Having half the battery capacity of the Tesla means that the Freightliner and Volvo can take higher payload since the battery is lighter. So they are moving more freight using the same amount of energy.

@dilly7551

2 ай бұрын

Good point

@user-ri5pj3iq9l

8 күн бұрын

Oversimplification. Terrain plays a huge part. Tesla motors, etc. are second to none.

Interesting things that are becoming very clear with EV transit buses is that the battery degradation rate is significant (and very important) and the lower utilization rate of a large EV vehicle requires “MORE VEHICLES IN THE FLEET” to fulfill the same requirements. This is why some applications are better met by other technologies. Already some companies that serve California “shipping ports” who tried EV semis are moving to other technologies.

@davidsoom1551

6 күн бұрын

Well stated.

Seems like they are better than I thought they would be. I thought they would be fine especially for local deliveries. Once they get the megachargers in place it will be easy for them to go across the country. Not sure what the charge times are.

@Big_Ben_from_La_Mesa

7 ай бұрын

With the current 750 kW Megachargers, 80% SOC in 1 hour, the remaining 20% in another hour. Most operators will probably only charge to 80%, unless they have a really long leg, fully loaded, after they charge; both to minimize charging time, and to maintain battery health. Reducing the load somewhat from 43,000 lbs. will permit the rated 500 miles on 80% charge, or they can carry a full load but only go 400 miles. Statistics show that 83.6% of trips are under 400 miles, so this will usually not be an issue.

@davidsoom1551

6 күн бұрын

F the battery charging crap, what is its useful load? They can't carry as much as the standard truck so it's a fail.

Will be interesting to see how Tesla adapt to different markets. In some EU markets like Finland and Sweden some highways allows 34.5 m and 74 metric tons. While other use and in many cities, they have to be able to drive in narrow streets. Also, there are regulations how long a driver is allowed to drive, and charging can be done during resting period.

Awesome 😎

Being "maxed out" at 82K lbs still doesn't tell us how heavy the payload is. Without this, we're not learning anything. And a company that wont provide this most important of information in specking out a truck, they're hiding vital information. Go spec a transport truck. I don't think you're going to find a transport company that will purchase a truck that doesn't provide all the specs. No jumping to conclusions necessary if they aren't giving you all the specs. They're hiding something vital.

@mikethecargeek

6 ай бұрын

I stumbled across some data in the video I did for WattEV. At the 5:55 mark I summarize the info. kzread.info/dash/bejne/aIOfz8lvgNPTcaQ.htmlsi=JEowzdcH0-JOJ25V …basically, yes I am still looking for hard data on how much more a BEV Tractor (or Hydrogen Fuel Cell) weighs more than a Diesel. I’ll be sure to make a video if (when) I get better data.

Tesla did 500+ miles at 82k gross crossing Grapevine, on a single charge. There is a video of it.

@prof.crastinator

5 ай бұрын

going an average speed of 52.5 mph. Not very real world

@midlifetrucker-thombell4722

5 ай бұрын

@@prof.crastinator You can keep looking for every way to hate this truck. The Tesla Semi doesn't really care. Want to see some fantastic numbers from it? Look at the Run On Less 2023 numbers, pay particular attention to Tesla Semi #3.

@prof.crastinator

5 ай бұрын

@@midlifetrucker-thombell4722 It seems like if it was really that great- then Tesla would release the data in whole to the public- you’d think they’d want to brag. The semi is not going to revolutionize transport- and Doesn’t live up to the hype Elon banked on of it- that it would not only beat diesel (it doesn’t economically) but it would beat RAIL. That is a lot of over-hype, bordering on fraud itself. But saying it would have a “convoy” function was just a lie. I don’t need a reason to think the semi is a failure, the necessary charging infrastructure makes it a niche product already- but when you throw in the reliability issues, range limitations and reduced max weight load compared to ice- it becomes a gimmick for companies to greenwash via pr. The economics make no sense. The fact no price, cargo carrying and real-world range data is available except from a single source that is filtered via nda’s through Tesla, is not very promising. Couple that with only a few deliveries and it seems like Tesla knows it… But we’ll see. I mean the hyperloop proved me wrong. And full self driving robo taxis are now ubiquitous. And then there is that colony on mars that will be established next year….

@jerrylawson9003

5 ай бұрын

82k? So empty?

@midlifetrucker-thombell4722

5 ай бұрын

@@jerrylawson9003 Sarcasm or Ignorance?

_I only see a brief moment of regen braking, right after summiting Donner Pass on the way up_ Actually, there's *more* on the way back. There's some significant regen braking just after topping Donner Summit on the return leg, including picking up almost 2% SOC starting at 9:55.

need a part 2 on smaller trucks

Can we have comparison at diesel truck to same route?

@danharold3087

7 ай бұрын

Agree it would be interesting but not much point. All the electric trucks are going to be significantly cheaper to run and maintain. The days of doubting that electric trucks can work are over. Yes still need the trucks and chargers.

Hmmm can't wait to see them on the show ice Road Truckers!😅😅😅😅

How will they perform in harsh weather conditions knowing how the batteries perform in the cold especially

The Internet says a trucker can average 605-650 miles a day over 11 hours. Throw in a team of drivers and it's limited to the range of the truck, maybe 1200 miles+ with the right setup. Granted this isn't what a beer or soda guy would do. The Tesla semi weighs, 20-27k pounds while a common Kenworth t680 weighs 14,2000. That's a lot of lost freight and miles. Marketing stunt it would seem.

@randgrithr7387

6 ай бұрын

I keep saying the Edison hybrid semi can do everything the Tesla can without even being built for highway use. How a 27,000 lbs offroad logging semi outclasses a purpose built highway truck is embarrassing.

@andyfeimsternfei8408

6 ай бұрын

At less than $1/gal equivalent fuel costs, the time spent charging and miles lost will be far less than the money saved. Charging time will be the best money truckers make in a day.

@EleTruk

4 ай бұрын

None of the routes are straight OTR hauling, so the comparison is irrelevant. They said they do typically 8-12 destinations in a day. You can't do 600+ miles when you have to stop and unload multiple times.

@Mentaculus42

3 ай бұрын

That 27,000 pound weight for the tesla semi is the lowest best guesstimate but not unreasonable guess. The Nikola EV is 29,000 lbs with a significantly smaller battery. The people that are knowledgeable about trucks that have seen the tesla, report that they are built very “lightly” which goes against the trucking industry’s standards for reliability. Proterra went that path on their EV buses and had a lot of cracking (& lawsuits), but they went bankrupt. So maybe why tesla is taking so long is that they are relearning the lessons that traditional OEMs learned along time ago.

@rogerphelps9939

8 күн бұрын

@@randgrithr7387 It does not outclass it when CO2 emissions are considered and that is the most important thing.

Why they only in the CA AZ NM

Pepsi also mentioned regenerative change along routes there go the 1.7 is more than possible

If the goal is to convert all trucks to EV's where is all the lithium coming from and the electricity to charge all these trucks. Charginging a fleet al at once would need massive upgrades to the gtid

The Only electric Truck that I can see as Useful is the Volvo FL. Used in Local or Short Regional Routes, in Stop and Go Deliveries/Multiple Points such as Door to Door. Then Electric Commercial Vehicles make Sense Money Wise.

At 12:19, the first two legs were from Sacramento to Reno and back. Sacramento is near sea level; Reno is at around 5,000 ft.; and they're topping Donner Summit at around 7,000 feet at about the halfway point. You can actually see where the trace turns from steeply down to not-so-steeply down in the first run, around 4:00 AM; and somewhat down to a little less down on the return, at around 9:30 AM; that's the point where they end the climb to Donner pass at around 7,000 feet and start back down, in both directions. On the return, as you assumed, they're getting the benefit of both (presumably) being lightly loaded, and the energy from the 5,000 net climb returned through reduced energy demand; although I only see a brief moment of regen braking, right after summiting Donner Pass on the way up.

@jjamespacbell

6 ай бұрын

That is one steep climb to include in an efficiency test. Even though you do regain some energy on the decline you will always spend more. An additional factor on that route would be how much time the Tesla Semi would save as it is capable of running at max highway speed up and down that incline, no fossil fuel vehicle can maintain and accelerate up those slopes after holdups like the Tesla Semi.

@Big_Ben_from_La_Mesa

6 ай бұрын

​@@jjamespacbell Well, I *think* I know what you're saying. And to support your position, here's a Tesla Semi loaded to 82,000 lbs. GCVW with 44,000 lbs. of concrete highway barriers, accelerating rapidly (watch the speedometer) up a 6% grade on the same pass (Donner Summit), passing a diesel semi creeping up the hill in low gear as if it were standing still: kzread.info/dash/bejne/fqiD07drn5uXmaw.htmlfeature=share&t=985.

Mike, your analysis of the first five days was extremely useful; is there any chance that you're planning to extend this to then entire run? Having done some of the calculation, this would obviously be a monumental effort; but would likely drive the last nail into the coffins of the haters. And if not, is there anyway to get a copy of your spreadsheet, so I might take a run at extending it myself? Perhaps on Google Sheets, such that I could make a copy for my use? Thanks for at least considering this!

may be 100% charging its a test trials thing, or lease contracts structure gives a "go" for full use of truck and batt degradation is in price

@mikethecargeek

7 ай бұрын

It would be great for a manufacturer to tell them to work them hard. If they break, then learn from it.

@Big_Ben_from_La_Mesa

7 ай бұрын

@@mikethecargeek That's actually Tesla's mantra.

Would like to see data on down time for break downs and repairs

@PhilipBelmont

Ай бұрын

And data on cost of maintenace

Long term the game in this is going to be to get power behind the meter (self-owned solar/wind etc.) charging something like a megapack, add whatever line power at low draw $ rates to max the megapack and then dump charge at fast rates. Anything they can do to generate some of that megapack charge level , will be money in the bank.

The freightliner is more "popular" because it has been made available to other companies. Tesla is working with one company not because others do not want it, but because they do not want to make it available. The freightliner is like an early Chevy volt with 120 km range. It is what they can make.

There is no way that an electric semi would work for OTR drivers, or a company that runs OTR. California running freight from the ports to the state line, yes. But we sleep in those things while using electricity On the side of the road, You Won't be able to charge them overnight even at a truck stop, Cold weather renders them almost useless, You get about a third of the range that a diesel truck gets, And it takes 8 times longer to charge that it does to fuel a diesel truck. We tried doing this over a hundred years ago and we chose to go with diesel trucks.

@MattAllen-gr6fy

Ай бұрын

Ridiculously uninformed comment. The Tesla semi charges from 10%-90% in 45 min. That's not much over the 30 min break. Chargers aren't at truckstops yet obviously but you could be fully charged after you 10hr break with a simple tesla v2 supercharger. So even 400 miles on the 1st leg, another 300 after the 30 break. Pretty simple. They'll work if there's enough charging infrastructure just like passenger evs now.

The Freightliner will have slightly better efficiency largely because it has a much smaller (lighter) battery. Considering this the Freightliner should have even better efficiency than what was demonstrated.

@Big_Ben_from_La_Mesa

5 ай бұрын

With less than half the range of a Tesla Semi, the Freightliner should have *much better* efficiency for the reason you state; but actual efficiency is 2.2 kWh/mile, substantially worse than the 1.7 to 1.9 kWh the Tesla Semi is demonstrating-and with much slower charging, to boot. The Tesla Semi charges at about 400 miles per hour, while the eCascadia charges at

This does not seem to be a fair comparison. Tesla Semi is obviously using 2 drivers per day and charging 3 times per day. With 1 driver and charging twice, a realistic range could be 500 to 600 miles in fast traffic.

@Big_Ben_from_La_Mesa

7 ай бұрын

But where's the unfair comparison? 1 driver in a diesel semi can still only drive 605 miles a day, because of the California 55 MPH speed limit, and the HOS limitation of 11 hours on duty.

@erkantruckvlog

7 ай бұрын

@@Big_Ben_from_La_Mesa. No, not unfair to the diesel. Unfair to the other electric trucks in this comparison. The others are not doing the 2 driver per day things as Pepsi Tesla Semi does. Tesla obviously has more range but the comparison would be confusing for normal people who do not read the details.

@bbcooter388

7 ай бұрын

​@@erkantruckvlog I think if people are watching this video, they are not normal. They are the type that want to know the details.

@bbcooter388

7 ай бұрын

This is a totally fair comparison. Pepsi obviously runs a 24 hour operation, whereas, the other companies are only operating a single shift. Each company purchased their respective trucks based on their operating requirements. I doubt that the other trucks could have filled PepsiCo's operational requirements. PepsiCo spent years planning for the arrival of their Tesla Semis and installed the charging infrastructure necessary to support their 24 hour operation. If PepsiCo only ran a single shift each day, they could have saved a ton of money by installing 50 to 75 percent less charging capacity (which is what the other companies did).

@bbcooter388

7 ай бұрын

I believe that PepsiCo is achieving their 1.7 kw per mile range on their entire fleet. The trucks that are being tested in the Run on Less event are Pepsi trucks which, as you mentioned, are probably hauling heavy beverage loads, while the Frito Lay devision is hauling lighter weight, high cube, loads. Still, the numbers you are looking at, are within Tesla's announced specifications for the Semi and better than the other trucks in the competition which are presumably hauling lighter loads.

I'm curious with these claims. Is that fully loaded both directions or 1 direction like many trucks? Are they loosing load or not, that would reflect in loss of earnings or more vehicles on the road. I don't think we have the whole truth here yet, and still doesn't have the advantages of diesel power. We really need more information.

I thought all the trucks were running the same routes?

@brianb-p6586

7 ай бұрын

No, PepsiCo has 21 Tesla Semis running a variety of routes with different loads.

@danharold3087

7 ай бұрын

This was more of a demonstration of how the latest trucks preform for various companies. Not a standardized test. It was not limited to electric or Tesla.

@brianb-p6586

7 ай бұрын

All the reports that I have seen are from PepsiCo's fleet of Tesla Semi's, despite the other companies and other trucks participating. Every participating company operates their own trucks on their own route... which are all different.

@danharold3087

7 ай бұрын

@@brianb-p6586 Because the Tesla Semi is the most controversial truck in the event.

@brianb-p6586

7 ай бұрын

@danharold3087 sure... or just the one with the most fanatic disciples. The strange thing is that the reports I'm seeing are not coming from Teslarati, but from what is supposed to be a legitimate EV news source - InsideEVs. I don't know if InsideEVs is selecting only the PepsiCo/Tesla data, or that's all that is being given to them.

My BS meter blew the main breaker......

they are emtey on return trip

No one seems to include the driver's experience in their assessment of Tesla's semis. How does a driver hand paperwork over to and speak with someone at a booth? How does a driver look out the window when backing or wipe clean the mirrors? How easy is it to manage a touch screen when bouncing along America's ultra smooth roads? There's very very little upside to any sort of touchscreen in a moving vehicle. It does not have any sleeping arrangements for the driver. It's strictly a day cab configuration, meaning it's not suited for trips that take multiple days. Tesla's Semi is impressive in many different ways but being practical isn't one of them. And while in Tesla's cars they move units because features over functionality is acceptable, trucks aren't status symbols first. They do, at the end of the day, have to do the job they're designed for efficiently, and things like this are clearly just "trendy" not practical. It seems Tesla's designers do not adhere to the principle "Form follows function".

Does this comparison is not a real comparison as we don’t know the load and speed that it was used, the only comparison should be equal route equal load, and than the result should be obviously better than advertised for Tesla

This is a long way from “Defies the laws of physics “

Making heavier trucks to be more efficient, no thank you I will stay with diesel! Also getting the constant runaround with shippers and brokers you're not going to make your destination!

@ButterfatFarms

6 ай бұрын

Whatever. Unless you are one of the of the 9% of truckers in the United States who are independent owner operators you aren't going to have a choice. Corporate bean counters will decide. Now shut up and get in the truck and drive! That's going to be the reality for the vast majority of truckers. 😂

Hmmm so solar panels and windmills are going to produce enough electricity to keep all these.frieght trucks running worldwide 24 hrs a day?. sounds like time to start building a bunch of nuclear power.plants?😮😮😅😅

I noticed that the EV trucks are given an extra legal allowable 2,000# grace max GVW poundage over the diesel powered max of 80,000# GVW due to the EV semi-tractor being so heavy with it's batteries to maintain trailer payload capacity. Also the energy density in any of the EV propulsion batteries, per pound will never approach the energy density of a gallon of Diesel fuel. Also consider colder weather in Northern US states will drain more power from the batteries to maintain cabin temperature and external lighting in bad weather. Also long haul drivers are paid by the mile and need 500-600 miles daily to make a decent living. Consider the relatively long recharging times to get the batteries charged again compared to refueling a Diesel rig that will contribute to down time that the driver is not paid for. And where does all of this propulsion electricity come from in the USA? The EVs suck off of the teat of an already taxed and ageing American electrical grid with major prime movers like natural gas, nuclear, coal, oil, and some hydro.

@miguellopez3392

3 ай бұрын

The 2000lb increase is also for natural gas and hydrogen trucks, hydrogen trucks weigh more than battery trucks. The battery doesn't have to approach the energy density of diesel, just having 1/4 of its energy density will render it obsolete due to the batteries much higher efficiency at sending that energy to the wheels. Keeping the cabin warm and running lights won't be a problem for the tesla semi truck. It's battery can run the Average home in the US for a entire month with its energy capacity, a diesel semi truck can't even idle that long lol. The tesla semi can put 350 miles in its batterynin 30 minutes so it will fit 90% of truck routes in the US for a single driver. Coal has ben surpassed by renewable in the US in 2022, natural gas is next, fracking and drilling in the US is heavily dependent on subsidies from the government, far more tax dollars goes into making gas cheap than going in making renewable power cheaper.

@MegaGeorge1948

3 ай бұрын

@@miguellopez3392 Right now the electrical prime mover fuel in America is 39.8 % natural Gas, 19.5 % Coal, 18.2 % nuclear, 21.5% renewables, and .9 % petroleum (.1% error). Right now natural gas is king in that it burns cleaner, it is relatively cheap, and is plentiful. www.eia.gov/energyexplained/electricity/electricity-in-the-us.php I agree that there will be a place for the Tesla semi. But it only seems practical for local and short dedicated routes. An OTR driver needs miles to earn a decent wage. A 350-500 mile range is not going to do that.

Without knowing the weight, all these other numbers are pretty much meaningless. And just getting the power to the charging locations is a cost measured in millions. Pepsi couldn't get the amount of power needed from the utility's substation, so they had to build a powerline to another substation farther away. I'll bet they spent 50 million if the spent a penny just getting power on to the site

@InformedKiwi

6 ай бұрын

If you are as knowledgeable on power distribution as you indicate you missed the Tesla Megapack on site.

@joecummings1260

5 ай бұрын

@@InformedKiwi Megapack only smooths out demand, it does not increase the amount of energy. They needed 3 megawatts, and it wasn't available at the poco substation. Without knowing the power factor all problems this junk causes or anything about the harmonics created by the rectification, that means at least a 3,000KVA transformer installation on site

@Big_Ben_from_La_Mesa

5 ай бұрын

​@@joecummings1260 _harmonics created by the rectification_ I have asked but you have yet to explain where's there's any rectification in the utility provide AC power to the Tesla Megachargers and Megapacks. This repeated claim with no explanation puts your electrical knowledge seriously in doubt. _I'll bet they spent 50 million if the spent a penny just getting power on to the site_ The four in Modesto were $334,000, plus a $5,500 permit fee. There's no reason why the four in the PepsiCo Sacramento Bottling Plant would be much different.

@joecummings1260

5 ай бұрын

@@Big_Ben_from_La_Mesa ​ @Big_Ben_from_La_Mesa The rectification ts done by the Tesla supplied equipment. And the harmonics are caused by the rectification. It's just like working on a facility full of VFDs and computer power supplies. the equipment causes the problems and you have to deal with it. If you don't deal with it you distort the sine wave beyond the POCC and cause other customers problems. That is the whole point of IEEE-519 standards, to keep you from distorting the power on parts of the grid. Do you think your neighbors want dirty power caused by your equipment?

@Big_Ben_from_La_Mesa

4 ай бұрын

@@joecummings1260 _ that means at least a 3,000 KVA transformer installation on site_ So? Tesla has thousands of sites in the US alone with at least this capacity.

Hmmm so as far as State commercial vehicle inspection agencys go How will the safety equipment be inspected on these electric Trucks? How will a cop look at the Brakes tires and so one Most state inspection agencys are run like the GESTAPO! So Will electric trucks get a break because they are politically correct?😮

If you’re going to make these kind of videos for an audience, please use a Teleprompter, or move your script, because trying to pay attention to you when your eyes are glued to the right is very, very distracting

The edison truck will beat the tesla

What's the useful load? Thats what matters. Just more EV BS.

I thought that your post would be factual, but you are coming over as just another "Tesla Troll". Pity, for a little while I beleived I was listening to someone who knew a thing or two about his subject.