Article Link: www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/09/17/hip-hop-politics-00114584

Hallelujah! The conversation that's been long long overdue. Thank you dead end for addressing this 🙏

As 19 year old hip-hop head who is studying journalism, I really enjoyed this video and article. Since I’ve been watching y’all since I was 14, I would say I know much more about hip-hop’s history compared to an average consumer of my age, and y’all have put me on to so much music, history, and game. However, I still learned a lot through the article and video and I now have more critical thoughts on the current state of hip hop and what I listen to. I am also currently saddened at the state of hip hop and what the industry has pushed to the younger generations, but I hope the next chapter of hip hop is an amazing improvement.

@Hello185

8 ай бұрын

20 years old I also know a lot of hip hop then most my generation

I think it's up to the people to find the music they want to listen to. And I think it's up to the positive and conscious rappers to find a better way to get their points across without alienating people who like what's popular. I feel like it's up to people with platforms like you guys to push the culture forward. How many top 10 conscious rap lists are being made? People only bring up conscious rappers as a way to put down what's popular.

I think the internet has actually made more "conscious" or "empowering" rap even harder to make rather than giving more freedom, etc - now millions of artists are competing with each other and other forms of art (and entertainment) to get attention. Many are becoming even more caricaturish in the hopes of generating that attention.

@JD-ny3vz

8 ай бұрын

Exactly

Yessir need these DEHH Convos 🔥🔥

This article and discussion made me think about how Kendrick really is the king of a Trojan horse album. He drops a hype single like Backseat Freestyle, i, or DNA to get people hooked, and then it ends up being just one small part of a larger conscious message

@RasDam

8 ай бұрын

A conscious message, sure. But not a positive one. Kendrick loves to tell us he's problematic and he'll kill mans (lyrically) all whilst telling us that the world is shit and being politically active is pointless. It still bothers me that PABC got so much praise when he basically said 'but what about black on black crime?' when people all over the US were protesting about police brutality.

@SoulOfTheSouth

6 ай бұрын

He’s not the only one though.

The industry is pushing agendas that are detrimental, that part is clear. But it's rare to find the artist with a combo of conscious, relatable lyrics, and a sonically commercial sound. Drake nails the last two. Cole and Kendrick generally hop around 2 of the 3 depending on the track. I will say though, it feels like as more time goes on the less and less of these artists there are. In the early 2000s sure we had 50, game, wayne etc. but we also had Lupe, Kanye, Outkast etc

@dexenationgracey1979

8 ай бұрын

But I think the difference is that even rappers like 50 had socially conscious songs.

@sinez999

8 ай бұрын

@@dexenationgracey1979 Genuinely curious, which ones? The one that comes to my head is Baltimore Love Thing but I'm sure there were more

As a “young” listener (26) I was just talking about this with one of my homies. There is a HUGE lack in positive, reaffirming music in hiphop and we genuinely tried to find ANY. It all would eventually regress back into a negative topic even if the song sounded happy or was built on a positive concept. This “I’m happy and I’m better than those who aren’t, but you can have this feeling too.” It’s a deep maze, but when you really start to analyze and pay attention to the “positivity” that is pushed, it’s surrounded by this false sense of hubris that is, in a way, negative. It’s like “I’m better than you, but I’m not saying I’m better than you, but I hope you know I’m better than you”

@seanyoung9014

8 ай бұрын

This is how relatively poor people usually act when given a chance to perform in front of their peers and those they aspire to be like. It's ridiculously prevalent in the black community.

@Mr._Moderate

7 ай бұрын

1. That type of hip-hop will NOT be mainstream in today's industry 2. You'd have to go further back into the early 90s and prior 👍

@sameenergy9414

4 ай бұрын

The secret meeting that changed hip-hop

DeadEnd were part of those older crew who made me think about what I was listening to

We need MORE of these DEHH convos. The big question is: will hip hop EVER get back to a balance? On the radio? In mainstream? Honesty I don’t think it will. HipHop originally came with a message. And sure, we have Kendrick and Cole but as a whole… hip hop is dying (some could argue it’s dead)

The key element is sending the message it trojan horse style within a song or album. Thing about a song like DNA (dot) or CREAM (WU). These songs are really bouncy and great for parties or riding around, yet they have a lot of important messages that dont sound preachy or too complicated. Also with albums: A lot of people liked backseat freestyle and poetic justice as singles so when good kid dropped they listened to it and oh boy they encountered songs like samidot; a lot of people didnt care for it but for some it was bridge to listen to more concious music like it. This is the way.

Powell gotta be my absolute favorite journalist in HipHop (he was great in The Real World, too). Nelson George is the only other name I can think that comes close... Powell been working on a book on Tupac that I'm dying for. I hear he's in the final stages. Thanks for putting me onto this article! Public Enemy is what made me fall in love with HipHop, so I get what he's saying... I also loved NWA, and then Death Row, so I'm torn on the criticism that _The Chronic_ and gangsta rap often gets - especially since much of that was very political, too. For me, it was the shiny-suit "jiggy" era starting in the late-'90s in NY that brought us to where we are now.

Kevin Powell is to Hip Hop journalism what Spike Lee is to cinema. I think to expand in the dialog, having the diametric sides come together, across generations, could go farther to help. Filming that, and having those conversations, aren’t really happening. It’s like the adults are talking in the garage while the kids are in the front yard. There’s a disconnect.

@Jimmy1982Playlists

8 ай бұрын

Pretty apt comparison... can't believe Feefo never heard of him. Well... I guess I can. 😂 CANNOT... _WAIT..._ FOR HIS BOOK ON TUPAC SHAKUR!

@agitprops073

8 ай бұрын

I don't know Powell's background, but Spike has made a career of looking down on poor Black folks from his position in the bourgeoisie. I don't think that's Powell, but going off your comparison, there are definitely red flags in the article along those lines.

@LameBushido

8 ай бұрын

The generations don't move together like that. Youth is always going to be in reaction to the previous generation. This creates new art, sometimes it's great sometimes it's shit.

Another reason why I think conscious hip-hop isn't popular is because it's hard to make that kind of music without coming across as holier-than-thou. There's a fine line between preaching and preachy and a lot of musicians don't know the tactfulness to not cross that line. There's a reason why we respect Kendrick Lamar and not Hopsin even though they have similar lyrical content.

@reality3304

8 ай бұрын

Yeah I’ve been a fan of so called conscious rap for years but couldn’t stand Hopsin 😂 I respect his talent tho.

@chief-long-john

4 ай бұрын

I honestly think, based on the music I listen to, I've come across LESS holier than thou conscious music than otherwise. I would even argue Cole was or still is holier than thou. I also think holier than thou often is a personal insecurity of hearing someone who very well may just be a better person than you telling you to be better lol.

Kendrick being an anomaly is something he's addressed a few times. "How y'all let a conscious n**** go commercial while only making conscious albums?" I do think his impact on younger rappers will be more noticeable in the coming years. We're still less than a decade removed from his magnum opus TPAB, which a lot of young hiphopheads consider the crowning jewel of rap music. To me this current state of hiphop is a fallout from the bling era that predated it, and younger listeners of the genre having been exposed to more conscious artist such as Kendrick, Cole, JID, Saba, etc. will cause the genre to press forward and we might experience another fallout from this trap-influenced era into one more focused on the conscious approach to hiphop.

I saw a tweet the other day that said something to the effect "I read books, so I don't need conscious hip-hop." On the flip side I think a lot of people don't read books and are not interested in anything other than today's form of mainstream hip-hop. Personally, I don't think I would've tried other forms of hip hop if I hadn't come across DEHH more than a decade ago. I do think some of the burden and responsibility falls on people with platforms to expand the range of what's being listened to.

@shettywap

8 ай бұрын

Whoever said that is right. Interestingly, conscious hip hop artists usually think the same things as the unconscious ones. They just say it in a clever way. You can usually predict how they feel about a certain subject before they even start rapping. It also has its limitations of not being able to be as detailed as a book. Especially when it comes to solutions, diagnosing the problem (not just the usual "the government sent crack and guns to the hood), and the intricacies of those problems.

@JulianWyllie

8 ай бұрын

@@shettywap I somewhat see what you're saying and I overall don't disagree. I don't think everybody, in capital letters, NEEDS conscious hip-hop and not every artist is good at making songs like this. But different art forms reach different people. Whether it's books, documentaries, music, having a conscious element to different art forms is a good thing in my view.

@shettywap

8 ай бұрын

@JulianWyllie oh absolutely!! I prefer to listen to the open mike eagle and odisees of the world. As a reader of non-fiction and a long-time listener of hip hop, you realize that it can never reach the details of a book. It obviously has just as much depth of feeling and spirit, which obviously is very important. I'm with you, though, man. Brick body kids still daydream is a great example of that nice conscious stuff. Mike is truly brilliant.

@MapleGlazedDonuts

8 ай бұрын

​@@shettywapyou're comparing it to fiction when these ideas are being presented as factual and lives are lost and ruined along side it. This is a genre marketed at teens, not adults. Thought precedes action. If you're listening to an artist to the point you begin speaking like them, adopting their slang, buying brands they associate themselves with(bc now people not even from those artists environments are adopting these things), then reading books is irrelevant because music is equally if not more influential than books. They provide strong emotional hooks which makes the info stick more. People are not doing drive bys and poppin fent to classical music. Ultimately the people impacted the most are the ones who can't just take their headphones off and remove themselves from that world bc they're actually living in it. People like yourself can just turn it off and view it as mindless entertainment

@shettywap

8 ай бұрын

@MapleGlazedDonuts I'm not exactly sure what you're addressing, but is it because I said reading non-fiction is more informative and detailed than conscious rap? Maybe you glanced over me, saying non-fiction, and thought I said fiction? I generally agree with what you're saying here. Music is more influential than reading today. I'm not arguing that it's not.....my point was that reading material by John McWhorter, Isabel Wilkerson, Shelby Steele, James Baldwin, W.e.b., etc., are going to be more comprehensive and specific than anything Wu tang or Billy Woods could tell me. Or, boosie, for that matter. I agree that music is influential, and sometimes, it works in ways that trend opposite to reality (i.e. they're only pushing certain kinds of music, and that's what's popular, but the world is generally better to "blacks" and women these days.) But yes, they do carry a significant amount of influence as do all public figures. I remember a time when I thought being "black" meant "you have to say, you have to speak a certain way, you have to like rap, you have to be disadvantaged or poor, etc." I came to the realization that the vast majority of "blacks" in America don't live this cookie cutter experience of the caricature of "blackness."

The intent is to keep young people ignorant, and you can see the effect of that most clearly in their reaction to this kind of messaging. Most young people don't want to hear this shit, for the same reason they don't vote. The goal should be to get these kids to care, but these days you have to wade through a swamp of drivel to reach them.

Damn I really want a DEHH x @fdsignifier collab

@Jimmy1982Playlists

8 ай бұрын

Absolutely! Especially on this topic.

Rod's point with the ringtone and dance era was basically.. hip-hop went through the gangsta rap era that heads eventually complained about, here comes ringtone/dance music and it was shitted on when kids were just having fun. Trap was chosen as the new cool which continued the course for the all negative shit. Then drill has been here and stayed.

@Katrill28

8 ай бұрын

Yeah it’s pretty hypocritical to act like ringtone rap didn’t encompass a genuine part of hip hop lol, I don’t see how Kid n Play is completely different from that era. Sometimes it’s the old heads fault for just hating on anything new.

Let’s go!

As a “guest” in Hip-Hop, I wish more non-Black artists really think about these topics. Just bc they’re not Black, most assume that they don’t have to dig deeper into the culture when they really should (especially if they profit off it). Thank you DEHH crew for spreading this article bc this is the first time I’ve heard about it! ❤️

This was a beautiful convo! This article is for everybody! It’s also essentially for people who just listen to the radio and think hip hop is a laughing stock full of negativity and this article will take them onto a journey and give them insight on why hip hop was considered a craft and a tool from the very beginning for our voice to be heard.

it’s wild how beezy knew real world season 8 was hawaii 😂

I'm so surprised you guys haven't reviewed or reacted to the Coast Contra freestyles. They are not only viral but extremely conscious and in the tradition of golden era hip hop. 2 members are twins and the sons of Ras Kass. Maybe reviewing them can be a way of you guys using your platform to right the direction hip hop has been on.

@Jimmy1982Playlists

8 ай бұрын

Just been getting into them recently... I _like_ most of their studio material, some of it is so-so - but their freestyles are just incredible! 🔥 Nice seeing a second generation keep the tradition going... Ras Kass is still a mic destroyer, himself.

@gino88

8 ай бұрын

@@Jimmy1982Playlists admittedly i only got a few songs into their studio album. The freestyles might have set the bar too high. I should try again.

@dapluva1

8 ай бұрын

Thing is we need more coast contras to make a real impact

@Jimmy1982Playlists

8 ай бұрын

​@@gino88 I wasn't very clear. I probably haven't heard all that much more of the studio work than you, and I like most of it... But the freestyles definitely blew me away on another level, and as you said, might have set the bar too high lol

dehh convos >>>

Proud of y’all started watching back in 2013 in college, still watching today.

Thank you again for amazing video. I don't know any person who doesn't know Kevin Powell from the Real World of New York. Being a black mam from the south and in my 40s. I'm from a small town in the south. I remembered when NWA had hit the scene. It was new and even scary. Black Folks weren't as direct about killing anothe person on records. It was new to most because their content. The Chronic took gangster rap to another level. On the song "Let me Ride" the lyrics "No medallions, dreadlocks or black fist/ It's just that gangster glare with gangster raps/ That gangster **** makes a gangs of snaps." I was like most black folks. It didn't bother me as much because at that time we had Kriss Kross, PBE and multiple different rappers and other groups. We had journalists and town hall meetings on TV about the culture. The issue comes from no real journalists but click bait blogs. That helps fuel negative images. The lack of diversity sonically, content and stylistically. Violence, capitalism and misogyny is nothing new. We just need more voices against it.

Great discussion btw, also to give grace to the younger audience. Just from personal experiences i don’t believe the history, and the love for the music is getting passed down as much as it should. I have a little cousin who is 17 so she listening to all the mainstream artist and from talking with her she honestly doesn’t know much about pre-2010 cause she’s young and parents didn’t pass that knowledge down. Now I’m giving her a few albums here and there just to get her mind working. Also honestly old heads be talking shit too much at times. Which is a huge deterrent in grand scheme of things especially if you want people to pass it down and care for it.

@Hello185

8 ай бұрын

I agree but there also a lot good music in 2010s

@WillieEarlSon

8 ай бұрын

@@Hello185 i agree some of my favorite is from the 2010’s era

@Hello185

8 ай бұрын

@@WillieEarlSon oh okay because I hate when I hear old niggas be like there nothing good from 2010s and I like yes there is you just not listen

I always loved these dehh conversations 🔥

TALK THAT TALK DEN FELLAS 🏄🏾‍♂️🏄🏾‍♂️🏄🏾‍♂️🏄🏾‍♂️

Great discussion fellas!

I think what hurts the genre the most is the younger kids seeing the positive music as corny. I hold Mr Morale in high regard and when I do discuss music with my some of my homeboys and younger employees, they look at me like I have 5 heads. The same thing with The Allegory. A lot of the music that’s supposed to make you think and go out to do something just doesn’t connect with some people. Royce has a song called Field Negro that’s somewhat of this same vein of thinking. I can’t imagine any of the young kids throwing that on but it’s in my constant rotation.

@seismic6435

8 ай бұрын

Bro, it just gotta shlap and conscious music generally doesn't. It's not hip-hop, but take NXCRE & The Villain's song "Usurper." It might lightweight actually be a Christian song, but I don't hear it as such. Some dude made a rap song talking about the systemic economic abuse of the Congo using a triplet flow and everyone loved it. It's the presentation more than the content

@KingKeseGaming

8 ай бұрын

@@seismic6435 I agree. Presentation definitely plays a huge part in it. Finding that balance of mainstream appeal and conscious content is difficult tho. The message can kinda get lost in the music tho. For instance, Hey Ya isn’t the cheery song you hear it as. It’s hard to find something that bumps in the whip or makes you nod your head and has a clear message.

@chief-long-john

4 ай бұрын

@@seismic6435​​⁠ the idea of a song slapping is a paradigm that is instilled upon ppl by the recurringly played popular music. You do not view a song as slapping by your own volution, it is a combination of your own taste but also social conditioning. Regardless tho, music, factually, is not being played as much as the negative stuff imo

@seismic6435

4 ай бұрын

@chief-long-john dawg, ear worms and music theory are things. Everything ultimately breaks down to math. For example, an in-pocket triplet flow will always be hot because it's mathematically sound. There's a science to making pop hits and they all share similar chord progressions. Bops are bops for reasons

@chief-long-john

4 ай бұрын

@@seismic6435 oh I absolutely agree. Music theory is a factor but are you really going to act that the most popular song have music theory integrity? Do we have proofs for this?

really miss these convos, interesting points here

I'm 28, been watching you guys since I was a Junior in Highschool. You guys have no idea the impact yall had on me maturing into an adult. I for sure have taken a critical thinking perspective to art because of you guys.

These conversations are great. As a white guy living in the UK, but also a big rap fan these it's great to hear your POV on big topics

vast aire said it best, "hip hop was at its best when it lacked television, and everyone wasn't an emcee"

I agree with feefo because thats how alot of us picked up Hip Hop from others...i heard about alot of hip hop because you guys shed light on it

Oh snap

This why I want y'all to review Lukah from Memphis. This is perfect

That beat is so beautiful, they brought it back!

If you notice most younger hip hop fans listening to older rap it becomes clear that they mainly go as far as the 90s. The 80s is ignored not because of the message or anything like that but because the sound is just not appealing anymore. As a genre of music evolves into new phases and sounds it either brings new fans or alienates old fans. Messages within the music is an important part of the change but I wouldn't say it's the main thing that makes an artist. For me as a younger fan, TPAB is one of my favs because I like how it sounds while the message is more there for further appreciation; if it sounded like ass it wouldn't matter how conscious it is the album would've still sucked. If it sounds bad then the poor message will only further my dislike for it, maybe in some cases I won't give it a pass when it sounds good but the message/lyrics are so outlandishly bad that I give up. People have different reasons for why a song is meaningful or good its just that for someone like me it happens to be mainly when it sounds good and catchy.

I wish I could have convos with the DEHH crew as a 21 year old... Because I tend to click off of these convos after a while since all I hear are perspectives from my dad's generation which isnt anyone's fault, but i promise you, its as much of an echo chamber as any other

@WillieEarlSon

8 ай бұрын

I’m 28, and i be curious of your take on it, cause i remember having these discussions with my uncles and cousins at 18,19. So I’m interested in your take

@dapluva1

8 ай бұрын

I’m 44 and care what your opinion is I really care about y’all young people but we both have to be open ears heart and mind.

@kentekuzan

8 ай бұрын

@dapluva1 I do listen to older people-- it's just that I have no choice but to do so and am often not included in the conversation and since I know the DEHH crew are both popular and busy, my take is likely to get lost in the mix as it is I tell my dad this all the time-- we've been learning from our parents for so long that we have a pretty good idea of what their perspectives are, but they don't know ours unless they ask

I'm a 21 year old black man, whose heard this conversation plenty of times, especially when I have them with older people. Honestly, I feel these conversations are starting to get a little tired at this point. We have the internet now, so the amount of access we have at our fingertips to different styles of hip-hop should paint a much more realistic picture of the current landscape of it, although I will admit that this is wishful thinking. While I do admit that on a mainstream level, the pendulum is swinging more toward the ratchet side of things, this whole labeling a culture "minstrel show" is a bit extreme. No, hip-hop is not a minstrel show, nor will it ever be. However, hip-hop just like any other genre of music, encompasses the spirit of those who made it: rowdy or composed, good or bad. Although I do believe that this article did ask a lot of hard questions and had good observations, there are even harder ones that would make people react with recoil or stir the pot, as it would hit way too close to home. As Myke said, "...some people may feel like their favorite artists are being attacked... and maybe they are." we as consumers may be as well... Think about it, if it was that easy for the industry to market a narrative for these artists, there would be no such thing as an underground scene, and topics of shelving artists would be non-existent because a cookie cutter process would've already been laid out and easy to follow. There are plenty of underground rappers we can name that have lived that ratchet, or tough guy lifestyle that will never see the light of day in the mainstream. Cookie-cutter artists, one hit wonders, and carbon copies have always existed but never have long trajectories, because there's nothing like an authentic artist. There is no guarantee of success in music, there isn't one way to make a hit song, or album. Things either resonate, or they don't... period. I feel like the author made hinted at what I'm about to say with that whole "they knew better" bit, but I wish that he went further and called even himself out. Look, for the sake of being transparent, Cardi B doesn't rap about putting her sexual prowess on a pedestal, while seducing and manipulating men because it sells well. She was actually a stripper that drugged, seduced, manipulated and robbed men, this is not an exaggeration, or her label trying to push an agenda, this was really her life. Should we expect any more from her given the evidence? To play devil's advocate, should we expect Logic to sound any "cooler" or more charismatic, like he's from the hood? Should we expect anything from any artist for that matter? "I want to get away from it a lot. I tried to get away from it, but you can't. That's what they taught me... the streets didn't teach me that thug life could never die, the world taught me that...." - Tupac, Vibe Magazine "You could take your boy out the hood, but you can't take the hood out the homeboy..." - The Comrads The industry doesn't generate the sales, WE DO. Without us, as in the artists or the audience, there ISN'T an industry. Pretending that the middle man is responsible for our actions as consumers, creates a scapegoat which allows us to turn a blind eye to our own thoughts and feelings, which would be why the industry has so much control over us in the first place. We gave it to them. "they [labels] don't know they just study the charts me, I study the shows the fans study their hearts." - Let Nas Down, J. Cole So if people truly believe that hip-hop is a minstrel show, then the question would fall more on the audience than anyone else in this scenario. We may find that some people who were shitting on hip-hop back in the day had a few good points. We may also find aspects of ourselves that contradict our stance on culture and what we know fundamentally. Whether we choose to change our perspective and whether that's the right decision is another question for another day. But at the very least, you should be able to know by now whether you're participating in a minstrel show or not.

@Katrill28

8 ай бұрын

Well said, I don’t like blaming the artists because most of the time it’s their real expression of their lifestyle. There’s so many corners of hip hop nowadays & if you’re really into the genre you shouldn’t be worrying about the “mainstream” at this point. There’s always going to be watered down commercial music & it’s been that way for a long time. The radio isn’t even relevant anymore & thanks to the internet you can be independent without conforming to the mainstream & “make it” in your own right. The industry is always trying to catch on to new trends and exploit what they think works. To call it a minstrel show is very belittling to the artists imo, theres plenty of great music being made.

@ZoeCave

7 ай бұрын

What you're saying is true but it is a mixture of both. A distinction has to be made between artists talking about very dark things that happened in their lives versus artists talking about these things because it's a mixture of execs telling them that they should or doing so because it sells better. Recently, Billie Eilish said something along those lines that artists say they've done things but didn't. Even Nicki Minaj has said something along those lines, too.

Good discussion.

32:00 Yooo they mentioned Unc! Shoutout to Shawn, fr.

I really think when you all have a state of hip hop conversation, there needs to be a foil to the arguments. I'd argue that hip hop music is just as conscious as it's always been, it's just some shit isn't hot. No one is listening to Kendrick solely because it's conscious, it's because he makes good music with a conscious message. If niggas music isn't good, it's not getting played period

@JulianWyllie

8 ай бұрын

Not saying you're wrong, I'm just interested in your argument. Who are the current acts to you that have some conscious styles to them but don't make good music?

@dominiquesmith7680

8 ай бұрын

This is valid and something that isn’t talked about enough. You gotta make dope shit, you can’t just be conscious or have good lyrical ability

@WillieEarlSon

8 ай бұрын

I agree partially to this, i firmly agree a lot of conscious artist sometimes picky subpar production with that being said you have artist who are picking great production who are either political, conscious or have a subject matter that isn’t the status quo ex. Earthgang, JID, mick jenkins, Noname, smino, saba. Pivot gang. A lot of these artist talk about social topics, relatable issues such losing a loved one, relationships woes, trials and errors of life.

@stephonkerr641

8 ай бұрын

I kinda disagree I do see your point though. The most popular songs is not conscious records even the top hiphop artists right now are mostly trap artists. I mean just look at the XXL list which is a reflection of the next generation of rappers. If your talking about hiphop as whole than yeah I feel you but mainstream wise conscious hiphop is in the gutter the youth doesn’t wanna hear that outside of Cole & Kendrick. You can make good music which is subjective, but if it’s not catchy & quick your average young hiphop fan probably wouldn’t fuck with it.

16:50 I think Ken hit the nail on the head here. Specifically, the 1996-97 Telecommunications Act gave the music industry the legal cover to monopolize radio and then streaming. Justin Hunte did a whole video on this subject earlier this year. 20:00 Little Brother thought the ringtone era was such a minstrel show that they literally released an album called The Minstrel Show. Going back to the gangsta rap era: Illadelph & Stakes is High-Common’s I Use To Love H.E.R all dealt with this issue in the 90s. Basically, after Public Enemy the music industry decided that era and the peak Native Toungues era would never happen again. Sometimes the bad guys win🤷🏾‍♂️

Love this convos! Love from mexico city!

Reminds me of the Chris Rock piece about how "I love rap, but I'm tired of defending it."

I think another way we need to look at this is the manner of which artists are branded too. There’s a lot of dope rappers or artists but the ones with the best branding have the staying power along with the skills. Best examples of this are 50, Ye, Wayne and all three are different from each other.

Shoutout to DEHH, so many good 26:26 albums I would be unaware w/o this channel.

Myke the Kid C Town Back Again!!!💯🕺🏽

Artist like Add-2 and Dee-1 have been overlooked nationally. But they do have core fans. Because I think Add-2 Jim Crow The Musical album is a classic.

11:05 Did somebody say Minstrel Show? Ya'll was watching UBN? Little Brother tried to tell ya'll back in 2005.

I wonder if in todays time if the blame can be shared, like the audience for accepting and not searching for more, the artist for maybe not expanding their platform and uplifting other artist. It’s hard for me to critique the industry not because they are without blame but it’s the INDUSTRY, it’s always been about the dollar and exploitation, and controlling the narrative and idk how artist who are signed to do that.

I need this beat on this video to be on Apple Music or something bruh 🔥🔥

On the topic of the Chronic, i think that its westcoast identity is secondary to the main point, which is its identity as a commercial album. The Chronic is the realization of commercial rap and a signal that rap can be commercialized and commodified under the banner of capitalism. Its Westcoast characteristics are merely dressings compared to that, though it makes complete sense that the first album to pave this new path for commercialism came outside of new york. Schooly D was from Philly, Dre from Cali. In order to challenge Hip Hop's guard at that time, it had to come out outside of New York's fundamentalism of the time.

This isn't to ignore the clear agendas that labels, etc. are pushing but I've got a thought regarding visibility and optics (and I felt like Kevin Powell started acknowledging this during the segments on Cube and Ye) I remember for the longest time, being real and genuine were defining factors of an artist and a shift occurring around that, that probably lines up with hip hops digestion by the mainstream. But it's interesting that we don't talk about that with regards to conscious rappers. Like many public political figures, I feel like mainstream conscious rappers also struggle to walk their talk without engaging in controversial or hypocritical actions. I think about Public Enemy's references to Farrakhan as inspiration, who has his own can of worms that mirrors the issue with Jay Electronica. Immortal Technique was musically respected but I feel like I only hear stories about how much of an asshole he is. Talib Kweli is conscious but his internet presence, on Twitter and Instagram, drives people insane. Killer Mike's been dropping the ball left and right (following in dudes like Ice Cube's footsteps). Not to mention rappers I followed that I thought were conscious/political coming out as abusive before mentioning how they were blatantly misogynistic, homophobic or transphobic (or all three). Even the rappers Kevin Powell mentions like Chance, who aside from public perception of corniness, is still an avid Ye supporter. And although it's beautiful that Tobe brings his family everywhere, he's said plenty of things about his wife that've led people to questioning their relationship and public appearance. When you're already fighting an uphill battle on credibility, especially for making music that feels "preachy" and like you're talking down to people, and your image is so accessible... I have to wonder if this adds to the declining support of mainstream "conscious" Hip Hop?

8:50 The subliminal Steve Harvey diss

18:31 Rod makes a great point, Myke gets disingenuous

In the ringtone era, they had a song called "chain hang low", yes it was a minstrel show my g. Lol

Are y’all going to review Nick Grant new album?

I don’t think we should completely stop the “ratchet shit” because hip hop has always been a balance but that’s definitely what we need more of - especially in the mainstream. We have so many young, bright talents coming up like MIKE, Navy Blue, Saba, Smino, Redveil, Mavi, Etc. spreading a beautiful pro black - politically conscious message but they just aren’t being pushed into the mainstream the way they should be.

@warnaoh

8 ай бұрын

Not like people are prevented from listening to them. Like it or not people want less and less politic in their music. It's not just hip hop

@shrubs5098

8 ай бұрын

@@warnaoh I agree, I’m just speaking for myself in what I would like to see in hip hop, I understand not everyone wants to hear that

@MapleGlazedDonuts

8 ай бұрын

​@@warnaohthat's why that Oliver guys song was so popular? The evidence proves otherwise. Btw hip hop is 100% pop now. I've never looked at a pop fan for their tastes

@warnaoh

8 ай бұрын

@@MapleGlazedDonuts How much replay value do you think this song will get ? Yeah you can have a viral moment but will people still be listening to your song in 6 months ?

Isnt this also what Denzel's clout cobain video is about?

Ken had somewhere to go after the shoot that boy looking fly 😂🤝

There has always been a referendum on the state of hip-hop since the 90s. This is just an updated version. TBH my question is why aren't radio promoters, music executives, and streaming services curators questioned about their selection of what get's played on playlists on radio and streaming platforms. The artist usually just put product out and hope an audience likes it and plays it. It's the behind the scenes guys who needed to get interrogated just as much. Like when the Breakfast Club hosted Lyor Cohen. Cohen was pretty frank about being an opportunist but where were the others. Lyor is now the global head of music for Google/KZread ironically. And as far as socially aware rap or political rap, you have to walk a fine line. Ice-T took some real heat in the 80s for the Cop Killer record that the police unions went after the corporate big wigs to force him to pull the record, Lupe Fiasco essentially got blackballed in the 2000s when he put out "Words I Never Said" during the Obama years about the drone strikes, and even Lil Baby apparently got taken to task by an industry executive after he released the "The Bigger Picture" record. There are real consequences for speaking up or even seeking to simply empower folks, and most of the more popular rappers ain't willing to risk their career and livelihoods for the cause PERIOD. Takes courage IMO. Look at the backlash Kendrick faced. He puts out "Blacker the Berry" speaking on the injustices and he caught flack for "respectability politics", he does "Alright" which was a uplifting song that BLM runs with, but then Noname takes him an J Cole to task for not being as outspoken the with George Floyd protest were going on. Kendrick basically has been netural on certain stances since.

The article was a wonderful homage to what he thinks hip hop was, and currently is; it was also nice for him to try and trace the root of "where the problems started." I think he's a bit off base on where that started and the current traits of society in relation to that music. Music, media, and culture can often times work paradoxically. If what proliferates the general public is mostly "insert n word, b word for women, etc" then society isn't necessarily a mirror to current societal ideals.. In other words, the features of the music don't mirror the reality of the world. Further, there are many artists these days that are attempting to buck this trend, popularity wise and not just kendrick, by being a different kind of rapper in real life. (See lil uzi vert.) When the music was more political among the public consciousness, it was actually worse for those groups. Music has become more like Cardi B, Migos and such, but the world is certainly better for those people while making less political music. Music "deteriorated" but the world still got better in certain ways for those groups. I think the problem started when black culture began to shift away from academics and social norms in favor of a different way of living: i.e. "acting black." The antithesis of this, which was wonderfully explained in Stuart bucks book, called "acting white." He traces this back to just after the Civil rights legislation and movement concluded. His formulation, which I agree with, is that the group saw certain social behaviors as something white. There was activism that fought for fitting and thriving within social norms. There was another kind of activism that said, forget this system and this "white" way of living. That, I think, is the root of hip hop, rap, and that kind of social antagonism. I think that's a better or more accurate proxy than "it all started with the chronic." It seemed to be the natural progression of where that kind of way of thinking results in. And to a certain degree, hip hop could always have been considered a form of "minstrelsy." N.W.A. selling mostly to "white" Americans drives that point home. But what other cultures thinks of black Americans (they only dance and shake their butt, they're only poor, etc.) It fits directly into what "white" Americans would consider a caricature of a "black" person. And again, they're the ones who predominantly buy the music. This isn't a bad thing, it's just a reality. The sheer number of artists these days helps mitigate the problem Kevin describes. There are currently more rappers than have ever existed, including those that are socially conscious. Edit: for example, something like this was made in 1988, 5 years before the chronic came out. The problem that resulted in what Kevin is talking about had already taken root years before. kzread.info/dash/bejne/X4V2qduDnNStaLA.htmlsi=9_ib05WmgwpiYcCJ

@warnaoh

8 ай бұрын

OutKast /2 PAC are more popular than NWA and they re quitte different... your white people buy hip.hop that confirms their "black" caricature isn't that obvious. They just want to be entertained, and black conscious shit isn't what they want. It is what it is and why would it be any different?

Articles like this can be taught and brought up in schools. Parents such as myself can share with our teenagers. It is on us the people to share positive rap talk.

Why is it necessary for conscious music to be in the mainstream, especially since hip hop has been commodified? There's plenty of rappers younger than Cole and Kendrick making socially conscious music, some making music more conscious than them. Personally I'd be highly skeptical of a mainstream socially conscious rapper, b/c I would question the limits of how conscious their message is or could be.

let´s keep it 100, the late 80s and the entire 90s even with the shiny suit era we still had the wu era mobb deep era heltah skeltah ras kass on the west coast then you had the roots in phily, jedi mind tricks too, common in chicago, hieroglyphics in the bay area, you had casual, del, the pharcyde, you had cube wc, mack 10, you had outkast, goodie mob you had variety dat good ol gangsta shit was great but also you had consciousness being developed , the chronic might ve been negative yeah but it started g funk it catapulted snoop and the dogg pound to success lady of rage and rbx to notoriety and influenced mad producers and beatmakers

@Jimmy1982Playlists

8 ай бұрын

The thing people also forget is that, back then, a lot of the gangsta rap was mad political, too. The two groups that made me fall in love with HipHop - and with music, in general - was, first, Public Enemy and then NWA... and when they had Cube, NWA was very political. Of course, Cube kept that up, solo. Artists like Tupac, Scarface and Geto Boys, Above The Law, Ice T and others were able to balance the political and street. Even something like _The Chronic_ (one of my top 5 HipHop albums ever) had a track like "Lil Ghetto Boy". The thing about that album is it was so great, sonically, that it spread (more than any other previous album) into the suburbs, and these yt kids who previously knew little to nothing about HipHop thought that's all the culture was, which started a change-reaction in the way labels and artists marketed to the public, etc. But it's absolutely one of the great albums in all of music, imo. Edit: the "shiny suit" era is much more responsible for where we are now than _The Chronic_ or early '90s gangsta rap, cause that was political, too. It was that bouncy club ish that drained HipHop of all its meaning.

@user-vc6yt8yc3w

8 ай бұрын

@@Jimmy1982Playlists i gotta agree with you a lot not only them but even straight disrespectfull gangsta rap like eazy's eazy duz it was so unique mufukas couldnt help it but to love it eazy was the most unique character of the 80s besides biz markie in the east and maybe bushwick bill in the south these three characters were hilarious i will say this tho , it did take me a bit of while to truly fall in love public enemy but once it hitted me it was done deal, although me being latino and a ganja puffer as a teen, i related more to early cypress hill , delinquen habit s funkdoobiest and house of pain, but do not get me wrong the reason i really love hip hop as much as i do were albums such as the chronic doggystyle illmatic ready to die anything that was funky i would rock it from outkast to goodie mob to cube to westside conection if it was funky i just needed it

@Jimmy1982Playlists

8 ай бұрын

​​@@user-vc6yt8yc3w I love just about every one of the artists you mentioned... was obsessed with PE when I was between 7 and 9 yrs old, and dug KRS-ONE, Rakim, etc. As a California kid, I loved the G-Funk that came along right after that. It went from PE to NWA, then to Cypress Hill, the whole Death Row crew & Ice Cube solo (then Lench Mob, and, later, Westside Connection), Eazy-E and Ren, Geto Boys, Scarface, Bushwick, etc... and the East came back with artists like Wu-Tang, Nas, BIG, etc. And Outkast and Goodie Mob were absolutely huge for me from the mid'90s on. The '00s were pretty 🤬 rough, tho... still the worst era for HipHop, imo.

@user-vc6yt8yc3w

8 ай бұрын

@@Jimmy1982Playlists my story or should i say my history with hip hop is a lil bit different than yours given that i´m peruvian and i remain living in peru althought a few time i´ve travelled to states i was born in 1980 and my encounter with hip hop was through movies like that drug traffic movie with ice t as a cop and weslie snipes as a drug lord i think in harlem with G money and the rest of the click also do what´s right(or the right thing) with spike lee actually acting as pizza deliver guy with radio raheem then i saw the kid n play movie got into mc hammer and vanilla ice might have played some ice cube some ice t and maybe some n.w.a. but againg i wasnt familiar with hip hop as a culture the whole infinitive lessons the 9 elements and the philosophy of it when i turned 16 or maybe 17 back in the mid to late 90s beastie boys blew up like nitro(shot out to biggie)and mtv really starting fuck with cypress hill the beasties and latinoamerican hip hop that took me to this place in which could find all kinds of underground music fom modern peruvian music to regggae to latinoamerican rock classic jazz electro it was like a mall of different music stores there i became i digger for tapes and then cds if i gotta describe my taste in rap i´d say i love the wu era, the soul assassins even now, some death row, some likwit crew, lots of dungeon family a whole lots def jam, loud, rawkus some baby grande some rhymesayers and more modern acts if i gotta come up with a top10 right now i dont think i need to over stress myself cause there some albums i might have played a million times 1)method man and Redman=blackout 2)outkast=aqueminy 3)the D.O.C.=no one can do it better 4)Big L=lifestyles ov da poor and dangerous 5)KRS ONE=return of the boom bap 6)Redman=muddy watters 7)xzibit=at the speed of life 8)busta rhymes= the coming 9)onyx all we got iz uz 10)freddie foxxx=industry shakedown

Kendrick is not the only rapper that makes alternative/conscious/backpack rap music. Obviously, DEHH is fans of him but he’s not the only one.

I’m born in 90 and of course the 2000s was my intro to rap where it really stuck with me. I know 90s shit but 2000s was the real intro and I love that music but the era I identify with the most is the late 2000s early 2010s rap when I became a man and I loved the representation of that time. Granted the drake, asap, Kendrick, Cole, tyga, wale, meek, Cudi, future, Sean, wiz wasn’t conscious music but it definitely wasn’t gangsta rap or like it is now with this killing rap. It had an everyday person kind of feel. Not too much on this side and not too much on that side. None of them dudes was too conscious it felt like getting preached to and none of them was the most gangster rapper you’ve ever heard, they just was kinda them and they are still that way now.

I think the number one reason the industry went behind the chronic was because it was more appealing to white suburban kids ( contrasting their parents values (slang, fashion, drugs) while not undermining their privalage (capitalism, materialism, Male dominance) and giving them a safe and voyeuristic viewpoint on a foreign world)

@manrez5295

8 ай бұрын

Oh and also: white kids had more money, so the industry expacted a bigger return from this suburban audiance.

🔥🔥🔥💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾

Younger people need that guidance. I see this same stuff within the breakin (breakdancing) community. Some of the younger people coming up don't want to hear it from the OGs. It's that 'you don't get it' and 'out of touch' talk. To be honest, to a degree, there is some validity in there. A lot has changed and advanced in the past few decades. I don't necessarily think society is set up in a way for the younger generation to think critically about the world (that's not to say that they can't). There's more to this than meets the eye. Rise of social media and technology in general. It's distractions upon distractions and different types of addictions. When one is so wrapped up in this stuff, when are you really spending time looking outward, analysing and reflecting upon real life events? It's not an old vs young thing to me. I think it's more of a construct that's in place so less people are talking about real shit and therefore spotlighting real shit.

@asanitheafrofuturist

8 ай бұрын

Not being on social media too often definitely helps bring a solid perspective

It is important to keep talking about this because its getting worse!!!(the lyrics)

Felt like Myke kinda shat on Feefo's valid point of using: what's in my rotation as a benchmark for discussing more in-depth songs and discovering artist that people may not have heard before. Because the contextual purpose of was in my rotation is to put you on to other specific non-traditional artists and artist that you made already like but giving you a breakdown as to why the like them even more. That helps more than just a specific conversation can do because you're literally putting art and someone face and now they really can see an experienced it by not just pressing play but trusting the opinion of someone that will go those extra miles to show the depth of artist.

If you make good music it will be listened to. What they do came out in 96

Do y’all think it’s because of the consumer and the industry is just following suit ?

I love Myles take

I try not to spread the idea that hip hop is dead. Even though, my soul would love hip hop to be fun, informative, positive, uplifting and fun again. Club music will always be fun to listen to. Trap beats. Buut obviously you can’t live off candy, there has to be something more down to earth. Don’t get me started on America 🇺🇸 😂. Love y’all.

Artist to go listen : sylvan lacue ,kota the friend, malz monday.

@dihajjar2888

Күн бұрын

meh...

CRRRAAAZZYYY KEVIN POWEL

The Roots - What They Do (Official Music Video)

Little Brother was ahead of their time…

The "ratchet s" for lack of a better phrase....it's easy to id the formula and reproduce it. Even Hammer had a gangster album. The same could be said for trap. Easy formula there to replicate and sell. Capitalism. Something like Arrested Development, record labels were never going to attempt to replicate that. Formula too hard to put on an assembly line. Same with Kendrick. You're not just going to dupe a bunch of Kendrick clones.

Feefo is the Afro-Cuban Brendan Schaub. He calls a man "great" one sentence before admitting he's never heard of him. 😂

Man chance had it..positive message always…cool..literally was about to be at that drake level… had to drop that damn Big day😂😂 dammit man. But I’d put JID up there…shiii the whole spillage village frfr..they on that slow jcole rise to like dominate stardom and they keep it positive, pro black, and uplifting.

Because we always champion destructive, degrading, boasting music over conscious, positive and empowering music. Majority of teens are calling conscious music boring.

Why is the conversation always centered around young people? How many older rappers are setting the example and reaching out to these young rappers?

@directedbysunny

8 ай бұрын

Because that’s the audience that major companies and labels are aiming for. They aren’t worried about what older people are thinking because they aren’t the ones on TikTok and Socials making things trend/popular. When older rappers have tried to do this with younger artist it’s automatic push back and “you’re just old” from what i saw.

come on kendrick is not the only one Black thought is succeding bringing great lyricism, common earned a grammy, you got tobe nwigwe, royce dropped the heaven experience how bout j. cole, joey bad ass, Locksmith has been hitting the underground scene, kanye even though i dont listen to him is one of the greatest icons of all time you had blackstar talib kweli with diamond d you have detroit artist such as elzhi and clear soul forces, or super groups such as coast contra, great alternative artists such as anderson paak Krs one dropped two albums full black content not too long ago public enemy remains alive even during the elections era paris dropped a bomb

@Jimmy1982Playlists

8 ай бұрын

And most of those artists, save Kendrick (Kanye doesn't count anymore as positive) are not marketed in the same way... ESPECIALLY KRS-ONE and Public Enemy! I told other old heads complaining about the state of HipHop that we were in the best era besides the Golden Era and mentioned the KRS-ONE albums and the PE albums and they hadn't heard either of them had new projects out... they addressed this in the video: they're not saying there are no conscious HipHop artists. They're talking about what the industry pushes, which is a convo going back to the mid-'90s!

@robertfoster6940

8 ай бұрын

Mainstream he and J Cole are the only ones.

@Lyndon-ub2cj

8 ай бұрын

@@Jimmy1982Playlists ye does count his last 2 Albums been full on gospel orientated lol its Even more positive then his old work.

Unfortunately, this conversation feels like an old man yelling at the cloud

Stereotypes get marketed to you know who.That has been happen forever. KZread hip hop topics are getting stale and worn out.Little Brother made an album called Minstrel Show I listened to in college.Kevin Powell is late to the party.

Is there necessarily an agenda? Or is it just a capitalist formula? I wonder sometimes

Everything said in this video is real.

yeah in the mainstream there is no balance, the concious stuff doesn't get the push the rachet stuff gets for obvious reasons, because the demographic majority is under 25, and thats what most of them are into the rebelious stuff. back in the late 80s/early 90s it was better and different because it wasn't about money, now that it is, it ruined the music in the mainstream.

Still a little NY bias. What about Outkast/Goodie

Let me give you positive artists that Millenials Care about and listen to: Andre 2k JID Kendrick Lamar Denzel Curry Big Krit Rhapsody J Cole Royce Da 5'9 Vince Staples Nipsey Hustle (RIP) Earthgang Smino Cordae On top of those artists you can add all the underground artists too because even tho im only mainstream in my listening, their is a great number of Millenials who listen to ALOT of underground music. Lastly we also know about and love ALOT of old music too. What yall think our parents was playing when we was little, some bs? Lol we can easily pull out a rnb and soul Playlist that would surprise any oldhead lol

@AssasinscreedX29

8 ай бұрын

Millenials are late 80's to 95' just incase anyone needs to know.

@AssasinscreedX29

8 ай бұрын

Also I would like to add 6Lack too, his last album was dope. Underrated imo

@Jimmy1982Playlists

8 ай бұрын

​​​@@AssasinscreedX29 Millenials started in the early '80s lol... I'm 41 and I'm a millenial. Old enough to have grown up on old school HipHop since in '89. Most of the DEHH guys gotta be Millenial. They're talking mostly Gen Z and younger who don't know or care what HipHop used to be.

@AssasinscreedX29

8 ай бұрын

@@Jimmy1982Playlists well it's crazy when talking about Millenials, we get bunched up into GenZ ALL the time I see it everyday. Also I think it's a timing thing too along with deaths of rappers too because artists still have to grow if they start out rough IE 21 Savage. Their was alot of young rappers in recent times who would've made a positive impact on hip hop imo. Lastly after 2013 I mainly discovered new artists through either KZread or people I talked to online or in person. I stopped listening to the radio, and I feel like the younger kids "Radio" IS youtube or Spotify. Hell their a KZread channel called colors that's always putting new artists on. I wouldn't be surprised if the younger genZ has gotten some new artists on there, not saying all but a good lump sum.

@Jimmy1982Playlists

8 ай бұрын

​@@AssasinscreedX29 Yeah, the lumping together of everyone under 40 as "Millenials" absolutely kills me 🤦‍♂️

While the original question, minstrelsy, i agree with, that's about where it stops for me with this article. Aside from the inaccuracies, it strikes me as over politicizing (or at least in one direction, as the writer is sure to slam alleged "right-wing" stuff, but completely ignore the left's failures/hypocrisies/etc., and the way Hip-Hop is perverted and twisted for those purposes as well, such as CARBI B of all people talking to Bernie Sanders about Black people's political stances [she's not even Black] or Jay-Z/Beyonce being rolled out for Hilary in obvious pandering) and one of the infinite ways to conflate Black American issues/accomplishment/creation with other groups, stealing our light and energy. He makes sure to mention "Latinx" and "West Indians" as co-creators of the culture (both of which are false), but only comes down on Black artists as if there isn't fuckery on all sides. As usual, we get all the negative, but the other groups get to individually keep their positive. It came off as thinly veiled "pull your pants up" and "be a good, moral, Democrat Negro" talk instead of a clean, simple cultural critique.