Thank you for having our CEO on the podcast to discuss the Alice Camera. We really enjoyed the conversation and I'm glad you were interested in learning more about it. We hope that our conversation will help people to learn more about the Alice Camera and how it can be used to create social-media first content!

@MyFriendlyPup

7 ай бұрын

How will you compete with stabilized m43 cameras that use IBIS? Shooting on Alice feels like using a Lumix G9 with no stabilization. If you add IBIS id buy your camera Sir.

@unbroken1010

7 ай бұрын

Do the camera only work with a smart phone? Just started it. Will watch more later

@onchky

5 ай бұрын

I hope you wouldn't ban people raising uncomfortable questions on social media

I apologize for beating a dead horse, as I mentioned this in Micro Four Nerds' video on the Alice Camera (as well as a few times on AC's IG posts), but they are really making a mistake releasing this without a user-replaceable battery. All of the future-proofing firmware updates won't mean a thing if the unit can't stay powered on because the battery degraded over time. And although a sealed-in rechargeable battery seems fine initially, no rechargeable battery lasts forever (and the popularity of third party battery brands like Wasabi Power proves that). I really want Alice Camera to be a success, but I just want to know that they're actually taking the longevity of their hardware (not to mention sustainability) as seriously as their software plans.

@snappiness

7 ай бұрын

I think that's a fair criticism, and something I hope they account for in future planning and models

"Hello and welcome to Happy Snappin'" made me smile right away. The name is perfect

Samsung kind of started doing this then just stopped. Great interview. Vishal should go on Tony & Chelsea podcast as they were talking about Sony doing this for the future

@SteveMorton

7 ай бұрын

Tony has been wanting something like this for years.

Current Isuues with the Alice Camera: 1. While they are taking more pre-orders, they have NOT been able fullfill their pre-order commitments for more than 2 years. Even though in their own words they are having regulatory and manufacturing issues which haven't been solved yet, they are still taking even more pre-orders. 2. Mobile camera tech is catching up very fast ever since the 1 inch sensor integration and computational photography is integrated with with AI features in the chipsets used in the mobile.

Great talk, found it quite insightful. The team behind this clearly seems passionate and I genuinely wish them the best. It's really nice to see that they are willing to open up their platform to others and that it is Linux based (being a Linux nerd and all). It does remind me of the previous attempt Sony made with, was it the NX1? Interesting stuff for sure. Though, I have to say that I do have some questions that remain unanswered. In no particular order : First, you say that the ISPs and the chipsets or SoCs in use by the traditional camera makers are old, underpowered and rather inflexible. I'm not saying your wrong, but there does seem to have been some massive improvements in recent years. Likewise, some of the capabilities of newer cameras are nothing to scoff at especially the higher end models. Some now boast 8k60 raw internal video recording with no crop, AI based autofocus systems, have really impressive low light and noise reduction built in, etc. Some, like Nikon, have also updated bodies so much after release it is basically a whole new product. As for white balance, your approach seems quite involved and will no doubt deliver very good results. Though, I personally can't think of the last time I've had auto white balance issues in the last decade, be it with smartphones or dedicated cameras. Second, a huge reason to use dedicated cameras as you likely know are the oft better ergonomics. I haven't held the Alice camera in my hand so I won't be passing any judgement yet. It would be interesting if you described in more detail how you dealt with this challenge and how it culminated in the current design. Furthermore, vlogers and content creators, often complain about the lack of a flip screen on some of the current offerings. Yours doesn't seem to include one? Will you be selling something like it as an accessory? Third, it is quite reassuring to know that third parties will have the ability to make use of the hardware as it indeed makes it that much more dependable, especially as a professional backup cam. I have to wonder though, will you also offer the app outside of storefronts like Google Play, as an APK or through another independent store? I have had far too many perfectly functional apps killed off by google or apple because they hadn't been updated enough or because of guideline changes. This has made them rather untrustworthy in my eyes. Fourth, while you do seem to have thought this out quite well, how do you intend to convince people to migrate to your platform? The more "hardcore" market, while not impossible to capture, has traditionally been very loyal to their preferred brand. A lot of smartphone users, on the other hand, seem perfectly content with the output of today's devices. Curious how you intend to tackle the market or what kind of approach you think could be most effective. Finally, you say this could be another big paradigm shift in the industry, fair enough, but it looks somewhat exaggerated. Not in its significance, because it is significant, but in the difficulty for established players to change, rethink their existing camera tech and adapt to new market opportunities. A lot of the RnD has, in a way, already been paid for (On-sensor autofocus, metering, better sensitivity, dynamic range, better compact sensors, etc.). If you do create a new market segment, how do you intend to keep your newfound lead, against companies who will undoubtedly respond sooner or later. Anyways, that was way too long. I probably should have shortened that whole thing down but, ehh🤷‍♂️ it is awesome to see you're pushing the field forward. I'll have to keep my eyes on this in the future. (P.s forgive the mistakes, I don't write in English often)

Thank you for this conversion and sharing this information,

Just followed the new podcast on my podcast app. Thanks James!

@snappiness

7 ай бұрын

Thanks for the support! I have lots of good people coming up in future episodes :) Let me know if there's someone you want to hear from, or have questions

While I do not (yet) have an Alice camera, I have created a flickr Alice Camera Group. I set the group up 3 years ago and am still awaiting my first images. I have linked this interview to the group description.

Very cool! I am backer from the start and yes it's a long time, but one can and have to understand, if someone has the balls to challenge the camera industry, it will take time. I mainly used my iPhone for my KZread stuff, due to ease of use (editing on the phone...) but since a while I sue a Sony A7C because of the way nice IQ. Yet more hassle for me. So I always saw the Alice (for me David who is challenging Goliath) as the perfect tool. I just wish they would replace the two phone clamps on the back with a holder which can directly swivel up, so I dont have to mount the phone on a cold show mounted extra phone holder when I film myself. But maybe in the future there will be an upgrade. overall I am very excited and proud of the Alice team, which faced and challenged already so many issues. Well done

@thealicecamera

7 ай бұрын

Thanks Armin! You been an excellent supporter of the Alice Camera since the beginning and thank you for the kind comment! We can't wait to deliver the camera to you and see what content you'll make!

@snappiness

7 ай бұрын

Cool! I hope you can get the camera in your hands soon, that's a long time to wait! Sounds like a perfect use case for you.

Thanks for this video, I’m one of the original investors from three years ago, and its been a difficult wait at times as the company hasn’t always been quick to keep us updated, so this in-depth interview has been great. I am very excited now and looking forward to getting the Alice camera. On facebook I’ve been a vocal critic of Alice, purely based on their inability to give us consistent and regular updates. My criticism is based on two factors from my experience as a psychologist and as a person, who many years ago, had a career in retail communication. The single most effective way of keeping your customers happy is by always keeping them informed, especially when there are delays and technical problems. People are willing to wait and forgive a lot if only they are kept abreast of all aspects of the journey. Better late than never as the saying goes, however, I do hope that Alice et al keep pumping out the updates, whether good or bad, as its always better to know something than live in an information vacuum. From thus interview I feel much more informed and I now feel able to congratulate the Alice team on all their hard work, the future for Alice camera looks very exciting, and I can’t wait to get mine and start creating.

@snappiness

6 ай бұрын

I hope you get it soon then, that's a loooong wait!

I was wondering if you were going to talk about this camera since it’s going to me mostly open source software and I remember you liking that sort of idea. Instantly remembered you when I saw MicroFourNerds video on it. It’s definitely an interesting camera but probably not for someone like me. Probably but we’ll see 😂

@thealicecamera

7 ай бұрын

Thank you for the kind comment, Danny!

@snapiness ... I'm more interested in this than the Pixii, and have just watched the @Micro Four Thirds Nerds video on the Alice with great interest. Whilst I don't feel the need for Ai in my camera, but love the idea of being able to use my M43 lenses, and older lenses whilst utilising my mobile devices.

@thealicecamera

7 ай бұрын

Thank you for the kind comment! :)

@snappiness

7 ай бұрын

M4/3 lenses are so underrated. They are great! It's a great system to build on.

@fthprodphoto-video5357

7 ай бұрын

M43 is probably the best digital format out there. Small lightweight with superb 1.2 and 1.4 lens choices. Combine it with a super processor and smart real time HDR (not tone mapping but high dynamic range) video and photo, extreme fast speed processing and stacking, a new sensor with superb color and texture reproduction, and we will end up with a perfect digital camera setup.

@kiwipics

4 ай бұрын

​@@thealicecamera ... My pleasure, and I'll be looking into your product. I hope you don’t mind me asking, but do you use any components or tools provided by RS Components, as this is the sort of product or project that RS likes to cover in their media projects ?

Is there a place I could listen off KZread?

@snappiness

7 ай бұрын

It's currently on many of the popular podcasting sites, like Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Look for "Happy Snappin' ". If it's not there, let me know the place and I'll add it! There's a billion podcast sites it seems like!

@gotja

7 ай бұрын

@@snappinessdone!

Great video....

huge first get for the pod ! and those three or four pixels of James looked great ! 😅

@snappiness

7 ай бұрын

haha! Thanks!

I hope these would work with the four thirds lenses with adapter.

The concept is great, but let me point out the obvious problems: It's as big as a small mirrorless camera. It's $1200USD. Utilising phone tech makes it inherently disposable. It's less convenient than a camera. It limits the use of the phone. It relies heavily on software which ties a lot of functionality to the survival of the company. I really hate to be cynical, but at the end of the day it's an inconvenient camera that makes your phone less useable, and will likely end up sitting in a draw collecting dust in 3 years after redundancy kicks in. I can potentially see a market for people using this as a bridge to more professional and expensive equipment, but it's not priced for that market.

Great video! Why isn’t Alice full frame? Is there room in the market for apsc now?

@snappiness

7 ай бұрын

I didn't get to that question to get their take on why they picked m4/3, but my hunch is: Size, cost, M4/3 is a mount open for people to join, M4/3 has great lenses. For a camera marketed as a next step from phones, m4/3 still offers a huge jump. I do think the question about APSC in-between M4/3 and FF is a good question. Especially as FF gets cheaper and so small nowadays, and M4/3 really is quite good.

@thealicecamera

7 ай бұрын

Thanks for your question! Alice Camera uses the Micro Four Thirds lens mount because it is a (relatively) open standard, it is the most compact of the popular professional systems both in terms of lens size, lens weight and camera thickness, and there is an extraordinary variety of lenses available at a vast range of costs, focal lengths and speeds. One of our core beliefs is that many (though not all) of the disadvantages of the MFT system compared to full-frame systems can be compensated for using computational techniques at a lower cost and weight.

@TheNewArtSchool

7 ай бұрын

Thank you! Thats a great answer! I sold my APSC camera 15 years ago for full frame and have never looked back. Also it seems that full frame is growing in popularity especially since they are now getting even more affordable. @@snappiness

@TheNewArtSchool

7 ай бұрын

Thank you for the swift reply! Do you think there will be a full frame Alice in the future?@@thealicecamera

@forewarnedfilm

7 ай бұрын

@@thealicecamera Thank you for giving more background & insight into the Alice Camera. You've alluded to the the idea that computational techniques could narrow the performance gap between MFT & full-frame (something I've seen mentioned on your website). My background is in filmmaking, and currently use MFT cameras, so I am very interested in developments that improve the sensor's dynamic range. Is this something that you feel you've been able to improve (or will be able to in future?). And how video-focussed do you see Alice becoming - for example tools to assist in nailing correct exposure (be that AI-controlled, and/or more manual-centred)?

I think it's kind of daunting, when you have to open an app to take a snapshot, no?

For small commercials products maybe ok if cheaper than other point and shoot cameras, for pro video and photography it's a no go

@snappiness

7 ай бұрын

This particularly camera is targeted more at those transitioning from smartphones. The underlying technology though could be used in pro level cameras using different body, sensor, without the smartphone etc. I don't know if they plan to take on that market though, at least not now. Which makes sense.

What is to stop google or apple or samsung etc. from offering smartphones with bigger sensors in the future, that seems to be the trend in action cameras anyway and smartphones already have the AI processing down. Seems that thats the only thing Alive is offering... a bigger sensor

lol at using General Motors as an example of being late to the electric car. How in the world is there a tech guy who doesn't know about the EV1? 22:45

Ain't gonna use it anyway, nothing beats a real camera in your hands

Im not Sold on this alice Camera ive Love CCD Thats besides the point ! My point is ive just got the Pixel 8 pro And im telling you The pics are So good and i mean so good What can the Alice camera even improve my Phones Cmos sensor ?

@kuyans3889

4 ай бұрын

I think it's about the shallow depth of field, image quality and dynamic range of a larger sensor. Obviously phones are pretty good when it comes to image quality, but some people might want more.

I have no interest in anything AI. I have no interest in using a cell phone as a camera or anything dependent on a cell phone.

I mean, it’s a cool concept, but the entire iPhone itself costs about $1300, so I’m not sure why anyone would spend $1300 on just an accessory. A well-kept used Sony A7III costs about $1200 so…why would anyone be interested in this?

God! I hope it’s not the future of photography! Talk about taking all the fun out of photography. I like cameras because I want to get away from my cell phone not be around it more. I would leave digital photography and go back to film if this was the standard. So I hope this becomes a kind of format for certain people instead of a standard in all cameras

@theothertonydutch

7 ай бұрын

Came here to say this, lol.

@WhoIsSerafin

7 ай бұрын

@@theothertonydutch yes I did. I actually wish them success, I just don’t want this to be the standard to replace a traditional style camera

@snappiness

7 ай бұрын

@@WhoIsSerafin It's not a camera that immediately appeals to me either from a photographic standpoint. You know me, I'm still clinging to my DSLRs. I actually really like physical buttons and dials, not less of them (hah!) But I am excited about the potential the underlying technology has, which could be applied to a totally different setup of a camera. From a different use-case this camera does appeal to me if it makes making YT content easier. I get joy out of the photography part, but the filming can be a pain sometimes. I'm such a newb when it comes to video.

@ggerhart

7 ай бұрын

Backer here! The delays have not been great and I don't feel like there is a solid delivery date, but hoping it's soon, it looks awesome!

1:08 "Ive been to all these places overrun by zombies/locust (tourists) and I did the THING with the thing (took photos presumably, like the rest of the hord), I therefore know stuff and am educated in fine art, also I have internet followers, which gives my voice further credibility. I'm also a social scientist, which means I do a lot of talking about AI (to grow my brand)...therefore I know even more stuff!" I'm not touching anything this AI hustle bro does. Beware of scam.

@JackDavis-dv6ef

7 ай бұрын

@kalinmir you're a miserable, malicious individual aren't you?

@nikoladimitrijevic8172

7 ай бұрын

My s22 ultra keeps missing the white balance but three charlatans walking around with a color checker will solve it. Our AI is better than those SCIENTIFIC methods used by large firms... sure. I totally agree with you. This reeks of fraud wrapped in AI buzz words. I'll eat my pants if I'm wrong.

@kalinmir

7 ай бұрын

@@JackDavis-dv6ef why? I smell fraud and AI voodoo I say it to warn others...whats malicious about that

@kalinmir

6 ай бұрын

​@@johngyorki2569disapeared by KZread most likely....visible when displaying "newest"

A camera for people who aren't serious about photography- but want something more serious than their phone cam? But it still uses their phone? Seems a really really really niche market. Best of luck to them... they're going to need it.

And yeah, things are gonna be even more messed up, if your dumbphone receive a call when you shooting...

Sony and Olympus have already gone down this route and both have been discontinued.

@snappiness

7 ай бұрын

I think you're referring to using the smartphone as a controller with the Olympus air 01 and the Sony qx series. I didn't dive into asking him why they chose that route. I'm guessing so that users have a familiarity of using their phone, since the target audience is those transitioning off of smartphones. The technology I thought was more interesting and could be applied to different camera form factors would be the processor it's using and the image pipeline software in the camera itself, where you could potentially apply some really helpful processing very quickly right there on the camera.

@daveinportland

7 ай бұрын

Appreciate the reply @@snappiness My main issue is the lag that is a part of the process of being wirelessly connected (I'm sure it's better now than Sony's QX line (that was brutal)). At $1,200 a person would be smarter to just buy a dedicated camera with faster auto-focus and faster startup. The time and hassle to pull out the camera, (re)connect it wirelessly, make any adjustments (again lag will be present), and then happily snap the photo seems like the novelty will wear off sooner rather than later. The open source part of Alice's system is fantastic. It's the one thing that is missing in pretty much all cameras these days. Sony already has their foot in the door for computational photography as they are in the smartphone market. They are a special niche but if you know what you want and what you are doing Sony's phones are pretty amazing. You mentioned lack of support for camera (products) sliders as the company goes out of business or just stops supporting the product and I totally agree. I was one of the first with the DXO One (anyone remember it). It was fun to go through the ups/downs of a new product line and then in what felt like a week later they stopped making/selling/supporting the camera. Back to price, one can get a flagship smartphone, a Sony RX100m7, the (also) Sony a6100 (for nearly half the price), or a ZV-E10 (2/3 of the cost). Canon/Nikon also have options that are anywhere from as low as half the cost. All in all I enjoyed this interview and the content you put out on your channel. I (and many others I'm certain) thank you for your work.

@molybdnum

7 ай бұрын

Yes. IMHO - Alice is an Olympus Air but with unproven promises of software. An Air A01 will run you $200-250, so if you want to test-drive the concept of a phone-driven M43 system start there and wait for the Alice software to prove itself out before you jump in. I think if this succeeds it probably won't be because of the clip-your-smartphone-on approach, as that is exactly what didn't succeed with Sony and Olympus. If the software is the killer feature I'd bet v2.0 is just an m43 sensor and mount attached permanently to mid-tier android phone display and internals like the Samsung Galaxy Camera.

@onchky

5 ай бұрын

@@snappiness IMO it's way too large and expensive to target anyone in transition off of smartphones.

AI is disruptive. Will make DSLRs insane. Phones are updated more often than cameras. Hardware leaps annually not every 4yrs. Alice uses digital stabilization which is huge backward step for m43 shooters of GH5 and onward via IBIS.

@snappiness

7 ай бұрын

I think digital stabilization is really good nowadays, but it still has it's limitations. Especially in lower light situations. The crop can also be annoying. I think for reasons like that, IBIS will always need to exist. At least for the foreseeable future.

@MyFriendlyPup

7 ай бұрын

​@@snappinessi use IBIS, digital also, gimbal and i have lumix lens stabilization. The sample footage ive seen looks exactly like a GH4 in terms of camera shake.

Nope, definitely not a future of cameras or photography. It's another one trashcan project. Modern smartphones are already equipped with a nice sensors. And of course, AI could imitate typical lens image in the way that satisfacts 99% of customers. Recently I found that mid-range Samsung can imitate distorted bokeh of soviet Helios 44-2. Or CZ Jena Biotar 2/58 T, nevermind. If your are not addicted pixel-peeper, you didn't get the difference. And you guys are planning to sell the incomplete device that depends on another one. Sounds creepy.

No, the future of Phone cameras are larger 1 inch sensors with many lenses and extremely good smart features.DXO already made a wonderful 1 inch spy camera that you could attach to your phone acting like a viewfinder but this project never worked. I got 2 of these and the pictures are surprisingly good. But it’s a niche product. Nobody wants detaching parts in his pockets and bag.