wether he plays in vct or not, he'll always be the best genshin streamer

@gimmethatquan5309

Жыл бұрын

He mains c6 Qiqi

@xatoor

Жыл бұрын

that title goes to BTMC (osu player)

@catart2633

Жыл бұрын

coming in a close second is hikaru

@maxhertzig5579

Жыл бұрын

@@catart2633 hikaru played genshin? gotta watch it lol

@catart2633

Жыл бұрын

@@maxhertzig5579 yeah but he's only playing it as part of a sponsored stream so he plays only the minimum amount to get paid, thought it was hilarious when i saw he was playing it though

i think the more immediate issue would be whether or not any team strong enough to get into franchising or ascension would actually sign him, since bringing him on would be a major hit to their brand (not necessarily a brand risk, but he's certainly reliably divisive)

@dot8968

Жыл бұрын

@Charlie Thompson that is not what happened at all

@MagnaAPX

Жыл бұрын

@@dot8968 LMAO

@jadenngl

Жыл бұрын

@Charlie Thompson ???

@sincro233

Жыл бұрын

@Charlie Thompson what r you on about that was not what happened she was 100% over the age lmfao it was about a different side of things

@haenzo

Жыл бұрын

@Charlie Thompson don't make me laugh more pls

From watching his streams i can tell he is very happy with content creating at the moment. He has no Reason to try and get into a team. Especially because the hate he would get seems like a lot in itself. As long as the allegations aren't cleared i think it will stay that way. Until then it might still be a long time.

@bigred1619

Жыл бұрын

Even if they where cleared it would likely not change the situation too much as the only notable case where allegations turned out to be false and the accused actually won back public support is the Johnny Depp case. In most other cases where the accused was proven innocent they still would be shamed by the public and had there careers ruined.

@ummai6680

Жыл бұрын

@@bigred1619 but i mean if he actually s/a someone he deserves to not be able to create content , not saying that he did tho

@voltz8945

Жыл бұрын

Cleo will definitely make sure that Sinatraa doesn't play competitive ever again. She'll have every tweet ready to fire once he has. Even if she has no basis, every org and company has to take it seriously to avoid brand risks. This is what I hate on the investigation being halted, tell me if the man's guilty or not omg. If cleo really had good evidence she should just show it to the cops.

@N_May1

Жыл бұрын

@VoltZ she has no power over him if he just decides to move to Asia. The Japanese, Koreans, and especially the Chinese orgs will never listen to her decrys to remove him, lol. We are talking about countries that have their own major domestic sponsorships.

@the_crypter

Жыл бұрын

@@N_May1 Ah yes, the Andrew Tate way.

The thing is, theres only 1 sinatraa and theres plenty of up and coming casters that would grab at people like Mitch's spot right away. Sinatraa is pretty much just stuck because cleo will inevitably spark the allegations again once or if he decides to go into the league.

@SeanieChipotle

Жыл бұрын

If he truly wants to play professionally again he needs to counter sue here

@rulersreachf4n223

Жыл бұрын

If Nothing is proven and an investigation has been done then Cleo either has to speak up or there is no issue other than hereysay and if Sinatra’s Career in Val is taken from an unproven statement that is tragic

@priyanshusharma1812

Жыл бұрын

These casters are talentless individuals who only talk about surface level observations, they could be easily replaced with discord mods for god's sake, you can't replace Sinatraa, let the casters be jobless, nobody cares about them.

@SeanieChipotle

Жыл бұрын

@@priyanshusharma1812I mean these casters are known through the scene. And different games such as Geometrics where I recognize her from r6 casting, but I see what you mean

@drewmorg.

Жыл бұрын

@@SeanieChipotle No one watches esports for the casters.

Such an interesting and polarizing topic whenever he's brought up, I wonder if other esports games have dealt with situations like this recently because I feel like that would be a good way to judge how Riot would handle it if it happened again also nice vids comm I've been watching for a while keep it up

@krampus6402

Жыл бұрын

Yooooo dont look at the moon

@kasheeshW

Жыл бұрын

i didnt expect you to be here what

@andrewdao3044

Жыл бұрын

probably boombl4 from CSGO got benched when his (ex)-wife was seemingly pro-russia and she threw him under the bus and said he had some addiction problems. He was benched for "Brand and PR reasons" and has stayed on it for what seemed like the remaining time of his contract and recently just entered F/A.

@bfc9467

Жыл бұрын

Other esports games have dealt with this recently. Overwatch had a situation where a person who was one of the best in the league, who even had a skin named after him, turned out to have some serious allegations levied against him, with ample evidence. They took action by renaming and refunding the skin. As an all time great player of the game (you have to be able to admit that) he still comes up in discussion from time to time. But generally people in the community will avoid saying his name. It's in stark contrast to how he is recieved in the game he moved to, where people forgave him for the allegations.

@Mixu.

Жыл бұрын

@@bfc9467... do you mean Sinatraa? Because yeah, he just swapped games. OWL had a kiddy diddler too and basically all that was done was that he was banned and removed from everywhere and given to police. (iirc) Smash constantly has issues, but that's it's own entire world. Other games have these issues, but generally almost no other game publisher/developer is as involved with their pro scene as Riot.

love the discussion that this brings up, great video!

great video going into the situation that riot may need to deal with in the future in a very neutral way

@bettydraper2034

Жыл бұрын

there's ltierlaly no way to deal with sexual abusers in a neutral way. u are ignorant and privileged.

I think riot will let him play. The allegations from what I can tell is just inconclusive as both parties didn't cooperate with riot. That being said, that bubble will still be over his head if he does get back to competing. Only way he can truly get back to competing is if the allegations get fully dropped/cleared since as I've said, it's inconclusive.

@jleif7736

Жыл бұрын

I mean it's not really up to Sinatraa to cooperate lmfao, like what is there to cooperate with? He's already said it wasn't true, . If the accuser doesn't cooperate though that's pretty garbage lmfao. Idk why we live in a world of Amber Heards, but we do.

@zstrauss03

Жыл бұрын

Not only that but if riot did ban him this would open up potential legal liability as sinatra could sue. As they have no grounds to do so (so long as he doesn't go to court with his ex as this could lead to another internal investigation giving another suspension).

@dexq1k

Жыл бұрын

@@zstrauss03 you have no idea what you’re saying he cannot sue as he’s been suspended before hand with allegations to back it up the only reason cleo isn’t going ahead is bc of sinatraa meat riders doxing her and her family if she chooses to go ahead and Ofc she doesn’t want that to happen

@bettydraper2034

Жыл бұрын

@@dexq1kthank you for having a brain ❤

@sathalel4084

Жыл бұрын

From all of what ive read there was nothing about cleo being uncooperative only sintraa. Nothing from riot at least.

I absolutely think they would fire the “casters” lmaooo.

@propo0p337

Жыл бұрын

yeh fr, like anybodies gonna give two shits if a certain "Mitch" doesn't cast

@jonny.05

Жыл бұрын

@@propo0p337 yup like no one cares

@some_random_dude13

Жыл бұрын

I honestly think half the casters just suck anyway, one of them being mitch, wouldn't complain if he didn't cast

@jonny.05

Жыл бұрын

@@some_random_dude13 exactly because casters they are so many but sinatraa we just got 1

He's a genshin eSports player now

love your video as always :DD

Hope he takes the offer and start from there, he's an artist in-game.

Almost all of the time these allegations coincidentally pop up before a big event/gig and it's so sad to see such competent and talented player being limited to streaming and a few reddit clips every now and then.

@AcePS3

Жыл бұрын

it's no coincidence. she brought it up again on his return stream as well

@idkidc2573

Жыл бұрын

not saying snatraa is inocent but that is such a stupid argument. In valorant there's e-sports events during most of the year. So the chances of allegations being made before or during an event is extremely high. Are alledged victims supposed to wait until all tournaments in the year are finished? And even then you know god damn well some people would still say thats suspicious.

@YuquVaL

Жыл бұрын

@@idkidc2573 that is true but Why wouldn't the accuser go to the police where she can demand justice in court, and instead go to a video game company? A family member of mine went through a similar situation and went straight to the police to get justice not public empathy

@idkidc2573

Жыл бұрын

@@YuquVaL Sexual Assault allegations are very hard to prove, even when they are true. Some judges won't accept anything besides like a confession or a video tape as evidence. And even when someone *IS* found guilty, especially important figures, chances are their sentence will be very small, if they have any. So some victims prefer to go public with their stories and share their evidence with the world. I've seen people do both and personally I don't feel like we should judge people for doing either. In theory going to the police is the best option, in practice, it often works out pretty badly for the alledged victim. I am, once again, not defending sinatraa's ex. I genuinely dont care about either of them as people. I just think that many arguments, both defending and attacking sinatraa, are flawed and can be harmful towards victims of sexual assault.

@geraldsilalahi

Жыл бұрын

@@idkidc2573 just curious, how would u then approach this situation, coz it seems like both of them are on a tight spot

I personally think it's a lot easier to get a different caster than finding a new fifth. Also, he could just supply that counterevidence he said he was going to.

Sinatraa has stated numerous times that he just doesn't want to go back to pro play as of this moment, as the grind is too much and he's making more streaming than he would in a pro team, I can't remember the clip but I'm sure he said he's had offers but doesn't want to make a return just yet.

sinatraa is an example of when natural talent meets hardwork noone can beat that

@KurtIsFat

Жыл бұрын

Bro beats fr

@jayprice5366

Жыл бұрын

yeah dude not letting him play is just a waste. him alone would change the scene completely

@JackDespero

Жыл бұрын

Except oneself, apparently.

a commend upload? W

i want him to qualify just to see what riot would do

it was not the first time that a women destroyed a man career

Sooooooo his entire career was ruined by some allegations that haven't been confirmed? That seems cool and fair. If anything I have more respect for him than I did before.

@luism370

Жыл бұрын

cons of being a man

@davidesquer1312

Жыл бұрын

not cooperating with an investigation into you is enough for them to ban him for life. completely fair.

@hidra2673

Жыл бұрын

He refused to cooperate when Riot was investigating the situation. That doesn’t really scream innocent to me

@seancanja1518

Жыл бұрын

@@hidra2673 it was because they were already investigating and they took the case into court that time I guess.

@stimdad8312

Жыл бұрын

@@hidra2673 If he hadn't cooperate with the cops? sure. not cooperating with a riot "investigation"? that can totally be justified.

As long as nothings proven even after all the allegations and the supposed investigation by riot and them allowing him to play in the LCQ, its a crime that such a talented dude is wasting away outside the top level where its obvious he is better than a LOT of pros competing at the top level, just a sad situation

@hearthventer9858

Жыл бұрын

If he really wants to go into the pro scene he can always sue for defamation. That will be a decisive end to the situation, but he could also be avoiding that if he is afraid it will backfire (possibly guilty)

@abdim1500

Жыл бұрын

@@hearthventer9858 so the only way to clear your name should be to sue? Like ik that you obviously don’t agree with this, but still still insane to even have to come to that 😅

@warrenglodove5268

Жыл бұрын

@@abdim1500 thats how it works, either u sue them to drop the allegations.

@Clawzuhfy

Жыл бұрын

@@warrenglodove5268 that’s not how it works. the allegations are supposed to mean nothing until they are proven. innocent until proven guilty.

@warrenglodove5268

Жыл бұрын

@@Clawzuhfy maybe the girl want money and clout. we never know why.

Well I mean these exact people who are "against" him would say innocent until proven guilty if these charges were against him and I honestly feel bad for him since Sinatraa if he were to go full pro again he would become the best player in the world pretty likely cuz he's actually a different kind of player than most on the scene rn

@JJ-xt2dq

Жыл бұрын

Why would he not cooperate with an investigation if he was completely innocent.

@xodyssy

Жыл бұрын

@@JJ-xt2dq from what I recall, him not being cooperative was when he said he would give them a video that Cleo referenced as proof of his abuse, but then he didn’t give it to them because he had deleted it beforehand and forgot that he deleted it. Basically he’s saying that the video she referenced existed at one point, but that it didn’t contain any proof of abuse. Maybe it was just an excuse, but it’s also entirely possible that he was being genuine. Because there is no available proof that he abused her, she doesn’t have a case to bring to a legal court, so instead she chose to crucify his character online. It’s a he said she said situation and no one can know for sure who is telling the truth because there isn’t any condemning evidence to back her claims

@user-ir2ox2if2p

18 күн бұрын

@@JJ-xt2dq u r stupid you seriously typed that out thinking that made sense?

crazy we live in a world where an accusation can ruin your life / career

I’ll never forget watching a Shazam stream when his chat was telling him that Sinatra was playing under a different name. Iirc he didn’t believed him at first but when someone showed him a clip of a guy spectating him a huge grin just went across his face because he could tell by the players movement that it was Sinatra.

I think the biggest part holding him back that people don’t talk about is himself. He’s said multiple times he has no interest in competing and that he makes way more money on stream

@pgnm

Жыл бұрын

he says that bcoz he dont want to deal with all the hassle that comes afterwards as told in the video. but deep down im sure he wants to return to compe(we all want him to also).

@gert5072

Жыл бұрын

@@pgnm sure. That must be it. Not the massive salary

@pgnm

Жыл бұрын

@@gert5072 😂oh yeah that also

I don't think they'll ban him or anything, But they'll basically force orgs to kick him out Already franchised teams i have no hope that sinaatra can join one, riot will just stop that, And if a challengers team with sinaatra gets ascension then riot will prolly ask them to kick him out It's sad that due to the pause in investigation there's nothing much sinaatra can do

I think the investigation has to be taken further and come to a solid conclusion for riot to be able to make a decision.

pls tell me the name of the song in the beginning of the video

these casters acting like they re not replaceable

whats the song at the beginning of the video

tbh, ur too underrated, hope you get watch party rights to watch Sao Paolo, if u haven’t already

I can't imagine having my career ruined by allegations that are currently nothing more than just allegations, and not only is the proof provided in said allegations inconclusive, but the fact cleo hasn't turned them into charges may also say something about how true the allegations are, kinda feel bad for sinatraa, something similar happened to a close friend of mine few years ago so I have an idea of how much it must suck

@gaygirlsdreamofme

Жыл бұрын

just allegations? she literally recorded an audio clip of them in bed of her saying stop and him saying no, he refused to cooperate with riots investigation, lied about having evidence that would clear his name. Cleo has been receiving death threats and hate all over twitter, meanwhile her abuser is getting congratulated and pitied. The reason women don't go to the police is for this exact reason, people never believe women, most sa cases end up in nothing happening.

@andy-xz2uk

Жыл бұрын

@@gaygirlsdreamofme you're not a woman bro 😂😂😂😂😂

@Ungabunga923

Жыл бұрын

He was uncooperative in the investigation. Innocent people don’t do that, and if they do then they deserve it

@Arlifes

Жыл бұрын

@@Ungabunga923at least he was being cooperative with the LAW ENFORCEMENT and not the Game Company. It's so funny that cle0h is just holding charges to pursue clout whenever he's back to being a sensation so Sinatraa won't be able to clear his name. This case was just like Johnny depp and Amber Heard, the difference is one took it to court and the other didn't because of mental issue (which is definitely a lie) because when Sinatraa tweeted that riot was done with the investigation and he was allowed back to play, Cle0h brought the allegation back and gaslighted everyone who supported him.

@StenchRadiantDemonGoatReal

Жыл бұрын

@@Ungabunga923 innocent people do that and why would he cooperate with a video game company when there is already the police doing an investigation 🤦‍♀️

What a sad situation for everyone involved

@Murmurrr

Жыл бұрын

Mostly us viewers.

@bfc9467

Жыл бұрын

Especially the victim of SA

@limespecial6312

Жыл бұрын

@@bfc9467 it's a he say she say situation, so in conclusion from the public information known there is no sa

@bfc9467

Жыл бұрын

@@limespecial6312 well there is evidence, so it's literally not a he say she say. Its a she say he donowalls.

@limespecial6312

Жыл бұрын

@@bfc9467 Oh do please enlighten me, about said evidence, i'd be happy to learn something.

nice content my guy

bro already winning in life.

It’s kinda crazy how much influence sinatraa’s ex had over valorant competitive. Forcing the current best player to step down and letting Tenz join sentinels, which propelled the org to superstardom. Not arguing if the allegations are true or false because I don’t know, just crazy that the ripple effect

@bfc9467

Жыл бұрын

Kinda true, but also a ripple effect implies the initial event is small and has larger impact (ripples start small and grow larger). But I would argue that serious and compelling allegations are not a small event. So not really a ripple effect, she dropped a bombshell.

@coledorillo6685

Жыл бұрын

@@bfc9467 Not trying to undermine the allegations, I just didn't know what better word to use.

@y0ungship118

Жыл бұрын

@@coledorillo6685 maybe reaction chain works? Idk i'm not a native speaker

@coledorillo6685

Жыл бұрын

@@y0ungship118 the butterfly effect would be more accurate but chain reaction works.

@TheKillerZmile

Жыл бұрын

i mean actions have consequences

Great video as always. But imo if he has any hopes of being in competitive valorant again, he has to completely clear out the allegations, especially those abt rape or serious abuse. Which means he has to re-open the case, cooperate with riot, no matter how you look at it. Of course, with how the world works his reputation will never be the same, but guy clearly has a lot of fans, and it doesn't matter how people feel abt him for many years that come by as long as he cares abt his career he can compete on the highest level again. Even if he is guilty of being a toxic bf as shitty as it is, doesn't carry as much weight as the other allegations and won't really hold weight in court. At most ppl will see him as a shitty person and rightfully so but it's much better than the current rep he has anyway objectively speaking. If he somehow gets in a franchised team with the allegations still hanging over his head the past will just repeat itself. Obviously, this only works if he is not guilty, if not then it's a shame.

@Gxbbster

Жыл бұрын

Bro i hope ur not American bc this is not how their juristic system works. You cant give sensitive information which are part of an actual police investigation to a fucking videogame company. The case is not closed btw it can always be reopened if there actually was any proof.

@Benji-mv8qm

Жыл бұрын

@@Gxbbster that’s a braindead take. In big and major corporations over here in the US when sexual harassment or r word allegations are made against or among employees if it’s a large multimillion dollar company e.g riot they do their own investigations. The police also investigate as well, and they normally work with each other, sharing information. However Unlike the judicial investigations the employee isn’t required to participate if they don’t want to like sinatraa did. Which is enough grounds for most companies to suspend or fire the employee. Sinatraa got suspended for 6 months which basically proves my point. Also if u actually read my comment u would know I did say that the case was never closed and it would just hang over him if he didn’t sort it out. Unfortunately you don’t have the required brain cells to actually read a comment before replying.

@idkidc2573

Жыл бұрын

people keep saying "you dont need to prove your inocence" but that only works in court, not anywhere else in life. In real life if you are accused of something, even if you are inocent, its generally expected that you prove your inocence, especially if the accuser has evidence against you, which sinatraa's ex does have against him. Riot literally gave sinatraa a chance to defende himself, provide any evidence he wanted and prove his inocence, did he cooperate with any of that? No he didnt. So riot wants nothing to do with him, which is the most logical choice. Maybe sinatraa is inocent maybe he is not, either way, he had a chance to keep his career and he rejected it. If you have a company and one of your employees or someone you are associated with is facing serious accusations, and they refuse and stall investigations, thats is 1) extremely suspicious and 2) sets a bad precendent for your company, as now anyone in the future can just refuse any investigations against them and 3) is terrible pr, no one wants to be associated with the guy who might or not be an abuser. For the record I have nothing against sinatraa, but most people are being very biased when analysing the situation.

@estimate5351

Жыл бұрын

@@idkidc2573 The thing is, Riot has no privileges in this type of law crime and Sinatraa did work with the police, meanwhile Cleoo refused to saying that she didn't want any of the trouble mentally anymore. imo Cleoo only wants to delay Sinatraa's pro career and not trying to work with the police ( who has the privileges in this case).

@idkidc2573

Жыл бұрын

@@estimate5351 i mean yeah riot has zero legal power. but it absolutely makes sense from their point of view to launch an investigation and it really wouldnt hurt fort sinatraa to have collaborated. And while they dont have legal power, they have power over who they want to be associated with. And if you they arent interested in being associated with a guy that didnt colleaborate with them, that makes a lot of sense. from what I understand, his gf did initially collaborate, offering her statement and her "evidence" (using quotations because many doubt wether or what she had was legit)

He said on stream that he was super close to playing for sen again but Twitter started making noise and that fucked him over.

Sinatraa has such a good movement. Very unique.

I really hope sinatraa is able to rise again because his talent is mind-blowing. ofc if something conclusive happens with the allegations then that changes things but we should give him the benefit of the doubt especially now that he's already served his initial 6 month suspension

@markuspalmer4600

Жыл бұрын

they've been unfounded for almost 7 months and she had no evidence , riot should've just let the legal system take course and not demand for evidence immediately from him like they are a law firm , they handled the situation poorly like they're own in house sa allegations , the difference is those are proven beyond a reasonable doubt and sinatras are very likely( not for sure ) fake

@bfc9467

Жыл бұрын

Why give the benefit of the doubt when the allegations are so compelling? Rape cases are notoriously hard to prove in court, so "not proven = he didn't do it" is not true, despite him being "innocent" legally speaking. He should be glad that's the case and he isn't facing legal repercussions. He is simply banned from the community he was an offender in. Simple and understandable. Idk why people would want him back.

@Mixu.

Жыл бұрын

@@kaiba8954 I'm not going to argue this topic, but I just want to make sure you've heard the audio she released of one of the videos she had of him... using her. She had it in the document where she brought forward all the allegations, so naturally if you actually read them, you'd know there's concrete evidence. (without video the audio alone is ofc not as strong despite being clear, but that's for the courts, not for the public).

@jullianmolina8842

Жыл бұрын

@@Mixu. that’s no evidence wtf 😂😂😂 it’s a cut audio of her moaning

@Mixu.

Жыл бұрын

@@jullianmolina8842 it's literally her saying no several times and him forcing himself on her anyway. It might be easier to understand if you've spoken to a woman before in your life.

They’ll probably just blacklist him. Like an unofficial ban.

Partnered teams won't risk it, but one of those that got through open qualifier could bite the bullet. If they make assention, their spot among partnered teams is guaranteed for 2 years, so no need to fire him.

I cannot understand how rape allegations are taken to Twitter and accepted to be legit. Where is the fucking police?

@saatvik1

Жыл бұрын

Like you said in the video "if Cleo decided to reopen the police investigation", rape is not a joke. How can one go back and frorth with this? If she had legit proof then sinatraa wouldnt be out rn.

@cfl4sh361

Жыл бұрын

First of all, sadly it’s how it is, if a woman even mentions the slightest connection to SA that guy is done for the rest of his life even if the allegations and charges are proven wrong, since the court of public opinion exists, and even then there were actual police investigations that found no evidence of him actually committing SA, he wasn’t cooperative with riot because he didn’t want to go through the same thing twice when actual law enforcement already did that

@y0ungship118

Жыл бұрын

@@cfl4sh361 And if the allegations are false the woman gets out of it damage free after fckin up someone's life👍

@tapewoerm

Жыл бұрын

You’re so ignorant. SA is extremely hard to prove and rarely does police or the court take it seriously. Also, these men that have their lives “ruined” by false allegations who are they? I haven’t heard a single man where this has happened. Also, it’s unrealistic af since there’s a lot of famous people who have been proven to be abusers that never got affected. Chris brown for example. You guys protecting the super small amount of false allegation victims over the millions of actual SA victims is the reason why SA victims are to scared to speak up or go to the police.

@saatvik1

Жыл бұрын

@@tapewoerm there is no ignorance here. It is a reality check. You are a clown if you think taking SA to Twitter will find you a solution. Your claim has no grounding. Yes police and courts do take SA very seriously and also numerous men are falsely acusted. The scarcity of something dosent deny it's existence. First of all, SA is extremely rare and is extremely shunned upon in American society. For when it happens the guilty faces hard punishment. SA is not hard to prove. It's just that police and courts look for concrete evidence as a wrong decision could destroy a person life. why do you suggest that an allegation should be believed without proper evidence? Famous men are often alleged of being abusers because women accuse then to gain money. In a democratic society you cannot except the courts to believe you with evidence and backing. Dont play the victim card.

This feels like a very odd subject because if these allegations aren’t true then his pro play in valorant was taken from him and as a brand risk what can riot do just ban him from all valorant esports? If what you said about people objecting to Sinatra then that seems terrible for him.

MY HUMBLE GOAT

Here's the thing though, you know how gigachad it would be if that boy Sinatraa Jay Won kept switching teams only to be fighting in the challengers and still get every single team into the finals. Imagine if half of the teams in VCT are only in because of Sinatraa.

so basicaslly he is accused by his ex without proof which ruined his esports career forever?

How long do alligations need to stay unproven for them to be dismissed...

@pyrujer6495

Жыл бұрын

its pathetic Trevor Bauer, on of the best MLB pitchers was suspended for a year without pay due to allegations. He was proved innocent in court.

@silentKeys20

Жыл бұрын

@@pyrujer6495 that's the point, the ex gf wont bring it to court because she knows she can hold his career in limbo forever. The goal was never to reveal the truth, it was just to ruin his career.

@nyxislost553

Жыл бұрын

If he really didn't do it and cooperated with the investigation then they likely would have been proven false and he'd be fine. Not cooperating really screwed him

@genessab

Жыл бұрын

He wasn’t banned for the allegations he was banned for not cooperating w the investigation.

@kantaim4195

Жыл бұрын

@@genessab which is still stupid because there was an ongoing police investigation and there was no need for a gaming company to also do an investigation

It’s crazy that all of this is for allegations

how has this case been going on for a year? the girl gives no solid evidence (the video clips that she does have are edited) and the allegations very coincidentally pop up before the biggest valorant game of his life and he hasnt even been taken to court, the charges have also been dropped

As far as i see it, its innocent until proven guilty, i dont really think that riot should play the judge, but ig they can do what they want its their league

@andy-xz2uk

Жыл бұрын

fr knowing riot paid 100 millions to their employees because of sexual abuse, kinda ironic

@spu_t8221

Жыл бұрын

I mean riot says he’s fine to compete. And he’s not ban

With the allegations being inconclusive i think its best for both riot and sinatraa to just keep things as they are. He seems very happy just being a content creator and if he does try and get back into competing odds are cleo will probably bring back the allegations and cause another shit storm.

@rhaineconsuelo2138

Жыл бұрын

yes but I would love to see Sinaatra and TenZ play together and hopefully dominate

Please make a video on Pro City (unbiased of course)

It just shows how a relationship can screw with your career 😂

@sathalel4084

11 ай бұрын

yea generally being a rapist will do that to a mf

@sunlightInky

11 ай бұрын

@@sathalel4084 guilty until proven innocent

@sathalel4084

11 ай бұрын

@@sunlightInky agreed that is exactly how sinatraa stans think of his ex !

@timmerss9423

8 ай бұрын

@@sathalel4084you realize the statement Cleo put out literally directly contradicts your view. She says it WASNT r4pe. Lol, just shows how hard you bought into the mob mentality

This is just my guess but doesn't have to worry about not having casters at all since there are definitely people out there who don't care about the controversy and just see it as another foot in the door to become a caster

@silentKeys20

Жыл бұрын

I mean look at the stream view count when UB played. It peaked to total 60k (combined between streamers) just watching him and his team with no caster whatsoever.

Let that man play!

W vid as always

Cleo claims to have conclusive evidence and the most common rebuttal is that she doesn’t want to reveal it because of the backlash, but wouldn’t revealing the truth ensure that basically everybody besides the rabid sinatraa fans would be on her side? The whole internet would be going ham on sinatraa. It would easily end the case and end the career of her alleged sexual abuser completely, so why doesn’t she do it? unless…

@mygamechannel2300

Жыл бұрын

Why you are blaming the victim? If she is wrong, he can easily sue her for destroying his brand, name, job, etc. She practically kill off any sponsor chances for him.

Жыл бұрын

I was blocked from forcing her saying the truth, so far i haven't knew anything but Jay Won was still in the scandal, i can't get it.

@limespecial6312

Жыл бұрын

@@mygamechannel2300 Well when you consider the situation, and look at the pros and cons, sinatraa doesn't get anything out of this other then bad publicity, the quote on quote "vicitm" does benefit quite a lot on it however as, she keeps the investigation going, earns what might be perceived as revenge, and monetary benefit. so in conclusion him suing her would not benefit him in any way, as there is no monetary gain, nor would any of the bad publicity go away. he'd just be bringing t drama all around again + it'd drag his reputation even more.

@mygamechannel2300

Жыл бұрын

@@limespecial6312 Lol .... Image this, someone accuse you of a "crime", you got fired from your job, sponsorship ignore you like plague, your name tarnished, etc. People ask you why you not sue them? And your answer is like, "I will not get anything of it other than bad publicity". Please remove your tainted fan glasess. Any normal people can tell he did something wrong, expecting everything died down after few months so he can comeback like he nothing ever happened.

@ravendotio

Жыл бұрын

@@mygamechannel2300 I mean, do we even know who the victim is?

u failed to mention he couldnt play competitively the 2nd time was cause of his ex gf complaining again

To this day its just crazy how easy it is a girl can ruin a mans life bro...

he's held hostage, he competes = cleo will continue the case

@jagason7494

Жыл бұрын

Nah she’s done with it already lol

@jagason7494

Жыл бұрын

Cause his streaming career is the most important so it will be fjne

@flexninja6781

Жыл бұрын

@@jagason7494 she isnt. she tweeted about him after they lost in lcq

@cfl4sh361

Жыл бұрын

@@flexninja6781 what did she tweet, I’m not into twitter that place is full of weirdos

Жыл бұрын

@@cfl4sh361 i mocked her while trying to force her to say, she blocked lol, dunno what the hell she was doing

Wait did I hear that right? Prod in pro scene?

I don’t understand what else people want him to do at this point in terms of self improvement. He has already served his suspension and hasn’t been found guilty. Why do all of these people on the internet get to take away his entire career. At some point we need to allow people to improve and learn from things. The guy should be able to compete in a video game.

@StenchRadiantDemonGoatReal

Жыл бұрын

They are chronically online and refuse to believe in innocent until proven guilty, no concrete evidence, case being dropped

@spu_t8221

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. He’s not proven guilty nor innocent but her dropping charges for now and her story having so much lies, should give him. The chance to play

@lemmyboy4107

Жыл бұрын

I dont know why people think he has the right to work somewhere. I cant go to a company and tell them i have the right to work here because i am better then some others. If the company does not want to work with me thats it, they do not even need a reason. And with sinatraa its even worse, he did not work with riot while they tried to sort it out, so why should they now work with him? I have to keep good relations with my boss aswell.

@Redddickjj2003

Жыл бұрын

@@lemmyboy4107 but what if your coworker says you stole shit but you didn’t and there is no other proof other than words?? Lmao come on now think bruh think about the legal action riot would possibly take sinatraa probably has his lawyer analyze shit before it hit the fan and told him to say nothing

@lemmyboy4107

Жыл бұрын

@@Redddickjj2003 IF that happens, i would ofcourse proceed to fully cooperate with the investigatiom made by the company. Else i can not expect the company to trust me, if i wont even trust the company.

the fact that someone can just ruin your entire career and possibly even your entire life over a unproven allegation is genuinely terrifying

@pierce2125

Жыл бұрын

There was audio evidence bro

@pkyfhfkyif9gpgv

Жыл бұрын

@@pierce2125 that audio evdience sounds like two people have a good time not assault you cant even distinguish between sex or assault the audio was not even convincing and could be easily mistaken for sex

@killerfate999

Жыл бұрын

If the evidence was that fool proof then they wouldn’t still be allegations

@jayprice5366

Жыл бұрын

@@pierce2125 bro it was just roleplay sex how is that evidence?

@pierce2125

Жыл бұрын

@@jayprice5366 oh ok did sinatraa tell u that himself?

crazy a man can have everything taken from him over allegations and its not even proven

I remember when he was rank 1 in hayday

6:57 I dont think it would. Just because hes better than the other pros, it doesn't take away from the fact that he is facing other pros. Trent has been part of a teir 2 team for quite a while and no one is saying that he's taking away from the competiive integrity of the game even though some regard him as top 10 players NA right now

@CommendYT

Жыл бұрын

I see what you mean, I guess I'm thinking about it like: as long as trent is good enough, he can get to the top and play with the other top players. sinatraa probably won't be able to do that, no matter how good he is - interesting debate

I really hope this issue can be settled legally away from public eyes. Fans from both sides are too hostile towards the opposite side that it hindered further developments in the past (ie threats, harassment, etc.) . Let cle0h reopen the case or sinatraa take her to court for defamation. SA shouldn't be taken lightly but at the same time AH vs JD case and other cases shows that despicable women can manipulate evidences and initiate cancel culture ruining the lives innocent men.

The casters don't have the power to give riot ultimatums what, casters are thrilled when they are chosen for an event

it would feel unproffesinal if riot event staff like caster and observers would just never cast a game with sinaatra in it.

As someone who's watched him from day 1 of OWL and played with him multiple times in OW, his attitude matches his allegations. Cleoh literally stopped pursuing the case because his fans were sending constant harassment and death threats, etc. He deserves to be barred from the pro tour forever. Once an abuser, always an abuser.

@H8MyM8Botbi

Жыл бұрын

well but hes not proven an abuser... also the case she opened was only investigated on by riot... means she didnt even go to a normal court and open the case but she only went to riot to get him suspended if you know what i mean i dont know how the system in america is developed around that bc im german but if u were abused by someone u prob wouldnt just go to riot and make sure they ban him but u would go to a normal court, open the case and get him into jail or whatever since that didnt happen and neither of them ever mentioned a "normal" court investigation but only the one riot investigated on i dont think he did abuse her so all those punishments were made onto an innocent person if he gets proven guilty though obviously he should be banned and in jail

@ZeaLHere

Жыл бұрын

@@H8MyM8Botbi Going to Riot had the best possibility of something actually happening. In America, 1 in 6 reports will lead to arrest, and 1 in 12 of those will actually lead to conviction. The statistics are greatly skewed against you if you take it directly to our justice system because it's so poor with the way it's formatted to address cases like this. There are multiple instances of r*pe being reported with actual r*pe kits proving something happened and the case just being dropped because a kit proving it happened wasn't enough evidence. Also, the case was opened with Riot and Riot got police involved in the investigation.

@H8MyM8Botbi

Жыл бұрын

@@ZeaLHere well first of all america is kinda fcked then and even though she did go to riot and police was involved there seemed to be lacking evidence so well never know ig

@ZeaLHere

Жыл бұрын

@@H8MyM8Botbi america is 100% fucked lol, we're a terrible country

@H8MyM8Botbi

Жыл бұрын

@@ZeaLHere wouldnt say that if it werent for u russia wouldve completely ran over europe by now

His situation of being held hostage is so odd. Why did she close the investigation? If he already WAS under police investigation, why would investigation through a 3rd party be necessary? It's something even lawyers tell you, don't let anyone intervene, just let the lawyers talk to the law. His behavior during the incident is HIGHLY likely due to advice from supervisors and peers. Nothing was even proven with concrete evidence and he didn't attain a felony. I get it would be a bad scenario if he competed and then Cleo opened the case again mid-season, but shouldn't that also be viewed as suspicious? The timing would be too convenient considering whenever, if ever, he wanted to compete would be by chance and random. IMO he could really grow the league as an impactful player, but being held hostage and then being guilty till proven otherwise is hella unfair.

@franktownsend3483

Жыл бұрын

it doesn't really matter, a large part of the community just believes the twit longer from a long time ago as 100% truth so regardless of any actual trial they full hardily believe he is guilty and will do anything to prevent him from playing.

Sinatraa the brax of valorant

its been so long surely it should be fine now right?

I find it insane that his ex can just reopen the police investigation whenever she pleases. I don’t have experience in this, but I feel like that could be weaponized against Sinatraa and force him to not play as a pro again.

Does anyone else get the idea that Marved not being in a team for franchising has to do with him being so close with Sinatraa, which rubs off on him? It's not like Marved didn't get offers, but he didn't get the offers he wanted, ideally, because some orgs are avoiding their clique? Just a thought, but it has bugged me for a while.

@surgegay9966

Жыл бұрын

having marved in a franchising team is literally just too expensive that’s mostly the reason + “i don’t give a shit i’m in jamaica” - marved

@robertdean4238

Жыл бұрын

what do u mean he didnt get the offers he wanted ? realistically, all franchised teams have interest in marved. top 3 controller without a doubt and arguably the best and you think he didn't have the luxury of choosing his own team ? btw the reason why he doesnt have an org is bc he chose to take a break :)

@cfl4sh361

Жыл бұрын

That is the most absurd take I’ve heard. No, Marved not in franchising has nothing to do with Sinatraa, he clearly stated that for a lot of reasons (not wanting to move outside of NA, getting tired etc.) he doesn’t want to compete and will take a year off.

@siphonVLRT

Жыл бұрын

its more likely its because of his match fixing in csgo

they mad cuz the humble jay won is a 1 in 1000000 talent

Kinda weird for casters to get their feeling out for certan players.

@thenewchromie7505

Жыл бұрын

Exactly

@the_crypter

Жыл бұрын

Why tho, kinda weird people have to hide their feeling towards certain players because they are afraid the teenage fanboy army will harass them

@malozez

Жыл бұрын

@The Crypter Idk feels a bit childish, like who gives the fuck about players private life u just watch their gameplay and talk about it

@the_crypter

Жыл бұрын

​@@malozez People just staying silent has led to so many industries becomeing an absolute shithole, I would rather people say what they think regardless of whether people get mad at them. People going, 'Shut up and entertain me' seems way more childish, No ?

If the assault stuff is proven false I really hope she gets at least a very big fine for the possible millions Jay could've gotten in a top team or even jail time. Like it's been a long time since this and nothing is proven so it's likely false accusations

@ammielclemente5637

Жыл бұрын

quite impossible as there is no investigation anymore as the investigation was dropped by the plaintiff and the sad part is that sintraa will never be proven innocent, which is why he probably will never be on a t1 team ever again :(

@nyxislost553

Жыл бұрын

The fact that he was apparently uncooperative with the investigation is a really bad look for him. If he didn't do it then she should have had no reason to not cooperate. Even if he genuinely didn't, no wanting to cooperate makes it seem like he had something else to hide that he deemed worse than the allegations

@Naevak.

Жыл бұрын

@@nyxislost553Why would he cooperate with a video game company's investigation? He obviously cooperated with the police and anything he was legally obligated to do was done correctly.

@genessab

Жыл бұрын

He wasn’t suspended for the allegations, but because he was *uncooperative* with the investigation.

@genessab

Жыл бұрын

@@Naevak. he would cooperate with a video game company’s investigation because they have the power to ban him from their tourneys?? Like obviously??

so sad how an accusation can ruin someone career if he did the accusation fair but if sinatraa ex lied about what he did then where is her consequences he getting all the back lass understand riot situation really hard to see a guy life fall apart over something he may have not even done

This feels a bit speculative, the fact that he would automatically be able to compete at the top if he was allowed to because when we look at NA not many players outside the big names (Yay, Tenz, Asuna) rly stand out at international tournanents so i honestly dount the fact that he would make a big impact one the scene. He probably wouldnt even make it to international tournaments in a region as stacked as Americas

just get him

Every time Sinatraa makes a slight interest in competitive playing, his ex tweets about something to steer things up, I mean, if you think he's guilty, go to court. Let the justice system take care of it.

I’ve never heard that he was accused of SA… damn :/

What is the point of a person going to the report a case of Assualt to a video game company, instead of to the police or court?

You would’ve thought people have learnt from Jonny Depp and amber heard oh how wrong we were…

Sinatraa is the only Valorant streamer who I watch for his gameplay and not for his content. Like, man's braindead no cap and the way he talks is just so... but yeah, as a player he is amazing to watch and his Haven door Ares/Odin spam is such a classic to watch. It never gets old. I'm not a fan of him as a person, but I do hope the case gets buried as a tantrum and he's allowed to come back to the pro scene.

@spu_t8221

Жыл бұрын

Same. Some people are just too idiotic to look at facts and see that she lied so much in her documents

@blobfishyyyyy7640

Жыл бұрын

@@spu_t8221 how did she lie? Point something out

Seems like he's being punished before anything has been proven

y’all know tier 1 player scare this guys.

The saddest part in this story is that every party involved lost. Sinatraa lost his shot at Val's pro scene and might never get another one. Riot lost one of it's best possible rising star in the franchise and his ex lost her reputation and her dignity, wether the story was true or not. Nobody won anything out of it.

@JJ-xt2dq

Жыл бұрын

Why would she have lost her dignity if it was true… that makes no sense

@Zedxd

Жыл бұрын

@@JJ-xt2dq she got mad hate because there was no proof backing it up

@samumuuu

Жыл бұрын

if the allegations are true then it's just sinatraa fucking up his own career and his ex's life (kinda)

@seratoninny

Жыл бұрын

​@@samumuuu the fact that its all a matter of "if's" shows how unreliable cleo's allegations were

@doorstepmushroom7197

Жыл бұрын

@@JJ-xt2dq around 2 weeks after the allegations she was happily taking photos with her new boyfriend... not a good picture especially if you were being "abused" 2 weeks prior

Sad Life. Cancel culture at its peak.

@spu_t8221

Жыл бұрын

Definitely, especially to men accused of rape. Dumb females have a mindset that all men rape and the female is alway right

@pizzafromearth

Жыл бұрын

@@spu_t8221 The casters' tweets made me even more angry. Gladly I'm not from the west and actually have brain.

@pizzafromearth

Жыл бұрын

Sometimes I just open twitter to follow pros and see the dumbest of things in the world. It feels like that people from the west decide what's right or wrong and are always hypocrites but never accept when called out. Instead they try to play the victim card. I might be wrong and probably average people ain't like that. But the influencers surely are.

@sathalel4084

11 ай бұрын

@@spu_t8221 dumb males have the mind set that no males rape and the female is always wrong

Shaz: this man is the best in the world rn, TENZ

2:29 my dude left behind

I actually feel bad for what happened to jay if it isn’t true, but at the same time, he’s been at the top forever and he has somewhat of an ego, that much is clear, I personally believe nothing will come from having an ego, especially in esports, so I think it’s a good thing that he got ig ‘humbled’ a bit, but it seems like he doesn’t really care about how his emotions reacted to the circumstance, it’s quite sad to see to be honest, I had a lot of hope for him to learn and grow and come back stronger, but he looks sad and depressed now instead, with no real purpose, no matter what u think of him personally, he’s still a great ow, val, etc player and u cannot deny that.

@aaustyn5064

Жыл бұрын

That's a run on sentence if I've ever seen one, btw its crazy to me you're saying its a good thing he got humbled through a sexual misconduct allegation; you're a clown.

He will go down as a R8pist in the history of gaming shamelessly streaming.

@talhajamil9395

Жыл бұрын

Did he Rpe your mum or sumthin?

it would be cool if they let him play but at the same time you have to remember, riot only loses in this situation, they wouldnt risk that much for one player.

@rameneater5620

Жыл бұрын

Fr. They wouldn’t be introducing any new ppl to the valorant scene so what’s the point? There’s no winning for them

Cleo does not have a case. Law enforcement found nothing!!!

I feel bad for Sinatraa. His whole career has been ruined by a random girl no one knew or cared about who has had allegations that investigations never found any concrete evidence, and that she’s closed the investigation herself. Not cooperating is a whole different side of it, and no one knows as to why he didn’t cooperate at first, but sponsors shouldn’t look at this as a way to not sponsor something. He didn’t get a felony, he only got allegations that haven’t been confirmed

@redpanda661

Жыл бұрын

Yeah although not cooperating is suspicious literally nothing is conclusive and his career is pretty much over due to that

@what2heck426

Жыл бұрын

Bro a random girl. It was his girlfriend it’s not like there was no proof I believe there was like a audio recording of discord or a phone call. I could be mistaken. I do agree that someone should be presumed innocent until proven guilty. But he really did himself no favors in the court of public opinion with how he acted. Clearly I’m not his biggest fan but I’m also not against him playing pro again.

@limpan4002

Жыл бұрын

@@redpanda661 Yes and no. He did cooperate with the police investigation, just not the riot one.

@skyraided6872

Жыл бұрын

@@redpanda661 that is what you should do though, be quiet and let the lawyers do the work.

@spu_t8221

Жыл бұрын

@@redpanda661riot is not police! He doent have to cooperate with them because of the charge of rape!!! Yes he lied but she lied 10x more than sinatraa in her story.

that's so sad to see a guy with that much talent just suffer for his unproven allegation ..... Just because his ex GF said he is a sex offender......Without any strong proof..... Iam shocked how everyone knows that he is not guilty and shuts their mouth off..... I can cleary see Her GF is f**king jealous.... how he is happy with current relationship and how he is growing...... #LoveForTheMan

Stay safe kings ❤️