At first I didn't get it, but now everything is clear: Mike wants us to remake this video, shot for shot. Meem 4 meam

@pbsideachannel

7 жыл бұрын

"LAXLEBEAR, Author of the Rugnetta"

Just looking at Borges' face in the thumbnail and I am already happy. Thank you.

@francispena2818

7 жыл бұрын

me too!

@DavidEzequielPerez

7 жыл бұрын

same here!

I'm glad you read Borges. I loved the video and I'll show it my students (I am a teacher in high school). Every year my students read Don Quixote and then the short story "Pierre Menard, Author of the Quixote," and I emphasize how Borges destroys many of the principles on which Western philosophy (time, space and identity) is based; and also those of literature (authorship and originality): first, he destroys the idea of ​​fixed identity of a text (ie: Borges says that a text does not have a single interpretation but several, multiple, infinite); secondly, he also destroys the idea of ​​author (ie: postulates that there is no need for a particular author to write a particular work, anyone can be that author) and finally destroys the preconception of time and space and its influence on culture (a work is not the result of its historical and geographical context: a product of culture can be conceived at anytime and anywhere). In this way, Borges says, through fiction, in 1944, that which Julia Kristeva affirms through art theory in 1967: that all texts are the rewriting of other texts, and that literature and intertextuality are the same thing; and that the process and the historical conditions of composition of a work modify its content. The meaning of a work is a fragile thing (not a static one): It relates more to reading than writing, it is not tied to the words but to the contexts of words. Paraphrasing Borges, in this way you can read The Odyssey as if it was written later than The Aeneid, you can read Don Quixote as if it had been written by a twentieth century' French author, or you can read Don Quixote as if it had been written by a seventeenth century' Spanish author. According to the Argentinan writer Beatriz Sarlo (one of the sharpest critics of Borges work), to postulate all this, in the margin of the Rio de la Plata, is one of the greatest achievements of Borges: to remove the European authors from the center of the literary canon. If there is not such thing as original texts, if there is no pre-stablished interpretations, if all meaning comes from reading, or writing in the context, then the inferiority of margins vanishes. The peripheral writer (an Argentinan, a South American) has the same (or more) importance than his predecessors or contemporaries from Europe. Borges comes to put under a cloak of perspectivism the established truths of culture, literature and philosophy, and uses for that purpose what is arguably the greatest work of European literature: Don Quixote, by Miguel de Cervantes. Ironizing Don Quixote, Borges makes his perspectivism is double, and their achievements are titanic: at the same time manages to parody and homage (after all, parody is the highest form of flattery) a work and an "untouchable" author; then, through his art, he manages to knock down the idea that there are interpretations, works and established authors, and suggests that any author (reader-writer) can suddenly, from the discriminated periphery, come to occupy (without asking for permission) the center of the stage among the best artists in history.

@nathalyc9442

5 жыл бұрын

licenciadogarufa I love your comment.

@PicaroPariah

3 жыл бұрын

I think of it as expanding rather than destroying.

@LucasRibeiro-qe9mb

3 жыл бұрын

I don't get why you think he destroys the idea of author. What I see is that he exalts the author, as a critic to Pierre. Even though both Pierre's and Cervante's texts are 'litteraly' the same, they do not represent the same thing, they can't be read (and they weren't, when you look at the passage where Pierre is being criticized in multiple perspectives) the same way, it's a total different work - they were written in a different context. That being said, I perceived that as a critic to a certain type of anachronism. Anyway, great comment! Thank you for sharing this.

@licenciadogarufa

3 жыл бұрын

@@LucasRibeiro-qe9mb What i meant to say is that, reading other texts by Borges alongside this one (the essays "Kafka and his precursors" and "The Argentine writer and tradition", for example), it can be observed that there is an insistence on the idea that the author neither the time or the place where a text originates does not matter, but the important thing is the different readings that can be made of that text. Thanks for your comment.

@licenciadogarufa

3 жыл бұрын

@@nathalyc9442 gracias.

Borges??? As an argentinian, this is the purpose of my life. My body is ready.

@massimilianotron7880

7 жыл бұрын

Also, maybe later in the book club you should read Borges's "Tlon, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius", also from "Fictions". In my opinion, the best argentinian short story ever written.

The next thing we're reading is Borges' The Library of Babel! www.reddit.com/r/pbsideachannel/comments/57st4n/idea_channel_book_club_borges_take_2/

I'm a simple argentine. I see another argentine in the video, I upvote

@Altopasto

3 жыл бұрын

and look for fellows Argentineans in the comment.

One approach that wasn't mentioned in this video is that this short story can be mainly a metaphor/critique of how Translation was/is viewed. Borges was-as you know-an accomplished translator and discussed translation issues in several occasions. The ideia of re-writing a text without changing anything while dealing with an "alien" language is exactly the single major impossible expectation that surrounds translation. This is especially true when it comes to translation of literary work, which brings about intagible factors such as the "spirit" of the author. A transparent translation by a neutral, invisible translator (one that, if possible, embodies the author) is an ideal that probably became prominent with Alexander Fraser Tytler's "Essay on the Principles of Translation" (1813), probably under the sigil of the Romantic concept of the author's genius. Menard's visible work is contrasted with this invisible work-the perfect translation. Of course, Borges takes lots of shots against other matters (such as literary criticism), but a lot of things in this text points to an ironic view on what is expected of translation. P.S.: Is it a coincidence that the only specific date mentioned is September 30th, the Day of St. Jerome, famous Bible translator and patron saint of the translators (and now International Translation Day)?

@jakeelsner2963

8 ай бұрын

The specific date is not September 30th, but December 30th 1934.

honestly tho, menards version is better

I clicked on this so fast when I saw Borges in the thumbnail!

Borges is my favoutite author, I highly recomend his works.

Okay, one thing though: I could understand about %10 of the short story and that's being generous. This was waaaaay over my head

@StarLover479

7 жыл бұрын

Same, but in both languages. :(

Man, this one was so dense I had to slow it back down to Normal speed!

@mildsoup8978

7 жыл бұрын

Elijah Budd I was literally coming to write the same thing (no joke )

@GlobalSingeing

7 жыл бұрын

Jiz Master0 I'm TINY RICK!!!

@mildsoup8978

7 жыл бұрын

Remember! Reality is an illusion the universe is a hologram BUY GOLD BYEEE

@GlobalSingeing

7 жыл бұрын

Jiz Master0 *virtual high five*

@mildsoup8978

7 жыл бұрын

yeah!

Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius.

Finally someone talked about Argentina. Specially considering about who

Mike is wearing a Happy Noodle Boy shirt... That fills me with so much joy.

This video got way too meta for me before the 3 minute mark. Fascinating, but way over my head.

@LynnHermione

7 жыл бұрын

Borges is a drug trip without the drugs :D

Congrats, you got me to pick up my copy of his Collected Fictions

I couldn't resist checking out a Borges video. Compatriot and all. I've read this short story a few times, but I never delved any deeper into it outside of the actual material. Finding about the Lautréamont quote was well worth my time, giving even more depth to one of many fantastic short stories. I'm partial to "Funes, el Memorioso" but if you're going to do another Borges story it's probably going to be "The Aleph" or its counterpoint "The Zahir".

For those who want to delve deeper down the PoMo rabbit hole (and possibly do some follow up reading), seminal Postmodern author Paul Auster's 1987 debut novel "City of Glass" includes a scene in which the protagonist (Daniel Quin, or D.Q. for short) meets a self-inserted Paul Auster, who describes a fictional essay in which he speculates on the real identity of the allegedly fictional narrator of the Quixote, suggesting that Cide Hemete Benengeli was, in truth, Cervantes himself, and that the Quixote is, in reality, autobiographical non-fiction. He then admits to Quinn that the essay is deliberately false -"imaginative reading" - heavily implying that the fictional non-fiction fiction essay he has just described is partially plagiarized from "Pierre Menard, Author of the Quixote." The series then ends with the sound of wet fart and a scene in which an English BA graduate eats all the pages of a paperback novel. Just a little bit more intertextuality for to chew on, for those who want it!

Also, how is that i had not discovered this channel. It is marvelous!

As a visual artist, I once had a kind of motorboat accident and I sufferered an extremely intense pain from coup injury, I was really scared that I might have suffered some kind of damage. So first thing I did was take out some pen and paper and started drawing. I ended up being alright : P But it's funny how this is a main concern of an artist after going through something horrible "can I still do my thing"?

See "On a winter's night a traveler" by Italo Calvino.

This reminded me about fanfiction. Of taking the writings of other (sometimes canon) writers and reinterpreting it, a kind of creative and relatable plagiarism.

@angehaven

7 жыл бұрын

I definitely need to read this book

@juanignaciotricarico7349

7 жыл бұрын

I've always considered Borges the greatest fanfic writer of all time. He loved to read and it shows all around his work. I would recommend you his short story "the House of Asterion" which is the myth of the Minotaur in the maze from the perspective of the Minotaur.

@LynnHermione

7 жыл бұрын

Yes to all of this - and the best part is that he'd absolutely hate the comparison. (He was kind of a dick)

Ooh do Cortázar he's cool too

This is such an amazingly interesting topic, I definitely enjoyed the subreddit discussion, didn't add anything and now I feel like I have to!

He even had an intuition on multiple universe theory and strings ( M therory ) and on many theoretical physics, time warps and even the mathematical intuition of chaos, he described the universality of language in very short essays I think he reached Wittgeinstein in a paralel string.

In what way could this line of thinking be applied to Pony Pals' "Detective Pony: Tragic Pony Noose"?

Oh hey, when are you going to post the next reading for the book club?

Even though this episode was more focused on real life questions of authorship and reading, it made me think of House of Leaves and its several authors. Which then made me realise how awesome it would be to see an episode about House of Leaves. And then I heard the words Minotaur (Minotaure) and Labyrinth IN the video and freaked out.

@briggy4359

5 жыл бұрын

There are numerous references to Borges in house of leaves. It's the main inspiration, I would argue.

Totes sending this to my Spanish prof- I took a Quijote course with her last spring and Pierre Menard was what we read to cap off the class. (though many of us had already read PM before- Borges has been on the freshman reading list for years)

Thank you! Menard and the discussion around it was one of the favorite subjects during my MA. We discussed it regarding Barthes' of The Death of the Author. Does it matter who wrote a work? - so exactly as a bridge between modern and post-modern. Love to see more literature on KZread. Any channel suggestions for more like this?

Paul Theroux wrote a lot about Borges and is worth reading.

I didn't have a chance to read the Borges book (though it's definitely on my to-read list), but I just wanted to say from what you said about it, it reminds me a lot of House of Leaves with it's relationship to truth.

Happy Noodle Boy

Thorough analysis bud. I wish you'd make a vid on Borges' El milagro secreto (the secret miracle), a nice little gem indeed...

and see, this right here is why I'm aiming to work in literary theory/complit/philosophy. So much fun

I'm rereading Stephen King's The Dark Tower series (no spoilers here, if you're worried), and King leaves much of the story up to the reader to fill in. Roland, the main character, has clear holes left in his backstory that every reader can fill in as they want and technically not be wrong. The final book (again, no spoilers) leaves a huge question for the reader after the story ends. King includes an epilogue explaining what he thinks happens next (which could be the canon ending if the reader so chooses it to be), but I didn't like that ending. So I made up my own. Does that make me a better writer than Stephen King? Rather, does that fact that I definitively ended King's story when he himself couldn't make me a better writer, since I was able to complete the story when he couldn't?

My favorite smoothie recipe is: Raspberry yogurt Assorted berries Cranberry juice for flavor and to ease the work of the blender. 1 Banana It's super acidic but oh is it good.

Clicked on the YT button at the right moment club.

I feel the dichotomy of modernism/postmodernism or reading/writing is useful (as always) but not entirely true (as always). Any work of art is a work of communication. Thus, both reading and writing are inherently creative. The difference of course lies in what type of authority each has. The writer is authorized to create the "heart", the canvas or platform on which readers can partake and discuss. Readers are then authorized to recontextualize the works. Based on their own backgrounds they take away something different (personal recontextualization), or as is the case here, add to it (creative recontextuaization), but stray from the "heart" slowly. Part of the "authority" of the writer is due to being the originator and having done more work than most if not all of the readers, and I don't think that mindset is wrong. The writer is the one who gathered the wood and created the spark that formed a fire in the readership, and although we receive the warmth from the fire, nothing is created without the wood and without that spark.

@concernedhuman4559

3 жыл бұрын

That actually makes sense to me! Thanks.

I miss this channel so much

So, are you saying that Borges' success as a short fiction writer came from literally a "mind-blown" moment?

I love Borges! And I found so weird that you americans like it! Because its a very spanish literature. And a very latin american genre, the short story

@malzzzzification25

5 жыл бұрын

Pero él en particular es de importancia universal.

While probably not the most original of ideas, this video can't help but make me wonder how an exact re-writing of Menard's story would be interpreted (aside from, you know, being interpreted as just plagarism).

This episode reminds me of playing open world video games through the lens of Roleplaying. The developers craft wonderful quests and stories into the world of their creations, adding fantastic monsters and magic, or spaceships if it's that kind of universe, and then the humble or not so humble Roleplayer goes in and disrupts it all with his or her own story, woven in the midst of all the others, using elements of the game in ways the developers may not have even imagined. Even games that are not intentionally sand box games with systems of freedom programmed into them still get players that must explore some of the player themselves through the light of the carefully choreographed scenes and lines and actions of the game. I think it is merely human to take some form of creation and create more. In a sense we've been doing it for thousands of years.

man. i miss this channel

Love your channel. as an Argentinian I felt compelled to watch this particular video but as an english learner I felt this goes waaay out of my understanding level lol. I'll watch it a couple more times after I have read the book I guess...

There's an interesting correlation in thought between these ideas and those of de Certeau's concept of reading/writing, as outlined in his book The Practice of Everyday Life (1980/1984), if anyone is interested in exploring another author's take.

August Wilson's Joe Turner's Come and Gone sent me here.

Happy Noodle Boy!!!

Great vid... I feel I'll need to watch it 3 more times to digest all of it, its so dense ×_×

I miss the videos from this channel

You did a great job dude!

I see so the pressured and experienced helped him

Dude you're smart af

I do believe that reading is an art. Thats what makes reading so enchanting 😆

12:10 I, first, assumed you ment the movie Labyrinth with David Bowie (right? he's in that right?) but that can't be right. Right?

I think you have the wrong tweet of the week link in the description!?!?

@AnomalousBones

7 жыл бұрын

twitter.com/1212thedoctor/status/784791575473885184 should be the right one

@hexeddecimals

7 жыл бұрын

AnomalousBones It is thank you!

@pbsideachannel

7 жыл бұрын

Thanks, it was one of those fun things where we changed it and it wouldn't update. Looks like it good now, though.

I really liked this analysis but I don't find other episodes. Did the Book Club died after this?

The tweet of the week link is wrong D: which is unfortunate because I really want to know about that chatbot. If anyone finds an actual link to what that is about please let me know.

@AnomalousBones

7 жыл бұрын

twitter.com/1212thedoctor/status/784791575473885184 there you go :D

@pbsideachannel

7 жыл бұрын

TY! Should be good now.

@nicoleboudreau2646

7 жыл бұрын

Thank you.

Based on the previous video on decoding and encoding media.. the act of reading does not necessarily mean that one also partakes in the act of writing.. but it certainly is possible.. particularly if someone contains within their faculties of mind a proper "decoding operating system" that allows them to decode what they read in such a way as to transpose the ideas they had just read into novel literary shapes.. composing upon the canvas of their consciousness the beginnings of an artwork they will long capture in reminiscence.. but ya.. good story bro! :D

You should do something on House of Leaves.

HAPPY NOODLE BOY. Mad respect for the shirt.

Zampanó, Johnny Truant and the House on ash tree lane brought me here

Viva Borges! :D

for rizzles, can we delve into classical rhetorical theory and talk about kairos? Cause we're dealing with crises of kairos right neow

It's HAPPY NOODLE BOY!!! Which brings to mind a thought: To what extent does tradition of a kind of media limit the kinds of ideas that one expects from a given work, & does it make it harder to get those works published & noticed? Comic books are a fantastic example, as they are 99% superhero drama driven, so a dark comedy that is absolutely pitch black in it's sense of humor, (see Jhonen Vasquez's work JTHM,) or a biography with cute animals playing the part of people, (see Art Spiegelman's work Maus.) So with the example of comic books, to what extent are they chained to the Super Hero genre, & what if anything could be done for them to escape? Yes your shirt reminded me of this thought that has been bouncing around my head for a while.

Love your Happy Noodle Boy Tshirt

I tend to read things as very literal. If something is described in a story, I tend to assume exactly that and not much more. How would that work in to this?

@TheMaplestrip

7 жыл бұрын

To quote this very short story: "ambiguity is richness". Not every line has a specific clear meaning. That being said, the very line Borges/the narrator puts up as an example - "Truth, whose mother is history ..." - probably couldn''t be ambiguous when viewing it from a literal point of view? Borges/the narrator suggests that, due to Menard's time period, calling 'history' the 'mother' of 'truth' must surely be intended as ironic. I'm not sure what all of this may have as an effect on your reading of a work, but thinking about what an author may mean is common and an interesting pursuit. That's what the ideas of this video are about. If you take everything at face value, that all might not have as much of an impact.

@yat282

7 жыл бұрын

***** I suppose that with the example you used, I wouldn't take that literally, but not taking it literally means that any interpretation is pretty much as good as any other.

Borges, a Magical Realist? Sounds like a pretty stereotyped description to me :s

I always struggle to keep up with these videos, but its fun; it's a challenge. I don't think im smart enough for this one though. Many of the concepts themselves seem alien to me.

It's funny we talked about media decoding last week, because I sure felt like I was decoding this Oh good lord, now I know how my compiler software feels

Love the analysis! But not all latin american writers are magical realists

Books... are those like, printed versions of Audible...?

How meta did it feel writing this script?

@pbsideachannel

7 жыл бұрын

One step less meta than how it felt writing this comment.

it's already 13:07, no smoothie for lunch for me :'(

gonna drink that smoothie while reading the short storry. I wouldn't mind a new smoothie receipt with every thing that we read together.. just saying.

still waiting for a Saussure episode tho.

"Is reading a form of writing?" It depends if P=NP

Great video, although I do not think Borges would have liked to be described as "magical realist"

Noodle Boy shirt!

Then what piece is the bridge between post-modernism and metamodernism?

what is the difference between this "bridge" and metamodernism

So... what would "Pierre Menard" have meant if it was penned by Mike?

Gringo gringo !!! 💪💪

does somebody here know about Augusto Roa Bastos?

This video needed one big infographic

Nobody is right against Borges !!! But he is the biggest literary troll in modern history !!!😆😆 gotta love Asterion and Las ruinas circulares .....

Brazil?

This is how you pronounce Lautréamont: fr.forvo.com/word/lautr%C3%A9amont/#fr

@Biscuitsdefortune

7 жыл бұрын

[lotʀeamɔ̃]

This video is everything i'm going to university for. Borges is my jesus... (ignoring his facist ideologies)

@carbono12videos

7 жыл бұрын

faabyy21 well, he was a man of his time... of course he was plain wrong about his political affairs but despite what it does appear to be when reading his short stories or the transcription of his speeches, he was human after all. Or maybe he was just tricking us once more.

@faabyy21

7 жыл бұрын

Carbono 12 Oh definitely. I think it's very telling of the time the fact that he and Cortazar, his main apprentice, had a falling out because Cortazar was a socialist.

@marcopivetta7796

7 жыл бұрын

he was an aristocratic man. Well read and well fed and educated to hate populism in all its forms. Yea, he was kind of facsist, but most of the time he just reacted to heavy populist and demagogic policies that 40's-50's peronism took on Argentina. We still haven't recovered from that, either economically nor culturally, so he was right about them.

@nachoo9774

6 жыл бұрын

borges maestro en todo sentido

@georgewilson7432

4 жыл бұрын

Such ignorancw! He fought against Fascism,.

The thing about the AI developing depression likely isn't real. Google "rinna rocketnews24", which has a link to the source. From what I can gather, the blog was used to advertise a TV show and things got lost in translation when the "AI" was reported in the Anglosphere.

I claim this comment for Yitzi Litt

Is reading a form of writing? Then, Is listening a form of composing? Is watching a form of video making? Is sitting in class as a student a form of standing in class teaching? etc. And conversely, Is writing then a form of reading? Is composing then a form of listening? Is video making then a form of watching? Does this kind of thinking run the dangerous (because void and bankrupt) gauntlet which vomits us out onto vast, open and soggy planes of "Everything is Everything;" or could that result be a kind of subtle subtext critique of Borges' for un-creative and unoriginal types (Menard?) who con their way into the avant garde, or dadaism (current movements he may very well have been against as a post-modernist) by advancing claims of 'doing' with nothing substantive to show for it? Perhaps with an even more cynical, extreme application of the concept of 'plagiarism' there is a lot to be said about 'influence' as a kind of thievery; indeed, Einstein should be crucified if this is the case; but, he did not simply copy down the equations of Planc and call them his own. Furthermore, while it cannot be denied that Mathematicians 'use' the work of their predecessors, they do 'make' something new (whether Math(s) is created or discovered) when making new connections and proving old concepts. For a comprehensive investigation, the same should be considered of Brahms, or Bach, or Michelangelo. What is 'apprenticeship' after all, and what is 'education'? For me, Menard's endeavor comes across as a kind of 'performance piece' or even early form of 'shock jock' radio. By tearing down walls of (surely) bourgeois thinking and sensibilities Borges (through Menard) makes us question and think critically, and that is the most valuable thing a writer can do and why such a person is considered meritorious.

@malzzzzification25

5 жыл бұрын

The story "Pierre Menard, author of the Quijote" should not be read without the complementary lecture of two texts: "Kafka and his precursors", and "Note about (to) Bernard Shaw". Only by reading these two essays you will be able to fully understand and, by extension (as it is always with Borges) enjoy the story. The original name of the essays are "Kafka y sus precursores" and "Nota sobre (hacia) Bernard Shaw".

I'm not sure why I'm watching this. I don't even like reading...

@mjf8897

7 жыл бұрын

I didn't even read your comment.

@bagandtag4391

7 жыл бұрын

***** Lies

@mjf8897

7 жыл бұрын

Combinemon you caught me

Borges is not a Magical Realist writer...

@briggy4359

5 жыл бұрын

Funes and the nameless magician from the circular ruins would beg to differ.

is eating a form of drinking?

Last

On the topic of the tweet of the week, it seems that Rinna (the depressed AI) is more of a mix of Tay and Cleverbot, you can see how nonsensical her actual conversations are, typical of a chatbot: en.rocketnews24.com/2016/03/10/rise-of-the-robots-microsofts-new-ai-rinna-is-rebelling-on-twitter-insulting-her-creator/ The depressive/suicidal post to her blog doesn't seem to follow the same format as her conversations, and has special coding to it that seems very likely added by humans. en.rocketnews24.com/2016/10/05/japans-ai-schoolgirl-has-fallen-into-a-suicidal-depression-in-latest-blog-post/ So it's likely that it's just a publicity stunt, not the AI actually developing a depressed form of communication.

The hell is a squeeze of honey