Honestly, I was kind of expecting the internals to just be for the LEDs.

@Matthew19002

5 жыл бұрын

The same really, I expected the output to be not connected to anything, but they probably went "we should probably have something for the wires to hook to just so if anyone takes it apart they can't be certain that it's not doing anything.."

@oreubens

5 жыл бұрын

I've seen some of these "electronic descalers" that were just a box with a connector for water in, water out (just a piece of pipe) and for the rest just had a regular building brick inside it to give it some weight.

@SB-vb8ch

5 жыл бұрын

oreubens - Surely it would have been some form of mystically charged brick which had been chosen by someone with a divining rod.....or not.

@uwezimmermann5427

5 жыл бұрын

if it was only for the LEDs you could probably sue the manufacturer in some parts of the world. Here there is at least something connected so that you would have to prove that it doesn't work. And proving the non-existence of something is very, very difficult...

@cooliocrib4409

4 жыл бұрын

How do these companies feel living their whole lives as a lie? Someone should sue them anyway. It's a placebo effect

I use something similar, it's called the Placebo Mark VI and it works great. It works just as good as my unicorn repellent. In all the years I have lived here, I have not seen a single unicorn.

@maicod

5 жыл бұрын

it's cause unicorns are dead scared of Apes ;-)

@wallyman292

5 жыл бұрын

My sister and bro-in-law are fruit farmers. A few of their fruit farming neighbors utilize those hail cannon things. Basically, a compressed gas thingie that produces a loud "bang" every couple of seconds. Supposed to break up hail up in the clouds before they can fall and damage crops. Cost around 10K (US) apiece. What a croc of BS those things are. Gotta wonder why the buyers didn't consider that thunder, which usually happens during hail storms, wouldn't break up the hail a hell of a lot better than those cannons ever could (if they actually worked, which they don't, obviously).

@zahmbiend6575

5 жыл бұрын

+wally man my grandfather uses one of those by his garden, not for hail (we don't get enough rain to even worry about hail most of the time), but to scare rabbits away from his garden. It sounds just like a shotgun, so all of the rabbits run the other way when they hear it. Luckily, he doesn't have any neighbors for miles, so they're not annoyed by the constant explosion sounds. Maybe your sister's neighbors are actually just worried about the birds and other critters eating their fruit.

@MrMartinSchou

5 жыл бұрын

You bastard! I guarantee that unicorn repellent of yours is the reason my garden fairies have all died - everyone knows that unicorns eat garden fairies, you plonker!

@edwardhugus2772

5 жыл бұрын

@@wallyman292 You have it ALL WRONG, Yes, it's called a Hail Cannon, but you wait for it to hail, collect all thus hailstones, load into hail cannon, FIRE cannon at neighbors house! It's a novelty item for amusement purposes. I suppose the constant Bangs just might keep birds away if close enough, I think they tried that in Maine to keep the Canadian geese out of the fields.

The Chase light led display whiffs of late night advertorial marketing quackery.

@bigclivedotcom

5 жыл бұрын

A lightshow is essential for stuff like this.

@deltib

5 жыл бұрын

@@bigclivedotcom Cylons are compelling purchasing motivators.

@leisergeist

5 жыл бұрын

Who wouldn't want KITT solving their pipe scale issues! -marketing

@hixxie7848

5 жыл бұрын

How funny, that's one of my employers product. I was the technical advisor for that device. We used big electro magnets in commercial water treatment.

@Mark1024MAK

5 жыл бұрын

Needs a LED display that sweeps back AND forth for KITT...

As a test, we installed two of a similar device in two brand new houses in a four house development, all using city provided water. Absolutely No difference. After four years every one of the four test locations had the same corrosion, scale buildup and deterioration. Our test was for the builder because he was sold these. We told him to do the test to confirm what the quack salesman told him.

@bigclivedotcom

5 жыл бұрын

Now that's a proper test.

@herseem

2 жыл бұрын

That is a really good test. I know there are definitely some scammy ones as I bought one that turned out to be fake one one ebay. However, genuine Kemo brand ones definitely do something. In a really hard water area such as where I live, the scale in the glass kettle now crumbles and falls off by itself. It was because of the scale build up before that I bought one for this flat, having bought them and found them to be genuine in other flats. So I wonder about the brand. You can do a water taste test with the Kemo brand ones and it is noticeable. However, most people won't do that, and the time taken for it to show any pipe or heater scaling effect for most people is too long, and it's an ideal market for scammy devices.

Once again, another great teardown, schematic and output capture. I'm 52 years old, can build anything, and still I love watching the way you present your videos. It makes me feel like there are few normal people left on the planet that actually understands how everything works. I've been tearing apart everything I could get my hands on since I was old enough to pick up a screwdriver and it still never gets old. (I don't know why my parents didn't just buy me broken toys to disassemble.) 👍👍👍👍👍

An uncle I visited like 10 years ago had one of these, and it seemed 10+ years old already. He said he was convinced that it was crap, it wasn't worth a damn thing. Still didn't take it down. Because he paid for it, so he was going to squeeze every single bit of LED blinking out of it, even if it didn't do anything else. It's probably still there, blinking away, a memento of man's stupidity.

@vincentrobinette1507

4 жыл бұрын

Who knows? If he sells the house, anything with blinking lights may add perceived value to help close the deal.

@nullpointerworks4036

2 жыл бұрын

Gotta love them LEDs, yo

Many years back we had an instantaneous gas water heater in a very hard water area. British Gas installed a small inline salts unit that prevented the unit scaling up and it only needed changing once every yoear or two. Some time in the nineties they discontinued the support for the scale preventer and said that we could fit a magnetic one, that was all the now supplied. We moved soon after, so no idea how long that kept things scale free. The latest house came fitted with a similar unit to this one shown in the video, but not quite as flashy. The previous occupant was so proud of it, he cut a hole in the pipe boxing so you could watch the LEDs! We still get scale and watermarks....

I was extremely sceptical about the operation of these powered electric water softeners, I still am with regard to those that use an open circuit antenna dipole to couple to the water pipe. However there is some evidence that those that use a coil to magnetically couple to the water in a pipe do work There are a number of university papers which descripe tests that show the effect of high frequency magnetic pulses on hard water. The principle of operation is not to remove hard water ions, such as Ca++ and Mg++, but to change the structure of the salts that precipitate out of the water. Changing them from needle shaped calcite crystals that readily stick to each other and the pipe work to an amorphous form of powder, which will not stick and is washed through the pipe. While the researchers were hard pressed to explain the effect, they did produce some convincing micrographs that showed the different structure of the precipitates between water exposed to a rapidly pulse magnet field and that not exposed. There are a number of industrial users who have installed such systems to keep their water pipes free from scale build up. It is difficult to believe that business would fall for a scam technology that did not produce some money saving results. I remain very sceptical about the operation of the dipole wire devices, as it is difficult to understand how any significant part of the field could penetrate the pipe to interact with the water flowing through it. If the dipoles were subject to excitation close to RF resonance, then one might expect some of the near H field to penetrate the copper pipe, but most of these devices use an audio frequency FM square wave to excite the coil. The best, discharge a significant charge, stored in a capacitor, to maximise the induced magnetic field. You would be doing the world a service if you repeated part of the university research and published it here. This involved passing hard water through a section of pipe, with either the device fitted or not. A sample of the water was then taken and evaporated to dryness on watch glasses in a standard environment. I think a simple comparison would do. The resulting salt precipitate was then observers under a microscope to determine the shape of the salt crystals that formed. In the case of the university study, I recall that X-ray examination was done to identify the shape of the crystals. If I can find a link to the papers involved, I will post them here. I am sure I have a copy in my archive. To be fair, there are a huge number of reports on this subject, many from university engineering and chemistry departments. There appears to be as many claiming that this is pseudoscience as claiming it is a real observable effect. Ref New Scientist 18, February 1988 Lifting the scales from our pipes Magnetic fields change the way crystals form in fluids. This could prevent the formation of scale in pipes and boilers John Donaldson and Sue Grimes In this case the output drive circuit is horrible, not even giving a low impedance, push pull, output to the dipole, but then I suppose that if the circuit is not really doing anything useful, you might as well used the cheapest drive circuit you can reasonable get away with. It would be interesting to put a current search coil inside the pipe and see if any B field can be detected inside the pipe.

@vincentrobinette1507

5 жыл бұрын

I agree. For this circuit to do that, you would need 100,000 times more power to have any of these effects, particularly, if there is significant water flow through the pipe. Even then, I would need to see the test results. With only as much power going into the pipe as what's being used to drive the LED's, I'm a little skeptical. How can 17-20 milliwatts treat 100 gallons of water per hour!?

@AlexWhittemore

4 жыл бұрын

Sounds worthy of an experiment, but it also sounds like just getting a reproducible baseline would be super tricky, never mind figuring out how to reliably detect-or-not an effect.

@mohanvvip

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you, especially for the reference to the New Scientist article.

@marcse7en

3 жыл бұрын

Not so much a COMMENT, but more like an ESSAY! 😂😂😂

@nigeljohnson9820

3 жыл бұрын

@@marcse7en my next comment, maybe the basis for my new book, 101 boring things to say about hard water. I will dedicate it to insomniacs everywhere.

It probably functions better as a VLF radio jammer than a pipe descaler.

@LynxSnowCat

5 жыл бұрын

This is my thought too. Probably created an extremely radio-noisy version that blasted enough power into the pipe to do something, mechanically, but it enraged every single radio user. Eventually the power got dialed back until we got this seemingly useless thing.

@railgap

2 жыл бұрын

best comment yet ;)

I can't imagine how this could work. Limescale is caused by calcium salts, especially calcium carbonate and bicarbonate, precipitating out when the water is heated. See the Wikipedia article for how this happens. Preventing this would have to mean either removing the calcium ions or stopping them from precipitating in hot water. In the case of a water-softener, the calcium ions really are removed by an ion-exchange medium which replaces them with something less likely to cause trouble. The calcium goes into the water-softener and doesn't come out. If these coils were stopping the calcium from getting past, you would expect limescale to form where it is wrapped around the pipe! On the other hand, as far as I can see there is no way for the coils to influence the calcium ions not to precipitate out when the water is heated elsewhere. That would be magic.

@bigclivedotcom

5 жыл бұрын

The claim is that the calcium still goes past, but gets "changed" by the electrical pulses or magnet and is less likely to bond to the pipe.

@jovangrbic97

5 жыл бұрын

@@bigclivedotcom changed fucking how? There is no way known to man to induce chemical changes of ions merely by the presence of an electrical field. Once again, total BS. Any claim made must be immediately followed by an argument naming a physical phenomenon that would result in the claimed effect. Any statement lacking said argument is to be held false without exception!

@TheEmbeddedHobbyist

5 жыл бұрын

I don't know how they work. But I had a lot of research data on this about 35 years ago. But it was using coils to surround the pipe with a magnetic field. The data showed that calcium would precipitate out of solution and form a lump. This allowed the deposits on the pipe to go back in to the water as the water does not like to be in that state. Drinking distilled water could kill you over a period of time, as water does again not like to be in that state. It will absorbed salts from you in order to get back to a stable state. Spent 4 years working on a blood gas analyzer with blood on chip, and learnt a lot about blood make up and distilled water etc. As Clive said the main way of see it working was trapped calcium in the kettle, but lose on the bottom not stuck on the walls. The research was done by a relative but did not go on to market, as back in the old days unlike today if you could not prove how your design worked you had to stop due to lack of backers. Things then got so cheap you could make any old crap to sell.

@mehashi

5 жыл бұрын

Smells like horse poop. 35 year old horse poop in your case.

@thomasneal9291

5 жыл бұрын

" But I had a lot of research data on this about 35 years ago. But it was using coils to surround the pipe with a magnetic field. The data showed that calcium would precipitate out of solution and form a lump." nope, sorry, this is nothing but anecdote in the end. there's no physical or chemical process involving either electrical or magnetic fields that would cause dissolved calcium carbonate to do what you describe here. you literally need to add a chemical that will preferentially bond with the calcium over the carbonate ion and cause it to be insoluble. Classic example is using sulfuric acid to precipitate calcium sulfate. calcium carbonate does not react to magnetic fields, unless you deliberately dope it with something that does, which is rather complex in and of itself.

How could you *lose* that other calculator? It was about the size of a door!

@bigclivedotcom

5 жыл бұрын

I've not lost the huge one. It does appear to be buried under "stuff" though.

@Anvilshock

5 жыл бұрын

As the prophecies said, it shall return!

@robertcartier5088

5 жыл бұрын

@Undefined Lastname Nah, Man, you don't wanna be fucking with relativity.

@lilschnowyguy

5 жыл бұрын

@Undefined Lastname plus if you use that logic the last place you look is now your first, so it won't be there.

@brucesyahoo

5 жыл бұрын

Anvilshock He’s using it as a table.. ;)

There are similar looking units which pass a large dc current through the coils which generates a magnetic field along the pipe and through the water. The dc current is generated by a mains transformer that has a large number of primary turns and a single heavy gauge secondary turn connected across the coils via a rectifier. The resistance of the coil limits the current. The theory is that the movement of the water in the magnetic field aligns the ions nose-to-tail because of their asymmetric charge distribution. This causes them to join together in long chains which then have no tendency to attach themselves to the pipe walls. It can also be done using permanent magnets. I'm not sure it this has any scientific validity but I have observed that some large organisations that ought to know do use these devices, for example at each vending machine.

@niclaskarlin

2 жыл бұрын

Sounds like the petrol saving (scam) device. There is a use for this technology, in oil pipelines. Saw a video about this, maybe it was on Donut media.

The transistor in this case is used as an emitter follower, applying about 4.5V across the emitter's 1k resistor. The resulting emitter current is sent up to the collector's 1k resistor, but is 180 degrees out of phase. Note that the collector never gets low enough to saturate the transistor - about 12V. Because the two "antennas" are single-ended, there is zero current being sent into them, so no magnetic fields can be generated by either. Thus, all this thing does is to apply two anti-phase voltages to the two wires that you wrap around the pipe and which are only slightly coupled by a very weak capacitance between them, a picofarad or less. What they do after that is voodoo electronics - total hooey. Commenter emcgon rightly calls is "homeopathy for domestic plumbing." There is zero science backing what this sham electronics contraption claims to do. They are usually passed off as "a better water softener," total BS.

I asked a local plumber about these and he said they were completely bogus. If you want to de-scale water, you pretty much have to use the salt-based resin tank type conditioners.

This device is amazing. It also prevents elephant infestation (in UK only). But... the most amazing thing is that it works just as well when it's not powered, although of course it need power to work the pretty LED display. .

It's amazing that even after so many years, selling these things still isn't considered to be fraud, and not heavily penalized.

@thomasking5970

Жыл бұрын

Even more amazing is that commercial architects are still specifying them for some new construction...

the casing and the LED seems nice though

@l3p3

5 жыл бұрын

Engineer builds a nice LED effect. "No one would every buy that.", his boss tells him. But he replies: "Let us sell it as a magic water optimiser!"

@SnowBunneh

5 жыл бұрын

Subbed purely for the love of FlutterShy :3

@stewartcaldwell5299

5 жыл бұрын

Yes. Lovely case with no real purpose in life.

@spvillano

4 жыл бұрын

@@stewartcaldwell5299 why, it does have a purpose. It wastes electricity, for which I'm quite certain that the power company is quite appreciative of.

I always love when KZreadrs shoutout other KZreadrs in their wheelhouse. Spread the love Seems like all the electronics, Chem, and mechanical junkies are all here to have fun. EEVBlog, AvE, ElectroBoom, CodysLab, NileRed, and BigClive. Love ya'll

@MattP79

5 жыл бұрын

Check out Practical Engineering - another great channel.

@GigsVT

5 жыл бұрын

I stopped watching electroboom when he turned into a political channel

@qwertyasdf66

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah, except Dave doesn't seem to watch anybody else's channels.

@martinpickard6043

5 жыл бұрын

Dave gave a worthy shout out to FranLab recently

@qwertyasdf66

5 жыл бұрын

@@martinpickard6043 True, I forgot about that. Maybe it's just not his style to reference other youtubers regularly, like they reference him.

I had this exact same product installed for about 2 years, fitted at the same time as my new oil fired combi boiler. When the heat exchanger scaled up after only 2 years ago I removed it and threw it away. I then spent several hundred pounds on a proper water softener. 19 years since then and no problems! I live in an extremely hard water area. So hard that sometimes leaks 'heal' themselves due to scaling in only a few weeks!

Hoy Clive, let me put a story, about 15 years ago, we have big trouble maintaining an big boiler. the boiler excists of a steel tank 2 m3 size a circulating pump two heat exchangers steam/water ,and a pump feeding the hot water trough the factory. one heatexchanger standby the other heating the water coming from the ring and or circulating the water trough the boiler. the heatexchangers last 1 week then had to be opened and a bucket minerals came out, forget to clean means trow it away, imposible to open it again. the solution was a firm offering no cure no pay for a unit about 8000 Euro. he installed a cabinet and 10 windings around the pipes round the boiler. After a week the heatexchanger was clean! the other one was clean after 2 weeks and so on, cleaning after 10 weeks production only a cup of scale in it!. a few years later after rebuilding the hotwater supply, the boiler was filled up with about 700 liter scale from the pipes and boiler, and al the metal was clean! we paid the man, and we saved us thousends of euro ia a few years on maintenance. sinds then every house i live in I put a few magnets op the water pipe entering the house and near the hotwater unit. never have any problems with scale on my kitchen equipment. greetings Jos

I have a similar device, installed on a plastic water pipe, working for 16 years now! All I will say is that I have very few scale problems.

Don't pronounce full bridge rectifier in that way or your eyebrows might grow together.

@VincentRiquer

5 жыл бұрын

And next thing you know, he'll start purposefully give himself electric shocks while pretending it's by accident just for our entertainment. Ps I'd love an electroboom impression by big Clive

@ducomaritiem7160

5 жыл бұрын

Yes, he pronounced it and I felt the same way when I first heard the name of Angela Merkels replacement, "Annegret Kramp Karrenbauer"

@zvpunry1971

5 жыл бұрын

@@ducomaritiem7160 That name sounds like she has something to do with the automobile industry. ;) (If there were a "n" behind the "K", I would have said the same but with the arms industry.)

@oliverwalters9533

5 жыл бұрын

@pmailkeey FULL BRIDGE RECTUM FRYERS lmao

@oliverwalters9533

5 жыл бұрын

@pmailkeey you good sir, have won youtube

Transistor is a 2SC945, the base pin on the end gives it away; a BC would have the base pin in the middle. It is any 'old' transistor with much better options available today. Yes looks old. Nice enclosure.

The most interesting thing about this device is the way that the LEDs are driven. The rest is prime grade bs.

@herseem

2 жыл бұрын

Well, read my comment about my experience. Maybe you bought a fake one, which you can get on ebay.

It's an old technology that requires no updating because how do you "improve" snake oil. I was almost fired from a job at a plumbing supply house when word came down the pipe (see what I did there?) that our company had gotten into bed with this manufacturer of a device that would prevent scale in water piping. Astounding! No scale buildup whatsoever! Push this product! The units actually DO prevent the buildup of scale (from calcium carbonate in my instance), however it only worked where the windings were around the pipe and perhaps a foot or so beyond. However after the "ions had reconfigured", or whatever, the problem was actually worse. My suggestion was to REMOVE the "hardness" but they seemed happier to keep the sh*t in solution and pass it on to the end user who was drinking, bathing and cooking with this funny water. Total crap! Nice vid Clive. Also liked the Canadian Sweets video over black russians with blinky beard and buddy. Btw, we call them candy. Cheers mate!

@vincentrobinette1507

5 жыл бұрын

Is "technology" the right word for this nonsense?

If you think this is bad, you should see some of the stuff the “audiophiles” play with...

@FrontSideBus

4 жыл бұрын

@Dave Micolichek Directional cables are a big thing that people subscribe to and swear blind they can hear the difference... directional cables... with an AC signal LOL!

@Nonononono_Ohno

3 жыл бұрын

@@FrontSideBus These cables direct money to the scammers who sell them, so they're obviously working. 😖

@thenaylor

3 жыл бұрын

I had a quad 405 which had a hum that I thought was caused by the power supply. Sent it to a company called arch music in Scotland. When it came back it still had the hum. When I called him he tried to tell me it was my power and that a rhodium power cable for £150 would fix it. Astra time I spoke to that con artist.

My GF saw an ad for something similar. She asked me if it's worth looking at. I told her "they're woo". Then I remembered, Big Clive loves doing videos about this stuff. And sure enough, this is the first one it took me to. She was talking to the video a lot, and realized it is total woo. It's a lot cheaper to watch you tear one down, than for me to buy one to tear down. :)

Big clive I'm writing from the USA. Here in America we have a similar unit called a Scale Blaster. I know this because I work at a big box hardware store, and I heard rumors about this gadget. I actually heard about it from a customer who came to the store looking to buy a Scale Blaster. We didn't stock it but we directed the customer to our website to get it. I myself have a well water problem in my home. I have calcium chloride floating around in the water which causes scale to build up calcium deposits in my water heater (even with a water softner), and deposits in my toilet bowl, and around faucets. As a matter of fact years ago I replaced a 15 year old water heater and it took 4 men to carry it out because of heavy buildup of calcium. At any rate I purchased a Scale Blaster and installed it 6 months ago, and I will tell you flat out it works! It works as described in the instructions....It doesn't remove the calcium, it simply puts a charge in the scale molecules and keeps them from clumping together. I will end by saying I have received similar good result comments from other folks who have the units in their homes. Thanks for your knowledgeable teardown reviews, I am a subscriber and have watched many of them.

@al45tair

5 жыл бұрын

Calcium chloride is soluble and won't precipitate out, so cannot be responsible for blocking your pipes. And I'm sorry, but if your "Scale Blaster" is "magnetic" or involves winding wires round pipes, it doesn't work. What you want is a chemical scale preventer that uses an ion exchange medium. Either a whole house water softener, or a cartridge type preventer will work. Don't waste money on these nonsense devices.

@AdrepKeith

5 жыл бұрын

@@al45tair As I said in my comment............The scale blaster does not remove scale (precipitate out)...It keeps scale from clumping together. Result: Deposits do not form in appliances like water heaters, or form deposits in and around sink faucets or in the pipes. I too was skeptical when purchasing the product. However, I have positively confirmed the scale deposits in my home are now not a problem. In another year my anode rod in my water heater will be removed, it will be three years old at that time. I expect to see some calcium deposits on the rod from the time before scale blaster. The Scale Blaster does not remove calcium it just keeps the molecules from sticking together. EXAMPLE: I have a water distiller, when I use tap water, after the distillation I still have calcium in the empty reservoir....BUT it is not all clumped together it is much easier to clean out and I don't even need to use vinegar like I had to do before. Again it's not just me saying this I have had reports from others who have used the scale blaster and are pleased! You say snake oil to this.......I say snake oil to global warming!

I like how it takes more electronics to run the leds than the actual de-scaler itself

"I connected headphones to the output" - of course you would

I just purchased a home in West TX. The water there is horrible. I have been looking a all the methods to treat the water to make it better to drink and use whole house. I have always been skeptical about this product but (like you) always wondered what was in it and how it worked. I know that you can not magically remove the solids and compounds in water. I also expected to see BIG caps and coils. HOLY CRAP.. The second you opened it, I said SNAKE OIL!!! THANK YOU for driving the NAIL I that coffin for me. VERY GOOD tutorial and circuit explanation!! They spent more money on the box and LED chaser circuit to get you to fall for the hype. All the pipe in my TX house is PEX. Theres ZERO chance that this will properly work on a PEX system for the whole house.

When I read the title I genuinely thought this was going to be some sort of device that shrinks pipes.

@Nonononono_Ohno

3 жыл бұрын

The funny thing is that there really are devices which do just that, and as opposed to the "water descaling devices", they actually work very well: kzread.info/dash/bejne/X2aFw7aydK2qdaw.html

I was living with my uncle when he had one of these fitted, and I thought it was just flammery. Weirdly, it sort of worked. We lived on the South Coast of the UK where the water is VERY hard, and prior to having the thing fitted, we had to descale the kettle about every three months. With the unit fitted, the chalk seemed to fall out of the water as tiny flakes, rather than coating the inside of the kettle. That was fine (the kettle had a wire filter) but it was an ARSEHOLE for the shower, as the little flakes would get trapped in the holes and muss up the water flow. So yeah - not descaling as such, but it definitely made a difference.

@stevesmith132ss

2 жыл бұрын

We moved from the south coast to North Wales. Kettle de-scaled itself within a week!

A friend of mine had a similar device for removing iron from water. It worked quite well and collected enough iron to completely block the pipe where the wire was wrapped, leaving him without water for a day and bill for a plumber to replace 2 feet of pipe.

@lisakingscott7729

2 жыл бұрын

Was it called a magnet?

Thanks for reposting these gems, big Clive. I see some comments (which are good but, have pretty much totally opposing efficacy views) skew from "helpful" to "ineffective". Myself, I have not owned a house so I have not formed a valid opinion. I did once get talked into a water distiller; a friend made a deal through a wholesaler, and made what he could charge. About a 1-1/2 ft. (.5m) tall and 1 ft. (.3m) aluminum hot pot with cooling tube attached above. Good for distilled water for irons, batteries. I think since this was 1980s my parents thought I discarded it, so it is no longer around! But it had limited use. Good video breakdown of electronics

The less current you couple, the better it works. This is a high end device!

@bigclivedotcom

5 жыл бұрын

Like Bach Remedies.

I assume that it is just a impressive looking box of deception, with a full wave rect. ,current smoothing, and a oscillator chip to make the lovely, flashy LED's chase. and are used primarily to fleece susceptible pensioners,into spending what little money they have, on useless junk. with nothing of real value in return . . . Awesome Video, as always Clive! Thanx Jim :)

Did it descale your ears while listening?

@AverageJoe2020

5 жыл бұрын

If amplified it might descale ones bowels i guess?

@tbbw

5 жыл бұрын

@@AverageJoe2020 Was there not a rumored sound frequency that would make people shit themselves? I remember some old facebook chainmail "news" thingy where riot police would use a special brown noise to stop riots by literally point a speaker at people and make em shit themselves.

@AThreeDogNight

5 жыл бұрын

@@tbbw Correct you are, called the Brown Noise.

@AverageJoe2020

5 жыл бұрын

@@tbbw There have been a few odd things over the years like Brown noise and Seven cycle disintegrators, Fun myths to perpetuate!, J.

@stewartcaldwell5299

5 жыл бұрын

Huh ?

Haha. Love your videos. When you first opened it up I thought - bridge rectifier, smoothing cap, microprocessor to run the LEDS...which is basically what it was. What a load of bollocks - I was playing about with those chips in the 1990s when I was at school. Keep the videos coming! ❤️

You used Autoscale on the scale reducer. Was expecting the world to end.

Homeopathy for domestic plumbing.

@aopstoar4842

5 жыл бұрын

But think again... what is the difference between homeopaty and vaccination? Small amounts of dangerous substance is ingested or injected. There is only one crucial difference, but that is the difference that makes the difference. It is similar to the crystals women wear as necklasses to create good vibes. Crystals may work in radios because tuned circuits, but has no or little effect when just worn around your neck. Science and superstition is just millimeters away from each other. --> If you are a women and want to increase your frequency - cut the crystal much thinner which will increase the resonant frequency when a voltage is applied.

@Conservator.

5 жыл бұрын

Vaccines must have been proven to prevent people getting ill. Homeopathy must be proven not to make them ill.

@jamesrindley6215

5 жыл бұрын

@@aopstoar4842 Vaccination is proven to work and operates through a mechanism that is understood. Homeopathy is proven not to work and the claimed operating mechanism has no theoretical basis and is contrary to everything we know about how the world works.

@HighestRank

5 жыл бұрын

Eduard van Raalte bull💩 Vaccines work by injection of “poisioning matter” (see first reply’s *dangerous substance* )directly into the blood stream, of which without a shred of scientific reasoning I can attest makes sickness: shortly after I got flu-vacc, I felt sick like crap. James Rindley: The premise behind vaccines is nicknamed “herd immunity”: the strongest are pseudo-infected so they don’t become carriers to the weakest. Vaccinated herd members are most certainly made ‘ill’, and one can surmise that HOMEO pathy won’t work either unless someone/thing ELSE gets sick from it first. Good luck making a virus 🦠 sick once it’s already in like Flynn.

@Conservator.

5 жыл бұрын

Rýán Túçk A vaccine injects live, but weakened viruses so that your immune system creates anti-body’s. It’s normal that you feel “a little” I’ll afterwards. You have suffered from the disease in a minor degree. This makes you body prepared for the real thing. If you got infected by the real virus later on, your body will be able to respond much more quickly because it already has the specific antibodies ready to use. Vaccines are most useful for the weaker ‘sheeps’ (infants and elderly) because they are more likely to die from the disease. Though it’s true that also caretakers are often vaccinated to prevent them from infecting those that need there care. Vaccines are most effective if >95% of the population are protected so the disease has little chance to spread at all.

The weird connector and screw arrangement might be because it was originally meant for the strain relief of the mains input cable. Anyway I bet it's complete BS but they where clever enough to make it actually do something so it would be harder to conclusively prove that it doesn't work

My Brother-in-law got the farm when their parents passed away, the well on the farm gave very hard salty water. The plumbers installed a much larger filter thing that also was supposed to clean up the water and save the pipes which had indeed been clogging to such an extent that they needed to be replaced often costing big bucks. Well the filter did take a bit of the salt out of the water, but it was still the color of 1% milk mixed with water. When at long last the Missouri Diversion project was complete and farms in the area were served with water from the big muddy, the pipes were again removed and replaced. They still looked nearly as bad as the first replacement so other then improving the taste the device did little. Keep in mind this was a much larger device with filters that needed changing regularly. I know I would never waste my money on such a device, bottled water is cheap if you buy it by the case lot, and the filters you can pour your coffee water through are not all that expensive either. And as I say the problem was eliminated by the water from the Dams on the Missouri River about 80 miles North of here, they are now serving the majority of small towns from that project, the water isn't bad tasting and has been cleaned several times before reaching our homes, after all we all know what fish do in that water....

In highschool chemistry class, I learned that all rates in chemistry are temperature dependent. If you create a hot saturated salt solution, as the solution cools, the salt will precipitate out at nucleation points (scratches, roughness, dirt, etc...). If you slowly send a heated saturated salt solution through a long clear tube (with nucleation points) where some sections are exposed to a lot of cool air flow, and some sections are insulated, then the salt will precipitate out faster in the cool sections. If you gently heat a portion of tubing by just a few degrees, the salt won't precipitate out in that section. By carefully adjusting the flow rate, cooling rate per meter of tubing, initial brine temperature, and initial brine concentration, you could create a demonstration system where there the salt is coming out of solution everywhere except near the powered coil of wire. It would even work if the coil was powered with a woo-woo snake oil audio signal.

A pure placebo device - as soon as you heat the water above 75-80 degrees the lime drops out the water and the scale starts to form

It''s an old 007 product: Connery. The transistor 'C945' will likely be a 2SC945, not a BC945. Thanks BC.

Hello Clive, First; what wonderful informative videos! Now I'll stop grovelling. I have a water descaler unit fitted by a well-known northern gas company as part of my combi boiler installation. It comprises a "transformer" winding around the copper cold water inlet to the boiler, a single winding where both ends of the winding plug into the descaler unit. I've no idea how well it performs in descaling because not long after the water descaler unit was installed, we had to switch it off due to excessive radio interference. I suspect it is performance is similar to how well snake oil performs. At this point, I point out that I am a radio amateur with an electrical engineering background. The water descaler unit literally causes such high levels of radio interference that all the Long Wave broadcast band is obliterated and up as high in the radio spectrum as 2 MHz, by 50 Hz modulated hum every 20 kHz. (Looking at your scope picture I can see this unit I have may be so so similar in output.) The unit itself is powered by a small linear power supply, so it is not a switch mode PSU causing the interference, but the descaler itself. We surmise that the water descaler unit puts 20 kHz RF-induced into the water pipe to descale, but I am guessing because I've never worked on water descaler units before and I refer back to my previous comment about “snake oil”. I only wish I could ship it to you, but because it is under contract with, it has to remains in situ (and we only plugged in when they do the annual service)! Regards, K.

I bought one of these sort of things out of curiosity. Fitted it at the same time as a new cylinder. 10 years later, the cylinder had failed (mega hard water area) and I can see no difference inside the "new" (10 year old) pipework to the original. It's all scaled up and manky inside. Maybe this is because the one I bought just has 2 blinking LEDs and not a little Knight rider thingy?

I'm saying it has no effect, for the simple reason that they didn't have the chase lights go in both directions. These cheap K.I.T.T. knockoffs should be illegal.

@FrontSideBus

5 жыл бұрын

restcure It needs to scan back and forth like a Cylon Centurion for it to work...

@Melds

5 жыл бұрын

Too hard to get the real KITT. At least it's not a KARR clone.

@hmartinspliff

5 жыл бұрын

The unit should have a 'Turbo Boost' button......for emergency water softening situations.

@simpleminded1uk

5 жыл бұрын

can you get a KITT kit for it?

@restcure

5 жыл бұрын

@@simpleminded1uk yes, but if you want to build it, first you have to put on your KITT kit kit

14:36 Taking the liberty to speak for all of us, we would like to hear a recording of that particular noise.

This product is obviously snake oil but I can vouch for permanent magnet scale reducers. I obtained some very strong magnets, out of an old hard disk drive, and put them across the mains water pipe. I live in a very hard water area, on the Kent chalk downs and found the kettle would fur up very quickly. A few months after fitting the magnets the scale in the kettle almost completely disappeared and hasn’t furred up since. I have no idea how it works but for zero cost it has made an enormous difference.

Pretty cool. Thanks Clive. I would not waste my money on it unless I just wanted to play around with it.

If anyone actually thinks this works, then it's the placebo effect writ large! I have an ion exchange softener and a reverse osmosis filter system, both of which can be proven scientifically to work.

@stpaulmercantile

5 жыл бұрын

You’re giving it too much credit by comparing it to the placebo effect. Recent studies of the use of placebos have shown that many people get real metabolic changes from the use of placebos probably due to the brain’s response to the thought that the body is getting help from a drug. This gadget would therefore be worse than a placebo, as the brain’s not going to change the water in any way. It could change the way the body perceives the taste of the water, though, which is exactly what you were saying. In that case, even though it was the placebo effect, the brain may truly be perceiving a better taste (due to its physical responses to its expectation of better tasting water).

@johnfrancisdoe1563

5 жыл бұрын

John Squires The placebo effect directly affects spending habits on lime cleanup, which has a measurable effect on maintenance costs.

...snif...snif...snif... I smell fraud, gullible, fake, phoney! Kind of like the whole house bug repellent that turns your house wiring into a "virtual fence" for bugs... yeah right!

@AndyFletcherX31

5 жыл бұрын

Hey, a new product feature. Don't tell the manufacturer

@Matthew19002

5 жыл бұрын

Lol I was thinking you're probably giving them ideas... I'd be holding my breath for the infomercial XD as seen on tv! Not literally ofcourse lol...

@nigeljohnson9820

5 жыл бұрын

Ironically there is a species of ant that is attracted to electrical wiring and are known to short out the circuits in cars and house wiring.

@NOWThatsRichy

5 жыл бұрын

A bit like those whole house power savers & car fuel saving gadgets!

@johnsiders7819

5 жыл бұрын

Fire ants short out traffic signals in the south US often !

That resistor across the output of the regulator is likely there to ensure the 7805 actually regulates - those regulators need some minimal load current to stay in regulation and the MCU alone may not draw enough.

@stargazer7644

5 жыл бұрын

7805s do not need any minimum current to regulate.

@theskett

5 жыл бұрын

Interesting, I'da sworn that the 78xx's and 79xx's needed something like a 4K7 across the output, for stability; but [at least] this datasheet doesn't show such: www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Components/LM7805.pdf Maybe that 4K7 was just a Practical Electronics foible from the 70's :-)

I fitted one of these when I replaced my hot water cylinder, it doesn't work or not at least as I have installed it and I did follow the instructions, that is I still have a build up of scale on my taps. Now I would add I am a retired building services engineer, when I was working in industry I did trial several of these type of devices provided by manufacturers on a free of charge trial basis. Of the perhaps half a dozen trialled I only found one that was effective and that one did remove a build up of scale from within an industrial water heater within about six months, this I witnessed by opening the heater before and then six months after installation.

@bigclivedotcom

5 жыл бұрын

What technique did that unit use?

@TheLargit

5 жыл бұрын

bigclivedotcom Unfortunately I'm not sure and I can't recall the manufacturer. There are two different systems I'm aware of 1) that induces a magnetic field into the water, causing the dissolved scale ions to become negatively charged so they don't form scale and pass through the system rather than forming scale when heated, 2) that induces a radio frequency into the water and again does similar to the scale ions.. I believe both systems can work the important thing is the correct siting of the transducers on the pipelines, the effect is only temporary so, say the transducer were sited on the supply to a storage tank then the effect would have worn off by the time the water is heated and used, on the other hand if the transducer is sited on the flow pipe from the calorifier (water heater) then the water being used gets conditioned as well as the stored water in the calorifier.. The units I'm referring to are industrial but the principle is the same.. When I get some free time Im intending to move transducer coils of my unit from the supply pipe to to HWS cylinder to the flow.

The more LEDs on these sort of things always equates to more quackery.

@herseem

2 жыл бұрын

That I agree with. The Kemo brand ones have two LED's, one for power and one for the circuit has been installed correctly, and they do actually make the scale softer in the kettle at the very least, so it comes off by itself.

7:45 FULL BRIDGE RECTUM FRYER

@DrakkarCalethiel

5 жыл бұрын

James Golen Was going to write this. Is it made by International Rectumfryer?

@markiangooley

5 жыл бұрын

James Golen multi-Canadian terminology!

I think you only did half the investigation. Yes, when the transistor is on the top coil only drops to about half the ~17V, but the bottom coil would also rise to about half the ~17V. Then when the transistor is off the top coil returns to the ~17V and the bottom coil would return to gnd reference. That's the magic sauce that makes this (not) work so well. It's a differential signal between the two antennas.

@vincentrobinette1507

5 жыл бұрын

Notice, that the base of the transistor is being driven from the IC, which only puts out 5 V. If you subtract the base-emitter voltage of the transistor junction, it can only pull about 4.3 volts across the 1,000 ohm emitter follower resistor. That's only .0043 amps. Barely enough to be detected, let alone, have any effect on water flowing through a pipe at about 100 gallons per hour. If this thing had heavy transformers and power transistors like you'd find in a big guitar amplifier, it might almost be believable.

listened to it with headphones eh? What I've got from this is I can stick my earbuds into my mains socket and listen for the sweet sweet whispers of mother gaia.

If you put it in a metal bucket with a TV aerial it turns into a free energy device.

@squirming_squirrels

2 жыл бұрын

Don’t forget the crystals.

@tripjet999

2 жыл бұрын

NOTHING is "free."

Transistor is actually a 2SC945, which is pretty much the Japanese equivalent of a BC54x or 2N3904 type device. Pinout is B C E. And yes, these devices are utter bunkum

@vincentrobinette1507

5 жыл бұрын

It really doesn't matter what the transistor is, it only has to conduct 4.2 milliamps, based on a 5 volt drive from the IC, and the 1000 ohm emitter follower resistor. The transistor won't even get warm. The base-emitter voltage drop of the transistor drops the 5 volt drive from the IC down to about 4.2-4.5 volts at the emitter. divide that by 1,000 (hence the 1,000 ohm emitter follower resistor)

My roommates and I had super hard water at our old house - scale buildup in the shower, buildup on the filler tube of our fridge water spout, etc - so we tried one of these. The theory is it homogenizes the molecules in the water or something so they stay in solution and don’t precipitate out. Does nothing for the kettle because 1) it will simply start amalgamating and precipitating again as soon as the excitation source is gone, and 2) the kettle serves to actively concentrate any dissolved solids. It theoretically de-scales existing precipitate in the pipes by effectively making the water softer, which if true does have the impact of scavenging calcium deposits it encounters (which is why your pool needs some baseline calcium hardness, to avoid dissolving it’s own grout). Again, theoretically. What I CAN say is, within a couple days or weeks of installing it, our fridge started spitting out big chunks of liberated scale that looked to have collected in the water chilling coil in the fridge. Also, VERY coincidentally, a bunch of pinhole leaks (like, 3 separate occasions and locations) sprang up in our garage, as if calcium deposits were the only thing plugging them up. Tough to say definitively that it works, but the apparent effects we saw do seem to follow the theory of what it’s supposed to do.

@AlexWhittemore

4 жыл бұрын

But also it caused a crap load of drywall damage in the garage, so maybe just leave your scale-ravaged pipes be. Or just don’t finish your garage. Who wants a finished garage anyway?

Simular units called "Aqua-Rex" are used in the swimming pool industry. I have a few clients that have them. These units do not work quickly but from what I can tell, they do work over time. They are not a quick fix. They way that it was explained to me that they work is they supposedly broadcast some radio frequency waves or energy into the water which causes the metals or minerals to start vibrating. The vibrating metals or minerals are not able to bond or attach (scale) to surfaces due to them moving. If there is scale already present, it vibrates the scale on the molecular level. This vibrating causes the scale to break free from the surfaces. I have always been skeptical about these units myself but I have one client in particular that had a horrible problem with scaling in his pool. His total dissolved solids were off the charts. He asked me to instal an Aqua-Rex on his pool. No new scalling has occurred in the several years that he has had it and I have reason to believe that his Calcium levels keep rising due to old scaling being broken down and reabsorbed into his pool water. The white, dust like material in the water is so fine that it isn't even able to be captured by his filter media and which is supposed to filter down to 4 micron. It has taken several years to start realizing the effects of his device. I'd say that it probably works to prevent scale or to reverse the scale that has already but up in swimming pools but only the most patient of people would give it enough time to realize a bennefit. Patients is less common (in most people) by the day it seems. Anyway, love your channel, the knowledge, and the humor. Thank you!

Well the case is nice..... good for some outdoor project. The rest is pure horse dooky.

@jamesgrimwood1285

5 жыл бұрын

I thought the box looked quite nice too. The kind of thing you'd stuff a lipo battery and some control electronics in, to manage a solar garden light project.

@mueffe1357

5 жыл бұрын

@@jamesgrimwood1285 or a pseudo whole house alarm system. That red running led looks really menacing. Almost movie like.

So, if I wrap my speakers wires around my pipes and put on Zeplin, I'm good to go.

@cloudbase7799

3 жыл бұрын

LED Zeppelin

According to Christiani Wassertechnik (CWT) of Germany, their system uses two cylindrical charge plates (approximated by the coils) over the pipes to induce an electric field through the water. The molecules of calcium compounds then convert through a mechanical/chemical process of electrophoresis to a less sticky calcium compound while carbon dioxide is released as a byproduct. The carbon dioxide mixes with the water to form carbonic acid which helps to remove existing calcium scales. The transformation is temporary and the less sticky calcium compound will revert back to the original sticky stuff in about 2-7 days depending on water temperature. The chemical reaction formula is Ca(HCO3)2 + Electrophoresis -> CaCO3 + CO2 + H2O. Whether their claim is true or not I have no idea, but they seem to have some very large customers.

"Well you know if it works don't mess with it." Well, if a fancy flashing led light bar is what you're looking for, BINGO!

@vincentrobinette1507

5 жыл бұрын

That really is the bulk of the technology in this thing, if you can call it "technology".

glorified led chaser in waterproof case... theres no way that is going to descale water

@electronash

5 жыл бұрын

But...but it has "Knight Rider" LEDs. That's at least something, right? It means "something magical is happening". lol Yeah, I hate devices like this. Preying on the vulnerable or technically challenged. More Countries need to make boxes like this illegal. Perhaps if the voltage and current on the pipe were way higher, it would have a chance to ionize the water and maybe have a chance to do erm, something? lol But would then be quite dangerous if the cable connections were exposed.

@WacKEDmaN

5 жыл бұрын

@@electronash wanna hope someone hasnt bodged an earth wire to the pipes too!..and voltage/current isnt magically gonna be between the 2 coils.. if anythin was getting into the water it would make it active straight outta the tap!

@electronash

5 жыл бұрын

@@WacKEDmaN Yeah, it is very worrying about what some of these boxes are doing. I'm sure there are plenty that simply pass the mains (or HV pulses) directly through the coil of wire. As Sir Clive of Bigness said, though - even if it was a full inductor with two connections, a metal pipe would act a lot like a "shorted turn" on a transformer anyway, so the net voltage across the section of pipe would be almost zero. I know there are genuinely useful de-scaling systems available, but they are often combined with filtration, so are more to just aid the filters somewhat. I don't pretend to know the chemistry behind it, but I'm 99% sure this particular device will be using more power on the LEDs and lossy wall wart than it actually makes practical use of. lol

@tmdrake

5 жыл бұрын

Looks cool though!

@JasperJanssen

5 жыл бұрын

WacKEDmaN uhm... all metal water pipes should be earthed. That’s not a badge.

My dad (an easily hoodwinked type) had something similar to this back in the 90s, it didn't work... :P You get less quacks from a duck pond... :P

Glad to see you pull this gadget apart. I was wondering what what inside. I too was hoping for some big type of induction coils and was a little disappointed.

I'm not mechanically inclined at all yet I still thoroughly enjoy your content

you are the best clive!.

the 1 thumb down must be from the person making this device haa haaa

@SpikeXtreme

5 жыл бұрын

and the 11 others were the people who bought this device.

@MrCordycep

5 жыл бұрын

@@SpikeXtreme Or their investors. 😯

I know that product, I was the technical advisor till 2 yrs ago. Its a very very old design, inherited after many company takeovers. We use large electro magnets in commercial water treatment as well. No one can give a satisfactory answer why they work though, there are a couple of competing theory's. It's water conditioning not water softening. Despite some dubious claims from various companies.

@bigclivedotcom

5 жыл бұрын

I can recall it being featured in electronics magazines at the dawn of electronics.

@TheEmbeddedHobbyist

5 жыл бұрын

Elector did a project some time in the 80s I think. Swepping audio in to a coil around the pipe. I used the circuit as a sound generator for a prank on a mate. Placed in his bed room it would chirp 6 or so hours after it got dark and shut up when the light came on. Then stay quiet 1 to 3 days before going off again. Took him 3 months to find it. 😁

@hixxie7848

5 жыл бұрын

@@TheEmbeddedHobbyist spot on 😉

After carefully considering your excellent analysis Clive, I have to call this device bogus. ~nice scope

I bet it outputs current into the wires solely to show it's doing something if tested, but not enough to risk any sort of injury.

So 95% of the circuit flashes some LEDs, and the rest of 5% does absolutely nothing relevant to the task at hand. Gotcha. Exactly as expected. Except of course I can do the exact same thing with nothing but magnets, without wasting any electricity - they fail to do anything at all equally effectively.

Bull's Height sounds a good description !!

I loved the Electro Boom reference!

It would be interesting to see a JW review on this.

@ELECTROHAXZ

5 жыл бұрын

nogginthenog Indeed.

@lordmuntague

5 жыл бұрын

Yep, given that he's already done water conductivity tests. This would be a good follow up.

I just put magnets on the pipe, and say thank you once a week. works well i think.

@vincentrobinette1507

5 жыл бұрын

At least a magnet MIGHT possibly pull some iron out of the water, which is more than can be expected from a low power circuit like this.

This sort of sideshow quackery makes me so glad I live in a very soft water area. No limescale, ever!

@Drew-Dastardly

5 жыл бұрын

I too live in a very soft water area. Strangely the local supermarkets all supply ample dishwasher salt and even the Green label Yorkshire Tea!!! (Thankfully Red label is provided too).

The BC945 is in classic phase splitter mode. Its emitter is in phase with its base drive. The Collector is 180 degrees out of phase with the base drive. The gain of the circuit is 1 and -1 (The gain is Rc / Re = 1K / 1k = 1) Thus the emitter is approx 4.35 Volts peak to peak with ref to 0 Volts and the collector is 4.35 Volts Peak to Peak with reference to the +17 volts rail.

Can't imagine how something like this would work. If you stripped off ions so that they separated from the scale, the ions would flow through the pipes and just reattach to each other at some point down the line. One concern I might have is what this current might do to lead solder joints. You're introducing a current into a pipe which woujld otherwise be "grounded" or "earthed". Would the "sound" introduced by the device make the pipe vibrate in such a way as to loosen and dislodge the scale? Again, I'd have to ask what effect this might have on solder joints. I'd have to see a thorough scientific explanation before I bought any device like this.

@therianet

5 жыл бұрын

You can sort of show scientifically that it does do something, to stay legal, they just wont show you how inefficient it is.

@CyberlightFG

5 жыл бұрын

That pipe has to be electrically grounded by law.

@Mark1024MAK

5 жыл бұрын

noferblatz - what vibration? This device puts out a less than a fraction of a mW into the pipe...

@jostouw4366

5 жыл бұрын

Any vibration or temperature flexing could be bad for lead free solder as we know from the early fail rate of modern equipment, I smell a devious plot there!

@johnfrancisdoe1563

5 жыл бұрын

jos Touw The solder joints in question are the huge ones on the pipe, not tiny electronic ones.

Funny, the sticker on the outside of the unit says that it is 230VAC when in fact, it should be a LOW DC voltage in...

@gavincarstens6497

5 жыл бұрын

Same case can be used with a transformer on board... this one has transformer externally like Clive said... for ease of export

@Mark1024MAK

5 жыл бұрын

Gavin Carstens - more like bigger profit margin. Buy a cheap Chinese external PSU rather than order and fit a quality transformer certified for use in this country...

@CyberlightFG

5 жыл бұрын

It doesn't need to be recertified with external power supply. So it's just cheaper.

I had a friend who worked in a machine shop that used to make an absolute KILLING making the permanent magnet version of these things and custom-fitting them to the irrigation systems at farms. We were both in grad school for chemistry at the time (he was only part-time and I was full time), and we both agreed that they almost certainly do not work, but there isn't exactly any money in telling people that...

I've used a Scalewatcher for many years, it only has one coil but is connected at both ends. I have to say it works very well indeed. You still get the scale but it is soft and easy to wipe away. Chemically things do not change (how could they) but structurally the deposit is no longer hard as a rock.

I would have inverted the colors of the oscilloscope picture to save toner/ink.

@bigclivedotcom

5 жыл бұрын

Bulk ink system. Not a worry.

@jostouw4366

5 жыл бұрын

@@bigclivedotcom Plus it would use more white ink

When transistor is close circuit the two coils are at the same potential about half of that voltage and then when it is open one will be a 17V delta or whatever that power supply was. Not sure how it works or if it works but the way it was designed with 1k resistors on each sides make sense so that current is limited on both of those outputs for protection.

@Mark1024MAK

5 жыл бұрын

electrodacus - when the transistor is off (like an open switch) no current flows. So the resistors at that point don’t do anything much in terms of current flow. The top wire coil will then be at the supply voltage (nominal +17V). The bottom wire coil will be at 0V. The difference is 17V. When the transistor is on and conducting current (like a closed switch), current flows from the +V supply (nominal 17V) through both resistors to the 0V rail. As both resistors are 1k ohms, if the transistor is fully on, the voltage at both wire coils will be half the supply voltage (about 8V). The difference is now nothing, they are both at about the same voltage (depending on the saturation voltage of the transistor, likely to be less than 0.1V). The only useful thing the resistor connected to the 0V rail does, is to help limit the current (along with the other resistor) when the transistor is on. It also causes the voltage change on the wire coil as described above. As Clive says, it’s not actually needed. Why? First note that no point of this circuit is connected to mains earth/ground. There is also no direct electrical connection to the metal of the pipe or to an earth/ground rod. Well without the bottom resistor, the bottom wire coil would always be at 0V. But the voltage on the top wire coil would switch between 17V and 0V. So the voltage difference would switch between 17V and 0V. Yes, the same effect... At no point can there be a short circuit where any significant current will flow, even if the output wire coils are shorted together. Makes me think that this device was designed by someone with a limited understanding of electronics.

@therianet

5 жыл бұрын

@@Mark1024MAK emitter resistor might be for safety in case pipe isn't grounded and have mains voltage leaking on it

@petehiggins33

5 жыл бұрын

Actually the circuit is incapable of turning the transistor fully on because the drive voltage is only 5V, it's an emitter follower. When 5V is applied to the base, the emitter voltage rises to about 4.5V and so the current is about 4.5V/1k = 4.5mA. This current flows through the top 1k resistor which also drops 4.5V. So the Collector voltage drops to 17V - 4.5V = 12.5V. So the voltage across the output wires switches between 17V and 8V. All of this is of course irrelevant because it has no effect on the water whatsoever. I'm guessing that the same circuit is used to drive a piezo transducer in rodent repelling devices which also don't work.

@theskett

5 жыл бұрын

@@petehiggins33 Thanks, good job, you saved me a bunch of typing :-) It's unfortunate that so many people don't know how an emitter follower functions.

"If you use your imagination you could invent ways this could work"......hahaha, great stuff. I've come across these a few times over the years and always thought they were snake oil, despite some homeowners assuring me they work! Wouldn't be at all surprised if we start seeing updated versions that connect with an app on your phone 'showing you' how much nasty limescale you're saving your taps and showers from.

2SC945, one of the many TUN type transistors. Japanese pinout though, not the usual European standard.

There is absolutely no way this can descale anything. Hard water is basically water with calcium compounds dissolved. So regardless of the current induced in the water, you have the same ions before and after the "descaler", resulting in the same chemistry. The only way this "works" is by people imagining it does. It's a led chaser strip with placebo effect.

@jostouw4366

5 жыл бұрын

It aligns the polarity of the ions so they flow better at least until the first bend

@featheredskeptic1301

5 жыл бұрын

@@jostouw4366 that polarity is going to be dealt away with log before the first bend. The Brownian motion of the water molecules and the ions themselves is going to jumble everything just as well as it was before the "descaler". After all we are talking about ions in a fluid.

@jostouw4366

5 жыл бұрын

@@featheredskeptic1301 Think you missed the irony and the coppery ...............................

@featheredskeptic1301

5 жыл бұрын

@@jostouw4366 Oh, ok. My bad. You just never know with people nowadays. I've heard way more ridiculous statements from people who are serious, they broke my irony detector. Sorry.

@jostouw4366

5 жыл бұрын

@@featheredskeptic1301 Know what you mean the world is full of strange people sometimes they hide in mirrors lol

Those things will not work any better than the ones for increasing fuel mileage on cars, which if they worked would come as standard on trucks and buses as well as cars.

I used something similar but it was on a much larger scale like 30 lb metal box and we would use it to thaw out pipes mainly work on galvanized pipes by inducing current through them

@bigclivedotcom

5 жыл бұрын

That sounds like a simple transformer?

@theskett

5 жыл бұрын

Like Big Clive implies, it's fairly common (if unsafe! :-) practice to thaw out pipes by attaching welder clamps either side of the iced-up section.

I think your idea on how the code work is most likelly right. Since it is an older microcontroller, it probably have no PWM output, so the pseudo code is something like: while (true) { setLed(1); loop(number of pulses for 1000Hz and the time for each frequency (200ms?)) { pulses(cycles for the pulse, cpu frequency / pulse frequency / 2) } setLed(2); loop(1200Hz); ... } void pulse(cycles) { setPinHigh(); delayCycles(cycles); setPinLow(); delayCycle(cycles); } In other words, very easy to code. The schematics is also very basic. I could actually replicate the whole thing with less than a day of effort and have a board layout made and ready to be sent to a fab house. Of course, due to the casing, it need more work, but I wouln't be surprised if the hardest part of all of this is the actual plastic casing itself. With a modern microcontroller, it would be even easier to do as they have a timer and a PWM output. The PWM work via an hardware counter. The PWM goes high at 0, and goes low when it hit the set value. The counter reset when it hit a second value. By adjusting the top value, you change the frequency, and by setting the middle value to half of the top you keep a 50% pulse. Sound complicated, but... really, you just set x,y... delay... set x,y, delay.... And you save a truckload of instruction space since you don't have to make so many loops, so even the 3 cents microcontroller is way more than enought for it!

@vincentrobinette1507

5 жыл бұрын

I agree. The most fascinating thing about this, is using 7 outputs to sequentially control 12 LED's. I do believe the LED's transition each time the ramp generator resets. The ramp generator is just a virtual binary counter. It's what causes the sweep in pulse interval frequency. The programming is rather clever, but boy, did they ever skimp on the output power. the mere 17 milliwatts of power just isn't going to do much, with 100 gallons per hour of water flowing through a pipe.

I'm pretty sure it's fake. From a chemistry standpoint, I don't see how it would do anything.

@D_Abbo

5 жыл бұрын

It works! You must only B E L I V E! (At this point please introduce The X-Files music!)

@MarcAntoine01

5 жыл бұрын

It works 100%, I make demineralized water with it.

@CyberlightFG

5 жыл бұрын

The copper is a closed Faraday cage. Nothing happens inside.

@MarcAntoine01

5 жыл бұрын

Yes it does trust me, I'm a scientist.

@CyberlightFG

5 жыл бұрын

@@MarcAntoine01 I heard, you can use it as a fuel saver, too

didnt know you watched electroboom. nice

@MarcAntoine01

5 жыл бұрын

I think most youtubers watch each others videos ^^

@TheActionBastard

5 жыл бұрын

What the hell else is there *to* watch? :P @@MarcAntoine01

@MarcAntoine01

5 жыл бұрын

@@TheActionBastard ASMR LUL

@simpleminded1uk

5 жыл бұрын

let's see it on a tray

I am very sceptical about these but I have this exact one and it does seem to do something. I have a mixture tap just after the heat exchanger coil inside my hot water tank (kingspan flowmax system) and every 4 years it would stop working due to calcium build-up. The manufacturers said this was typical for the area where I lived. I fitted one of these 15 years ago to the main cold water supply from the street and it's never reoccurred. There may be other reasons but as bizarre as it sounds it stopped it happening again.

That scope printout really came out beautifully