I actually really liked this guy Larry Sharpe, because he was an honest actor. He was genuinely open to entertaining presumptions Vaush presented, and was willing to accept he might not know things. He was also not hiding his positions, and was willing to try and defend all his positions. Id like to see more Libertarians with his amount of generosity in conversation.

@bryanwagner289

3 жыл бұрын

I agree

@StrawberryDubs

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, despite some fallacies he seemed to have this guy was a refreshing take compared to the usual trolls he gets

@ImperiumofRat

3 жыл бұрын

I want him back, super wholesome convo

@sketchysketches381

3 жыл бұрын

Totally agree

@dblock20

3 жыл бұрын

He knows what the problems are but his solutions are terrible.

His idea ultimately boils down to “tricking corporations into building better infrastructure,” which is a good idea if corporations are stupid, but they aren’t.

@SocBeefBoi

3 жыл бұрын

They're stupid in short term vs long term investments because the corporate structure doesn't encourage the Executives to focus on long term growth. Instead, it focuses them on short term investments that they bank on.

@gwills9337

3 жыл бұрын

he's trying to come up with "funding hacks" instead of actually, you know, funding things

@lily_astral

3 жыл бұрын

"Corporations will build better infrastructure" implying they won't build roads exclusively for themselves and have every other road be a pothole ridden wavy toll road lmao

@iamdanyboy1

3 жыл бұрын

I think his idea is a good one. Just that I think his numbers are far off. You could probably get millions in revenue , but I doubt they would shell out 100million$+.

@SocBeefBoi

3 жыл бұрын

@@gwills9337 He basically says that the solution to the local government having issues funding public infrastructure is to ignore the root problem and privatize it to a degree. Without understanding that fundamentally, these are bad ideas because they're not economically viable to corporations, so they won't be on the same page. Why pay millions or billions of dollars for bridge mantainence just to get very little ad reach?

Libertarian logic: "Holding elected officials accountable is impossible. Holding elected officials accountable to holding corporate sponsors accountable? Guaranteed."

@caad5258

3 жыл бұрын

Tortured logic

@phanatic215

3 жыл бұрын

I just heard that, and my first thought was that these elected officials aren't serving their constituents normally, but they'll definitely serve the corporation? That is the definition of corruption!!! No corporation is going to pay to repair bridges just to have their name on it and still have to pay.

@richardtisinger2623

3 жыл бұрын

Almost like local politicians are easier to change than state or federal ones...

@gandhigun2304

3 жыл бұрын

@@richardtisinger2623 It's not like that's lead to superior local candidates. I actually read through the positions of my local candidates. They're as much a mixed bag as the federal candidates, if not worse. Being one weird election away from having a mayor switching the city to gold standard currency is hardly a feature.

I think this is Vaush's best debate in a long time. I know everyone loves the antifash bloodsport, but our political discourse really needs more policy-focused discussions like this.

@lilielf5652

3 жыл бұрын

Preach.

@Jcewazhere

3 жыл бұрын

Sure the lack of yelling over each other and name calling was nice, but overall it seemed like similar tactics were used. He'd make a point, Vaush countered it, he'd agree but then go back to defending that point.

@brandonden795

3 жыл бұрын

Do we really need a conversation on the future, 'Amazon tunnels', incentivized by advertising space? Do we realllly?

@sorrycantspeakfrench

3 жыл бұрын

I like calm Vaush more than Out for Blood-Vaush

@jrvanwiebt

3 жыл бұрын

I couldn’t agree more. Now that Vaush is looking to conclude the “tankie arc” I’d like to see maybe a “Libertarian/neolib economics arc” next

Libertarians are completely dependent on others but fully convinced of their own independence

@brittanybertolin8859

3 жыл бұрын

I had a libertarian friend who basically relied on borrowing a bunch of money from all my friends and barely ever paid them back but insisted taxation is theft. As opposed to the actual theft he committed all the time

@walterl322

3 жыл бұрын

Facts

@Ragitsu

3 жыл бұрын

Wisdom: "No man is an island." Libertarians: "Lol no."

@2FadeMusic

3 жыл бұрын

@@brittanybertolin8859 glad you said "had" rather than "have"

@davefranco3811

3 жыл бұрын

Absolutely 💯

Babe wake up, new minimalist title just dropped

@euanoneill8398

3 жыл бұрын

SUS

@korovabozha4963

3 жыл бұрын

What a WEASEL

@isaiahromero9861

3 жыл бұрын

What was it before?

@walterl322

3 жыл бұрын

It got cancelled, it’s an essay now

@disastermidi1990

3 жыл бұрын

@@isaiahromero9861 debate

Right off the bat, the Libertarian forgets that advertising expenses, which his naming rights scheme is, is tax deductible for corporations and so his proposed system automatically transfers the financial burden back to tax payers. 🙄

@EE-gv9wt

3 жыл бұрын

How does this damn system manage to surprise me every time is beyond me. What logic is behind the advertisement being tax deductible? Why?

@spikem5950

3 жыл бұрын

What the actual fuck WHY is advertising tax deductible?!

@Dagg58

3 жыл бұрын

@@spikem5950 business expense. In itself not a bad thing for tax purposes. It is a legitimate cost. Advertising is essential for any business. It's just in this sense, how it was framed by Larry, would absolutely fall under this category.

@Dagg58

3 жыл бұрын

@@ant7891 if a company spends $100 million in advertising, as the bridge analogy was argued, all $100 million would be tax deductible, the 20% corporate tax is taken from net profits.

@SimonH109

3 жыл бұрын

@@Dagg58 yes, all 100M is tax deductible which only lands you with the 20M in savings Nahte is correct. Ex: a corp makes 300M and spends 100M in ads with a 20% rate. If the ads weren't tax deductible they'd pay 20% on the full 300M which is 60M. If the ads are tax deductible they remove them from their revenue and pay 20% on the remaining 200M meaning they pay 40M in taxes. The difference is that 20M Nahte pointed out

The "Vote with your dollar" argument was destroyed for me when I discovered fair-trade coffee cost just a few cents more to make, but are sold for almost twice as much as a form of price discrimination. Like they are just playing on your sympathy to milk you for more money, when they could easily have made all coffee fair trade for basically the exact same price.

@robinvik1

3 жыл бұрын

Source: Undercover Economist by Tim Harford

@stuxtrance177

3 жыл бұрын

The point of fair trade is to provide a higher price for a product otherwise underpriced. In the process they put regulations on farmers preventing them from using child labor and conducting unsustainable farming practices. Fair trade enables farmers to grow and grow to independent businesses that get fair prices for their product. Fairtrade is currently capped by its sales, since it can only sustain as many farmers as there is demand for their products. More sales would mean more farmers able to join and benefit of it. The notion named above seems either false or outdated.

@invaderghostkungfu

3 жыл бұрын

this is why i replaced coffee with vodka

@LimeyLassen

3 жыл бұрын

Planned obsolescence is a problem the free market can't solve. It just can't.

@robinvik1

3 жыл бұрын

@@stuxtrance177 The price of coffee is the price of the entire process: the farming, the transportation, storage, packaging and profit for the company. The farming is a wanishingly small part, which is why it can increase drastically and not really affect the price at all. That's the same reason a Big Mac cost 5.66 usd in the US on average and 6.09 usd in Norway, despite minimum wage workers being paid 7.30 usd per hour in the US and McDonalds works being paid 18 usd per hour in Norway with a 50% bonus when they are working evenings or weekends. I know it makes intuitive sense that if you pay your workers twice as much the product should also cost twice as much (or vice versa), but that is just not the case. You are just buying into corporate propaganda here.

Vaush changing the title from "Debate" is literally 1984

@problematist2

3 жыл бұрын

SUS

@almosthelpless9374

3 жыл бұрын

It's literally Animal Crossing

@WiloPolis03

3 жыл бұрын

Literally 1901 by Phoenix

@somebodyimportant3490

3 жыл бұрын

1988 by George H W Bush

@Zima_Blue01

3 жыл бұрын

Literally sus

Vaush has a "Gordon Ramsay" relationship with his twitch audience lmao.

@karlwilker155

3 жыл бұрын

“Where’s the invisible hand?!?”

@alyceblak1524

3 жыл бұрын

"WHAT ARE YOU?" "An idiot leftist." "CORRECT!"

@Zurgo-fl1kx

3 жыл бұрын

Twitch Chat: Acts a fool Vaush: You fucking donkey

@JoeDirtisawsome

3 жыл бұрын

@@Zurgo-fl1kx "GET OUT OF MY CHAT! GET OUT!"

@k.-flynn

3 жыл бұрын

And just like most of the people Gordon Ramsey yells at, twitch chat absolutely deserves it.

"If we tax companies they will leave" Never get tired of hearing that 100 times a day.

@civilengineer3349

3 жыл бұрын

It seems that they forget that every country worth doing business in also has Gov demanding they pay tax.

@stoneman472

3 жыл бұрын

Amazon threatened to leave NY too, but they didn't because they NEED NY. Companies NEED the American Market more than the American Market needs them.

@Jcewazhere

3 жыл бұрын

Good, let them, then the small businesses ya'll pretend to care about will have a chance. Would be my response :)

@alexhobbs2352

3 жыл бұрын

I love that. So corporations give so little of a shit about local areas that they'll move their entire operation over a few % in corporation tax, but he wants them to invest billions in long-term infrastructure?

@Johnywang1

3 жыл бұрын

the funniest thing about this... is that it just doesn't happen. American companies want to do business here. America is the only country in the world where individual states via for corporations. happens for sports team too.

This debate was just as refreshing as a cool can of Pepsi....Pepsi-Cola: The Revolution against thirst.

@somebodyimportant3490

3 жыл бұрын

All this debating is making me hungry....which is why this comment is brought to you by Subway! Subway, Eat Fresh!

@utubepunk

3 жыл бұрын

Kendall Jenner approves this message.

@TheRainyKingdom

3 жыл бұрын

@@somebodyimportant3490 I got horrific food poisoning from the last time I ate Subway™️, but man! Food poisoning never tasted so good! 🤩 Eat semi-fresh and poorly refrigerated, Subway™️ 😩🤤

@JM-mh1pp

3 жыл бұрын

Knowledge is priceless for everything else there is Mastercard.

@jacobearwood653

3 жыл бұрын

If the most corporate sponsor, is sponsoring your video, then your no counter culture. Your pushing establishment narrative

Some of these business people are the definition of “when you have a hammer, every problem becomes a nail”. Business literally solves everything to them >.

@georgekostaras

3 жыл бұрын

Especially when there are a ton of public ventures which we can point to we serving the public good much better than any private business

@wile123456

3 жыл бұрын

Lower taxes and we will cure ebola and corona too!

@gwills9337

3 жыл бұрын

a "business person" is short for "i cant see past my own nose" and will rationalize profits

@EusebiusAT

3 жыл бұрын

This was honestly a really good summation of my problems with them. Thanks for that, I'll be using it!

@abyssGazerTV

3 жыл бұрын

That’s because a lot of problems in America do have the same root causes (namely, corporations being too overpowered and the government blowing cash on weapons), and so people with different ideals are trying to address it differently.

The companies sponsoring bridges is insane to me. I went to university in a small city of 30,000 people. The local Tyson food factory was, by far, the biggest employer in the city (some 4,000 employees). If a local law was brought up that Tyson wasn't a big fan of, shockingly, that law was never passed. If Tyson had the ability to do so, every bridge going into that city would be the Tyson Bridge, and they would probably would get the sponsorship for free, given how much power that company had in relation to the city's mayor (who was a former public school teacher).

@Goliath5100

3 жыл бұрын

It’s like these guys have never heard of company towns. Or if they have they think it sounds great

@georgekostaras

3 жыл бұрын

It's baffling to me that this libertarian guy just flat out wants to give corporations more control and more power over society.

@Zombi3NinjaKing

3 жыл бұрын

As someone who lives in the city with Wal-Mart's HQ, I see this way too often. Hell, Wal-Mart wanted a stop light put up down the road in front of some distribution centers and they got it with ***public funds*** within 3 months of the distribution centers being complete.

@blargh3428

3 жыл бұрын

And than only Tsyon can do business in the city because they've blocked the bridges for the other businesses.

@wile123456

3 жыл бұрын

Libertairnas jkust want to speedrun to Cyberpunk 2077 hellscape of capitalism neo-fuedalism. To this guy, corporations waging wars on eachother with mercenaries is likely a wet dream

All of the ancap arguments are: "We can't do anything to inconvenient (big) businesses/rich people because they are very powerful, and therefore we should give them more power."

@hugesinker

3 жыл бұрын

Ancap here. None of us would say that. In fact, we think the government should stop subsidizing them.

@hugesinker

3 жыл бұрын

@Jean Sanchez You have no idea what you're talking about. The state props up companies preferentially in so many ways and retards our societies ability to deal with or prepare for crises, making just about everything take longer and be more expensive to recover from.

@katelynknopp8397

3 жыл бұрын

ancap is literally an oxymoron it hurt my brain.

@mattwong5403

2 жыл бұрын

@@hugesinker So how would you prevent mega-corporations like Amazon from gaining too much power? Would you support higher taxes for billionaires and a 21st Century Glass-Steagall Act?

This guy starts with "I have a bridge to sell you" lololol

@stoneman472

3 жыл бұрын

Oooooh shit. I can't believe that flew over my head 🤣

@NoxHypnotic

3 жыл бұрын

lol

What I take away is that this guy has an unreasonable level of faith in corporations to do what's right for society. Or even to do what's rational

@etereo15

3 жыл бұрын

Or for society to hold them accountable

@gwills9337

3 жыл бұрын

this guy is delusional

@katyungodly

3 жыл бұрын

Libertarians are simply laissez-faire bootlickers. They'd rather be ruled by corporations than by "we the people".

@georgekostaras

3 жыл бұрын

@@katyungodly and that’s what’s so damn frustrating. That level of cognitive dissonance

@abyssGazerTV

3 жыл бұрын

@@katyungodly They’re the people who internalized the nice feeling you get when you watch corny commercials or go to the mall, and turned it into a belief that all good things come from corporations and nowhere else.

Vaush and Larry debating furiously, then suddenly, kendal jenner appears with a pepsi can, hands it over.. peace

@Hannibal082

3 жыл бұрын

*This debate was sponsored by Pepsi*

@tia4337

3 жыл бұрын

@LimeyLassen

3 жыл бұрын

Everyone's rebranded All the fighting's over Say goodbye to conflict That design's rejected

@rustinusti

3 жыл бұрын

Yeet HOW DID YOU DO THIS

Im an hour in. This guy seems very good faith, I much prefer these kinds of conversations. He even says a lot of descriptive stuff I completely agree with but then his solutions just all sound like the building blocks for a corporate dystopia.

@LyricalDJ

3 жыл бұрын

(Right) Libertarians tend to believe hard in corporations and the market and tend to shoehorn solutions to fit their views. I do keep hoping they can let that go and look a bit more pragmatically.

@sketchysketches381

3 жыл бұрын

All I gotta say on that is yea

vaush: so that wouldn’t work because- Larry: You Are Correct! and also *continues to defend point* why does he keep alternating between attacking and then justifying his own idea i’m so confused

@Dagg58

3 жыл бұрын

Welcome to Libertarian Logic...

@TheRainyKingdom

3 жыл бұрын

Fr!! It may be that I took my ADHD meds late and they haven’t fully kicked in, but Jesus I am NOT getting what his values are. He’s bouncing around soooo much!

The virgin “Yes.” versus the chad “Debate.”

@emporioalnino4670

3 жыл бұрын

The virgin "Yes" versus the chad "Emerson, Lake and Palmer"

@nationradical

3 жыл бұрын

Thad Soft Machine

@amyrogers7628

3 жыл бұрын

@@emporioalnino4670 😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡

Larry Sharpe underestimated how much people disagree with the rules in UNO in this debate.

@carolyntalbot947

3 жыл бұрын

😄😄😄

@TheHeavyshadow

3 жыл бұрын

"Wait, why are you not drawing? He played a +4!" "Yeah, and he wanted yellow, and I have a yellow +2 to extend it!" "But that's not how that works. You can only extend with a +4 yourself." "Wait, no, she can't. +4 automatically mean one has to draw." "No it doesn't. Otherwise it wouldn't make sense that one can't play after drawing from a +4." "Where'd you get that from? Of course that's allowed!" "Ok, fine, I'll play my yellow 7 then." "Woah, hey, wait, what are you grabbing my cards for?" "7 means switching with a player you want, 0 means everyone gives their cards to the right." "Oh, bullshit, you just got that from Ubisoft." "No I didn't! My family played that way for decades. Next thing you gonna tell me a reverse doesn't work as a skip in a 1v1." "Of course it doesn't. It doesn't count as one with more players, so why should it then?!" Atleast in DnD the *ahem* "healthy discourse" is a planned part of the game. And there is the DM if all else fails.

@TheRainyKingdom

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheHeavyshadow OMGGGG we used to play UNO *EVERY DAY* at lunch when I was at in person school AND EVERYONE WOULD JUST ARGUE ABOUT STACKING +4’s SO MUCHHHH. I’m also in a D&D group (with most of the same people actually lol.) and we all just kinda agree on the rules...😭

@stoneman472

3 жыл бұрын

Clearly he has not played UNO with people from Philly or New York.

@NIN0ID

3 жыл бұрын

the VIRGIN no stacking pickup cards vs the CHAD stacking till your opponent has to pick up 18 cards

Every time I hear a libertarian idea, it sounds like a teenagers idea of an awesome YA series.

@CarlosAnarchoVega

3 жыл бұрын

@@widukindgaladh949 a classless, stateless, moneyless, egalitarian utopia society? There’s literally nothing about communism that would make a “teenager’s idea of an awesome YA series”.

@EnderIzzy124

3 жыл бұрын

@@widukindgaladh949 I'm sorry, would you like society to continue the slow decline it's rolling down now? The way I see it, it's alright if the ultimate goal is unattainable; as long as the steps you take to try and achieve that society are just, fair, and result in a better society, it's ok that the end goal is impossible. The steps you took progressed society to a better state than it was in previously. That's why it's called "progressive-ism." ... because we want to make society better.

@EnderIzzy124

3 жыл бұрын

@@widukindgaladh949 You've put words in my mouth; I'm not a communist. I'm a libertarian socialist like Vaush is. Also, I'm sure you've heard the meme, communism works on paper, but when tried irl you get co-ed by the CIA. Whether or not communism *_actually_* works, on paper, I decided yet. I honestly don't know much about it. I am at least against bolshevism (Soviet Russia). Currently, not all that for it. I like having money.

@zixx844

3 жыл бұрын

@@widukindgaladh949 I dunno about Communism but I look on the news and I can't help but think this free market, let the companies do as they want attitude is an absolute failure. My country has gone down the toilet thanks to free market right wing ideals. Unless some drastic changes are made to stop the decay we are in right now, people will be begging for the government to step in and take direct control over the economy.

@ballbag9641

3 жыл бұрын

@@zixx844 where do you live?

Define American culture: "Take Chick-fil-A Way to Pepsi Bridge, turn down Netflix Blvd all the way to Proctor & Gamble Square and you'll see Macy's. "

@Ragitsu

3 жыл бұрын

Sounds like a cyberpunk future.

@katyungodly

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ragitsu more like Idiocracy. "Brawndo: The Thirst Mutilator

@skullcrushers10

3 жыл бұрын

It sounds nightmarish but tbh, I think getting corporations to pay their taxes and not go to tax havens have proven to be virtually impossible at this point and I don’t see much of a downside to this. It’s just yearly naming rights. I’ve had similar thoughts as this recently and I don’t think it’s bad deal. NYC itself is already Peak Capitalism. Times Square even more so. If you talked about the idea of Times Square before you knew of its existence, it would probably sound cyberpunkish. It’s a big tourist attraction in the center of a city completed inundated with advanced fancy advertising in every direction in big bright lights. Gigantic electronic screens bigger than you’ve ever seen advertising for M&Ms or something. But I think we can all agree it doesn’t diminish anyone’s well-being, and seeing as it’s the central tourist attraction of NY I’d say it even increases it.

@yotubeification

3 жыл бұрын

@@skullcrushers10 one way to prevent it is to threaten to nationalize businesses that try to leave and replace the corporate structure with an internally democratic corporate system.

@spielunker8438

3 жыл бұрын

Although it's not a Macy's in any strict sense. It's a used car lot that sold its naming rights to Macy's.

"Debate" A Vaush cinematic masterpiece.

@KidFlash22898

3 жыл бұрын

Lmao mine said that too.

@billieeisenhower406

3 жыл бұрын

Vaushé

@ranbummerz729

3 жыл бұрын

What is this, a crossover episode?!

@hollywoo1054

3 жыл бұрын

@@ranbummerz729 What do they know? Do they know things? Let's find out!

@gunjfur8633

3 жыл бұрын

@@billieeisenhower406 Veauche

This is what corporate feudalism looks like

@gwills9337

3 жыл бұрын

yes 100% I'm trying to wake people up - we live in FEUDALISM with electricity.

@dynamicworlds1

3 жыл бұрын

There are 2 types of "libertarians" the con-men pushing neofeudalism, and the rubes that fell for their BS rebranding of conservatism/fascism.

@ReichWingWatch

3 жыл бұрын

@@dynamicworlds1 Don’t forget Vaush. He’s a classical libertarian.

@dynamicworlds1

3 жыл бұрын

@@ReichWingWatch the quotation marks were deliberate to denote just the modern American usage of the term.

@ReichWingWatch

3 жыл бұрын

@@dynamicworlds1 My point was there are more than two kinds of libertarians. But apparently you know that already. Just making sure 👍🏻

"simplify the tax code..." yes, yes, yes "...to a flat tax" oh no, no, no

@NotoriousLightning

2 жыл бұрын

This reminds me of a funny story I heard from an old pal once. So his secondary school organized a trip from Norway to Poland, and they were traveling by bus. At one point, they stopped at a restaurant for some takeaway they could eat on this terribly long bus ride. One of the boys went up to order. After placing his order, the waiter asked him if he'd like anything else with that, and he replied "Yes yes yes!" Then the waiter asked him what he needed, and this rascal replied "Oh no no no no!"

@help4343

Жыл бұрын

@@NotoriousLightning I don't get it.

This has got to be the most logical libertarian I have heard in a long while. And I have heard from a lot of them. Don't agree with most of his positions but at least it makes you think and reassess your positions because it's not as outrageous as the others

@somebodyimportant3490

3 жыл бұрын

Except for Pepsi bridge

@cjboyo

3 жыл бұрын

“Pepsi Bridge”

@terrystevens3998

3 жыл бұрын

Pepsi’s bridge to the Coca-Cola factory really fell short

Honestly, this was the most honest conversation out of a right libertarian I’ve seen in a hot minute

@Vivacomunismo

3 жыл бұрын

@@widukindgaladh949 because the idea of giving naming rights of a bridge to a company to cover the costs of its reparation is quite silly

@sebastianlavallee706

3 жыл бұрын

@@widukindgaladh949 Oh he was pleasant. He was also very VERY wrong. The entire argument was "just let the corporations run everything, they'll always act for the good of the public, and it's way easier to hold corporations accountable!" Edit: but yeah, if the comments are attacks against the man and not his ideas that's clearly wrong.

@Vivacomunismo

3 жыл бұрын

@@widukindgaladh949 I feel like most people are commenting on he fact he knows companies have a lot of power yet he still wants to hand them more

@tamashorvath7954

3 жыл бұрын

@@widukindgaladh949 i agree. i disagree on a lot with him, but the level on uncharitability and toicity in these comments is really annoying.

@stoneman472

3 жыл бұрын

Well that's the thing. Larry is just dumb. I can handle dumb. The problem is that most Libertarians are also malicious lunatics on top of being dumb.

Reading that title, I can see this is gonna be another civil discussion.

@lurkingposter

3 жыл бұрын

Surprisingly, it actually was.

@BasilAbdef

3 жыл бұрын

It's yet another hyperbolic, clickbaity title from Vaush. This was all civil with no fireworks of any sort.

@lurkingposter

3 жыл бұрын

@@BasilAbdef It's kinda of clickbaity but he also literally said that.

@haruhirogrimgar6047

3 жыл бұрын

This is the first decent discussion Vaush had with a right winger in what feels like years. This guy's ideas are horrifically stupid but rather than focus on that they found some positive interesting topics to discuss. Also, no yelling over each other.

@tinycrimester

3 жыл бұрын

@@haruhirogrimgar6047 didn't he say he identified as a lib, not right?

"I'm not disagreeing that we need to tax the 1% more" says three seconds later "but wHy TaX??"

@thepuncakian2024

3 жыл бұрын

I think what he was trying to say is that the 1% should be paying more taxes, as in paying the taxes that are already on the books instead of finding loopholes around them. He asks why tax because increasing taxes with the current tax code is pretty much ceremonious at this point, they'll just find loopholes around them too. Also, the US is absolutely shit with handling its money, you give them money to do something like infrastructure, but what ends up happening is they might use half of that tax money on infrastructure, while using the other half on the military, and to make up the difference they'll just make the money machine go brrr. You need to a) dramatically reduce the amount of loopholes in the tax code and b) have money that is allocated for a specific program stay in that specific program, not just shuffle it around all over the goddamn place.

This was an actual refreshing debate, it wasnt super hostile, there were points of agreement, common goals, etc

This man is such a capitalist he ends agreement with, "I'd buy that".

@juliet4093

3 жыл бұрын

@Ludvig B.L. no shit you discovered what humor is

@B727X

Жыл бұрын

Bcuz otherwise u will own nothing and be happy

@leftistnpc5417

Жыл бұрын

Vaush capitalizes on his viewer's idiocy, does that make him a capitalist? 🤣🐑🐑

No coconut island in the timestamps? This convo must go better than the others...

You summed up exploitation from small businesses perfectly. My mom helped a woman start a clothing and accessory company, but she immediately started squeezing her for more work at the same pay while still pretending to be her friend, then tried to screw her over by claiming she stole material when she wanted to quit.

The ultimate Libertarian utopia is a bunch of hermits living in the wilds screeching at each other as they pass by

@jaymorgan8013

3 жыл бұрын

They want to live in Fall Out or Mad Max. Their leaders are War Lord Bezos or Road Warrior Musk.

@ariandynas

2 жыл бұрын

Huh. I didn't know libertarians were Daoists.

Imagine how dystopian it would be if you were on a bridge with Amazon logos embellished all over it. What a wonderful world

@botto6464

3 жыл бұрын

Sounds like a black mirror episode

@s0515033

3 жыл бұрын

Amazon would be appropriate for sponsoring a special brand of piss bottles for workers.

@wartrix6046

3 жыл бұрын

Not logos!!!!! REEEEEEEEE

@MrOtokka

3 жыл бұрын

We do put ads on bridges already though.

@civilengineer3349

3 жыл бұрын

And don't forget, that's the tolerable part. The bad part is when we have to pay toll to cross the bridge at a post on either or both ends of the bridge.

31:20 'you can literally put them in prison" -talking about suing corporations. You can't even figuratively put them in prison. You can fine them if you're lucky, but they don't have tangible corporeal form that's not just capital they own, that's their whole deal as corporations.

@rdes225

3 жыл бұрын

How do you figuratively put someone in prison

@billiecruz4399

3 жыл бұрын

Put executive in prison, typically they don't even get fined. The little guys lose and the rich get richer

@blargh3428

3 жыл бұрын

You could take them to court if you had millions of dollars to pay court fees as well as a VERY good lawyer

@shakacien

3 жыл бұрын

Good thing we've got the freedom to own those things if we own those things, Eyh @@blargh3428 ? ;-D

@sebastianlavallee706

3 жыл бұрын

@@shakacien Wait you're free to own lawyers now? :o Can I get a housebroken one?

The universal basic grocery store idea is actually genius. This could be a serious policy proposal if lobbies wouldn't just shoot it to the ground on sight

Larry Sharpe looked at the state of advertisement and thought "you know what we need? more ads"

@bobwilliams8940

3 жыл бұрын

I mean yeah if it means less taxes

@diegosanchez894

3 жыл бұрын

@@bobwilliams8940 You don't need less taxes, you need to make your government spend your tax money better. That will save you more money than a tax cut without a corporate dystopia.

@bobwilliams8940

3 жыл бұрын

@@diegosanchez894 I agree. I’d have virtually no problem paying taxes if i knew that my money wasn’t funding police abuse or murder. Even if we had some noble that government only spent money for the public well-being however, I’d still be ok with seeing company advertisements on infrastructure in exchange for reduced taxes. I don’t think it would cover all infrastructure costs, but it could at least reduce it.

I have to say, I love these types of debates with Vaush. Larry Sharpe seems like a genuine guy with genuine ideas and they treat each other amicably based on the points that they make. This is a great example of how to respectfully disagree with someone. Thanks for the great background noise fam lol But seriously though, great debate!

@kwameasante5888

3 жыл бұрын

Will y’all stop this civility bullshit. These observations are so surface level and meaningless

@DariusYoung

3 жыл бұрын

@@kwameasante5888 And you're an example of someone who missed the point lol

Vaush is a smart, thoughtful, pragmatic and empathetic chad amongst debate bros. I can't wait to see what he's doing in ten years, and where he goes. He's an asset to the left, regardless of what leftist Twitter has to say.

Although a LOT of the libertarian’s arguments were dumb, I really appreciate how honest and good-faith he was. He genuinely sounded like he was trying to find common ground, and he was pretty respectful (making sure he understood what Vaush was saying for example). I really enjoyed this and would enjoy more productive policy focused debates in the future.

@brianmilo7662

2 жыл бұрын

You think he's dumb because you made up your mind before you searched for this video.

This guys debate tactic at saying “yes.. YES!” Every time Vaush made a point is unironically extremely very effective. It takes the punch out of vaushs arguments and made it his own, very impressive

@georgekostaras

3 жыл бұрын

I think that’s sophistry, making a shit argument look good

@dantaerodgers2555

3 жыл бұрын

as im reading this comment “YES”

@carolyntalbot947

3 жыл бұрын

"Now _you_ say 'yes' when _I_ make a point...please?" 🥺

@westernartifact4163

3 жыл бұрын

Oh man, I've seen this a few times before... It's so strange. It comes off like they're not actually listening to their opponent.

@bobwilliams8940

3 жыл бұрын

Lol Larry Sharpe never even advertised this/treated this as a debate on his channel. He is just a super nice guy who tries to find common ground

No one: The entire comment section: *HAHAHAHAHA THE TITLE USED TO BE JUST ONE WORD! FUNNIEST SHIT I HAVE EVER SEEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

@rosestrohm7986

3 жыл бұрын

Tru its fucking annoying

@billieeisenhower406

3 жыл бұрын

people are having fun with a silly meme and you're here in the corner complaining about it. are you winning son?

@rosestrohm7986

3 жыл бұрын

@@billieeisenhower406 its taking away from actually good comments being made

@2FadeMusic

3 жыл бұрын

still not nearly as bad as twitch chat

@SoHcreate

3 жыл бұрын

@@rosestrohm7986 are you saying the comment section should be a meritocracy?

It's nice to see that we have allies with different ideas on how to get outta this fuckery but his suggestions were straight coconuts. He was good faith tho.

"Vote with your dollar" argument: So someone with 0 dollar has 0 votes and someone with billions of dollars has billions of votes. Sounds pretty undemocratic. No thanks.

The problem is the way we conceptualize "ownership". I've found that the word I actually want to use is "stewardship". I wonder how Right Libertarians respond to that shift.

Daily reminder that a true libertarian doesn't want to be crushed by the government OR corporate monopolies. Have a nice day comrades

@M.M.83-U

3 жыл бұрын

This sound even less likely than anarchy.

@driveasandwich6734

3 жыл бұрын

@@M.M.83-U What, the lack of opressive goverment and monopolies?

@invaderghostkungfu

3 жыл бұрын

no gods, no masters

@M.M.83-U

3 жыл бұрын

@@driveasandwich6734 the idea that we can reach and maintain such a society. Is it, of course, possible to fight back and to limit both but I do not hope we can abolish one or the other.

@WiloPolis03

3 жыл бұрын

@@invaderghostkungfu I like my religion tho :0

I wonder if ancaps just live in an echo chamber where they're told their ridiculous ideas are great and only when they move out of that echo chamber do they get to have their beliefs thoroughly questioned and rightfully ridiculed.

@samseymour7004

3 жыл бұрын

Tbf, a lot of ideologies are like that. It’s why good faith debates are a good thing

@LimeyLassen

3 жыл бұрын

@@samseymour7004 Isn't a "good faith debate" just a conversation?

@jeanmichellelaurent

3 жыл бұрын

@@LimeyLassen yes and that’s even better than mindless yelling

@samseymour7004

3 жыл бұрын

@@LimeyLassen I think the distinction is the presence of an audience and that you’re challenging each other’s ideas

@dadbodenvy4247

3 жыл бұрын

@@LimeyLassen there's formal debating (like what debate teams do) where you often have to submit your sources ahead of time (so your opponent/the moderators can live fact check you more easily) and you actually have to stick with assigned speaking times. It basically doesn't resemble anything we have on KZread currently.

When he went "YES!! EXACTLY!!" at the idea of a private citizen suing Amazon, you just know he's lost in another reality. In what world do most private citizens have the resources to take a huge company like Amazon to court for literally years (since Amazon would obviously want to defend themselves with their own legal team)?? I honestly do not see how that could possible be a better solution than just regulating them and having government oversight

i feel like we’re not giving the guy he’s debating enough credit for how overall polite and understanding he was

@creightonschafer3205

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah I disagree with him but it’s refreshing how good-faith and willing to listen he is.

Day 100 of telling vaush he's RAD!!!! WE MADE IT!

@nerptheepic

3 жыл бұрын

Woot

@zacheryeckard3051

3 жыл бұрын

Now do it again! :D

@mrnubnub4584

3 жыл бұрын

no, vowsh bad }:(

Looking forward to crossing the Depend Adult Undergarment Bridge on my next visit to NYC

@AVspectre

3 жыл бұрын

They could hand out promo merch to help deal with traffic jams...

@sonicdv3953

3 жыл бұрын

Did not expect to see Infinite Jest jokes here tbh

My brain won't stop seeing the sign behind Larry as Shark Week.

Larry: Let''s let Pepsi own a bridge so they can advertise Me: Advertising should be illegal. It's an intrusion into the public commons and is actually mind pollution. In the era of the internet, we don't need public advertising anymore.

@Ragitsu

3 жыл бұрын

I'm glad I found a kindred spirit. Advertising is garbage designed to take up space in your brain.

@quorryraphael9980

3 жыл бұрын

Truuu

@georgekostaras

3 жыл бұрын

I’m glad you voiced something I’ve felt for years

@Tocinos

3 жыл бұрын

natural selection. all the dumb people will die off to advertising such as fast food and alcohol, weeding them out

@kanjonojigoku8644

3 жыл бұрын

@@Tocinos thats literaly not how natural selection works

He lost me at leasing advertising space to Pepsi on our bridges

@katyungodly

3 жыл бұрын

Corporations can't* even afford to pay their workers a living wage much less pay for our infrastructure. *yes they can, but capitalism prohibits it in the name of profit

@skullcrushers10

3 жыл бұрын

@@katyungodly this is a silly take. They choose not to pay their workers fairly because it doesn’t increase their bottom line. But companies like Pepsi wouldn’t be paying for our infrastructure out of the good of their heart, they would paying for their name on the bridge, which is a form of advertising, which Pepsi already spends $1.73 billion on each year.

@robinpage2730

3 жыл бұрын

Sad thing is, this is already done. Look up Minute Maid Park

@ashrobin55

3 жыл бұрын

@@skullcrushers10 wait: how would we know the money paid there would be any more likely to pay for the infrastructure than we are right now; how do we know there's even a market for it; how do we know there's a strong enough competition to incentivize 100mil to advertise on a bridge for christ sake; how do we know a company won't leverage support for infrastructure, as a way to influence other legislation (something that already happens elsewise right now); who handles where that money goes, and who's handling the actual work? This feels like taxation with extra steps, and loads more adverts, and who the fuck likes adverts?

@skullcrushers10

3 жыл бұрын

@@ashrobin55 1) How do we know the money would go toward paying for infrastructure -- because we can design the system that way. How do we know local taxes go toward infrastructure? Someone in government directs the funds. I believe it's the mayor and city council. 2) How do we know there's even a market for this -- Corporations pay $5.5 million for a 30 second advertisement during the Super Bowl. The largest billboard in Times Square costs $3 million a month to advertise on. That is to advertise on a single spot in the city. And to advertise on that spots for a year would cost $36 million. If a corporation would be willing to spend $36 million in a year on a single billboard, I think it is conceivable that they would be willing to pay to put their name on an entire bridge traveled on and mentioned by numerous people everyday. And if $100 million is too high of a price tag, we could hyphenate the name to allow two companies to own the rights. We could call it the Pepsi-Apple Bridge. 3) How do we know that a company won't leverage support for infrastructure - if they say "if you pass this, then we won't buy the naming rights to the bridge next year" okay. So don't. Another company likely will instead. NYC isn't a company town entirely dependent on one company, NYC is goddamn NYC, we have plenty of companies here and 8.4 million people you could advertise to. And if no one wants to pay for the naming rights (unlikely) - okay, then we go back to the old system that year and we redirect taxes toward the bridge. 4) Who handles where the money goes and who's handling the actual work - this question seems a little ridiculous to me. Someone in government will. I'm assuming the mayor and city council. It's not like taxation because this benefits the company. They get something out of this, this is a marketing cost. The only thing that was weird to me about this was that Sharpe said the wealthy already live in manhattan so it's the working poor who use the bridges to travel to and from Manhattan everyday. As far as I know, the working poor mostly don't own cars in NYC, they ride subways and buses. I imagine the people riding the bridges to be mostly middle class and upper middle class people.

Debate II: Electric Boogaloo

@lejigglyqueenteemo6029

3 жыл бұрын

Underrated

He's just so good at listing symptoms and dodging the systemic root

This dude’s solution for corporate malfeasance is to submit entirely to the moneyed interest and further empower the corporations. Not clean up corruption. Not get the money put of politics. No. To fix this, we’ve got to actually surrender to the people literally causing all the problems. Idiocy.

@spielunker8438

3 жыл бұрын

Evidently, the cure for cancer is *always* more cancer.

Last time I was this early, humans still loved in a glorious anarcho-primitivist society

@wartrix6046

3 жыл бұрын

You were so early you escaped the real world. ok

@JM-mh1pp

3 жыл бұрын

You mean dying in childbirth and always being on the verge of starvation?

@smoltiddytrangf6993

3 жыл бұрын

@@JM-mh1pp this just sounds like the world RN

@JM-mh1pp

3 жыл бұрын

@@smoltiddytrangf6993 Are you on the verge of starvation? Because from what I have seen a lot of the world has opposite problem. And child mortality? Compared to any other time in history it is non existent. You are living in golden age and you do not even see it. In any other time in history greater percentage of people were suffering than now.

@Sergio-nb4hj

3 жыл бұрын

@@JM-mh1pp imagine getting this worked up over a meme lmao

vaush attacking chat less than 30 seconds into the video... _check.._

Mans name is literally Liberian Larry, this is gonna be great

What he wants for advertisement is what happens in the dystopian movie Idocracy

Am I tripping or did the video title change instantly? How did I possibly get here too late?

@cjboyo

3 жыл бұрын

He makes the notification different than the title of the video

I appreciated the civil tone and good faith demonstrate here. Thanks to both speakers.

Seriously one of the best and enjoyable convos I have ever heard from any channel. Calm and different ideas that I haven’t considered.

Thank you for having a debate with Larry Sharpe. It’s good to see competing ideas duke it out.

Me: Whelp, let's see how this goes *Guy wants to lease NY bridges to Pepsi to pay for them* Me: Wow, we went from 0 to Batshit in under 10 min. This is gonna be a wild one huh? *Update* "Vaush, the rich are constantly weaseling out of their taxes! So my plan is to give those people MORE power and trust them to fix our infrastructure directly!" Holy fuck, I'm not even at the 1 hour mark yet! Send help! *Update* This man has admitted that companies are monopolizing industries....but still thinks that "vote with your dollar" bullshit is true. Huh....my nose is bleeding.

@georgekostaras

3 жыл бұрын

I gotta admit that's something you'd see in a Cyberpunk dystopian book or film. It feels like something from the movie Robocop.

@williamy3947

3 жыл бұрын

How Vaush didnt burst out ROFLMAO during that rant, is a testament of his greatness.

@c0ttage

3 жыл бұрын

The Brooklyn Bridge brought to you by Pepsi

@banurobymusic

3 жыл бұрын

he didnt argue leasing bridges to companies, he wants to name the bridge after companies for money, e.g. Bridge Coke Zero

@BarkleyBCooltimes

3 жыл бұрын

Maybe it's because I'm not a corporation but why would any company want to pay for the naming rights of a bridge?

Jokes aside, I always end up and notice other fellow anarchists having great debates with good faith libertarians- at least when the good faith is on this level on both sides. I enjoyed this.

I feel like this guy based his ideal world on that episode of Futurama where Fry had the underwear ad beamed into his dreams

"I'm making this up, I don't have the details ..." Ya don't say LOL

This man sounds like if nyc was a person.

@Mars-fu8wb

3 жыл бұрын

Facts bro

@stoneman472

3 жыл бұрын

I can't agree to that. There was an extreme lack of yelling vowels.

This guy has no real arguments against taxes, he just doesnt like the concept of taxation from an emotional and ideological place. And isnt that the problem with all libertarians in that they think taxes are evil and wrong on a conceptual level?

@carolyntalbot947

3 жыл бұрын

☝️This. 🏆🥇

@stoneman472

3 жыл бұрын

You pretty smacked that nail square on the head.

@mrfrostrunner5192

3 жыл бұрын

@@travistravinyle4207 taxation ain't theft tho.theft is defined by the law, the law doesn't define tax as theft. If you reject that please consider the fact that taxes pay for a lot of shit you probably use on the regular, namely Infrastructure such as roads and bridges, Law enforcement such as police and the military, and firefighters or certain hospitals. If you think a public or privatized option would be better, consider what happens when a corporation gets that much power. They become the government, when they provide everything, they define the laws and then your paying the business "taxes" to pay for the bridges. The whole difference here is we can hold the government accountable and have even a small say in the government. People have little to no say when it comes a megacorp.

I'm glad this stayed pretty civil. It's rare that Vaush has the chance to have a genuine conversation with someone whose positions are significantly different, but reasonable.

This dude lives in a magical christmas land.

The short sightedness of this guy. "I hate monopolies, the government is a monopoly so let's get rid of it". Let's ignore that the only way monopolies and cartels are ever broken up is by the government...

@SplotPublishing

3 жыл бұрын

Forgets that the owner of our govt monopoly is ultimately us. Can't say that about those other monopolies.

@bobwilliams8940

3 жыл бұрын

The government is THE monopoly

@bobwilliams8940

3 жыл бұрын

@@SplotPublishing that’s what it should be, yet the Afghan war has lasted over 10 years despite the majority of Americans opposing it. That seems like bullshit at this point. At least with companies, there is the small possibility of them going out of business if they fuck up too much.

@albar428

3 жыл бұрын

@@bobwilliams8940 We are leaving Afghanistan for good, in a few months actually, companoes protested because they still want sign contracts, companies made a lot of noney off of the war on terror.

@LyricalDJ

3 жыл бұрын

@@bobwilliams8940 I'd say the idea is to fix the government, not turn to corporations as our 'saviours'.

Texas just gave us a great example of what happens when you think like this guy.

Wow an actual fun conversation. I enjoyed this.

I actually respect Larry Sharpe for at least believing the things he is saying and trying to present what he THINKS are actual solutions. But ultimately, every one of his ideas gives corporations more power, not less. Taxing corporations reduces the money they have to lobby with and reinforces the role of governments OVER corporations. Governments should not be asking corporations for money, nor should they be vying to make themselves "advertisable" this should NOT be the relationship government should have with business.

Straightforward titles are back!

As a City Planner this dude talking about getting Pepsi too fund a bridge and freight train on the tube, was just infuriating, in how nonsensical that was.

Inject this straight to the vein. I’ve been suffering major withdrawal since Sam Seder hasn’t debated a libertarian in a while.

Larry Sharpe was born in '68, the Vietnam War ended in '75. He must have been the most cognitient toddler since he was that aware of the surrounding world at age seven. At age seven my world was my parents, my school, and my immediate surroundings.

Am I the only one freaking out and confused about the pepsi thing??? Can someone explain it?

@katyungodly

3 жыл бұрын

He wants our infrastructure to be funded by giant corporations that "can't" even afford to pay their workers a living wage.

Larry has clearly never seen the 2006 dystopian classic, “Idiocracy” because that’s literally all I could envision when he was talking about corporations branding everything 🤦🏻‍♀️

8:30 As an native of Atlanta, I would have been down with his whole break plan if he said Coca-Cola

Vaush needs to up his volume. I watched this and clicked a video elsewhere and my speakers exploded me.

This guy literally has know idea how infrastructure is built. He needs to have one conversation with a civil engineer.

@haydens5321

3 жыл бұрын

Hearing him talk about making an entirely new metro system in NYC was fucking comedy. This guy has no foundational knowledge of anything he’s talking about. He’s the embodiment of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

@marsuss5325

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah considering a metro vehicle is cosiderably lighter compared to a high yield freighttrain and one runs on electricity and the other on diesel. Also dont both have very different kinds of "rollers" (i have no idea what they are called) under them?

@georgekostaras

3 жыл бұрын

He’s a businessman not a engineer

@limelad37

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I think that's the big misunderstanding behind many of his weird ideas.

@blargh3428

3 жыл бұрын

@@georgekostaras More proof that we shouldn't be listening to businessmen when it comes to running the country. It also REALLY doesn't require an engineer to see the problems with this.

“Debate” *nervous sweating*

Unironically a worthwhile conversation. Enjoyed this as a break from youtuber deathmatches 👍🏼

this was a decently good one, good faith on both sides, loads of interesting stuff. good refresher

Listening to the first idea from this guy and i knew exactly where this was going

I love the debates they concede to all your points "but..."

Another great conversation Vaush 👏

larry went from vaguely based to pepsi bridge in the blink of an eye

This might be my lack of business acumen showing, but if I were a CEO and someone said “hey do you want to rent the Brooklyn Bridge? You don’t get any special benefits from it, besides ad space, and if it falls apart you get all the blame.” I’d tell them to go to hell.

This was actually a pretty good debate. The other dude does seem genuine but just disagrees with how to improve the USA. Wish there was more debates like this and less tankies going “genocide bad 🥺UwU”

What a great conversation - two people actually listening to each other's viewpoints. More of this, please.

I loved this debate. Great listen.