I've never had to make a purchase in btd6, and I definitely wouldn't say the game in general is pay to win. But you're right, the cost of retries in ranked bosses is another story, especially since this level of cost isn't seen anywhere else in the game. If they were to make the cost of retries max out at 500 MM, like continues do, I think that would help massively. 1200 just isn't sustainable for almost any player.

@MackanRules

8 ай бұрын

Agreed! Overall it's not p2w at all, it's actually amazingly little stuff you can buy for real money at all... tbh if i owned the game i would monetize it more xD It's just as you say, one little part that is unbalanced in terms of cost.

@usernonegd3751

8 ай бұрын

@@MackanRules i have double cash

@KustProductions

8 ай бұрын

skill issue (i dont play bosses)

yeah completely agree that the bosses are too expensive. however i think strat copying is still a pretty big issue with the new gamemodes. in timed bosses, its about optimizing farming to get more money for more dps for faster time, which basically can never be perfect. however, lc/lt depends on numbers, so its much easier to have 100 people with the same score. the tiebreaker is okay i guess. also, once a good strat is found, its almost impossible to get even top 1% with another strat. with timed bosses you can do wacky strats and still get top 50. yeah i probably missed a bunch of points here but its like 10 pm as of writing this my brain juice has depleted also probably should have saved this comment for the next video but oh well

@MackanRules

8 ай бұрын

Yeah least tiers will most often have several players with the best possible score which is a bit meh despite having a time tiebreaker. Least tiers is still fun imo, and alot of the times there will be a strat that can cut 1 more tier of the strat but only 1-3 players pull it of each week which is good. But i prefer least cash since then there is a much much smaller chance of getting players with the same score since you can almost always shave another dollar of! :)

@tlsgrz6194

8 ай бұрын

You raise a very good point, but it's more of a counter-point to the problem Mackan talked about. Sharing strats is how everyone can compete for top ranks without having to spend 50€ on retrys, because most of that is done in the trial-and-error-phase of figuring out a strat. Once the "best" strat has been figured out, everyone has access to it, and the event is again more about how well you execute that strat, instead of if you have the money to spend on theorycrafting your own. I know that it's super annoying to have to get one more upgrade than the guide, and suddenly turning a top 20 run, in a top 20% run (figure of speech. As if I'd compete for top 20), but I still think it might be preferrable to having the vast majority of the community not being able to compete for any decent rank at all.

@MackanRules

8 ай бұрын

@@tlsgrz6194 Yeah! I sometimes don't spend time theorycrafting to make my own strat but just copy punji and try to improve on it, which can also be very fun to do! And it gives mid-tier players a chance at some decent medals. Even if they are given the strat they still won't be able to beat the best players. I don't see "strat copying" as a problem tbh

@jan-okkerockmann4877

8 ай бұрын

Since LC LT is more about strategizing, copying a strat is just why "top 50 guides" end up being top 1000 xd

@blueyandicy

6 ай бұрын

Plus, the balance between getting a fast time and not tanking your economy during early tiers is a super interesting dynamic that isn't seen in LC/LT

One of the main reasons I don't bother doing bosses anymore is because of how infuriating it feels to get so far only to lose.

@JS_360NC

8 ай бұрын

Insane skill issue

@josevinicius_prof

8 ай бұрын

Watch videos and understand the flaws in your strategy

@dorianshrv6967

8 ай бұрын

Literrally a skill issue

@bartoclub69

8 ай бұрын

how is that a skill issue even the top players lose they just have the money to continue

@Delixium

8 ай бұрын

that only happens during ranked to especially the top players, other times is just a massive skill issue@@bartoclub69

I honestly like least cash and least tiers the most. I’ve played hundreds of 2TC (repeats) and 3TC ABR (before sauda) and I LOVE this way of playing BTD6. Minimizing resources spent and optimizing how to beat a boss/100 rounds with the least resources. But part of the reason I love it so much is because of retry last round in challenge editor. I can optimize all I want without cost.

@MackanRules

8 ай бұрын

Me too! I love sitting for hours trying to optimize something to use a bit less money, it's competitive yet very relaxing :)

I've always felt several problems for boss events, _not_ ranked bosses: - Every single time a boss appears will feel near-identical to its last appearance, no matter what modifiers are applied; you can just repeat the same strategies for each appearance of the same boss and win basically every time. - The late game often doesn't require much more thinking than just spamming everything you can for the boss, and crashing the economy 59 times in-between. - Once the aforementioned overpowered strategy is found, the boss will become really, really easy. Whether the strategy has to feel different for each appearance or not, I would really like if the bosses remained difficult consistently.

@btdoverclock

8 ай бұрын

Hopefully NK will fix some of these problems next update with the paragon reworks. The power creep has gotten too much and bosses feel quite easy if you know what you are doing :)

@EggZu_

8 ай бұрын

@@btdoverclock i DONT know what i'm doing and i can beat normal bosses quite easy (although elites are too hard for me)

sounds like we need Race Passes for Boss events

@benjaminnilslin9522

8 ай бұрын

I thought of this too, and I really like it. Maybe something that could only be bought by real money to keep people spending, but at the same time letting the people spending try whatever they want. Maybe only a pass for the retry to 20/40/60... but not for last round, or only last round.

the cost of boss events really bother me. im fairly new to the game, and i just dont have the monkey money to get good runs. i cant test anything.

@XAnderson27

8 ай бұрын

And tbh, I am not going to spend 50k monkey money for so little reward. At most maybe I might indulge 1-2k max or just don’t bother altogether or don’t spend any. I much rather stick to having 260k monkey money lying around than to spend it for something so meaningless.

@eirikarnesen9691

8 ай бұрын

@@XAnderson27 and thats kinda sad. i like the boss events, they are fun. but i refuse to buy monkey money. im not a mobile gamer, i have standards

@Cacauboon

8 ай бұрын

U can use mods to get bosses on any map you want if you want to practice

@eirikarnesen9691

8 ай бұрын

@@Cacauboon thats a banable offence, for some reason. and its less about practice, and more about testing exactly how little i can use on teir 5. it varies from map to map. if my goal was propper top placements, i would use the mods, but i just dont think that should be needed

@seffers4788

8 ай бұрын

@@XAnderson27I’ve never spent monkey money on a boss event, no idea what you guys are talking about. Just play the game… without spending mm🥶

NK should make a "Boss Pass" similar to the Race Pass that allows you to continue for free for a specific boss event, they could add it to daily chests and maybe make it cost monkey money but idk how much

@MackanRules

8 ай бұрын

Hmm, never thought of that, worth a think!

I love the IRS comparison!

Conclusion: btd6 is p2w if you are a competetive player and like to grind out spots in boss events. But for casual players its definitely not. If you think btd6 is pay to win for casual players you are going to have a heart attack if you see what other companies have done (EA, Ubisoft, supercell...)

@lestevegmbh2637

8 ай бұрын

Well outside of chimps and ranked you have double cash mode

@nikolanovakov9290

8 ай бұрын

Yeah but you also have powers but never feel forced to use/buy dubble cash or powers. They make it easier but are not necessary

Tbh timed boss can be expensive af if you are going for top 20 or higher since you wouldnt want to throw a run for tiny mistakes

@blueyandicy

6 ай бұрын

Nah, they're only expensive if you're a coop top 20 player (like me). solo top 20 is always cheap asf

@dungduong1628

6 ай бұрын

@@blueyandicy oh hey I'm top 20 solo and I realized I only restart at r40 so It's cheap

The only purchase I’ve made on BTD6 is the game itself 😅

I think a better idea that NK would be more willing to do is: 1. after you restart a certain number of times in a boss the price should decrease until its way lower so the casuals still need to pay the same price but anyone doing dozens of restarts gets a break Or they could do 2. The higher your top placement is the cheaper it is! Top 10% = 10% off, top 1%/top 50 = 20% off, top 3 = 30%, top 2 = 40%, top 1 = half price.

Incredible timestamps🙏

@MackanRules

8 ай бұрын

Thanks, put alot of work into it! :'D

Remember to join the discord, so that you also dont have to do your homework

@mablungbalrog424

8 ай бұрын

eww, no thanks

@yeetdanoob

8 ай бұрын

remember, btd6 >>>>>>> grades

Contested territory is an even worse version of this as you actively need to use minimal defences, and it’s quite time based off when you use the tickets so it’s even more of a drainer. To make matters worse, the rewards are so insignificant that each event is a net loss

As a weekly non competitive boss player. I can't speak much on the competitive leader board aspect, but my favorite events have been where NK had basically said "alright too easy? F you" and cranked the difficulty up to 11 (Vortex on chutes and monkey lane) I spent so much monkey money trying to beat it. But I think that's also a problem to the more casual players because they would probably spend more monkey money than they have to beat those types of events. I don't think that NK can satisfy everyone with everything. So I'm thinking that that could apply to ranked events as well as some people are willing to buy MM while others are not. And people often don't have 15+ hours a week to play this funny monkey game. Another thing I've noticed as a person who has the ranked ticker turned on (why not? Free trophies) is that the competitive aspect of the game is very tiny in some areas. I play very casually and still end up above place 300 on the elite leader boards. Often even above 200. And thats around the top 25-50 percent of players that week. Maybe NK could lower the barrier of cost for elite resets specifically and see how that could affect that part of competitive play?

They should add boss in the challenge editor, so you could test new strategy for least tier and least cash without spending MM.

Me who is a free to play player+ being a a student it's literally impossible to do ranked

I feel like the economies in btd6 that are best made are those that have been around the longest. Things like tower unlocks are pretty balanced, in my opinion - you can get any tower in one game. It's a system that I think is fine. My problem lies with the monetization of the bosses and races, since they feel very at odds with the sandbox nature of the rest of the game. At the end of the day, btd6 is a game where you can do anything, and races and bosses sorta hurt that, at least from the money perspective.

as for your future video on competitive btd6, i think nk needs to rework contested territory. Of all its competitive game modes, ct has easily the highest potential, but the current mode prioritizes just playing and churning meh scores too much. I imagine altering it to maybe have a pool of challenges per day and whichever team does the best across such challenges wins would be a fun alternative.

"Buying powers will not be very often" Me buying farmer and tech bot every game cause Im way too lazy

@tpfoxCastro

8 ай бұрын

Yes, but that isn't an advantage, it's just something that makes your life a little easier. Unless you are trying to get something like round 600 freeplay you don't really need powers

@FaiLeD_nAmE

6 күн бұрын

I have 250 farmers rn 💀

@FaiLeD_nAmE

6 күн бұрын

I have 250 farmers rn 💀

I love unhinged rants about games i would play but have to play other games

Im pree casual i think so thanks for explaining why i was resetting at phayze so much. I was really confused why i was insta dying.

I solved the money problem by writing a little program that auto-plays a map over and over again. I just leave the program running with the game open overnight and voila, free money.

I think the best Investment for Casual Player that just want to Chil while playing is the Double Money Extra, you can turn it on and off at your will and if you use it you don't have to bother with min maxing Farms and aswell double money makes you lose alot less what safes alot reset money what you then have ofc for Ranked mode.

Cant wait for 300 rounds on dark castle :) No idea when it’s coming out but that doesn’t matter

9:53 - I like the Time Based ones it's easier to get a middle of the road time for some rewards over 1 tutorial just makes any middle of the road based setup you came up feel worthless when it comes to rewards

I don't have time to grind instas and monkey money, but I just slowly collect it through the bosses (that I suck at) and normal games (that I suck at.)

They should do something like the race pass for continues on a boss event

@zoteiscool2134

8 ай бұрын

but race passes arent accessible at all from playing alone, you get one every 50 days and thats it

@benjaminnilslin9522

8 ай бұрын

you can still buy them for real money btw@@zoteiscool2134

What about the cloud save trick? Well it doesnt give you the xp, but the mm and leaderboard standings still are there....

Good take!

Pay2win doesn't mean you don't have to pay, but rather that you get a significant advantage by paying.

I have 170K monkey money and i don't even use them unless there is a new hero or a skin

I think that ninja kiwi should make you able to play all the 3 modes every week,and so have 3 leaderboards (other than the respective multiplayer ones) every week,this would be a little fix to this problem

I want it to be that once you reset to a checkpoint you have bought that checkpoint and can reset there as many times as you want for free. I wouldn't mind even increasing the cost, in that case.

@benjaminnilslin9522

8 ай бұрын

this, but still having the choice to just do 1 retry is needed too,

I can also say, from a teen's perspective, what you said. First, I still do my homework And have enough time to be a ridiculously good player in like 10 games, idk how. But you're right in the sense that we won't spend our money on games, most spend it on whatever and others (like me) don't spend it at all. I have spent about $500 MXN (about $30) in total ever on videogames, of wich $20 (like $1.3) was on buying Bloons, never bought a single thing in the game, and many people I know are in a very similar position. Still, I have over 100k monkey money, and don't usually burn through it, but I have seen multiple times I stack to 120k and after doing an event once in a while (I don't play as much Bloons anymore) go back to bellow 100k. Still, NK is too generous, the game itself is on 80% sale like half of the time, and it is insanely not pay to win, except ranked bosses, as the video says, wich is precisely the place people aren't going to leave for, as almost no casuals are in the competition, but it is sure really annoying.

I bought the game, and ive bought monkey money once doing races, along with buying a race pass after realizing they exist. I also bought the map editor pass since i didnt have the monkey money and i dont mind supporting NK. All in all, none of it was required, and i think total it was like 15-20$

A simple macros can get you like 5-10k per night, takes about half an hour to set up once and you can use it any time. If you spend more time and write a proper bot with OCR (I've done it for a different game) you can make it play the game for you and farm anything you want. Honestly the macros is so easy to set up it's worth your time.

I just... don't play ranked bosses. Why would I have to when challenge editor and monkey teams exist? Btw, if you set moab hp to 2x2000% and speeds to 286% you get a round 203+ with stats of round 601+. How far can you get on easy without powers in that setting?

the only thing i ever bought were some Tier 5 Instas packs Why? Simple. Collection.

So true, King! (I do not play BTD6)

It's not necessarily pay2win, but at the same time if you're vying for a leaderboard spot you are at a massive disadvantage by not paying, which sucks.

this reminds me of the game i've gotten into recently, cookie run kingdom. just like btd6, love it, love the story, love the variety of things to choose from, but as a fairly new to the game f2p that's also trying to get up in their competitive arena, i've kind of noticed that the game is insanely p2w. all top players are whales. a certain stage essentially had a gargantuan paywall behind it (nigh impossible to beat generally and impossible unless you spend exorbitant amounts on the game) until the devs finally nerfed it a few days ago after many months. and i've only dealt with this for a bit over a month and a half. i have friends who've been trying to overcome the power gap for nearly 3 years. don't -do drugs- pay to win

Time Based-Events would be more fun if my phone didn't crash, but overall it makes you a better player. The least cash is cool if the same strats were not used the same. Time is all about your strategy. The other game modes is like strat copying.

Double Cash Mode used to really offend my sensibilities, personally

i attempted a decent score on a boss run and gave up after spending over 20k monkey money (earned not bought)..... i did kinda cheese it though...... loaded last save to recoup it all and delete the attempt ...

I never buy monkey money and the monkey money system with retrys is probably one of the only things I actively dislike about this game, especially with bosses. In my opinion, a save should be made after you beat each boss tier, and it should let you go back to that round for free at the very least.

@UnofficialGMHikaruClips

8 ай бұрын

There is a thing called the "home" button. It saves your progress every round and can save a lot of monkey money.

5:12 bro exposed every gamer ever

The only thing I bought was double money bc of half cash mode XD

I just want to beat the bosses. Sure as hell don’t spend any real money for a few continues to rethink my strat

5:18 ah shit, he knows

@Nayshad

8 ай бұрын

where the Skyblock videos at mf

this game is so easy that there is absolutely 0 reason to ever *need* to buy monkey money, dont have the time to grind out a black border? its a tower defense game, have it on in the background while you do other shit. after round 10 the game basically plays itself

@ShinyTillDawn

8 ай бұрын

unless you're in chimps

Me watching this video with my unused 1.1mil MM..

As a teen i can confirm that we spend too much money on drugs that we dont have any left for monkey money, its sad really.

@MackanRules

8 ай бұрын

D:

It’s not pay to win in the common sense but you could definitely call it pay to win because if you have unlimited money you can not lose

well, it's also kinda p2w when doing races and unlocking knowledge early but besides that, i don't think it's more p2w than that

I'd play ranked time boss if it wasn't for how obnoxious is the penalty I hate it so much

i am not a competitive player when it come to btd6, so i don't really care about ranked boss event, heck, i never do odyssey, contested teritory, or even race. that mean i never buy monkey money anyway, since i only use it to buy hero and skin, so for me, it's not pay-to-win.

when is the lucifer chamber coming out?

i liked the part where he ranted

Yea we need a you csn retrie for free like in chelenge editor i mean buying the continue whith mm you get extra cash which makes your strategy useles. I can win thet freking round i just didnt pay atention or couldnt press the abbility button on my phone bc of my fat fingers (or i wanted to be too greedy).

Currently have 37k haven’t spent a dime.

I think reseting to last round and to last save should be the same amount of Monkey Money

yes because the game costs money and if you do not pay you do not win, ergo paying = winning but what most people don't tell you is this also means that if you buy multiple copies of the game you can win even FASTER

This is why I play netflix version

I gave up on playing bloons because I just wanted to do events (especially Races) but waiting for free race tokens was fucking dumb so I dropped the game. I want to aproach BTD6 as a sort of optimization sandbox, but it's such an insane timesink since runs aren't exactly fast to crank out and experimenting means throwing runs for the sake of learning, and I don't want to spend 29478383 hours figuring out chimps runs for all the maps. It gets worse for events like races since I just want to do the fucking races but I'll need to spend money to get passes so I can actually PLAY THEM PROPERLY And I REFUSE to cough up a single cent more for BTD6, I game I bought with my own money already, so i just dropped the game outright. Fuck em.

Daymn my store is too cheap, if ur in turkey/Argentina the store is like 200x cheaper

600 hours and all Heroes all Mk all skins and 65 k monkey money

I used a save scumming to get infinite Monkey Money and my account got flagged for it about two weeks ago. Its still flagged.

I had the exactly same rant, but on the CT gamemode. CT, especially least cash/tier tiles, requires the player to grind for the very best score. This, however, means you are gonna retry a lot just to test the strats. Yes you can backout and retry from checkpoints, but it becomes really time consuming this way (imagine you had a 79 rounds tile and r76/78 is really tight). I once spent nearly 100k mm on a single tile. This is just discouraging.

I have 2.3K banana farmers and 100K left over cash. no money spent we up

@josephrogers3666

8 ай бұрын

Do u sleep?

I cant buy anything because I play btd6 netflix and in btd6 netflix theres no store.

This obviously isn't an unavoidable issue, I can pretty consistently get top 50 with only having to spend MM a few times at most per run, sure, I could see needing to spend alot if you wanted to get top 10 or especially top 3, but since only so many people can get a top leaderboard spot, it makes it a pretty small issue. So, since not so many people spend MM to the point of needing to buy it, it wouldn't provide much money to NK, right? Well, you're solution is cutting the prices in half, but there a lots of people who retry bosses with MM, just not many that spend thousands, or tens of thousands. So your solution actually affects lots of people, for good, for the people, not for Ninja Kiwi. Although it's probably a pretty small percentage of income, they also likely make a lot of money, so 2 or 3 percent could be a lot, which would be a good tradeoff, well, if there was another side to the tradeoff... What does NK get in return? Their smallest portion of players (competitive), which only the top tier of the competitive community face, no longer have to spend as much money, as well as the entire casual community, although it's not really an issue for them. Yeah, ok. In my opinion, this an unrealistic take, kinda selfish, and doesn't take Ninja Kiwi into consideration nearly enough. Side note: Those small MM purchase options are there to make the big ones look more attractive

Видос топ а интро бомба. Удачи а я пошёл

Absolutely is

As someone who has 60,000 monkey money and has only bought double cash cause half cash pisses me off, I don’t think the game is that p2w.

well to the argument "what if i want to test a new start" its rather simple, alt account + mods (just do the unracked elite/normal if you do this). I'm pretty sure they let you do unracked bosses with mods so could you not just simply make an alt account and run some inf monkey money mod (doesn't necessarily have to be that but you get the idea i hope). like for example i like to play chimps alot and I'm sure as hell not going to try a "new strat" in in actual game, so i go into challenge editor. yes i know its not modding but what im saying is there is a solution that is simply "don't go into the ranked game first". sorry if i sound mean, just this rant justto me seems eh

@MackanRules

8 ай бұрын

Nono you don't sound mean, it's okay to disagree :) I would definitely say that if you need to use mods/alt accounts for something as simple as testing strats to compete in a boss event then that is setting a barrier to entry that is way above what it should be, especially for a game like this :p

@SirCleaved

8 ай бұрын

@@MackanRules do be fair, as getting said mods can be annoying.

Highest round half cash

I only bought 2x cash, and nothing else lol

I have a idea, pay a programmer to make a bot that can auto farm monkey money.

well i mean youre technically paying for the game to win on it

I have 90,000 monkey money, never bought any. If I wanna blow 4-5k on a boss, I don’t consider that being pay-to-win

9:13 xd

It makes sense for BTD6 not to be that much of a P2W game as it is already a paid game

You say that not only are you primarily incentivized to pay because of your role as a content creator, but also that thanks to being a content creator paying isn’t as much of a burden for you compared to regular players. So no, it’s not Pay to Win. When asking if something is pay to win the question is “Can an inexperienced/bad player with an infinite credit card match or outperform a top level player?” In BTD6 the answer to that question is a firm and objective no.

@copenwiththestress3732

8 ай бұрын

That is sure as shit no what p2w means, p2w is paying for anything that gives an advantage. If you could load up CSGO and make a purchase that makes my guns instakill I wouldnt suddenly be able to beat the best people in the world but I'd still absolutely steamroll anyone of a similar skill level or even quite above my skill level and it would be insanely p2w.

@alberqueaq6939

8 ай бұрын

@@copenwiththestress3732 “That’s not what pay to win means, this is:” and then you give an example that is exactly what I mean. Everything is relative my guy, the skill gap in a shooter is not the same as in a Tower Defense Game. Use your brain and apply context. And it doesn’t matter anyways. Infinite retries in BTD6 sounds good on paper but is a pretty mediocre advantage in practice. It’s not uncommon to have a “bricked save” where no amount of retries will save you. That’s not losing against other players, that’s being unable to win in any capacity and having to restart. Calling that Pay to Win is an absolute joke.

Just do the bosses with out rank that's what I do

I thought Sweden used its own currency

only thing ive bought is 2x cash

My opinion on the subject is that no, its not pay to win, seeing hiw you can alt f4 to reset to last round and if your doing chimps/ranked/ct powers and such dont matter

Yes you should buy monkey money because if you want more updates then give them money no money no updates

I got 200k money and dont know how to use it

races been around for a while my guy- they make money from the competitive area

Couldn't you make the mid tiers of some of these bosses easier for yourself though? If you know you are going to need things like more shinobis or Glue Storm later, why not just buy them for the earlier tiers as well if you have the money on hand? Obviously this doesn't solve the root issue but I feel like prebuying things would just make the mid tiers a lot easier for yourself

@benjaminnilslin9522

8 ай бұрын

what if you don't have the money (looking at least tiers)?

cheat engine gaming

i bought double cash

Just don't lose

Me who’s never done a boss event since they where added

@jojojoestar4720

8 ай бұрын

I have already done It a few times but on my Lost account, now im grinding all upgrades to do bosses

or maybe just double the amount you get when purchasing.

Hold up man he’s British