We achieved spin resistance by tailoring the airfoils across the span of the wing, specifically by giving the outboard portion of the wing higher maximum angle of attack capability. This was not easy and required CFD, wind tunnel testing, and 3 full scale wings flight tested on our POC airplane. The slope of the wing lift curve does in fact level out from 20 to 30 degrees alpha, but stays positive to yield positive roll damping up to max angle of attack.

@abhinavmishra5543

3 жыл бұрын

Good, so if engine fails you can still land it better than a parachute is it?... N how much it cost what hight it can go upto

Icon: hey u get to be a test pilot for spin resistance! Pilot: oh wow, i can't wait to fly the safe and steady Icon A5! Icon: ummmmmmmm no u get to fly a c-150 at the ground in a spiral

@rsmith155

4 жыл бұрын

Danny NBD

The basic premise of spin resistance that NASA developed is that the outboard portion of the wing never stalls, thereby retaining full roll control while the majority of the wing is stalled and the airplane is descending. ICON did not limit pitch control at all to achieve this. The A5 has the same pitch authority we desired for good handling qualities at all CGs before spin resistance testing even began, and we didn’t need to reduce it to achieve spin resistance.

I just read on your website that new orders wouldn't be shipped until 2017... and I actually felt disappointed. As if I could even afford one! But something like this just inspires my imagination, makes me realize I want to do more "out there". You can't put a price tag on that, but someday I'll own an Icon. Preferably the A7 (two generations from now).

Saw this project when it first started few years ago. knew it will be a success in the future. just proud that you proved me right. Goodjob

now THAT'S FUTURE!!! CONGRATULATIONS ICON!! you guys are such an ICON!! haha

REALLY ENJOYED THE TANDEM STALL TEST...Congrats

I have an Icon A5, but radio control. The RC version of most planes act similar to the full scale versions, as mine does. I can definitely stall it, but I also have more throw on the controls than the full size version. The aircraft is very controllable, and one of the "tricks" I like to do is to get it in a full on tip stall, and pull it out after falling about 50 feet. It makes sense what they are saying, I have control even in a stall, no doubt. The RC version is definitely not a trainer

Beautiful design. Beautiful engineering. I hope you sell a ton of them. Also hope you make a non-folding wing version so it can be cheaper so you can sell a ton more!

Maybe get Tom Cruise to fly one. I'm sure he will be able to spin stall the plane. He likes doing the impossible.

Impressive and thank you for taking the enormous trouble of designing specifically to counter spins ! On another note, could I ask how the top of the tail has been tested for strength - having the forces all the way at the top end would put enormous strain and torsion force on the boom fuselage leading to the tail. thanks

Great work fellas! This A5 is beautiful! Too naff all I can afford is the RC version. And it's a good one also!!

That's really cool visually. You can see how the inside of the wing is designed to stall first while the control surfaces on the outside maintain laminar flow.

Very cool, looking forward to being able to buy one of these someday.

1:32 Airwolf theme started playing in my brain

Be proud of your tecnology is a good demostration for the FAA

Fascinating, and very impressive.

I can't wait to buy one!

A Cessna 150/152 doesn't spin just after a stall! They need intentionally to spin it! Actually, Cessna's are extremelly forgiving planes, too.

Awesome work team, well done. Safe Skies 🛫

question. ok in a slow onset stall it won't spin what about a high speed dynamic stall? much more likely to spin off one of those.

The "Ercoup" [sic] (spelled Ercoupe) earned its Type Certification in 1940 by the now (highly) obsolete CAA. Its "characteristically incapable of spinning" behavior was achieved by robbing the pilot of any rudder pedals or independent yaw control. ICON's claim was that the A5 is"the first production airplane to be designed to meet the FAA's full-envelope Part 32 Spin Resistance Standard." This claim is 100% correct. Just calm down and enjoy an awesome feet in engineering and a sexy plane.

Great stuff man, thanks for explaining where I was wrong.

ICON is the Future on plane safety and Reliability.

Thanks Aviation Engineers👍☺️💯🇵🇭

I just love this video.

Outstanding !

Good ol' Burt Rutan designed non-spinnable, non-stallable aircraft more than 25 years ago...

@Farweasel

7 жыл бұрын

Hell, some of the very earliest Aeroplanes were almost unstallable. One example (but not the only one) would be the 1910 Bristol Boxkite. Those used a forward cannard set at a higher angle of attack than the wing. The cannard stalled (and dropped) before the wing would, dropping the nose and increasing airflow over both cannard and the wing. I suspect Siggen (see below) may be on the right treack and Icon have figured some way of doing something simialr with the tail ... that said its has me baffled how you'd do that with a tail.

@captainkttyhwk

6 жыл бұрын

and the aerocoupe...the 30's?

@albertogiannotti5506

4 жыл бұрын

Patrik Jonsson I have not seen it landing on land why

@g6rcteam81

4 жыл бұрын

40 years ago! Burt is bad a$$

3:05 you see how the airflow is disturbed over the wing, except the part near the ailerons, nicely done!

Very stable. That's great!!!

beautiful aircraft... would love to learn to fly and buy

I used to ride shotgun when my buddy would practice spins in a rented 150A. I always needed him to count each spin or I'd get nauseous. I had absolutely no problem doing a 0 G or any other type of maneuver that would make most queasy, but doing someone elses spins with no control on my end made me wanna launch, even after doing it for months. I never could figure out what my problem was there. As a side note, the aerobatic he'd practice in area was real close to his home, so we have pics of his dogs looking up at us as we're doing spins towards them. We always thought the dogs heard the odd engine noise and looked up thinkin' "that's gotta be daddy and his friend".

I loved spinning C150 and C152s gives confidence. The wing low slip to land is also a confidence maneuver for the ones that come to high on final and still want to make the RWY a great breaking the speed off maneuver dirty flying, use the uncoordinated flying only while steep descending, level off coordinated and final check for airspeed, X wind consideration etc, wing low or grab into wind and rudder lineup, my favorite is the wing low landing in Xwind. On water beware not to tip the wing into water.

I know this, my RC ICON A5 does spin in a turn with no power. The RC version likes to have power in a turn. Other than that, the RC version is so much fun to fly.

Its not an aircraft saving lives, its well trained pilots with the right attitude. Spinning is an essential part of pilots education.

Hexagonal dimples or longitudinal scallops on top of the wing would create low pressure pockets as the airflow ramps over them. This would lower stall speed, allow greater angle of attack and increase lift.

@pjbdm1517

8 жыл бұрын

So would longer, more flexible yet sturdy wings

Wonderful!!! It just slowly flops down like a frisbee.

Looks like the reason for the stable stall is in part due to the tail high elevator is rendered ineffective being in the slipstream of the main wings and shadowed from the airflow. The question is then, how much pitch authority do you have to get the nose down in order to resume safe flight from a stall condition.

@xpeterson

6 жыл бұрын

The tail is right behind the prop. The main spin resistance design ques are found on the wingtips, but if the slipstream has something to do with it, adding power should give you full elevator authority.

Not sure if I like the fact the rudder no longer responds in a full stall. It seems a bit strange that you can give full rudder in a stall and have the plane continue in level flight. Normally, the rudder is the one control that works in a deep stall.

I'm impressed!

Interesting to see that the root has stalled but the tips still have the airflow to maintain control.Funny seeing in rudder and full back stick and still staying rock solid in the air.

Good job 👏!!

A safety feature I tought for passenger jets was 200 ejection seats when the plane is no longer flyable ( stupid idea anyway but with a good intention) but these airplane safety features makes my jaw drops. Why this technology hasn't been used in airliners yet. Parachutes have been used in space shuttles since long time ago. That could give to us...the passengers some peace of mind and stop being so worried about some plane failure that can makes us end up in pieces on the ground.

Yes.. that was the point.. Power to idle, pull back stick, right rudder. To initiate a stall spin. Did you watch w/o sound?

amo el A5 espero con ancias el dia que yo tenga uno y pueda pilotarlo. De momento lo piloteo en mi flight simlulator con mis Meta Quest 2 :D

I love this Aircraft

Surely canard aircraft with the smaller front wing at a higher angle of attack than the rear wing also prevent stall/spin circumstances? Apart from that, way to go...

@brianwilgus528

6 жыл бұрын

You got it. They claimed it had never been done but Burt Rattan did it.

Please build something that starts and lands vertically. It's possible with hybrid engine burn+electric in ultra light aircraft, if the engine have more power for ~30 seconds (batteries).

muy bueno, me encanto, cuando por argentina

What a beautiful airplane! Awesome that it also capable of landing in water! Given engine is on the roof, where is the fuel stored? Is it electric?

@rsmith155

4 жыл бұрын

Fuel is always stored in the wings. The fact that it has fuel should answer your next question.

Yes stall and spin and stall is a importent feat to master, for some who didnt hear they say that this plane is a Good plane to do training in is in fact stall and spin training in a safer way, i know the training is hard and stressfull on new pilots and can be realy scary, but i is also a dangerus job for the instructor`s to teach a new pilot to recover from a stall and spinn. to the hole team of A5, Amasing jobb!

What happened to the pilot in the spin? They never showed him recover... what a cliff hanger episode..

Noticed the same thing on the wing airflow. I kept waiting for the tips to stall.

Brilliant! The owner must've got that idea from F-16 :) I love the concept!

Is it still spin resistant with the engine stopped? In my head the draught from the prop over the tail would make a significant contribution to its post-stall controllability. Still cool though, like electronic stability control for planes.

To everyone at Icon, my heart goes out to you and the loss of Jon and Cagri. My condolences to you, and the family of these two fine gentleman. Jon will go down in history as a tremendous historical asset to aviation. All the best to Icon. Amazing company, amazing family.

A colleague pointed out that the Eurocoupe also claimed to be Spin-Resistant: See its wikipedia page: 'The Ercoupe was certified by the Civil Aeronautics Administration (CAA) as "characteristically incapable of spinning." '

i so want one!

Stalls can be related to spins. If the rudder is ineffective in a stall, it's ineffective in a spin then.

Yep with 300 hours in 172'a and many hours in other in other aircraft it is a deliberate act to spin them. The stall (and 152 stall/spin) in the video is only straight and level and power off where most GA accidents stalls (Over three years accident study) happen in low altitude turns, then take off, many over weight or out of G of G. Icon have also submitted a weight exemption of 250 pounds to the FAA sighting stall safety. The folding wings also contribute to extra weight so stall safety?

I think the overall Icon is fantastic - HOWEVER, I am very concerned about the substantial vibration coming from the stabilizer.

I'd love to see more stall resistant designs...but for a different pilot certification category. I fly airplanes that are not "spin resistant" in prolonged, deep stalls, controlling heading, avoiding spins, and while rather "in control" of the event. These airplanes do what a well trained pilot asks of it - I like that about them! A lot of pilots (and CFIs) rely on crutches to get by with their lack of training and exposure to the full envelope and then one day, it bites them (or their students)

A stall occurs when (and only when) the angle of attack exceeds the critical angle of attack. This is about 18 degrees in this type of aircraft. As the aircraft slows the angle of attack is increased to generate more lift and keep the aircraft flying. At that critical angle is exceeded, when the lift reduces dramatically and drag increases. The problem is NOT slow speed, it is that the critical angle has been exceeded, though in this case it IS the slow speed that has required the high AoA.

Hey thanks for the point out! I Honestly never got to the end of the video before! The lie at :37 tuned me out although I had watched through to the spin tests. So at the end of the video they weasel worded the lie they told at the begining of the video. Interesting! Now that I have heard it did you notice the additional caveats? Was not the Beech Starship the first Part 23 spin resistant aircraft? (oops!) They had to throw another caveat on there. ;) It's a shame it failed certification.

I notice a pretty visible buffeting of the tail during the stall. Does that pose any structural concerns?

Don't care what they claim - all this is is limited elevator authority. If not, let's here the actual details, not just vague claims. Also,look at how much "full right rudder" amounts to on the ICON; 10-12 degrees or so? The 150's rudder deflects at least twice that much.

Want to limit stalling and reduce spin chance in any aircraft ? Fly with a thick pillow of appropriate thickness between your stomach and the yoke, or pillow between your knees if stick controlled. Other method, connect a steel wire of appropriate length between stick and dash board. I still would take an ICON. There are plenty of cool features to make it great besides just the safety reasons.

Wow. I'm not a pilot or do I even have the money and time to be one but this plane makes me feel safe if I were to have it..

Credits to the Magician himself JOHN RONCZ!

I've been flying this in MS Flight and am in love.

I was clearly talking about the C152. The plane is spinned on purpose (banking right and right rudder), while the A5 only gets right rudder. By banking the C152, you are reducing lift, and therefore, with barelly any lift, any rudder input will therefore induce a spin immediately, whether on an A5 or a C152.

@karljames1694

5 жыл бұрын

Second effect of yaw is roll. Watch the cockpit video

Is that the old Seawind?

That's it, new life goal. Get to a position where I can fly/(own?) an A5.

Cool

Where is it available and what is the price?

Not every stall results in a spin, that only happens when one wing stalls and the other does not. Notice in the video they put in full right rudder, so the left wing is going a little faster than the right, which stalls first. Cessna said after the first Skycatcher crash that they went back to the wind tunnel, redesigned the vertical stabilizer and made the plane more spin resistant. Then they crashed another one the same way. Now they say they really have it fixed.

why did you remove Roy Halladay's video from your channel?

@rajasbraindead8079

5 жыл бұрын

DXSW Roy halladay dies in a plane crash in one of these icon planes

@MuckAAs

4 жыл бұрын

So does Jon?

re upload?

"if" this airplane ever does get into a spin....will it be recoverable?

I want 1, but a 4 seater & at least with 500-700 miles or at least a NYC 2 Florida travel time distance capability, but i guest even at top cruising speed (120mph) it would take about 7 & 1/2 hrs from NYC 2 Florida. still love it though.

@mnminnmn

6 жыл бұрын

look up raptor aircraft

@Peterowsky

6 жыл бұрын

Yeah, it has maybe two thirds of that range, and only two seats, and less of pretty much everything (except water landing and maybe stall resistance, based on their company video) than a Cessna c150. Also, it costs well over 10x as much.

Can the aircraft taxi with the wings in the stowed position?

I love the bit at the end where that guy is using a set of £10 calipers to measure the thickness of that plate haha But seriously that is an awesome plane!

Doing delayed recovery stalls I was doing well for 1 min, lagged behind, rolled left. 2 turns when I realized I had the rudder to the floor. Right rudder, spin stopped, 2 turns right. House, fence, tricycle turning counter-clockwise where the horizon should be. Instructor George Mejeur nudged wheel forward, I did the rest. Nose came up through horizon, said I forgot to neutralize rudder instead stepping on the right. I was embarrassed. He burst out laughing. Next week we did an hour of spins.

Whats the music 4.21 in that clip? thx

I'm in love

I'm wondering when we cross the line from piloting to just driving airplanes? How is this a good trainer if it's flight characteristics are more forgiving then any other aircraft a person will ever fly?

Wow! Very nice. I'm sure poor folks like me will have to stick with the standards of Cessna & Piper. But a boy can dream though. Great job folks!

@NCPPGpilot

10 жыл бұрын

I digress. It is in fact quite affordable and surprisingly so. So much for assuming.

Welcome to general aviation

Please someone tell me the song at 5:19 PLEASE!

Does anyone know if they made this plane spin resistiant through aerodynamics, or through fly-by-wire??

Since you are familiar, why don't you explain. It seems reasonable to think that if the vehicle loses speed, it will "sink" as the air is no longer passing through the wings at speed and helping its structure move up or stay at a constant height. Please expand on the issue if you can. Thank you.

How do you make a Cessna flat spin?

What about power-on stall spin?

It is a nice aircraft, the accidents occur when people think they can do more or be maverick. It is a tourism aircraft that I would buy soon If I had the possibility.

Hello, is there a rep in Brasil?

Helio Courier also. 1954, I believe.

what you see is that the outside of the wing never effectively stalls.

My dream a plane like that 🙂

We now know that an Icon A5 has crashed onto the shore of Lake Berryessa, killing Icon's Chief Aeronautical Engineer, Jon Karkow as well as Cagri Sever who had been working with the company for just several weeks. This occurred yesterday, May 9, 2017. It is not yet known if the accident was as a result of a spin or spin-testing.

@adarkerlight

7 жыл бұрын

I left a comment here three years ago, sufficiently impressed by this aircraft. When I saw this in the news today, I was saddened at the loss of two engineers. Seemed like such a cool innovative plane, but I'm curious to know what really happened up there.

This is very impressive... but I’d like to see dynamic critical alfa test results, to say, accelerated stall and spin entry behaviour... As a long time instructor on GA Aircraft and having flown thousands of hours on Fly-by-Wire aircraft, I have observed and seen first hand conceptual misunderstandings on how all sorts of pilots, experience and low-time, react on the dreaded “base-to-final-overshoot” scenario. True: Not every pilot reacts the same, and many either increase bank, and/or worse, try to “cheat” believing that the rudder will solve their problem (very famous example of that was lCallsign Revlon”). Any info on those?

@toosas

3 жыл бұрын

mate, the lead engineer Jon Karkow you can see is this video is already dead - crashed in an A5. Not the best track record for this little innovative plane..