Thanks for being the voice of reason. Old BetaFPV frames have slight bumps on the edges of hoops, at least use those if you wanna build an inverted whoop.

I went ahead and ordered a frame and am going to try this with one. Of my f3 boards and 19000kv motors. I'm just doing it for something different though lol. The other thing about it is you lose the weight of the canopy, so it's much lighter. You also mount the battery on top and sideways, and so those things kinda change how it flies. Probably not anything amazing, but I love trying different things lol. Also, you may want to run some of the older classic 31mm props as I feel they may be less prone to getting caught on something compared to the gemfans.

@NickBurnsFPV

4 жыл бұрын

Sure, try it, I am not against new fun quad hacks.

@TheXanUser

4 жыл бұрын

you can opt to not use a canopy with a traditional whoop. and put the pack on top as well if you want. I can see only downsides to upside down whoops. But experimenting is part of the fun!

Always fun, always informative. Thank you Nick.

Good message, great delivery. Keep up the great content we enjoy it, thanks

Nick keepin us happy!...Go Nick!

Any time im looking at changing something on one of my quads I look back through your videos and find great information that will help me decide if its a good idea or not and the risks involved. Thanks Nick 👍👍

Thanks man to inform us the honesty of your statement off this hobby keep it up cheers 🍻

Great advise Nick. 👍👍👍👍

Good advice. I was tempted to build one but thought better of it, then I realized, I already had a Tiny Hawk...lol

I didn't flight inverted but i almost burn the mob7 esc flying it without the canopy in LoS, i went too close to the ceiling and it got sucked up like a vacum cleaner! I don't think there will be so much difference between the 2 mode on a whoop as the surface of the motor mounts is really thin and the thrust is insane.

thanks for the knowledge

Good idea

Totaly agreed Nick 👊

I agree I have an emax it really is sketchy squire well informed again no nonsense fantastic nick pal

I burnt esc on my tinyhawk before. Good video as always Nick.

Hey Nick. I have been experimenting with different builds both pusher and traditional. The best flight experience I've had 1S is the TH2 frame (without camera mount on top) the THS camera and board and the 08 025 16500KV Emax motors. The centre of gravity is unreal and the weight is a couple grams lighter than the THS stock. It really is different than anything in the corners as it holds it's nose so well you lose minimal speed in transitions. A great plus is turtle mode works nearly every time without that rocket boy camera mount.

Nick have you actually tried flying a few hundred packs on an inverted whoop? So this video is just a theory, right? Not any actual evidence of burned ESCs? Just wondering if anyone has actually tested this theory to verify it?

@NickBurnsFPV

4 жыл бұрын

It is theory, but I have seen hundreds of comments on burned motors and esc with traditional micro quads, when I ask about the last flight occurrence, its often in a turtle mode situation or taking off from the ground outside. I myself have burned a motor and 2 esc with obstructed props. Put the props in more direct position to be obstructed the chance will surely go up.

Ran out of the stock tinyhawk props and put some tri blade gemfan 1635 props upside down on it and while it looks crazy it flies insanely good.

Hi Nick, I do have a Crazybee F4 with a burnt out ESC. Is there any way I can connect the FC to an external 4in1 ESC ? Thanks !

@NickBurnsFPV

4 жыл бұрын

I am sure there is a way, just not one I have looked into. Typically we replace the board.

Albert Kim got some videos out on inverting whoops...

Be sure to but some foam pad on the bottom of your pusher whoop to protect the FC and also lift the quad up off the ground

@NickBurnsFPV

4 жыл бұрын

That's a good tip.

Ive never used turtle mode for that same reason. I also have a lot of iron in my soil, so keeping the motors away from dirt is key. The single best thing you can do to improve a whoops performance is to clip off the ducts. (which means its not a whoop anymore of course) I have noticed many pilots are not good about disarming quickly. combine that with upside build, and stuff will burn.

you have a consistent flying style though. i think many of us use it to help understand the performance. and to help judge if risk is worth trying.

I hadn't considered the risks you mention. Perhaps I'll use a brushed whoop for inverting.

@TheXanUser

4 жыл бұрын

same risks with brushed. stall a motor, and you blow a mosfet.

Gday Nick, mate i wouldn't build one upside down cause if I did it would end up the right way up!! here down under lol, good on you mate.👍🛸

Hi Nick, I don't know much about the hobby as I've just started. So what I understood is that the problem with upside down motors is purely geometrical. But does it affect on the motor performance or stability? And what about upside down 5/6 inch quads?

@NickBurnsFPV

4 жыл бұрын

My primary point is when the prop is low the risk the prop can't spin freely can result in damaged motors or esc. Pusher isn't very popular, I suspect it doesn't fly all that different or the difference is negative.

Thanks for the info! I do have one question, and that is: how does flying inverted increase the risk of esc burnout?

@FilipRadelic

4 жыл бұрын

Props more likely to get stuck. With regular configuration if you land upside down in grass or something where your props could be stuck, it's always better to walk if you can because when ESC tries to spin a motor and it doesn't move, that energy all goes to heat. This configuration might give you a false sense of "oh I'm right side up I'm fine for takeoff" and then boom. Also you might be hitting your AIO board with stuff like rocks etc. I've had SMD components knocked off of things even with more protection than some people use on the bottom of their FCs in this configuration.

@lrfpv5292

4 жыл бұрын

@@FilipRadelic OK, I got what you said. However, now, I do not see any reason to even run the pusher configuration. Is the only upside to this the theoretical thrust increase due to the absence of prop guard supports? What was that rational behind this in the first place, as in, what additional benefits do running pusher give?

@NickBurnsFPV

4 жыл бұрын

@LRFPV The theory I have heard is pusher should be more efficient. Not sure in ducts it works out. If the ducts right side up have any positive impact, the inverse sure won't. It also has the ability to bring the components/weight closer to the prop line and can have a more balanced feel as well as low profile if the camera is mounted down between the front two ducts.

@Quad66

4 жыл бұрын

Nick Burns Until we get pusher frames we are finding it is less efficient because of the duct effect being reversed. The current benefit like you said is that slammed profile with the camera tucked down between the motors and different (though not necessarily better) handling characteristics. I built one up as a concept build to show Patrick Clarke on the PMB FB after I saw a build by SpeziLover on rcgroups. Kim picked it up off FB and ran with it without fully conveying the concept status of the mod.

@NickBurnsFPV

4 жыл бұрын

@@Quad66 Ah, very good to get the history of the origins. I have seen a few statements that some ducts have a positive thrust impact other ducts not so much or not at all. I do know PJC really wanted a 65mm pusher, maybe he still does. I did see Albert's thumbnails, and the FB images. I really thought it was a bad idea for the masses, too many use airmode and don't disarm quickly. Really a recipe for damage. I do like the low profile whoops, but also like to see the ducts :) With YT view minutes being about 5mins, I thought it best to keep it as short as I could. I do also love how the fpv community has so many creatives that see alternatives to the traditional thinking. Thank you for enlightening, and providing additional information. Thank you.

Especially with the current situation, getting a new board will probably be even more of a challenge, due to lower stock levels, and the delivery being slower, or even failing totally. So caution when doing modifications, and possibly end up not being able to fly at all, is a smart strategy imho.

Thanks for the tips, Nick! 😊 Stay safe with your family! 🖖😊

Awesome sir:'(

I totally agree with you Nick 😁 👍

👍

Thanks 4 not telling us what to do!!! Love what you do brother!!! And yes this hobby is so much fun!!! Hope you and your family are well and safe!!!! And i still want a Tiny Hawk!!

Nick stop standing in the way of us burning up our esc’s lol. I’ve been wanting to know what the benefit of inverted whoops for awhile .

I don't think burning ESCs is the primary risk. Definitely prop design plays a factor as some props weren't designed to be used as pushers (some don't even have through holes), and frame design because the ducts are designed to sit at a very particular height relative to the... props. Ultimately the tradeoff will be less efficiency for less prop wash noise.

Hello :)

🤩🤩🤩🤩🧐

if its worth it do it .. all a learning curve

Every time you get your drone or a whoop in the air that is a risk a break-in or flying into somebody or something else, so it's everybody's individual choice and that's what we love about this hobby, living on the edge. 🤪

A weed? hahaha! Good one. Maybe and thats why standard quads in anysize. majority of it are motors not motors down?

As grandma always use to say, with great risk comes great children, and a little bit of gin does not hurt either.

@NickBurnsFPV

4 жыл бұрын

gin played a role in the children creating?

Stop telling me what to do... ohwww wait ;) More importantly: why do I not have that Beta cap :@ :P

So what are they saying the benefit is, yes there is nothing blocking the air but would the change even be noticeable? I can't see where inverting it would make you go from a Ford Pinto to a Lamborghini. This sounds more like "Paint a red stripe down the side and it will go faster." type of thinking.

@Quad66

4 жыл бұрын

Thump2010 The biggest benefit is the camera can sit down low tucked between the motors. It greatly reduced the height of the quad making vertically tight gaps much easier to get through. The other benefits are more theoretical and TBD if they are real world meaningful.

@TheXanUser

4 жыл бұрын

@@Quad66 but you can do that with a right side up whoop. I did it 3+ years ago. low cam is not something that is exclusive to upside down whoops. I never understood why tall pods became so prevalent in the first place. this hobby sure does tend to bounce back and fourth in cycles.

@Quad66

4 жыл бұрын

TheXanUser totally does. pushing the cam that far forward feels a little funny to me as it changes the perspective compared to the center of rotation for yaw. It goes away after adjusting but bouncing back and forth takes some adjustment. Weren’t there a couple frames with dedicated front mounts ?

Nick u are the number one

First

Third

Not for me, carpeting...👍🏻🍻👊🏻

Inverted frame aren't any good for efficiency, lift produced by an airfoil, hence a prop, comes 80% from the extrados, top of the propeller, so you want a clean airflow on the top, not at the bottom. To say it differently, à propeller sucks the drone up/forward, it doesn't push it. That's the reason why propellers on aircraft are at front, and not the back... The reason for inverted frames is handling quality : your center of gravity being above the propellers, your drone becomes naturally unstable, hence more manœuvrable.

Well said ! too avoid newcomers wasting their money on burning their pretty whoop :)