Sam, is cool if I Link my .357 vs .45 HOP test through "The Modern Meat Target" and double MDF Real World kzread.info/dash/bejne/ZZxm2rONYJydg8o.html

@DanTheWolfman

Ай бұрын

Dude, that is so cool of you Sam, thank you very much for that. Also, it was suggested to my by my EXPERT, that soaking boards to get them to around 20-22% water to get them closer to bone, instead of 11% ish...may be interested to try I guess would take a beaker, math, density of water etc...IDK if you might want to try that with some knows regular mdf, soacked a bit say 5 minutes, vs immersed over night in water or something see how it effects things could be a neat video

@GunSam

Ай бұрын

@@DanTheWolfman No problem. That's an interesting idea, to soak it.

@GunSam

Ай бұрын

@@DanTheWolfman I might try the soaked boards, but it wouldn't be a thing I would do for long term. My transition from water jugs and bologna to bologna in front of the clear gel didn't last long. It became apparent very quickly that wet materials in the gel will rot if you don't clean it out the same day. I am usually too tired to come home from filming, edit my videos and then cutup and clean gel all the the same day, so I gave it up and now only use dry materials.

@DanTheWolfman

Ай бұрын

@@GunSam gotcha

An actual gunsmith friend of mine said the exact same things you just mentioned here, Sam. He tested other calibers that were standard pressure and +P rated over chronographs and with meat. Basically the same results you got with the gel testing.

@johndoee3850

Ай бұрын

Federal headquarters will tell you different.

@CrashRacknShoot

Ай бұрын

​@@johndoee3850it also depends on the caliber and ammo company. For example, in 9mm, you will almost always get better expansion and thus less penetration with hollowpoints in +p. The case is so short, the only way to reliably up the pressure is to up the charge. More charge, *usually* more velocity with that. Now that being said, the only time I ever see the +p consistently shoot slower compared to standard pressue on average is with Federal ammo. HSTs are in the exact same boat.

@SCH292

Ай бұрын

Some +P stands for....+Profit. +Profit to the manufacturer.

@deplorableredneck4.02

Ай бұрын

Watch his other videos. Depends on what caliper

It is interesting that the difference in penetration between the rounds from the 2” and 4” barrels was fairly small.

@ravenrise320

Ай бұрын

In the U.S.? +P is like other nations' "standard" pressure cartridges. And when other nations load say, 9mm Para or .38 Special to a higher than THEIR "standard" pressure? It's more like going to a +P+....by U.S. standards. But THEY might call it a "+P". Basically, put? Most U.S. ammo is weak when compared to much of the rest of the civilized world's ammo production standards. This is by intentional design. American ammo makers are terrified of being held liable in court. So, to try and avoid that possibility as much as humanly possible? Most of the big, mainstream producers intentionally tend to download most of their handgun and even some of their rifle ammo.

@pauljenkins6877

Ай бұрын

@@ravenrise320 Do you have any data to support your assertions?

@recession81

Ай бұрын

Longer bull barrel ads more weight which makes less recoil and makes a better accurate shot especially with the standard 110 grain

@RTarms

Ай бұрын

I keep telling my wife the same thing!

Watching your videos is always worth it!

+P just allowed them to load the heavier bullet to similar velocity. However the heavier bullet seams to be constructed stronger which didn't work. Thanks for your test. Your testing really helps with determining a good round....among all the calibers you test.

I've never seen a standard pressure perform like that, especially out of a snub. Very impressive!

Thanks Sam! Anything .38 special is right up my alley! Great topic to investigate! Like you said, +p doesn't necessarily mean + performance. Also as you said, though It varies with the ammo.

Excellent post, Sam. Thanks for sharing.

@GunSam

Ай бұрын

Thank you

Thanks, I carry a 38 special.

@briankopp1369

Ай бұрын

Looser, why would you use such an outdated caliber, joke, I also do, because in my job, a semi auto fills with dirt and my 642 does not.

Great test as usual! It does make me wonder why Federal seems to have given up on the 38spl hst. They sold every round they could make, then poof they were gone.

@GunSam

Ай бұрын

I think because for the most part they under-penetrated. Also, they probably didn't make a lot of them and have ways of researching how well they sold VS other offerings and determined they didn't necessarily sell well.

@brianmoore1164

Ай бұрын

@@GunSam I wish they would revisit the idea. There is definitely a limited number of trustworthy 38spl loadings out there.

@loneranger6016

Ай бұрын

​@@brianmoore1164you might want to watch a video from "mixup98" he did a review of federal premium punch chambered in 38 special. They are made in about every caliber and there not too expensive compared to other self defense cartridges!!

Always my favorite channel

@hillbillyscholar8126

Ай бұрын

Agreed!

Such a good test. So informative and enjoyable, to watch. Thank you!

Good info man. I wouldn’t have guessed these results.

Thats wild! never would have guessed. Great test!

Great test, thanks for the work, very good info Sam

@GunSam

Ай бұрын

Thank you

GS. Good video and comparison. Not exactly what I would have expected. Thanks for sharing and take care.

@GunSam

Ай бұрын

Thanks. Take care.

Pressure is a tricky thing. Peak pressure is one thing but it is the length of time or the pulse width that does the work. 9mil has high pressure but a short full case. And you can shoot them in a .38 no issues. Recoil is probably the best indicator of power factor.

Thank you for this very informative video. I’m more disappointed in the consistency of the defense loads than I am the performance. Every company should make defense loads to more of match grade standards especially considering price per round.

I hate to sound all “fbi ballistic gel testy” and all but I was impressed to see that both rounds had acceptable penetration through a two inch barrel. I’m going to look for some 110 and see how well it shoots POA out to 25 from my Model 36.

@KillianCampbell-bo8nn

4 күн бұрын

Fantastic firearm the good ol Smith&Wesson model 36 j frame, it was the first revolver I ever shot at 10 years old

Go with the .38 standard pressure 158 grain semi-wadcutter.

@DinoNucci

Ай бұрын

Wrong

@timt8029

Ай бұрын

I still like a swc design. I think they are very under rated.

Thanks Sam. I'm still sticking with my Leihigh defender handloads 140 grain.

Great video, good information. My edc is .38 and it is interesting to see the difference in performance and then comparing to the outrageous cost in +p ammo I tend to just stick with standard.

thanks for the good video. bummer though. i was hoping this could replace critical defense +p for me. your video with 2 light strikes scared me

Our .38s are rated for standard pressure ammo, not +p...we're good with that, the important thought is to have the .38s...the standard pressure round is fully capable of changing hearts and minds, and heck, you could always lie and tell the bad guy 'welcome to .357 magnum', as the bore is the same size, lol...and seriously, we could load +p if we wanted to, the guns would handle it for the brief moments it needed...just couldn't run a steady diet of the stuff, that would be hard on the guns...

Thanks for testing these rounds. Like your results and that of others it seems like the +P is a gimmick. You pay for "more" for a promise of performance, but in reality you're fine with standard pressure with good shot placement. Thanks for all you do Sam! ♠️🎩🇺🇸🏹

Pressure readings are peak rather than average. It's possible to have a load with a high peak pressure and a lower average pressure than another load. So velocity isn't always higher with higher pressure load.

Great video. I love my two 38 specials. I have a Taurus 856 2 inch and a defender 3 inch. Also a Taurus 66 4 inch 357.

Great video. Love the revolvers 👍

@GunSam

Ай бұрын

Thank you

Great comparison.

Thanks Sam

Ya know, Im kind of surprised by the 110 standard results (and may even switch to it) but I really don't understand why Federal discontinued the 38 HST. I know there were complaints about the wadcutter profile but it performed extremely well. Yet they have the 380 HST, obviously the 38 special is going to perform better than the 380. They really could've did something simple like put the 147 (or the 150 micro) 9mm HST in a 38+p load. The 147 grain 38 +p+ Hydra-Shok was made with the 147 9mm Hydra-Shok bullet.

@jimhiller

Ай бұрын

It was very inconsistent and could not be produced to minimize those inconstant pressures and velocities

@magnum_0710

Ай бұрын

@jimhiller the 38 HST? I haven't seen many tests of it but the Lucky Gunner test of it was extremely impressive. In any case they could definitely take the 147 grain 9mm HST and it would be respectable in a 38 +p load provided they used the right powder to get velocity above 900 fps. It would be a much better performer than the Punch round forsure. Myself and others have done some testing loading the 147s in 38 and 357 and have got some impressive results. One of the recommended loads was a full charge of Win 231 but my preferred load is a full charge of HS6. More velocity and alot less pressure. Unfortunately I only carry factory ammo so my 38 carry ammo is Federal Punch for the time being. I mostly wanted to see if I could use them in an emergency but I did find out that Federal at one time loaded a 147 grain 38+p+ Hydra-Shok load for the FBI. They used the same 147 grain 9mm bullet for that load. Sure maybe the wadcutter profile 38 HST had its issues but they really should have some form of a 38 special HST even if it's not the same one as before. We gave the 357 HST finally too. It seems to be the only caliber missing at this point.

Informative, thanks

Great video. Tks.

Sam, I need you to understand the gravity of these videos and how much they mean. I carry a 357 snub, my wife purse carries a large-frame old 38 4”, and my oldest daughter has a 357 magnum k-frame 4”. So I buy 38 +P hollow points. It hurts a little out of my snubby, but my wife parks them in a 3” group at 30 yards. After this video, I will continue to buy 38 +P strictly for the performance advantage gained by a 4” barrel. And my hand can hurt, I don’t care.

@DinoNucci

Ай бұрын

No

Really appreciate your testing and evaluation methods which is why I support the channel. The .38 spc is what it is and I think expectations have to be limited. I am puzzled about the expansion or lack of on both +P rounds. That does seem odd and almost makes me want to ask Federal themselves about it and show them the footage to see how they explain it. If you do please let us know. Thanks again for another great break down of very commonly carried cartridge. This footage may give some people pause after the results.

That Hydrashock Standard is a good performer. I may have found my new carry ammo. Thanks

I have a S&W stainless model 60 which was made in 1981 and it is not rated for +P. I called S&W and they advised me only to use standard pressure ammo in this revolver. I am thinking of using some version of Hornady ammo in this firearm but so far, I am undecided.

Thank you for saving me money, on buying these loads❗The Plus P 129gr rounds.

@pecosjane

Ай бұрын

Federal makes a 130 grain .38 +P called Hydrashok DEEP. It is more expensive, but it does perform properly out of a 3" or 4" barrel, and a 2" depending on who is doing the testing.

Good info Thanks

GOOD INFO THANKS

Another classic Sam. Semper Fi🇺🇸and now we know…

Thanks !

Interesting. The 129 +P always seemed to have a rep for iffy expansion. I like the BB 158 LSWCHP +P myself, from a 2" K frame or a steel a J frame. From an alloy frame, either the Gold Dot 135 +p or one of the 125 +p's, like the old Rem SJHP (which seemed to be the secondost widely issued LE round back in the day, after the 158's. Just goes to show why ammo testing is important.

I would love to see someone do a study on reloading through the range of 38sp /38sp +p/357mag in the same revolver and graph fps vs penetration for a standard 125gn bullet. It would be nice to see the correlation between the two.

@timt8029

Ай бұрын

That's my kind of tests.

Good comparison and the standard pressure performance was a surprise. Oh and you really need to sharpen that knife :)

@GunSam

Ай бұрын

Doesn't seem to hold an edge. It's what I get for a $20 Cold Steel economy knife.

Good data & demo. Thank you. Not many 38 hollow points expand properly or consistently whether +p or not, especially in a snubby. So the 110 standard seems to be a decent option. Thank you.

To overcome the handicap of the jacket they pretty much have to go with a lighter bullet to keep the velocity up. To be honest I was surprised with how well that light weight bullet penetrated.

INTERESTING though POI may be lower w 110 & hitting upper thoracic vs stomach matters big time

Thanks for the vid. I've gone back to carrying revolvers and the vids help confirm my decision. I'd be curious to see what the difference between 2", 3", and 4".

My EDC is the 340PD, I don’t load it w/magnums and am considering going to standard pressure from my current 110 grain +P Hydrashock for better control. Appreciate the info Sam.

@GunSam

Ай бұрын

Thanks for watching.

@michaelkulman7095

Ай бұрын

.38 +P us going to be a lot more pleasant to shoot out of that light model than .357. Just make sure you see a test out of a short barrel of the HP expanding that you are thinking of because as this test showed some don't expand. It was a bit disillusioning... I guess the non +P he used in his test is an option if the recoil still bothers you with +P. Not great, not terrible... Again you saw a 2" barrel expand it some here so it's a possibility at least but with a very light 2" snub I think some non expanding rounds make some sense like fast wadcutters which he has other videos on. But ideally a .38 +P HP that you've got confidence in from a test in a short 2" or so barrel, confidence that it will actually expand. Good luck! Consider wadcutters or jacketed rounds in that light gun. Bullet creep is common with that light gun.

Nice one of the top 2 defensive hollowpoints. I wish Hydrashocks were less costly but a great expander! Very interesting test. I agree the +P in certain calibers is very deceiving and most people fall for it. Awesome job explaining how +P is just a pressure rating, and can be a fallacy it can sometimes be. I think it began with the 38spl/357 and 44 spl /44mag. Making more robust cartridge cases with higher powder charges/pressure that was not possible with the standard cases. Now its everywhere with the exact same pressure rated "standard cases" Like 380acp +P . Kinda a joke imho.

Hi. I'm 71. When I would go to the range, and in those days I had a CCL (nowadays my trips are in medevans, so nogo), I had a nonplusp snubby. I shot full, not HBWC's, wadcutters and semiwadcutters - both standard pressure. It's easier on the 2nd cylinder load using swc's. At "most noted 7 to 10 yards interchanges", both bullets are not far from their mark, and perform as designed, while not "designed to fail" as HP's are. Less recoil, for any hand, means less reluctance for next shot.

I've been in the firearms industry for many years, chronographed a lot of ammunition, and the only thing you can be sure of is every gun and load is a law unto itself. Some +P loads have substantially higher performance. Others don't. I've handloaded +P ammunition and all I got was sticky extraction in some cases. Sometimes you only see the +P load really pull ahead of the standard pressure version in a longer barrel. It just doesn't show up in 2" barrel guns. Or barely. I have seen that the +P 158 grain lead hollow point load will generally add right around another 150 fps to standard pressure 158 grain LRN in any barrel length, and gains very little additional velocity after 2" of barrel. It also has substantially more recoil and muzzle flash. Some guns just don't like it though. There's a significant noticable deterioration of accuracy versus standard pressure even at short range. Sometimes the base of the very soft lead bullet flares as it leaves the muzzle of the 1 7/8" barrel guns, disrupting its flight path. But generally not 2" barrels. I've seen it in recovered bullets. You wouldn't think that 1/8" of barrel could possibly make a difference. But sometimes it can. Sometimes it doesn't. You never know exactly what it's going to do in a particular gun until you test it. It only ever happens in the short guns, and never with jacketed bullets. So far as I've seen. But somebody out there is going to have a gun that just wildly slings +P jacketed bullets all over the place...

loved the death wish series

@GunSam

Ай бұрын

I like them all, even the 5th one which was an oddball produced and directed by different people. The ones in the 80s, like part 2 through 4 done by Golan Globus were definitely the best in my opinion.

@timt8029

Ай бұрын

​@@GunSamI've been meaning to go back and watch all those.

38 is the best for conceal and carry in my opinion.

Enjoyed the test! It demonstrates that manufactures often don't do much vetting of their product and assume customers don't, either. Except customers who buy alot, like big Police Departments. Hey! Unrelated Test Idea!: Lead round nose Vs Coated lead round nose. Does a coated lead bullet behave any differently than bare lead in test media with a softer lead around Brunell 10-14? I think a harder coating may behave differently, a softer coating, no.

Great topic. As a shooter without a target range we really can’t know anything about a cartridge we make or buy. I don’t believe manufacturers post videos of their bullets going into gel blocks. I assume they have a legal or marketing reason.

I think the Hydra-shok Deep is a little better but generally that 129 grain is supposed to be pretty good. Not sure why it didn't expand especially through the four inch barrel. I tested the 129 +P version through a snub nose in wetpack and had pretty good results but I know wetpack is nit the most scientific and is not like gel. I wonder if the type of gel makes a difference too. I have noticed some people using a brown synthetic SIM material that got different results from the same bullets through similar guns than other people got using clear gel. I am curious as to which one is better of if there is enough difference to matter.

I'll never understand why the standard grain for a sd load in 38 special is not 110 these days. With modern powders, you can get that thing moving enough to open up in almost any gun.

If you go through buffalo bore they definitely have a higher ft pound with +p and usually the same with underwood.

@timt8029

Ай бұрын

Exactly. Underwood has some great loads in various calibers but in my experience, buffalo bore are consistently very powerful. But you do pay up for them.

Apparently the alloy in the 129 +P is too tough for the minor velocity gain...being 110 and a 129 they are apparently two totally different bullets even though both are HS. Great test...reminds me to never stake my life on this ammo...jacketed bullets in most standard .38 Special rounds will never reliably expand in flesh...

Interesting. This addresses what I think is a common belief, you need +P to get expansion in .38SPL. I'm pretty sure most wouldn't have predicted that. The idea out there one hears is that no .38 unless +P reliably expands leading people to just consider +P loads even in models not rated for them. So you get people flocking towards +P loads, some of which will expand but many of which won't expand and many if not most people ignoring non+P loads even when their model is rated for them, isn't rated for +P. Non +P loads can make sense on several fronts. Non hollowpoint rounds can make sense on several fronts too. And yes, I'm aware that many feel and say some +P rounds can be put through a model not rated for them...at your own risk. I'm not suggesting that though. I feel many are just assuming their +P hollowpoints are going to expand and their non+P hollowpoints aren't as if it's a good rule of thumb or something or just a standard assumption. I feel many don't get your point about pressure versus power and the nuance of bullet weight. Therefore I think it's a very valuable video!

@michaelkulman7095

Ай бұрын

I meant, pressure versus performance... performance here meaning expansion...

@GunSam

Ай бұрын

One of the things I was trying to point out was simply that +P doesn't mean 20,000 PSI, it means 17,000 to 20,000 PSI and really, there's no risk there other than mild wear and tear. One thing though, is some people buy "standard pressure" Fiocchi or Magtech or any other host of brands that might use CIP specs which I believe are 21,700 PSI for "standard pressure", and they don't even realize this.

@michaelkulman7095

Ай бұрын

​@@GunSam​ Interesting. There is also the, are you getting what you paid for aspect of it in terms of expansion, the recoil you endure aspect of it and the cost aspect of it. I'm aware that excessive wear is more likely than something factory loaded +P blowing up some, SOME, quality non +P models made during certain years, maybe, in some people's opinion but personally I would read the gun...and shy away from that and I don't recommend it but I realize others have a different opinion. +P doesn't always justify itself either as your test showed. In non +P models some decent non expanding rounds exist as do a few that expand such that I don't feel +P has to be considered in models not rated for it. But that's just my opinion... I think fast wadcutters are viable. I think 158 grain round nose lead isn't that bad and is also useful for fast reloads when using wadcutters initially. That's partly based on an old Paul Harrell video on the round noses... and semi-wadcutters would be good in that role too...or both just used overall...maybe... maybe I'm just old fashioned though...

@exothermal.sprocket

Ай бұрын

Looking on the 38 Special Wikipedia page (Wiki is a great general source of data for most all handgun and rifle cartridges, at least they are consistent where they put the data), the CIP psi rating is 22,000 and the SAAMI psi rating is 17,500 psi. Pressure implies certain things, but its very inconclusive. There's dozens of propellants manufactured, which burn at different rates, ignited by various primers which excite the charge in variable ways... finally the resulting pressure is largely based on on the loaded container and barrel length. Max pressure is one thing, but *burn rate and duration* are something else. You can have a sharp spike in high pressure that is instantaneous, but lasting much less time than a lower pressure charge. The result is less overall velocity. It's almost like engine building, how much horsepower can someone get by modifying the way a piston, valvetrain, compression ratio, fuel charge, injection cycle, ignition timing, and all the rest functions. The devil is in the details.

@ElainesDomain

Ай бұрын

@@GunSam Curious that you mention Magtech. I have it in 158gr .357 from a long time ago. Muzzle velocity rated 1405 with a 4'' barrel. FMC Flat projectile. I don't see a PSI on the box.

Unless you have money to burn using +p or +p+ in a revolver with less than a 4 inch barrel us just that. The extra powder can't burn in that short of a barrel. So the fire balls you get are just like burning money because you pay more for the +p and +p+ than you do for standard pressure round.

One thing I always wondered, if buffalo bore and underwood can make those outdoor loads hit 500 ft lbs in 158 grain hardcast, why cant they make a +p 125 gr hp .38 that is like a moni magnum? Those outdoor loads are a whole new animal.

I use standard pressure .38SPL but it is only because my conceal carry revolver is an old Rossi snubby that is not rated for +P.

It would be lovely if ammunition companies would offer ballistic data on the box from several barrel lengths--and stop being so blitheringly optimistic about how much velocity they are offering.

do a review on the doubletap 38 special 140gr hardcast equalizer, the 2 bullets in every shot ammo, I'm not a fan of hollowpoints in my lcr 38 snubby, i carry full wadcutters for defense

Question about the test technique - does the performance of the cartridge vary with the temperature of the barrel? When watching these videos I try to detect a variation with time as the barrel heats up. I haven't noticed any, but that doesn't mean it's not there. My takeaway from the video is that if you get the higher pressure by using a heavier bullet, there is no advantage. Meaning that the +P stuff is mostly just hype to get people to buy new guns and more expensive ammo.

👍😊

My 642 is feel n pretty good…

I carry Federal Punch 130 grain +P.

I'm curious if they make the bullets for the +p harder? Many years back, when my old agency was selecting a .38 special load, we found that Federal in their Nyclad ammo used dead soft lead in their standard load but put some antimony in for their +p loads.

Slow and steady gets the job done best. +p means you paid more $$$.

Can you do a .25 ACP vs. 32 ACP…? Possibly include HP cartridges & FMJ for both calibers…

Do you have any left to pull the bullets and compare the powder charges? I think the 110 weight with higher pressure would have been a real winning load.

@GunSam

Ай бұрын

No lol. Would have been a good idea but I didn't think about it at the time. But I have hand loaded enough to know the powders seem about the same, and the data suggests that the powder is about the same type and amount.

How would a +P 110 bullet gave faired? The 125 would probably expand in a .357. I believe the difference lies in bullet construction rather than velocity.

Hi Sam, at 40 yards you put two shots in a row in what would be the 10 ring of the b27 (which is quite impressive), with standard pressure but the +p shot to the left, can it be reacting differently to the rifling?

@GunSam

Ай бұрын

I have no idea. I did notice a slight left grouping with the +P. I think the recoil is too light in a 40 OZ gun to cause a flinch, so it has to be the ammo just wanting to go left. I don't know the reason why though.

Larger H P for the 110 gr

I wonder about over penitration on any round so what if you put ballistic gel Infront of the Chronograph and see what velocity it had after passing through the media. Gel or baloney or whatever.

Bump

I like to use computer analogies: +P ammo is like an overclocked graphics card; it just means that the base speed of that card (the "base clock") is higher than the manufacturer selected "reference clock." Does it give you better performance? Sure. Is it better enough to matter? Maybe. But maybe not.

@GunSam

Ай бұрын

I used to overclock, then I just bought a newer PC where the card in it at the lowest settings is twice as good as the old overclocked one. So I guess that might mean .357 Magnum is the better one out of .38 VS .38+P lol

@PhycoKrusk

Ай бұрын

@@GunSam See? This guy knows what's up.

IMAGINE.... a munitions company marketing +p on their packaging and not actually adding cost to their own manufacturing (additional propellant in the same cartridge line).

@michaellavaughnrobinson

Ай бұрын

I saw an old video where Sam was talking about maybe doing a bullet tear down to shownhow much powder is actually in there. I think it'd be interesting to investigate the point you made, seems like sound thinking.

@exothermal.sprocket

Ай бұрын

He demonstrated the inertia bullet puller at one time. Basically it uses the weight of the projectile to force it out of the case mouth, then catches the powder charge. Would be an interesting exercise for sure.

Was the +p more expensive? That's usually pretty pricey stuff. Thanks for testing.

@GunSam

Ай бұрын

I think these were both the same price.

Looks like both bullets were borderline, but the 129 didn’t reach its threshold of expansion while the 110 did, just barely.

You compared the Norma MHP for expansion correct? Did it expand after going through clothing?

@GunSam

Ай бұрын

I have no idea lol. If I did it was awhile ago.

FYI: I have SLING TV and only your channel and Paul Harrell's channel have this problem. What happens every time I play your videos, you buffer up so bad it freezes up my TV. It nearly always happens right before your first shots into the gel.

@GunSam

Ай бұрын

Even though this should have zero bearing on that issue, I know for a fact that like me, Paul uses a GoPro as his main camera. Maybe that has something to do with it.

Algorithm

Have you gs seen the newerish with bruce willis pretty good also.

@kurtstewart4638

Ай бұрын

Death wish.

@GunSam

Ай бұрын

I have seen it. Wasn't bad, but it's one of those things where something works in a certain time and setting (like the 70's and 80's) and the idea is a bit more weird in modern times. Wasn't bad, I am a huge Bruce Willis fan, but the end where his legally owned AR was fully automatic was a bit weird.

How would this .38 standard compare against any of the .32 revolver tests ie H&R 327 fed mag .32 long.

@GunSam

Ай бұрын

The low end .327 Federal like the Federal Hydrashok .327 ironically, is similar in energy and performs similar to this 110 gr .38 Special. THe .32 Long and .32 H&R can't really do as well as this .38 Special. Now the higher end .327 Federal, performs more like 9mm+P.

@joesheetstheragman7737

Ай бұрын

@@GunSam cool, good info.

The longer barrel would have far more velocity.

Forget carrying those firearms. Just don't leave home with that KNIFE...LOL.

It’s actually difficult to find a .38 defensive round that isn’t +P

Your assumption are dead on ( no pun) my concern is the recoil 38/38+p vs 327 FM vs 32 H&R

I wonder if the 125gr (P+) bullet was designed for magnum speeds and they just decided to use the same bullet in the .38?

@GunSam

Ай бұрын

129 gr. They use a 130 gr in their low recoil .357 Magnum and I think it's a tad different.

@Mikkemeister

Ай бұрын

@@GunSam ok, so that is not the reason for lack of expansion then...

If I carrying 38 j frame I carrying Underwood 158 gr hard cast

So what's really the point of +P then; a little more supposed 'stopping power' (due to the slightly heavier weight) in a self-defense situation?... I've fired Remington UMC +P; they seem to have a little more oomph than standard pressure.

@GunSam

Ай бұрын

In typical brands of .38 Special there isn't much point, it's really only when you move into loads that are loaded properly like Buffalo Bore and Underwood ammo where the difference becomes apparent. Like in terms of ft lbs energy in a 4" barrel, those companies will have a .38 Special go from 250 to 350 ft lbs energy all day. For example, Hornady will load a .38 Special 125 gr XTP, even in a +P to like 950 FPS in a 4" barrel. The Underwood or BB version does like 1,100 FPS and beyond. In general +P is an advantage in power, but only when loaded right.

@carlosmorris4510

Ай бұрын

@@GunSam Alright, cool... Thanks for responding! 👍 That makes sense.

@carlosmorris4510

Ай бұрын

@@GunSam Hmmm... Just a thought: maybe the typical (weaker) brands of .38 Special +P are just meant to be used to simulate the heavier recoil of true +P's - for range practice (more cost-effective than using the really hot loads)?... The ones like Remington UMC +P, in 50 round boxes. But with what are suppose to be real defensive loads, as you've shown, there isn't any real difference - worse performance, even... This might be the case - although obviously this isn't explicitly stated on the boxes (* +P Practice Rounds, for example). This is curious; most people are probably thinking that they're getting a more powerful load with typical +P's then, when in actuality they aren't... Kinda misleading, really.

@timt8029

Ай бұрын

​@GunSam So well said. You shoot the outdoor loading from either company and it's very impressive yet only +p instead of +p+.

PizzA

So, the damage in the gel from the tumbling looks like it's creating a bigger wound channel. Why is that being discounted here? Am I missing something? It looks like the tumbling plus p is creating more damage and more felt energy...

@GunSam

Ай бұрын

It's not designed to tumble, so assessing that it's better because it tumbles sometimes, doesn't make it that great of a choice.

@progunliberal

Ай бұрын

@@GunSam butttt... Does it consistanly tumble? Like, if you put 6 rounds in the gel, do they all tumble and cause the same damage? Might be something to test. And what about the foot-pounds of felt energy in the target? Is it not higher with the heavier bullet? Just asking.

@GunSam

Ай бұрын

Ft lbs energy isn't everything. From older testimonies from cops on here, the .38 Special+P JHP in general stops bad guys a lot better than 9mm JHP loads, (based on info from cops who worked during the revolver to semi auto transition period). There is a good 100 ft lbs advantage with the 9mm but it doesn't seem to give it any real advantage.

@timt8029

Ай бұрын

I like some of the older hp designs for revolvers that had the exposed lead.

Who is Paul Kersey?

@pecosjane

Ай бұрын

Sorry. It's been a long busy day and I haven't had any time to dedicate for shitposting on the 'web today. I wanted to be sure to get one in before the end of the day. And, there's probably a few members of the younger generation who don't get the joke. Don't tell them.

@GunSam

Ай бұрын

It's Paul Harrell's birth name. He started his own shooting club after he won a bunch of competitions. He asked if I believed in Jesus because I was going to meet him. I told him, yeah. He's a nice dude.

@pecosjane

Ай бұрын

@@GunSam 😆😂🤣

@DinoNucci

Ай бұрын

​@@pecosjaneyour dad

@marksongbird7534

Ай бұрын

Death wish

For some reason my reply is getting deleted. Something wrong?

@markjones8958

Ай бұрын

I was commenting on your knife. Need to change blade angle.. If you sharpen to 30 degree, try 40.

@GunSam

Ай бұрын

I didn't delete any comments. Happens to me as well on other people's channels sometimes, I have no idea why.

@exothermal.sprocket

Ай бұрын

G00gle deletes billions per quarter. It's standard practice with their algorithms. Fr33 sp33ch is dead.

@DinoNucci

Ай бұрын

KZread blocks keywords

@exothermal.sprocket

Ай бұрын

@@DinoNucci Like "free" and "Speech"