This is really an argument??? Really??? Even the MASTERS used references!! Holy shit I can’t believe there are people that actually argue against using references. Wow.

@wordydird

Жыл бұрын

Right? Like. It's simple as don't steal anyone's works! That's it. I maybe see why there could be an argument for not needing references showing skill and knowledge or whatever but.. That's it

@LowYummy

Жыл бұрын

do people fr think Da Vinci didn’t use a reference when painting the Mona Lisa, THE MOST FUCKING RECOGNIZABLE PAINTING OF ALL TIME

@charles-rl7op

Жыл бұрын

SAME!!!

@brendonli5220

2 ай бұрын

why do some artist call people out on social media when someone uses the same pose? like nohting else is copied but just the pose. This makes me hesistant to use references :/

@TheHitsubasa

2 ай бұрын

@@brendonli5220 just ignore people like that. You can’t claim poses.

In all of my art classes, we HAVE to use references. Its because it helps to improve the anatomy of your artwork.

All my life I refused to use reference. I thought it was cheating; that it meant that I couldn't draw, that I wasn't a good enough artist because I couldn't just draw the thing from my head without looking. I cannot emphasise how much this way of thinking completely stunted my artistic journey and growth. It wasn't until I was 25 and I saw videos of DISNEY ANIMATORS from the 50's drawing from references!!! That ALL THEIR MOVIES USED REFERENCE!!! I was SHOCKED!!! Some of the animations were shot-for-shot takes of the live action reference actors to the point where you could tell exactly the scenes in the movies they were acting out and this blew me away. IF DISNEY CAN USE REFERENCE, THEN SO CAN I!!!! A paradigm shift happened for me in that moment. Ever since using reference, my art has skyrocketed from where it was!!! The anatomy is correct, the forms are great, and the colours are phenomenal. Comparing my art from 3 years ago to now the difference is INSANE!!!!

@jasonmatthewart

4 ай бұрын

Yeah this is such a dumb view of things. Art isn’t a memory game

Gonna be honest, I think I need to watch more stuff based on art because I didn't know anything about those reference sites. Other than stock photos, I usually went to Pinterest or Google for reference pin boards.

As someone who has Aphantasia, every step of the drawing process, uses references in someway Base sketch/rough idea - I use a math compass (or whatever they're called), to draw a circle for the head. Referencing some circles I drew before, for the head size - I look at a reference, for a pose I want to draw. Usually from EasyPose or a picture - If I don't feel like drawing a pose, but a headshot. I'll look at pictures for emotions. Usually from Pinterest, other artists, are manga Body - The way I draw bodies, is inspired by Panty & Stockings. So I look at two (sometimes more) separate "Reference sheets" of various pictures of characters from the show - Alternatively, if I feel like drawing Sonic, I'll look at "reference sheets" I made for him Character/finer details - Depending on the character, I'll look at reference sheets I made for them Also. For when I create a character, I use references for them, too. Usually depending on the type of character - For furry characters, I look at how other artists drew the animal, in an anthro style - I also use an app, called Monster Girl Marker 2, to get a general idea of how a character will look I also sometimes use this, for things like the hair and colour palette For human characters. Well, I only did one, and they're a kemonomini but how I did it was - I used various character creator apps, to get the general idea out/refere for things like the pants or shirt ... Basically, I use references a lot I even have "sheets" dedicated to things like tails, ears, etc Now, when it comes to the actual picture, the only ones I don't share, are vent art. Mainly NSFW vent art. Simply because I heavily reference one specific art piece, for the pose/composition/etc (I'd rather not make my own references. And most of the time, I can't)

@nebunnix2361

Жыл бұрын

I also have aphantasia and can second this, a memory reference is not possible and therefore visual references are vital to be successful at anything remotely accurate

@TheRealPunkachu

Жыл бұрын

I have aphantasia too!!! So nice to hear others’ experiences. I have a hyper-active imagination and come up with weird, wacky ideas that don’t ever tend to line up directly with references. But I need to use them all the time anyway because I can’t even visualize the basic shapes I need. Here’s a tip for anyone else with aphantasia reading this. Try Pixel Art!! The way you can make small changes that greatly change the composition of a piece with ease, is REALLY super helpful if you have aphantasia. I have a much easier time with it than big canvas digital art.

@reginaldforthright805

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for telling everyone what a hack, fraud, and loser you are.

hi! i don’t really have anything to say but hope all of you are having a good day :)

@PillowWillow007

Жыл бұрын

*Coughs in COVID*

@Imjustkendall

Жыл бұрын

@@PillowWillow007 STOP COUGHING IN THE COMMENTS WITHOUT A MASK! /j i hope u get better soon friend :[

@PillowWillow007

Жыл бұрын

@@Imjustkendall I'm the only person in my family that wears a mask

@ReesesBees

Жыл бұрын

@@PillowWillow007 Oof, that's rough. Get plenty of rest, drink lots of fluids, take medicine and have a speed recovery!

@Imjustkendall

Жыл бұрын

@@PillowWillow007 OOP- good in you for being smart, I’m so sorry that’s rough. Sending cookies? 🍪🍪🍪

I’m just putting my two cents out before watching the video. Using reference isn’t unethical, and is in fact a very common tool used by all kinds of artists to help them with proportions, poses, color, composition, etc. The issue is people blatantly copying another artist’s work and excusing their behavior as simply using the original work as reference, obfuscating the issue and making more naive artists assume that plagiarism and reference are one and the same.

When it comes to using references, I was told in my art class to change it at least 50% from the original. So that is what I try and do, of course I think for art studies using a photo and drawing it can be super super helpful!

As somebody who started using references recently, HOLY SHIT DID IT HELP. I used to think it was “cheating” and “not the real way” but references have been used since the RENAISSANCE ERA. I put the references to the side to get a good grasp on the anatomy (I recommend easypose). I don’t directly trace it, but USE REFERENCES THEY MAKE LIFE SO MUCH EASIER.

I personally don't understand why people say using references is cheating. How else are artists gonna learn? Usually when it comes to tracing vs referencing, (at least in my opinion) it depends on how much of the original is copied. Idk if that makes sense or not. I also don't think someone can copy another person's style. I never will understand why people think you can.

One of the most shocking differences in reference use is looking back to Renaissance paintings when women weren't allowed in the studio. Male models would strap stuff to their chests so the artists could paint women and the results were ...less than ideal. Next time you see a painting and go "wow thats not what ladies look like naked" that would be why.

This guy got mad at my friend because they drew a fold in the clothing that looked similar to his. And that my friend's style was actually His, but he couldn't even confront them himself He got his girlfriend to confront my friend instead.

@artisticangel5795

Жыл бұрын

I think maybe the guy was just overthinking it… 🤔 You can’t exactly report a person for coincidence. Don’t know what to tell him or his girlfriend. :/

I will admit I've used other artist's work as references, however I only did it when I thought "Oh! The way they draw this part is neat" and not copy the whole thing

I’m currently in school for animation and we’re encouraged to use as many references as possible, especially since we’re all still learning. If you encourage people not to use references at all you’re encouraging them to stagnate artistically.

Honestly I am so glad I do not have any socials aside from Discord because pretty much all of my earliest pieces of art from when I started digital two years ago was traced. I had no idea at the time that it was so controversial and just traced to figure out how digital art even worked lol. Glad to say nowadays I have been working on drawing using reference and practices instead of importing and tracing, and my art skills have been steadily improving.

I can’t draw people so I use those sketch models, the ones that just have a person with no features or anything, i enjoy drawing dresses. I tend to do the same for people I’ll take a real photo of a person make some reference lines where there eyes and nose and mouth should go, and sometimes outline hair, the more I do it the closer I am to being able to do it without the reference lines, in art there is no such thing as cheating, plagiarism, yes but at the same time if you copy or trace someone else art as long you don’t post it I don’t see the harm and if you do post it give the original artist some acknowledgment. There’s also a fun thing people are doing where they take a cartoon character and they turn it into themselves or a famous person, typically they draw over a pre existing character and that’s technically tracing so art is art is art is art. I was in IB art in high school, it’s an advanced art class, but reference is one of the most important things we learned, we had a skeleton in our room and we would have to draw it, it was a exercise that was very helpful, we learned that our most famous artists in history used references, objects, people, places, if you don’t use references that doesn’t make you a better artist, it makes you a different kind of artist.

I think reference is in lighter gray area but there's a word called "steal the ideas but don't plagiarize them".

Some really famous fantasy painters, known for their anatomy, literally paint over the top of blown up copyrighted photos from men's magazines.

If anyone needs a decent place to get royalty free reference images without having to pay, a website I was introduced to by a graphic designer I worked with was unsplash. The photos are free use so long as you give credit (the site comes with a button to copy the exact credits photographers want you to use!)

Me and my friend started making our first ocs when we were 11-12 for DuckTales (2017). We always traced other fanart, official art, and even hair and clothes from other shows and ocs. The thing was is we never posted it or claimed it as our own. I would have never started making ocs or art if I hadn’t done this and it was one of the most useful experiences I’ve had in art. Now I practice new poses by taking a picture making a few circles for different parts of the body to map out the skeleton and use that for reference. It really helps me learn new skills and I’m really glad I didn’t decide to force myself not to. As long as you aren’t posting the art, I think it’s okay and I personally wouldn’t be half the artist I am without it.

I have no problem using references myself, but usually with photos i have taken or paid for (free sites often have photos that are stolen). i encourage new artists to use references to help with their skills, its better to draw from life but that is not always possible. using refs is not cheating, we need to learn somehow

I just want to halfway-in-topic put in a quote I heard from a teacher. "You should never paint on a canvas. You should always paint on a 3-dimensional object that is beyond the canvas." and combine it with a Kin Jung Gi quote, "Don't draw what you see, draw what you have seen." So we could say that the most important part is always to construct the actual object in your head and references are a great help for getting visual information for specific things. I do find using references a negative influence many times so I always aim to rely on them as little as I can while using them to make things as correct as possible. My works wouldn't be half as good without references, but I always start with a clear idea to not be way too influenced by any references and use them to fill the gaps in what I already know. Also most of my pose references are 3d models that I pose myself in Daz Studio and most of my hand poses are pictures of my own hands. Fortunately, I have rather feminine hands that fit my mostly female characters. Also I never trace over them, I simply think it breaks the cohesion of my pictures, even if they would mostly be technically better if I traced them.

I honestly don’t like when artists say to newer artists “just practice or whatever.” Yeah, but… Watch videos, look at art books, references!! Your style comes out of what little bits and pieces your brain remembers from the stuff you learn along the way! OK? NO it’s not cheating, you’re brain isn’t just going to figure out how to draw good without it seeing from something else. Yes when you’re more skilled you can take something from your mind directly to paper and it can look perfect but those skilled artists you admire had to learn how body proportions work, and tips for drawing hands. It’s not talent, the only talent artists have is the will to create. Everything else is skill.

I use 3d models I make sometimes, to help with anatomy. Somehow,, someone accused me of tracing, over that instance. I use an app called magic poser to make the 3d models and I also post them for others to use as well! I'm wondering if this is actually considered tracing or not?? Honestly, I would love to hear your opinion on something like this!!

@Azura_Shades

Жыл бұрын

I'd want to know this too. I use that same app to help my own anatomy, but I think it depends. Do you trace the outline of the model itself, or do you just use the pose to create the skeleton for your piece?

@llamasmeowing2061

Жыл бұрын

That’s a tough question, and I used to think it was a little unfair, but you’re still doing it yourself and adding things on top, I’m fine with anything except flat out tracing or AI personally

@sailorenthusiast

Жыл бұрын

Wait, there are people who legitimately believe using 3d models as reference is bad? I mean, it can act as a crutch when relied on too much, but it’s not unethical. You aren’t stealing anyone’s work. You’re using the models for their intended purpose.

@ReesesBees

Жыл бұрын

If it's to learn and practice things like anatomy, then no, it's not tracing. Especially if you link where you got the models from and who made them.

@YukioShei

Жыл бұрын

@@ReesesBees I do link the models in my description every time I want to post a Speedpaint where the art used a model!

Interesting and helpful video! I almost exclusively draw my OCs or real people on a stylized way, so the only references I ever use are poses and occasionally clothes. But I’ve been wondering recently about how I use poses because I more or less just put down the stick figure lines over them, resize them to my piece, and then it’s a lot of sketch and erase until I can get them reproportioned to my style (since a *lot* of poses I find usually learn more toward realistic proportions or chibi proportions, I rarely find any that look the way I draw when I don’t reference a pose). It FEELS like tracing sometimes even though I’m not really tracing lmao 😅 Side note: I will never get the style theft thing. I’ve adapted many different aspects of styles I’ve seen others draw into my work to improve it. It was actually your videos that inspired me to have a layer between my shadows and highlights of the flat color to create reflective light (and it’s incredible how much better it all looks with that one simple change!) though I’m pretty sure you erase instead of adding a new layer. Tried it that way, didn’t come out as smoothly, much easier for me to just make it a new layer 😂

Tracing is diffrent then refrence? Refrence is when u take maybe guidelines at most and light refrence I think is the best u can go with refrence but tracing is when you trace art idk just a opimion

This was super helpful to me because I realized I was taking my stance against plagiarism too far. Like the sweater example, I would look up how outfits look to figure out how it should fit on a body or how a dress should look in general and not use the reference if it wasn't free domain (even though I was just trying to figure out a portion of anatomy or how a maid outfit looks in general). I didn't realize it wasn't that strict and that this was allowed. Thank you so much for making this video; I found it super helpful.

As someone who does the "many random images then build off the base entirely on my own" reference strategy, I've always had a lot of impostor syndrome about whether my method counts as "tracing" or "cheating" and hearing this freshened-up perspective makes me feel a lot better. I've always got like 3 or 4 random images stitched together manually, and only grab shapes and relative positions. I also often distort the reference photos a bit to adjust things like perspective, all before I've put any lines down. I've always felt like if I couldn't just freehand my sketch I somehow failed or have somehow been tricking people, because before I started doing higher-caliber work, I'd often start by freehanding the lineart immediately without looking at anything first or during unless I needed to grab colors (such as fanart of a character with a detailed palette)

Thank you for being sane and a reasonable person! I recall years ago getting in trouble in a dA harpg group for tracing over my own photos and the rules on drawing were so strict I left the group cuz I got so stressed and worried about being in trouble. I tend to be one who either free hands entirely or traces multiple pieces loosely, mash together, then figure out what I'm seeking to do on my own. The quality difference between true free hand/ zero reference and multi references frankensteined then worked to tune to me lol As someone who is bad at drawing and doesn't have time/energy realistically to get genuinely good at it, I find AI art a useful tool. It helps me with my usual attempt of mashing traced photo reference features together. I can get a glimpse of what my mind is trying to make and use it as a better base than trying to figure which reference pieces will come together as I want. As a writer, I actually think AI is a tool even in that realm too (writing being another art form). I have way too much content I could write that would never happen with just me, but if I can teach an AI my personal writing style/voice and feed it things then edit and polish for myself later... well that helps me make more of my own content! I will say, too, I tend to be of the mindset that not only is nothing original at this point but we pull from everything around us, realizing it or not. It is impossible to not pull from things we've encountered, and similarly, if we make content we have to understand that it will stick with others, whether they realize it or not, to be able to be used as reference by them without credit etc. That is sort of a "it isn;t fair but that is the way the world is and can't really be changed" situation as many things are but many seem to not understand anymore.

My art has improved so much since I started really using references, it helps so much

I do trace sometimes, especially for things like hands and faces (when I want to get the face just right), but I make sure to not use other people's art and, instead, opt to use either real life or images from 3D games. Just recently I drew Shadowheart from BG3 and took several different references to draw her face, hair, armour, boots and whatnot but I only ever traced the face and a draping part of her clothes. The rest was drawn looking back and forth between references to sort of mix and match what I need. The colour and shading is where I get most of my anguish from drawing.

i find this video very comforting, since i'm currently working on an art trade and used a drawn pose for a reference. for some reason i kept thinking i'd face backlash for stealing the pose when it's such a common one.

I like that you brought up especially the owning an art style, I have seen people claim that you can steal an art style or certain things (such as AI) can steal an art style and I can't help but think to myself no, that's not possible, and every time I bring that up, people try to laugh at me and say it's possible, but when I ask how it's possible, they tell me "look it up" no, that's bullshit, I have done the reasearch, and even without even looking into it, the notion of "stealing a style" is just silly. That's just avoiding what I asked for and they don't actually have an explanation, their response is just fueled by emotion without them actually looking into that claim.

I use references for certain parts of the body that I’m struggling with anatomy-wise. For example, I recently drew a character crouching which I had never really done before. So I traced the legs to get a better look at how it would look, stick it onto the sketch then clean it up. And if I’m doing a more complex fullbody pose, I’ll take a picture of myself and trace it as a “skeleton” and then draw the body over that

i do believe using reference is important, and so is doing it ethically. My only thing is you shouldn't need reference all the time, like, say, if you just wanna draw something for fun and brainless pleasure. Other than that, references should absolutely be used, 100%

typical celestia banger

I was listening to this video while drawing. And when you mentioned Optimus Prime at 23:06 just caught me off guard and I had to laugh for second, because I was drawing Optimus while listening 😆 But I totally agree on drawing from memory and reference, I prefer to do as much as I can from memory first then use a reference to fix things.

Art references should be used for just that, reference. When you present your piece to the public? PROBLEMS! ⭐️

Why is using references even a debate? So stupid. I use references to help learn how to draw differnt positions, characters etc. I struggle immensely to draw without a reference. If you think using a reference is cheating/copying, shame on you

I have to use a visual reference every step of the way too. I hold a pencil wrong as due to my disability so no matter what I do, lines are shakey even with the stabilization tool on all the way. So I have to use models for anatomy accuracy (with my own style filtered in) And I have to have pictures of animals or how hair flows underwater to make sure it's naturally moving and not stick straight. People call me out on it and I shouldn't have to say because of my disability I have to use references and models because they would then say it's a cop out. That's why I don't say I use references. :/ (NOTE: by model I mean Clip Studio Paints Model program built within the app.)

The Moral Issues and Drama around References is why I am also a Hobbyist Doll Photographer along side being a Hobbyist Artist. I don't Trace and I only need to Pose Dolls for well... Poses. Unless I am drawing a Specific real world Location I don't need References for Objects, building, places, ect... unless I have never seen one.

Years ago, I heard about a photographer who sued an artist for using a fashion magazine ad he shot as a reference. I have no idea if the lawsuit was successful or thrown out.

From the first six minutes I was already thinking of two details from art classes I'd taken, one was for a collage in which I'd traced an existing image and the other a Color Theory course where the assignment was to copy an existing (pre-selected) painting and rather than make it a direct 1-to-1 "copy" merely show our skills in duplicating the image. As someone who has always had trouble trying to draw (more taking the "clean" mental image and putting it on paper) I personally don't see tracing of an existing image or the select parts needed for an intended image to be "cheating" as it serves more in that context as improving the steadiness needed for some images and allows the mind to take what it needs to replicate, but since all art (and opinions) are subjective it's likely that even for personal improvement there will be those who see even subtle non-public images as cheating. While watching a KZread video (I think it was from SamDoesArt) saying that using references is necessary as it allows an artist to improve their skill

Sharing my opinion as prompted: To me, it all comes down to intention. I have a gaming channel that at some point I decided to start and draw a good amount of my thumbnails for. I liked the idea and decided it would fit its grassroots nature. However, I quickly understood I am grossly unprepared for that task. I've always been able to compose stuff other people drew or even photo materials but besides drawing like a child, I had no experience with it at all. Hence why I started re-drawing characters of the games I played, tracing them if they were totally foreign in style to what I appreciated etc. To this day I re-draw poses a lot. I am very bad at imagining how certain characters will look when they move and when I am playing the games I rarely pay attention to the art enough to be able to draw from reference. In my case I feel what I am doing is completely okay - even the tracing bits. The generally approved practice in case of gaming channel thumbnails is to make colages from press kit art directly provided by the game studio, screenshots or materials available online. I feel like I am doing the same but worse and more enjoyable. I do not intend my drawings to be a market replacement of the official art of the game, neither they compete with the art of the game. I am not claiming they are entirely my ideas and to every observer it should be obvious that regardless of the fact that I take liberties and make decisions sometimes, what I draw is often super influenced or even directly copying the source material. Had I for example presented my drawings as my own artistic expression or a part of my portfolio as an artist, then it would really not have been as cool. Then again, one might say that my channel is basically my portfolio and the fact that I choose to re-draw stuff instead of getting the official art and using it to piece together a thumbnail is a choice with which I intentionally present myself as someone who has more artistry than actually does. Which is a fair point I just came up with, but I feel it is somewhat nitpicky. I feel as if I am someone who painted his car with the characters of the Gundam anime and pasted a photo of it online. I clearly intended to have my car be pleasing to me and all the Gundam fans that could see it by accident. I really intended to use the art in order to improve my car in a way and bring more value to it. I did not say that I invented the cool robots the car has on its chassis. Would I have been wrong to do it if I sold the Gundam car? I might have been, yes. Would that still have been the case if the Gundam drawings were okay to be used in commercial products and I still re-drew them? I doubt it. However, would I have been wrong if I re-drew not officially usable Gundam images but some other shots from the anime? I don't know. That seems as a very complicated question at this point. I have to stop. I hope you got the general gist of it. It depends mostly on what the person intends.

I remeber i traced an artwork of someones artwork and claimed it as mine to everyone i knew and i regret it horribly i dont know why i did such im an artist that now has a style that is not stealing i mke my own rt now and a person in my class last year asked if he could trace my artwork and claim it was his and i said no even thogh i usualy traced at the time so DONT TRACE OTHERS ART WITHOUT PERMISHION! PLZ

I personally wouldn't mention/promote Rachel Bradley's stuff cuz last I checked she's still married to Noah Bradley, and Noah is the one taking photos, and if you don't know what happened, he was outed as a predator.

I usually draw from mind, but when it comes to tracing, I do it with really thick brush and then I trace the line I did in the first place to hide it was trace. I almost never trace

I never tend to use reference but that’s out of bad habit, I should use them more but even when I do, their barely even reference, just a lose guild of what I want to make, but I guess that’s what reference’s are supposed to be. Usually, I tend to look at my reference before putting the image away and heading over to my canvas, I don’t have them next to the canvas as to keep myself from copying the images and to get things more fit into my style. There’s also the fact that I’m too lazy to actually import the images into my canvases as I draw digitally. Overall, I think references are great, but I don’t think you should rely on them too much. Studies such as breaking down things into shapes and so on are pretty good in my eyes- a great study to put it simply- but tracing over a pose for more finished pieces feels a bit icky to me as I wouldn’t do it myself, it sort of feels like cheating, but that’s only to me. If you wanna trace a pose, as long as you have permission, then do it, just don’t claim you made the pose yourself and give credits to the og, then your good.

I know this isn't related to art, but I love listening to your videos while doing my schoolwork. Something about them makes me more focused than usual :D I hope you and everyone else have a wonderful day.

I’m not an artist but you just made me want to take a picture of myself then trace it

I’ve could’ve gotten sued 😅 thank you for this video 😋

I'm using photos found on the internet but because I alter them in some way (draw them nude or more clothed, or change some feature of the pose, or expanding the image from just a torso pic to full 3/4 body) can I claim the drawing for my own or I have to guve credit for the pose/bodyshape/etc? If you see them side by side you will notice some familiar features but standalone you probably not.

I use the app magic poser for poses as I draw on my phone and it is difficult to determine everything when ur using ur finger to draw. Is it wrong to use a 3d model and have something small like the eye style not match? I was banned for a few days in using any work with models being used cuz it was considered "tracing" when magic poser is meant for that-- and yes shapes are used not just full tracing the body

If you need a good example of plagiarism then look up Dandingeroz's art. He straight up turns images from google or the source material into silhouettes. The only transformation he'll do is to turn it into his unique "double negative space" style while adding in stock images, Japanese text, and Japanese waves. He also takes it a step further and will sell people's art at conventions and on online stores.

Unfortunately I don't know how draw complex poses, so I use bases to help me learn how to do so, so do I need your input about this actions, I use pintest to find bases, I don't use my style because I don't know how to use it with bases I post videos of my drawings and I make sure that I say that I use bases, and I use gacha club to make my own base and make the picture better

My rough gage: Does it look like the same thing

i would like to say something about tracing, there is only one way it is actually helpfull, and it is for practice, for example me, i often trace bases for hands so i can learn how to draw hands better, however, i do NOT post any of it, because i would be claiming something that isnt mine as my own

non important nit pick but just had to say; senshi stock has been rebranded to adorka stock

The way I see it now is ever since Ai art has become a thing now almost everything is fair game when it comes to making art. I still don’t believe in blatantly stealing others work and claiming it as your own though.

When I draw cats, I trace one cat I drew from scratch so it speeds my drawing since it is hard to draw cats (yes, they are all the same pose).

hey uhm pro artists, I have a question, I am a beginner artist I want to know if tracing references (not others art I mean like you take a photo of yourself and trace that) and then drawing on top of it, would I be able to still say I drew it, or would I have to say I traced it?

I don't have a problem with references as long as your not tracing

what i trace is sonic x screenshots. usually just to make them hd or fix animation errors

heya! My cat wants to kill me right now, so send help and chips.

23:22 Really tracing as a learning tool is about building muscle memory in order to draw anything in a way that look decent in the first place. Trying to say that it’s incredibly childish to try and act like it’s just as bad as tracing over someones art and trying to pass it off as being completely your own.

I have to confess that I used to be the kind of artist who thought drawing from memorized references alone was far superior, whether or not the outcome looked better than an actual referenced piece. I've come to realize that was a narrow view and I wasn't improving as much when I did look up references, and so I stopped relying on memory alone and learned to appreciate referencing from various sources. I think that referencing can benefit any artist, so long that they know the difference between referencing and copying, how far of whichever side they wanna lean towards and what that may mean to them.

Ex-cheater here, here's my interpretation of the rules: Tracing is okay so long as it is a small element, just make sure you can translate it to be distinct enough from the reference For example, in my line of work (Pixel Art), legally, any piece I downscale and trace can be legally considered transformative enough to defend me from a lawsuit, however, in an ethical standpoint, people probably should not do it extensively. (The closest I get anymore is downscaling something for reference if I have issues translating a ref)

@HYPERxSONICxFANx2012

Жыл бұрын

i've traced sonic x screenshots. the goal is to make them hd because why not. sometimes i have no ideas and just want to color

I'm sorta in a crisis state rn. I read people saying it's so obvious to think using references isn't cheating, but I can't help myself thinking it sorta is. If two people are passing an exam and one person look at the cheatsheet to answer questions, how can he be considered better? Well unless the person reinterprets the anatomy... If great artists use references, one can say than you should too, but doesn't that make their drawings less impresive? I'm pretty sure if each artist images were shown with each reference used, it would be less impressive suddenly... unless I'm missing the value of drawing since artists aren't literally printers. Finally, is one goal of using references is to improve one's drawing intuition? If one uses references every time in the sole goal of just drawing better, than why one says it helped them to improve their art if they don't need to improve but just copy references since they are at their disposal anytime... Sorry for the rant, I just feel like if I'm using references without understanding them I bring no value and if I don't use references and I'm sub-optimal and I cannot reconciliate these two thoughts together.

memorize forms, that's what will make you use reference, not depend on it. big difference, between an advanced and intermediate artist.

I just dont use references, to much work

I like references.

@MasterGxt

3 ай бұрын

Who doesn't.

I usually reply with "Ohnyo! The drawing gods are going to give me a failing grade😒"

Well... Just sponsorship deep into the video.... We all reference things, even if it is from our mind's eye. Even celebrated artists used tools to basically trace with paintings. But, I'm more wondering about legal repercussions (given some recent MTG card art drama)

If you have permission from the person who made the reference, and you don't trace all the time (it could stunt your learning if you only draw other ppl's style before learning anatomy i think), i'm ok with tracing.

Reference is not cheating and not unethical. Every artist should use references when they need to. Why hobble yourself? It has helped me with my perspective, shadows, wrinkles in clothes, etc Tracing is fine as a tool and for strictly personal use. The only time it's "wrong" or plagiarism is when you claim it as your own, without giving credit to the photographer, artist, etc. This is especially true if you're making money off of it.

Hi if any one can help me out with this situation that would be appreciated. This girl at my school directly draws over anime characters and claims the drawing as her own even tho she didn’t actually draw it when ppl confronted her she got defensive and said she drew it. While she used a pencil and drew it but used the computer underneath and trased it. I personally hate it as an artist myself that uses anime and semi realistic proportions as an art style and I work very hard to draw something that looks good and she takes 5 mins to make a whole anime piece then steal it I find very wrong. I don’t find it cheating but I find it stealing and wrong to do. Any opinions?

@MasterGxt

3 ай бұрын

Just ignore here and keep doing what you do, she's not work your energy your art is.

Simply put, if you use a reference for a base and make your drawing different from the reference then I don't see a problem. If you're someone like Greg land whos utterly lazy with his drawing and straight up traces and uses the same traces five times or so then yeah that's a problem.

I dont think you have a solid grasp of federal copyright law, there is no law in regards to "referencing". You can actually use any image public or private as long as you make significant changes. you would be surprised how little that change is btw

@MasterGxt

3 ай бұрын

The Duchess is mostly giving here opinions on the matter hence the frequent "in my opinion", if any of what she's saying had any legal basis she should say something like "according to the Federal Copyright Law" or something.

Me: Dancing to the backround music

@MasterGxt

3 ай бұрын

Me: Reading the comments

17:31 It really seems like a lot of people in the art community forget that _making a fucking AI_ is a lot more work than just compiling a big dataset of images. There is _nothing wrong_ with paying AI art companies, because you're not paying for the art, you're paying for the _service_ -- the development of the AI program, its integration on a cloud server, continuous server upkeep, etc. That shit is a _metric ton_ of work that's _completely divorced_ from the ethical issues of certain datasets, and AI art companies _absolutely_ deserve to be paid for it by users of their services. ...I do still think that AI users shouldn't be allowed to sell AI-generated art though; they didn't make it, the AI did. Writing text prompts doesn't count as "making it" in my book

@GaoLiOnTheRocks

Жыл бұрын

You are defending billionaires stealing from the poor. You make it seem as if Microsoft or other firms, who invest so much into this, are rando hobby programmers. They have more money than virtually everybody else of the human species combined. They don't need your money.

what about "kim jung gi" hes not using any reference.

Is that a freakin' Bible Black character in the thumbnail!? I recognized that art style very easily!

@Temperans

Жыл бұрын

Its Misa Amane from Death Note. They do have very similar art style. Bible Black is from 2000, while Death Note is from 2003.

@ExtremeWreck

Жыл бұрын

@@Temperans Oh. Never watched Death Note. All I know is someone taking a potato chip & eating it.

@Temperans

Жыл бұрын

@@ExtremeWreck Its good, the music is interesting, and if you know about Bible Black it might fit your cup of tea.

This is why i quit art

Art isn’t a memory game. Use reference people

20:50 Stealing an artist's style / "you can't own a style": I can agree on most of the points mentioned in this video, but I must admit this is one of the more tough aspects to think about when you take the AI controversy into account. It sounds logical on paper and even legally speaking there is no basis for ownership for an artist's drawing style, but morally it feels pretty wrecked and wrong when you see how AI art affiliated people and companiespromote and aim for an 1:1 imitation for a specific artist's drawing style (like the case with the generated detailed sceneries that were based on the AI generators fed with Kim Jung Gi's works after his death or the SamDrawsArt copycat contest), and many big names and non-artists influencers make no bones about the aspect that a major appeal about this AI movement and development IS in fact the imitation and duplication of certain and specific style of any popular artists. For me, it feels and sounds highly questionable. And before people already oppose to this argument, I beg to consider following scenarios: With the current progress of the AI technology that can generate realistic deepfakes and voices of known celebrities/ pop-culture characters, even KZreadrs, who thought positively about the AI art stuff feel more uncanny and uncomfortable when it comes to the two latter ones on the other hand, because they can see how deepfake and AI voice imitation can affect and raise potential for identity theft. It may be a scenario still away ahead in the future because the technological standards for these aren't there yet, but with the terrifying speedup progress so far, who knows how long it will take until content generators of all kind have to compete with faster, more productive AI doppelgangers. AI deepfakes already have a damaging impact on many people's life with the highly questionable fake revenge porn stuff (some lawyers with strong media presence from my country mentioned that these was one of the most common case inquiries from affected victims) and also popular voice actors with unique voices see a lot of existential risks coming with the AI that can imitate their voice already perfectly. If those cases are commonly considered identity thefts, is it that hard to imagine why artists feel in the same way conflicted about the AI art campaigns that advocates the imitation of certain individual artists? There is a reason why we/some of us can recognize and identify a known artist through their drawings thanks to their style. I personally don't see why the art style shouldn't be considered less a part of the own person's identity than any other biological, ethical or other contextual aspect of that person, thus feels endangered by that exploitative and parasitizing mentality.,

@MasterGxt

3 ай бұрын

So ... basically because an artists drawing style is unique, or if it's unique enough, it can be said that they own it, right?

Using a reference, or taking inspiration from another artist is not art theft. Stealing other people’s work and saying it’s yours? THAT’S art theft.

Answer: When your name is Greg Land.

This entire drama is completely moronic.

24:30 well, this might disapoint you but i do not disagree with you

Artists of the past - redrew art of another artists to understand how art work Current artists - REFERENCE IS BAD! DREW FROM MEMORY! YOU CANT BE " INSPARED" BY ANOTHER ARTIST! We live in a time where everybody is a snow flake and, apperently, can own air.

Virgil Abloh taught us, as long as it’s 3% different we are all good mate 😂 PS I don’t agree with that I just thought you should know

Realistically like if you're literally just on a program copying and pasting that's pretty much or doing something with it and you're not just like being like oh yeah I painted this when you didn't. I think that's really all that matters at the end of the day just being honest with your art or giving credit where credit's due. I think we all get caught up on copyright and plagiarism in all these big capitalist things because we're so concerned and trying to basically home or craft and skill because it is just a skill at the end of the day and you would never complain or say oh that Carpenter plagiarized my shed or that dentist plagiarized my for tooth decay and that's the problem of unit they were in such literally a rat race and just they want us fighting each other they want us really competing and we could share resources and we could treat each other way better but instead we're all pretty much fighting it out in this shity capitalist system. Like if we were find AI art do you know how much work that could take off of like animation if you can hold it in really. Like if you could draw like maybe even every other frame or maybe every five or ten frames and then like it automatically generates the next several films like that's a tenth of the work but the problem is obviously these companies will fire people but if they wanted to a smaller studio starting up could hire much more people to make much more shows providing a higher variety forcing the large companies to start doing the same and I think this is one of the biggest problems we have our technology grows small people better that technology but then other small people come in because of how advanced their technology is getting and either advanced technologyor do amazing things with it and show other people for basically free how to do other things for it or give free tools if they're doing well enough and it really forces the corporations to start matching it the reason why toys nowadays are so much better than toys back in the day isn't because corporations care what one is because obviously people want a better standard but because basically they weren't giving it and we started seeing these smaller people come up who are willing to give and produce far better and if they wanted to stay relevant and continue to hoard all the money they have to produce better themselves. So it's possible that it's like almost a swinging pendulum but I think eventually if people are just going to get sick of this whole capitalism system I mean most people who actually understand economics already hated it's it's a slave system. I might could you imagine if people could just live and create art or whatever they've create just for the Love of creating and selling and doing commissions for people like maybe you wouldn't be like richyou'd have clothing you have healthcare you have everything you need and you would have a good life and you could live your life doing. No copyright anyone can do your stuff you can do anyone else's the only caveat is hey you got to give your references when do and you got to be honest about your art as long as you do that you're good. And especially if people had money so many more people could go to a painter have a painting done of their ffamily. And then the artist can be left to paint whatever they want to paint or if somebody wants to commission they can have drawings and stuff. Sadly I don't I know it won't be in my time it's hard to tell what the future holds but I'm hoping my the future generations can really and capitalism and do something much better. I mean many artists are very pretentious assholes who believed that their work is original and truthfully I have yet to find one piece of work that is original that hasn't come from somewhere else and everything comes from somewhere else everything is built upon and modifying and evolves over time. And that the end of the day it all stems from nature. Why people on acid make amazing artist because basically your brain starts combining things in the most insane ways. Me thankfully I'm borderline clinically insane so I don't even need acid

@MasterGxt

3 ай бұрын

What's acid ?

Is calling you a Celeste is true?

Referencing is not "cheating" nor "Plagiarism" LMAO You´re either drawing over other people´s work or you´re not, it´s that simple. I got acussed of plagarism once only because another more well known artist in this community (I draw NSFW so make of that what you will.) just so happened to use the same photo reference as I did at the same.time. Pfft.

You heard her say it originality doesn’t exist. Every Beatles song ever written was not original. Remember that

When you say that morality can't be defined, your saying it is subjective, which I think is kind of dumb. Are you going to sit there and say that somone who leaves a dog by the side of the road and drives away is as morally valid is someone who says doing that is wrong. Would you say that the guy abandoning the dog can be just as right as the guy who says it is wrong because the guy driving away thinks that dogs can't feel pain or abandonment? Not saying that every situation has a definitive right or wrong, but there are situation where it is very clear that one party is right/wrong on their stance and beliefs, so saying you can't define morality is kind of dumb to me.

@MasterGxt

3 ай бұрын

Now one would just leave a dog by the side of the road for the sake of leaving a dog by the side of the road, maybe they have moral justification for doing so.

All reference is always cheating. The end.

@noname-rt3cv

Жыл бұрын

What...?

@HYPERxSONICxFANx2012

Жыл бұрын

what nonsense

If you view morality as subjective you're ungrounded and need Christ.

@hanniesluhvs

Жыл бұрын

You're

@HYPERxSONICxFANx2012

Жыл бұрын

i don't need christ. morality is subjective

@NatorGreen7000

Жыл бұрын

​@@HYPERxSONICxFANx2012 If morality was subjective it would be worthless. I don't care about your feelings on what you think should be moral I care about facts.

@HYPERxSONICxFANx2012

Жыл бұрын

@@NatorGreen7000 doesn't make it objective

@MasterGxt

3 ай бұрын

I think the idea here is that there is no arbiter of truth, Christ is Great, but He didn't leave us much to work with.