Kickstarter is supposed to be for startups, not companies that already have money to take presales. It's in the name. They seem to be using Kickstarter exactly as intended.

Scotty, Kickstarter really is for exactly this, if not worse. An idea is Kickstarted. It's not amazon, you're not buying a product. You're investing into an idea. You are a beta tester, that means there WILL be problems which is exactly what you got so... What's the problem. I belive Micronics have been more than transparent and really didn't need to be at all. Hopefully you guys get it together.

@riakata

4 күн бұрын

They have not been. They literally said the powder is safe the fan is ""hepa"" while neglecting the fact it is all very poorly designed for dust containment and people will get lung cancer or give everyone some cancer by trying to wash the parts in water instead of getting a sandblaster.

@Hellmark

2 күн бұрын

Especially with something like this, where it is prerelease.

@chainmaillekid

2 күн бұрын

I think this (the suggestion that kickstarter products need to be production ready) was the biggest fault with this video, and the only one that stood out to me. He says it doesn't line up with his past experience, and that's fair. But its also never a bad idea to talk about the dangers of backing projects on kickstarter, and reminding people that backing a project isn't a purchase.

@SyncA81

Күн бұрын

Have they been transparent tho? Seems like they haven't been transparent towards Scotty. And it seems they, at least at some point, promised to have ended R&D and are ready to move to production. That was clearly not the case at the time of shooting this video.

after watching micronics' new video on this matter, I'm leaning more to their side than yours - mostly because of their true transparency

@jamess5872

5 күн бұрын

Scott's concern isn't invalid, he might have approached it with a bit more patience but overall it was a healthy exchange.

@georgemathieson6097

5 күн бұрын

@@jamess5872 it seems to me as though he had pre-existing stresses and this unfortunately compounded on top of them - which lead to his misinterpretation of microtronics' intentions

@XecularOfficial

5 күн бұрын

@@jamess5872 That depends on which concern. His concerns regarding the kickstarter were entirely invalid, because he is incorrectly implying that releasing his video after the beginning of the kickstarter would be meaningfully harmful to people backing the project. He also treats the unit he received like it's meant to be a fully complete product when it is very clearly an early pre-production unit meant for testing purposes. Micronics even says in their campaign video that they just finished their R&D phase and are ready to move towards production, which is exactly where reliability or logistics issues like are usually worked out

@georgemathieson6097

5 күн бұрын

@@jamess5872 I've just realised that my response from earlier has been removed. It roughly read "it seems as though he had pre-existing stresses which were unfortunately compounded by this - explaining his potential misunderstanding of microtronics' intentions"; the fact that my comment was removed speaks volumes.

@kyledavis417

5 күн бұрын

Definitely lost some respect for him after watching the response video

I gotta say, watching the troubleshooting over the phone was one of the most relatable things I've seen in a long time. The "I have no idea why it's only not working in this one situation" kind of thing... been there, done that.

@riakata

4 күн бұрын

That is a sign or inexperience on the mfg part . It's a tolerance and fitment issue it works outside because it isn't constrained.

Whenever you need to use the "hammer method" on a 3D printer, you know you are in for an adventure. 😎

@anthonyp4209

12 күн бұрын

I believe that is known as the engineers tap

@Joliie

12 күн бұрын

Clarkson would be a 3D Printer god.

@dr_gotheem3899

12 күн бұрын

@Joliie "the last of the mechanical 5-series...you could mend it with a hammer"

@herzberd

12 күн бұрын

​@@anthonyp4209 I've always gone with "percussive maintenance" 😅

@riakata

4 күн бұрын

On a flammable toxic dust containing box using a hammer is a very bad idea. Imagine it breaking and letting a mountain of dust loose.

Wasn't Kickstarter exactly for this kind of product: it's like 80% done but now to finish it the project needs money and commitment from buyers. I hope they finalize the product within like a year and then ship the units to backers. While I love Bambu printers, using Kickstarter to just basically get pre-orders in is not what Kickstarter is meant for

@Yaren2580

9 күн бұрын

They state "Our R&D phase is complete, and we're ready to increase production immediately." in their campaign...

@savejeff15

9 күн бұрын

@@Yaren2580 I work in product development and finishing R&D phase you are like 50% done. Then you go into pre-production and find a ton of problems that only appear when you produce more than a couple units. Its different from developing the product. After that you produce a small batch of beta Prototypes. If these go well you go Into full production. From what I'm seeing they are done with R&D but have a lot of work to do before production

@gorak9000

8 күн бұрын

Kickstarter is meant to make money for kickstarter, and if people contribute to any project on there, regardless of the outcome of said project, kickstarter has their share of the money, and thus met the goal of what kickstarter is for

@funguy398

7 күн бұрын

Production phase differs from R&D, other problems, other solutions.

Hey Scotty, thanks for checking out our printer! There are definitely manufacturing related issues that we plan on addressing before launch. Here are a few major ones: Regarding the auger auger jam, it is likely caused by too tight of a clearance between the auger and the auger tube. We did overnight ship a replacement auger the following Monday after this issue and that completely addressed the auger jamming issue. We made the clearance quite small because early on, we had issues of powder going back down the auger when it's not spinning. Later during testing, we found that it's actually caused by the shape of the powder inlet, not the clearance. This means we can increase the clearance and reduce the likelihood of jams. It probably also got bent during shipping, so we plan on improving our shipping brackets to prevent this from happening again. We also do plan on integrating the auto-reverse function into the build unit PCB, which would allow it to automatically un-jam itself even if it does happen. For the FDM printed sift bin, yeah that is a common issue and we should have tested shipping it beforehand - we take 100% responsibility on that one. We haven't had time to redesign it, but we did also ship out a replacement bin overnight together with the replacement auger and that arrived intact (though probably still fragile) For the production machines, we plan on switching to reaction injection molding (RIM), or adding sheet metal inserts to the FDM prints to reinforce it. That would make it much more durable. We will also of course improve our shipping (putting the heavy powder bottle in the sift bin for shipping turned out to be a bad idea). The last issue regarding the powder flipper. After some diagnosing, it turned out to be clearance between the powder flipper and bushings that is causing it to jam up. During testing, we found that the loose press fit of the bushing into the sheet metal would cause the bushing to spin in the sheet metal (accelerating wear), as opposed to the shaft spinning in the bushing. So, we used some adhesives to fix the bushings in place as that should get it tight enough to where the shaft would spin as expected - turns out that caused more issues than it fixed since now it is just binding and causing the gears to skip. This is still an issue we are working with scotty to resolve - we will likely send out a replacement powder flipper. (We are currently travelling to open sauce) I think it is also good to see that the machine is relatively easy to take apart and maintain in the event that things do wrong. Parts will be readily readily available from us and are not locked in firmware. Overall, there are a a few manufacturing related issues that is solvable by working with our sheet metal and CNC shop at higher quantities so we can dial it in. In hindsight, we should have taken more time with QC and made sure everything is perfect, but we have learnt our lesson. We asked for more time to test the printer, which would have likely delayed the video, such that we would have more time to resolve the remaining issues and get it to print reliably. It was never our intention to obscure the flaws with this beta production unit. Perhaps when we mentioned that we wanted the machine back (since we were under the impression that you were no longer interested in investing more time into troubleshooting, which turned out to not be the case), that the conversation turned the wrong way. But, we did clear up this misunderstanding the following day and later suggested that you release the video on the morning before launch - which we are glad you did! After kickstarter completes, we do plan on running another round of beta testing before shipping, which is why we are stating 8-12 months delivery after KS. This would give us a chance to iron out all the issues that scotty and other creators have experienced with this first generation of beta machines and would allow us to deliver well function machines to those of you who back our KS campaign. Let us know if guys have any other questions!

@strangerparts

12 күн бұрын

Thanks for the honest response here guys! Looking forward to meeting you at Open Sauce. Edit: However, I’m not sure it’s accurate to represent this as “all a misunderstanding”. But I do think we’re on the same page now, and are continuing to work together to get my unit working. I know that this is your guys first time building a company and a product, and your first time working with creators and product reviewers, and I appreciate that you’re learning how to do that as you go. As I’ve said privately, honesty and transparency are the most important things here, both with creators and reviewers like me, and with your backers and customers. If you really embrace that, I think this is all gonna turn out well in the end.

@AnnaVannieuwenhuyse

12 күн бұрын

This response does clear a lot of things up! Thanks for addressing the issues in an honest way. If the plan is not to switch to injection moulding for the production sifter bin units, then at the very least consider optimizing the geometry of the walls. The flat walls are very very prone to breakage between the layers if the layers are printed with weak adhesion (which is a possibility if you're printing a huge part like this in a reasonable time frame). There's *TONS* of people in a lot of communities that can help you with these geometry issues, and we're all willing to provide you with input on this! Let me know if you'd like me to shoot you a message.

@KeithSachs

12 күн бұрын

And im looking forward to meeting you at Open Sauce! Will you be there friday night? ​@@strangerparts

@802Garage

12 күн бұрын

@@AnnaVannieuwenhuyse I agree that FDM printing the bin is not the issue. Adding strength in the design of the print itself could definitely solve the strength issues. If there are layer adhesion issues as well, material choice and tuning for the printers they use could largely solve that.

@ProtonOne11

12 күн бұрын

What i learn from this is that taking the time to actually do more QC on every aspect, even things like shipping that you can consider an aftertought, is very important. Now you have a bunch of videos out that show damaged machines / parts and no good customer experiences. I highly doubt once a wide audience gets theyr machines you would have time and ressources to do on call support for everyone, leaving customers frustrated with the company and product. I hope you make it, but from what i have seen so far, this needs to still get a lot of details ironed out, and i would not want to pay thousands of dollars and then babysit and debug a prototype machine.

I watched their side of the story and quite frankly I think you haven't been completely fair or transparent. This isn't a final product and kickstarter backers can cancel their pledge until the last moment free of charge. I think delaying the video a bit so that they could address their issues is only reasonable.

@itsciwi

4 күн бұрын

I don't know about you man, but I research kickstarters before I back them. I'm not looking for videos weeks after I've backed something. "You can cancel your pledge" is true, but not honest. Micronics are making out like Scotty did them dirty, while conveniently ignoring that sending the printer to a youtuber is a commercial exchange. I'm far more appreciative of what Scottys transparency revealed.

@brozadude

3 күн бұрын

@@itsciwi I only backed kickstarter campaigns twice, but both times I was monitoring the project and supervising it overtime. We're not talking about cancelling a video, but just delaying it a bit to give them a chance to solve their issues. I don't think these people are trying to avoid their responsibility.

@ssjaken

3 күн бұрын

Always has a feeling strange parts turned into a content mill. Sad day he did some much damage to a tiny two man startup because he's incompetent

@itsciwi

3 күн бұрын

@@brozadude I don't think they're trying to avoid responsibility either. In all likelihood poor communication and mismatched expectations probably played a big role here. But I don't think Scotty did anything wrong showing his real experience. I can't see how he misrepresented anything and from my point of view their response does not fill me with confidence. I would much rather see this video now and a follow up in 2 weeks saying "They fixed it, all is good".

@itsciwi

3 күн бұрын

@@ssjaken Buddy, WHAT!? The kickstarter is at 1.3 million. They'll be juuuust fine 😂

I feel like I've been living under a rock, I thought the whole point of kickstarter was "here's a product we're developing, we've gotten as far as we can on our own money and it seems promising, help us fund the r&d to go from prototype to market"

@ClockworkGFX

11 күн бұрын

The last half-decade has turned it into a marketing tool and a pre-sales platform. It's also super common to get scammed and go have nothing to show for your money which is why it's dangerous that people think it's a place to pre-order stuff that's in production. Kickstarter takes 0 responsibility and does no policing. See all of the massive failed board game Kickstarters that have ran off with millions when poor management bankrupt the companies.

@Stellar_Lake_sys

11 күн бұрын

@@ClockworkGFX I know it's common to get nothing, either by the idea being bust or it being a scam. it feels like a lot of the projects I heard about using it for r&d money weren't that long ago, but I could believe a lot of that stuff was like 5-8 years ago

@ClockworkGFX

11 күн бұрын

@@Stellar_Lake_sys I don't think I've personally heard of any majorly successful Kickstarters that were R&D type products since easily before COVID tbh

@Stellar_Lake_sys

11 күн бұрын

@@ClockworkGFX yeah, I'd believe it. I think for me it's just that not hearing much means the last time I did hear about one still feels recent, and no one hypes generic presale campaign #5372 in the same way as a real r&d project, so the shift just went silently like so much in the last couple years

@ClockworkGFX

11 күн бұрын

@@Stellar_Lake_sys yeah, I'm mostly experienced in the board game sphere of KS. Usually there if it's all about those funded in X minutes boosts. It's why you'll see campaigns with goals for enough money that will only produce maybe 200 units, because generally it's just that's marketing tool to build hype or skirt responsibilities to backers using the laxness of KS as a shield. Basically, in order to not have to pay backers back all you have to do is show that you kind of tried a little and boom - sucks that all these people lost money but the company gets off with nothing. Even more shameful are scsmmers that do that, leave, re-brand, and try again.

I feel like Kickstarter has beeen misused in the past couple of years, by companies just for marketing, lokking at you elegoo, creality and more.I think a product is perfect for kickstarter when it is the yankiest form possible, while still mostly working. Joel only had a single problem and we can clearly see, that Micronics hasn't tested shipping their printer yet and are learning the hard way what postage does to anything (maybe since you are living so much in the nowhere shipping was also harsher on the printer). I want to like this and it also seems reasonably built, easily repairable.

@lucasvanbeers9906

12 күн бұрын

Complete agree

@Adderkleet

12 күн бұрын

It's the "first gen" (or "actually in Beta!") version. So it's going to be a pain for most people. You need to want it to work, and have the time to make it work. It's not at the casual level yet. Which is fine. But I also expected these types of kinks to be already worked-out based solely on their own videos. It's very nice to see a real-world use case.

@scratchfisch6425

12 күн бұрын

I 100% agree. They have working prototypes, but they need to improve on shipping durability (assuming Scotty's unit worked before shipping, which they would have tested given it's a prototype sent for review). This doesn't seem like one of those kickstarter projects dreamt up by marketing students with a bigger budget for CGI than RnD. There is definitely still a big risk they will get stuck in integration hell, and either miss their price target or go under before shipping their final units, but if people are aware of that, I see no issue with starting the kickstarter. (Although they could probably also get conventional venture capital, given they have working prototypes). I am, however, a bit concerned about how they handled their interaction with Scotty (mainly the attempt to delay the review until after the kickstarter); And see no issue with Scotty's video. He got a broken unit, did everything possible to troubleshoot. That there wasn't enough time before the Kickstarter launch to ship in replacements was their fault.

@HydrationAppreciator

12 күн бұрын

Yeah tbf I live in a fairly rural location, and the courier service[s] even managed to damage the Bambu X1C that I ordered, and that is one of the best packed devices I've seen. The shipping box looked like someone in the warehouse hit the corner with a baseball bat.

@testboga5991

12 күн бұрын

Absolutely agree. I've given up on Kickstarter once the stuff I backed actually started arriving more often then not.

Their response video tells a tale of a rushed review and a KZread pulled in many directions. It would be good to see this resolved in a nice way!

@riakata

4 күн бұрын

The micronics product is not safe the dust handling system is beyond jank and will cause lung cancer. Inert powders cause cancer because your body can't digest inert powders. The nylon is also flammable unlike what they claim.

@NigelTolley

3 күн бұрын

It doesn't cover one person with glory, that's for sure.

"It was working fine before we shipped it out!" - I have heard that many times. These companies need to get a "shake table" and put their products on it for a while to make sure their devices can survive shipping..

@lllllll396

12 күн бұрын

Yeah, for electronics running a HALT ain’t cheap but god damn does it feel good knowing your design can take a beating (-70 to 100C in 1 minutes at 10-30g)

@JohnChuprun

11 күн бұрын

No kidding - or just ship it around the world and back to you exactly as you plan to package it, then that's the one you do stress testing on. Cheaper alternative than shake tables and vibration testing, but very effective nonetheless.

@riakata

11 күн бұрын

FedEx has a shipping test center you can send packages to for a torture test involving massive drops simulated getting thrown out the side of a plane, falling off the back of a truck, getting vibrated to pieces. It is likely their tolerances are too tight and the auger is not strong enough to maintain shape and the act of putting it into the printer is bending it slightly too much it's a lot of sheet metal and if your not careful it can get all out of square pretty easily.

@andreasu.3546

11 күн бұрын

@@riakata "getting thrown out the side of a plane" - Parked or airborne?

@paulweston1106

11 күн бұрын

@@andreasu.3546 The state of some packages that arrive I would say whilst at 35k feet.

There is many a reason powder bed printers have remained elusive to the home gamer. I want to say thank you for having putting this out honestly.

@faultboy

12 күн бұрын

"There is many a reason powder bed printers have remained elusive to the home gamer." wat?

@zakariakhamees

12 күн бұрын

Not good with English myself but i think you're saying.. There are many reasons why powder bed printers have remained expensive to have for the hobbyist.

@conorstewart2214

12 күн бұрын

@@zakariakhamees that isn’t what they were saying. It is common to make a statement more eloquent than it has to be for comedic effect. They are saying that there are many reasons that powder bed printers have remained out of reach for home users and hobbyists.

@BearNPum

12 күн бұрын

@@conorstewart2214 Exactly. And some of those many reasons are on display here.

@darrend7352

12 күн бұрын

Hi folks, I work in a university with experience in both metal and polymer powders bed machines. In short, this machine is a death trap. I personally know people from the technology's infancy who were not aware of the health implications. They're either dead now, or on oxygen tanks with months of life expectancy remaining. No jokes, do not use this at home.

Yeahhh not sure about this one. Printer seems great and better than most things that are in the kickstarter phase. You’re kind of off on your stance about what kickstarter is used for. Also, as another engineer, seeing their dedication to fixing issues is all that really matters to me at this stage of the product lifestyle.

Love the openness with the community on your thoughts and findings. I do feel this is something that is usually overlooked or ignored by other reviewers when it comes to kickstarter campaigns.

@PeetHobby

11 күн бұрын

I have the feeling that some youtubers are downplaying the problems on purpose.

@christianpluguez

11 күн бұрын

@@PeetHobby yeah of course, it's been shown that a lot of smaller outlets downplay issues to keep a friendly relationship in fear of loosing sponsorships / free units. But with this printer I am happy to see that some of the larger channels are putting a *Buyer Caution* note in their video description. What Scotty pointed out with how the business is handling criticism is concerning. But the info is now out there.

@SgtTachi

9 күн бұрын

It's very showing how honest Scotty is, yet his review isn't on their Kickstarter page like the others. I get that it isn't positive but he also gives very reasonable looks forwards on how they can fix their problems, especially since they are currently over $1m on the kickstarter.

Seeing the all sheet metal construction, you know that there is most likely a lot of pressure to keep cost down. Sheet metal construction isn't bad and can be really cheap to manufacture while being very sturdy at the same time. But you often need to give more thought in the design phase, which is one of the reasons why it often isn't done. But I failed to see a lot of the design details that you would expect to see when trying to make sheet metal sturdy. Now, that might mean, the parts I saw in the video don't need to be that sturdy. But my guess concerning the auger jam issue is, that the chassis of the inner build chamber gets twisted when it is inserted in the machine. This would explain why the auger works outside of the machine.

@strangerparts

12 күн бұрын

Bingo, but you said it better than I could. I think this is likely the issue with the recoater faults. We've figured out that the flipper that moves the powder up from the auger to where the recoater arm could grab it is rubbing a bit on the wall of the slot it sits in. Henry suggested I file it down, but I haven't had the time to do it yet. Hopefully that fixes it, as it's like the 3rd or 4th fix for that issue we've tried.

@hackneo64

12 күн бұрын

Build chamber essentially needs more rigidity and bracing to keep it in tolerance is what you are saying.

@jamieclarke321

12 күн бұрын

@@strangerparts The fact they are still troubleshooting the machine with you shows they want to learn and understand the faults which is a positive move. I totally think this machine is ready for kickstarter, these guys could really benefit from a couple of hundred grand to help finalise the design

@gtjack9

12 күн бұрын

I think this is the expected quality for this stage of a kickstarter, hell, most companies only have an idea at this point. It important to take that in account when micronics were ballsy enough to send out review units.

@bikbikzikzik

12 күн бұрын

Or it's the opposite. When the inner is outside, it can bend and thus doesn't restrict movement. But when it's placed inside the machine, it can't bend, causing it to jam.

When he said, "This is not ready for anybody to buy" at 26:31, I would swear that sounded exactly like Jim Gaffigan

important notes to all: 1) it needs to be in a room with inlet and outlet filters. Even with that, always use masks when it is in use, no exception. 2) It is not ready yet, but soon it will be. So, they need to fix issues first.

@mabbasi_of

12 күн бұрын

The way how to move out the power is very dangerous. They still have a long way to go. And how they was covered with powder in the end is very worrying. This power should not find the way to your lunges in any way. It needs at least one year in further development, at least.

kzread.info/dash/bejne/fHqIu6urepqndto.html They made a response, and after seeing the unhidden messages that Scotty censored...

@riakata

4 күн бұрын

The mfg is still downplaying the safety and did admit to asking for a delay and then lying on why they did that. They are being unethical people will get lung cancer from this it's insane. All the reviewers got the same kn95 looking mask yet now they say n95. And their engineering controls and fume extractor are woefully janky.

@avaviel

3 күн бұрын

@@riakata Lung cancer?? Did you even watch the video I liked above? Lol and the biggest problem was the plastic box which is being fixed. This was an engineering sample, not a final product sample.

Henry will be hitting himself with a hammer every time the phone rings for technical support 🤯

Will be very interesting to see how this progresses! Kudos to Micronics for even taking on this project and bringing SLS to the masses. Kudos to Stranger Parts for being so honest in this review.

It is refreshing to see an authentic and ethical influencer on KZread who operates with integrity and a genuine concern for their audience. Your commitment to honesty and transparency restores my confidence in the platform as a valuable source of information and entertainment. Great review thank you

@rpals5412

11 күн бұрын

100% agree.

@martinsmith2948

11 күн бұрын

thank you!

@mrkthmn

8 күн бұрын

Ehhhhh, i wouldnt let one good egg restore your faith in the whole dozen. KZread is still riddled with people that are happy to ready a script for a buck and act like it's their own thoughts. This video is astronomically refreshing, but I im going to think of it as a very welcome break from the norm.

@XecularOfficial

5 күн бұрын

I don't know if he was mistaken or being deliberately misleading, but everything he said about the kickstarter was wrong. Releasing his video after the start of the kickstarter wouldn't have prevented anyone from getting a refund, which is in direct contrast to what he is claiming

@sorenhubble6531

5 күн бұрын

I recommend watching micronic's "what we'll change" video as they address some of the complications in working with him, as you'll see neither side is fully at fault

Thanks for still putting out this video and highlighting your experience. As a reviewer I really respect that you moved forward and showed the response to criticism that you received.

@username9774

7 күн бұрын

The video still was a bit dishonest in the way he made up his mind and couldn't be bothered to even write in the description that the auger problem have been fixed. As if he wrote the script before he actually tried to fix it. He also said he was entitled to this printer because he took a look at it so he deserves to keep it whatever happens, that felt really strange.

Thanks for the honest review

Massive respect for the honesty and openness.

obviously a prototype

@supersnail5000

12 күн бұрын

He can obviously only test it in the state they've sent it to him in, but if they want people to spend thousands for the promise of this printer shipping at some point in the future, we need to know the true state of it now. Either this feedback will help them improve their product, or is a warning to maybe wait a bit to see if they can fix the issues. Some issues are just fundamental to SLS, and those are obviously important to share before people go out and back the project.

@conorstewart2214

12 күн бұрын

So what if it is a prototype? They sent it to people to review, if it isn’t ready don’t send it for review, like they said though they are running out of money, so the kickstarter is just a cash grab with a product that isn’t ready. He reviewed it in the state it is in, exactly like he is supposed to do. There is no guarantee that the finished product will be any better than this anyway. I for one do not trust the company to ship a polished product now, especially with what has happened here, asking him to delay his review until after the kickstarter and guilt trip him by asking for it back because their work wasn’t appreciated. The company has proven that they don’t have good ethics so why would that change when it comes to developing and shipping the product?

@thomassmith9059

12 күн бұрын

Bummer. There is definitely a market for a “desktop “ SLS. However, I do not know if it is even possible to manufacture a precision machine like this at retail consumer prices. Based on the video it looks like they have some design quality issues. It appears from what I can see some re-engineering is needed. It really shouldn’t be sold until it can run print after print without fail.

@NigelTolley

12 күн бұрын

​@@thomassmith9059 It's a Kickstarter. Maybe you've forgotten the entire point of Kickstarter? Or you'd what, rather have it full of reshipped Chinese tatt?

@CarbonKevin

12 күн бұрын

Good on you for being fully upfront on the issues with this machine - they showed up on my radar recently, I was very interested (loosely considered backing), but this, along with the really small build volume, makes it a no for me. This company may eventually come up with a good product, but this version isn't it. You did the right thing here.

Thank you for a honest review and letting the community listen in on all the issues, along with the troubleshooting.

Thanks for being transparent with us. I really appreciate that!

Damn.... A $3k SLS metal printer would be so nice to have! Thanks for the honesty.

@strangerparts

12 күн бұрын

Me too! Unfortunately, metal SLS printing comes with a whole host of other concerns, namely most of the metal powders need to be kept in an oxygen-free environment - usually inert gases like argon. So I think it's gonna be a while before we see that at the home level.

@CROSpunkie

12 күн бұрын

The $3000 price is also bullshit, it's only the "super early bird" price. So they basically haven't announced what the printer will really cost.

@testboga5991

12 күн бұрын

If you need the printer to be at 3k, you're too poor to run it anyways. Metal SLS --> just order it.

@testboga5991

12 күн бұрын

​@@CROSpunkieif it's significantly more expensive, it will fail. Professionals Don't buy experimental products, hobbyists can order a lot of SLS parts off JLCPCB or whoever before recovering the cost. How many parts have to be truly SLS in the end? For me it's like 5% and the rest I can do with FDM and MSLA.

@CROSpunkie

12 күн бұрын

@@testboga5991 I just saw the kickstarter go live, MSRP $4499. This shit is straight up a scam.

Had a friend who designed his own powder bed fusion metal powder printer and the powder, auger and layer systems on these machines are EXTREMELY finicky as in a just a few microns of powder depositing wrong or like in this case an auger jam require hours of maintenance to fix. There is a reason these type of printers are used only in specialized manufacturing shops with loads of tech support behind them.

really appreciate your honesty and the fact that you filmed your whole experience / bug fixing with the product.

Thank you for the honesty, the 3D printer KZread community needs more of it.

Thanks for making an honest review! As an engineer as well I agree I think this needs a bit more time to sort out some elements of the hardware; especially the augur since that's really the "heart" of the system. But I think the sifting tray is a relatively simple fix; a simple molded container would work since it doesn't require tight tolerances and could just use simple gaskets for the lid and sifting section. The most concerning aspect of this IMO is their response to you when they asked for the system to be returned. It would have been incredibly simple to say, "Hey we value your feedback but wanted to get the system back to take a closer look at and figure out what's going on. We'll plan to get you a replacement when we have an updated version!" It sounds like they may be under a lot of pressure due to the financial limitations ahead of the kickstarter, which maybe translated to them being less courteous, but as engineers we should always value quality feedback and user testing that could be used to improve the products. All that said, as someone who's kickstarted dozens of products, this doesn't look that far off from some of the other products I've seen at launch. I actually applaud them for sending out physical hardware for testing since many kickstarters still use simulated videos/functionality of hardware that's even earlier in development than the Micron. So I'm usually OK having my money go towards a bit more development rather than just being a preorder. Thanks again for making such an honest and detailed video about the product, this is actually a great example of exactly what prototype development/engineering is like (usually within the company, though) so it's pretty cool to have an example that others can see of that process!

@ryelor123

11 күн бұрын

You also have to keep in mind that they're worried that people will try to make money off of exaggerating problems or making up problems that don't exist in order to make the videos more profitable. That's one major issue with dealing with KZread reviewers. They also probably wanted to dissect a broken machine to find out how to fix it. When a company is honest about their financial situation, the last thing you should do is tell them to buy more money.

Thank you for sticking to your guns and getting this video out before the kickstarter is done.

@kasperhuizinga6731

5 күн бұрын

the dates they suggested were before the end of the kickstarter, but after the start of it. they arent trying to screw anybody over

I greatly appreciate the rawness and honesty of this.

Just saw that they'll be at Open Sauce, super excited to hear a qualified opinion!

Always good honest reviews from Scotty, integrity has no price with some, and Scotty is on that list. Shady practises should be called out - you're helping not hindering. Keep up the sterling work.

I appreciate the honest review, but I think the way you see kickstarter completely defeats the purpose of it. I see it as a platform for companies with an idea, maybe a prototype, and looking for funding

@supersnail5000

12 күн бұрын

He explains this all at the end of the video, he believes that based on his correspondence with them that they believe this is much closer to production than it actually is. If that's the case and they are essentially using Kickstarter to take preorders on a flawed product because they are running out of funds, it's important people know that so they don't get burned. The problem with the original Kickstarter concept was that, even with good intentions, the road to go from an early prototype to a shipping product can be arduous. Spending multiple thousands of dollars on an idea isn't a smart investment for the average customer, particularly if they are attempting to mislead what state the current product is in. If a large investment firm wants to take a punt on a company like this based just on an idea then that's their prerogative, but an average person shouldn't be taking on that risk under the belief that they are being sold a tangible product.

@ProtonOne11

12 күн бұрын

I guess it's a bit different to drop 100$ on a good idea, or spending over 3000$ on a product idea. At that price point, most investors would want to get something that works as advertised. Unless you are a millionaire and just don't care at all about money...

@samroesch

12 күн бұрын

SwissMak comes to mind. People got nothing for their large sums of money. People looking for low cost printer generally don’t have bags of cash to spare or they would buy the commercial option.

@jasonthomashorn4794

12 күн бұрын

Its the quid-pro-quo, the request to return the review unit based on the video that puts expectations of a finished product rather than one in progress. The should delay, or be very up front that it's a ALPHA product.

@timonsku

12 күн бұрын

Its fine to say you need funding for development but it sounds like they want to market this as a basically done machine that ships soon. That is a very different risk for funders which needs to be very clearly communicated.

Very good honest and clear hands on experience. No fluff. I love it. Really helpfully.

If you really wanted to love it, that would mean giving tech support proper time and response. Seems like you wanted to love getting the video out more than you wanted to love the product.

@riakata

4 күн бұрын

You have to remember micronics wants to sell as many as possible so... Safety who cares about sufficient local exhaust. Also they gave all the KZreadrs kn95 masks that likely are not fit tested so they all got a bit of cancer dust that will be in all their studios long term since every sifter bin leaked basically. If I was a KZreadr that trusted their instructions and read about the actual hazards I would actually take them to small claims court.

Man, what a great service to the community, while still trying to help the company in a constructive way even though they are maybe a bit panicked and trying to cover their butts a bit. I do think it's an amazing attempt at this and it seems like it's close, but some serious detail work on the tolerances, etc is needed. I do hope they succeed. I was almost ready to put down my dollars on this, but I want to see some really solid reviews from you and others first... I think the team should seriously consider sending a second round of review units out with the lessons they've learned here and let the community see it's in a better state of revision. It would go a looooong way to having people get over the hump on funding the kickstarter. You have always been authentic and honest and supportive to the community in your content and it's refreshing in a very nebulous world of funding, sponsorships, quid pro quo, etc... Super appreciate you, man!!!!

Thank you for your transparency.

Thanks for the honest review. We will hold off (for now).

I am SO thankful for you putting this out. I have been looking at this printer for a few months and was waiting to see the kickstarter. It looked more ready than it was.

For what it's worth, and completely aside from the issues seen here, I run a Formlabs Fuse 1 at work and have also had hopper jams, recoater jams and faults, temperature errors, chamber pressure errors, surface defects, and after a couple years, they still have not updated the firmware to reconnect dropped wifi connections. They even replaced the entire printer under RMA after not being able to solve the aforementioned pressure problem which occurred a few days after the annual PM. I don't get good vibes from the request to send the printer back or delay the video. That said, these are not engineering problems unique to Micronics, that's for sure. edit: And thank you for the devotion to honesty and ethics in your videos! Extremely refreshing!

@XecularOfficial

5 күн бұрын

Seems like they wanted the printer back because he wasn't willing to wait for replacement parts and was being pretty rude to Micronics. I know I'd be upset if I sent a multi-thousand dollar printer that I spent years developing to a reviewer only for them to do nothing with it for several days because they decided something else was more important. I think the phrase "use it or lose it" fits this very well

Thanks for staying real with this one.

this troubleshooting was actually really interesting to watch

really enjoyed watching you debug it, looks promising if they can get it working

@WMSchoenhofer

12 күн бұрын

Really if his auger wasn’t messed up then the only problem was the fdm parts cracking, not really a big deal in my book. I hope they are successful in bringing nylon SLS to my shop (something that would have cost tens of thousands of dollars just a decade ago)

The fact that 1 of the main guys from this kickstarter company is willing to personally provide customer service to all these people... just shows how dedicated he is to make this printer come to life

Amazing work. Thankyou!

OMG I'm exhausted just from watching this!

Hopefully they will be able to work out all of the kinks, I can already see a few parts that need to be improved like packaging and tolerances. They would probably also be aided by making the parts most prone to failure open source / repairable. Cant wait to see where they are in a few years!

@Matty-Realise

12 күн бұрын

Yeah I mean they’ve sent out replacement bins and other parts to some reviewers after complaints, I think them sending them it is to find the problems and fix them before shipping to consumers hopefully

Thanks for beeing honest

You did a good job documenting your troubles and spoke fairly about the unit's short comings. Thanks for posting.

Im glad you are open and stand up to companies like this.

Great to see a video on this channel always Happy to see

Man I was getting SLS parts made last MILLENIUM. I see why it's taken so long to get down to anything like a home gamer price.

@BeefIngot

12 күн бұрын

One of those things I bet when no company believes there is a market because no one has done it right yet. Also, no established company wants to kake it cheap as it would eat their margins. Worse yet for them, there isnt a thriving home gamer community to pull from like there would be for fff.

Glad to be on board this journey with you, as a very very green maker it inspires me watching someone so seasoned still have problems and finding ways to fix it. Keep it up

As a mechanical designer I approve of your words. Sincere and honest.

I would love to see the like to dislike ratio

@Cosmicfude

4 күн бұрын

5k likes, 206 dislikes as of posting this comment

Leaving a comment to show audience engagement in an effort to make the algorithm happy.

@DennisPamlin

12 күн бұрын

An even more happy algorithm as there are comments on comments....

@Sahko123

12 күн бұрын

@@DennisPamlin or even deeper comments to those comments

@pizzanik

12 күн бұрын

Appreciate the honesty!

A couple years ago this much troubleshooting was just the norm with fdm printers. We’ve become spoiled with all the plug-and-play printers that you can get nowadays! I really hope they work out the kinks. I wouldn’t imagine that it’d be too hard to get some venture capital for this project either- there’s clearly been a huge reception to it

This vid was really honest and I appreciate that. Keep up the work

I don't have a dog in this race, but I'm off to watch LTT's shortcircuit review on this printer. And I know you've been putting out videos for a while now, but it really is great that your health has improved and you're back at doing what you love.

Scotty, Love your transparency here. Making videos like these is never easy, and thank you for being honest and up front. Clearly Micronics has some work to do and that is 100% okay. I agree that the norm for KS is that it is a polished product, before it goes to the KS itself, but I think that is just because nowadays companies use KS as marketing and not for its intended purpose: to help fuel production and product dev. In my opinion, I think the Micronics team likely had the best intentions, but maybe the wrong delivery, but the message about wanting it back because you dont appreciate it does sting quite a bit as there is no real good way here to take that one.. I know the pain of getting lemon machines. It is a bummer the communications went the way they did. Now the ball is in the court of Micronics. We shall see how this plays out.

@scifimodelshop

3 күн бұрын

If you are running a KS for 4k printer it should be at least a working model with some minor bugs to work out! How can anyone fell good about taking in a large some of money and not send out a working product. I see a class action coming this way?

i really appreciate this video. i had their kick starter pulled up ready to back this machine... i will wait for a long time until they have ironed out the issues for what its worth i subscribed for you being so honest in this review.

I'm rooting for them, hope they're listening to the feedback and make it better

I had just finished watching 3d Printing Nerd with his. As he stated, it's a hand-built beta unit. He did have an issue, but was able to get through.

@strangerparts

12 күн бұрын

Yeah - I spoke to Joel a week or two ago. I've had WAY more issues with mine. I still haven't gotten it working. The print you see in this video is the only one I've had complete successfully. And I'm not sure I can even count how many prints I've started...

You did the right thing releasing the review before the kickstarter release. Hats off to you. You were more than patient with the manufacturer and as cool as the product may be, it is not production ready. Back to the drawing board they go, and I hope they send you rev #2 before the public release!

thanks for showing this troubleshooting process you went through with such high-quality footage, it works really well to explain how this printer works

Love this kind of content, even if the product is probably not ready for prime time (yet), I hope they get there. I'm always gonna wait for production unit reviews.

these comments expecting this to be like FDM printers are in 2024- this thing is a reprap era printer, totally new tech for the consumer market, nothing exists to build of off bar whet they've done themselves. printers sucked back in the early days and cost a fortune and this is gonna suck now. if you want desktop SLS with 2 decades of development, use and community engaugement, just wait another 20 years and then get one. if you want it now, you're gonna have to put up with imperfections. welcome to the world of early tech adoption.

While, I fully agree that this machine is not in a state that is acceptable to sell now, I also don't fully understand your point, isn't Kickstarter ment to get cash to "finish" a project? This feels like the perfect place for that project to get money to fix problems that make it unacceptable now and later ship a finished project. For me kickstarter was always like a early-access is to games. They beeing agressive to you and asking you for your printer back is a redflag tho.

@semibbc

5 күн бұрын

You should check out Microns video they made today

@riakata

4 күн бұрын

​@@semibbcyeah their video just painted them in the let's bend the truth and lie department about powder safety and n95 being overkill. People are going to get lung cancer from this. Micro plastic pollution will jump in waste water from misuse of the powder.

Thanks for the review

Valiant effort here! Great video, love the transparency and you definitely answered many questions I had about this machine. I'm very excited to see an affordable diy hobbyist SLS machine and hope this is the beginning of more low cost SLS machines. Completely agree with you on hoping this succeeds and like how you present the idea of backing this Kickstarter helps fund the development of a low-cost refined at home SLS machine. However, with that said This just might not be that product but could help create that product.

Was seriously considering grabbing 3 units for my shop from the kickstarter, after seeing how they responded to your honest feedback I'm definitely not now.

@severpop8699

10 күн бұрын

If you really want them to succeed in bringing this product to the market you will figure out a way to help them out nonetheless.

@thc_temple

10 күн бұрын

@@severpop8699 I definitely will not. Another company will come along with a similar product, without the sketchy stuff behind the scenes. That will be the company I support.

you did the right thing. Cool tech or not, if it don't work, it don't work.

@ryelor123

11 күн бұрын

That's why they're launching it on kickstarter and Best Buy.

I need to say that I think you treated this very fair. There is obviously an issue with the product and you openly communicated everything, including both sides and where you are coming from. I really like how you explained it all!

Many thanks for the honest review! I really hope they will fix the issues and the dream of affordable (and reliable) SLS printer will become true.

Honest reviews are rare these days so thank you. I hope they succeed and i think they will.

I've been following the development of this machine for a while now and was excited to see it in the hands of a reviewer! The machine in it's current state puts me in a strange predicament. I love the concept and want it to be developed further, but in it's current state I just can see dropping ~$3000 on it. I hope people with deeper pockets than me can make the kickstarter a success, because I would be very interested in a V2.

This review is a hitjob.

You are an awesome person to be up front with everybody. Always click when I see a new video from you. Wish you nothing but success.

Even if everything works perfectly, it's a bit of a funky process!

I kinda like the idea, but it looks kinda cumbersome, and then there's the errors on top.

@AnnaVannieuwenhuyse

12 күн бұрын

This is still a prototype, so what doesn't work now is used as feedback on how to improve.

isnt this going to be showcased at opensauce? i was watching william oswalds second channel video earlier today. and i think it was in it for a smoll showcase

@strangerparts

12 күн бұрын

Yes they'll have a booth there.

@Rosa_AI

12 күн бұрын

@@strangerparts thanks for the reply

clicked this video at 2am, dozed off and woke up to what sounded like the CIA defusing an explosive on a Nokia phone. 3d printing content has come a long way

I have seen a bunch of positive reviews of this, with zero actually running the machine. I love that we can always trust you to be truly honest and give very productive guidance. I feel really uncomfortable about them asking for it back, I understand the wanting to research what went wrong, but surely they could send you another unit before you return it? Most honest review of a product I have seen in a very long time. Good work Scotty.

I am extremely concerned with people using this in their living room, thinking that gloves and a covid mask is enough PPE to handle that powder. It's not. The particulates in that powder will forever linger in that room. You can vacuum up piles and dust surfaces but if used regularly, anyone using this in their house will develop some severe asbestos-like respiratory issues. In industry, these printers are handled in heavy duty clean rooms with full-body PPE, actual respirators and low-pressure environments.

I hope you address their reply, because you didn't seemed very transparent on your video, unlike them.

@Cosmicfude

4 күн бұрын

I mean he probably didn't want to post private communications. However it seems that the Micronics guys had their feelings hurt and it shows in their communication. They are a company and they need to act professionally. My issue is that just because you worked real hard on a project for years doesn't mean that someone who had issues with your product, means their opinion is invalid because of it. Micronics needs to hire a PR team and learn to correctly address problems when they arise. Hell they didn't even address Scotty's issues until the end of the video. I get it it's only a couple of people working on this project but you can't let personal feelings get in the way when you represent a company that is trying to bring a product to market. Also in the screenshot I saw on their video are not professional at all, and asking a reviewer to delay a "bad" review is always going to look bad on the company IMO.

@avaviel

4 күн бұрын

He does well on drama. I've noticed that about older videos.

@riakata

4 күн бұрын

The mfg is being non transparent they say the powder can't explode or catch fire and you read formlabs sls printer which uses essentially the same powder and they have a totally integrated cleaning station and still say a fire or explosion can occur if you don't follow the extremely detailed documentation properly. Miconics doesn't seem to think it's even dangerous in any way.

@lugui

4 күн бұрын

@@avaviel true.. this is the only reason I watched the video, to see if the accusations where real.. and look at us now.. engaging! praise the algorithm!!

@lugui

4 күн бұрын

"They are a company and they need to act professionally." They are also, 2 guys. 2 very real and briliant guys doing their best. at their scale, a review like that could kill their whole operation which is directly aimed at making a industry grade quality product for the consumer market at a _consumer market_ price tag. So far, to me it looks they did all they could to fix the problems caused by shipping and got a killing bad review for something that is only tangentially on their control. I hope they get to find a way to inprove their shipping process because the product is good when not damaged!

A great review. Man that’s concerning. They seemed desperate. And we all know a desperate company or person does not make good decisions. Huge potential but you were absolutely right to do this the way you did. We need more genuine creators like this

Thanks for honest review

I appreciate your honesty in this video so much Scotty. I know as a tech reviewer myself how hard it can be to be placed in this situation but you did the right thing. This company feels like it’s doing something similar to Robo3D and that wasn’t a good experience.

@strangerparts

12 күн бұрын

Yeah, these situations are tough. You end up with multiple parties you're trying to satisfy. And when things go sideways, and people are acting in sketchy ways, it sometimes makes it impossible to make everyone happy. But ultimately, the viewers have to come first. Because without them, none of this matters.

Yeah definitely a prototype, they recently spoke to Will at open source which they are having a booth at this year, and we're telling him that they are still very early stages The fact that they have a pretty unit that they can ship out to people to show the concept is honestly beyond me how they got this far this fast

I really hope that they can resolve their issues, and I'm extremely appreciative of your honest appraisal that they are not there yet.

@conorstewart2214

11 күн бұрын

Judging from what other people are saying, people who have worked with SLS machines extensively, there are large issues with it in regards to safety that won’t be easy or possible to resolve and they make it not very suitable for home use. The powders used can be very dangerous, just wearing a mask and gloves is not suitable protective measures.

The Kickstarter is already above 970k€, so they pretty much won't be having any issues. I understand its hard to make such a review as fellow maker and engineer, but based on the comments you made and that were written here in the comments as well, I also have an icky feeling about this whole thing. Hopefully it turns out to be an awesome device in the end! Props to Scotty for sticking to his principles!

Im almost 100% its jamming because the motor is not strong enough, and it works only out of machine because your power supply is giving more amps than internal source in machine

Just a reminder kickstarter is meant to support a product that needs money to help make it a reality (hence “kick starter”), I think it was good that you made this video as transparency is important too.

Thanks for actually having a spine. I really hope they can get their stuff in order, this product does deserve a future.

You know what would have been a banger marketing idea? Send out these units to creators like you, and ask them to point out bugs, like you suggested at the end of the video. But, ask the creators to do it in video form, and ask them to stress that the shortcomings of this unit is why they need the kickstarter, to get resources to turn this really great base idea into a viable product. And asking creators to publicly criticize the printer with the aim of improving it would probably shine a much more positive light on the company and instill faith in potential backers.