Of course it's disappointing to have yet another "standard", but I think a lower pull ratio is a good thing - it means cable tension is lower (for the same derailleur spring) and tolerances don't need to be nearly as tight on the shifter/cable "stretch" side. As long as a friction shifter has sufficient total pull it'll be fine. (I wonder what benefits there are to having a higher ratio, aside from shifter pulley size. Anyone know?)

@gsa9408

Жыл бұрын

A higher ratio will make shifting feels lighter

@seitenryu6844

Жыл бұрын

The higher cable pull ratios typical of road shifters is about feel, lever travel, and packaging(size limitations). The cable spool has to get so large that they simply can't make it work with a lower ratio without a bulky shifter. That's obviously a non-starter for roadies. The derailleurs usually have less total travel, so it's not a big deal.

CUES really is a mixed bag as a whole, but one positive that I am taking away from it is that they are, in some regard, re-unifying road and Mountain bike components, which is definitely not a bad thing.

@Schradermusic

Жыл бұрын

Same cable pull ratio means easier and cheaper conversions to or from drop bars. Link Glide is super heavy, though.

@compasteedee

Жыл бұрын

@@Schradermusic it isn't the lightest, but it isn't super heavy, it is the system adopted by the XT pine, so definitely not super portly. It is much more durable to boot

@joelv4495

Жыл бұрын

​@@aaron___6014go back to GCN.

What !? Sram mechanical is also 1:1, Sram + Linkglide may be the beginning of the perfect (and extremely long lasting) drivetrain. Now that is exciting news !

@tanhalt

Жыл бұрын

THIS...as soon as he said 1:1 I was thinking "BONUS! SOOO many SRAM shifters and derailleurs instantly compatible!!"

@VerthNeel

Жыл бұрын

seems like SRAM pull ratio isn't exactly 1:1, like he said in the video.

@rodrames2462

Жыл бұрын

It's just Shimano 11 speed MTB riv are calling deore 5100 1:1 for some confusing reason.

@cosinus_square

Жыл бұрын

@@VerthNeel 'Exact Actuation' - road - is 1:1, 1.3mm 'X Actuation' - mtb - is 2:1, 1.7mm

@cosinus_square

Жыл бұрын

@@rodrames2462 I'm mainly interested in cassette spacing and the new chains. Linkglide is supposed to be more robust and should last longer. I'm happy with my Force22 WiFli RD's I'm using for road, which are lighter than anything below DuraAce 9100 anyway. Don't ride offroad at all so big cassettes are meh.

Personally I don't mind Shimano doing this, they are basically shedding a lot of old baggage with Cues. Having everything with a Cues label be compatible to everything else with a Cues label is a great idea and an, imo, a great move going forward. The whole compatibility forest was getting really obnoxious and unnecessarily so. It's not much different to what SRAM did with their Eagle label and I dare say it's actually an improvement upon it, due to Cues' much wider adaptability, component diversity and complete price range of all compatible components. And there is still friction shifting for those vintage components you can't get shifters for any longer in 7 years or so, wich is how long Shimano stated to keep supporting the older systems. At least I think I've read that somewhere. Pretty sure there will be third party offerings for a while longer than that as well though.

@Krakonospivo

Жыл бұрын

Agree. As long as everything within CUES will be cross-compatible, especially drop bar shifters (if we are going to see them) with MTB derailleurs, I am ready to say goodbye to the old groupsets. And It is really hard to blame Shimano for not giving a crap about third party solutions, that barely even exist outside of US.

@petesmitt

Жыл бұрын

The 7 years relates to OEM groups; they will likely still make individual components for the aftermarket.

@seitenryu6844

Жыл бұрын

@Krakonospivo Yeah, they don't care if companies make compatible parts, but they're not gonna plan their business around it. Pretty crazy that some people seem to expect that. I think most consumers have no idea of Shimano's production scale.

@ViNeet.KumArTomAr

2 ай бұрын

@@seitenryu6844 right 👊

Thanks for the objective reviews. I want to hold onto all my old gear in 6, 8,9 speed components now.

I’m glad you have the shifter design thing going on. You are so creative I bet you could come up with some interesting niche designs. I get lots of ideas from you. Wooden handlebars, racks, fenders, handlebar shifter integration systems, franken setups to name a few.

Good thing I've been hording old components from the early 2000s and down, perfect balance between simplicity, durability and functionality, i turned my back on the industry years ago when i realized bicycles as a whole were turning into expensive throwaways.

@11robotics

Жыл бұрын

going to start doing exactly the same pretty soon

@houseofsolomon2440

Жыл бұрын

I have a few solid cast shimano crank sets from the 90's. Simple, clean, very durable. Polish every decade or so, and like new. No de-lamination issues so far 🙂

@HansensUniverseT-A

Жыл бұрын

@@houseofsolomon2440 These are solid, i also developed a love for vintage bikes in general, they're so much fun to ride and they're easy to fix, i also find their geometry to be comfortable, great for touring and commuting, i don't miss the modern stuff one bit.

@houseofsolomon2440

Жыл бұрын

@@HansensUniverseT-A Couldn't have said it better myself! Cheers 🥃🍺

@donhuber9131

Жыл бұрын

My '90s mtn bike is a joy to ride and maintain. Many of the components are over 25 years old. Deore front derailleur; Ritchey Logic headset, SPD pedals, SR single bolt seat post; Sugino triple crankset & bb; Dia Compe cantilevers; standard QR hubs. I still ride this bike hard, both commuting in town and out on the gravel roads. It will most likely outlive me, and so will many of these components.

Shimano should hire you, RAD is better sounding than CUES 😂

@interceptor7905

Жыл бұрын

Wow,that is so rad lol

@stephensaines7100

Жыл бұрын

Piss and Cues?

@josephfarrugia2350

Жыл бұрын

RAD is already a (patented?) MTB sizing concept taught by Lee McCormack of Lee Likes Bikes.

@woodywoodverchecker

Жыл бұрын

"Rad" is also German for "Wheel" and the short form of "Fahrrad", which means bicycle.

Thanks for the info. I don't see it as a bad thing in the long run, it looks like a wide range of options are about to open up. All that said it means bugger all to me after Advent X came along, could not be happier with AX if I tried.

@josephfarrugia2350

Жыл бұрын

Pity that Advent X 11-speed is unobtainium in too many parts of the world.

Shimano's decision to throw away all backwards compatibility is really - wait for it - inexcuesable.

@Apollo440

Жыл бұрын

Inconceivable!

@josephfarrugia2350

Жыл бұрын

Shameful, considering the massive educational campaigns about environmental issues & reusing older stuff.

@seitenryu6844

Жыл бұрын

No, it's not at all. Those shifting setups have been around a very long time and several things have been learned since then. They want a drivetrain that deals with contamination and setup issues, even at a low price point. Remember, Shimano's customers are BIKE BRANDS, not direct consumers. They need a complete package to get specced on more bikes to bring down the price. There are plenty of parts in the pipeline to keep existing bikes going for a long time and CUES should be affordable when they're gone. Why would they bother replacing all those groups with the same thing? That makes no sense, they want improvement.

@AndrewFrink

Жыл бұрын

So there are already at least 3 different Shimano 10 speed standards; old road 10 speed, tiagra 4700 10 speed (really road 11), and MTB 10 speed. There are at least two 11 speed standards; road and MTB. There are at least two 9 speed standards, road and MTB (i think this is true). If this ends up unifying all mechanical shifting for 11 speed and down to a single pull ratio that is good. I also haven't heard for sure that the pull per gear is really different. You might be able to run 9 of 11 on a 11speed cassette with 9 speed shifters.

@lastfm4477

Жыл бұрын

@@AndrewFrink There is only 1 Shimano 9-speed standard. Road and MTB are the same.

I like the durability aspects but I think rolling with the third party groups like Microshift gives many more options and darn cheap. As you’ve done here with rad you can pretty much create a dream built at a fraction of the costs.

@JoshuaMelville

Жыл бұрын

I personally think "durability" is really just marketing speak for the fact they want this range to be suitable for ebike use, which requires support for more torque. For non-ebike users, these parts will just end up being significantly heavier. The other irony is that there is nothing _less_ durable than a thin 11speed chain, especially when compared with a current 9 speed. Then there are the riveted chainrings, which make the crankset into waste the second you wear out the ring... Shimano made durable and lightweight parts in the 80s/90s/00s. I would personally love someone to make a modern 8/9 speed groupset with a choice between a double/triple crankset, and compatibility with road and flat bar shifters. They key would be to make it a quality product - not like the tourney level stuff shimano makes now, but more like the deore of 20 years ago.

@Fetherko

3 ай бұрын

@@JoshuaMelville Nailed!

Great heads up episode! Ooof, well I have limited DIY builds to 9 speed tops thanks to all this compability complication. I suppose it makes sense and to have cross compatability for road and mtb being the best part, But maybe going friction is the way for us tinker types. Friction was good enough and the only option for us in the 70's and 80's!

Great video by the way, could you make a video on how to match derailleurs and cassettes, and shifter? I'm trying to build a bike on my own and it's so confusing when it comes to finding appropriate drivetrains. Thanks

Excited for the full Riv Silver drivetrain

I can see a whole product line in your future Russ. Keep kicking against the pricks!

Not sure why you'd assume that cues mean to be cross compatible with everything, they replace 3 groupsets with one so obviously the aim was to have compatibility within the range covered by the 3.

I think a lot of companies, like problemsolvers, are probably already working on adapters for making CUES work with legacy components.

Even though half the time I have no idea what you're saying, I still find these videos valuable. Because one day, it'll all click. On a side note, where can I find the save the front deraileur tshirt? It's not available in the shop. Thanks.

It would be really cool to see Dia Compe make the ENE Ciclo thumb shifter mounts available separately. When this RAD barend shifter comes out there will be no way to swap it over and mount it to 22.2 bars, and the existing thumb shifter mounts (like the ones VO sells) wont accept the larger barrel of these shifters.

Honestly, what sort of magic trick are you expecting? Something that magically is backwards compatible with everything, but also manages to unify the different standards for the future? You have to choose one.. I also don't get why having backwards compatability forever is so expected, you have to change things to make progress sometimes. I've found that bike stores have carried "older" standards for a reasonable amount of years and after that, I've pretty much never had an issue finding the old parts as spares on ebay.

Excellent review!

It was obvious from the first time i heard about cues that it would have either current mtb 11 or some new cable pull ratio. You just can't use the old 1:2 with 9, 10 and 11 speed cassettes.

But how would Shimano be able to keep CUES drivetrains compatible with old 9s and 10s and 11s groupset (road and mtb included), while at the same time making it cross-compatible within the CUES range? It would be an impossible task, we are talking about multiple different pull ratios. Dropping compatibility means that they could move forward and create new, better platform that would be free of restrictions dictated by the old designs.

To be fair, it was never going to be compatible with both the old 9 spd and 11 spd systems, as they use different pull ratios. They could have made it compatible with at least one of them tho. The good part in my eyes is that even tho this will kill off legacy gear, but going forward still seems like a decent option for mixing and matching components. It is probably how Shimano's gravel line should have started years ago, instead of trying to hack a road groupset for the job.

Some one make a cheap and decently light square taper crank supporting 46 and 40 for big rings, and 30 and 24 for the small ring . and front deraileur. with options for 8-9-10 speed rings, with 165-170-172.5-175 crank lenghts, and you have basically created everything that non-racing cyclist would need. Replaceable rings for longevity, on standard BCD-s. That's all. folks. 11-28, 12-32 or even 11-34 8 and 9 speed casettes are a plenty and cheap. This gives you 28 km/h @ 60rpm for the 40-11, which i guess is enough for most casual riders, while it gives sub 20 gear inches for climbing. I rode a 1x8 40/11-34 for a year, and it was great for city use, just missing the gearing for the more serious climbs. That second ring would give that even with touring equipment. The 46-30 would be the more speed focused solution but paired with the 34 tooth casette it would still give you a sub 1 climbing ratio, which would make 12-15% short grades still doable. so a 46x30 would be my choice for the road bikes of the people. Aluminium crankarms, 2 replaceable rings, square taper. Should be doable with a pricing of $60 chainrings included, within a 800-ish gramms weight limit.

I understand your point. But the way that things are right now, the 9 shifters just dont work with 10/11/12 speed derailleurs. There is two standards for shimano (7/8/9 speeds and 10/11/12 speeds) and they needed to choose one to "move". I agree that no backwards compatibility is bad, but i think that unifying it all is better. In countries like Brazil (where i live in) is almost impossible to get parts form the brands that you mention in your videos and when you find it, it costs almost the same of a Deore or SLX. Have a big brand making a groupset that i can mix components like a good 46/32 crankset with a wide range cassete is great because i can finaly make my projects work. From here is very expensive get some things like a cable pull converter to use wide range derailleurs with dropbar or a good 46/30 crankset. To upgrade a 2x9 speed to a 2x10 or 2x11 i need to change almost the entire groupset and with Cues i can just change the rear shifter and cassete. I know that the Cues family introduce some problems, but in my point view it comes with much more solutions than problems.

I wonder how that will look like in the road bike market... the lower tiers like Sora/Tiagra could use an upgrade but Cues seems to be kind of a one-fits-all approach and "durable by design", so cassettes are pretty massive to better cope with torque on e-bike builds. Not sure another 100-200g matter on 10 kg entry-level road bike, but I still to see a modern, mechanical 105 update.

Where do we go from here? Well, in my case: - won't be buying any more new Shimano components (except chains and cassettes for the groupsets I already have) - will buy (aka hoard) as many second-hand components as I can in order to maintain my current bikes for the next 10+ years - will probably give a chance to any manufacturer pushing mechanical and relatively lightweight road groupsets with a decent ergonomics (Sensah, L-Twoo or Microshift aren't there yet in terms of ergonomics, but may be one day)

@11robotics

Жыл бұрын

@@cjohnson3836 no, because modern Internet is a few hundred times faster for a nearly similar (if not lower) cost. Modern bike technology on the other hand? Not so much. Disc brakes don't make me faster yet they cost shitloads more, electronic gears don't make me faster, yet they cost shitloads more, absurd cable integration doesn't make me faster, yet it costs shitloads more. Lighter groupsets from 10 years ago may not make me any faster either, yet they cost significantly less. Try finding a better metaphor next time. Like the idea of driving a 10 or 20 years old car. Which I did, would still do, and I totally don't mind. Not everybody is a consumerist sheep who *must* absolutely buy and use the most recent tech. Older one and particularly cheaper one is good enough in many cases. For what it's worth, if somebody asked me whether I'm willing to pay twice the cost to get 2 Gbps Internet instead of the 1 Gbps one I already have, I'd tell them to go fish. My current connection is fast enough to allow me to read strangers' opinions on how literally anything that is more modern is automatically so much better than anything it replaces that it justifies the extra cost. So thanks, but no thanks.

@josephfarrugia2350

Жыл бұрын

@@11robotics fantastic elocution, very well put.

@petesmitt

Жыл бұрын

CUES is for OEM future new bikes; Shimano will still make the older components for some time yet.

@11robotics

Жыл бұрын

@@petesmitt "some time yet" doesn't make me feel any better, especially given all the supply issues (in Europe at least) that have been going on since COVID.

My excitement for CUES might still be stokable depending on pricepoint. Everyone was stoked on Microshift, but their shifters aren't compatible across advent and don't have 11 speed (at least not advertised as compatible). It is still a little bummer for the reasons Russ sites, though. I really think shimano engineering is better, but they could take a few notes from Sram for marketing and user desires. Especially now that sram seems to be able to make a front derailleur.

Thanks for the update. Things are only going up and squeezing every bit of money they can out of the consumer as possible.

@Jacob99174

Жыл бұрын

The usual theme….

I'd be curious to know the cable situation in the shifter itself because as we all know that sharp turn the cable makes really puts a lot of wear and stress on the cable itself. The Ultegra lineup has this issue for sure.

Ordered upgrades for my Mongoose Switchback Sport 2019 with Shimano Cues U6000 goupset (6 pcs 10-speed), along with Shimano's MT200 hydraulic brakes set (F+R) and SR Suntour XCR32 RLR Air suspension fork. Hoping with these upgrades I am good for another 3+ years. I am not at extreme ends, rather cross country with some mounting. All these upgrades cost me less than USD350 + another ~USD75 or so for service.

I feel like I am riding a dinosaur. Flat bars with friction thumb shifters, 8 speed components, 26 inch wheels.

@5891jonathan

Жыл бұрын

That is the bike that Ogg the Caveman rode. 😊

@kentslonaker7151

Жыл бұрын

Man, I’ve got an ‘87 Raleigh with Suntour Accushift, it’s all good.

@petesmitt

Жыл бұрын

I've got three 90's steel mountain bikes; unbreakable.. I just keep replacing the consumables.

@5891jonathan

Жыл бұрын

I also have a bike I bought new in 1972 (!). Reynolds 531 tubing, Nervex lugs, Campagnolo Nuovo Record derailleur and front mech, 5-speed , etc.. I ride ot once in awhile.

@CPD0123a

Жыл бұрын

One of my bikes is a 1994ish Mongoose with trigger shifters, 3x7, megarange freewheel, 26er, flat bar w bullhorn, but I love it! Not the best for all trails, but it does the best on the trail that I ride the most.

I wonder whether the compatibility issues will be fixed with some kind of cable pull ratio adjuster. Is this even technically possible? Do share if you know.

I'm looking forward to this even more now.

Sram's Exact Actuation, which is present in most of the pre-11spd MTB lineup, utilizes 1:1 ratio. Does this mean that i.e. Sram 10 spd shifter will be compatible with this Shimano Cues 10spd derailleur?

Hello, great informative videos! You mentioned something about buying your RAD components in the description below, but I don't see anything. Maybe I misunderstood. Thanks. BTW, you should register that brand as yours before some unscrupulous jerk does.

1:1? hold up does that mean it'll work with SRAM 1:1? Personally I think it would be really cool if they could just make every single drivetrain 1:1 now so you could forever mix and match

Let's be honest - Shimano needs to do this reset becouse of making all pulling ratios and stuff. So for me it's a good thing they decided to make this simple. And they will be compatible with some Sram stuff xD

I would like to hope that it would really help make entry level MTBs and gravel bikes better, but knowing most OEMs they're just gonna toss on Tourney. On the downside you may see it pop up on bikes that have been coming with Deore 10 and 11 speed

Any unified groupset beyond 9 speed would always break the 2:1 compatibility. The performance just isn't there, especially if you're wanting indexed shifting. If it were possible, one of the groupset manufacturers would have done it (sram, shimano, microshift, sensah, s-ride, etc). Shimano tried with 10 speed road, but the teething problems forced them to adopt 1.4 cable pull even for 10 speed tiagra 4700 and grx 400.

@brannmacfinnchad9056

Жыл бұрын

That's only on the newest Tiagra. And the shifting on the previous gen worked just fine.

@froseph85

Жыл бұрын

@@brannmacfinnchad9056 it works fine for external shift cables but not great for hidden shift cables routed along the handlebars. The increased friction from the bends in the housing causes poor shifting. It was fine for the speed 105 5600 and ultegra 6600 which were both externally routed. When they came out with with 10 speed 105 5700 and ultegra 6700 with hidden shift cables routed along the handlebars people complained about the poor shifting performance from the extra friction. Shimano then updated the shift ratio in following generation which was 11 speed 5800 and 6700 and backported it to tiagra when they updated tiagra 4600 (external shift cables) to tiagra 4700 hidden shift cables. Fwiw, SRAM also broke backward compatibility at 10 speed road, porting their 1:1 mtb tech to road. Mtb groupsets made an explicit change 10 speed generation as they recognized the higher likelihood of dirt / grime being introduced into the drivetrain, creating increased friction and poor shifting. You can keep backwards compatibility by finding ways to reduce friction with external routing or down tube shifter, or by opting to remove indexed shifting and go all friction, but these solutions are less attractive for the masses and bike manufacturers that Shimano is targeting this groupset towards.

I was about to buy Cues u400 crankset and wanted to pair it with Shimano Sora drivetrain 9 speed. But because they say that Cues uses 11 spd chain, will it actually work good with 9 speed chain?

Hey Russ. Sorry you mentioned you listed the components of the RAD in the description but I don't see them. In fact, I have that same crankset, based on your recommendation, so please tell us what are your compatible components. Thanks!

A big opportunity for Archer components to shine in this space!

thumb shifters can be modified to have the same pull ratio, or use friction shifters and no issue at all

Good analysis, thanks! Any word on a 12 speed cassette?

How do we join the Discord server? The 2020 PLP Facebook link doesn't work. Thanks.

Russ's Alternative Direction: the path less pedaled Really Awesome Dude

This seemed so exciting at the start, but as more details came out..... I suppose it was always too good to be true. Guess I'm off to raid the bike co-op for parts....

@VeloObscura

Жыл бұрын

@@cjohnson3836 - No, because I would never waste my money on an iPhone. 👍

@VeloObscura

Жыл бұрын

@@cjohnson3836 - That's not really relevant, but you do you. 👍

Mix groups set is so 90’s MTB. Russ!

Rad Dude! I dig it. I am an eclectic bicycle enthusiast and I typically run friction shifters on a myriad of different components. I am constantly experimenting with "cross pollination", if you will, and I have found that there are a bunch of cool things that are possible with older gear much like your wake. The problem comes when big bicycle MFG'ers are trying to make $$$. I was Stoked to initially hear about the new CUES system, from you, and now I am just bummed about it. Well I can always just keep what I am doing which it using old parts to make cool bikes but I can only introduce a limited amount of new tech. before I hit a wall created by the bicycling industry. Sad in a way if you asked me. PS. Great work on your channel. Even if I don't agree with you on several things we are kindred spirits in the bicycling click, and I love you for that. Cheers Sir.

Are the chainrings riveted to the cranks ?

many years ago I bought new and second hand many shifters 2/3 x 8 and dearilleur, deore, deore lx (9 speed but it's fine), acera, alivio and I have many 90's deore and exage. They will works forever. The problem is to find wheels and all the other stuff, it's complicated

Russ, I don't see the link for RAD in the description.

ah thats really disappointing actually. Well I hope some smaller businesses can step up although from what I hear getting around the endless patents makes it nearly impossible.

Where’s the ‘Save the Legacy’ stickers Russ? 😂

They had to shift up at some time. Improved dérailleurs F & R is a plus while keeping?? 6,7,8 speed longevity. How many MTB frames will accomodate FD's , even with adapter.

It can seem confusing and overwhelming, hence frustrating, but as Russ shows with his “RAD group set”, there are many more choices and options that were simply not available even just 10 yrs ago. I brought a $100 CL bike into a LBS and the bike was older than the mechanic. He had no clue how to work on it and so we went over some KZread videos and we figured it out. What I figured out is that I’m starting to buy used bike tools off CL and doing the work myself! Found a great Park work stand tripod WITH a rim trueing attachment for $50. I’ll probably start off screwing things up before doing things right; but that’s called life lessons. Russ, trademark your “RAD” logo ! ✌️👍😎

Is that rivetted chainring on cranks?

eh... I don't think any of us were going to go for brand new entry level groupset parts anyways. I think a lot of the hype around 9/10spd going on now is because of the fun involved with bin-digging & deal hunting that the used/NOS market provides. In theory the 1:1 cable pull will also make the shifting a little more accurate, so while it definitely is going to add some proprietary fucky-ness, it'll hopefully provide a better product. On the entry level stuff where manufacturing tolerances aren't as strict, any imperfections in the shifter will have half the effect on the RD now.

Five years from now it will seem weird that groupsets were done “the old school way back in the day.” Suggest leaving the bike world behind for five years and getting a pilots license. At that point the bicycle industry will have move to the future and the most frustrating problem’s of the bike world will not even fire up a single neuron after dealing with the regulations, acquisition cost, currency training, insurance, coming up with money in $10 k increments for maintenance & upgrades.

Here's a question for you which I've been poking at; according to the website; theoretically, old (pre-2014?) Campagnolo has the same 1.4/1 pull ratio as modern 10-11 spd Shimano. Have you or anyone else actually attempted it?

3rd parties will support 1:1 pull ratio soon enough. Unifying everything will make it easier for 3rd party suppliers I'd think. Also the market wil open up for people with old equipment in need of replacement parts.

Lol. I'll stick with my 3x10 on my specialized secteur. 3 speed Claris front and 10 speed sram gx in the rear. It's funky but great when loaded for bikepacking.

cues mean laying off employees, a bigger workspace after the machines for making sora, tiagra, tourney are gone, et cetera. will this be good for us?

Even though I have and old fixed/SS bike I never got into it. But all this stuff has me thinking I should.

The 1 to 1 will make it compatible with gx and nx 10 and 11 speed dérailleurs lol

Makes sense since they're moving on electronic groupset. Just bundle up all mechanical groupset and be done.

Any info on it they will still produce legacy chains/cassettes (GF wants to keep her Sora running smoothly indefinitely)?

@PathLessPedaledTV

Жыл бұрын

Supposedly for the next 5-7 years.

1:1 ratio means it’s compatible with SRAM ‘exact actuation’ parts though?!

If Shimano is inexcusable for doing this, wait till you hear about what electronics companies are doing with smartphones, PCs and so on. That being said, hope this makes to some entry gravel bikes. Cues shift slower, but serious racing bikes from now on are probably going to be using electric shifting because pros don't mind spending all that money on proprietary parts since they get sponsors. I am just glad more bikes will be cross compatible.

The lower tiers will keep going on with the Walmart/target level bikes short of them going with Ltwoo brand. There are still bikes that are freewheel and not use an HG hub.

RADUNO is also an italian word which means randez-vous. It would be a great brand for Randonneurs

Technically Sram, Sensah & Ltwoo 11 speed is using 1:1 shift ratio. So it would be compatible with CUES.

@spinningtrue

Жыл бұрын

I'm not sure that's true, Sram is 1.1:1 so if Shimano Cues is exactly 1:1 it will be a little off...

@themoodyteam

Жыл бұрын

@@spinningtrue most drivetrains are a little ‘off’…

@rodrames2462

Жыл бұрын

Riv is just calling Shimano 11s MTB 1:1 they were testing with a m5100 derailleur and called it 1:1.

So Shimano will apply 11 speed spacing and parts whenever they can which is going to reduce manufacturing costs as it's cheaper to manufacture a huge number one of thing than smaller number of different things, but what is the benefit to end user? All the Shimano rear derailleurs up to 9 speed are already compatible witch all the shifters as long as number of gears matches so now there will be another standard not compatible with that produced with 11 speed spacing so things are going to get more expensive (look at the prices of 8 vs 11 speed chains).

Any link to the UNO shifters?

The reason they did this was likely to accommodate the 11-speed rear spacing, which for indexing really needs the lower shift ratio. It’s also likely that the 1:1 ratio is really the 1.2:1 ratio found on 10+ speed MTB RDs. It all still sucks for friction compatibility, of course. Maybe we should just forget all of this silliness and install Nivex RDs on our bikes.

Its 6 months later and i have not seen any bikes with Cues drivetrains yet.

love it!

Aren’t SRAM 10sp road/mtb and 11sp road shifters 1:1? Would those be compatible?

@PathLessPedaledTV

Жыл бұрын

They theoretically are. But time will tell if they actually work.

Modern gear complexities are just getting more and more ridiculous I fear. Personally I've escaped the whole gear compatibility rat race by sticking with single speed. For "party pace" riding, I absolutely love not just the simplicity, but also the noticeable gains in efficiency (lighter weight, less frictional losses). I'm quite happy to walk up some steeper hills (I use flat pedals) and freewheel occasionally.

@petesmitt

Жыл бұрын

that's why the old single speed bikes were called push bikes; you pushed them up hills.

@joules531

Жыл бұрын

@@petesmitt There's a 60 mile circular route I do quite regularly, in rolling terrain, and my single speed is marginally faster. I ride a single speed 53x22, to ensure that those frictional losses are as low as possible, and it just feels super smooth.

Where is the link to the R.A.D. drive train?

The key word is consolidation. Hence the old will be erased to make a standard an actual standard

I like the idea. adoption will come down to price among enthusiasts....if priced high, i'm perfectly happy sticking with my LTwoo AX11 11 speed setup.

Sprockets are thicker for motorized applications. Would a 9 speed Cues cassette weigh a lot more than the current 9 speed? Friction shifters might be able to pull that far since we are skipping the last two gears. "Lighter is Better" -- Hubbub Bicycles

If it is all true, CUES are literally modern regular MTB shimano components only with much wider cogs of cassette. And teoreticly its greate. You can take your 10 or 11 speed Deore and mix it with new drop bar CUES shifters and be happy with it.

If friction shifting is wrong, I don't want to be right.

And looks like new cues is compatible with old sram x5/7/9. Those also was 1:1 ratio :)

@PathLessPedaledTV

Ай бұрын

That is all speculation and theory until someone tries it.

You said “Links in the description” for more info on R.A.D., but didn’t add those links. 😬

@watertankhikes

Жыл бұрын

Check out Velo Orange for the Sensah (Sunshine) cassettes.

i dont know why you would use a different shifter for the RD 😅 cues i think is compatible for cues only

@PathLessPedaledTV

10 ай бұрын

If you want to use drops with cues 🤷🏽‍♂️ Incompatibility is manufactured obsolescence.

CUES is using 1:1 cable ratio? AWESOME, you can use old SRAM shifters 9 speed with "legacy" cassetes. The compatibility is with this new hyperglyde plus we already have today. Probably we'll have road shifters with cues, it'll be even better in the long run. The other issue you are not considering is the price tag. DEORE is already an awesome price for the hole groupset. Cues should be way lower price, so it'll be even better deal.

So CUES will be compatible with current Shimano 11 & 12 SP mountain bike derailleurs?

@PathLessPedaledTV

Жыл бұрын

Maybe.

@watertankhikes

Жыл бұрын

@@PathLessPedaledTV I'm trying to figure out why CUES (LINKGLIDE) wouldn't be compatible with the current Shimano 11 speed MTB systems. They apparently use the same 1:1 pull ratios, and the 11 speed chains are cross compatible. Maybe CUES (LINKGLIDE) rear derailleurs have a slightly different design to accommodate the taller teeth on the CUES (LINKGLIDE) cassettes? Or is it just marketing?

@PathLessPedaledTV

Жыл бұрын

@@watertankhikes there was one post on NSMB where someone tested linkglide and it shifts but does so poorly.

Assuming it actually IS a new standard. Shimano 10/11 speed MTB/Dyna-sys pull ratio is pretty close to 1:1 ... as close to 1:1 as 1.7 is to 2 at any rate. Is it possible that CUES is actually using the MTB pull ratio? I wouldn't expect Shimano to confirm it but I wouldn't be surprised either. If it were the case then it wouldn't Be so bad. If CUES brifters come out they may actually work with Shimano Dyn-sys rear detailleurs.

Crazy how the cycling media don't even acknowledge a cycling product when they don't get money from it. No one is talking about CUES and it looks like a big deal to me. I wonder if one would try pairing the linkglide cassette with traditional 11 speed components.

Long live RAD! , Looking forward to Uno

You won`t be able to mix with drivetrain components from higher end groupsets.For instance I have a mix of Meganine SLX shifters,Deore FD M592 front mech and Deore XT RD M772 rear mech.I think it all about having user spend much more money if he wants better performing parts.I rather stick with 3X9 and can buy a new aftermarket or HG cassette for under 15$

is it going to be as robust as tiagra? because i understand cues is made for ebikes. you don't need to be athletic to sprint uphill with an ebike

Let's call your version, compatible with the new Shimano groupset CUESUNORAD!

So, Sram 11x index shifters will work with CUES, yeah?

@watertankhikes

Жыл бұрын

Well SRAM 11 speed Mtn shifters work just fine already with Shimano Mtn derailleurs and 11 speed cassettes, so maybe? (Or maybe not?)

@rodrames2462

Жыл бұрын

No, riv rounded down Shimano 11s MTB to 1:1. They're just being loose with the math. Edit They were testing with a HG deore 5100 not a link glide setup.

its a prospective cross compatibility!