It's even more confusing, when they apply both - infantilisation and parentification (adultification/spousification), so you're not able to do anything, but also responsable for everything.

@dianaop9880

3 жыл бұрын

Hell yes.

@crazydragy4233

3 жыл бұрын

Indeed

@lauratheexplorer6390

3 жыл бұрын

This is truth!

@BoredLoserAlpha

2 жыл бұрын

👍😀🔫🖕

@Madhatter1781

2 жыл бұрын

Hey, that's exactly what happened to me :) Along with a lil dash of physical abuse, the "You are responsible for everything but also you get absolutely no freedom to account for that" thought was very strong.

It is as I say: You can't pick your parents, but you can choose your family.

@asagoldsmith3328

4 жыл бұрын

A-fucking-men

@FoamKittyGamer

4 жыл бұрын

@alex z Being related is by blood, being family is loyalty. You don't have to be blood related to someone to be family. Even friends can be family to you.

@fionafiona1146

4 жыл бұрын

The blood *of the covenant* is thicker than the water *of the womb*. People shorten this quote too often.

@Starhawke_Gaming

4 жыл бұрын

@alex z - "you are going to be raised by the people who gave birth to you" - Well, except for all the children who end up in foster care or getting adopted. But of course that is not at all what @Dot Nerd meant when she said you can choose your family. What she meant is that once you are able to emancipate, you can choose to completely cut the people who raised you out of your life and build your own support network "family" out of people who will respect and support you in healthy ways. This can be especially hard when the family who raised you infantalized you to make you not trust your own decisions, but if you are able to "cut the apron strings" you can get away from that toxic environment and be your own person. Of course @Dot Nerd didn't meant that as a baby we literally get to choose the family who will raise us.

@FoamKittyGamer

4 жыл бұрын

@alex z Sure the family you're related to is blood family, doesn't mean you're stuck with that family.

"Your birth wasn't a gift to you. It was your parents' gift to themselves. They gave themselves a child." As a childfree person who has been told countless times by people, organizations, and society at large that I'm "selfish" for not giving hypothetical children life, this line resonates very strongly with me. Having a child is not the Pure and Selfless Act that so many make it out to be. I am no more selfish for not having children I don't want than parents are for having children they do want.

@TheraminTrees

4 жыл бұрын

Yep. And, in keeping with the infantilisation theme, a common parting shot is: 'Oh you'll change your mind when you're older' - insinuating the childfree person's position must stem from immaturity, and can't be the result of conscious reflection on a range of issues.

@bananamanchester4156

8 ай бұрын

Great point here! And I think your story highlights how, by pressuring and forcing people into having children they don't want actually devalues the gift of having a child. It's natural to feel resentment for a gift that's been forced on us, that we don't actually want. But it's misplaced resentment- it's not the gift that's the problem, it's the violation of our consent, our wishes for ourselves and what we receive. If we don't want the gift of a child then we shouldn't be forced to accept one. If we do decide we want one, we will appreciate and value the child all the more for the fact that it's our choice.

@Seeattle

8 ай бұрын

Imo it’s all just hormones anyway. They keep us wanting to procreate- not strictly selfish nature

@moosepatil5946

8 ай бұрын

I wanted no children for a very long time. But I've changed my mind and I can assure you, I don't think I'm giving myself a gift. I want children because I believe I am capable of raising children without damaging them. I believe I have the ability to add to the world a brilliant, loved individual and not a broken, damaged being. Getting here took 15 years of careful self reflection and tremendous personal growth. Maybe some people think of children as a gift to themselves, but not all, many, or most. You can't speak to the thoughts behind the process if you have no interest in the process. Be childfree, but don't act like your are being selfless in doing so or insinutate that those who do have children are selfish. It's your choice to not have child. Your choice doesn't need a moral value assigned to it anymore than the people who choose to have children need a moral value assigned to their choice.

@snarkbotanya6557

8 ай бұрын

@@moosepatil5946 When did I say I was being selfless by not having children? I don't want children and I'm not going to have any. In my view, that's not a selfish or a selfless act, just a neutral one. I also said that not having children is no more selfish than having them, i.e. *that neither is morally superior to the other.* If I came across as argumentative at any point, that would most likely be a spilling over of the irritation at having had *many* people over the years act like having children made them morally superior to me.

"You live in my house, you live by MY rules! I have no reason to keep you here, so you better behave." "Why did you lock yourself in the bathroom?!" "Because you all kept coming in even though I asked you not to multiple times." "That's not a reason to lock the door!" "You do as I say, and will be judged based on what I thought I said." "You need to do better." "I'm trying to do the best I can." "Then you're not trying hard enough." "I will always be your father and you will always be my child. Even when you grow up, you will still have to listen to me." "You owe me your life, this house, and the food I'm providing you. And don't pretend like you don't, you selfish little brat." No wonder I want to go live in a college dorm. Thank you for systematically opening my eyes.

@christalcavanaugh

4 жыл бұрын

“Your best isn’t good enough!” While never directly said to me, it’s clear that’s what they meant....

@amberrichards2778

4 жыл бұрын

My wife's father used to say this to her. Joke's on him, none of his four children speak to him anymore and the child he named his Junior has LEGALLY CHANGED HIS NAME. Mym doesn't follow his rules anymore, and neither do the other people he abused.

@HiddenOcelot

4 жыл бұрын

@@christalcavanaugh me too bro, but sometimes said to me.... but I've gotten better I think, maybe still working on it, but luckily my mother did allow me freedom to choose what I did when I left, and I went to the army to get money and some things I needed, mostly space from my family, and freedom to explore myself a bit.

@MooneyBabbler

4 жыл бұрын

I recognize more of this than I really should. Did we have the same dad?

@101iswhatsup

3 жыл бұрын

😭 even when it's not directly said, that "do better", "I'm trying my best" It's a painful cycle. Say you want the best for me like I want to settle, but personal accomplishments don't typically count. They'll make sure to compare you to others, directly but usually covertly. I've been trying to tell my parent, you're the only one I have left, I love you....you don't have to do everything for me, but stop clipping my wings if you expect me to fly. Be well y'all. Not sure if any are religious or not, but to encourage, where our earthly parents failed us at points, our Heavenly Father loves us dearly. He wakes us up, He incubated us in the womb, He knows our worth..He See's all. Peace and blessings y'all.

“In healthy relationships, people don’t try to trap each other with guilt, obligation, or debt.” Something I wish my dad had learned before he helped conceive me and my siblings. Stayed stuck in a lot of broken and abusive relationships before an actual friend pointed out something. “If some guy you don’t know buys you flowers, you don’t owe him a date, relationship, love, or sex. Similarly, if some family member or “friend” gives you something, you don’t owe them love”. You are never obligated to love. Platonic, familial, romantic, whatever; Love comes naturally, you never owe it to anyone, family or otherwise.

@coopergates9680

3 жыл бұрын

Love is earned, and it can be very difficult to earn at that, and certainly not with materialistic means or old, very common habits.

@macadon041

Жыл бұрын

I agree

@Dragons4Dummies

Жыл бұрын

While everyone is deserving of love, no one is entitled to it from any particular person.

@justinaacuriouswanderer1496

11 ай бұрын

You hit the spot. My father is a very infantilising person. I was subjected to "relentless debilitating micromanagement." 10:33 I go out to the hall to get some water from the dispenser, Dad is closely watching me (already giving me the sense I'll do something wrong inevitably), then he says, "you can't do it," or "you can't do this, you'll be full. You don't know what you need." We're at the dining table, I try to scoop a bit of rice into my bowl, he tells me, "You won't be able to do it. Help her, [mom's name]!" (that's before I even try, and if I fail, it's a no-brainer. Notice we're talking about scooping some bloody rice here! Micromanagement happened to the point of me now being scared or instinctually paranoid about leaving my room and being in his proximity. I'd rather not even if I needed to.). Here's how that's related to debt. I tell him I want my mom to be independent (or me for that matter, in the sense of going out without a huge stifling interrogation of "how I'll do it on my own."). So again, I tell him I want my mom to be financially independent. He responds in a different but equivalent way to the past responses, by saying, "what else do you need? I provide you with everything." See that "else"? As in "nothing else is equivalent to what I give you," as in "I gave you so much," as in "you are indebted for the fact I took care of you." Or, more clearly, as in "what else can you do?", again, diminishing mom's ability to do and making her believe she won't be able to and needs "management" (not diminishing it out of malice, but because he seriously believes she can't. She's just an infant.) That "else" says so much. It says two things, "what else can you do?" and that therefore due to your incapacity, you have to be grateful. And he does say those things literally. Whenever I try to look for something independently, he takes it as a personal insult, a gesture of ungratefulness to what he gives me (which is what most parents should give if they love their children anyway), but more than that, a gesture of me believing I can do something on my own or have my own "personhood" (which to him is bad and even simply untrue). To the point that now the least thing a non-parental figure gives me makes me happy and in an instinctual state of the need to reciprocate with so much, so much more than I am given. Like I've been offered something so great (although it's a small gesture or flower or promise or hug) that I need to reciprocate because in not "reciprocating" and in wanting to have my own personhood and independence, I was trained to see myself as ungrateful and even wrong about my capacity. This video has made me see so much... So much trauma (that made me feel seriously ill) whose connections I couldn't quite make without feeling like I'm just spewing hackneyed, overused aphorisms from cliché childhood psychology or just wanted justification for my behavior like a "victim" (I looked at myself in contempt whenever I tried to see myself as one, because, well, you know.) I even feel horrible and as if my pride was hurt about realizing I might be a victim, because I was trained I "can't"... Get out of it. (whatever it is, not just even victimhood). So there's this spiraling never-ending vortex of "I can't" and they're so debilitating. Treating your child as an infant is like sentencing them to death.

@bluecoin3771

2 ай бұрын

Guilt Obligation Debt G.O.D. Sweet criminey.

This channel feels like a magic enclave where sanity is allowed.

@taiyoqun

9 ай бұрын

"Sanctuary... is a word which here means a small, safe place in a troubling world. Like an oasis in a vast desert or an island in a stormy sea."

@Espartanica

9 ай бұрын

​@@taiyoqunEnclave... is a word that means a place or group that is different or distinct from those around it.

Disabled people are often infantalized. A broken body is not an indication of maturity nor knowledge. I wish people understood that. Even strangers do it but my husband has been doing it more and more since I was injured. Combined with isolation, a lack of independence, and chronic pain it is challenging to face. Your videos help me understand. I do not see a way out so I have to see a way through, understanding helps alleviate the overwhelming frustration.

@fingerboxes

Жыл бұрын

I have brain damage that makes it hard to do things like walk, recognize faces, and swallow so that combined with my parents being abusive made everyone think I was stuck at the intellectual level of a toddler well in to my teens. Standardized tests actually proved that I was about two years ahead of my peers academically and I had taught myself to read when I was 3 out of sheer boredom. I was always being talked down to and treated as inferior which was immensely frustrating Even when I did display aptitude it was usually directly called out as me being an idiot savant. Getting the internet changed so much for me. People couldn't see my disability so for the first time they could engage with me on equal footing. It was amazing.

@QuickManSimp

Жыл бұрын

I have Asperger’s syndrome, though light, my parents still infantilize me (they track my location, my spendings, etc. They use that trait as an excuse to treat me like a child.

@thomaslewis3170

Жыл бұрын

​@@QuickManSimp good luck

@ethereal946

7 ай бұрын

32:23 My brother and I have been going over this while talking about our upbringing which was riddled with deep emotional neglect to the point no one ever even relates to each other when they've moved out and form their own lives, we don't do holidays so there's no yearly meetups or anything. We were raised with 3 square meals, an education and a house to sleep in, all that came with a strict set of religious expectations you could never break but were also repeatedly told salvation is a choice but choosing any different starts a conflict, this is called the right path and that combined with the basic needs we should be more than grateful that we aren't street kids starving to death and have happened to be born in just the right house to find the true path to eternal life. At 22 years I was given verses for a hairstyle I had in my head, they prohibited any extensions so I loced my hair and even that was a problem apparently it was too elaborate and my hair needs to be simple and not draw attention. My clothes are constantly criticized, it's on my knee so it's not long enough it should be below my knee, best if it hits the ankles. Nothing is good enough till you completely subscribe to the religious rules which are so suffocating and don't support for any individuality, then the praise and approval follows....it's exhausting

I'm afraid of becoming like my father or stepfather, either absent or abusive. Thank you for your videos, I feel as though my understanding is increasing.

@principleshipcoleoid8095

4 жыл бұрын

Sometimes fathers are apsent due to mothers choice. You are probably lucky to not be afraid that you will be forced to be an absent father. I guess fathers aren't afraid untill they realise they don't live in EU and they are getting divorced.

@nathangamble125

4 жыл бұрын

@@principleshipcoleoid8095 Most courts are reasonable, and will account for any legitimate reason that a father should be allowed to see their children. There is a pro-female bias, but it's not as strong as many people seem to think, and it can be overcome by reason in all but the most borderline cases. Most women aren't malicious enough to try to restrict a man from seeing their children for no good reason either.

@TheFloatingFish

4 жыл бұрын

I’m so glad I’m not alone in these fears

@Snow-sx5ev

4 жыл бұрын

Being aware of power Dynamics helps make sure you don't perpetuate them, please be strong because you'll be stronger than who raised you

@principleshipcoleoid8095

4 жыл бұрын

@@nathangamble125 "Father wants to see his children" + no reasons against it should ALWAYS result in physical and legal joint custocy. But it doesn't because femenism. P S unless woman is one that shouldn't have right for custocy because of good reason. Then of course father gets the children.

This explains a lot how my mother brought me up. I can relate to much of this. She would do things like this and then say that I was adopted; so I was lucky to get anything at all. I felt like I owed my mother. She would get very angry if I tried to show any sort of independence, and I grew up feeling like I had to earn her love. If something wasn't perfect, she yell or get angry over the slightest things. I remember once, I was supposed to read a passage of the Bible for a meeting at our Catholic Church, and I'd used a strip of paper as a book mark so I could find the passage. My mother yelled at because I hadn't used a holy card as a book mark (a holy card is kind of like a baseball card for a saint. It has a picture of the saint, and a description on the back of what he did.), something she had never expressed she wanted. I noticed how the other kids could run around and smile and joke be confident, and I realized that I wasn't allowed to do any of that. Another time, I went clothes shopping with my mother, and we were looking for shirts for me. One of the shirts I tried on had sleeves so long that they went over my hand. I lifted up my arms and laughed at the silliness of this scene. My mother then angrily screamed and made a scene over this innocent display. I grew up without any concept of the idea of privacy. She would literally check my butt to make sure I'd wiped well enough. My mother was always there, instilling fear so I would always be too afraid to rebel against her. I grew up not knowing that this wasn't normal. Our family never took vacations, and we never once went and did things like go to the movies or other fun, social things. I didn't even know that families did that until around the time I started college. I had little concept of the outside world. My mother was the only person I really even knew growing up. This video hits close to home. It's easy to see why I joined up with an abusive, controlling religious group in my 20's. Everyone in that group was brought up like I was. They taught that humanity was evil, and that we all deserved to burn in Hell for all of eternity. This message resonated with me because that's what I thought of myself. I think my mother just saw my upbringing as normal, and doesn't know what other people do. She has very little contact with the outside world, and she wants me to be the same way. My dad worked 80+ hours a week (he is a bit of a workaholic), and so he didn't even know what was going on. It wasn't until my parents divorced that he learned of my mother's "Parenting" skills. He repeatedly said he had to do "Remedial parenting". He didn't know I wasn't allowed to do anything social ever, or that I had to ask permission to as much as go to the bathroom growing up. What you said about a parent not expressing real love but just acting like you loved someone resonated with me. That's how my mother was. If I ever went outside to play, 1. I had to ask permission first, and 2. I wasn't allowed outside my yard. She watched me the whole time I played. Because of this, I really couldn't have friends growing up; so I didn't. I know this post is long, but this video has put into words what my childhood was like better than any other. I know there are people out there who had it worse growing up, but maybe I shouldn't discount the harsh parenting I got growing up. Most people were taught new and better ways to be independent. I was taught new and better ways to be dependent on my mother and how to fear her.

@Soapandwater6

4 жыл бұрын

Wishing the best for you, Aspie!

@itisdevonly

4 жыл бұрын

I'm so sorry you experienced that. It sounds really awful.

@threethrushes

4 жыл бұрын

You are already 'better' than your mother. Break the cycle. Be a better parent than your parents ever were.

@aspieatheist6040

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you everyone for the replies and the love. It helps more than you realize.

@normang3668

4 жыл бұрын

I just turned 32 years old, and only a couple of months ago I realized that I perpetually feel guilty and afraid, and that it isn't normal. It seems obvious that this is the result of abuse at the hands of my mother when I was young; she had quite literally beaten it into me that I was a disappointment, simply because I was an average kid and she wanted me to be above average; I can vivdly remember her trying to teach me high school level math when I was in Grade Three, and her growing increasingly furious when I couldn't understand it, to the pointing of repeatedly hitting me and screaming at me. Around that same age, she had once made me write thank-you cards for all of the kids that had attended my birthday party, and again had grown furious with me because my hand writing wasn't neat. . . She'd forced me to start over many times, again growing angry and hitting me, screaming at me. To this day I can't even remember the birthday party, who was there, where it was held or what we did. I just remember trying to write those cards with trembling hands and tear-filled eyes, thinking to myself, 'I wish I never had a birthday.' I'd assumed my whole life that I was constant screw-up, that I was always making mistakes even when nobody said so, and so the guilty feeling was normal for me. When I actually do make a mistake (as we all do from time to time) I beat myself up really, really badly about it, to the point of genuinely wanting to kill myself. I wouldn't be surprised if it takes me the rest of my life to uncross all of the wires in my brain, and fix the faulty programming of my parents. If it's even possible.

In the Mormon religion, we believed that there were billions of souls waiting to be born in heaven and it was our duty to marry young and have as many kids as we possibly can so those souls would have a good family. I, along with my younger siblings, was conceived not because my parents were ready (financially, emotionally, maturity-wise) or because they had a long established relationship, but to be a human trophy. I was taught that it was a privilege to be born in this family and I needed to pay back by devoting my life to the church and my parents. We were shown off for academics and talents in public, but in private were criticized for anything less than perfection (getting A- on a test, not being top of the class, not reading scripture every day etc.) In my case, we were also physically punished. If our behavior was anything but perfect, we were compared to the other perfect Mormon families who were faking it too. It was only until I meet my husband who was raised in a catholic/secular household that I realized I felt little love in my family. His family truly loved each other unconditionally even if some one drank alcohol too much, cussed, or expressed they did not believe in God, his mother still treated them with respect. My family policed each other and held each other to unrealistic expectations. Any mistake we made as individuals was a threat to our eternal family. My parents were clearly also still under the control of their own parents even as capable adults. My parents and I are on good terms now that they have also left the church in their late 40’s and can have a more unconditional relationship even though there are still times when they expect me to conform to their wants just because they say so. I love my dad and I know my dad loves me, but knowing who they are as people, I can tell that my dad actually strongly dislikes young children and probably would not have had them if he was not expected to by his Mormon parents. I used to think I wanted 8 children, now I realize I only wanted children for someone to unconditionally love me. I think I will only have 1 in the far future when my husband and I can take full responsibility and expect nothing in return.

@calebcarpenter421

4 жыл бұрын

I also grew mormon, and my family was similar. I'm sorry for what you went through, and I'm glad you found your way out.

@snappa_tv

4 жыл бұрын

I grew up Mormon as well. It appears this is unfortunately common throughout that horrid religion

@vrios6579

4 жыл бұрын

Caleb Carpenter Thank you. All my family is out except 1 sister. Sometimes I just cry out of happiness because now I finally feel I won’t be judged by my parents to just be myself. Our relationship is more honest and loving. They’ve come a really long way. Hope everything is going better for you post-Mormonism.

@vrios6579

4 жыл бұрын

Snappa I agree. I still see this dynamic play out still with my extended family. Most of my adult cousins live a double life that their parents know nothing about. The church incentivizes dishonesty and judgment in families. Hope things are going well for you.

@undeadpresident

4 жыл бұрын

Not to sound repetitive but I also was raised in a Mormon family and this is very typical of it. Mormonism leads people down a path of fakery where they do not develop psychologically because their false belief system supersedes and corrupts real self awareness and replaces it with false explanations for things. It's incredibly damaging and controlling.

"Incompetent twits" just hearing you say that in your monotone voice brought me joy.

@jacketrussell

4 жыл бұрын

So awfully English. A joy to listen to.

@TheCivildecay

4 жыл бұрын

yeah loved that :D

@jseanbrooks1

3 жыл бұрын

It's so true. I know too many bureaucracies, companies, and groups ran by "incompetent twits".

@joshc5727

3 жыл бұрын

His voice isnt montone and its rude to say so

@an8strengthkobold360

3 жыл бұрын

@@joshc5727 yes that was the wrong word. I'm gling to scroll the dictionary for a better word the return.

When I began my deconversion process, I started to listen to your videos before sleeping; they were my nighttime stories. I know it sounds weird, but your videos assured me that fear didn't have to take the best out of me and that I was not crazy nor evil for thinking what I thought. Thank you so much for your work, Mr. Trees.

@TheraminTrees

4 жыл бұрын

That is wonderful to hear. Thank you Rossana.

@user-uu2cj9ct3j

4 жыл бұрын

Same actually, I don’t think it’s weird. My brother and I left at about the same time, and ThereminTrees is something we shared.

@nathanjora7627

4 жыл бұрын

Rossana Luna It’s not weird at all, even if I didn’t understand a word of English I could still listen to him merely for how soothing and smooth his voice is.

@bitraboj722

4 жыл бұрын

I used to do the same, helped me sleep too

@neems_crassidy

4 жыл бұрын

Good on you and your brother for getting out of whatever it was. Disenthralling oneself is an unimaginably difficult undertaking. Much respect and best wishes!

This one hits home. My family has infantilized me for years. I get it from both sides: paternal and maternal. They say they want to see me. They act like they want a relationship. Once, my grandmother threatened to disinherit me if I didn't visit more. But if I try to act like an adult and set a time when we can get together, they ice me out. They only want a relationship on their terms, and their terms demand that I remain a child, give up my agency, and do whatever they want whenever they want me to do it. They can't talk with me about my adult life. They can only talk about my childhood. Nothing I do as an independent person is interesting to them in the slightest. When I voice an opinion, they might ignore me or they might become irrationally angry, inventing wrongs I haven't committed. After half my adult life, I finally realized that they don't want a relationship with me at all. They want a relationship with a child. When they reach out to that child and a 40-year-old man appears, they act confused. Like I'm a stranger. In fact, I think they've wanted to exile me for a long time, but they were waiting for an inflammatory incident they could say was my fault. They didn't want to be the bad guys. If I wasn't going to be the child they wanted, they'd use me to martyr themselves. Finally, something did happen. My grandfather died and I made a blog post saying that I hadn't had a relationship with him. My family accused me of spreading lies about my grandfather, and my grandmother told me "Nobody cares about your boring life." I decided then to discontinue contact. They construed this as me inflicting suffering upon them. As always, they saw themselves as the victims. I am happy that I don't have to deal with them anymore.

@KerryNeeds

3 жыл бұрын

Wow this post sounds like some of my family... never had it displayed like this but it’s exactly what they do. Thank you!

@Mylifestoriesmaybe

3 жыл бұрын

Honestly dude my situation isn't that much different from yours. But I'm a college student and I can't leave just yet... This shit sucks

@yordannydelvalle3301

3 жыл бұрын

I am through that problem. Truth is my parents did not have good childhood and so they giving me everything that their parents did not to them. The problem I have 22 year old age and still on my parents house. Though , I am puerto rican most spanish countries tend to be more family oriented than english speaking countries. Another challenge is my deafblindness ( usher syndrome) and still I feel like I am in 16 year old teenager still figuring out life and confuse. I am pretty a manchild kind of guy but not as the stereotypical guy who believe everybody owns him everything or something I am a fearful men who have to hide his emotion because I feel my emotion can be inmature or react in a exagerated way. I do not believe my decision making good amd I am smart enough to lead my life. My family do not want to grow and they can whine or complained about my wrongdoing and everything but they do not want to grow up for their actions. For them I am their little baby boy and sincerely it make me feel like ¿¿useless?? I have difficulty to relate to other adults . They talk about money management, relationships, jobs , family and other adult stuff. I sincerely cannot help anyone I do not have experience for it and nor I held a job in my life. I feel kinda ashamed and I try to be optimistic even though I feel sad or disturbed I surpressed those emotions because I feel like I am being " ungrateful and weak" because they are other who got it worst tham me and still managed to suceed with depression or without it and I feel pathetic. There is so much inside I need to address and resolve. My parents in part have their fault for raising like that but also I am in fought for being passive and naive thinking they have my best interest. My parents are not bad people but as any flaw human being they make mistake and have their biases.

@aganib4506

2 жыл бұрын

I am sorry that you have to go through that, it seems that your family was toxic. It is great that you cut off contact with them. I hope you find friends that can become your new family!

@bigpooper4156

2 жыл бұрын

Not even that they want a child, they want control over someone, and the easiest people to control are children

Quotes that stuck with me: "They were punished for failing a test they were designed to fail." 27:56 "Your birth wasn't a gift to you. It was your parents' gift to themselves. They gave themselves a child. To demand gratitude for a gift you give yourself is absurd." 31:23 "In Abrahamic mythology, the god character doesn't give the human race life. He gives himself a human race to rule over. He gives himself an empire." 31:49 "We mess around with some very important survival instincts when we try to shortcut children's natural caution around strangers." 34:36

@the.rest.is.confetti

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly those ones for me too

@taynahibanez9952

3 жыл бұрын

Saaaame

@lemsip207

2 жыл бұрын

I was listening to a show this week and one of the presenters had his birthday that day so one of the regular listeners wrote a variation on Happy Birthday. One of the lines was "Did you remember to thank your mother?". What for? Unless she had made him a birthday cake, took him out for lunch or bought him a nice present she doesn't need to be thanked. Some parents demand to be thanked just for giving their child life even when they didn't even raise that child or raised them but didn't care for them properly.

@lemsip207

2 жыл бұрын

I've seen this on the reality shows especially ones with has been and emerging celebrities on it. They are set daily challenges and are literally shoved into the deep end. Like Freeze the Fear with Wim Hof on the BBC where their first challenge was to jump into a hole in the ice into freezing cold water and get out once they surfaced. You would think their first challenge would have been a cold shower.

@dmwanderer9454

Жыл бұрын

31:23 saying "I didn't ask to be born" insinuates you'd choose non existence, which is an intellectually dishonest assertion. Your life IS a gift, and you can do what you wish with it, but you cannot claim you are not grateful for being given life.

"at the start of what his mother calls his 'difficult years', i.e. when he developed an independent personality" I feel this so much. Even though i tried really hard to be kind and walk on eggshells to please my narcissistic mother growing up, she still called me a "rebellious teen" and would get mad at me for reasons i didn't understand. Then whenever my distant older sister would bring her 3 year old during visits, it was like my mother was an entirely different person, praising the child and being really nice. That's when i figured out the reason why my mother hates me: *I grew up* and had a personality that differed from hers, and because narcissists hate different personalities, she tried to prevent it during my whole teen years. To any young people watching this: it's ok to be "rebellious", that's literally how you develop an independent personality; you're always going to upset some people by being yourself. Don't let your parents control you with mere words, be they abusive or not

@NotALotOfColonial_SpaghettiToG

2 жыл бұрын

i needed this reminder, thank you

@TheCuddlebun

Жыл бұрын

Well stated! Yes, I used to think I was a rebellious teenager until recently. If I looked at what I was doing that was considered rebellion, the majority of it was my need to do what my peers were doing. Only after years of clashing with my parents did I do a few stupid things that are regrettable. I probably just did them in vengeance for by age 21 I had lost hope of being able to get away from them and be an independent adult. The description I used back then was that I had to go to some extremes to cut the umbilical cord they were trying to keep in tact.

This is genuinely unsettlingly the same as my own parents. I’m still trapped in the home, without a license and with a secret bank account because they’ll take my money if I use the one under “my” name. It’s so scary in here. I’m trying desperately to get out. Every day they get more unhinged. My dad tells me my mom will “mellow out” as she gets older. I just have to “endure the bad” until then. He does nothing to help the abuse. If I stand up for myself, he punishes me for “getting her angry”. Thank you for these videos. It helps me get by.

@joudabdullah3845

3 жыл бұрын

Hey hope you’re doing okay now

@K-A5

3 жыл бұрын

I hope things are getting better for you. Little by little make your way out! 💫

@misspatvandriverlady7555

5 ай бұрын

Someone else popping in a couple years later, hoping you made it out! It is so hard to get housed without being abused (or an abuser, I guess) in our society! 😰

@mabintykoroma6614

3 ай бұрын

naw bc why do enablers say they will change 💀💀💀after all the narcissists have done?? this is my dad to a T except im 15 lol

You have changed my life. Started watching you when I was 16. And I have watched all of them multiple times. YOU RUINED MY INNOCENCE! And I am grateful.

@codekillerz5392

4 жыл бұрын

I’m sixteen now!

@juliusdepravedprince7104

4 жыл бұрын

Innocence used to be something I strived for and I could never meet the standard, but since the feeling didn't go away I made my own definition "Being a good person" and it helped

@carealoo744

4 жыл бұрын

Um... I don't even know how to begin with this comment-thread...

@taliakellegg5978

3 жыл бұрын

@@codekillerz5392 same

@victoriat8922

3 жыл бұрын

I traded out innocence for knowledge long ago, much to the dismay of my parents.

You hit the nail on the head with the "permanent state of debt"

@TheraminTrees

4 жыл бұрын

Mad isn't it Hassan. Permanent debt. Permanent punishment. What a permanent pain in the arse :8) Hope you're well my friend.

The way you're able to explain everything along with the visuals and make it understandable for anyone that might be curious during their first watch truly has me in awe. It's beautiful, absolutely beautiful.

@alphamoonman

4 жыл бұрын

I have a learning disability. I only have to watch his videos once to understand it all. That really says something about his talents in teaching others.

"Emotionally immature parents / narcissistic abuse" = God of the Bible.

@TheCivildecay

4 жыл бұрын

The movie Mother! is quite a good play on that analogy

@whatabouttheearth

3 жыл бұрын

Well, it is essentially a symbol of the patriarchal power over the household (father), the society (priests), nation (kings, politicians).

@missfefeloves

Жыл бұрын

Wow🤐

@justinaacuriouswanderer1496

11 ай бұрын

yup, deifying your gender is very narcissistic and ignorantly infantilising. Man doesn't cover his hair because he's in the "image and glory of god" in the words of Paul in 1 Cor 11:7-8. Well, guess who else doesn't have to cover? God. While the angels, the servants, cover their bodies with their wings (seraphim). My father is a very infantilising person. I was subjected to "relentless debilitating micromanagement." 10:33 I go out to the hall to get some water from the dispenser, Dad is closely watching me (already giving me the sense I'll do something wrong inevitably), then he says, "you can't do it," or "you can't do this, you'll be full. You don't know what you need." We're at the dining table, I try to scoop a bit of rice into my bowl, he tells me, "You won't be able to do it. Help her, [mom's name]!" (that's before I even try, and if I fail, it's a no-brainer. Notice we're talking about scooping some bloody rice here! Micromanagement happened to the point of me now being scared or instinctually paranoid about leaving my room and being in his proximity. I'd rather not even if I needed to. My mind stops me in a very painful debilitating way). Here's how that's related to debt. I tell him I want my mom to be independent (or me for that matter, in the sense of going out without a huge stifling interrogation of "how I'll do it on my own."). So again, I tell him I want my mom to be financially independent. He responds in a different but equivalent way to the past responses, by saying, "what else do you need? I provide you with everything." See that "else"? As in "nothing else is equivalent to what I give you," as in "I gave you so much," as in "you are indebted for the fact I took care of you." Or, more clearly, as in "what else can you do?", again, diminishing mom's ability to do and making her believe she won't be able to and needs "management" (not diminishing it out of malice, but because he seriously believes she can't. She's just an infant.) That "else" says so much. It says two things, "what else can you do?" and that therefore due to your incapacity, you have to be grateful. And he does say those things literally. Whenever I try to look for something independently, he takes it as a personal insult, a gesture of ungratefulness to what he gives me (which is what most parents should give if they love their children anyway), but more than that, a gesture of me believing I can do something on my own or have my own "personhood" (which to him is bad and even simply untrue). To the point that now the least thing a non-parental figure gives me makes me happy and in an instinctual state of the need to reciprocate with so much, so much more than I am given. Like I've been offered something so great (although it's a small gesture or flower or promise or hug) that I need to reciprocate because in not "reciprocating" and in wanting to have my own personhood and independence, I was trained to see myself as ungrateful and even wrong about my capacity. This video has made me see so much... So much trauma (that made me feel seriously ill) whose connections I couldn't quite make without feeling like I'm just spewing hackneyed, overused aphorisms from cliché childhood psychology or just wanted justification for my behavior like a "victim" (I looked at myself in contempt whenever I tried to see myself as one, because, well, you know.) I even feel horrible and as if my pride was hurt about realizing I might be a victim, because I was trained I "can't"... Get out of it. (whatever it is, not just even victimhood). So there's this spiraling never-ending vortex of "I can't" and they're so debilitating. Treating your child as an infant is like sentencing them to death.

Reminds me of the ancient Norse tale of Baldur and Frigg. The only thing she cherished from her loveless marriage to Odin was her son Baldur. Being the goddess of foreknowledge and wisdom, she prophesied that he would die a needless death. Trying to prevent this, Frigg cast a powerful spell that made him invulnerable to all threats, physical or magical, and pledged to protect him forever. However, the spell left Baldur with an inability to feel anything, which he resented. She insisted it was for his own good. Eventually he was driven to kill his mother, but couldn't go through it it, instead vowing to despise her for all time. The gods amused themselves by trying weapons on Baldur and seeing them fail to do any harm. It wasn't until the trickster god Loki discovered his one weakness, mistletoe, and deceived the blind god Hod into throwing a mistletoe spear at Baldur, killing him. Moral of the story: if someone offers you this deal, don't take it.

This whole infantalization thing always bothered me about christianity. Why would a god want us to stay completely dependent on him, rather than teaching us to be self sufficient? Whenever I thought about parenthood it became obvious to me that a good parent would do their best to help their child become an independent adult. So why is god the 'good father' for doing the opposite?

@pansepot1490

4 жыл бұрын

The metaphor of sheep and shepherd explains it all, I think. After all the god figure has been modeled by “shepherds” who want to continue to milk their “flock”.

@caribbeanman3379

4 жыл бұрын

@@pansepot1490 Exactly! The god character wants his worshipers to be forever dependent on him so that he can forever "milk" praise and gratitude toward him, from them.

@musiqal333

4 жыл бұрын

Yes! Facts!

@spiritualthinker2

4 жыл бұрын

*Why would a god want us to stay completely dependent on him, rather than teaching us to be self sufficient?* If God is the ultimate standard of good, everything He does is good by default, and everything He does is to our benefit (even the stuff that we think is "hurting" us) and not His benefit, then why would anyone not want to be completely dependent on Him?

@Oswlek

4 жыл бұрын

I'm not sure if you are outlining the position or defending it, but I'm rebutting the latter. *If God is the ultimate standard of good, everything He does is good by **_definition_* Correct, with the important amendment. *and everything He does is to our benefit (even the stuff that we think is "hurting" us) and not His benefit* This, however, does not follow. All you've done is defined god as being good, you haven't shown that he actually is or that there is some benefit to our pain. Definitions are just communicative tools; establishing or changing one does not extend to reality.

I'm 33 years old and I'm back at my parents house after 4 years living abroad (lost my job and then pandemic kicked in). All my life, until today, my mother enters the bathroom without permission and keeps on asking if I need help to wash my hair (like I have some disability). I told this to my "therapist" after expressing how verbally and physically abusive my mother always has been and she said " but don't you think your mother is showing that she cares?" WTF!

@sabrinasjourney

9 ай бұрын

Get a new therapist.

@ElliBeenie

7 ай бұрын

Damn. Not every situation can be solved by reframing things and other mental gymnastics. Find a therapist that has actual competence in helping clients establish healthy boundaries with abusive relatives. Your current one certainly hasn’t.

@user-vl7vk3ne6y

5 ай бұрын

Funniest thing saw in a movie The rapist = therapist Run away from bad advice

@Frau.P

4 ай бұрын

Therapists are so bad, i know many things like that. Its actually scary as hell

I needed this. My christian relatives always talk about the oppression of women as a good thing, rooted in "love". It has always frustrated me. Thank you.

@NIHIL_EGO

4 жыл бұрын

I'm tired of people using love as a justification.

@DrownedInExile

4 жыл бұрын

@@cocococop6082 /Eyeroll Flaunt your trite conspiracy theories and religious drivel elsewhere.

@pantsenfuego9986

3 жыл бұрын

Many females are raised entitled and without moral guidance. Example: at-will abortion as a “ right” That’s not a humane right, it’s robbing someone else of a chance at life.

@matheusarnaud2574

3 жыл бұрын

@@pantsenfuego9986 ?????

@pantsenfuego9986

3 жыл бұрын

Matheus Arnaud yes, That’s exactly what I said. Can’t handle? Get a grip on yourself, dude.

This is so insightful. Being a Jehovah's Witness my entire life, we were always talked down to. Now, with the monthly religious streaming service, anyone can see how members are spoken to condescendingly, as if we were 5 years old. Basic words are defined, speakers speak slowly and pause often, basic illustrations are used as if they're needed to explain such "difficult" material, etc. No wonder I was slow to develop! Now I see my nieces act half their age. The organization just wants to create duty-bound, docile followers who are easy to control. Boundaries & privacy are not respected--not even in a sexual context.

@TheraminTrees

4 жыл бұрын

The JW broadcasts are jaw-droppingly patronising aren't they. Watching Stephen Lett's grotesque gurning, you'd think he was reading fairytales to kindergarten. The first time I saw him speaking, I wondered if that bizarre spectacle alone was repulsive enough to get some members recoiling and thinking about what they'd signed up to.

@moocat1060

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheraminTrees I'm crying right now. It because you understand in extreme detail the way we are treated. I use to think I was the only one having these thoughts in the background of is this manipulation? I'll I can say is thank you!

"Cartoonish performances of what she thought maternal love looked like" Bruh.

This immediately brought to my mind the christian ideal of having "childlike faith". Seems rather telling.

@fuqupal

3 жыл бұрын

Or how governments wants its population to be infantile

I remember telling my therapist, I wished my parents were dead when in reality all I really needed is restricted contact with clear boundaries

"As if they did you some favour. They didn’t. Before you were conceived, you weren’t some potential person waiting in the wings, hoping for life. There was no ‘you’. Your birth wasn’t a gift to you. It was your parents’ gift to themselves. They gave themselves a child. To demand gratitude for a gift you give yourself is absurd. (...) An act of birth or creation is nothing to be grateful for. It’s a completely self-serving act on the part of the parent. It’s what parents do for their children once they’re born that counts. And even then, many of the things often characterised as gifts to the child are actually parental duties. It’s no gift to children to feed them, clothe them, shelter them, protect them, nurture them. Those are just basic responsibilities the parents took on when they decided to have children." Yes, especially the last 3 sentences. You're a genius

I wait patiently every two to three months for these. I go to bed with these playing in the background, you're the best quality atheist KZreadr. I am and will always be a fan of your work.

@pyriticbatman88

4 жыл бұрын

Same here he’s got such a calming voice!

This seems like the people who infantilize other are narcissists. The narcissistic parent, boss, authority figure, etc.

@claudiacastillo5898

4 жыл бұрын

Aaron exactly! My ex narc therapist infantilized me so she could keep me in therapy dependent of her opinion. I left 2 sessions after, but the damage of her abuse was devastating.

@Code7Unltd

4 жыл бұрын

Exactly. The boss of my former job treated everyone like children despite a good amount of them being competent adults or seniors in some cases. He was a power tripper (His name was Shane Holmberg) that is a boss for a branch of a cerebral palsy research nonprofit (UCP North Bay) that focuses more on secure waste disposal services than actual cerebral palsy research. I haven't able to find a job since then (I've been hoarding recycling from trips on the street to sell to Recology later), but I can't find where they place is now since they moved from Cordelia further into Fairfield (if they even still exist).

@peterwang5660

4 жыл бұрын

@@claudiacastillo5898 That sounds terrible, hope you've healed most or all of it.

@EmoBearRights

4 жыл бұрын

Nasaleum No.

@EmoBearRights

4 жыл бұрын

You're strawmanning a broad based movement.

The statement you made about denying and repressing sexuality leading to an environment where molesters thrive is so true. It’s tragic. In my experience, I couldn’t verbalize what was happening to me because I didn’t understand it, yet I still felt enough shame that I never tried. I knew something was wrong, and that I despised how it made me feel; but I also knew that talking about genitals in any capacity was forbidden. It was a lose-lose situation. A part of me always knew I would be disbelieved if I came forward. I was also terrified that the person abusing me would make my life even worse if I did. But even if I had been believed, it felt like the fate of my abuser rested squarely on my shoulders. I would be destroying a person’s life, and their family’s life, forever. The thought that it was my abuser’s fault for choosing to commit such depraved acts never even crossed my mind. I’m 29 now, and the C-PTSD symptoms have reached their boiling point. I started having flashbacks a few years ago, and it feels like I am a shell of who I once was. Even with therapy, healing has been a slow and painful process. The mental scars I endured have taken a drastic toll on my life and my conception of self. Infantilization can ruin a person’s life.

@misspatvandriverlady7555

5 ай бұрын

A terrible crime was committed against you by someone who knew better, aided and abetted by people who wanted to own you like a literal baby for life. It makes total sense that you have CPTSD as a result. Hopefully it helps to read a stranger say this. ❤

I love when you say “god character” rather than god. It makes all the difference!

"hoping for respect, rather than expecting it" struck me the most. thank you for this video

"Become as a little child..." No. Grow up, become an adult. Then decide your path without undue influence.

I left my parents home 2 years ago. Before boarding the plane my mother cried because she wouldn't have anyone to be co-dependant on anymore and I cried because I was finally free. I've cut off talking with her for my own reasons and am currently in therapy for her abuse but I'd rather have nothing and be financially broke than live under her care for one more day. The emotional abuse is real and this was very informative, thank you.

“They look after sheep so long as they are useful” YALL DONT EVEN KNOW HOW HARD I SLAMED THAT LIKE AND SHARE BUTTON

I relate to the example about the boy bathing himself very much. I'm 20 years old and was raised with strict rules against privacy, boundaries, and independence. I wasn't allowed to want time alone, change my clothes in private, or lock doors because if I was hiding my body, it meant I was doing something wrong. Maybe I had a tattoo or piercing I wasn't allowed to get, and if that wasn't the case, I should have no problem with my mom walking in while I change. If I had to lock the door while taking a shit, that meant I was hiding something. Maybe I was secretly smoking weed, or drinking from a secret stash of alcohol I kept in the bathroom. Maybe I was possessed by perversion to watch porn and masturbate every time I stepped into the bathroom. For some reason privacy and boundaries was always refered to as "keeping secrets from your mother," and she saw it as a threat. I never knew you had to knock on people's doors before entering until I visited a friend's house for the first time. And the example about the girl with the dove tattoo. I was never able to dress myself growing up until I stopped wearing things that I didn't buy by myself with my own money. If I pointed out a pair of shoes I liked, I was told they look manly and will be ugly on me. If I wanted to wear a t shirt with a cool design on it, I was told I was too young and would look "grown" with it on instead of something more childish, cute, and flattering. If my mom picked out clothes I didn't like, I had to explain what I didn't like about it so she could find something similar. If I simply thought it was ugly, that didn't matter because she didn't think it was ugly. But if I liked something she didn't, I wasn't allowed to buy it. When (at around 18 years old) I started wearing clothes I felt more comfortable in, my mom told me I was being rebellious and disrespectful. She thinks I'm going through a late rebellious teen phase in my twenties and I'm going out of my way to look offensive just to spite her.

Please cover adultification, spousification, and parentification as well. I'm super curious what you have to say about the other role dynamics. Great video as always!

My sister has been living in a house left to my parents for 35 years, or since she was in her mid-twenties. She has paid almost no rent for all these years, while my mother has paid the property tax, appliance repairs, electric and water bills as if she's a real landlord. My mother has also paid to get her car fixed, and replacement cars when needed. Last year she paid out more than a thousand dollars when her dog was attacked by another and needed surgery. My mother takes my sister on beach vacations, pays for her hotel rooms when she goes to weddings out of town, and basically just bleeds money at her. My sister is an obese infant who has held part-time jobs her entire life and believes that she cares about Mom more than any of us and does more than any of us for her while bleeding her of money she should be using to care for my father, who has dementia, and herself. My sister has never saved a dime, and when my mother encouraged her to buy the house she's squatted in for 35 years for half the market value, could not come up with a down payment and has bad credit so can't get a bank loan-- so my mother will probably end up giving her the house, and then continue to pay the bills. My sister turned 62 last year and instantly signed up for Social Security, assuring that she will be a financial dependent for my mother for as long as they both live. This is the very definition of infantilisation, as my sister will be utterly helpless when my mom is gone. This has been explained to my mother by her other children for four decades, but nothing ever changes. It's heartbreaking.

@arf101088

4 жыл бұрын

though this isnt exactly what theramin explained in the video, it still demonstrates the same concept - the parent remaining in a higher-up role throughout the entire relationship. but rather than the parent demanding that the child remains obedient, the child demands the parent to continue to parent, even when the child is capable of living an independent life.

@PeninsulaPaintings

4 жыл бұрын

Yup, my mother does this - I've broken away a bit, but I'm still under her thumb at nearly 27 years old. She has convinced me that I'm helpless without her, and not smart enough to do things on my own. I have no clue how to go about taxes, bills, mortgages, getting good insurance, getting a loan, running a business if I wanted to, and other essential adult things. I live in a house she owns, and she talks about buying a unit for me in the future, because she has all but admitted she's lost hope that I'll be able to earn one myself. It has led me down a path of panic attacks and a suffocatingly small comfort zone. I can't trust my own decisions; as she scrutinizes every one of them, and she's constantly doing things for me without teaching me how it's done. I didn't even learn how to use a washing machine until I was 25, or cook for myself until I was 20. She calls me dense or slow if I mess up something, picks out my clothes for events, and still tells me how to act in public for things like interviews and whatnot; as if I'm a kindergartner on her first day. Jokes on her though, I've recently made the independent decision to get myself vaccinated despite her ridiculous anti-vax views. So, slowly...i'm crawling out of her grip.

@Zeeno

4 жыл бұрын

What you're describing is called "economic out-patient care". Its when a parent provides economic support when their child should already be out of the 'hospital'. Kids like this end up being under achievers and doing little for themselves or society

@johnjamele

4 жыл бұрын

They tried this on all five of us, but only one other sibling has remained somewhat financially dependent. Sadly, my sister's daughter has gone down the same path of being tied financially to her grandmother- cars, student loan payments, vet bills... and when the rest of us tell her that she has to stop she replies "I do things for all of you, I WANT to." She then promises to stop, stops nothing, and openly lies about it. I have no idea what my sister and her daughter are going to do when Mom and Dad pass, because they've never had to take care of themselves.

@Zeeno

4 жыл бұрын

@@johnjamele If i were you id be setting my boundaries now... you dont want her to think you inherit that responsibility

My parents infantlise me simply because I'm disabled. I'm in the spectrum and though there are times I don't understand some things, they act like I'm too innocent to think right or that I'm confused because I'm disabled. In reality we are just self learning about ourselves by ourselves but parents keep telling us that we are too young or mentally young to think and such.

So called God: You're a sinner, weak and in need of continuous guidance. ie You need me. Pray to me. Self Actualized individual: Nah, I'm fine. So called God: Wait, that's illegal!

@Benzufication

4 жыл бұрын

Really? So that's God? I had no idea... You do realize that the real God is none of those things, right?

@jackkraken3888

4 жыл бұрын

@@Benzufication The 'real God'? Did you meet him or something?

@Benzufication

4 жыл бұрын

@@jackkraken3888 Not personally, but anyone can know Him personally. What I'm saying is that I know God personally, even though we haven't physically met. It's more like we're penpals or online friends. Point is, you can learn the nature of God by the observation of the principles of the world and how it functions, and any God who can be so petty as to be abusive, oppressive, or else pathetic, that kind of God cannot even compare to the real God, who by nature would be far above all of those things in a benign way.

@jackkraken3888

4 жыл бұрын

@@Benzufication That's a nice thought. However there is no way to know that there is a true God. And there there are multiple often conflicting religions that tell you they know, but they don't truly know either. It's sadly a matter of faith and what religion you are brought up with and neither are strong evidence for a supreme being. They are anecdotal at best. Furthermore many people talk about the voice in their head and yet few can distinguish that voice between their own internal voice or some form of mental illness or their flavor of God. Regarding the principles of the world is not a good example because we have never seen a world being made, there is no rule that states a world cannot be made without a supreme being. And as of yet there is no good evidence that only a God can make one. I wish it was made more clearly which God is 'true', for the supreme being to make one perfect miracle for the entire world to see, not just his people. That would help tremendously. The sad thing is that for many people it's easy for them to see their religion as true based in such weak evidence like popularity of based on a religious book that supports their beliefs which was made by the book itself. It's circular reasoning at best. If you think your faith is based on strong faith/evidence then you should try watching a few videos on the athiest experience. Maybe you will find that you faith is not nearly as solid as you think it is.

@Benzufication

4 жыл бұрын

@@jackkraken3888 Sorry for the delay, where I live my last comment was a little past my regular bedtime so I thought I'd wait until tomorrow to make my next comment. I'll start with your last point: the atheist experience. I personally have watched the atheist experience and more than a few atheist youtubers, each as intelligent as you would suppose and each strong in their atheism. Personally, I love listening to atheists because it gives me a glimpse of someone's angle other than my own, and finding a way to bring together what I believe and the points that other people make (if they're good points) is what I believe any diligent truthseeker would do. So yes, I have watched a few videos on the atheist experience and am fully aware of the need for evidence to base one's own belief in. Fortunately for me my God is really good at providing strong evidence, at least as far as I've experienced. Your next point is that it is impossible to distinguish whether or not there is a "true" God. This is simply not true. The mere observation of the world in a scientific lens, with open mindedness is the gateway between the truthseeker and the knowledge of God. We start with something that God gives us and work from there to find if what we believe is true or if not, what parts are not true and why. Any person who simply listens to different ideas and tests to see which work and why can simply find out which God is true based on what things science can prove. Science has not disproved the true God in any way, just dogma and "tribalism/partisan beliefs." Learning truth from an untainted lens will always lead someone to a glimpse of God's truth, because truth in itself is profitable and will lead the truthseeker to sincere, logical insights, all of which are things that any true God would be comprised of and support if He existed. Also, I have observed that there are two kinds of atheists. The first is an atheist who wishes that a living, just God existed but just does not believe due to lack of evidence. The second is a bitter form of atheist, who would rather there be no God at all even if it was possible that there existed a real, just one. Due to your statement of "that would help tremendously," that leads me to believe that you are more of the first, righteous kind of atheist, at least as far as that and the "that's a nice thought" statement goes. The real God is a genius. He knows that not everyone who is religion loves God and not everyone who isn't is wicked. As far as evidence goes, God proves the noble pursuits of men and topples unrighteous systems. He stands for truth, and the fact that truth wins in the end is the working of God (because think about it: does truth HAVE to win?). He doesn't care if you're christian or atheist, so long as you are willing to see the world from a pure, original viewpoint and do good things for others and mankind. If you really need more evidence than that, why don't you just ask?

As a Nigerian, I believe the entire country is infantilized, by parents, religious organizations, politicians, cultural practices etc. Taking back control, one day at a time.

Thank you for the part about partner sleeping arrangements at parents. That one contributed greatly to the hardest breakup of my life. My partner and I met at university, she used to be a Jehovah's witness but her parents and brothers still were. The first time I met her parents, I had to pretend I was "just a friend" and that we were taking a trip together as such. Im not sure they believed us - everyone played along. Before leaving, we spent a night at her parents' house and, of course, were in different bedrooms. Some weeks later, we made our relationship open (to them, it was open to our friends and my family before). To their credit, her family was very friendly, accepted me at their house and we had good times together, never having a real argument. I'd made it clear from the start I wasnt interested in their religion and I didnt engage in fights about it either - despite many weird moments, especially the whole creationism stuff I encounted then for the first time: living in France, I didnt know at 21 that anyone in the world still believed it to be 7000 years old or so, nor all the other nonsense. For the following months and years, whenever we'd visit her parents' place (which was still her official home for about half that time), we'd have to sleep in different beds. What I found very weird about my partner then was how much she still accepted her parents' religion and the limitations it put on her. She never complained about those restrictions and disliked it when I seemed to be ... unhappy about them. The actual crisis happened after her brother had gotten married. During the wedding, the house was full and we had to camp out in the garden. We could then share a tent (!), but her younger brother was also there, so it didnt really feel so ground breaking. Soon after, her parents wanted to take us all on a trip for a week or weekend, I forget which. It was a really nice gesture and Im sure there were no nasty intentions. At that point, I actually got along pretty well with the family, especially the father. However, this planned trip lead to the worst fight me and my partner ever had. We were chatting about the trip happily, but I happened to mention I'd dislike the fact his brother and his wife would get to share a room but we would not. After all I said, we were together for longer than they had been - only we werent married. She took this as a criticism of her family as a whole, and to cut it short, it became a quite nasty scene - I was on the defensive, trying to explain away my dislike of the situation being unrelated to my appreciation of the family itself ; she kept accusing me of hating her family. It was bad. We didnt exactly break up over this fight, but it didnt take long afterwards. There were some other problems I wont get into, but looking back on it with alot of time having passed, this fight was as much of a single-event cause as any. And at the bottom of it is the fact we were disconnected on the sleeping arrangements at her parents' : me finding it disrespectful in a way to our relationship, she being fine with it.

@TheraminTrees

4 жыл бұрын

Yes, it's difficult isn't it when one partner defends unreasonable behaviour on behalf of their family members - especially when they're also being mistreated but don't see it. Twisting justified complaints about mistreatment into expressions of 'hate' is such common deflection - the central point gets completely lost.

@juju-been

4 жыл бұрын

Jesus. This would be me and my boyfriend if I was still religious and obedient to my parents. Scary to think about.

@DrownedInExile

4 жыл бұрын

@narsil1984 Good on you for standing your ground.

@narsil1984

4 жыл бұрын

@Moth’s Mummy We didnt have the budget as students back then. And it wasnt really the reality of the sleeping arrangement that caused the argument, more me being a bit insulted by the implied relative value of a short but married versus an unmarried relationship and her taking offense at criticism of her family, as I think she always supposed I disliked them because of our fundamental difference in belief structure: their "strong" belief vs my pragmatical atheism ; her entire family relatively simple background (she was the first uni-educated member of her family actually) versus my middle class family where everyone is/was expected to have some sort of university degree by the end of their studies.

@narsil1984

3 жыл бұрын

@Lexi 93 Pretty judgemental, based on the account I gave tbf. I dont think I said I didnt respect their wishes, we abided by them for years. I dont know where you're from, but these sorts of things are viewed as pretty extreme where I live(d). This was my first exposure to religious extremists and while I got along with them on a personal level, I can reflect now on the strain this stuff caused. Besides, it wasnt aboug "banging" at their place and I didnt make it a major issue. As I think Ive said, it came up as a discussion about *feeling* this arrangement was putting a ranking on relationship with or without marriage. Again, if you're from a place that considers marriage a very big deal, this may be something you agree with. Here, many people never marry and living together for years or decades without marriage is no problem anymore to the vast majority of people. And to reiterate the key point: it never was about having to "do" anything specific at their place, it was me feeling that their attitude towards our relationship didnt consider it as valuable as a married relationship, I expressed those feelings (not a desire to demand we bang at her parents' house) and that lead to an argument once.

Beautiful read of the Eden myth. Though I stopped having interest in the Bible as religious text years ago, I'm super into the Bible as literature. In my former religion (raised a JW), the serpent is interpreted to be Satan and his promise that Adam and Eve will not die upon eating the fruit is considered the first lie ever told. But, like, it isn't? They don't die and they do gain some sort of knowledge; they at least realize they're naked. It's painfully clear that the Biblical god just wants mindless obedience in so many places, especially in Genesis. In the Abraham bit when he almost sacrifices his son, god doesn't punish him for not understanding what was expected. Abraham is rewarded for something vile because the morals aren't important, only blind obedience. There are SO many stories like that.

@Soapandwater6

4 жыл бұрын

Glad you escaped JW.

i could never pin point why my parents' constant reminders of who i was as a child and repetition of how much they've done for me was so uncomfortable. this and all of the content about religion's function in abusive relationships its so helpful.

@TheraminTrees I must tell you straight up: This. Is. My. Life. Even now. 😔😔😔 I myself will be 30 this year, and I am still dealing with infantilization from my strongly loving and fundamentally religious mother. My mother is an intrinsically good person, but she still has a very hard time respecting boundaries with me. Instead of treating her role as a temporary guardian, she treats her role as parent as an eternal ruler over literally every damn aspect of my life, no matter how miniscule. Just like the biblical god Yahweh. I can't count the number of times from my childhood until now when she tells me or my brothers (minors) that "she gave me life" or that it's my duty to care for her in old age. She has even told me that she should buy a house in my name in the future and that I must live in it with my future family and with her in it so I can take care of her. Talk about disrespectful! I myself have gotten into clashes with her over my tattoos and piercings. Less so now, but when my brothers bring it up, it becomes a controversial conversation. For only three years of my life, when I went away to medical school overseas, I actually lived my authentic life, without the trappings of religion and religious expectations and hover parenting. Now that I am back home with my parents doing my clinical rotations, I feel like I am in a restrictive cage again, with undue pressure and policing from my mother and the church that she frequents. It sickens me to the core. I don't have much of a social life like I used to, and sometimes I cry about it because it hurts. My life was rich and free when I was away. My life was my own to do as I saw fit. All my responsibilities were my own, and also my rights and freedoms. Like a true adult. This video perfectly illustrates my life (I've literally thought many of the points you raised here) and many others who feel chained to their parents, their social circles, their religious/political/whatever communities. When I gain my financial independence being done with medical school and stuff, I will seek therapy for myself. I know it. Parents are temporary guardians, not eternal rulers. Full stop. And each person has the right to self-actualize. 💯. If I could meet you and QS. You guys are amazing ♥️♥️♥️

@threethrushes

4 жыл бұрын

You sound intelligent and empathetic: my advice is break free. Parents who don't respect boundaries when you were a child, won't when you are an adult. This channel is a form of 'knowledge' as therapy.

@musiqal333

4 жыл бұрын

@@threethrushes You made an excellent point. When I am fully capable, I will do that. Break free. But I also look at the upbringing of my brothers and fear the same for them (even though they're going through adolescence crises of their own now and being so unruly; ironically). Intellectually I know what I have to do. Emotionally it can be hard to untangle things. But you are so right, being authentic to self is essential.

@rationalmartian

4 жыл бұрын

You are too easy on your mother. Sounds like she has trained you well. Good grief man. You are a thirty year old. When exactly is a break though going to magically happen? Until YOU stand up for yourself and sort it out it will not happen. At thirty you should already be well distanced. How the hell are you supposed to manage a reasonable healthy relationship, let alone look after a family with children. You sound like you have things on ten year plans. In JUST ten years you will be forty. I would be seriously be thinking about upping my game. You would be better to move out and be homeless. At least you would be on your own initiative and be learning how to deal with shit in the real world. To be honest it sounds to me like you have it nice and easy, so it is even easier to make excuses and put shit off. Just move out and go work on a building site for twelve months or so. You will be a different man. You will be a man if you stand on your own two feet and deal with life not having to lean on parents. BTW. You would likely do your brothers the biggest favour by being a grown adult bloke yourself. Just imagine knowing shit enough to be able to seriously advise them.

@fionafiona1146

4 жыл бұрын

I apreceate the way you want to keep watch over your siblings and want to aid their progress but building parallel (social/financial) support and allowing them to see it are actionable steps until you are free to cut connections that don't serve you.

@TheraminTrees

4 жыл бұрын

Hi Lloyd. Yes, I think there's often that end goal in mind: 'You have to look after me in my old age!' Nope, we don't. If they'd treated us well, we probably would've done everything we could for them - voluntarily. But by trying to ensnare us in a false sense of debt, they lose that natural good will. Depending on the severity of the manipulation, they will sometimes lose their offspring permanently - as my biological mother did three years ago. I wish you well with your self-actualisation!

37:43 - This is so hard... The answer is no-contact, and it makes my heart break because I've wanted normalcy for so long I've tried to engineer it all on my own but I can't just make it happen. I can't make the relationship normal and healthy. I know that I am my best self when I am not around them. I'm so much happier and healthier, but the guilt kept me going back.

@LeoMidori

3 жыл бұрын

I was much in the same boat with my parents, but they're very damaged people and I can't be around them. I haven't seen my mother for just over a year now, and it was sadly the best decision I had to make for myself.

@bathombre9739

3 жыл бұрын

@leo, same, I finally cut them of, extremely toxic and I cant think of one good thing they bring

The moment I get an alert about a new TheraminTrees video, I come a-runnin'!

@musiqal333

4 жыл бұрын

Me too.

@steggyweggy

4 жыл бұрын

Doesn’t everyone!?

@musiqal333

4 жыл бұрын

@Donkey Bellerin Me too! I must admit do the same thing, even when I have a few hours of sleep time. I can listen to his works for hours!

@F00ls44

4 жыл бұрын

Me too thank you very much for your essential work

@GiftSparks

4 жыл бұрын

@Donkey Bellerin Oh my -- yes-- you can melt in his voice!

This is the first video that hit too close to home. I'm almost 30 and I didn't realize that this is how I've been living.

@yalfaharr4395

4 жыл бұрын

Hope you make the transition out of it safely

@ViewingChaos

4 жыл бұрын

Wishing you all the best in escaping- recognising the problem is half the battle.

@bigrims5239

3 жыл бұрын

Danm

This topic came up at a wonderful time for me. I'm at the start of a break from college in which I'll be spending a lot of time with my family, and in recent past years I've experienced a few similar tactics. This has thankfully improved in recent months, as it becomes more and more clear that I am competent, but in either case, it is nice to get some perspective on the problems that used to baffle me ("I gave you life!"), and hopefully shut them down if they come up again. Thank you for all of your work.

@chloerogers9488

4 жыл бұрын

This helped me for the same reason. I actually considered staying in my dorm even though I’d be in a ghost town. Upon viewing this, I feel a lot calmer. It won’t change behavior, but my reaction will at least come from a place of understanding.

In order to start to mentally break away from my narcissistic abusive mother (since I couldn't quite move out yet) I came up with this question on my own: "If she was just any other woman and NOT my mother, would I have anything to do with her?" My answer was "No." And so I started to break away. I didn't care that she was my mother, she was an abuser that if she weren't my mother I'd have nothing to do with so I lived life that way. My family could never understand.

I feel like my family infantilises me because I’m the youngest and I’m disabled. They treat me like I’m still a kid, and like I can’t do anything on my own. Or like I know nothing about the world.

@yoodeet6338

3 жыл бұрын

Surely sounds like it. Maybe you can talk to them if they are reasonable.

@lauratheexplorer6390

3 жыл бұрын

Just because you have a disability doesn’t mean you’re a freakin child. Demand their respect & for them to treat you like adult. Like you deserve. Take care

@FoximusPrime1

2 жыл бұрын

Damn, I'm in the same boat as you!

@NA-AN

2 жыл бұрын

Even if you are disabled, so what? Even if you have severe autism or something, you still deserve respect and not to be patronized.

@NA-AN

2 жыл бұрын

@@Reignor99 My what are you suggesting Mr/Ms/Mrs/whateverelse.Sloop?

"Young Lady" is still like knives on a chalkboard for me, I was only called that as a way of saying I was acting like a child when I should have been acting like an adult, even with age-appropriate behavior (like getting into a verbal argument with my big brother when I was 10)

Just what I need while under quarantine.

@youronlinegirlfriend5508

4 жыл бұрын

Good luck

@musiqal333

4 жыл бұрын

From COVID-19? Definitely supportive therapy and TheraminTrees/QualiaSoup. 💯

@Claudia-sk1ls

4 жыл бұрын

Wishing you all the best.

@bmc3682

4 жыл бұрын

@rj zander does the fact that people die from the flu mean that the people dying/suffering from consequences of covid don't matter? That their preventable deaths are irrelevant? If we don't take action, the hospitals will get overrun, staff will get sick, other medical procedures will be severely limited, etc. Covid is more contagious than influenza, so it spreads easily. And no, it's not only old people that are at risk. People with asthma, diabetes, COPD, and a lot of other parts of the population are at risk. And even if only old people were at risk (age>50), would that mean that their deaths don't matter? That these people are expendable? My cousin came back from italy a few days ago (we live in bavaria in germany). He came in contact with somone who was infected. Now everyone in their skiing group is sick at home, hoping to get better soon. He and his friends are young people (18-25 years old) who are active and eat healthy. A few of them have high fever and sleep a lot. I hope none of them gets pneumonia. My mother has asthma, my grandma has cancer, one of my closest friends has asthma and multiple allergies - and 1 in 5 cases is severe or deadly, and if the hospitals are overrun, the mortality will rise, because the quality of care will get worse and there won't be enough lung ventilators, etc. Of course 80% of cases are mild, but we still need to flatten the curve to reduce the burden on our health care systems and help those at risk.

@bmc3682

4 жыл бұрын

@The Sight of Sound 1. Yeah, kinda. Depends on the effect on the reproduction rate of the people affected. (E.g. Cancer in old people doesn't really matter in that regard, they usually don't reproduce at that age anymore) 2. If we compare "bussiness as usual" (no protective measures) and protective measures (slowing down the infection), the latter could at least help flatten the curve. The impact on the economy probably depends on the likelihood of reinfection (how long people produce antibodies) and severity. Unfortunetaly, we can't say too much about that yet. If we don't contain covid, it might start to mutate and become a disease like the flu, which comes up every year. I we manage to get rid of this strain of corona, we might prevent future outbreaks. With its longer incubation period, it also spreads more easily, so it might impact the economy in the future, too. But I'm no scientist, so I don't know that much about pros and cons. And to be honest the situation is inconvenient right now. My final exam is this summer, and I'd hate to postpone it.

7:35 hit me hard my father used to this whenever i would reject his unhelpfull help he would freak out lashing out at me either saying the exact same words "if you dont want help with x then i wont help with anything". or just tear down the door as he once did. he threatned to break every thing i care for and told me to open the door in the end i opened out of fear and he seperated the door from its frame told me i was abusing my privacy (all i did was not listen to one of his crazy requests and went to my room in protest). and took the door to his room which i later reattached it myself and when he tried to help with that he acted surprised when i was angry and would never accept help from him. luckly my mother and him divorced last year and he lives out of my state since he is amoung other things a tour guide and now he is stranded there because of corona all of the flights to my country are cancelled so he wont come here soon. sadly when he is here i have to pretend to be in good terms with him or he could say that i reject him as a parent and wont pay my mother which she needs to be able to take care of us (my mother is ok we have our differences but she isnt in nay way abusive) edit: my dad seems to be hitting every single mark he consistently witheld credit if i failed a test it was because i havent trained well enough the only way to train well enough was to train 10 hours a day with him or if he was unknowledgeable on the subject a private tutor. If i succeeded he attributed it to luck since i obviously havent trained enough to be prepared for the test so i clearly just got lucky and he kept being surprised of how much my "luck" was holding on and kept telling me it wont last forever. Edit2: while he did scare me a bit of the outside world he didnt seem to have a problem with the idea i will one day leave home and be on my own sexuality was never a subject at home and he didnt wallow in the past because he didnt do anything my sister told me that he told her that i wasnt agreed upon that my mother wanted me but he didnt (my mother confirmed its lies and looking at the record my dad lies a lot my mother doesnt) he was at work in most of my childhood and admitted to me later it was a choice to avoid me my mother said he constantly disregarded me in early childhood and wanted things with my mother to go on as it was before . so my dad has no good deeds of the past to hold over my head.

@undeadpresident

4 жыл бұрын

Sounds like a fucking nightmare!

@almogz9486

4 жыл бұрын

@@undeadpresident it was

"It's not up to targets why they should be entitled to basic consideration" Good luck convincing my mother about that one. My greatest fear is that I will be like she is.

Hello, As a young adult, I am absolutely terrified of parenthood. There is so much that I could do wrong and I could end up ruining that individual's life without realising it. Your video helped me put some ideas in order, thank you. I have friends that need to see this video given their situation. Is there a way to get a transcript so I can translate it in French for them ? (or if someone is already working on subtitles, when can we expect them ?) Thank you for your work !

@musiqal333

4 жыл бұрын

@Jakub Klimczak sometimes certain languages are not available as text for some of the videos. I know. I've tried with many of his videos. Some have subtitles in one ensemble of languages. Others don't. 🤷🏾‍♂️

@alphamikeomega5728

4 жыл бұрын

@Jakub Klimczak I think subtitles are only automatic where they're in the language of the video. For foreign-language subtitles, the channel owner has to let users create and amend them, then users have to translate. An initial translation is quite possibly created automatically once a translator chooses to start their work.

@dreamdiction

4 жыл бұрын

Look at the mess the world is in, you have no power to create the world your children are forced to live in, therefore you ruin your children's lives just by having them.

@Zift_Ylrhavic_Resfear

4 жыл бұрын

If you're afraid of being a bad parent, then i have the perfect videos for you (in French). The guy is a psychologist that follows science, which you can check by looking up the sources he gives at the end of his videos. Here are the most important ones, but don't hesitate to check out his channel : kzread.info/dash/bejne/lHmtzJZ6hLrAqco.html (part 1, 12 min) kzread.info/dash/bejne/ipOoscV8aJffmaQ.html (part 2, 22 min) kzread.info/dash/bejne/n51qp7xqiMKodZs.html (part 3, 20 min) And here is the playlist with all his videos relevant to children : kzread.info/dash/bejne/pZp82JSSdbeZeKw.html

@goreae

4 жыл бұрын

The auto-generated subtitles are often laden with errors as voice recognition can only be so accurate. It's much better with a channel like Theramintrees where it's very clearly spoken and non-emotional. It makes it very easy to pick up so the errors should be rather minor and easy to patch up. It's very easy to grab the auto-generated transcript. Probably doesn't work on mobile, but yeah. Just click the gear icon in the video, go to subtitles, add subtitles/translation, then under the actions dropdown, there's a download button. This downloads a sbv file complete with timestamps. It's intended to make editing the file easier if you're using a program like subtitle edit or just don't want to use youtube's editor, but it works a treat as a transcript. This is just a normal text file so you can open it with notepad or notepad++ no problem. And if you want to mass-delete the timestamps, it's not difficult if you have notepad++. In the replace menu, make sure the regular expressions option is selected and replace "0:....................." with nothing. That'll just delete all the timestamps nice and quick.

I love the analogy of the shepherds and the sheep. One way it could be interpreted is that overprotective parents may try to teach their children about the 'wolves' in the world, that is to say, scary or suspicious-looking people, but they don't teach them at all about about all predatory people who manipulate their victims by grooming them and showing fake sympathy; just like how the shepherd ends up being the one who really kills the sheep.

I just realized I've been infantilized by both my parents during nearly the entirety of my child and adolescent years. It all makes sense now. Thank you

from my personal experience the infantilisation will effect most people so deep that they will take a path where the cycle of abuse will repeat through all their lives . they are that little bleeding fish in a tank full of predators . they send a smell that attracts the people with a similar traits to their abusers . you can imagine how hard it is to save a human from this manipulative environment

@TheraminTrees

4 жыл бұрын

That's a very poignant image - I think a lot of people will relate to that.

@jayadams3922

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheraminTrees glad you saw the picture i drew in my mind , your response is an honor

@kayjett62

2 жыл бұрын

That's been exactly my. Experience...i was as ol d as 45 before i even realized i was allowed to tell ANYONE "no", set any boundaries with anyone and that i could actually do what i want rather than always what someone else wanted of me! I very much hate my own mother for doing that to me and for all her abuse but im workin on it...just doing it from a NO CONTACT perspective

*There's one thing that Covid-19 can't cancel:* _Another high-quality TheraminTrees video._

@Snow-sx5ev

4 жыл бұрын

Take that Corona virus!

@Poopfingers345

4 жыл бұрын

Funny... now we're all being infantilized by government. Most are all for it. If you surrender your freedoms for safety you'll end up with neither freedom nor safety.

It was hard to watch.. My incompetence and dependence( and over all immature traits) have been torturing me now that I am in the age of independence. It depresses me a lot not being able to become a proper adult. You feel worthless and cannot savor happiness even if its already served right in front of you. The thought of not being an "adult" at an adult age haunts me everyday. I've been fully aware of it now but still can't get out of this hell hole. I feel powerless... I was in a christian country so it was hard to find a hand to reach on. Thank you so much for the content.

@bigrims5239

3 жыл бұрын

Christianity is sick and used to control people

You are incredible and I hope you know that your work is important. Not only is it so well made and easy to understand, it also highlights some of the most important types of manipulation that is rarely discussed or even thought about. Thank you for everything.

I just realized that I used to often infantalize all of my pets. Denying their growth as reflected by how my mother raised me. Especially with my past cats, which my parents left to become strays when we moved And my stomach curb thinking that I subconsciously apply their delirious way of raising even if it's to my pets. It just deeply disturbs me. Many thanks for making this video, I deeply needed it!

@taliakellegg5978

3 жыл бұрын

Same i think

@magnificentpup2875

2 жыл бұрын

How did you infantilize them?

I can't express how helpful your videos have been as I've navigated my way out of a narcissistic family and a high-control religion. Thank you for your work.

@TheraminTrees

4 жыл бұрын

Glad you've been reclaiming your life!

I feel like these comments sections are therapy. Thank you for creating a supportive environment for everyone. I only wish the entire internet were this awesome.

I never knew how much I needed to hear TheraminTrees compare authoritarian governmental actions to methods of abuse

This comes at a great time, as there's real danger of this form of abuse increasing in the fear that goes with COVID-19.

@drew3976

2 жыл бұрын

Bingo. When lock downs first started I got threatened by my mother that I had to quit my job (was an essential worker at the time) or leave the house. I knew I’d be more miserable at home 24/7 so I said alright I have friends I can stay with and she immediately retracted her threat that I had to go. Even guilted me and mocked my friend by saying “I’m surprised you even be willing to go stay at his house over just staying here and letting us know your safe”. Opened my eyes to this world of manipulation.

@Gunth0r

2 жыл бұрын

@@drew3976 Fear-mongering affects everyone. Even your mother. As far as I know, she was actually trying to protect you and/or herself. I'm not saying threats like that are ok, though. I'm just saying she might have been acting from emotion (fear) more than anything else. Something to consider. You don't punish someone for being fearful. That's arguably just as bad as (sometimes worse than) manipulation. I hope you two can talk about things. Define your boundaries, let her understand your position and ask about her feelings and experience of the whole COVID thing. Transparency and open communication are key. Those things happen when you're both on equal footing. For that to happen, you need to show you are an individuated person with boundaries, not just her son.

Thank you for this video Not only was I neglected from any non-violent physical and non-violent emotional attachment, growing up I was barred and reprimanded for thinking or acting for myself. Making the decision that I was hungry and would cook for myself pre-teen I was miserably mocked and told I would be unable to use the kitchen without negative consequences. As a teen I would argue for hours upon hours - days and days to have permission to go to a park with friends, a birthday party, or even a school field trip. My parents would later confiscate anything personal - my bedroom door, my skateboard, any money I had made as I seemed unfit to handle any of these objects. Growing up in my late teens I was not allowed to get a job as everything I needed was available at home and me asking for permission to get a job was shunning my parents, the equivalence of terming their parenting as inadequate. Even as I left the house to go to college, going one week without constant communication with my parents called for them rushing over to my new town, reporting me as a run-away child, hanging posters all around town that I was unfit to fiend for myself, and bribing townspeople, friends, and coworkers into getting me in contact with them. To this day as I reach my mid-twenties I am still nothing more than a baby, any opinion made is ridiculed as me not knowing any better, I am shushed at any suggestions made and am encouraged in a child-like manner to speak or display things like that of a kid posing for a photo of a gift received on their birthday or on Christmas day.

As an older sibling, I often have fears that I will, either purposefully, or inadvertently, abuse my younger cohorts, through my position. Through my instincts. Your videos help me to understand the role, and details, of that position, and in many regards, pull my anxiety away, ever so slightly. My mother and father, for their own reasons, their own upbringing, their own religion, were abusive to me in some ways. Always restrictive of everything I can or can't do, telling me I "could be anything I want to," while giving dissent, and actively pulling me away from everything that I cared about, to attempt replace it with the societal Norm. I questioned everything as a child; my mother's hatred for my father ensured that she gave me at least the basic room to learn and question at that stage, teaching me to be a little rebel, simply to spite him. But as I grew older, things would become more and more authoritarian on her part. And I slipped into the same dogma that they did. I now strive to be different, to offer my siblings at least one other perspective that can help them to overcome the things that were imposed upon us. To understand the delusions of our parents. But I often reflect on my actions, even my thoughts, only to find similarities to my parents. That instils a fear into me. A fear that I could duplicate the actions of my parents, grandparents, great grandparents. Through your rigorous exploration of concepts in these videos, I feel like I understand those similarities, and thereby have the tools to self correct more effectively. I try especially hard not to infantilise my sisters, as the society we live in gives them a role that removes their human independence. I often find myself thinking of them slightly differently, instinctively being more protective. But I counteract this by forcing myself to give them their independence. I really must thank you, for making these videos. They've come into my life at such an apt time, over the past few years, as I've now reached legal adulthood. When I was younger, I felt despair that I might simply become another abuser in the chain of my heritage. These videos give me hope that I can be part of the change, through an understand, even slightly stronger than my predecessors.

I am left looking into a mirror of my own upbringing and one I have up until now been unwittingly forming for my kids. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for making this. It's opened my eyes to change and save years of heart ache

Reference to 38:22 for those curious: The theme music is called «Le Coucou au fond des bois» (French) for "The Cuckoo in the Depths of the Woods" (English) by Camille Saint-Saëns. So beautiful to me. 😍

@TheraminTrees

4 жыл бұрын

Gorgeous composition of Saint-Saëns, isn't it. Spellbinding.

@musiqal333

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheraminTrees The music is so enthralling to the senses 🥰🥰🥰

This video gave me an eerie sinking feeling about my own upbringing. I think that means this is well done.

@ViewingChaos

4 жыл бұрын

Nice profile picture...

I feel like I have been a victim of a mild case of this. I started my first real job at 21, and didn't get a proper contract until I was 22. I am in college, so it probably shouldn't be expected of me to work anything more than 15 hours a week, but I still feel like I am stealing money out of willing people. I had to fight my father over not wanting to sleep in the same bed as him (my parents separated in my early teens, I think) for years. Eventually I got him to separate the bed into two singles, but the distance was so small it might as well have been a single double bed. My mother was better but still unwillingly guilty of pushing maternal care to the bounds of infantilisation. I chalk a lot of this up to me being their only child, but sometimes it really feels like I am being treated like I'm not mature enough to provide for myself.

@pansepot1490

4 жыл бұрын

Realizing there’s a problem it’s the first step to solving it. However don’t feel bad for accepting your parents help while you are in college. It’s normal for parents to help their children, even adult ones. Just think of Trump and Biden! 😂 IMO the thing becomes a problem only if it’s used for emotional blackmail, manipulation or it hinders the growth and independence of the offspring.

Infantilisation has reached its ugly claws into so many more aspects of todays world, especially in the last couple of decades. Or maybe it just isn't as covert as it used to be. 😕

@SolarScion

4 жыл бұрын

I'd say we're seeing more adjuct artefacts of parents' infantilization of their children (if infantilisation itself hasn't increased in the past couple of generations), evidenced by things like participation trophies, which are for the infantilizing parents who put their kids through sports, etc., for their own vicarious ego boost. I think you may be right about organizations and corporations infantilizing society overall having increased, though. People seem to have always acted like sheep when interacting with mass media, but "the customer is always right" certainly seems to be a trend of further infantilisation in retail/food service. Though the tendency does seem to be the opposite in the entertainment industry, where the current strategy is to create a narrative where anyone who is critical of [insert franchise property] is [insert current cultural boogeyman].

I felt that moment when a parent finds out about your sexuality and punishes you for it. I was told by my therapist at the time to keep a journal. So after I had lost my virginity, I wrote it down along with my feelings. A few weeks later, I couldn't find my journal and thought I had misplaced it, later on in the evening, my parents sat me down at the table preceded to bring out my journal and chastise me for being sexually immoral. Needless to say, I stopped expressing my thoughts or feelings about anything with substance to people for a long time, and it took over a decade to mend the relationship with my parents, Alot of it from that one instance of broken trust.

@TheraminTrees

4 жыл бұрын

And parents wonder why they know nothing about their children's lives.

Thank you TheraminTrees. I'm 21 and being trapped by my narcistic mother. I have depression and anxiety so I have problem with finding a job or finishing university. But I'm moving slowly forward thanks to you. You were the first who opened my eyes about my mother. I believe one day I will be independent.

@TheraminTrees

4 жыл бұрын

I wish you well in correcting the course of your life to your own direction. Like I say in the video, so many folks find they have to cultivate their development away from the abusive individual(s).

@adam42211

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheraminTrees You were lucky that you were not alone. :) Best regards from Slovakia

@TheraminTrees

4 жыл бұрын

Oh I know it - I'm thankful every day that I had a little cocoon of sanity in my life in the form of my relationship with my brother. Best regards to you too.

Wow, I can’t even begin to describe what your videos do for me. I’m sitting here, shaking and crying out of sheer relief because everything suddenly makes sense to me… everything falls into place! I’ve left my very abusive parents 14 years ago, broke off all contact 11 years ago, i went through extensive therapy, got sober, the works! But it always felt i was somehow still bound to them until this very moment. You gave me my power back, thank you so SO much!!!

When he said “she wanted to drag him back to those first three years when she felt like the center of his universe” it shook me to my core man, what would that look like? Would the perfect outcome for her be him acting like a baby? Really disturbing

HE'S ALIVE

@idiotusmaximus2643

4 жыл бұрын

Organised religion is definitely mass brain washing in my opinion. But i think the baby may be getting chucked out with the bathwater when it comes to personal spirituality

@an8strengthkobold360

4 жыл бұрын

?

@ninjaassassin27

4 жыл бұрын

This is my reaction for every new upload, even though I don't expect regularity.

I don't know how often you read KZread comments, so I'll just say it again that I really love your videos. I come from a family who doesn't care about religion at all but I still find your religious videos top notch. It's amazing to think that all my friends come from so many different religious backgrounds and indoctrination's yet we remain friends. I wonder if we sat in a room talking about our beliefs what we might find how about each other. Even as a 15 year old who's never gone through these systems I am glad I found your videos to have a better understanding of them, thank you for what you do!

I just have to say: I love your visualisations. They are so unique, interesting, pretty and help to bring your point across. It is clear that you put a lot of effort into them, thank you for that :)

i grew up in an overall healthy environment but i recognize some of my mother's behaviors in this video. sometimes when i tried to put up boundaries or exercise autonomy as a teenager (e.g. respectfully saying i didn't want to talk about something that was bothering me at the time, or saying i wanted to go out on my own to see a church friend instead of having her drive me), she'd get upset & act like i was being stubborn, that i was "changing" (yeah, it's called growing up) and she didn't like it. as if it was somehow wrong for me to not want her to know every single detail of my internal emotions or to be around her 24 hours a day (i was homeschooled mind you, so she already saw me a fair amount). occasionally when we were out in public she would answer questions that others directed to me. that made me feel angry and embarrassed. it's one of the reasons why i jumped at the chance to study abroad as soon as i could. i'd never tell her this, but although often well-intentioned she can be controlling. it feels so good to now have my own space without what feels like her constant surveillance.

Another life lesson learned. Thank you Mr. Theramin.

The need to regress parishioners into a child like State says a lot about the origins of religious psychology.

Man I can't express with words how good your videos are. The content is presented in an appealing and well structured manner, professionally voiced and always underminded with logical and relatable examples illustrating the important points.

Guilt Obligation Debt = god

@ericmoyer8538

4 жыл бұрын

Emiliapocalypse wtf i was reading ur comment when i heard those words. That was pretty cool lol

@Emiliapocalypse

4 жыл бұрын

Eric Moyer ah, it’s so weird when that happens! Haha

I'm soon to be a parent, and after watching your videos, I feel like I know better what to look out for in my own behaviour. I really hope I can be a good father, and avoid making these kinds of mistakes

@TheraminTrees

3 жыл бұрын

Felicitations on your impending fatherhood.

@mrchoon2010

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheraminTrees Wow! Thank you so much. Your reply means a lot to me. Thank you

@mrchoon2010

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheraminTrees I have to confess I'm really scared. I want nothing more than to give my child a better life than I had. I'm scared that this motive will have me make the kind of mistakes I want to avoid making. I don't know how this going to turn out

@Zift_Ylrhavic_Resfear

3 жыл бұрын

@@mrchoon2010 Look into the attachment theory. From what i understood, it was mainly discovered by Bowlby, who is considered by some as the best psychologist today. I heard he wrote several books on his research, so it might be easier to start with those (i'm not sure if it also include papers by other research teams but i from what i know he gives his sources so you can check the science yourself if you want to do it). The attachment theory will help you deal with parenthood, and more importantly it should allow you to avoid making serious mistakes. In case you understand french, i know a few videos summing up the theory, here is a playlist : kzread.info/dash/bejne/lHmtzJZ6hLrAqco.html

@mrchoon2010

3 жыл бұрын

@@Zift_Ylrhavic_Resfear That's amazing of you, thank you

" common sense is nothing more than a deposit of prejudices laid down in the mind before you reach eighteen" -Albert Einstein

I just want to say that these videos are helping me learn not only about religion and abuse, but also about the lives and experiences of so many people. You're helping my intelligence and also sharpening my compassion, and I love you for that.

This makes us a perfect target of other evil abusers- because our judgement is trained to be withheld.

I was infantilised by my family as a child/teen. They never allowed me to do things appropriate for my age (like the example from the video when the daughter tries to cut the cake on her own) and because of it i didn't develop many skills necessary for my adult life. Because of that lack of skills, my own family criticizes me and i feel guilty for something that is their fault.

On the "deliberately misleading phrasing. . . 27:50 And of course he knew that they had no capacity to process the conflicting information they were given. They were punished for failing a test that they were designed to fail." Is this what is considered the double-bind? Prolific. I've become a fan of this channel. Thank you.

"Stayed stuck in a lot of broken and abusive relationships before an actual friend pointed out something. “If some guy you don’t know buys you flowers, you don’t owe him a date, relationship, love, or sex. Similarly, if some family member or “friend” gives you something, you don’t owe them love”" - A commentator That bit of the comment seriously hit the spot for me. My father is a very infantilising person. I was subjected to "relentless debilitating micromanagement." 10:33 I go out to the hall to get some water from the dispenser, Dad is closely watching me (already giving me the sense I'll do something wrong inevitably), then he says, "you can't do it," or "you can't do this, you'll be full. You don't know what you need." We're at the dining table, I try to scoop a bit of rice into my bowl, he tells me, "You won't be able to do it. Help her, [mom's name]!" (that's before I even try, and if I fail, it's a no-brainer. Notice we're talking about scooping some bloody rice here! Micromanagement happened to the point of me now being scared or instinctually paranoid about leaving my room and being in his proximity. I'd rather not even if I needed to.). Here's how that's related to debt. I tell him I want my mom to be independent (or me for that matter, in the sense of going out without a huge stifling interrogation of "how I'll do it on my own."). So again, I tell him I want my mom to be financially independent. He responds in a different but equivalent way to the past responses, by saying, "what else do you need? I provide you with everything." See that "else"? As in "nothing else is equivalent to what I give you," as in "I gave you so much," as in "you are indebted for the fact I took care of you." Or, more clearly, as in "what else can you do?", again, diminishing mom's ability to do and making her believe she won't be able to and needs "management" (not diminishing it out of malice, but because he seriously believes she can't. She's just an infant.) That "else" says so much. It says two things, "what else can you do?" and that therefore due to your incapacity, you have to be grateful. And he does say those things literally. Whenever I try to look for something independently, he takes it as a personal insult, a gesture of ungratefulness to what he gives me (which is what most parents should give if they love their children anyway), but more than that, a gesture of me believing I can do something on my own or have my own "personhood" (which to him is bad and even simply untrue). To the point that now the least thing a non-parental figure gives me makes me happy and in an instinctual state of the need to reciprocate with so much, so much more than I am given. Like I've been offered something so great (although it's a small gesture or flower or promise or hug) that I need to reciprocate because in not "reciprocating" and in wanting to have my own personhood and independence, I was trained to see myself as ungrateful and even wrong about my capacity. This video has made me see so much... So much trauma (that made me feel seriously ill) whose connections I couldn't quite make without feeling like I'm just spewing hackneyed, overused aphorisms from cliché childhood psychology or just wanted justification for my behavior like a "victim" (I looked at myself in contempt whenever I tried to see myself as one, because, well, you know.) I even feel horrible and as if my pride was hurt about realizing I might be a victim, because I was trained I "can't"... Get out of it. (whatever it is, not just even victimhood). So there's this spiraling never-ending vortex of "I can't" and they're so debilitating. Treating your child as an infant is like sentencing them to death.

Oh dear oh dear another theramintrees upload? That's me out of the world for the next 45 mins or so ✈️✈️

Few other channels have such consistent quality and polish, keep up the outstanding work

Edna mode was right! No capes! Honestly though I love your videos and your effort to make well educated and useful arguments against the indoctrination of abusers and religious groups.

Infantilization describes my childhood experience perfectly. I knew something was off. As a married adult I continue to feel guilt for removing myself from negative people in order to grow in knowledge, independence, and self-confidence. My mother acts as a rescuer. She’s never more present in my life than when she’s siding with me, protecting me, and trying to drive wedges between me and more positive social influences at times, usually when I’m emotionally vulnerable. She has disliked me since I was a child for not being what she expected in a daughter, and gives me the cold shoulder as an adult for not being available to answer her calls or messages around the clock, although I live hours away and have a well-developed independent life. She says she misses me, but gets tired of me fast when I go to visit, and triangulates me against the rest of my family to keep us apart. Thank you for taking the time to explain what might be the cause of the discomfort I feel there, and for in some way validating my decision to work to be stronger as an individual in my new life.

I definitely see a lot of parallels between my relationship with my parents and the infantilizing relationships portrayed in this video, especially regarding my mom and how controlling she can be. When I was 19, I finally started getting interested in intimate relationships upon discovering the online kink community, and when my mom found out what I was looking at on my phone and computer, she significantly restricted my internet access and forbade me from exploring that side of myself. Lots of other major things like that have happened too, as well as subtler things such as the word choice she uses during conversations about how mature I am. But here’s the catch: I seriously doubt she’s doing it on purpose, with the intention to demean me so she can stroke her ego. If my understanding is correct, she genuinely thinks that I’m not capable of making smart decisions and protecting myself from toxic relationships, whether online or in person. I think it might be because I have an autism diagnosis, and because young women with autism are statistically more at risk for sexual assault and abuse, she fears that if I start seeking an online relationship, I’ll probably be manipulated into an abusive situation. When I try to explain to her that I’m actually very good at spotting and avoiding red flags and that I know what I’m doing, her response is to essentially say “no, you don’t-you just *think* you know what you’re doing.” So my question is as follows: When something abusive is done with good intentions, is it still abuse? Am I being abused?

@Sarablueunicorn

3 жыл бұрын

you are being abused

@renoia3067

2 жыл бұрын

yeah, i'd say so. people can believe what they say and what they say is still harmful and toxic