Didn’t think I could love you guys more! 😍 Inception sucks! It says so much about his lack of imagination that *THAT* is what he’d come up with when given the chance to play around in the dream realm. It’s all about “Paprika”!

@LiminalSpaces03

Ай бұрын

Thanks. We need to do that one.

@nathanmagnuson2589

Ай бұрын

Paprika is so good

I'm convinced that Nolan and maybe his brother listened to the Alan Watts lectures from the 60s - because there were several of them where he talks about the mechanics by which dreams within dreams would work as well as concepts describing the matrix

@LiminalSpaces03

Ай бұрын

That's very interesting. I should look into that. Thanks.

@cihankenar1

Ай бұрын

Alan Watts is great. Lots of his lectures are available here on KZread.

What about The Prestige?

@Uveryahi

Ай бұрын

Oh good question!

@LiminalSpaces03

Ай бұрын

I think we should do it eventually. I think there is a sci fi book that is based on.

@disconnected22

Ай бұрын

STILL his most underrated film. Evocative, touching...

@LiminalSpaces03

Ай бұрын

This is Chris (the one with the beard) and I love The Prestige! One of my favorites!

@DrinkerOfWindex

Ай бұрын

@@LiminalSpaces03 Awesome!

Agreed. I haven’t seen this since it was in the theater. When people ask about movies that explore dreams I recommend Paprika. I guess this is good for the action/sci-fi fans, but for me dreams are special and this was a bland take on them. I especially hated the “background characters as immune system attack” idea. You could do so many weirder things with that. People in my dreams are like robots, wandering around with a limited number responding to whatever is happening. Someone will attack by just walking up and grabbing me. It doesn’t hurt but it’s like they’re stuck to me and I can start yelling and tearing them apart and everyone else just walks around us uninterested. Mix it up. Make it unpredictable and bizarre instead of just a gun fight every time. The main problem for me was I couldn’t connect with any of the characters. The shaper woman’s curiosity and wonder at the dream world is the only positive element I remember. If I remember right the main guy is trying to take his children from their stable caregiver and use the dirty money to go on the run with them? I thought that was awful so I just kind of wanted to see the heist fail. I’ve seen people say the whole thing is supposed to still be in his dream but if that’s the intent it went so over my head it would just add a whole other layer of unsatisfying. Also watching Inception in the theater marks the first time I realized my hearing was degrading. Some characters mumbled so much I missed half their dialogue. I’ve heard that is a bad film-making style Nolan uses for “realism.” This is one of many reasons I’m happy to wait for most movies to come to streaming so I can watch at home with subtitles on.

@LiminalSpaces03

Ай бұрын

It really could have been more creative. Thanks for the great comment.

@cihankenar1

Ай бұрын

About your hearing, Nolan’s films are notorious for bad dialog mixing. I walked out of Tenet as it was darn impossible to hear. Not to mention a lousy movie.

Bro, I almost forgot to ask: Dreamscape. The screenplay was not written by Zelazny, but I think he did the story treatment. (And now I have to eat my words, b/c in another comment I requested you guys do more books and less movies). Dreamscape is awesome.

@LiminalSpaces03

Ай бұрын

You are absolutely right! I don't even know what a treatment is, but I bet Jason does!

yes, I agree 100% not _terrible_ but not quite even good. very mid 🖖

@LiminalSpaces03

Ай бұрын

Very true. Thanks.

I agree, this whole film was really obviously a string of scenes they wanted to film and they wrote a story loosely around those scenes. The result is a muddled mess. And I'm 100% positive that's how it was written because he did the exact same thing with Tenet... he had a bunch of scenes in his head and he wrote a movie around them. The result is fun to look at, but makes absolutely no sense. These films seem determined to use real-world physics to attempt to tie them to the world we know, and then a second later the physics goes out the window and random things happen. And it just ends up being really frustrating to watch, because obviously a great deal of thought went into specific details, but then really important things like continuity are just fudged. And when you have films specifically about continuity and the continuity doesnt work... it's just mess.

I completely get where you are coming from. Inception felt like I should like it as a sci fi fan but I didn't. Good Yang hat - wish he was running! I'd really like to hear your thoughts on the sci fi movie - The Keep.

Just about every Christopher Nolan movie has something super dumb about it, but they're all still usually still worth watching. Batman Begins with the stupid steam gun that somehow doesn't vaporize everybody it touches, The Dark Knight with the crispy Two Face in the (what felt like) last few minutes of the movie. The Dark Knight Rises with the trapped cops and bad audio and open daylight punch fighting (uncharactistic of Batman), needlessly bad audio of Tenet, the weak nuke going off in Oppenheimer that would've benefitted from CGI. It's like Nolan needs more people on staff to call him out on dumb stuff before calling the movie done.

15:00 _Chekhov's Gun_ is the name of that narrative principle. Based on the priciple that if something is given some kind of value or importance in the first acts, then it should be used and shown its importance in one of the following or final acts of the story.

@Eidolon1andOnly

Ай бұрын

Get's the name from a Russian playwright named Anton Chekhov, where he once famously said how if the audience has their attention drawn to something like a gun over the mantle of a fireplace, then some time later that gun has to be fired, otherwise audiences will feel frustrated and confused as to why they'd have their attention drawn to it.

I recently found your channel. An absolute gold. I don't know why KZread doesn't recommend channels such as yours. I found it only after searching about Zelazny.

I unabashedly love Inception but I get where you come from. Guess I could address some of your points, but you can keep on living perfectly without me writing them…rewatching the film 20 times clears most stuff you mention and I’m the kind of guy who likes to rewatch puzzle films 😅 Suffice to say, Inception is a film about filmmaking- movies are dream machines and a good movie does inception to the audience - when the film came out the tag was “your mind is the scene of the crime” which indeed it is. And yeah, the snow stuff is an obvious OHMSS homage!

@LiminalSpaces03

Ай бұрын

It could grow on me over time. I just haven't got there yet. Thanks for the comment.

@patreekotime4578

Ай бұрын

I personally beleive Dark City is also about filmmaking. That was a popular trope for awhile there.

Ugh, Interstellar. Some cool stuff in there (loved the robot), but all the faux-deep BS really turned me off. Pretty much in agreement with you on Inception... a fun action flick, but so many inconsistencies.

@patreekotime4578

Ай бұрын

Funny, that's one of the very few of his films that I actually like. 😂

@fstateaudio

Ай бұрын

@@patreekotime4578 Lol, different strokes for different folks I guess. :)

I thought it was just me. I enjoyed interstellar, and the Prestige (not loved). But, Inception just pissed me off. I can't stand Dunkirk or Tenet...and saw an hour of Oppenheimer.

@LiminalSpaces03

Ай бұрын

It's not just you but we are in the minority, that's for sure.

@patreekotime4578

Ай бұрын

Yeah, didn't even bother with Oppenheimer. I don't need to see a 3 hour film to know that it was a horrible thing. Dunkirk and Tenet are both close to top of my list of some of the worst big budget films I've ever seen.

@Badficwriter

Ай бұрын

@@patreekotime4578 Ha! I love historical and enjoyed it, but it also made me angry. :)

The chair thing works, as you say, because of "dream logic" but the logic you explore is still too rooted in the real world. The dream logic should go something like this: a chair does not move so long as someone is sitting in it, so she can sit in the chair and keep it from moving even though the physics doesn't work out. As for her leaving the chair, the logic would be something like: a thing (or person) only exists in the dream while you are looking at them, so as soon as he climbs out the window, and loses sight of his wife, she can simply cease to exist, thus leaving the chair (in this cease, ceasing to exist is not the same as dying, she may cease to exist on the chair because the exists somewhere else, somewhere that the dreamer's attention is currently focused).

i think you're overselling how much action is in the movie. i have to wonder how many people would considered it a fun action movie.

@drewc8052

Ай бұрын

The scene where they’re being woken up by falling in the van while JGL is moving on the ceiling in the hotel as gravity changes is one of my fav scenes ever. There isn’t an insane amount of t of action besides this tho.

@ekurisona663

Ай бұрын

@@drewc8052 the snowmobile shootout too

@LiminalSpaces03

Ай бұрын

Good point. I was just trying to throw out positive things as well.

I completely agree. Christopher Nolan is so overrated. He's a bad story teller and his films are humourless and bombastic. He really likes to deliberately go over the audience's heads for no reason than just to make himself look clever. He ruined '2001, A Space Odyssey' by tinting it yellow. What a pretentious egomaniac. He should have given up after making videos for his mother's pop group. And why is Leonardo so miserable throughout this film? He has a permanent scowl on his face all the way through!

@LiminalSpaces03

Ай бұрын

Good points. I don't know that much about him, but I'm going to check out some of the things you mentioned here.

Omg you should watch "synecdoche, new york" after this.. it's sooo good! And also quite dreamy

@LiminalSpaces03

Ай бұрын

Added to the list!

Inception was OK at best. Highly overrated pseudo-intellectual fluff. I feel like a lot of the love and praise for the film was an Emperor's got No Clothes kind of phenomena.

Why you gotta do my favorite movie like this :(

@LiminalSpaces03

Ай бұрын

I'm so sorry. It is just my opinion and it is an unpopular one at that.

@StonefolkNetwork

Ай бұрын

@@LiminalSpaces03it’s a correct one! 😂

I never watched Interstellar. Everything about it sounded dumb and fake scientific. Yes, it did something cool by figuring out what black holes look like, but everything else was Friendship Is Magic level intelligent. Memento sounds more interesting, but the channel Analyzing Evil demystified it and made it more horrifying than people indicate.

Ah. The ubiquity of opinions and certain body parts.

I prefer your brother... just kidding!😂

@LiminalSpaces03

Ай бұрын

OOO Noooooooo!

Too much hand-waving.

@LiminalSpaces03

Ай бұрын

Sorry, my setup is weird now because my brother was here and changed everything. I'll keep trying to fix it.

@delhatton

Ай бұрын

@@LiminalSpaces03 The movie, not you.🙂

@Badficwriter

Ай бұрын

@@delhatton 😄

I’m not a Nolan or Villeneuve fan. They make pretty movies with little substance.

@patreekotime4578

Ай бұрын

I loved loved loved Arrival. Blade Runner is OK for what it is. Dune was hot mess.

@nathanmagnuson2589

Ай бұрын

I think Denis is quite a bit better than Nolan.

Thank you. Nolans Oppenheimer is a masterpiece. But the ones he writes with his Muppet brother are nonsense wrapped in a thin layer of pseudo-intelligence

@LiminalSpaces03

Ай бұрын

Thank you. We are glad you're here.

@ekurisona663

Ай бұрын

I just don't see what other people see in oppenheimer.... I certainly don't understand how it's a masterpiece...

@watcherofthewest8597

Ай бұрын

@@ekurisona663 I know it's long. I would suggest at least 2 full watches. I didn't think it was masterpiece either after first view. Not saying your wrong. So me movies it takes me several watches to get. And some don't like to watch more than once.

@ekurisona663

Ай бұрын

@@watcherofthewest8597 normally I'm a big proponent of watching movies more than once but I just don't have any interest in mining what I saw any further - and I absolutely adored The prestige Memento and inception. I'm curious what aspects of Oppenheimer qualifies it a masterpiece in your opinion?

@ekurisona663

Ай бұрын

i'd be interested to see an explication or examples of the pseudo-intelligence in the film. i'm not quite sure what you mean by that in this context.

It seems irrational (to me) to be hyper-rational about a dream (i.e., his impossibly relying upon his wife's weight to sustain his rappelling down the building). In that scene, at least, the film is not violating its own logic/reality.

I find Christopher Nolan is so overhyped. This movie was a disappointing Hollywood rip off of the excellent Japanese film Paprika. You should watch that next and do a comparison.

@ekurisona663

Ай бұрын

@@cihankenar1 paprika is god tier anime - be careful though because when you watch stuff of that quality it becomes difficult to match it