Apparently, truing your dope is a lost art

Cool ! Unlike the old chronographs, you can easily protect this one with a steel target which would block a stray shot. I have a Garmin, and I STILL can't get over how small it is, lol.

@Nickrioblanco1

5 ай бұрын

I think the steel would cause problems with the radar reflections. I am going to try a couple of blocks of 4×4 treated wood after hunting season and I don't have anything fun to do.

@GetMeThere1

5 ай бұрын

@@Nickrioblanco1 The steel will be BEHIND the functioning area of the radar. It won't make a difference.

@whliving

Ай бұрын

@@GetMeThere1have you had the opportunity to see if this works? I don’t know why it wouldn’t, but as a practical exercise it would be nice to know.

@GetMeThere1

Ай бұрын

@@whliving I haven't. But since the Garmin doesn't work by detecting sound (like the RadarLab does), it should work fine. As I understand it, the Garmin works simply by constantly checking for a bullet going away (i.e., something going within the speed range you set).

@whliving

Ай бұрын

@@GetMeThere1 - I considering picking one up. I have been using a Caldwell for the past 10yrs and have been satisfied with its performance. I was never overly concerned how precise it reads, but more concerned if it is providing consistent readings (since I verify at distance). So, when I’m going to test some ammo I would fire some known velocity ammo through it and then fire my loads. As I said, it works, but the last two times I have gone to chrono some loads for a new .308 towards the end of the session it started reading inaccurately (low 2300s to highs of 3700+). It’s very frustrating while trying to finish my load development. Therefore, I’m thinking of spending the substantial money. I have been waiting for the new lab radar and Caldwell to get released and reviewed to see if they have any advantages but the Garmin appears to do what I need it to do. Any thoughts?

Another great vid mate, thanks. Be interesting to compare the down range reading from the Garmin against the corresponding Labradar reading for the same distance. (I've always wondered if there is a standard calibration procedure that you could check readings against to know the level of accuracy of any chrono?)

If you know the muzzle velocity, and the ballistic coefficient of the projectile, you can look up the downrange velocity at any range on the ballistic charts. It won't be perfect as velocity changes with temperature, atmospheric pressure, and humidity, which the charts can't account for, but it will be close enough for most people.

@AP2020_Outdoors

5 ай бұрын

That's the problem with "published" factory B.C. data. It is typically on the high side strictly for marketing purposes.

@SlavGuns

3 ай бұрын

@@AP2020_Outdoorsyup… the entire point is to find the true BC.

Their is a nice plate for these, picatinny or ARCA rail, got mine from Short Action Precision for about $50

if you want good down range data, it is hard to beat a Shot-marker or Silver Mountain Target in addition to a good chrono. Not cheap, but awesome results giving you near instant target point velocity and projectile position /group size etc. to a smart phone or tablet.

I enjoyed this video and the earlier video comparing the Garmin Xero, Magnetospeed V3 and the Lab Radar. I just received my Garmin chronograph but have not used it yet. I am curious if the Garmin chronograph has Signal to Noise Ratio files (SNR) like the Lab Radar does, and if so, can they be assessed for analysis. I just learned of these SNR files from the Extreme Reloading Channel and I have found them useful for trying to understand the failures that I have had with Lab Radar. I find the Lab Radar to be very finicky and often I fail to obtain data for analysis. I utilized Lab Radar primarily for all my cast lead alloy projectile data for lever guns, pistols and muzzleloader loads. I imagine if there are no failure to detect events with the Garmin, as I have had with the Lab Radar unit, then problem solved! Again, thank you for your informative and educational videos.

Follow up to my previous post: garmin picked up my little 22 caliber 53 grain bullets at 300 yards with no swear!!!! garmin ftw!!

LMAO @ “here’s a number… SIIKE!!!”

Thanks it was my question

Great video; thanks for posting. Here is something to help you if you didn't already know. C1 takes the reading between 5-10' of the bullet leaving the muzzle.

@tcw95NZ

4 ай бұрын

It picks up shots at the range in the booth next to me (analysing shot) but it then ignores it, the wall extends a few feet forward so it must be tracking it for more than just that short distance, I read 30ft somewhere

@Cosirius

4 ай бұрын

@tcw95NZ What I meant to say is it doesn't measure muzzle velocity per se; it measures a velocity recorded 5-10 ft away from the radar. I asked Garmin. It would be nice if all these manufacturers shared how and where the measurement is taken.

@tcw95NZ

4 ай бұрын

@@Cosirius I see what you mean, so is the muzzle velocity reading given to us actually the 5-10' reading or do they calculate it back to the muzzle?

@Cosirius

4 ай бұрын

@tcw95NZ I don't know, they didn't say. I guess it's a good practice to verify MV and adjust it at long range.

@gregglass9532

2 ай бұрын

The Xero C1 takes measurements out to roughly 20 yards and uses them all in its calculations, however, what it reports is the muzzle velocity.

If people couldn't figure this out on their own, they're not thinking. I thought of it the 2nd day out with my Garmin. Also figured out the way it works is to continuously transmit, then when it detects an appropriate object movement starts measuring. Uh, there's no mic on it folks, duh. I used to check downrange velocities by putting my old Chrony Pro in front of my target at 100 yards and it worked fine. Of course you want to be able to shoot 1" groups or less when you do that. LoL Velocities always matched what ballistics program said based on 10' from muzzle readings. Rolling eyes at creative clickbate title. Couldn't care less about the LabRadar, only glad that I didn't fall for it 6 years ago. You can buy them used for 50% of original price now.

An airsoft pistol isn’t as quiet as a thrown rock, but my Garmin had no problem with measuring the speed of five shots with plastic pellets.

It definitely is not sound activated since it can track arrows as well. What it comes to the down rage speeds, I don't see how they would do that with an update. That device is so freaking tiny, when it comes to radar signals you have loss and accuracy penalties that are exponential with the distance you are measuring at. There is no way to make the radar data from that tiny device readable and consistent at ranges further from the device itself. But for what it is, it's so tiny and easy to use. You only really need the down range speed to confirm on your ballistic coefficient, a couple distances should do unless you keep changing your ammunition all the time. Even if you hand load you can use the Vo to check things are in line with your new batch.

I used do this with a Caldwell... Very hard to get data past 1k. It can take 20 shots to get 1 reading at a mile.. this would really help. I put it behind steel plates for protection. I then used the data to input cd into strelok pro by editing the Lapua radar data sections. This gave me CDM before anyone other than Lapua was offering it. Now Applied Ballistics does all that. When the Garmin came out I was wondering about this capability... Now I gotta get one lol😂

@deadtimber

Ай бұрын

Yeah, you gotta get one! I've done the same with a Chrony, but only at 100 and 200 yards. But you probably don't need to take readings at 1K, but I'm sure it would be interesting. I'm thinking muzzle, and 500 should give you enough to go on, unless you find there is a significant divergence from what you expect. You must be printing .2MOA groups in order to pass over the sensors of a Caldwell at 1K! In any event, just think, if you can get a bullet to pass by within 15" of this thing, it will read it! Big fun!

I don't know if you've seen the Area 419 Garmin Bracket Arm Clamp. Mine just came to my doorstep. I like it because the Garmin can mount to it, and I can attach an RRS SOAR SC-ARC Bipod Clamp to the opposite end and clamp it to the ARCA rail on my rifle. The Area 419 bracket arm also has a 3/8" threaded hole in the middle of it so you could thread the Garmin Bipod directly into it if you wanted. Also, the arm itself has an ARCA dovetail shape so you could mount the whole bracket arm into an ARCA clamp. It's pretty versatile!!

@primalrights

6 ай бұрын

Attaching a Garmin to a rifle and firing it, voids its warranty. Something to think about!

@livefiretacticaltraining7674

6 ай бұрын

Excuse me, that's a 1/4-20 hole in the center of the Area 419 Bracket Arm. My apologies. Basically the Garmin mounts to the clamp and you leave it there, and then you can attach it to anything you want from there.

@livefiretacticaltraining7674

6 ай бұрын

You know, that is a good point! I'll try it out and hope it works! If not, I'll buy another one! I'll test that👍@@primalrights

@JacobTerherst

5 ай бұрын

@@primalrightsCLR voids warranties also but it works so well.

@livefiretacticaltraining7674

5 ай бұрын

Hey Greg, After giving this some thought, I think I will keep the Area 419 Mount since I already bought it and still get the RRS Clamp just so I can have complete versatility of mounting options available. With that combo I can do anything I want to do. I think maybe one could mount the Garmin to a lower recoiling rifle and be OK, but repeated use on a heavy recoling rifle may mess up the accuracy of the readings possibly. Area 419 states they have tested it on 300 PRC but I don't know how many rounds they fired with that cartridge. It's interesting too, that Garmin sends Area 419 an NDA, asking for their input, which indicates they know each other, and then Area 419 designs a mount that directly conflicts with Garmin. I think that 99% of the time there will be no need for me to attach this to my rifle. But it's nice to have that option available if I need it and it's nice to be able to mount the unit anywhere you want. But for me the main concern would be getting inaccurate velocity readings due to the jarring recoil. The only way to truly test this mount would be to buy 2 Garmins, and fire them side by side, with one always mounted to the rifle only, and one not on the rifle, for an extended period of time. Like at least 2,000 rounds. And then you'd have to keep track of the velocity differences and how many shots didn't get picked up, etc. Not something I am too interested in delving into. It will be interesting to see how many Garmins fail or don't fail over the next couple years with this mount. Thanks Greg!@@primalrights

Bryan Litz has a big dataset of measured bc’s that were measured at multiple points. Most people don’t care band most don’t calculate their own bc, but the litz data is available in some ballistic apps, not only his own

Yeah Greg don't steal all the fun. lol

Not that I ever had a lab radar but that was one of the nice things about it is getting down range velocities without having to clamp your chrono down range lol. 😂 One of these days I hope you get to try the bullet seeker mach 4+. I only have the mach 4 but it's awesome in every way.

I threw a rock over the top of the garmin and it picked it up at 103fps or about 70.5 mph. No sound. Quieter than the quietest rimfire suppressor . So I can say yes it does not need sound to trigger

I've wanting to see if it works properly with 2 blocks of 4×4 treated wood to protect it from a stray round. But I haven't gotten around to it. Maybe after hunting season and I have nothing fun to do.

@deadtimber

Ай бұрын

Hmmm....might wanna add something like a metal plate to those 4x4s.

Good test. Sure would be rough on the wallet if ya had a stray. Thank you

You only need velocity. You don’t need down range velocity unless you’re using very expensive radar like applied ballistic and Hornady use. That’s way different and expensive radar then what a consumer will be able to buy these days. I don’t think I’d trust a bc number from labradar. I would trust velocity tho and true my bc drag from there and the same gos for garmin and magneto speed. I’m all for custom drag models but we are going to need way more powerful radar to pull that off.

I am not saying the LabRadar is better than the Garmin (I have only use the LabRadar so far) but with regards to down range velocity Labradar certainly is. If you install a SD card in your LabRadar not only do you get the down range velocity at the specific ranges you have set for the display on the back of the unit but there will be a file on the SD card for each round fired. In that file you will get a table with velocity, range, and Signal to Noise ration for every millisecond (rifle setting) for the bullet going down range until the radar looses it. It's great data for fine tuning or establishing a BC for a bullet.

@ericbennett1253

5 ай бұрын

Sooo......1 small point for Labradar? All other points go to Garmin? Not trying to sound like a jerk, just making an honest point of opinion. Another opinion is Labradar is finished if they don't make drastic changes. Even then they are in serious trouble and I'm sure they know it. They had a good run though.

@mcbhomis

5 ай бұрын

@@ericbennett1253I agree with you. I really like that particular function of the LabRadar but from all the reviews I have read and watch the Garmin unit appears to be better in just about every other way that matters. I am glad I held off buying a LabRadar and will likely buy the Garmin to replace my aging Shooting Chrony.

@rickh9306

5 ай бұрын

Well that MAY work if you get an actual reading from your LabRadar. And that’s the problem with them….getting a reading.

@deadtimber

Ай бұрын

@@mcbhomis Yup! I started with the Chrony about 15 years ago and bought a Magneospeed 7 years ago. Love the consistency and accuracy of the Magnetospeed. Then the LabRadar came out.....Held off on the LabRadar due to the size and weight and the quirky things I read and saw first hand at the ranges and considering the price point. But when I saw the Xero, it became evident that the price point was not the issue because I bought one within weeks of first hearing about it. I never thought I'd spend that much on a chrono, but I surely don't regret it. It's a total game changer to be able to quickly set up almost anywhere (I shoot in the wilderness a lot) and monitor all shots. You will discover things that you didn't know before and save ammo costs by being able to analyze group size and velocities at the same time. Could not do that reliably on the Magnetospeed, and we all know the drawbacks of the Shooting Chrony (a great product for what we paid!).

I'm gonna try this at 300 yards with my 223. I'm running 53 vmax on the ragged edge of stability and am curious what kind of velocity/bc degradation I am getting vs calculated (assuming good stability sg>1.5).

@deadtimber

Ай бұрын

Good reason to try this! I now chrono all rounds shot from the bench or prone when developing loads or even just to monitor differences in case lots, etc. You can always throw the data away if it is not useful.

Having trouble getting new, out of the box Xero to pickup 204 Ruger at indoor range. About 15” from muzzle. Says “analyzing shot” but does not record shot. Couldn’t find a place on the bench that worked?… only captured 3 of 27 firings. Any suggestions? Will do a factory reset and sw update then try again. Tripod is only option for now. Thanks.

@primalrights

5 ай бұрын

Sounds like a question for garmin. I’ve never used one indoors.

@jwschroeder804

5 ай бұрын

Agree and plan on it.

@tcw95NZ

4 ай бұрын

Did you get this sorted? I have been reading lots about these and you are the only person I have seen who has had trouble picking up shots

i bet garmin will update if people complain enough. i can see maybe for 22lr you may need this info but other than that i dont see a major need for this if its only measuring out to 100yds. More importantly was the equation diferences between them labradar being rounded incorectly up or down and the sd equatiion being of sample instead of total population.

@imeprezime1285

3 ай бұрын

Can't capture readings beyond 50 yards for 22LR. Sorry

Sounds possible. But for the data to be accurate and significant, you've got to have the data from the same projectile at each measuring point. Not a different projectile for each data point.

You can probably place it as far out as you trust yourself not to hit it, and point the beam to suit to catch it, 400yds at least shouldn't be much of an issue. If you don't trust yourself, too bad.

Area419 has the garmin arca plate

Hi, Happy New Year! Note: You would improve your channel greatly if you invested in a better microphone.

@Shoot-4-Fun

2 ай бұрын

I agree. I think that is a good point of feedback because you do put out extremely professional content and better audio would just give it that extra touch of professionalism.

@primalrights

2 ай бұрын

@PRC_liker I’d ask that you watch the most recent videos. I’ve always had $1000+ high quality mics… but my space is hard wood everything with concrete floors. Though I think I have the problem resolved.