Don't neglect the possibility of sodium ion taking lithium's place. While not being used in a large scale yet, they are the perfect product for home energy storage and will likely cut battery costs to half of lithium. They still currently have a lower density than lithium but that's ok for stationary storage solutions.

@Ryan-ff2db

7 күн бұрын

The first SIB's for home storage are expected around summer of 2025 as newer SIB dedicated factories ramp. They likely won't be much cheaper at first though, until supply increases to meet demand.

@joryferrell7244

6 күн бұрын

They also have discharge curve that isn't as flat, which means that you need a more sophisticated inverter. Still, they are better for stationary cost-wise.

@philgooddr.7850

6 күн бұрын

Price of lithium has collapsed with poor EV sales in 2024, down to 14k$/ton of LiCl. yet sodium salt batteries wi5 nickel plates installed here are more durable and easely recycled but are heavy and less efficient so for home use only and moderate capacity. a supermarket in Schlieren has 520kWh of sodium salt battery installed but it weight 7 tons...

@natenut1694

6 күн бұрын

I agree. I understand soduim energy density is around 100-150watt/kg. It will mostly be sitting and take up some space. But i know that energy density in time will improve.

@larryc1616

6 күн бұрын

Catl is making sodium ion batteries for byd ev this year!

What?!?! My batteries were installed and hung on the wall in a matter of hours. My entire 12 kw system with 22 panels, 2 inverters, and 2 10kwh wall batteries took 1 day. A 2nd day was just to inspect and confirm. The entire system 14,000 USD complete with installation.

@andra9694

5 күн бұрын

Dang

@mpetty9947

4 күн бұрын

That's amazing.

Batteries are obscenely overpriced for what you get. About time prices started dropping. But thy are STILL too high.

@user-tg2gm1ih9g

6 күн бұрын

what *ARE* you talking about ? Duracell 20,000 milliamp·hour alkaline D 20 amp·hour cell 1.5 volts 30 watt·hours $24.49 Amazon, for 24 batteries $1.02 per battery ********* 29 watt·hours per dollar Weize 12 volt Deep Cycle 100 amp·hours lead/acid 1200 watt·hours battery 500 re-charges 600,000 watt hours $151.29 per battery ********** 3,966 watt·hours per dollar Solorage 12 volts LiFePO4 100 amp·hours battery 1200 watt·hours 5,000 re-charges 6,000,000 watt hours $169.99 per battery ******** 35,296 watt·hours per dollar these new Lithium batteries sound like a *bargain* to me !!

Crazy that you can buy a 98kwh used F150 Lightning for $30k. Combine that with battery system you can essentially buy a mobile battery with the capacity of 6-7power walls.

@free_stylabro6490

6 күн бұрын

In my country South Africa you can buy 100kwh worth of LFP batteries for $14500. Depending on the brand of course. Prices have dropped a lot.

@juliussk

6 күн бұрын

​@@free_stylabro6490$145/KW is awesome. Here it's $230/KW for EG4 big batteries

@solarprosteam

6 күн бұрын

Correct, however, we have to factor into account the value that a wall-mounted battery will provide in being able to discharge at a high enough power output to power the loads in the house, through a dedicated connection point in the main service panel.

@meikgeik

6 күн бұрын

Where can I buy a used Lightning for $30k? I'll buy that in cash right now.

@daveduncan2748

6 күн бұрын

@@meikgeik Just the battery, I suspect. The truck it came from has probably been totaled.

CATL is quoting prices as low $56 per kwh by the end of this year. Assuming no additional tariffs, this is a significant reduction from current pricing.

@tibsyy895

6 күн бұрын

Per kWh now it's around $660! You saying it's gonna be $56? I don't see that coming! Source?

@2hotscottpro

6 күн бұрын

I heard the same but not with yer math.

@ronbridegroom8428

6 күн бұрын

@@tibsyy895 I suspect he is quoting raw prismatic battery cost. You $660 per kwh is very high but might be correct for ripoffs like Tesla and similar solutions. Go with a solar generator, ground mount solar system if you have the room and a solar generator with a transfer switch and be off-grid as much as possible

@free_stylabro6490

6 күн бұрын

In South Africa you can pay as low as $150 per KWH for LFP batteries. I think tariffs in the US for Chinese LFP batteries will increase that price to at least $300. I think margins will also be higher your side so more than likely $400 retail price.

@Ryan-ff2db

6 күн бұрын

@@tibsyy895 Source is CATL itself on their website. This is at the cell level, which currently is around $100 to $120 for LFP.

LFP prices has gone down because the EV production in China soared however there is a chance that it has peaked because Chinese EV production has also slowed down and the excess LFP went to PV storage. There is also a chance that by 2025 the battery prices will stable or will increase once they slowed down the battery production.

It might already be to late, as 25% tariffs on batteries are here.

Additional battery supply was also created when the auto manufacturers reduced their forecast of electric cars. The battery manufacturers had orders in 2022 from them that were dramatically reduced.

@solarprosteam

6 күн бұрын

Correct, that it playing into the oversupply factor for the raw material costs.

Great content. Thanks. Wondering how you view the introduction of Sodium Ion batteries affecting prices & use ... believe these batteries are happy with high temperatures, low temperatures & aren't affected by being taken to 0% charge ? Plus, any guess on when they'd be available for domestic use

Gelion Batteries keep working don't catch fire on a BBQ grill. Once these are available for sale they will be on my house... QED

100 AH LFP on Amazon higher than start of year? what kind of crash is that

Battery prices are not falling

The biggest concern I have is all of the meddling in the free market (government "incentives" and tariffs) that will drive the price of both PV panels and various battery solutions back up again, but mostly for domestic suppliers in the US.

Interesting , Thank You . I hope every thing works

@solarprosteam

6 күн бұрын

Thanks!

Batteries have been dropping for decades. They are still too expensive. I buy them for disaster recovery purposes. I recently went through 7 days without power. Solar and Batteries was part of the solution (but the major part was still a propane generator).

I made the plunge with a Bluetti for partial home backup and Delta Pro for an off grid workshop. I am banking on being able to expand at a fraction of my initial cost. I realize technology will change, capacity will only get better. In my opinion the companies that will thrive will be the ones that can seamlessly upgrade or replace my existing batteries. As adding panels, transfer switches, etc can cost more than a fairly large capacity battery. Get me a plug and play bidirectional V2H EV charger and Ill be happy.

Breakthroughs in recycling technology should help reduce the cost of the raw elements used in batteries. There will come a point, where no additional mining will be necessary to maintain the market. The only mining from then on, would be to expand the market. Once those materials are in the market, they too, will remain in the market. That eliminates pollution from disposal, as well as provide a cheap source of the raw elements.

@Ohiostategenerationx

4 күн бұрын

That does sound good but it's wrong though. Look at plastics. Recycling is a myth. There's enough plastic in this world to never have to produce anymore ever again. But it's still way cheaper to make new plastic then it costs to recycle it and reuse it. Only about 10 percent is actually recycled the rest is sent overseas for poor countries to deal with it.

There is also the issue of a utility paying a premium for power when they have a need for it. This makes sense for both home battles as well as systems using EV batteries being able to feed power to a Utility.

Perhaps the use of sodium instead of lithium will keep the price low?

One more variable why solar batteries cost has soften and that is the slow down in Electric Vehicle sales in the USA. Plus, the more popular EV choice - Hybrids.

@solarprosteam

6 күн бұрын

Yes, that ties in with the supply and demand factor for Lithium.

Great summary! Subscribed!

@solarprosteam

6 күн бұрын

Thanks!

In addition to tax credits to battery manufacturers, the IRA provides 30% tax credits to homeowners and businesses who buy and install solar and/or battery systems. These credits are good until 2033, giving manufacturers confidence to expand battery manufacturing facilities. In 2034, the credit drops to 26%

@Ohiostategenerationx

4 күн бұрын

What does the Irish Republic Army have to do with it.

One factor could be many people who would be possible buyers of battery systems have already purchased theirs and therefore those people are less likely or not likely to purchase anymore taking them out of the market.Also the economy dictates the industry to lower prices or not make sales.

@solarprosteam

6 күн бұрын

In fact, the percentage of homeowners in the USA who have solar and have a battery system connected is well under 15%. I would say that their is a large area for growth, as long as costs continue to come down.

They have meter collars for EV chargers too. Will Prowse can install a battery in minutes but he has everything setup and does it every couple weeks. Sodium Ion will crush LFP for home storage.

I don't see battery prices lower as I brought 24 AGM Batteries for our system in late 2019 for $590/ea. The same batteries are not $710/ea.

I'll believe it when I see it.

Can you please do a video on panel maintenance? Installing panels on the ground makes cleaning them easy, but not all houses have enough yard area for that.

@solarprosteam

2 күн бұрын

I would, however it is not super complicated. I recommend hiring a local solar panel company to come out 1-2 times a year, usually after spring and summer time to clean the panels. Shouldn't cost more than $150 for the average sized system

You appear to have forgotten or be unaware that sodium ion batteries are moving onto the market as ell and giga factories are going to be ramping up in the next few years and will free up a lot of lithium batteries for cars. .

lol people doing diy are saving 90% thats why imo. 16kwh lfp bat = $1400 now lol

@solarprosteam

6 күн бұрын

It just depends on what kind of battery system you are looking to invest into. If you are looking at using smaller LifePower4 48V batteries, and you have a hybrid inverter, it is going to be much lower cost. If you are looking at using a wall-mounted AC/DC coupled battery which has more functionalities, that cost will be higher.

@Green-Hatter

9 сағат бұрын

Which battery?

@vevenaneathna

4 сағат бұрын

@@Green-Hatter 4x 280ah 3.2v lifepo4 eve cells from china. 320 usd total for 4kwh. built my own 12v battery to replace my ev's old agm battery and wired up 200w of flexible solar on the roof to keep it charged up. back feeding my house with a 50w chinease microinverter which cost 32 bucks. the mppt charge controller from easun power 30a was 28 usd. i made a post in the gm chevy volt forums under the gen1 modifications section if you want to read more and see all the pictures i uploaded.

I'm building 15kwh 48v batteries for $1700 to $1900 depending on cells used.

Nuclear electricity biggest problem is that it is GRID ELECTRICITY. The Grid makes dirt cheap electricity expensive, extremely expensive in an all electric home with EVs or BVs. With Battery Vehicles, Electric vehicles, parked 23hrs every day, FREE storage is available. Rooftop solar PV and EV big batteries and no grid electricity is ezi pezi.

@kennethferland5579

5 күн бұрын

Maybe If you work nightshift and your car were parked at home durring the day. But most workers work durring the day and will need a battery that stays at home, which means either having a traditional home battery or two BEV's which alternate being the stay-at-home battery while the other takes you to work.

@stephenbrickwood1602

5 күн бұрын

@@kennethferland5579 a standard wall outlet and trickle charging is all that would be needed. Wall outlet are very cheap. Not all work places will have them. But things will change. Some people will be very slow to change and petrol will be available for years.

Hold out.California needs them

@2hotscottpro

6 күн бұрын

I put thumb in mouth n blew so say when.

@2hotscottpro

6 күн бұрын

Now?

Check out Wright's Law, basically a doubling in production reduces costs by 10-15%

@solarprosteam

2 күн бұрын

Great point.

This is great news, more people will be able to afford them now,

Thank god.

How about sodium batteries? The cost should be lower and the are said to be safer.

@meikgeik

6 күн бұрын

It will take a few years for them to ramp up mass production to get anywhere near the prices of LFP cells coming out of China. Look up EVE lifepo cells, they're insanely cheap. Also of note: many of the sodium cells currently on the market from overseas vendors are not actually sodium cells, but LFP cells they're lying about. There are very few sodium cells actually making it onto the market yet, and the feedback on them is that they're clearly a first generation product, and not ready for most people.

@gterhorst

6 күн бұрын

@@meikgeik the newest Chinese batteries from CATL seem to be sodium ion aswell.

@gterhorst

6 күн бұрын

@@meikgeik also natron seems to have its own niche, in the NAS market.

It also looks like Pennsylvania may become a major source of lithium... fracking waste water brine.

@majorhavoc9693

3 күн бұрын

But watch, the batteries made here will be double the Chinese ones.

Show me some real-world numbers.. not general statements. $18,000 for a 13 kilowatt battery is NOT a low price.

@IJRPUBLIC

6 күн бұрын

A Google search shows, "In 2021, you'd pay $12,000 for a 13.5 kilowatt Tesla Powerwall, and the cost has since come down a bit to $11,500 for a single unit. " I may be wrong, but that does not look anywhere close to a 40% drop in battery price. I am looking to buy. Please show me I am wrong.

@solarprosteam

6 күн бұрын

​@@IJRPUBLIC In 2021, a Tesla Powerwall 2, along with the additional Tesla firmware necessary to connect and commission the system would have run ≈ $17,500. With the newer Powerwall 3, you will be looking at just under ≈ $11,000. Though, it will vary depending on the market you are in among other factors.

@majorhavoc9693

3 күн бұрын

Go to signature solars website and look at their rack mount batteries. 30.7 kwh rack of batteries for $7,443.00.

You have not factored in to Sodium Ion Batterries !! do your Research they have become more comparative Vs Lithium in terms of per KG energy density !!! 270/kg Vs Litium 250 to 300/KG and in few months will be equal !!!

Sodium batteries are on the way in, and lithium is on the way out.

@majorhavoc9693

3 күн бұрын

Years away...

Falling demand for BEVs

plus people like Will Prowse, have show people how cheap and crapy the low end batters were built. but those communist chinese corps have stepped up there game. but not all. some of the better American brands have tried to lower there prices due to the cheap units coming in from china. but there people like me are priced out of the market. at tidays pricing i would still need $10 grand USD to buy the correct amount and style of battery i need. then the solar, but that would be killed of by a increase in my taxes. ( improvements what the calls it).

@majorhavoc9693

3 күн бұрын

You get 30% off on your taxes for everything solar.

cant wait till oil compaines start going belly up

@johnhardin9416

6 күн бұрын

Oh, wait your name says it all!

I believe the Nevada rare earth mineral mine was sold to the Chinese.

@user-fu8vn7xo6c

6 күн бұрын

A security issue that would affect a key supply chain in a military crisis, don’t you think?

It’s simple, battery are expensive power, solar is way too cheap solar so you can have 15kwh of solar and a mere 28kwh of battery and you are pretty much sufficient for a normal 2adult 2 infants home. If there is no demand, prices are going down.

@phyllisclayton8320

5 күн бұрын

And what is the cost of these batteries

@titigrewa824

4 күн бұрын

@@phyllisclayton8320 nowdays around 100$/kwh , I have bought for 55$/kwh but I can’t promise they are the same brand,longevity and quality as the more expensive ones

@dplalowski

4 күн бұрын

EG4 batteries x2 28.6kWh for $6,600

Some observations from a DIY person. Biden has doubled the tariffs on Chinese products, so I’m figuring this is on solar batteries, panels, inverters. A lot of the installers have gone bankrupt, leaving their consumers with no way to fix problems that may arrive. It’s never been easier to DIY your own system, especially if it’s off grid or hybrid. I would stay away from grid tide systems, as when the grid goes down your solar goes down with it. Also, it’s a bad idea to lease your panels, when you try to sell your house it will be much harder! People don’t want two different payments on a house they buy.

A lot of odd frequent edits in this video.

Home batteries are located in the wrong place we only need one battery and it should be in the automobile.

@solarprosteam

6 күн бұрын

That is a good point, but their needs to be a dedicated connection point for the automobile battery to discharge into a homes electrical panel in order for it to be of utility.

@meikgeik

6 күн бұрын

Maybe that works for you, but it wouldn't work for me. I want batteries in my cars, in my RV, in my house, and in my bikes. Why should my 3d printers stop printing from off grid solar stored in my batteries just because I want to take my car somewhere? Everyone's needs are different.

@offgridwanabe

6 күн бұрын

@@meikgeik Maybe when they are affordable but until then my car uses the most energy and needs the biggest battery so when it just sits in the driveway waiting for me to go somewhere I would like to take advantage of the huge investment in my battery. Not to mention the RV which sits in the yard 99% of the time if it had batteries it could supply my home most days.

@kennethferland5579

5 күн бұрын

Please explain how you got the home Solar system to fit onto the automobile to charge it when your at work durring the day? Most people work durring the day and their vehicle is away from home durring nearlly all hours of sunlight. The only way what your describing can work is if being own multiple BEV's and alternate with one is drive such that one is always left connected to the home to recive power. Or if workplaces all have plugs to allow employee vehicles to soak up the daytime solar output.

@offgridwanabe

5 күн бұрын

@@kennethferland5579 Most of the new EV have a range large enough to last a week of driving to work so it could be charged on the weekend. More and more people work from home.

Nice video. Thanks Biden for the inflation reduction act to help lower the cost of solar technology.

Powerwall 3=9,300. Powerwall 2=8,400. Your math isn’t adding up.

@solarprosteam

6 күн бұрын

A Tesla Powerwall 2 was substantially more expensive than a Powerwall 3. About 35% more.

@AWildBard

6 күн бұрын

did you watch the video? installation times have improved significantly

getting amazing values from china.

When prices go down down down, and fires go up up up. Oh, I'm sorry, it applies to EV's.

@rob1andrews

5 күн бұрын

Good news, fires have not been a problem for years. There have been 457 EV fires since 2012, fires have gone down by two orders of magnitude in the last five years. The ratio of fossil fuel vehicle fires vs. EV vehicles is over 3000 fossil fuels vehicle fires for each EV fire per mile driven. LiFePho batteries used in home storage do not even self ignite so do not cause fires. In fact the number one reason for a storage battery fire is a fossil fuel vehicle fire.

I see you don't serve Nevada...

@solarprosteam

6 күн бұрын

The State of Nevada is the only state requiring home improvement salespeople to be W-2 of the company they represent.

Irritating hand jestures.

@markae0

5 күн бұрын

dont look

@teaohar2

5 күн бұрын

@@markae0 I tried just listening, then I ended the video. Good topic!

hejj car makers have had to stop making electric cars. as nobody wants them. or can afford them. then like in ca the lower grid can not handle the increased load of the power grid. most people get home with in a two hr window. first thing plug in a POP goes the power grid.

@solarprosteam

6 күн бұрын

This is why home batteries will be of such large value to States/Utility companies moving forward, and why States like California are incentivizing homeowners to get them. Less draw/push onto the grid, especially during the later afternoon hours.

Please learn how to pronounce Nevada.