I retired early at age 45. I have over 2.4 mill in pre-tax, 300k+ in Roth IRAs, 600k+ in after-tax. I plan on doing conversions every year. Here's some considerations that merit additional discussion: 1) Your tax bracket matters. Early on, while you have kids as dependents, you can pay almost no taxes for large AGIs. For example, a family of 5 would owe $0 in taxes at an AGI of 90K+. Once your 60+ and if you are no longer with your spouse, you tax brackets are way way way worse. 2) Roth IRA conversion ladder is a great way of being able to access your 401k money without penalty, if you are an early retiree. 3) Health Care. In the ACA, you can go from paying $0 to paying $20K+ for a year depending on your AGI. For example, at an AGI of 49K for a family of 5 it's free, at 90K it's 8K+. 4) The state you live in matters. Maybe consider moving, if it's an option, to a low tax state when doing a very very large conversion. Let's say you live in CT and you wanted to convert 1mill, this would cost you at least 55,000 in just state taxes. I would rather put that 55k into a property in a no tax state. 5) Why not have both Roth and pre-tax. Who knows what the tax policy landscape will be later on. By having both, I can control my taxable AGI very easily to fit the tax landscape. For example, let's say I needed 90k per year to live. I could pull 50k from my 401k and 40k from my Roth to survive, but I would only be taxed on my 50k 401k distribution.

@RobertShrimpton

2 жыл бұрын

All excellent points! And probably better points than the guy in the video above was making (he really should have rehearsed his script some more before hitting the record button).

@narika7383

2 жыл бұрын

Wow....how did you get so much money to grow in your Roth IRA so fast?!!!

@rlvtrader

2 жыл бұрын

@@narika7383 Just keep putting money away each year and keep it invested. It's amazing how it grows over time.

@rlvtrader

2 жыл бұрын

@@HB-yq8gy My father just died from Covid. He was 66, and was going to retire, but he had auto-immune issues and Covid destroyed him. I feel so bad that he never got to see a penny of SS and he had no living spouse so it all stays with the government. I begged him to retire earlier to enjoy some life without work, but it never happened. So my response will be tainted by this. I'm not a SSI expert so I won't provide advice here for this, except that since your spouse does have an auto-immune issue you need to be realistic that her life-span might be drastically cut short and consider how that affects your survivor benefits, if any. As far as ROTH IRA conversions, the best time is when there is a market downturn. We are having a nice correction now which provides an interesting opportunity. I actually did some moves recently to my Roth.

@rlvtrader

2 жыл бұрын

@Neil Stewart Sorry, I just don't have it in my to communicate beyond here. It's was over a month of pain :( I'm just trying to recover now. As far as the ROTH Ladder, I'm also learning friend. Controlling your AGI is key. Use the H&R and Turbo Tax estimators to see what tax cliffs are out there for your situation. Play around the number on those sites. Here's an example that I ran into for the 2021 tax year: I was thinking of converting 10k to my Roth while my AGI was 150k. This would have brought my AGI to 160k, but it would have cost me an additional 10k in taxes, so basically I would have been loosing 10k. Crazy right? So you need to pay attention to these "CLIFFS" for different situations, like health care costs and child tax credits for example.

Great analysis and explanation! I am a big fan of Roth Conversions and have seen nobody measure the tax savings in this much level of detail. I will reach out to entertain a conversation about retirement planning! Great job!!!

Best channel to strategize. Keep them coming!!

Thank you for this analysis.

Troy, I've gone through 20+ videos and you're the first to be realistic in your expectations regarding market/account growth, which greatly helps to provide a realistic view. But either way, there's a great deal to digest and analyze here. Thanks for the work you put into this! Anthony

@jackthoma3600

2 жыл бұрын

This works IF you think you are going to live beyond age 85 and have heirs you want to leave proceeds to

Very good analysis! Thank you.

Hi Troy, First time listener and I appreciate the helpful video. I have started doing exactly what you have talked about, but I am little late in doing so! My problem, as well pointed out, is to swallow high taxes in the initial years! I have subscribed to your videos and hope to make a visit to your office sometime. Thanks, and Best Regards.

@OakHarvestFinancialGroup

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing!

Very good video. I have been thinking of this since before I retired. However I did not consider it due to upfront costs. However we will be starting this year to convert a substantial amount into Roth despite the upfront costs the benefits can outweigh those . Thanks for posting.

Thanks, informative.

Thanks for an excellent presentation which confirms what we have been doing!

Awesome presentation thank you

Great video! As someone who is just starting to do some big Roth conversions, I especially like the section from about 8-10 minutes in, showing green and blue lines for one’s net worth with Roth conversions (blue) or without them (green). ON PAPER (or the white board) the cross-over point in value is years down the line. It hurts to see one’s net worth go down, and as he points out, it hurts to write those big checks to the IRS. But in TRUE VALUE one’s wealth takes no dip at all, because as he points out, the green line represents “tax-infested dollars” which are actually worth less than tax-free dollars. Personally, I am doing big Roth conversions before turning 63, and paying taxes up up to a 24% marginal rate. Starting with the year I turn 63, I expect to keep converting but smaller amounts, to keep my Medicare premiums low (since they are based on one’s AGI 2 years prior).

@13Voodoobilly69

Жыл бұрын

I am in the same boat as you my friend. 😂

Thank you, very good information I didn’t know before.

Thank you!

Great info. Thks

@OakHarvestFinancialGroup

2 ай бұрын

Thanks so much, Charles!

Exactly what I was looking for, I will contact your firm.

Finally someone that makes sense! My plan has been to burn the pre-tax stuff (either spend or convert to Roth, making up the needed spending with taxable) and delay SocSec until age 70. I haven't been able to figure out why keeping the pre-tax makes sense with medicare brackets and social security taxation.

@davidfolts5893

Жыл бұрын

You want to keep enough in the traditional IRA to account for your standard deduction being used, and with Social Security taxation not being increased with inflation, it is virtually assured that you are going to be in the 85% of Social Security being counted as income if you are concerned about the size of your IRA.

@Sylvan_dB

Жыл бұрын

@@davidfolts5893 I wouldn't say I ”want” to keep that in the pre-tax IRA, but rather it is okay to keep that there and may save current taxes by leaving it in pre-tax. However having it in a Roth is psychologically advantageous because if something comes up you don't have any tax concerns in accessing the money. Converting more also may save money if tax rates increase.

@davidfolts5893

Жыл бұрын

@@Sylvan_dB It's all about tax diversification to increase available options no matter what changes occur.

The biggest weakness in this strategy is accounting for an extended bear market and high inflation like the late 1960's through the early 1980's

This was very helpful to me, thank you. I was just discussing this very subject with my Fidelity account manager this week. As usual, he couldnt tell me more than I already knew. These big houses want you to use their services that have access to trade for you and I need an independent planner to guide me and I make the changes.

@wensunkeh2030

3 жыл бұрын

Very interesting. I also have an account with Fidelity. How does your discussion with your Fidelity account manager go. I have tried talking to my Fidelity Account manger about the subject but was not fruitful. Do you pay your account manger extra fees? Will appreciate very much for your answer. I did an $100,000 conversion last year which I regret that I did not covert more. Thanks

@Lianne459

3 жыл бұрын

@@wensunkeh2030 I just asked him about Roth conversion because I no longer qualify to put more money into my Roth. Fidelity offers full account management where they do your trading and rebalancing and advising for 1% yearly fee. I prefer to find independent advice that partners with me and advises me and I pay them for their time but I do my own trading.

@wensunkeh2030

3 жыл бұрын

@@Lianne459 I also asked my Fidelity account manager the same question, he did ask me what tax rate I was paying. So I did some search and find out that for 2020, I paid @ 22% and if I move an additional, say , $50,000 to ROTH from IRA then I will more likely in the 24% bracket. So I hesitate if do it this year. I also do my own trade. This year I already moved all 401K to IRA. So I still not decide if I should move more to ROTH.

@axrajuhedu1729

2 жыл бұрын

is Fidelity motivated by your conversion to roth and using money from your accounts to pay taxes and then ending up with less AUM(assets under management), imo. Imagine if we all did that at fidelity.

Did some conversions years ago… glad we did in retrospect… still some not converted

My concern and the avoided issue is the Net Present Value (NPV) of your money. If you convert, you pay taxes today. If you wait and pay taxes down the road (like in 20years), you are paying taxes with future money, which is worth less. i.e., would you rather I give you $100 today than in 20 years

When making Roth decisions, you need to know who you are planning for: You and your spouse together, the surviving spouse alone, or your children. Prioritize your decision-making first, then plan accordingly, keeping in mind that you won't have certainty because longevity is a wildcard that will change the end value of those conversions.

@edbouhl3100

5 ай бұрын

My thoughts exactly. My wife and I want to leave our kids with substantial funds - because the mid- to later-21st Century is shaping up to be an unpredictable hell-hole thanks to the changing weather. Funds may give them some options. And no, we are not promoting the idea of grandchildren.

I remember my parents complaining about the taxes they paid both lived to 87 yrs young. We are gonna all pay taxes this is the game we are in just like this gentleman said you choose which way to go, pay it now or pay it later. I don’t trust the tax man the sooner I get him off my plate the better. My parents were not wealthy people but they managed their money well and lived comfortably well. That’s the least I can do is to educate myself on options with the tax man and pay the least tax I can in the long run and yes pass that info and on to our offspring so they can choose which path to travel. The government spends money we hope taxes will be lower but plan on them being higher. Thank you for this information.

Great presentation and a great educational video. Thank you.

Here's a great scenario, and possibly fodder for a video, with a situation common to many working-class people. Many of us are in, or mostly in, the 12% bracket while working. We're short of a million dollars in savings/investments, but let's say we've managed to put away somewhere in the range of $700 - 750K. At 65, does it make sense to do Roth conversions that would put more dollars into the 22% bracket during conversion, given that post-retirement taxes (with no conversion) would likely stay mostly in the 12% bracket as married filing jointly. And, to add a wrinkle, what about considering the period following the death of a spouse when the 22% bracket begins at around 40K? Many surviving spouses will have 20 years or even more of paying taxes filed as single.

Good stuff.

One advantage of converting an IRA to Roth IRA is it will eventually reduce RMD's (Required Mandatory Distribution) in the near future,

@johnd4348

2 жыл бұрын

My RMD will be about the same amount as I need to live on, so no big deal. I will be taking that money out any way. Besides you can always reinvest the money you take out as long as its not in a tax deferred account. . Thats my understanding.

Troy, can you make the same sample planning for single which dollar amounts are small? Any additional considerations or options for single? Thank you for all the information.

I'm 66 have done one $75k Roth Conversion and stayed in the 12% tax bracket. My wife and I each have about $600,000 in tax deferred accounts, she is 4 years younger and if Secure act 2.0 passes, she won't have RMDs until 75 yrs old. I'm sure when we both get SS and RMDs we will be in a higher tax bracket. I'm wondering if I should bite the bullet and go up to the 22% tax bracket doing the Roth Conversions. The 'first world problem' we have now is the tax deferred accounts are growing faster than I am Roth converting them. Nice problem to have but still a problem.

@davidfolts5893

Жыл бұрын

The 12% bracket seems like a no-brainer. Still, when you go higher, it will depend on variables outside your control, such as longevity, tax law changes and market returns, depending on what asset allocation you are comfortable with...

we are considering a conversion,hubby 65,but not retiring and has high income putting us in 35% to 37% tax bracket,so doesn't make sense to convert now until he retires and doesn't have high income,would only have a few years to make conversions unless they bump RMD rule to 75 that would help a lot👍

@Chris.Brisson

2 жыл бұрын

Converting after he retires means transferring the funds from a traditional 401K to a Roth IRA. If he converts while employed he could target a Roth 401K. When he terminates employment, he can keep the money in the Roth 401K rather than transfer it to a Roth IRA. The concern is the difference between a 401K and an IRA with regard to asset protection from creditors. Also, there may be 401K vs IRA implications for the division of assets comes the day he divorces you to be with a younger woman.

@obrientracy1

2 жыл бұрын

@@Chris.Brisson not sure what u mean by "he could target Roth 401k if he converts while employed". We were considering converting his trad IRA,after paying tax,into his Roth IRA. We also have done rollovers from 401k roth to his IRA roth,we like to rollover from 401k to trad IRA d/t the many fees in 401k. Lastly,let's hope he's not leaving me for a younger woman,cuz we've got other Community property😄

I've been a CPA for almost 40 years, and can verify everything he's said is on the money.

@OakHarvestFinancialGroup

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@jetboy770371

2 жыл бұрын

Can you convert this year and if so needed Re-characterize some of the money early next year before the deadline. Would this allow you to see how you are taxed and set you up for a "do over" if you're unhappy with the taxes paid ?

@calvinlim9485

2 жыл бұрын

@@jetboy770371 can't do to the horse racing technique anymore. Usually it's best to just optimize per the tax bracket. Usually taking out enough to max out the 10 or 12% is the sweet spot

@DrDave-zk6nf

2 жыл бұрын

Is it not true that we can pass on $12.5 million to our family members tax free at least within a trust?

@calvinlim9485

2 жыл бұрын

@@DrDave-zk6nf you can do it normally outside a trust too.

To me this really only matters if your going to leave the money alone and let it grow. I'm not going to fly coach and let my kids fly first class and believe me they will

@johng4093

10 ай бұрын

If you've done the projections including RMDs where the taxes can get horrendous, and you can make it to the end of life without running out, go for it!

@goya2695

4 ай бұрын

Finally, somebody with sense!!! Kids will get ZERO! They have an education in school and in life, provided by me, and the winning lottery ticket of having been born in AMERICA. They can create THEIR own wealth. I am enjoying mine. And! I will die penny-less and with a smile on my face.

@alfonz7863

29 күн бұрын

Agree, specially when the cross-over date is at 84 years old. We should all be lucky to make it to 84. Also once you get to your 80's, you won't be spending much cash and could probably care less that your Roth conversion is now just starting to work in your favor.

You got me thinking....

I'm 62 and did it last year. The tax hit is enormous. If I die young it won't really matter either way except for my heirs. But if I manage to live a long time and my investments are reasonable, I figure that I am going to come out way ahead. Wish me luck.

@hott9053

2 жыл бұрын

Good luck! live long and prosper

@Swedetwin

2 жыл бұрын

If you don't mind sharing, could you give us your numbers. Your heirs will appreciate it. I wish you a long and happy life too.

@Scott-xf5xb

8 сағат бұрын

How is it working out 2 years later?

@lbowsk

7 сағат бұрын

@@Scott-xf5xb I had a lousy year in 22 and again in 23, but still managed to make more than I spend in retirement. I figure that's a big plus - and the name of the game, right? 6 figures of tax free gains is significant. But to be fair I also had a lot less IN the market after the tax I paid initially. Still too soon to really tell, but I am quite optimistic about my current holdings.

Another thing for couples to consider which makes earlier ROTH conversions even more attractive is the shift to the single tax bracket upon the death of one spouse. Once filing single the higher tax rates kick in at a much lower income level.

@johnmathews3190

3 жыл бұрын

Yes! exactly. You don't know the future, but you do know taxes can only go up from here and at some point there will be only 1 so tax brackets will hurt.

@RobertShrimpton

2 жыл бұрын

Very good point, that I suspect many people either overlook, or just don't want to think about.

@PH-md8xp

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly! Protecting your savings by moving a large portion of your “tax infested” savings makes sense for many reasons. One thing that concerns me though - my understanding is Nursing homes can come after your Roth assets but not your taxable IRA assets.

@Swedetwin

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you.....I had not thought of that.

Great info... Appreciate your videos... Very insightful! The fear for me is having to pay the lump sum during conversion

@PM-oe5mk

3 жыл бұрын

Convert smaller amounts at a time each year to remain within a lower tax bracket. Only convert the whole amount if you have the money to cover the taxes on the lump sum.

@billytrujillo8661

3 жыл бұрын

@@PM-oe5mk thank you that makes sense

@PM-oe5mk

3 жыл бұрын

@@billytrujillo8661 You're welcome. I've been using a spreadsheet to play around with how much I can convert without bumping me into the next tax bracket. If you have a sizeable portfolio, it's definitely worth thinking about converting small amounts now (before retiring) vs having to make big rmds later, because that will guarantee that 85% of your social security benefits will be taxed.

@billytrujillo8661

3 жыл бұрын

@@PM-oe5mk yes that's why I started my research on this subject... I have 9 years before retirement starts

@OakHarvestFinancialGroup

3 жыл бұрын

The biggest mistake most people make is not even considering doing a conversion. Another mistake people make is doing the conversion focused only on what bracket it bumps you into this year without understanding the impact on your future balances, RMDs and taxes. Looking only at this year's tax bracket is like looking through the rear view mirror while ignoring what's coming down the road. Everyone's situation is different and the right actions depend on your particular situation, but hopefully this video helps you to see the potential benefits of tax planning while looking forward!

Thank u. Very interesting. Question. I want to convert my IRA standard to another investment but want to avoid the taxes on my IRAs when I disburse/convert the IRAs. What investment type will reduce the tax on the IRAs ? Is the ROTH the best option?

What's the Present Value of the 2 tax streams? I'm guessing it will likely still favor the conversion given the large discrepancy, but I'm curious about the comparison. Thanks!

This is a very good analysis. I believe the Roth conversions are even more beneficial if you have a few low-income years, maybe before taking social security and perhaps living off of taxable savings and maybe a pension.

@OakHarvestFinancialGroup

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for your support! We appreciate that you enjoy our content. Feel free to click the link below to speak to one of our advisors if you have any questions: click2retire.com/3q410XG

It’s just too bad that they didn’t create the Roth and even a Roth 401k at the beginning, instead of the traditional IRA, and the regular 401k. Then we wouldn’t have all these headaches. It’s nice that they’re considering increasing the age for the RMD. They should also increase the amount you can make during the year and not get penalized on your Social Security benefits. Due to inflation, I would suggest increasing it from $25,000 to $50,000.

Please consider creating a video that compares how a given couple would have fared if they stretched out the Roth conversions over a longer period of time. Your video does a great job showing how if you bite the bullet for four years, it can be well worth paying the taxes. Depending on their marginal tax rates, they might have saved much more if they had started earlier.

@OakHarvestFinancialGroup

3 жыл бұрын

Hi David, From our experience of sitting with families over the years very few start conversions earlier. The strategy reviewed in the video is very good for that particular scenario, in our view. For some people, stretching the conversions out over longer periods results in more taxes paid over time. A common reason for this is the more you leave in IRAs the higher your RMDs are in the future which can trigger large income taxes along with other areas of the tax code. This is especially true if you expect taxes to be higher in the future. I will get a video out comparing a scenario of stretching the conversions out versus doing them more quickly. The right action to take ultimately depends on your persona situation. Thanks for your comment!

@rudged123

3 жыл бұрын

@@OakHarvestFinancialGroup Thanks! I'm 58 and planning to do it over ten years before I retire at age 70, in part because my spouse is 15 years older than me and I want to convert as much as possible while we can still file jointly as a married couple.

@DaveAngelini

3 жыл бұрын

@@OakHarvestFinancialGroup Yes please do a video of smaller conversions. What you wrote does not make sense to me!

For what it's worth -- my $.02. As a working stiff I fully funded my 403(b)/401(k) employer retirement plan -- even taking advantage of the over 50 catch-up provisions as I aged. I also have a ROTH IRA -- funded to the maximum allowed by law since they were created -- and numerous after-tax investments. I rolled my retirement plan over to an IRA when I retired (10 years ago) and am allowing it to grow untouched since (I'm 70). My living expenses are funded from after-tax investments. In hindsight... I would've contributed to the retirement plan ONLY enough to garner the employer's contribution. And focused my additional payments (after tax) into AFTER-TAX investments (individual stocks, municipal bonds, indexed stock funds). Investments with low or minimal tax exposure. Plus the ROTH of course. A bigger "bite" while working of course... but less to worry about in retirement.

@AnthonyMiyazaki

2 жыл бұрын

Roxie's Dad is smart about this. The taxed investment increases will be taxed primarily as capital gains (short-term at marginal tax rates, long-term at 0%, 15%, or 20% depending on income) with some dividends/interest (at marginal tax rates). I do disagree with the investments with minimal tax exposure though. I would suggest index funds and then be ready to pay the long-term capital gains, which will be less than your marginal tax rates.

@RamSamudrala

2 жыл бұрын

@@AnthonyMiyazaki Yes, but they have to consider the opportunity costs of the 20% (max) being invested in the market also. So it's not just that they're paying the extra 20% now ahead of time but that in a traditional 401(k), that 20% also grows compounded.

@joemoakler4527

2 жыл бұрын

Unless you have created a Trust for your Estate instead of a Will. ALL of your Investments Will be held by the Estate until Bills and Claims are settled! Only the Roth and IRA will Go Directly to their Beneficiaries, upon your passing. A Will for an Estate can be kept open for years.

@alan30189

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, that’s the thing for people to do. If your employer offers a match only invest in a 401(k) up to the match, and then invest fully in a Roth IRA, up to the limit. After that, you could invest any more money in the 401(k), if you want. if your employer does not offer a match, forget the 401(k) until you have invested fully in the Roth IRA. Then invest in the 401(k) and defer taxes.

@dlg5485

2 жыл бұрын

I don't think that would have been a good idea. In my opinion, you should have been doing Roth conversions from your 401k all along, so that those conversions would have been growing tax free in your Roth all these years. Putting more money in a taxable account only would have increased your tax burden.

Also, once the couple goes from married filing joint to a widow filing single, the tax rates become higher sooner. Better to convert to Roth before income drops to 1 social security check and tax rate is higher. Odds of surviving spouse living into 90's is great.

I converted some money to a Roth to take advantage of a tax credit for a solar power installation.

In 2008-10 I did a Roth conversion And the IRS had a special rule where you could spread the tax liability of the conversion over two years. What a deal, 100% in the market and all tax free. Whoever inherits this has to take out the money over 10 years according to a new rule. Same with the regular IRA. That wasn’t the terms of the initial proposal it’s not fair to change the rules midstream? Obviously it was such a really good deal they want to cut of it.

@timsans1170

6 ай бұрын

Keep voting Democrat, They can only print so much money then someone has to pay for the Illegals in the 5 Star Hotels!

This was terrific. I will definitely discuss this with our financial advisor.

In the early Roth conversion scenario, you can convert capital gains tax free up to $110,000 less ordinary income in a brokerage account for married couples.

What value of a couples portfolio do you think there begins to be advantages to doing Roth conversions? There was a video you posted recently that you said you weren’t to worried about taxes because the portfolio value wasn’t high enough. We are just debating whether or not we should be planning on doing a Roth conversion since my wife was laid off and is no longer contributing to her 401K.

The investment return rate plays a huge part. If you think you will get 2% vs 20% would change your plans.

How can you account for the time value of the projected tax liability over time for each scenario, in addition to the total over time as the presentation shows.

Remember the 5 year rule for conversion from a Traditional IRA to a Roth. Not a problem if you spent a lifetime saving money and plan to give it away to your heirs instead of enjoying it yourself. You can't withdraw the money until 5 years have passed unless you want to pay a penalty. Best solution is to build a Roth to pass on to heirs and keep enough in the Traditional IRA to spend yourself.

@DeniseW618

2 жыл бұрын

You can’t spend the earnings on that money for 5 years. You can spend the principle. I think he said he was converting 65k over a 5 year period or something like that. He’d have access to the $65k, but not the interest on it. He’d have to wait 5 years to spend all of the first year earnings, 6 years for the 2nd year earnings, etc. So, it would take 10 years in this case to be able to spend $100% of the earnings of all that money. In the meantime, he still has access to the money that wasn’t converted as well.

@rickj6048

2 жыл бұрын

@@DeniseW618 Thanks for the clarification. I did not realize that the principle was available at any time without penalty (age 59.5+)

@DeniseW618

2 жыл бұрын

@@rickj6048 I didn’t know that either until about 2 years ago. That makes a big difference in making your decision to convert or not. Happy New Year!

@silver6054

2 жыл бұрын

@@DeniseW618 Right about the principle but I believe you are wrong about needing to wait more than 5 years for the earnings. 5 years after conversion, all earnings can be withdrawn tax free (and without penalties if over 59.5 years).

Good thoughts, but it is hard as an advisor to not give all the implications, involved. Like time value of money, moving to a non-income tax state in retirement, etc. As a retired financial planner I would often recommend to my clients to take the 50/50 option. Meaning, if we are not sure which way to go in this case, do the Roth conversion with 1/2 of your qualified money. That way the worse you could do is make 1/2 of a mistake and not a 100% mistake, if in the end doing the Roth was not a good idea. Just a thought.

What state and local tax rates did you use for your Roth conversion calculations?

In 2010 if you did a conversion the government would spread The tax liability over two years. Such a deal and if the market goes up 15% a year you double your money every five years. And that’s all tax free. Socially you are buying your freedom. Thank you for your presentation

@jj4321

3 жыл бұрын

Market won't go up 15% annually. You are dreaming. S&P500 actually went down a few percentage from 2001-2011.

What if you don’t have the liquid funds to pay the tax due each year of a Roth conversion? If I pay the tax due from the IRA does it still make financial sense to convert over 10 years or so? I doubt it.

Excellent video and one can soften the conversion tax by starting at age 60 or so and spreading it out up to 72. As I learned in the video, one can maybe go out to 75 if secure act 2 passes!

@Lawdog1523

3 жыл бұрын

You can still do it even after RMDs. I.e rmd of x and convert the y...

@TheModelmaker123

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, but you may be spreading the conversion into a higher tax rate.

A lot of your video is explaining the output of your software model - fair enough (and I think it is credible). But it would have been interesting to identify the root causes of the tax savings identified. Are most of the savings the result of tax arbitrage between different current tax rates? Tax arbitrage between current rates (Trump rates) and future rates? Are most of the savings from avoiding the taxation of Social Security income? Were there savings driven by Medicare IRMAA? As I try to decide about Roth conversions, it would be helpful to understand where the savings are coming from.

@drdougful

2 жыл бұрын

Great point

I stopped contributing to my IRA in 1998, because I switched to Roth. Now at 71yo, my RMD next year or the year after is very manageable. I do very well in the 12% bracket. About 2/3 of my money is in my brokerage account, all in mutual funds and etfs, and have 3 years cash. My spend rate is about 1% most years. My IRA is all GMNA bonds and a little cash for conversions. My brokerage and Roth do the heavy lifting, and the IRA is used to maintain my 70/30 asset allocation. I behave myself during downturns and stick with it. I don't have a whole lot of money, but enough so I don't have to fight with the dog for the last can of Alpo before the SS money hits my account. :) Late last year I made my first QCD. Nice channel you have here.

@chessdad182

3 жыл бұрын

Hopefully its a small dog so you can win. Good job.

@daveschmarder-1950

3 жыл бұрын

@@chessdad182 I think I'll do ok. I know how to operate the can opener. :) Thank you for your concern.

HI, I notice that you compare the pretax amount of the 401k to the roth conversion, It would be a great if you also showed a line of the after tax value of the 401k assuming the RMD and current tax rates.

@OakHarvestFinancialGroup

2 жыл бұрын

Hi Keith! I have done videos where I discuss the concept, but not an entire video dedicated to that. The simple answer is much sooner! Thanks for watching and Happy New Year!

I have 2.3 million in a 401K, 67 and no longer working. I will have several years with no income so I am planning on doing a partial roth conversion. I will take out 60K a year, put it in my roth and pay the taxes with the cash I have. I have about $330K cash so enough to support myself until I hit age 70 and start my social security which should be about 50K. Then at 72 1/2 I will start my RMD's which should be about $100K. I won't have a lot in my roth, maybe $250K that I don't plan to take out unless there is an emergency.

@jsilverback3795

2 жыл бұрын

Be careful. RMD's start at 72 and not 72 1/2.

@Scott-xf5xb

8 сағат бұрын

How did things work out 2 years later?

its better to make a decision on what assets you have now, your current expenses, and current tax rates. Trying to guess what taxes will be in the future is too speculative to make a decision. Taxes paid today is earnings lost from that point forward, you can't do a direct compare of taxes paid. If your tax bracket is 10-12%, do some conversion as that is a historically low rate. If you can get 50% of your IRA converted to prior to taking RMDs, you are in good shape. If you are taking social security, its more complicated as your conversions will likely cause your social security to be taxed...

some numbers questions: on bar graph at approximately 13:12 how is the ~67k in taxes calculated during that 4 year period? at 6:03 in comparison of conversion v. traditional where do the two total values come from - $5.1M v. $4.3M? are those at the end of the longevity period - 29? also, same time frame "ending value" of what?

@doughartsock1073

2 жыл бұрын

The $5.1M and $4.3M are the amounts each strategy would generate at +29 years if no distributions were taken.

The SECURE Act has torpedoed my plans to leave the bulk of my traditional 401k and IRA's to my kids. Now I'm in a bit of a scramble to do some conversions. Still waiting on a dip in the market to begin. 60 years old, so I have a bit of time, but am ready to take the tax hit when the timing is right.

@luciodeluca3257

2 жыл бұрын

@wes. I think the dips have arrived!

@f430ferrari5

2 жыл бұрын

@Wes. I think you’re being overly nice to your kids. Why stress over it. You plan on leaving them something which is better than many. You never know in that one of your kids could temporarily be unemployed after you passed away and that’s a perfect time for them to pull out some money? You could also consider retiring early and just live off your 401k and IRA until you start to get social security. Put excess money aside and just give it to your kids in the form of cash. Are you worried they may get lazy or just spend it?

@michaelv77

2 жыл бұрын

@@f430ferrari5 , the best way to help your kids is to give each $6k yearly as a gift for their Roth,

8 minutes into video I haven't learned anything yet except how good these guys are 0

The only approach that seems desirable is to wait until late December and get all of your dividend and distribution data and calculate your taxes. Then you can try entering various Roth conversions and immediately see what the tax effect will be for the year.

@bones2620

2 жыл бұрын

I would suggest that converting a portion, say 75% or so, early in the year and finish once you know what your tax position will be at year end. This works when the market is up and is less effective when the market declines for the year. As mentioned, there are other considerations such as IRMAA.

@mavamQ

2 жыл бұрын

We have been retired 3 years, so far I have generated all my spending in the previous year and it sets in a cash account for spend down during the next year. In December I figure out the lowest tax consequences for withdrawing the next years spending. This has worked well, as I have maximized income in the 12% bracket. This makes it easy to maximize my Roth Conversion. I just need to figure out if the 12% bracket is best or the 22% bracket.

@bartman5849

2 жыл бұрын

You can do the prior year conversion up until the tax deadline for the year. Makes it easier for sure.

@AnthonyMiyazaki

2 жыл бұрын

If you convert in early January, you get growth starting in January, but don't pay the taxes until mid-April of the following year. As long as you can estimate the taxes well, this is the route to go.

@drdougful

2 жыл бұрын

@@bartman5849 this is not correct. While contributions can be made until tax due date, conversion must be done in the calendar year, ie dec 31 deadline.

Scared to pay the taxes. Tax Money will have to be paid with 401k dollars which decreases its earning power. So if i have 1M now and i convert i am left with 750K for my retirement. How to pay the taxes could be your next video?

Like the info! but I think he should of better explained what money should be used to pay take on roth conversions. If you have cash equivalent's ;c.d.'s, mutual funds, savings bonds; to pay take on theses conversions it won't affect your retirement balance.

10:37 If I understand correctly the green line represents the growth of conventional IRA but shows no tax burden because there was no distribution. Can you show the tax impact on that green line if we selected a target amount to withdraw then compare it to the blue line using the same distribution?

@OakHarvestFinancialGroup

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, but it would have to be another video in a couple weeks as the next few weeks are already lined up. Ultimately the green line overcomes the blue line much sooner, every situation is different but 5-10 years sooner is not uncommon.

You mentioned Roth conversions affecting social security as well. Curious to get your thoughts on deferring social security until 70 and getting as much of the conversions done before 70 as possible. Thanks

@BigTony2Guns

2 жыл бұрын

Great if you are in Very Good health !! And have long living Parents

I selected this video because the example is pretty close to my own, and I wondered if conversion made sense doing it relatively late with a modest ira account. Pleased to see it did. Like the graphs. But did you say there was something different regarding Soc Security between the 2 examples? I didn't get what that was.

@tncoltsfan

13 күн бұрын

I caught that as well, he mentioned about coming back to that later in the video but didn't. It would have been nice to see an exact apples to apples comparison. I hate when something is different, it seems as though they're hiding something.

I'm almost convinced, I wonder can you pay the conversion tax out of pocket or does it have to reduce the funds transfer amount? There has to be a big correction in the next 2 years, so I need to get a plan together.

@Lawdog1523

3 жыл бұрын

You can pay out of the transferred funds, but it is messier and if under 59.5 a penalty (early distribution vs conversion) on the amount used to pay the taxes. So you would need to take out additional funds... Recommended to pay out of other sources.

@Lawdog1523

3 жыл бұрын

Oh and converting at a down market is optimal, but usually only w hindsight. A bigger driver I feel is the known laws and tax rates vs new legislation, etc. I.e don't wait for down market vs the repeal of TJA tax cuts. Look at how the brackets used to be vs now and where they will likely go again in the future.

@s.balasubramanian6412

3 жыл бұрын

@@Lawdog1523 Though converting in a down market makes sense if we have to split up the conversion over 3 or 4 years to keep the tax bracket low enough the down market may not be the solution for several years.

@Swedetwin

2 жыл бұрын

You would not want to reduce the funds transferred. You would want to take full advantage of the tax growth in that newly converted Roth IRA. I would say if you can't comfortably pay out of pocket, then one should not convert---or at least convert smaller amounts at a time after 59.5 yrs. I could be wrong about this, as I'm trying to rapidly educate myself on this topic of conversions.

At the end of the video, a very important point is missed: the step-up in tax basis for the heir. (update: I was incorrect, there is no step-up for retirement accounts).

@OakHarvestFinancialGroup

2 жыл бұрын

Retirement accounts do not receive a step up in basis. Only non-qualified assets do. Retirement accounts are required to be fully distributed within 10 years, creating a massive tax burden, or otherwise incur a 50% penalty of the full amount not distributed (plus taxes).

@chadh7630

2 жыл бұрын

@@OakHarvestFinancialGroup thank you for the quick reply. I was under the impression that they did receive a step-up. Thanks for correcting me.

I was lucky to have an employer offer Roth 401k. All I paid in conversion was their match every year. I’m sitting on $120k in Roth at 30 years old as I suspect taxes will be much higher for me at the time of retirement. Pay it now, to avoid the headaches later.

@davidbeal8715

3 жыл бұрын

Good for you

@mcelroychandler6267

3 жыл бұрын

That's what I did and I'm glad, it's worked well for me.

@jsilverback3795

2 жыл бұрын

Smart young man!

@robr9905

2 жыл бұрын

Dude - you are so ahead of the others! Don't stop thinking forward. There are 3 types of people: Those that make things happen, Those that watch what happened, Those that wondered what happened. Best to be in the first group.

Choice between paying taxes next 4 yrs. on converting ~$185k or maxing out existing Roth IRA contributions. Which is better use of cash flow? In general.

@5metoo

Жыл бұрын

Depends on individual. I went from maxing out 401k Roth (and Roth IRA) each year to doing conversions, because it crimped my cash flow more to do the former given my income and tax rates.

As far as I’m concerned put as much as you can in your Roth IRA. It will buy you freedom and you do not have to hassle with higher taxes later in your life and I could pass it on easily. Keep your life simple to

@ttaylor7777

3 жыл бұрын

@D Sullivan Incorrect

@ttaylor7777

3 жыл бұрын

@D Sullivan You do not pay inheritance tax on the funds if the estate is under $11.7M. The funds are transferred as an "Inherited IRA" to the recipient. These must be handled through a broker so the recipient never directly has the funds. The recipient then must pay taxes when the funds are removed from the "Inherited IRA". Search rules for Inherited IRA distribution and tax. Before 2020 the recipient had RMD's based on age, after 2020 there was a maximum of 10 years to distribute the funds.

My father ended up converting his tradition IRS's to Roth when he was in his 70's. He ended up more or less holding onto the funds and ended up spending it all on LTC when my mom suffered dementia. I believe he would have been better off not converting as he ended up with over 100,000 a year in LTC expense related to my mom, which would have more or less written off on taxes. If you have not secured LTC insurance, it may be worth a careful look. I like a balance of Roth and tradition. I will spending down traditional until I draw Social security; I take a mix of traditional and ROTH to keep the amount of taxes on Social Security at a minimum. Hold some traditional for when health care expenses get high again where I can write off the high medical bills.

@dlg5485

2 жыл бұрын

Rather than spending money on insurance premiums, focus on engaging in habits that are known to prevent dementia and other chronic diseases. There is so much data out there on maintaining your health and vitality as you age, but most of us just go thru life blindly, hoping for the best. Don't just wait for the worst to happen, you have to be proactive if you want to stay (biologically) young. Look into research being done by scientists like David Sinclair at Harvard and many others.

@2Greenlid

Жыл бұрын

It is impossible to guarantee no dementia, poor advice pretend doctor!

I wish that something was addressed in this video: What is the range of cash outlay one needs to do a Roth conversion in different scenarios. I wish someone would address this.

@Liledgy100

3 жыл бұрын

I’ve done 2 years of Roth conversions. I converted an amount that kept me in the 24% tax bracket (with the converted amount added to my regular taxable income. The 24% limit is about $326,000 for married filing jointly. So if you converted $100,000, you would need to have $24,000 in reserves (unless you took it from the 100k and paid a penalty) to pay the irs. My state (Illinois) doesn’t tax retirement income (yet, it’s coming), which was another incentive to convert now, while federal tax rates have been the lowest in over 100 years.

@Mitzi73

3 жыл бұрын

@@Liledgy100 Appreciate it. Thank you.

@FIRED13

2 жыл бұрын

@@Liledgy100 it wouldn't necessarily be $24k in taxes right? If you did the $100k, some of that works be taxed at lower rates since this country's income tax is progressive, meaning taxes step up as income increases. Hope thus makes sense

@Liledgy100

2 жыл бұрын

@@FIRED13 all my income above $175k (I think that’s when 24% kicks in) is taxed at 24%, including the additional converted amount. If my income was lower and I only went over the 24% by say $10k, then yes, only the last $10k would be taxed at 24%

Is there any particular time of year to perform the conversions? Early in the year, pay the estimated tax, and let the Roth funds grow all year?

Very good presentation! I did 100% conversion to Roth when I was 68. Fortunately, of course the money is there if I need it but, I have a good chance of never needing a distribution so the legacy component was a big consideration. Add in the Trump tax cuts, and the certainty that taxes were going up from there turned the conversion into A No Brainer!

@axrajuhedu1729

2 жыл бұрын

how did you calculate that 100% needed to be done, all in one shot?

We converted a 457 and a 401 account to a Roth IRA after selling a real estate investment with significant passive activity losses. We still have money in traditional IRA accounts to move over the next several years, but the sooner you do it the better.

@OakHarvestFinancialGroup

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for commenting! I would recommend speaking with a CPA, or getting a second opinion, regarding that strategy. The rules surrounding deducting passive activity losses are very strict and typically can only be used to offset passive activity (other real estate gains).

@seeking70

2 жыл бұрын

@@OakHarvestFinancialGroup these were suspended losses carried over from prior years that were "freed up" when we sold the property. We would have preferred to have had profits to pay taxes on, but if you end up with lemons, make lemonade.

When the kids inherit a tax deferred account like an 401k they get 10 years to liquidate that account. You also forgot to mention that the cheques that you write out to the irs, in this case about $250.000 does not generate “compound interest” if it would have stayed in the conventional account. So that is a loss when you convert to a Roth IRA.

@M22Research

2 жыл бұрын

You might want to re-watch the video. He explicitly addressed all your points and did clearly say heirs have 10 years to withdraw down to zero. What do you think your heirs will do with your traditional IRA/401K if you do not convert them?

@hermanparisius2828

2 жыл бұрын

@@M22Research so you say I should convert them.

@M22Research

2 жыл бұрын

@@hermanparisius2828 never make a major financial decision based solely on what anybody on the Internet advises. Everyone’s situation is different and requires expert advice.

@wesm3848

2 жыл бұрын

Agree, everyone (planners) forget the concept on the time value of money on the taxes paid up front. Also, the idea that someone with 1.4 million in IRA is without other passive income is a bit to simple.

@RobertShrimpton

2 жыл бұрын

To your second point, if you actually run the calculations (e.g. in a spreadsheet) you can see that it doesn't matter if you pay the tax now (before your investments grow) or in the future (after your investments have grown). The final amount you have, after taxes is identical - ASSUMING the tax RATE is the same now as it will be in the future. At least 2 considerations though are: 1) Tax rates are likely to be higher in the future - so you will pay more then 2) Required Minimum Distributions from a Traditional IRA could drive you into a higher tax bracket A third consideration that other commenters have mentioned is that you may be married now (and thus pay less tax) but single/widowed in the future (and thus paying more tax).

Some of these comments are…not well thought out, and that is a common problem when it comes to money. The only sane decisions are based on current laws, percentages, and math. Could future laws gut the roths? Yep, but that kind of what-if-ing leaves you stagnant and broke. Could you die at 70. Yes, but odds are you will not unless you have some terminal illness. Low probability pessimism only leaves you stagnant and broke. Lastly, do the math. Preferably do it yourself but you can pay someone you trust to do it. When you do the math, you will find out if you will benefit from a roth conversion or not. Bottom line is you pay taxes sooner or later. The only smart goal is to pay as little as possible.

@yanbu000

2 жыл бұрын

Yep, agreed. Many of us did bigger conversions as covid hit. I converted in blocks as the market cratered. Made back much more than the taxes I paid for the conversion. And, that is something to be considered also. Now waiting I'm for the next crisis/crash to convert more... I'm not letting

@zTheBigFishz

2 жыл бұрын

Yup

@yanbu000

2 жыл бұрын

@@snatchinitback4635 Yeah, converting from traditional to Roth IRA's in a down market saves you tax money, and allows the converted money to grow at a lower cost of conversion. Definitely not cashing out. But from everything I see I think the only time I want to convert is when the stocks crater.

@yanbu000

2 жыл бұрын

@@snatchinitback4635 Ya, I had the same realization. And when I realized that, and then thought about how this kind downturn can even help the 'regular guy'. I guess it was sort of a realization that even us 'working stiffs' can make money no matter which direction the market turns ;)

@Garric522

2 жыл бұрын

@@yanbu000 pa

what software is used to generate tables? is this internal software or available to anyone? anyone know of any similar software available publicly?

The presentation is very useful but doesn't talk about the impact of IRMAA on Medicare Part B which seems to have a significant increase in the monthly premium.

@Lawdog1523

3 жыл бұрын

Can calculate higher irmaas, if full conversion, only Irma for 2 years after... but generally high net worth and high income earners will pay that w RMDs too over a longer time. Look at the math of a 100k conversion added to a MFJ couple at 170k agi currently....approximately 150/month increase. Or 1800/yr × 2= 3600 × 10 = 36000. Or take the approximately 6k yr penalty × 2 people for 2 yrs. = 24000. And Irmaa has gone up and will most likely continue to go up.

Your analysis is good. But, have you taken into account the present value if taxes paid when you convert to Roth. This can affect the break even age of 84 years as presented by you.

Does the possible new age for RMD at 75 instead of 72 affect those of us already paying RMD.? I will be 73 in May, 2022 and started RMD at 701/2. I missed the new age by 3 months! Thanks!

I started my IRA conversions into Roth IRAs in 2008 over 3 years and started converting my work based 401ks in 2010 until all my 401ks became Roth 401ks. Also in 2010 all my 401k contributions were Roth 401k contributions until I stopped working. Upon retirement in 2020 I shifted the Roth 401ks over to my Roth IRA. My accounts have had years to recover from the tax bite of the conversions and really zoom ahead thanks to a good stock market. What this gentleman is suggesting strikes me as the way to go. I know I did something similar and it worked out well for me. Takes time and you definately want to implement this strategy at least 6 years in advance of your retirement to avoid the Roth IRA 5 year rule.

If you want to pay all your taxes at one time go ahead. Or you could just draw out your MRD plus what you wanted and pay your taxes each year just like you have been doing.

I'm going to SPEND IT ALL. That solves that problem.

@johnsonajayi7846

3 жыл бұрын

I can't Blame you, you cannot take it with you. I am spending mine too and enjoy my money. I have a will already, if I die, my wife and kids will get all I have. Simple.

@oceancon

2 жыл бұрын

yeah I was thinking that I raised my kids, made them self sufficient and paid for their education and all their living expenses. My responsibility now is to me and my wife. I will not 'suffer' by reducing spending so I "leave some for my kids". My sacrifices and hard work over the years will now allow me and my wife to (hopefully) have a good retirement. The kids can get what's left once we're done. Most likely there will be some left but I will not dictate the terms of my retirement so that I can "leave money for my kids". Selfish you might say? Well no; I lived frugally so that I can get to where I am. I don't want to be a burden on my kids when I'm old (financially) which would be more selfish.

@AN38385

2 жыл бұрын

@@oceancon along with that same thinking can gift to your children while you’re alive while you still can to keep them self sufficient instead of waiting to leave them something. Is that a thing to consider as well?

@oceancon

2 жыл бұрын

@@AN38385 well yes, and along that vein, I've paid their student loans off and with my daughters will help them as they marry. However this is not the same as retiring with an eye on 'leaving something for the kids'. Like I said before, I am not selfish at all but I at this point my main concern is me and my wife and that takes precedence.

@strictnonconformist7369

2 жыл бұрын

@@oceancon as I see it from what you’ve stated, you’ve gotten your kids out of the nest with no debt burden from student loans, and arranged things to not be a financial burden on them to guilt them with, while teaching them (I presume) about financial literacy. As a parent, before they live on their own, you’re responsible for their upbringing and those resources, and you’ve done that. You’ve taught them what they need to survive and continue the family lineage to the next generation, and their futures aren’t affected one way or another for finances if you suddenly died now or at 100: enjoy your retirement!

Does this software take into account the los of growth of the tax paid to convert? I know it takes the loss of principal but wonder

Are you considering the time-value of money and the impact of inflation? Considering the time value of those huge taxes up front for the conversion, Is it possible the tax payout is really the same? (Although i realize the opportunity provided by Trump tax cuts up through 2025) And the estate planning

@mikefochtman7164

2 жыл бұрын

I feel that the time value of money is implicitly included in this. If you don't do the conversion, the taxes you would have paid stay in the account and grow in the traditional IRA account. So the time-value of those funds is already reflected in the growth of that account. If you pay the taxes from some other account, you have to include the expected growth on that account with your total estate plan.

Would be awesome if you guys can do a video for an early retirement (50 years old) scenario. Everyone talks about 62, 65, 67, etc., but there are limited info for folks wanting to retire at 48-50 years old.

Apples and oranges. When I calculate current assets I convert them all to pre-tax equivalent. Conversions to roth now, for me makes sense because it will prevent the higher brackets and the medicare part B increase when the MRD starts up.

I'm on the fence. My wife and I are still working, but I plan to retire before the end of the year at 63. She says she may or may not work. I have been trying to determine if I should or not convert to Roths. With a break even point at 85, it doesn't benefit me as much as my kids. Lucky kids.

If you set up and fund ( as a tax deductible donation) to a new Donor Advisory Fund in your name at a dollar amount that equates to the taxes you may for the conversion...This is ideal if you have some extra cash available to fund this....So - instead of funding the government with conversion taxes....give it to yourself....to fund future donations you are probably going to make in the next 20-30 year!

It only make sence to convert if you have years to grow your Roth account to make up the differnce in money taken out for taxes.

My wife died in January and I know I should do a Roth conversion on a portion of my 401(k) while I still have MFJ filing status under the Trump tax structure. I just need to do some modeling to determine how much to convert now and in the years before my RMDs kick in. I should have enough cash on hand to pay the tax on each conversion, thereby preserving the full amount in the Roth. One point you made late in the video that many people fail to consider is that having your liquid savings in a Roth is better than in a normal "post-tax" account because this eliminates the income tax on any appreciation, interest, or dividends. It might be good to mention in passing that reinvestment of interest or dividends in a Roth recycles them within a tax-free environment.

@Jeff-gd8ev

2 жыл бұрын

You should definitely look hard at doing an aggressive Roth conversion in 2021 while you can file as MFJ. Do the math, but I think you'll find it to be worthwhile. Also realize that if you have dependents, you may qualify for the 'Qualified Widower' filing status which gives you similar tax brackets as MFJ, for two more years.

@failurescanbeblessings2209

2 жыл бұрын

My condolences on the homegoing of your wife. Have a great day!

A lot of moving parts to consider; NOT mentioned is when One member of a couple dies.. the other is thrust into the Higher Single Tax Bracket.. So having less Traditional IRA/401k will be a plus then.. Hold off Social security until 70.. more room to convert to roth and stay in lower tax bracket. Irmma sucks, as does Medicare 3.8% surcharge if app.. What is your kids tax bracket? They will have 10 years to cash in any inherited IRA.. so 10% a year is reasonable to add to their income for their tax bracket..

@rapfreak7797

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for pointing out the single tax bracket upon death, I’ve never heard someone point that out. Gives me more motivation to convert traditional to Roth while I can afford it in my 40s to make RMDs not bump my wife into a higher tax bracket than absolutely necessary.

I know all these assumption are based on “current law”, but the scam that was the recent law delaying the RMD date to age 72 but forcing our heirs to withdraw the full account within ten years of our death rather than spread the withdrawals over their own lifetime might change. If that were the case, seeing the money continue to grow pre-tax for 30, 40 or so years would change these calculations.

How does the 5 year hold rule work from employer traditional IRAs to Roth IRAS?