At last! I've found a video about patch bays that is presented in an educational style. I've watched numerous YT content creators talking about their patchbays and offering advice, but I felt a bit unsatisfied. Turns out I really needed the diagrams, photos and bullet points. The wiring diagrams of normalling modes alone were worth the watch. Thank you so much!

Having no previous knowledge of patchbays, I now feel confident working with one after watching this tutorial! Thank you.

thanks for this video - the best ive been able to find so far honestly illustration combined with clear narrative = win

Super helpful. Thanks for all the tips and details on the mechanics of normaling. Cheers

Very very good explanation... Thank you for keeping this video up and taking the time to pass on your knowledge.. Great job bro!!

Would have saved me a lot of time, if I found your video sooner. Fantastic lesson. 🎉 Thank you.

Thank you very much for this very useful intro to patchbay :)

VERY GOOD !!! CONGRATULATIONS !!!

This was exteremely helpful, thank you sir!

wow men you are a GREAT teacher, thanks alot

Excellent point about using only XLR patches for mics. Thanks!

Really, really, really great video, I loved this video it was very informative, please make more videos if you get time ! That is my comment. Thanks !

Very useful, learnt good valuable things. And that being already experienced.

Great video. I have certainly learned a few things so thank you for taking the time to make this. There are a couple of minor things which I believe need to be corrected from an audio point of view. 1:30 Instrument plugs are not TRS (Tip Ring Sleeve). They are usually TS (Tip Sleeve). TRS are balanced cables whereas TS cables are unbalanced and therefore can pick up interference because they do not have common mode rejection. There is an extra wire inside a TRS cable. You are right about the sends being above the returns, however from other videos I have seen online this generalisation does not apply to all types of input / output. In a studio setting with a mixing console for example, you would have the inputs of the console normalled to the outputs of the console in the row below. This is so that the input signal flows directly to the output without the need for a patch cable unless normal is broken with a patch cable (or set up in a half-normalled configuration).

As a person that started recording in DAW-s only this is mindblowingly complex. :D

Thank you for making this video. Most other videos make a mess of this topic. And, many even are telling folks to route mics, and potentially 48V phantom power to TRS patches, just like you warned against.

@MELOPSMUSIC

2 жыл бұрын

But is it possible to do this ? Connect xlr from condenser mic to a simple xlr patchbay then go from xlr out to trs patchbay (with xlr trs connector) and then i route from the trs patchbay to input of my preamp (who has phantom power) with trs xlr cable , and then to my audio interface ? Thanks ! 😀

@kevinlentz7604

4 ай бұрын

Just don’t do any patching with 48 volt on turn it off and you will be fine❤

I should know some of this ,,, as long as I've been doing it ... Get that slot in my rack ,,, with all the cords hanging out ... Fix the foot trip zone floor ... Well done ... 4 me 2 get it ...

Thank you PHY350 for a great and informative Video!! Kindly help me understand the mic inputs scenario. I am setting up a hybrid mixing system and would love to have the mic line inputs from the live room available on the patch bay normalled to the inputs of my console, to give me flexibility to use a separate mic pre occasionally instead of the consoles pre amps. I had earlier researched and found most studios with large consoles use a similar set up of having mic line inputs available on their patch bay using the TRS, TT, or military grade bantam cable connections. You however discourage this. My question is how do they get to use this set up and not destroy their +48 phantom powered Mics? Thank you.

@phy350

6 жыл бұрын

You can do this (TST/TT/MT with mics) if you make sure to turn off the phantom power source (and give it plenty of time to discharge completely) before inserting/removing patch cords. Otherwise I recommend using an XLR patch panel to eliminate any possible shorts between conductors when connecting/removing cables. Yeah they're much bigger and less convenient, but it eliminates the chance for error. Guess it all depends on where you work and who's operating. I'm used to working with less experienced folks so I tend to gravitate to the fool-proof methods!

i think there are exceptions that should be discussed - great video though and kudos to you - when you take insert points and normal them to the patchbay - you are then adding extra points for the introduction of noise into your signal chain - you're basically raising the noise floor when you do that - maybe best is to wire the bay for inserts - but keep them unplugged from your console until you actually need them ...? just a thought - I think it's important to discuss or think about how noise is introduced by patchbays

@phy350

6 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the complements! Here's my opinion: since a patchbay is simply an extension of the console wiring, not passing through any electronics, the only added noise is that which is induced into the signal carrying conductors of that wiring. So of course if you have long runs of unbalanced cable, you may get more noise. And most patchbays are installed right next to a console anyway. But the whole point of a patchbay is to make workflow easier and simpler, so unplugging from your console until you need it sort of defeats the whole purpose of a patchbay in the first place. Just my $0.02.

@antigen4

6 жыл бұрын

i was just thinking that going through the extra contact points is effectively like going through a small value capacitor and resistor - something that can have a tangible effect on the signal - even if minor ... so i was thinking it might be an issue of 'best practices' - though yes - i agree - in most cases the flexibility trumps any minor gains in sound quality

Hi Thanks for the explanation. How would i set up a Sidechain ? I have two types of Compressor one has an Insert type (dbx 266xs) Sidechain input and a (Furman LC-6 ) which has an IN & OUT Jack for each Sidechain. From your Video would the Insert one use Normal? Not got a clue about the other one. It states that the dbx one if a jack is inserted it breaks the connection from the INPUT jack to the 266xs detection circuit. So if it was Normal it would complete the circuit until i send a signal through the patchbay input? Does that sound about right? Any help would be appreciated :)

what if you have MULTIPLE mastering recorders (as I do) - a few tape decks and digital

Thanks for sharing PHY350, this is invaluable information. I have a Behringer X32 Producer as my mixer. Are you familiar with the features? I am wondering if a digital mixer like mine with the ability to record 32 tracks and 2 tracks through it’s own USB cable, can be optimized using a patchbay (i.e., Black Lion PBR-8) with it for tracking, mixing and mastering. My main DAW is Presonus Studio One 4.5 and I want to run a Hybrid set up using 500 series and other rack mounted gear.

@phy350

4 жыл бұрын

As the saying goes, "it depends"! The patchbay will only be useful for analog interconnections, so if you're patching in 500-series modules and such through the X32's analog I/O, then yes, a patchbay can certainly make your life easier. BUT.. if the X32 is like most digital consoles, the I/O isn't "fixed", so you can change it programmatically (presets, etc. within the console itself). So you could instead leverage the internal routing of the X32 to make the "patches" for you. I guess it depends on how cumbersome it is to do that, and which patching/workflow method you prefer...

awesome video. I have a few questions if I may, one is you mention not to use a TRS patchbay for Mic inputs. I have a stage snake that I have pluged into my console then the direct outs back to the top of the patchbay. actually I'am trying to set up a split console. what I have is a Mackie SR40-8-2 . and 2 Behringer PX3000 patchbays and a 2 channel compressor 2 pre Amps a Reverb unit and 2 EQ's could you possably help me by offering how to set my gear up. I would appreciate it.

@phy350

7 жыл бұрын

If you're just using your direct outputs from the main console, then you're OK. The reason to not use TRS with mic signals is due to the phantom power (potentially) shorting out when you insert or remove the plug. So, using a direct out from a console (which is line level, no phantom power) with TRS is perfectly fine.

@adamphillips6747

2 жыл бұрын

If your patch bay is Balanced you can use Phantom. You just have to use common sense and turn Phantom on and off before and after using the mic.

Pls show walk thru one by one connection to each units going to main mixer. Or step by step connection in plain view.

Quick question about MULTS - consumer level patchbays often allow normal/half/thru options (e.g. the Samson S-Patch) but I'm trying to figure out how I could set up a mult on one of these. Is it possible, or can it only be done by opening the case and getting out a soldering iron? :)

@phy350

2 жыл бұрын

With a soldering iron and the right skills, anything is possible! Seriously though, with the S-Patch, you could do some creative external wiring with some jack fields in THRU mode. THRU mode is their way of saying "no normalling". So, you can make your own mult by connecting together all the rear jacks of the patch points you want to use together as a mult (typically not more than 4: any one as an input, up to 3 as outputs). Sort of like a big Y cable (W cable in this case?) with all T's, R's, and S's of each 1/4" TRS cable wired together in parallel. Hope that makes sense! If I could draw a diagram here in the comments it'd be easier to describe.

@macronencer

2 жыл бұрын

@@phy350 Aha! Yes, that does make sense. No diagram required. Thank you :)

thanks for this - just dealing with normalling for my own studio setup for the first time ever - it SEEMS TO ME that HALF-NORMALS are the optimal and most flexible way to go in all cases. Am I wrong? This way outputs get automatically 'multed' (if needed) and you won't have to worry about problems with input jacks since they will break the normal connection when plugging into them (lessening the fear of blowing something up by connecting two output stages across the connection .... any thoughts/confirmations?

@phy350

6 жыл бұрын

Sounds like you're actually describing a fully-normalled situation? In half-normalled, the output (top) jackfield stays connected to bottom jackfield (input) regardless of whether or not there's a patch cord plugged into the top row. When fully-normalled, plugging in a patch cord into the top row will break the connection between top and bottom. So a half-normalled configuration will allow you to make a virtual Y cable. In both full and half configurations, plugging something into the bottom (input) row will ALWAYS break the connection with the jackfield above it, as you can never jam two outputs into a single input. You can, of course, take one output to multiple inputs (thus the flexibility of half normalling). I always say the configuration is up to you, the user: do what works best for your workflow...

@antigen4

6 жыл бұрын

yes - your 'virutal Y-cable' is what i meant when i was referring to 'mutled' (as in MULT or 'multiple output' - a common patchbay term). So that's why i was thinking that a half normalled patchbay connection might be the most useful ...

@antigen4

6 жыл бұрын

i think a lot of the problem is that most engineers even - don't KNOW what their workflow will be - esp. once new equipment is added ... so - to my mind - it's best to set up for optimum flexibility

@phy350

6 жыл бұрын

Ahhh, my bad, I read “multed ” as “MUTED” thus my misunderstanding!

You could probably set up a de-esser with your patch bay.

Can you explain Thru patchbay for me please

what about Mult’s... are they just splitting A single signal to multiple

@phy350

4 жыл бұрын

Yep, that's it.. just a group of jackfields that are wired in parallel. For example, if you see 4 points on a patchbay that are labeled "mult" and are grouped right next to each other, it's safe to assume they're not normalled in any way but rather custom wired in parallel (since that's the accepted studio definition of a mult jackpoint). In this example group of 4 points, one is the source (output from a device) and the other 3 can go to the inputs of other devices. You can usually split a line-level source signal this way up to 2-3 destinations without affecting it too much. Any more than that and I'd recommend a distribution amplifier.

@freshconnekt

4 жыл бұрын

PHY350 Alright, what would you recommend as patchbays.. I do not have much experience..

@phy350

4 жыл бұрын

@@freshconnekt Depends a lot on your studio setup and use case; I recommend talking with a vendor such as Whirlwind (they custom build any kind of patchbay) or Sweetwater, as they sell pre-built patchbays.. they can both discuss your needs and help you find the best fit.

De-Esser needed on audio

Absolutely nothing wrong with using TRS, TT or military when using phantom power, the shorting point is invalid if the connection is made prior to energizing Too many experts, give their opinions, ignore the science, physics To say “never” implies a great deal but Hot cold ground for each, and every type of input you have mentioned Are capable of routing 48 V I would agree as a matter of choice in the live room, snakes, and wall inserts are XLR Tight, locked and logical That snake feed to the control room can and will work with any of the 3 contact point systems you mentioned I run live room xlr snaked to a DB25 TT to the rear of my trs patch bays without incident The argument I’m met with is “But” But you might make a energizing mistake and fry a ribbon mic But a newbie might, ect.. Good practice? Debatable, and completely revolving around the worry of human error With proper labeling and handling any are suitable An xlr does not guarantee you won’t fry a component when energizing anything that can’t take the zap, you could engage power with a mouse click or physical button if human error is the concern Remember the computer driving your trs,TT or military connectivity and when to energize for 48 v phantom is the same computer we each use daily for every act and decision from driving to telling your wife how she really looks in that 30 year old bikini, that may end in tragedy Your brain

Correct way to get balanced signal ,from inserts to a patchbay? Oui,all my insert cables,snakes (72 channels of em) are traditional TRSx2 TS, but 75% of my outboard gear is balanced I/O,double oui. So for 25% of my unbal gear should send /return be in unbal patchbay,all 9 PB's of mine are all balanced,or start buying TRSx2Trs insert cables.lol. (do they make them) Just found a way to solder TS ends to PB,but different for return/send,can anyone send any links to help me make sense of this issue. I can solder like crazy,and just donno exactly what is best. I imagine theres dif situations,but really need to find a good source of info. Gonna try Gearsluts,or SOS. At this point id buy any e-book,or hardcopy if so. Oui,what a passion we all have for the most smallest advantage on recording,thx for reading my craze,-COR

@phy350

2 жыл бұрын

It's actually very common to mix/match TS/TRS (unbalanced/balanced) connections on a patchbay. All single-point insert jacks (those that require the Y cable to break out the send/return) are inherently unbalanced. That's OK, as long as you keep the lengths as short as possible (preferably under 20') and avoid running them near power cords or other high-level sources of EMI/RFI. SOME balanced gear may not like the negative and shield shorted together when taking a balanced output to an unbalanced input (TRS to TS), but as always... "read the manual". In most cases the worst that happens is you lose 6dB going from balanced to unbalanced. Yes, it's more complicated than this but this is my short answer. :)

One of the best doku of patchbay use. But even a pro like you makes amateur-errors un nit using an de-esser....

My pet hate that I drum right out of my trainees on their first day at work is when they use the word 'Cord'. It's a fkn CABLE! A 'cord' is a curtain string. 😉😁😄

@karlcarlsburg9641

2 жыл бұрын

All you’re actually doing is informing your trainees that you’re misinformed and stubborn. Definition of cord (3rd use case): a small flexible insulated electrical cable having a plug at one or both ends used to connect a lamp or other appliance with a receptacle. Maybe lay off on your trainees in the future 🤡

@karlcarlsburg9641

2 жыл бұрын

Also, the phrase is “pet peeve” not “pet hate”. I don’t think you should be correcting people on their use of English..