When it comes to God being perfect, I completely agree with Dr. Craig. The issue is that, along with Islam, Christianity does not have a fully accurate description of God. God in the Bible is often angry, violent, punishing and would allow the sacrifice of his perfect son for the wrongdoings of other rebellious and unloving children. This is not loving, nor is it just. God is a far more loving being than how He is portrayed in the Bible. His love is perfect and it is not tainted by emotions of anger, fear or grief, which are all the result of sin and sin is the result of human kind using their will out of harmony with love. God wants that each of us take full responsibility for the use of our sin and to redeem ourselves by repenting and forgiving, which are both emotional processes that need to be done with God. If we refuse to do that, we will be required to experience then full extent of our thoughts, emotions, words and deeds, our compensation (as we sow we will reap) but it will be with the purpose of education, remedy and probationary, not eternal.

@drcraigvideos

8 ай бұрын

Your comment assumes that God's anger, violence, and punishments are divorced from his love, which is a claim that requires justification. Moreover, it begs the question against the retributive principle which seems fundamental to the concept of justice. This would lead to all sorts of terrible and obviously wrong entailments. For example, if the retributive principle is rejected, then the torture of a legally innocent person for the purpose of scaring others away from perpetrating crimes seems justifiable, which is abhorrent. We encourage you to check out Dr. Craig's lessons on the Doctrine of Christ, especially his treatment of the atonement and his defense of the retributive principle and divine penal substitution: www.reasonablefaith.org/podcasts/defenders-podcast-series-3/s3-doctrine-of-christ/doctrine-of-christ-part-8. - RF Admin

@kristijanpavlovic8605

8 ай бұрын

@@drcraigvideos Hi, thanks for responding. I am not making assumptions but am rather stating a truth that I have come to know and understand through observation(of the universe and its laws), experimentation and personal relationship with God. I understand what the Christians believe about the nature of God and about Jesus sacrifice. What I believe, and what has been my experience is that perfect love does not involve anger, punishment, violence, fear or grief. I believe those are all imperfections created by the humans using their will out of harmony with love. Anger is created through a expectation or demand not being met. God has no expectations of us and therefore it is illogical that He would get angry. Anger is also an expression of fear and God is perfect love, which has no fear. God created us and He gave us the gift of free will, why would He then be angry for us using it? It is illogical. I also haven't seen the evidence in the universe or its laws that the motivation behind is driven by anger or the desire for punishment. Jesus also taught that God was different to how people of that time believed Him to be. He did not agree with the concept of an angry or vengeful God that needs to be appeased by sacrifice and someone to be feared. We need to look at how our definition of love (which is not true love) is having negative impacts on people, animals and the environment. One of the examples of errors about love that most of us believe is that love is painful. This is completely false. Love is devoid of pain, and in fact, it has the ability to heal all pain. There are many other errors and distortions in our beliefs about love, what love is, what love feels like and what love does. God's definition of love is far superior to our own and if we want to accept that definition, we need to start connecting to God on a personal level. I have found that the best way to discover what true love is to receive some Love from God, which is possible through our passionate desire and heartfelt longing, and then feel what love really is. My belief is that love does not involve retribution. Instead, it involves compensation, education, mercy, forgiveness, responsibility, correction, repentance and probation. From what I know about God, everything He creates and does is for and with loving intention and retribution (eye for an eye), is not loving. God doesn't allow bad behavior because there are negative consequences on the soul of the person for every sin, sin being defined as a missing the mark of perfect love. I believe God's laws are in action every moment of our lives and they judge us and they deliver compensatory effects to our soul depending on how we are using our will(loving or unloving). The pain and suffering(physical, mental, emotional or spiritual) we experience is the feedback mechanism by which God is educating us in love. The pain is showing us that we are doing or retaining something inside our soul that is out of harmony with love. The purpose of pain and suffering is not punishment but to remedy and educate. God wants to correct us, not condemn us. I do feel that God is just and that each of us are going to get treated fairly. Having an infinite punishment for a finite sin isn't fair or just. A finite compensation, in terms of reaping as we sow, is. Even though the compensation might last for longs periods of time (hundreds or thousands of years), I do believe there is an end to it. EDIT: I would liken God's laws as walls that God put up, for loving reasons. When we try to break those laws, we are, knowingly or unknowingly, bumping against those walls and we experience a painful effect(negative emotions such as: grief, sorrow, guilt, shame, fear...) of our actions(also thoughts, emotions and words). When we work in harmony with the laws, we experience joy, peace and love. So it is not God punishing us as most religions believe, but it is our own usage of will that is creating our personal happiness or unhappiness. God is always trying to steer us in the direction of love, morality and ethics. Pain is a natural consequence of breaking, or to be more precise, of trying to break God's laws. We are completely responsible how we use the gift of free will and therefore, for the pain and suffering we experience in our life. To be clear, we are not responsible for all the pain we have inside us, most of us have been hurt as a child in some way and do need to heal those emotional wounds because they prevent us from desiring a relationship with God, we feel God is going to be like our parents and He is not. He is a far better and loving than any earthly parent could ever be.

@kristijanpavlovic8605

8 ай бұрын

There is also an issue with God being an infinite being and as such having infinite attributes and qualities. If anger was a part of God's nature, then it would have to be infinite anger. What would that look like reflected in the universe(I believe some of God's nature is reflected in the universe, like: intelligence, power, love, precision, design, masculinity & femininity, infinity, logic, mathematics...) I cannot tell, but it seems to me that there is no evidence in reality for such a thing to exist. Also, if God did get angry when we sinned for example, there are billions of people on the earth and billions of people in the spirit world (who I believe can still make a choice to sin) who sin all the time, so He would be angry all the time. All of this doesn't make sense and is not a part of reality, at least of how our life experience tells us. Just to clarify, I believe God has a great aversion to sin, He dislikes it and disagrees with it but does not get angry about it nor does He project that anger towards the sinner. He feels compassion and love towards the sinner and has the desire to help the sinner to remove sin and its causes from within their soul, because He knows that the pain is going to result from indulging in sin. EDIT: I would just like to add to my initial comment that I don't believe any religion(as far as I am aware) has a truly correct portrayal of God, most have some major errors on the subject. For more information about God, I would point to the Divine Truth youtube channel.

@munafghori4052

8 ай бұрын

​@@drcraigvideosI think you should respond to Kristi on his comment. His comment may be false if you could prove it but nonetheless it's has some power in absence of your response to him.

@drcraigvideos

8 ай бұрын

@@kristijanpavlovic8605 There are a lot of claims here, so we'll take them in order: //God has no expectations of us and therefore it is illogical that He would get angry.// How do you know that God has no expectations of us? If Christianity is true, then God does have expectations of us. Christianity is true. Therefore, God does have expectations of us. We are to love one another (John 13:34). We are prohibited from blaspheming the Holy Spirit (Mark 3:28-29). We are prohibited from idolatry (1 Corinthians 10:14). So, if God has expectations of us, then, according to your reasoning, he has reason to be angry when we fail to meet those expectations. //Anger is also an expression of fear and God is perfect love, which has no fear.// This is clearly false. If one's child intentionally refuses to do her homework, one may obviously be angry that she has blatantly rebelled, yet still love her without fear. //God created us and He gave us the gift of free will, why would He then be angry for us using it?// Obviously, because one can misuse a gift. For example, a parent can give a hammer to a child as a gift for building beautiful and useful things. But perhaps the child uses the hammer to kill the family pet. Should the parent not be angry? That seems absurd. //I also haven't seen the evidence in the universe or its laws that the motivation behind is driven by anger or the desire for punishment.// Who suggested this? Certainly not Dr. Craig. //Jesus also taught that God was different to how people of that time believed Him to be. He did not agree with the concept of an angry or vengeful God that needs to be appeased by sacrifice and someone to be feared.// Jesus clearly taught that God has wrath against those who are unfaithful and will destroy them (Matthew 24:36-51). //From what I know about God, everything He creates and does is for and with loving intention and retribution (eye for an eye), is not loving.// You have conflated the retributive principle with God's various intentions for the effects of punishing sin. God punishes sin because those who sin deserve punishment. But sometimes the punishment brings about repentance and eventual restoration, which is God's will. However, there are some who, though punished, do not and will not repent. But God does nothing wrong in punishing them anyway since the fact that they did wrong entails that they deserve to be punished. //Having an infinite punishment for a finite sin isn't fair or just.// First, rejecting Jesus is plausibly a sin of infinite proportion, since it is the very rejection of God himself, who is infinitely holy. Second, there are models of hell in which those who are condemned continually receive punishment because they continually sin, not because they are receiving infinite punishment for a finite sin. //So it is not God punishing us as most religions believe, but it is our own usage of will that is creating our personal happiness or unhappiness.// Again, this begs the question against the truth of Christianity, which clearly and unequivocally teaches that God punishes sinners (Isaiah 13:11; Revelation 20:11-15; Mark 16:16; Hebrews 13:4, etc.). However, God's anger towards sin and punishment of sinners is not incompatible with God's essentially loving nature. For as we also read, "but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8) //He is a far better and loving than any earthly parent could ever be.// Yes. - RF Admin

Dr. Crag's jizya tax rate just got raised because of this video.

@JScholastic

8 ай бұрын

😂

@Woodsbilley

8 ай бұрын

😂

@DarkArcticTV

8 ай бұрын

😂

@Meek528

3 ай бұрын

Do you know that in islam there is a version of jesus that will come to break the cross and remove jizya meaning there will be forced conversion 🤺😶, just airing out some dirty laundries

Dr. Craig is not a maximally great being, but he sure is _a_ great being. 😊

@melchior2678

8 ай бұрын

I can agree with that

@melchior2678

8 ай бұрын

Nevertheless, none is greater than Allah.

With all due respect to Dr Craig as an ex muslim I doubt such arguments would actually work on muslims because as muslims we were taught allah just does whatever he wants and we cannot expect God to act in a way that we can understand. Allah just does whatever, sends whomever he wants to hell or heaven, guids whomever he wants etc. Everyone is just living on his whim. Even abu bakr is reported to have said even if I had one foot in heaven I wouldn't be sure if I go to heaven or not because of deception of allah. If the greatest companion of Muhammad didn't know what about the rest

@prime_time_youtube

8 ай бұрын

Interesting

8 ай бұрын

The criticism is in the context of a maximally great being. God is the greatest conceivable being. Being all loving is greater than being partially loving (like the Muslim god is). Therefore, as WLC puts it, the Muslim god is morally defective

@smalltownhomesteadAC

8 ай бұрын

What do you think would work? What worked on you? And without intending offence, what a horrifying God. Sounds a lot more like a psychopathic human. How on earth can we reach Muslims? No wonder they seem angry all the time.

@FTerrasson

8 ай бұрын

I know 3 ex-Muslims (yes, that's not many, I know) who say that what brought them to Christ was realizing that there is love and perfect love in Christ and not in Allah, so this argument seems to work for some people.

@sturmgewehr4471

8 ай бұрын

@@FTerrasson Maybe they are western muslims who have been culturally influenced by Christianity? Regardless I do believe that it will work on some Muslims

Praise God for Dr. Craig.

@Hola-ro6yv

8 ай бұрын

He is a legend among apologists.

Dr Craig has stated in the past that he doesn't believe the God Muslims worship is the same God Christians worship. So essentially not God at all.

الله اكبر ALLAH Akber .. in arabic mean God is greater .. completely different concept of Christian understanding of God is great... i am arabophone..

Perfect Being Theology is why I affirm apokatastasis. The God who never stops loving and pursuing his creatures is greater than the god who throws the majority of human beings in the garbage.

Utter nonsense there are a few verses in the bible that state God doesnt like certain individuals. It doesnt make sense God loving everyone. If your God loves Hitler then we definitely worship different Gods.

@kemest6666

8 ай бұрын

Which verses?

@zacka9438

8 ай бұрын

@@kemest6666 Malachi says, “I have loved Jacob but Esau I have hated.” Psalm 5:5 tell us that “You hate all [people] who do wrong.” Do you see how these fake preachers/pastors lie?

@kemest6666

8 ай бұрын

@@zacka9438 God loved Jacob and hated Esau in the sense that he accepted Jacob(and his descendants) and rejected Esau(and his descendants). You got to always keep in mind that when God says he hates a particular group or individual he means that he rejects this group, he doesn't hate them personally. It's anthropomorphic language.

@kemest6666

8 ай бұрын

@@zacka9438 there are stuff in the Bible like God remembering or God forgetting stuff, that doesn't mean God isn't omniscient, it means that God is taking action to the stuff he didn't take actions to.

@zacka9438

8 ай бұрын

@@kemest6666 That's the thing I don't have a problem with that but this guy speaking is acting as if God is all loving and accepts everything and everyone when that is clearly not the case. He misrepresented Christianity and Islam.

I'm an ex Muslim for five years, I've been following a voice within me and on march 9 2024, that voice lead me to a sermon that explained the holy spirit and everything that i encountered with the voice was the holy spirit, so i downloaded the bible and read was jesus was saying and i found god that i always imagined if he exist he would be unconditional love, but i still don't know why now did god came to me 🙏🕊️

*_The all-morally loving God sends his son to be crucified by His own creation._*

@jesuschristsaves9067

8 ай бұрын

Yea

@melchior2678

8 ай бұрын

Basically

@gomez3357

3 ай бұрын

That shows how much he loved us. Allah sent a pedophile for the world

Why does dr Craig believe that God hating his creation is inconsistent with his perfect being theology. He did not mention it. If Dr Craig provides reasons for his belief about God hating and perfect being theology then Muslims can respond.

I suppose a Quran defender could argue that an all-loving god is not morally superior, thus retaining maximal greatness. I wonder what the difficulties of that position would be.

@szilveszterforgo8776

8 ай бұрын

Why wouldn't an all-loving god be morally superior?

@melchior2678

8 ай бұрын

That's exactly the position I would argue.

@melchior2678

8 ай бұрын

@@szilveszterforgo8776 because love is not always objectively good.

@szilveszterforgo8776

8 ай бұрын

@@melchior2678 Oh I see now. What moral value could a muslim place higher than love?

@christianprinceears4653

7 ай бұрын

@@szilveszterforgo8776 my guess is mercy

I strongly disagree with Dr. Craig here. Allah's lack of omnibenevolence is far from a "moral defect" as Craig puts it, it is part of what makes Allah great. Not every individual is deserving of God's divine love, and even Christians agree whether or not they like to admit it; otherwise they wouldn't be OK with the doctrine of eternal damnation.

@ioioiotu

8 ай бұрын

So omnibenevolence would actually be a moral defect ?

@ionictheist349

8 ай бұрын

God loves everyone regardless of what they are and what they do. God can not hate its not part of him. GOD is love (God doesnt have the ability to love bc he is love its self). God is not a punisher, he has the ability to punish. You have to know the difference between to become and to be able to do.

@ioioiotu

8 ай бұрын

@@hydepark1382 Ah yes, god died for us yet god lives forever. Just one of the self-contradictions of christianity.

@ioioiotu

8 ай бұрын

@@ionictheist349 Wouldn't that make some humans morally superior, as they have free will and can choose to love or hate, while god has no choice but to love and therefore has no merit ?

@melchior2678

8 ай бұрын

@@hydepark1382 Yes, I have heard this central claim, many times in fact, but nevertheless, treating people in a way they don't deserve to be treated does not make one great.

If the God of Christian is so loving, then why eternal hell for disbelievers???

God is also maximally just And it's not just that we're punished for the sin of Adam nor is it just that a criminal and a saint are treated the same before God. Of course sainthood or criminality is wholly dependent on your personal context that God put you in. But without distinguishing between these two sides (good vs evil) then where is God's goal that you constantly mention of God wanting to create beings similar to him?

If the muslim god is morally defective, the Christian god is also morally defective, since they both punish sinners to eternal damnation, which isn’t very loving. It is not morally defective of either gods to not love those who perpetually transgress. However, the muslim god, and Im not sure but I believe the Christian god also, are again and again reiterated to be merciful in that they love those who repent

God is a maximally great being. Jesus is not a maximally great being. Therefore, Jesus is not God.

@user-ei9ns9hq6b

8 ай бұрын

THIS ! Mind BLOWN. Would love to see the objection to THIS

God in Islam is one not divided to three’s, our relationship with god start with from individual directly to god without intermediary 😊

@clementkeating2311

7 ай бұрын

Then why do you pray to Mohammed in Islam?

@michealbadman6411

7 ай бұрын

We don't. It's haram. @@clementkeating2311

@hmb8801

3 ай бұрын

​@@clementkeating2311 we don't . Praying for Muhammad not to him.

This just a couple weeks before defending the genocide in the Old Testament

WLC is one of the best scoundrels out there monetizing the religious fools.

This might cause me to get downvoted or cancelled, but Allah often sounds more like Satan or at least a pagan god like Zeus or somesuch (e.g. not "loving" anyone unless they first "love" him, arguably intentionally deceiving others without reasonable warrant). Edit: For example, see William Lane Craig's Reasonable Faith podcast, "Two Experts on the Resurrection", where William Lane Craig states (starting at approximately 19:50): "Any purported miracle in favor of a doctrine that is inherently immoral or unethical cannot be a genuine miracle. And so that's the tip off to when Mike Licona says 'I don't like Islam.' What he's talking about is that this religion, as I've argued, has a morally defective concept of God. A god is who is not all-loving, whose love is partial, whose love has to be earned and merited before he will give it, a god whose love is not unconditional. And so I think that the god of Islam or the religion of Islam is inherently morally defective and therefore no amount of miraculous evidence could go to prove it's true."

@vanquishrocha

8 ай бұрын

Funny to think about because Muhammad himself revealed a message from Satan

@Hola-ro6yv

8 ай бұрын

That’s not true. Please be more respectful to the beliefs of other as you would expect others to be respectful of your beliefs.

@pattube

8 ай бұрын

@@Hola-ro6yv For example, please see Al Fadi as well as Rob Christian on the topic. Granted, both of them are often too caustic for me, often more belligerent than I would prefer to see, and I don't agree with everything they've said, but nevertheless there have some intriguing insights now and again. And, again, even if you don't agree with them, even among Muslims vs. ex-Muslims, there's been debate about what or who inspired Muhammad and the Quran. Others like David Wood, Nabeel Qureshi, and Robert Spencer have alluded (not explicitly but implicitly) to similar things.

@pattube

8 ай бұрын

​​@@----f 1. Ironically your tone isn't respectful, even though you expect respect. 2. If you're talking about apologetics in general, then yes WLC is definitely the better apologist in comparison to the people I mentioned. 3. But in terms of Islam, people like Robert Spencer, David Wood, and the late Nabeel Qureshi are better than WLC.

@pattube

8 ай бұрын

@@----f 1. You're sorely mistaken. You said I was "blindly following" these apologists. You don't know what I've read and watched and studied with regard to Robert Spencer and Nabeel Qureshi and David Wood, yet assume and assert I'm "blindly following" them. That's disrespectful. Instead you could've simply said something else like "you're mistaken and here are the reasons why". That'd be more respectful than simply declaring I'm "blindly following" them without argument or evidence. 2. Anyway I can't reason with the unreasonable which is what you appear to be based on your replies to me thus far. You should read and study the material of people like the ones I've already mentioned to you instead of making tendentious assertions and engaging in personal attacks. That's all I can do with you. You're free to have the last word if you wish. And I'll leave it to the reasonable-minded to judge between what I've said and what you've said.

With due respect, why is it then non Christians will go to hell if Gods love is unconditional in your sense of the term. Jesus(pbuh) was not son of God but a Prophet. May God guide us to the right path.

@jeffreyjdesir

8 ай бұрын

Why did Mohammed take a child bride and have sex with her? Be honest with yourself and scripture...

@smalltownhomesteadAC

8 ай бұрын

You can ask the same of Allah of course. Technically non-christians can get to heaven, you are not condemned for not being Christian. However, the best analogy would be, who has more chance of succeeding in life, the child who has a loving parent and follows that parent, or the child who does not have a parent. The only unforgivable sin is hardening your heart to God, as you are simply choosing to go it alone. Most will end up in purgatory which could take a really long time to work through. This is Catholic btw. Protestants get this one wrong.

@smalltownhomesteadAC

8 ай бұрын

Jesus was God. Not a son in the sense you are probably thinking. But if he was a prophet, what did he prophesize during his lifetime, that was then later on said to come true?

@farazahmad7229

8 ай бұрын

@@smalltownhomesteadAC what an irony No earlier prophets taught this concept of holy trinity and suddenly came a Prophet of God and taught this stuff. Woe. Really? I think trinity came into force after council of nicea. There were jewish Christians called ebonites who believed Jesus as a prophet.

@farazahmad7229

8 ай бұрын

@@smalltownhomesteadAC we muslims don't believe that God is all loving only and try to allure people but in doing so forgetting the consequences it will have. We believe God has infinite attributes and we are subject to God, a man does not go to heaven or hell because the man has performed certain actions but by God's will and grace.

That argument doesn’t make any sense. The possible truth of Islam is not contingent upon whether we personally like its characterization of God. That is, it’s possible that Islam is true and that a maximally good being is not all-loving. We may misunderstand what it means to be maximally good.

@Tobi_237

8 ай бұрын

Ironically, you’re the one making an incoherent argument here. How could a maximally great being NOT be all loving? I’m not sure you comprehend maximal greatness.

@jackplumbridge2704

8 ай бұрын

"The possible truth of Islam is not contingent upon whether we personally like its characterization of God." - Craig never made any such claim. "That is, it’s possible that Islam is true and that a maximally good being is not all-loving. We may misunderstand what it means to be maximally good." - Your response to the argument does not entail that Craig's response "makes no sense". All you are doing here is raising and objection to Craig's point, you have done nothing to show his point is incoherent. Furthermore, your objection would entail a complete skepticism as to our own moral knowledge. If we take seriously the idea that we can't know if love is good, then we can't know if anything is good or evil. Love being good is the most obvious moral fact we are aware of. You also haven't done anything to show either that love is not morally good, or that we don't know or can't know that love is morally good. So as objections go, I have to say, this is one of the worst you could have presented in response to Craig's point. Edit: Oh, also, in Islam people are criticised for not loving Allah and doing as he commands, and Islam teaches that Allah only loves those who love him. Both of these things imply that being loved by Allah and loving Allah are good things. So to claim that love is not good would simply render Islam false, as love is considered a good in Islam, even if it is a restricted good.

@Basilisk4119

8 ай бұрын

​@@Tobi_237Agreed

@jeff_costello

8 ай бұрын

​@@Tobi_237what's your definition of (All loving)? because to me an all loving being doesn't mean that he doesn't punish even the christian God punishes his creatures in fact Dr Craig soundd more like an atheist here highlighting the problem of evil.

@omnitone

8 ай бұрын

@@Tobi_237how are we defining maximal greatness? if maximal greatness is defined by the maximally great being, then we have a circular problem. if it is not, than the being isn't maximally great ._.

Allah is the best deceiver

@Hola-ro6yv

8 ай бұрын

You misspelled Lucifer

@Salam12642

8 ай бұрын

@@Hola-ro6yv you Jiin in the Quran

@Hola-ro6yv

8 ай бұрын

@@Salam12642 How dare you call me that? Clearly you know nothing of what you speak. Grow up and learn respect.

@Salam12642

8 ай бұрын

@@Hola-ro6yv i didn't disrespect you. I just said. Jinn in the Quran? Isn't it ? Quran is satanic words? Isn't it? That is why I left Islam Because Jesus is true God and he is alive God. He spoke to me Amen

I see similarities with the God of the Old Testament. A true Muhammadan would never compare Allah to a Jewish God. Only Jesus as a Prophet can tie Christianity to the Muslim beliefs.

Allah isnt deficient in love, his love is eternal and the evil doers are not deserving of his love.

@gomez3357

3 ай бұрын

How can anyone be deserving of Gods love if Gods standard of Good is perfection? That’s why we need an all loving God. Because although we don’t deserve his love he still loves us cause he’s maximally loving

Gosh. That idea of beliteling God is not exclusive of Muslims. You can find it anywhere. And the irony is that if you take the concept of god instead of God, you already belitled Him. That even a faithfull muslim can retort as an answer. Convert to Jesus.

Boom. Roasted.

The pot calling the kettle deficient. First make your concept of God coherent.

It is lol.

Actually the Muslim saying he used means Allah is greater, he is not great.

@Basilisk4119

8 ай бұрын

No it doesn't. It means "God is most great"

@sturmgewehr4471

8 ай бұрын

Greater than what ?

@kennethanderson8770

8 ай бұрын

@@Basilisk4119 do a google search the real meaning is Allah is greater but since the Arabic language is flexible it could mean Allah is greatest. But the general consensus is the first. Just another way imams either don’t know Islam or lie about it.

@kennethanderson8770

8 ай бұрын

@@sturmgewehr4471 I would argue nothing because he’s not real made up by satan but Islam does not say because they always misquote it.

@arefinkamal7654

8 ай бұрын

​@@sturmgewehr4471 greater than anything you can conceive of.