Links in description for both headphones Also, have any of you had any positive experiences listening to really well mixed atmos/sony 360 productions on headphones? If so what are your favourite mixes 🤓

Paul is getting closer and closer to the darkside, eh, I mean getting into Atmos more and more. 😀

@PaulThird

8 ай бұрын

I'm just getting all my tools in order 🤣

Thanks for all the work you put into doing all this and sharing! Acoustica if you are listening, I 100% want to hear Paul's take!

@PaulThird

8 ай бұрын

They sent me a license haha 😜

@AquashiiMusic

8 ай бұрын

​@@PaulThirdhappy days! I look forward to hearing your opinion on it

yes pleeeease test the VSX damn.. I would absolutely love your opinion

@PaulThird

8 ай бұрын

🤓🤓

Same problem as always though, no standard. And everyone who is trying to create one isn't doing it for the betterment of audio.

@PaulThird

8 ай бұрын

There will eventually be a standard over time. I mostly prefer well made immersive mixes on the sony's to stereo mixes in terms of just listening and enjoying music. Way more dynamics and just a better feel overall. Maybe it's not for everybody but I think with what Sony is doing right now, they are on to something in regards to how immersive mixes are played back binaurally. Super light weight, unobtrusive looking and have an amazing soundstage for immersive. If Spotify opens the door for dolby and sony 360 then you'll see more headphones going down the Sony route when they figure out what they are doing Tidal is double the price of Spotify and that's gonna put people off, but if Spotify move, then everybody will move. It's inevitable

@Bthelick

8 ай бұрын

@@PaulThird it has promise for sure, but it's all the greed, payola, licensing and forced compatibility that I think will drive it the way of surround. Dolby forcing playlists yet throwing licences at practically mono Bluetooth speakers. And Apple clinging on to exclusivity etc. It's a bloody mess!

@PaulThird

8 ай бұрын

I don't think about all that stuff tbh. I like the sound of it and it's good for my business. The amount of interest I've got just based on the atmos room alone has been fascinating... And it's not even finished 😅 haha I couldn't give a monkeys about the politics, as long as it gets clients through the door and can offer me a way in.. I'm all for it

@Bthelick

8 ай бұрын

@@PaulThird yeah fair enough , glad to hear its getting you work work mate 👊

I've been messing with DearVR through headphones compensated with Sonarworks SoundID. It's very cool. I've been trying the Atmos binaural panning and it barely sounds different from regular stereo. Very subtle. I prefer the DearVR stuff, because it REALLY places things around you in a big way. The binaural placement of things has a lot to do with specific dips and peaks in the high end, so I do believe a very even and "flat" high end (no big peaks, no big dips) helps a whole lot with binaural panning. My AKG K612 is a good one for this. Very smooth FR. Sennheiser HD650/600 would be great for that too, with compensation, but my head and ears HATE those.

@PaulThird

8 ай бұрын

Yeah I was surprised at how sienna sphere can manipulate the placement and how off the dolby engine is off binaurally

@MFKitten

8 ай бұрын

@@PaulThird I bet the Dolby binaural panner is trying to stay "transparent". Which is a shame because height and anything placed behind you sounds the same as being in front of you.

@PaulThird

8 ай бұрын

Yup, That's what sienna sphere fixes, that perception between front and back

I have been Using the Ollo S5X for about 5 months now for doing my binaural mix of my atmos and love them.. I do have Hedd which has massive stage but they are not a patch on my Ollo.. I think headphones are very much a personal thing and are along way from being what they need to be to give the Spatial delivery of an Atmos room.. Ive not Heard sony 360 tracks yet :( But for me Ollos are he best i have found to date. I think once you start mixing in Atmos and understand how hard it is to get that sound correct in monitors then translate it to headphones you will understand it better and the sound.. We are still in the early days of spatial Audio and i think things will improve massively over the next few years. :) P.s I listened to the Parris Paloma track on my Atmos system and it sounded very base heavy with not a lot of top .. Nice track :) You should listen to some George Ezra tracks in Atmos his stuff is very well done.

@PaulThird

8 ай бұрын

You need to listen to the sony's man!!!

@QFXmusic

8 ай бұрын

@@PaulThird Will try it but will have to join tidal 1st lol :) Another Subscription needed lol

@PaulThird

8 ай бұрын

It killed me but only way to listen to these mixes. Even had to get a doby license as well for windows on my laptop. Spewing 😂

@QFXmusic

8 ай бұрын

@@PaulThird Did you get education One :) Much cheaper :)

@PaulThird

8 ай бұрын

It was £16 or something. I just did it haha

"10 most powerful explosions captured by 10 best cameras"

For stereo mixing, do you recommend the Sony MDR or the HiFiman? Do you hear those detail compared to he Hifiman? Thank you.

@PaulThird

8 ай бұрын

Don't use the Sony for stereo mixing. To get those to harman requires such heavy eq moves that it's just pointless. It's made to do a very specific thing to my ears Hifiman for stereo every day of the week

I have trouble identifying what hardware Acustica plugins are emulating. Pink. Gold. Sand. Magenta. Their names doesn’t make sense to me. Do you know how i can identify what hardware is being emulated with Acusticas unconventional naming scheme. Thanks 🙏

@PaulThird

8 ай бұрын

www.marcoallemandi.it/acustica-audio/

It actually sounds different from other open-back headphones? how? isn't it two speakers next to the ear? there have been hundreds of open-back headphones, some with angled drivers like T1 and HD800

@PaulThird

5 ай бұрын

Sony wouldn't tell me but there's definitely some psychoacoustic trickery going on with the frequency response. That's really all I can think of when you only have 2 cups. My guess is angles in combination with frequency response. Whatever it does, it works

Paul you had me blabbering in the first 30 seconds mate . . Hope you're going easy on Ed? He's. a good lad really . . I think. two wee legends are better than whan.

@PaulThird

8 ай бұрын

Did you comment on the right video? Haha

My takeaway was that you were blown away. 😄

@PaulThird

8 ай бұрын

My audio senses were tingling, put it that way 🤣

I want to by headphone amp dac and i am in the budget. What do you think about topping dx3 pro plus or topping dx1 ❤

@PaulThird

6 ай бұрын

Dx3 pro+

I listed in spatial audio 100% of the time. Never in stereo. Always 7.1 or Atmos or 5.1 and wide airy sound stage. I wear headphones at all times. Watching this video in GSX1200 in 7.1 wide soundstage. I like when the sound is outside my head and more out in the room. The effect when watching movies is great. I can hear sounds behind etc and big open sound. I am not that guy that goes "I don't like spatial, virtual surround. It must be stereo". Hell no. If I play an awesome open world game I want it to sound big and open and hearing birds chirping over there and then some rustling in the brushes behind me and so on. 360 degree sound. Close your eyes and your in that world.

@PaulThird

4 ай бұрын

🤓🤓

Well, the majority of the listening public is unlikely to ever invest (it's expensive) or have the technical knowledge to install an Atmos system in their house, so headphone immersive translation is the way forward for this format realistically speaking, so the more technology advances in creating "convincing" immersive sound on headphones the more it will catch on and become the standard..... also translation is to some extent a "content" based outcome, meaning that some material will suit or work better in immersive mixes than others for various reasons (Psychoacoustics, frequency content, placement etc...) This is an interesting comparison Paul thanks.

@PaulThird

8 ай бұрын

🤓🤓

sony lesssgoooooooo

How do these mixes sound on HD600s, a 25 yr old design?

@PaulThird

8 ай бұрын

🤷‍♂️

@powerups5434

8 ай бұрын

@@PaulThird I think that would answer the question but I suspect its all marketing.

@PaulThird

8 ай бұрын

Emrah has more headphones than anyone I know and he told me that the sony's were the most convincing he'd heard He's got beyer, hifiman, sennheiser, focal, Akg, audeze and whatever else. Theres no other headphone I know on the market that has the frequency response of the sony's. They were very closed when I asked them about the tech used. Wouldn't tell me anything. It's a very intentional design. No studio headphone for mixing stereo will have a design like that because it doesn't really work for stereo and it's WAY too much correction to get it to harman

You should try Neumann NDH 30...

@PaulThird

8 ай бұрын

Meh

@EirikHasselberg

8 ай бұрын

NDH 30's are the best headphones out there that cost less than $1k.

@PaulThird

8 ай бұрын

I'd try them but I'm pretty set on my hifiman he1000se

@hi-fiproductions9505

8 ай бұрын

Neumann's NDH's are good, but they are not the best in that price range IMO. They are nice to own, nice to listen on/mix. But god damm, if you drop them or use it quite often, the build on them falls apart easier than any other headphone I've used. Nuemann service/repair were awful, telling me to buy a new pair or pay just as much to fix them. The only thing that was wrong was cosmetic and not in the speaker. It's a product marked as premium, but the service is not lol

@PaulThird

8 ай бұрын

Tbh I just can't see a £550 pair of dynamics based off an old discontinued sennheiser model sounding better than £580 planar hifiman Ananda nanos using stealth magnets. The nanos slam even harder than LCD-X

Slate didn't send it to you because they know you're not gonna sugar coat it and say it's not good if it's trash 🤣

@PaulThird

8 ай бұрын

Well... From what I've heard they shouldn't have that issue BUT if it's not as good as S5X and realphones then I will say

@GersonELongoria

8 ай бұрын

@@PaulThird I'm trying to provoke Slate to reach out 👌🏽👀

🤓🤓🤓

@PaulThird

8 ай бұрын

Remember to check out my autism channel if you want to learn more about my life 🤓🤓

How many sets of expensive headphones and headphone software do we need? Stereo headphones are no good for immersive, and immersive are no good for stereo, except some with certain software. It's a money draining minefield. I just want a set of headphones that I can trust 🤦‍♂

@PaulThird

8 ай бұрын

Tbh the Sony's are £350 which isn't that expensive for headphones that represent immersive mixes really well without any additional software

@MACEASY2

8 ай бұрын

OK, but you seem to suggest they sound great for Sony 360. Dolby Atmos is the dominant format which you say doesn't sound so great on them, so if i were to buy some headphones for surround, the prerequisite would be that they have to work properly with Dolby Atmos, esp for film sound. Then you throw in the thing about Sienna, which muddied the water - would that solve the issue or is that entirely unrelated? I tried Sienna before and It was pretty awful. Very Acustica in its terrible user interface.

@PaulThird

8 ай бұрын

Immersively they sound amazing with dolby it's just tonally it needs a 2 band eq to adjust the low end and remove the mud and that's it. And that's my personal preference compared to what I hear with Sony 360. I use the free APO eq for windows and job done. Sienna sphere to my ears places the sounds correctly binaurally. So it gives you a more realistic sound. Sony gives you the immersive sound stage but sphere enhances it

@MACEASY2

8 ай бұрын

OK, thanks, it is a confusing topic. My last trial with Sienna slowed down my computer so much it was unusable, evern though I have one within their recommended specs. It also looks like a translator for multichannel surround, and room emulator, not so much for already existing binaural streams. They don't even have the sony's in their headphone list. So maybe the Sony's are interesting, but without the Sphere. It's a minefield.

@PaulThird

8 ай бұрын

Nah sony's don't really need sphere for listening to streams. Probably if you are mixing atmos in the daw with the renderer. With the sony's you get the immersive feel without any software. Listen to atmos or sony 365 mixes on tidal and you hear what it's doing

What pains me is the moving target and inconsistency of competing immersive products. None of these systems ought to be hyping frequencies. They should be designed to work properly with flat and accurate reproduction of the mix. As engineers, we've lost control again after decades of predictable playback, but this time it's tonally worse than cassettes. Is it worth the trade off of the painstaking decisions during mixing and mastering for a three-dimensional-sounding experience that is wildly inaccurate? I don't know. I haven't experienced it yet. I just wish manufactures were held to a consistent standard of flat frequency response in these systems.

@PaulThird

8 ай бұрын

They are definitely getting better over time. As I said, on most modern records I prefer the immersive mix on the sony's over the stereo. You just get more feel. I don't know if thats because of the -18 lufs limit so immersive records also sound more dynamic than most pushed for loudness stereo masters. Many people glaze over that fact dolby atmos mixes have way more headroom. I think that definitely helps the "feel" factor I get listening to really well made immersive mixes. At the end of the day, headphones are just as inconsistent in stereo. The argument over target curves (harman vs hifi) and how they all need to sound different or "unique" only confuses perception of the end listener. Least with dolby there is an agreed -18 lufs standard, no fighting with loudness wars and how much limiting is too much limiting. I think Sony is definitely on to something.

@deadscenedotcom

8 ай бұрын

@@PaulThird I watched the Acustica talk. I thought the highs on their virtual room were way overhyped. There's no playback of the original stereo mix, but I suspect that it was a lot closer to the "duller" demos, which I felt had much better correlation despite being too dark. And the EQ variances of these systems? Garbage, bro! I'd hate to be stuck trusting these systems over a real Atmos speaker rig. I suspect I would get better results mixing Atmos in my existing headphones in Logic without all this overhyped crud. I can deal with imagining, for the time being, that a sound feels like it is behind me, even if my ears aren't convincing me, in favor of a balanced mix that is faithful to my intent.

@PaulThird

8 ай бұрын

But that's why a lot of dolby translation is too subtle for many on headphones. Surely if you want the experience then you want the rear speakers to sound like they are properly further back and the soundstage is appropriately placed? At the end of the day I'll be doing my atmos mixes on my 7.1.4 setup but I still want a decent headphone option if I had to do something away from the studio. And the plan is to fine tune sphere with my atmos setup so I can get closer to the sound I hear The rear speakers shouldn't sound dull, that's why kali have been pushing the importance of dolby's reccomended speaker angles. If your ceiling angles are off (especially the vertical) then the dolby mix will sound duller and won't translate as well. That's essentially what sony's hyped high end is trying to combat binaurally. The dullness you are hearing binaurally isn't what the speaker setup results in.

@deadscenedotcom

8 ай бұрын

@@PaulThird I still don't think they should be re-EQing anything. I'd rather go all the way or not at all (and use my imagination trying to mix Atmos in headphones). I don't agree with the compensation approach. I felt the Acustica room was atrocious, but I enjoyed his talk.

@PaulThird

8 ай бұрын

I thought they sounded amazing on the sony's, and tbh I think that's where the issue is slightly, that headphones aren't specifically tuned for immersive. That's what Sony have put all of their research into with MV1. Plus sphere tonally would work better I presume in conjuction with their Headphone eq calibration for your headphones. Sphere didn't sound great with the ollo but I loved them on the Sony

I wish you make vedio about deferent betwen slate vsx and realphones 🥲❤️

@PaulThird

8 ай бұрын

If they ever send me it 🤓

🤓🤓🤓

@PaulThird

8 ай бұрын

Remember to check out my podcast if you want to hear my own mixes and journey into being a full time mix engineer