survivor's guilt and sees a twisted version of the events in his nightmares, so it *is* a memory. It's his memory of his dreams, and they're the "truth" in that they reveal the emotional core of his motivations. He doesn't care about colonialism or capitalism anymore, he cares that Arasaka stole his girlfriend's soul and he failed to stop them.

could have been the delusions of a dying mind, one that spent decades dying. as he described his stay in mikoshi as almost what can be called a fugue state, not sure if he was awake or not, and not sure who he really was. maybe the memories are unconscious fabrications he made as his mind was dying in the tower, based on information he gleaned from other memories he managed to retain. cunningham also comments on this toward the end, stating that his memories aren't realiable in reference to their relationship, but that he believes they are real, and what V has really seen are the garbled reamins of that.

Never caught up on this how Shaitan is useless as a gunner until Johnny takes over. How the ragtag gang easily assaults a corporate headquarter, how the tower raids we see in flashbacks are all different non-coherent versions of the same raid while in-game it seems they are different raids. It's just a fantasy trip but since this always happens in video games noone questions it. How in cyberspace we always return to the place where he met Smasher and supposedly dies in-canon (in the atrium). And he kinda kills Alt by casually jacking her out seemingly dead. Love to see an engram of Spider Murphy in the next game, seems legit interesting. I do wonder now if "Don't Fear The Reaper" events are even real now.

Very useful knowledge. Thank you 👍

could be blackhand's and his memories got mixed up or merged to get access to black hand through johnny as black hand is a high level operative

A rockerboy who just wanted to be known and go down a legend, even if he false some the memories, and some the crazy things he done and said to V, for him to be part of it all, with some the top legends and be next to Morgan Black hand in what they was trying to do is awesome, so ya some of his ego probably did get the better of him, but I think at some point he should have been like look V that's not how it really went down. I wonder how Morgan Black Hand looked at Johnny too like what he thought of him. But some interesting stuff

I heard that memories degrade over time as how we never remember how our childhoods were in a complete state when were forty. We do create false memories. Perhaps, the construct's memories reflect the false memory phenomenon as Johnny was pretty messed up in the head after the raid. That brings a question of what happened to Morgan Blackhand then. Will we get to know his fate in the Edgerunners Era? (what they are calling the 2077 timeline of Cyberpunk) Will we get to hear Mike voice the character someday?

nice video mate