Thank you for this present. Must admit I enjoyed it far more than I'd anticipated. I appreciate how thoughtfully you explored and analyzed this topic without necessarily feeling a need to solve it. Queer misery satisfies you because it does, and that admission is much more meaningful than the reasons why. As a soon to be a 58 year-old gay man, it still surprises me how vastly different life is for young people today, than it was for me.35-40 years ago. Because it truly doesn't feel that long ago. Films such as The Normal Heart, Philadelphia, Longtime Companion, and Angels in America accurately depicted the Queer misery of my youth (sorry Ms. Schulman, but not all of us were as brave or as helpful as we could've been.) These stories are also extremely valuable because they were written with no foreseeable endings. Imagine filming stories about the Holocaust at the same time it's actually taking place. These plays and films were just as much for us as they were for straight audiences. But for as much Queer misery that these pieces contain, there is also incredible beauty and even joy in them. Because writing them, acting in them, and funding them required enormous bravery, risk, and commitment. .And yes, while they may seem 'depressing' in retrospect, back then these works gave us validation and visibility. To see our own lives portrayed with such compassion and honesty was something we hadn't experienced before or had even thought possible. But as you'd mentioned, there was a flipside during that devastating time. In the throes of such inconceivable misery, physical intimacy was never more pleasurable or exhilarating. Friendship, music, dancing, drinking, gay bars, societal rebelliousness, body contact, and defiantly pursuing the forbidden made our bodies pulsate all over. Masculinity was necessary to our survival and self-preservation, and therefore we were always prepared to fight. And even though none of us expected to live past 30, recklessness was never an option. Queer misery was everywhere- rampant and unavoidable, and so we embraced fun and happiness for as long as we could.

@JoseMariaLuna

3 күн бұрын

This was so beautiful to read, thank you so much for sharing this

I think, for some people, stories that describe miserable situations (or misery in general) help us realise that we are not alone in our misery. Misery in all its forms forces us to obsess over our own pain, and that sometimes makes it difficult to realise that we are not the only ones who suffer. Unfortunately, many of us learn that most people don’t want to hear any “negativity”, and factor in the stigma of that misery being connected to our homosexuality, means that many of us aren’t able to share at all. Even though we realise the movie is not “real”, we understand that we are not alone, and that eases the burden, if only for a little bit and a little while. Your essay was beautiful, thank you. ☺️

@bespectacledheroine7292

4 күн бұрын

I saw a critique of Edward Scissorhands one time that claimed it was "ableist" because it ended badly for Edward but that's what I'd *liked*. I thought, wow, finally a movie where the outcast isn't unrealistically accepted and bigotry is solved in 90 minutes. A movie that acknowledges the tragedy of being different. I thought it was damn refreshing. People have the strangest allergy to misery, as if because that remains the status quo, the story is somehow in favor? Like, no, by no means?

Sickos (me & my girlfriend) seeing you post this essay: YES... HA HA HA... YES!

@JoseMariaLuna

5 күн бұрын

The way this is THE greatest honor

I love this. For me the key is always sincerity, sincere joy or sincere misery

@JoseMariaLuna

5 күн бұрын

Yes! Exactly!

@patiencekillz

4 күн бұрын

oh i love this take!

The beef I had with gay misery stories were for the longest time they were the only stories available.

@Hobiemyhubby

3 күн бұрын

Thank you! Then when cliché, happy, borderline unrealistic queer stories starts coming out people started complaining, hating and being critical saying it's unrealistic. Yeah that's the point unrealistic straight stories had been told billions of times already since the beginning of cinema and now we have it in queer form that further normalise the presence of queer stories in media. My further beef with misery stories is the viewers, where alot of them only want misery stories to be shown for some reason and are just straight up hating on the happy stories

@StewNWT

3 күн бұрын

exactly. Beautiful Thing from 1996 was the first gay movie with a happy ending.

@ThatMackieGirl

3 күн бұрын

@@StewNWT There are gay movies with happy endings that came out way before 1996. Outrageous from 1977, My Beautiful Laundrette and Desert Hearts from 1985, Maurice from 1987, and the twin films The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert from 1994 and Too Wong Foo, Thanks For Everything Julie Newmar from 1995 all come to mind. There was also a lot of positive rep pre-Hays Code, but a lot of those shorts don't have plot. Out of those, I like Pierrette's Escapades from 1900!!

@StewNWT

3 күн бұрын

@@ThatMackieGirl good corrections, thanks for the list of those titles

@ThatMackieGirl

3 күн бұрын

@@StewNWT No problem! There's way more, especially in the documentary genre. Happy queer stories have been told for as long as there's been queer people behind the camera.

Honestly, yes, I love queer drama, queer misery, queer mess. There is NOTHING like seeing your own cringe, your own obsessive, embarrassing, desperate moments and behaviors committed to narrative. That's how we come to terms with how universal and real our experiences are, and queer people still need that affirmation; people act ugly most of the time and we need more space to see that.

Omg, yes I, give me the misery anytime. Yes, these should not be the only stories told, but for many of us they keep us company, they provide some comfort in not feeling alone, it helps us process and experience our feelings, we grieve for those characters and sometimes for ourselves

Adding this to my endless watchlist of queer video essays 🤣

@AlLeftyPenguino

4 күн бұрын

Fr! I have over 20 as of now 💀

@prozierozie5692

4 күн бұрын

And i never get to finish the one i want to finish ​@AlLeftyPenguino

@macaronisex

4 күн бұрын

Get a job

@BradsPitts.

4 күн бұрын

@@macaronisex yea, I’d be careful about saying that with that username 👀

@meumundosecreto7694

4 күн бұрын

​@@macaronisexu first

"...It was also frustrating that so much of it [the conversation] was moralising instead of seriously engaging with the text" yeah that's the internet media discourse in a nut shell

@sarahpowell6617

3 күн бұрын

This has become my number 1 internet pet peeve lately - moralizing that is not only divorced from genuine criticism but from cultural and historic context and that doesn't allow for messiness or imperfection. Exhausting.

I like your video. I’m a straight black man who suffers from a ton of forced isolation. I sometimes think about ending my life because I can’t relate to my “culture” and suffer from trauma and bitterness from my adolescence. I can’t relate to other people in my community, and yet the people outside of my community, mainly whites, want to kill me or do me harm in some way. So a lot of the time, I feel like I have nowhere to go or no one to turn to. Everyone’s speaking a foreign language to me, and I guess I’m too mired in my own misery or bitterness to engage in the toxic positivity that permeates everyday life. Of course, I’ve got these patriarchal standards that the world wants to impose on me and would get ostracized and mocked for not abiding by them. I get bothered when I see sex scenes because it reminds of what I don’t have and the eternal loneliness I’m sitting in. I have no culture because it was stolen from me and commodified, repackaged for the world to consume. I’m invisible as fuck.

@chaosi1753

Күн бұрын

I feel you….. isolation has changed my brain… forever.

well that's five more movies on my letterboxd watchlist. thanks for this look into "queer misery" as something positive and empowering, something to learn and grow from, something to accept and work through, and something unique and important to us that is important to be heard. it voiced a lot of my own feelings on the matter that I certainly wouldn't have been able to express so well.

@giselle6605

3 күн бұрын

What are rhe five movies I am going to watch this essay later

I feel like whether people prefer cozy optimistic media that comforts them in times of stress or upsetting media that reflects their pain and offers catharsis is a matter of personal preference. When people moralize the enjoyment of dark media it has the potential to invalidate people’s struggles I’ve genuinely seen some people claim that anyone watching media about suffering is just a privileged person enjoying misery porn or just a voyeristic sadist. Not good imo

I gotta add the fact that queer misery is still relevant so much in most of the world as a young middle easteren queer person I find myself isolated a lot I feel so depressed most days so stories like heartstopper to me feel so out of touch and more like a fantasy, I usually find comfort in "sad" movies too, one of my favourite of all time being the perks of being a wallflower it's just wonderful.

@blue-bi8cn

3 күн бұрын

Lmao why am I crying while watching

@Dojafish

2 күн бұрын

SO TRUE AND REAL! Like my God, even in most western countries were they are "accepting", queers still struggle.

@ustherein

Күн бұрын

I’m from the US and find heartstopper unrelatable. Unfortunately the most relatable to me is moonlight

I don't always like the stories of queer misery, but more often than not, they're the stories that have some substance to them.

I think my favourite queer misery story is Hiroshi Ando's Blue. it's an adaptation of a manga about two girls who fall in love in the last year of highschool and are forced to deal with their separation. probably my favourite movie ever

This is really a really great video. I think both joy and misery have a beautiful place in media. I cried the first time I read “I Wish You All the Best”, specifically the beginning when the main character’s parents kick them out. I smiled like an idiot reading “Loveless”. Both of those books spoke to my experience as a nonbinary aroace, and not many books do. While I would love a fun sci-fi romp through space featuring queer characters, I’d also love to bawl my eyes out reading about the miseries of being disconnected from your family and yearning for a community, it just needs to be done well.

@jujube8451

4 күн бұрын

Loveless for me, was the first time I felt I wasn't confused by the aroace characters thoughts and actions. not so much of a large disconnect

@rhymeswithmoose228

4 күн бұрын

Rrghhhhhh /pos we need so much more nonbinary aroace representation

i feel like this want for "happy gay stories" is a kind of american centric view? As someone whos a trans bi man from east europe, and knows many queer people from here and other european countries, things are always complicated, its never easy and happy like people seem to want, the relationships are complex, theres the grief of being gay here and now, at a time where it is difficult to be that in some places, where you might think youre the only one in your small village or town thats like this. Its hard to relate to queer stories that dont have a "darkness" to them, that dont have this grief of living in a world that isnt for you and how no matter how much you try youll always be an outsider do your community, you wont know a "normalcy" afforded to straight people. Maybe transness also plays a part in it, ive seen people developing c-ptsd like symptoms from being trans and in the closet most their life, when you live like that, its hard to relate to happy stories where things are easy. Maybe it brings people hope, that things could be so easy and happy in the future, but to me a happy gay story would be one where people struggle, and are imperfect and hurt and their relationships are complicated but in the end they persevere because they have a community and eachother. Thats what being queer is to me

@vivanesca

4 күн бұрын

idk man heartstopper is a bestseller among baby queers in poland. and fujoshis ofc

@kanjonojigoku8644

4 күн бұрын

@@vivanesca i didn't say those stories don't sell well outside of America ,I said it's an america centric view to want to over correct and over police queer art to where it only shows normative, happy, positive queer experiences that assimilate into straight societal concepts, it's like a "we got rights already can't you guys just be normal so we keep them" attitude

@Lovefortea448

4 күн бұрын

Personally, I view the want for 'happy gay stories' as a desire for people in general that the real world doesn't apply. As someone whose in the closet and seen homophobia in my life, I can perfectly understand people desiring stories that treat them as normal and not a strange foreign or disgusting concept. After all, fiction can be an escape of reality just as it can be self expression. Doesn't mean their should only be happy queer stories cuz it misses the whole point in art as self expression however, I personally disagree with wanting happy gay stories is 'american centric' especially when you can also argue that by living in a country with severe homophobia can cause even more desire for happy gay stories due to not being relatable, but to escape reality from their homophobic countries.

As a trans and gay Colombian, I'm so happy that you included the discussion around Angel69 in this video-essay. There's this terrible idea that queerness and queer persecution is a Western thing when, in reality, queernes and queer art are universal.

The visuals, the script and the passion in this video are top frickin notch

I just recently watched All of Us Strangers and (spoilers for anyone who hasn't seen it, and be aware it features some heavy topics) and I love how it seems bittersweet but it's not, really. The mc (i can't remember his name) is alone in the start and ending of the film. Seeing his parents and believing that they really have come back to life, he wants to tell them about his life and how he's changed as a person and he wants them to accept him, which is something he never got from them because he was so young when they died (and because of the time). It wasn't his love interest's death that made me cry, it was when I heard the jingle of keys in the other room of an empty apartment. It was seeing the man who had just killed himself standing in front of the mc, like some sort of apparition. The film ends with some semblance of closure or a feeling of content, after giving the audience the knowledge that things did not end so well, and that the mc is still alone. The only people I can even remeber in the film are the mc, his love interest, his parents, and the people in the gay bars they saw when they went out. They're the only ones that live in their appartment building. It's a story told with a lack of people, and at first it made things appear more intimate but a certain point it was just isolation, but it's an isolation I'm sure many of us here are intimately familiar with. Sorry to go off on a tangent I just haven't gotten much of an opportunity to talk about this film :,)

@sarahpowell6617

3 күн бұрын

Loved this film and your thoughts

@caaniisleeeep

3 күн бұрын

@@sarahpowell6617 appreciate it. Most people probably wouldn't read it 🥲

I like seeing "queer misery" cause that's all that i ever known. I'm a queer trans man who still early in his transition. It sucks trying to figure shit out when others has known for years. Don't get me wrong starting testosterone is the best thing i ever done for myself and I don't regret it, however i feel more lost than ever. I think this feeling of being lost is due to many things. It is partly due that I knew who i was supposed to be as a woman but now as a trans man, i don't know who I'm supposed to be. I'm partly having to build myself back up from scratch. It's such a isolating feeling and i feel so alone at times that it hurts. So these queer misery movies bring me a cold comfort that tells me I'm not actually alone. Heartstoppers is a sweet show but it feels fake and hollow at times.

I am exactly half an hour in. I am too tired and too drunk -- way too drunk -- to keep watching. Whatever I say here stays, no edits. As everyone does, I have a problem with attention span these days. I really. Can't fucking tell you. How absorbed I am. In what you've made here. I'm a gay trans man. Closeted, for the most part, about being trans, for now. I dunno what you even think of trans people, but at the moment I don't care. I just. I watched I Saw the TV Glow tonight and I just. Feel like I'm part of it. Part of the line of men who love other men. In the way I didn't feel like I was allowed to. I really did get here by accident after. I'm so. Engaged. I took my first shot of T today. I wish people could understand. I wish they could understand, man. I feel like I can just be now. Just watch shit like this without endlessly wondering where I fit into it all. Like I know. I just love this video, okay? I'll watch the rest tomorrow. I'm gonna drink a little more and pass out, yeah? Thanks for this.

@JoseMariaLuna

5 күн бұрын

Congratulations on starting T! Thanks for the earnest ramble 💛💛💛

@harley5.7bviews5secondsago6

4 күн бұрын

Congrats on starting t, dude! This comment hit really hard btw, I'm not sure what else to say. Its hard to be surrounded by so many who don't really understand, even if they try.

@obvsobvs8369

4 күн бұрын

so happy for u!!

@micol7490

3 күн бұрын

So happy for you! Un abbraccio fortissimo!!! Much love ❤❤❤

What I will say about Happiest Season is that the way they treated the autistic coded sister disgusted me. As an autistic lesbian, I found myself more closely identifying with her. I hated the way she was treated by the narrative.

sick of queer teenage dreams, please give me more queer coming-of-middle-age. I feel alienated by stories of happy queer teens when I couldn't experience it. There was an odd double standard in my community where you were accepted as such if you were already considered popular or likable. I was odd, queer and autistic (and the last to find out.) I wasn't worth respecting, let alone Accepting. I love that quote about sacred pain. it feels sacred sometimes, especially if you belong to other minorities, your sucky situation is part of a long line of sufferers. you have to avenge an army of ghosts. you have to avenge yourself. you have to blaze a path for the next generations, you know this. and you're allowed to grumble and kvetch your way through it. because they deserve it. you deserved it too, and it's a g-ddamn shame you didn't get it. time travel only works as a forward motion. no matter how hard you cry you won't get a redo of childhood. …did you know it's still possible? you can still have a happy childhood. no, it isn't the same as going back. you are still you, that sad child is still there. they are you. so you comfort them. treat them with the kindness you didn't get the first time around. the salve to your pain is in yourself, and it really really really sucks that it isn't in other people suddenly changing their ways. they'll see you. you will fuse into yourself and you'll feel whole again. feel, because you already were whole to begin with.

Egg whites and paper bag roller set if you want bed proof curls.

@JoseMariaLuna

4 күн бұрын

Oh my God, thank you!

@kalka1l

4 күн бұрын

@@JoseMariaLuna brilliant video! I should have said that sooner but I focused on sharing historical hair care tips. Congratulations on your award!

Gregg araki’s movies saved my life. They showed me that people like me existed and were valid.

as a straight cis women (who grew up in a small town) and now studying cinema, videos about queer topics/cinema always teach me so much about an experience I will most likely not live trough myself. Your essays are a joy to watch! Creative format, clear arguments and, very important, great movies to add to my Letterboxd watchlist :)

QUEER VIDEO ESSAY NATION WINNING TONIGHT. this is so well made god damn

second Jose video in one month?? we are being touched by gods!

I hated how in Love Simon the blackmailer suffers no consequence. Also, how selfish were Simon's friends

You name drop Heartstopper, but for me Heartstopper is a show about gay misery. I watched it with my partner and the two of us cried through it the whole time. It showed how little it would have taken to turn the hell I went through as a teenager into something bearable. The first episode opens with Charlie in an abusive relationship with a closeted older boy and ends with him being sexually assaulted. The rest of the season is him making friends, being supported by teachers, shown care and compassion. I kept waiting for the terrible thing to happen. For the characters to get injured, or sick. For the love to betrayed. When it didn’t happen it made me realise how awful a world I had come to expect. How little room there was for an idea of joyful gay love. And how little it would have taken for my experience of cruelty born of homophobia to be helped and healed. Heartstopper is devastating because it imagines a world where there is enough love to heal pain. A world we do not live in, but could.

Well, thank you for articulating why one could be attracted to sad stories in a meaningful way. I´ve only been able to explain this to people as "I like stories that make me empathize with the characters", to which people tend to reply "so, does that mean you can´t empathize with happy characters", to which I have no reply and feel like shit. hehe. he. *stares at the void in desperation* Also, as a fellow broke latin queer creator.... best of luck with Fantasolab!!

@JoseMariaLuna

4 күн бұрын

Thank you so much! Solidarity with the creation and the void!

@vivvy_0

4 күн бұрын

just say your experience is different and normal happy portrayal just doesn’t do it for you

fully accepting this is pedantic: might be more accurate to say Joel Kim Booster’s ‘Fire Island’ directed by Andrew Ahn, which is important because the film pretty explicitly about gay anti-asian racism and not just toxic gay culture on fire island - which the film does not fully explore since it’s creator, writer, director, and stars had something very specific to highlight. They deserve to be credited as such.

(Hasn't watched the video yet) I'm so excited for my miserable queers. I've described my favorite literary genre as being "bad things happening to gay people" so this will be right up my alley :)

"Bohemian Rhapsody" came sooooo close to greatness and then missed, ending up as boring and preachy. I actually have no issue with Rami Malek (cishet guy) being cast. They needed to cast someone who could pull off the truly iconic Mercury in looks, mannerisms, voice, and the hard to define charisma. Malek did an amazing job and really sold me on him being Freddie. It was the writing that killed it. Mercury, by all accounts, wasn't a miserable, conflicted person. Complicated, sometimes secretive, driven, occasionally lonely and pretty damned self-aware. Miserable? No. Tormented by his gayness, definitely not. The writers (apparently due to pressure from the remaining band members) really pushed the gay misery, the seeking a "normal" life narrative. Which is a shame. The movie could have been a queer masterpiece and instead felt really lifeless and moralizing.

My memory of Angels in America isn't perfect, but i recall Prior's friends & queer community members being a core part of his recovery and survival? What straight man are they even talking about??

@JoseMariaLuna

4 күн бұрын

The comment refers specifically to Meryl's character arc, Joe's mother, whose redemption arc gets a lot of emphasis in the second half of the play

I am also down for films about queer characters be sad and messy, but I think what I look for there is the same as what I look for in stories about queer joy - where their sexuality is not the main drama of the narrative. It is startlingly rare to find queer leads in a non-romance, in joy or sorrow, but I think the potential for stories like that to be relatable is so, so high.

@JoseMariaLuna

4 күн бұрын

Can You Ever Forgive Me is one of my recent favorites in part because exactly that, a non-romantic approach to queer struggles

@sarahpowell6617

3 күн бұрын

YES, so well said. Queerness doesn't rely on currently having a partner or prioritizing romantic love - maybe right now a queer character's focus is family drama, or fighting crime, or going on a quest!

I can't consume media that is happy because I am miserable and resent it, and I can't consume media that is miserable because I experience no catharsis. So I just don't. I gave-up.

I think you’re from a generation where you have that choice of the fluffy gay rom com content or the legacy of misery content! Some of us just had the misery for decades, so it’s nice to have the fluffy stuff occasionally! Also straight people have had 70 years of Rom Coms where no one’s had to die or be miserable, so can’t we just have a couple?! Like we’re “normal”? No? I still have to be miserable? Ok cool! 😂

@Noxofspades-lh7bj

2 күн бұрын

I hear you. I hated seeing queer misery on film cuz that's all there was while growing up. I especially hated brokeback mountain. So i found comfort in yaoi and yuri manga/anime. As well as thai bls or gay storylines from soap operas. But as i grew older, saw more and more queer joy in mainstream stuff, i revisited Brokeback Mountain and other tragic films. It's easier to process now and i appreciate them way more. But it can still be difficult at times.

@shadowpsykie

Күн бұрын

THIS. I respect queer misery. It’s a part of our story. And is still part of it. We still have lots of pain… but I want our stupid bubblegum shit too.

Knocked it out of the park! Can't wait to see more about your screenplay!!

@ 21:12 . you put this so perfectly. i've tried to explain this to people in my own life and could never explain it quite right

found myself crying about halfway through and never really stopped. thank you for your beautiful work!

Thank you so much for this video, probably one of the best film video essays I’ve seen on KZread!

I've been WAITING for this video omfggg

Another banger wow!! You always make such excellently constructed arguments and really delve into each piece of media you reference I love it

incredible work once again! love your passion for art and it really makes your videos a cut above. so excited to see your upcoming projects ❤

What people don't seem to get about things like this (Damsels in distress as a trope is another example) is that it's never bad in and of itself, but the lack of counterexamples IS. When that's corrected, why *shouldn't* the traditional thing to depict take place? I mean if you want a genre full of straights suffering, look no further than film noir. So it's not as if straights are always happy and gays always aren't, even. But I'm not gay, so take that with a pinch of salt.

There is a special comfort for m in the idea of queer misery. I’m growing up within a JW household (yay homophobia!) so I just kinda always accepted the fact that I would be considered the “wicked” if I turned out queer and die at the end not being able to live in the infamous paradise. Regardless I’m lucky enough to not have to ONLY grow up on tragedies by the fact that I was able to watch Shows like Shera and the princesses of power and the owl house which allowed me to not have to grow up a strong sense of shame I often see other queer people grow up in. But yet queer misery or at least writing queer misery made me often think of the idea that it’s worth it in the end. These 2 people are falling apart at the seams it’s an absolute mess of a relationship. but in the end you still get a smile, a simple laugh at a stupid joke, or just knowing that you make each other happy. Maybe it does work out in the end, through it all you get a happy life together. And at the same time you know that if you don’t. Even if it all ends badly those happy even if short moments were worth it.

Truly gorgous video, and cannot wait to see your new project

4:44 but boy erased was an adaptation of a autobiography versus a historical dark comedy.

@sassylittleprophet

3 күн бұрын

Yeah, it was literally based on the author's real life. Calling it "basic" or "boring" is something I find to be very dismissive, I guess.

@sassylittleprophet

3 күн бұрын

I know. Calling Boy Erased "basic" or "boring" when it's a true story to me feels very dismissive and insensitive. Like, how do you call a depiction of someone's real-life trauma explicitly connected to their queerness "basic" and "boring"? Idk, I felt like that misses the mark. Just don't mention it, or say you didn't care for it.

I appreciate so much the cinematography of your video and lovely set design! The topic at hand...simply pointed for the month being, thank you for this :)

i HATE the idea that queer media shouldn't ever show homophobia or transphobia. seeing the only rep be "cute queer utopia where homophobia and transphobia has never existed" is boring and isolating. i like stories that deal with our hardships and make us feel less alone. i wish there was more trans rep that actually dealt with dysphoria and transphobia and didn't just sweep it under the rug because it's "too depressing" it's like they think acknowledging that bigotry and dysphoria exist is somehow toxic or not woke.

This video is so incredible and thorough and well researched. Congratulations this was aspirational to me in terms of clarity and form.

this is insanely well done

I love your channel so much. Great analysis!

I fken love these types of essays, how is this video not widespread yet? Absolutely loved it ❤

got this video in my recommended and then saw you made videos about ORPHEUS AND EURYDICE as well as OVER THE GARDEN WALL!!! this, coupled with you mentioning sondheim, has me hooked. thank you for this great video and can't wait to watch the rest of your channel!

Every word you said rang true. Really a beautiful and thoughtful video, every word seemed intentional. Good job.

my heart and soul felt so deeply seen by this. Thank you

Everyone complains about grindr but can never seem to delete the app 😅

saw this in my recommended and i'm glad i clicked on it! very good video.

I'm like halfway through this and it's a great video essay so far. One question though that keeps popping up as I'm listening to this is: Why is it that with non-gay audiences, or to be more specific, the general white, straight American audience, individuals media consumers are allowed to have preferences for the genre, content, mood, complexity, style, etc. and no one bats an eye. But when it comes to gay films, we all start fighting about who is "right and wrong" when it comes to taste? Why is it never okay to just say, "we deserve gay media, and in varied forms?" I often feel like the gay community in general wants to create a monolithic subjectivity of ourselves, and more and more lately I think it explains the level of blasé exhaustion with being gay that more and more people have been bringing up in -- ironically -- different ways.

Thank you for making this video. I found it very moving.

Omg the screenplay you’re talking about sounds awesome. Hope it gets far

Thank you for expressing this. I feel so seen.

Only 12 minutes in as I’m typing this and I just want to say that this is already such a wonderful video! I’m sunken into the atmosphere and comfort you’ve built! It feels as if I’m lying in the bed next to you as you ramble on as I answer with “uh-huh” and “yeah” while scrolling through Grindr OwO Anyways, gonna watch the rest of the vid!!! ^^

I just found your channel and I kind of love it. Officially subscribed lol

Watched "all of us strangers" cause of this video. Thank you so much, holy shit. Also, subscribed!

Great video, it really pushed me towards introspection

I watch a lot of queer movies but make a point to avoid the tragic ones, anything that ends in a sad ending and most things that don't end with the main couple together (assuming it's a romance). Been burned too many times before. And yeah you mentioned a lot of movies here that I wasn't fond of but also several I adore. Because I don't mind if a movie is sad or just in some way ...not happy, so long as it's got great writing, and often these movies that aim to be less just pure fluff wind up getting to great writing and complex and interesting characters. Some things are even good enough that I don't mind them being tragic. I was so so happy to see Straight Up mentioned, it's absolutely one of my top 10 movies ever and as an aromantic person it means so much to me how it explores the concepts of amatonormativity and relationship anarchy. I also want to shout out my favourite movie, And Then We Danced, which from the sounds of things, you'd really like.

I died laughing at the perspective fade between the 'bottom?' and the douche in the background. Gay misery is a real frustration. I grew up in the Northwest Territories in Canada and was the first out gay guy in my hometown. But I was also a big jock and loved competitive sports and was a high achiever (ended up becoming a family doctor, where I now practice in Richmond, BC). And I was so sure that when I went off to university I would meet someone I had things in common with, or could identify with. Find a boyfriend, maybe get married and have kids (I graduated high school in 2000). But FUCK has it not turned out that way at all - I found I had nothing in common with most gay men, was treated cattily and shittily by guys I tried to talk to, no one wanted to date, and I didn't have my first boyfriend til I was 30-fucking-5. And by then you become lonely, develop disconnect between physical and emotional intimacy, and everything just feels disappointing. I don't even really care for sex anymore. It has so little to do with intimacy. I still can't find people I have things in common with

Thank you for a very reflective and thoughtful analysis of queer narratives in pop culture. How you juxtaposition suffering and positivity is very interesting and is something that I can’t make my mind up about myself. On one hand I’m sick and tired of the negativity and endless stories about how queer lives end in tragedy, on the other hand just focusing on positive positive narratives, can make us forget about the nuances of queer experiences.

Vabbè, è bellissimo e crudele questo video, mi hai quasi fatto piangere... Grazie ❤

@JoseMariaLuna

3 күн бұрын

Prego 💛

Subscribed xx This video was incredible, and I really appreciate you for writing the way you have. Thankyou for compassionately making space for the "yucky" parts of our queer journey through cinema

as someone who devours sad gay media, i also think that we need more gay joy stories. but it's a fine line for me. i need joy that feels earned. season 1 of heartstoppers was that for me because as unrealistic as i think the story is, there is an incredible lack of stories where we get to see gay people just be happy. recently it's been like what, bros and red white and royal blue that have been the two big releases for gay romcoms. we deserve some fluff too. the world is sad enough as it is.

so excited to watch this later🤍🤍

Spoiler for Book 2 of Call Me By Your Name: ⬇️ But Elio and Oliver actually end up together at the end of their story. The tragedy/beauty in this story wasn't that it ended but it was that there was a prolonged pause until they got to have each other again.

absolutely loved the video, so glad to have gotten it in my recommended feed! i think both sides (the queer misery and the bubblegum sweet type of stuff) are important - like, when i was living in a country were being openly queer meant putting urself in a lot of danger; i was using the sugary stuff as a form of escapism, but now that i'm in a safer place and at peace with my identity, i gravitate towards "heavier" stories. and what's even more important imo is having all of that and more available, not framing the many queer lives and experiences as just this one thing that neatly fits into a box - that (once again imo) would reflect and fit the many queer ways of life and experiences, and i feel like we're getting more range as of the last 20 yrs :)

I disagree about live Simon and love Victor. I grew up Latino, Catholic, and gay so I connected DEEPLY to this show.

excited!

Loved this thank you!

This is a stellar video essay and I loved the Grindr pings for comedic relief! The one thing I’d like to add to the conversation is my interpretation of queer people being drawn to queer misery films/media we can see our experiences reflected and it goes back to the feeling of being alone and seeing this pain and misery reminds us that we aren’t alone in our struggles

Beautifully done

This is amazing. Thank you.

i keep crying but i cant stop watching, love this video

Lady Gaga is both a gay icon AND bisexual (she has made songs about fucking women, like Venus and SXXX dreams in 2013) so she winning an Oscar would have been pretty cool too. Anyway great vid! I love stories about miserable (and horny!) gays as well. my fave queer misery stories are Utena (1997), Mulholland Drive, Death in Venice, Exquisite Corpse, Happy Together, Work in Progress and Stone Butch Blues

great edit. thank you.

I had a bit of an existential crisis a few years ago because I thought Moonlight was about queer joy but everyone was telling me it was a tragedy. Misery helps to make the joy pop for me 😅

this is one of the most honest and sincere video essay about the topic of queer misery that i have ever came across.

I'm so glad the messed up algorithm worked at least once by bringing me here. Really astouding work! Just to add to the conversation, something i've been thinking for a while now has been how arospec and aspec representation is basically in its embrionary state compared to that of queer allos (which still don't get enough attention and resources don't get me wrong!) when often, in real life, me not being openly aroace gets in the way of so many things and brings me a lot of pain. Even media who does include arospec and or aspec rep seems not to be really worried to include any shades of gray there. We need some snarky, miserable and interesting aro/ace characters too 🙂

27:30 …you know I was obsessed with Frozen when it came out back when I was still deep in denial with my lesbianism. Hearing it pointed out, the queer metaphor reading is so obvious I can’t believe I never realized.

@ohno9000

4 күн бұрын

Same here. That's one of the reasons why it become a depression movie for me. I can't watch it without getting emotionally shaken up.

Killer essay as always, excited to (very slowly) get through your recommendations xp also ending with the Last Dance needle drop from FI? *chef's kiss* I love that movie SO much : I love how Howie is clearly Jane but ALSO CHARLOTTE! I love how it's so obviously a way for JKB to tell the audience about queer media he loves. also fun fact, the actor who played Cooper went to my high school!

Feels like a small miracle that this video got recommended to me, bc it doesnt seem necessarily algorithm friendly but gosh am I glad it did. A whole list of new movies to look into :) Personally, as an aromantic person this stuff will never truly be relatable to me and I have no hopes of aromantic characters ever being much acknowledged beyond perhaps… some side character but I LOVE tragedy and doomed romances regardless. Something about the love having mattered and existed regardless of how things ended has always appealed to me in some way.

You’ve put a lot of work into this video and it shows. There were moments where what you were saying hit me in gay places I hadn’t felt before. I really enjoyed this. Felt like watching a seasoned video essayist. Hope you blow up cause it’d be well deserved.

I just hate the lack of creativity whether it’s a sad or happy gay movie/show. Where’s the sci fi, fantasy, action, (etc) gay shit? Why do we only get stories set in “real life”?

OK, sorry, Jose Maria, but I'd never heard of you before YT's algorithm decided I might be interested in this video essay. And for once the algorithm scored. I am still processing everything you covered in this video. I don't even know where to begin and rather than blather incoherently about it, I'll just say "GREAT job!" Very perceptive analysis of the need--and your need--for queer misery stories, not only in and of themselves but as they relate to the larger society and culture. Two thumbs up!! Update: I've watched this twice now. Excellent video essay. It can be summed up, in a way, when you ask "Why is it that I feel more affirmed by 'All of Us Strangers' than by 'Heartstopper'?" Me, too! I agree, with the stipulation that the two shows are not aimed at the same audience--as a 64-yo gay guy, I am not "the primary market" for "Heartstopper." Anyway, and in reference to your friend Frank, that's kind of what it comes down to: is a viewer more affirmed by "Fire Island" or by "Love, Victor?" By "Strangers" or by "Heartstopper"? The difference between the best queer misery stories and gueer misery porn is that at the end of the story, there is some hope, understanding, empathy, growth, or even redemption for the flawed, imperfect characters. We can relate to them., even if they're not fabulous people, like "difficult" Lee in "Can You Ever," because their flaws and imperfections--their misery--makes them human. And your take on "CMBYN" ( 8:50 - 10:25 ) is very similar to mine--the key to the whole movie is that incredible near-monologue by Elio's father. And you spotlighted the most important lines in the entire story: "To make yourself feel nothing so as not to feel anything? What a waste!" That's it right there. Out of the misery, do you let yourself feel something or do you shut yourself down and feel nothing?

You should watch Fellow Travelers- it’ll definitely be up your alley!

True love 💗 *always* hurts a lot. Love stories always need a little angst. If for nothing other than the strength of the emotion making your mind struggle to handle it. Like a dam struggling to hold in a flood. It just happens to be worth the pain it causes. Some of the best love songs are all about true love hurting like Fortnight (Taylor Swift) (it is about 2 people in love, but married to other people).

The saddest part of this whole video is at 11:05 when we discover he’s not a bottom 😢😢😢 I hate these labels tho. So adorable and intelligent, sexy and deep… You made me feel something wow

Man, I don't really care all that much about whether it's comically tragic or saccharine, I just want more art with aspec protagonists😭 Really great video.