Maybe I missed it but do we know the angle they are sharpened to. Because shouldn't something like a 20 or 25 degree last longer than a 17? That may be an important factor.

@CedricAda

3 жыл бұрын

i asked him and because its freehand its probably got a bit of variation/convexing etc going on, but he estimates 20° per side

@jacobokubo7726

3 жыл бұрын

Its kinda counter intuitive but the shallower the angel the longer it lasts. At least cutting rope, cardboard ex.

@bushcraftingmuslim

3 жыл бұрын

Freehand microconvex for the win! I've done this on all my edges for durability and ease of sharpening since forever but I had no idea it could be tangibly better that much on this type of task. I'll implement the different sharpening directions now.

@D00MTR33

3 жыл бұрын

The lower the angle, the more it'll cut. The coarser the finish, the more it should cut. There's so much to edge retention that can affect it. For instance, just a change in microbevel can make a vg10 knife that usually gives up about 25% to s30v can make the vg10 knife cut as much or more than s30v.

@jackamtg

3 жыл бұрын

@@D00MTR33 isn't it the finer an edge the longer it will cut?

Wow! Very impressive, i find myself doing different kinds of edges and finishes to see if theres any benifits

Having declared my dissatisfaction with this sharpener last night kzread.infoUgkxDcr-y2Pf6xdnrFHrSP7dl9kpKaCozcSQ I thought about the problem some more. It occurred to me that I might be undoing each attempt at achieving a sharp edge by the repeated attempts. So, I tried to clean up the unsatisfactory result by honing with only positions 3 and 4.Miracle!! A really nicely sharpened chef's knife, more than enough to handle my needs. Admittedly, it did not reach professionally sharpened razor-fineness, but it is now significantly sharper than it was. A bout of breaking down carrots convinced me. So, major apologies to the manufacturer, Amazon, and all happy and potential owners! Follow the directions: don't buy it if you have ceramic blades; and don't overwork your knife blade.

Really liked how you stopped to tell us your thoughts during the test. Also I don’t think I’ve ever seen/heard the test at normal speed. Hearing the crunch of the cut gives us a better understanding of the test.

We must find the angle Gabe is performing these miracles at!!!

@49giants3

3 жыл бұрын

Hey Ed long time no see. Hope you and you’re family are healthy and happy!!!

@edwardyork4321

3 жыл бұрын

@@49giants3 Sending wishes for U & Yours as WELL 👍

@homeslicesharpening

3 жыл бұрын

The edges were sharpened at 20 degrees per side, I’m going to publish a tutorial video on the method soon. I’m hoping to keep working with Pete and dial in the optimal angle, as I believe a more acute edge will last longer with such large (70 micron) cutting teeth. (This is Gabe).

@edwardyork4321

3 жыл бұрын

GREAT T Y

This is a method that a very good japanese kitchen knife maker uses to sharpen. He used to finish one side on an 800, the other on 8000.

As a person that loves the persona 5 sound track I was so happy to hear Behind the Mask.

The soundtracks to your videos are so relaxing in a JRPG kind of way.

I just tried this on my new Work Sharp Precision Adjust, on my vintage stainless Case Sodbuster, which needed sharpening. (The vintage ones are almost twice as thick at the spine, yet thinner behind the edge, and distally tapered. Try one if you ever get the chance, they're my favorite geometry on any knife.) The result was amazing, in the true sense of that word. The desired finish was actually really easy to achieve, and faster to apply than a normal edge finish. And it behaves...well...Mandalorian. It whittles hair and slices quiet and clean through receipts, and yet has the wicked aggression of a much coarser finish. There is no plastic I can get it to slip off of, nothing I can find that a polished edge might have trouble with. It enters materials FAST. It dives the way a fresh Spyderco serrated edge dives. I don't plan on deliberately wearing the edge out prematurely, but I'll pop back eventually and let you know if it seems to last longer than usual, as was your result here. What I can tell you already is, it's not hard to do, and the cutting characteristics are absolutely bananas.

@matthewsbernier

3 жыл бұрын

I should probably add, after the Work Sharp, I stropped the fine side on 1 micron diamond on leather then wood, alternating with stropping the coarse side on plain leather. The burr seemed to break up into dust and disappear.

@JustIn-op6oy

2 жыл бұрын

Inadvertently I did the same to my vintage Sodbuster jr (it's a 1970's case according to the tang stamp) and it's absolutely amazing how the edge seems to want to laser through whatever material I'm cutting. I used a Smith's C/F double sided diamond stone and finished off with some strop work. It's been about 6 months since I resharpened the Sodbuster and the edge is holding up well. Granted, it's one of 5 or 6 knives I rotate as my EDC so it isn't in constant use. But when I do grab it I usually have some pretty heavy tasks planned.

If you stand up when cutting the rope it should put less stress on your wrists.

@kevola5739

3 жыл бұрын

Keeping the wrist straight or locked should help as well. I’m surprised that he has not incorporated a v block or bench hook to stabilize the rope while cutting. Maybe for consistency in testing there is an avoidance to change.

Gabe! Nice Idea. Please do a video and show us the precise details. Your edge appears to add ~40% edge retention to a knife. That is pretty a serious improvement. Thanks for sharing.

Thank you for your incredible work pete. You truly are a hero in my book.

You have done this so long and I've become so dependent. Please Never Stop!!! This video was the best in a while!

Respect! For both that edge and your effort to show it to us!

I'm really digging the music you used here, especially that really chill song at the beginning and end.

@x-s6002

3 жыл бұрын

From the Persona 5 OST if your curious. kzread.info/dash/bejne/mXp6sbqwnsy8e9o.html

@CedricAda

3 жыл бұрын

Persona 5 soundtrack!

@davidvolsky7713

3 жыл бұрын

@@CedricAda Thanks, Pete.

@davidvolsky7713

3 жыл бұрын

@@x-s6002 Thanks, friend.

Awesome! I'd love to see a tutorial on that sharpening method. This is the most exciting thing since Rex 121. Pete you have gave yourself carpel tunnel need to go get yourself a brace.

M390 is a fine steel but I wish that the knife was in 7cr, that is because of the molar mass of the steel. 7cr is is 2 micrograms per mole lighter than than m390. If you do not watch the micrograms you are not watching the ounces if you don’t watch the ounces you are not watching the pounds. This could lead to disastrous consequences on a backpacking quest. Atomic mass should not be something that is overlooked. I love the content keep making great videos

@steelmaster1006

3 жыл бұрын

Great point. I also wish knife companies would stop putting washers in the pivots because how else are you supposed to ensure the lightest edc blade?

@dudewatchthls

3 жыл бұрын

underrated take tbh

@masonvanduyne6993

3 жыл бұрын

I would love to hear nick shabazz read this comment 😂

@ponchowizard5182

3 жыл бұрын

@@masonvanduyne6993 watch, it turns out to be his personal account.

@solairable

3 жыл бұрын

Jesus a 1 ounce difference? At that point, time to hit the gym make sue you can carry that extra 1 or 2 ounces.

Time to get that 40mm thick manilla rope

@homeslicesharpening

3 жыл бұрын

Do you really want to? This is Gabe. I have a Bark River in 3V I could mail you if you want to try this edge out for yourselves, test it, review it before everyone is doing it. I’m serious.

@DutchBushcraftKnives

3 жыл бұрын

@@homeslicesharpening hey thank you very much for the offer! We might try it ourselves first though. Thanks a lot man

@homeslicesharpening

3 жыл бұрын

@@DutchBushcraftKnives no problem! I'm going to make a tutorial video, aiming to post it up on Saturday (NZ time). I'd recommend checking it out, as it will help you mimic the method closely. Of course I assume you will tweak it to your own style after that 😊

@justicesword1549

3 жыл бұрын

@@homeslicesharpening Can you please make a video sharpening blades this way ?

@DutchBushcraftKnives

3 жыл бұрын

@@homeslicesharpening thanks a lot will do!

Epic work Pete, I was fkn feeling for you at the end. Thanks so much for your outstanding work, can only speak for myself but you've been a fantastic and enjoyable source of information. Your humour and anime/animation references are always fkn gold. I'll be stoked to shout you a beer if you're in Vic sometime, help ya numb that hand pain!

Twisted Sisal: We're KNOT Gonna Take It

All your efforts (and pain) deserve a thumb up. Greetings from the antipodes, Spain.

Great video. Crazy results.

I'm curious to see this widely tested across steel types with conventional and this way of sharpening.

@gaberoo9099

3 жыл бұрын

Have you tried this yet?

Damn..very interesting results. So it looks like you got a roughly 50% improvement over the normal same grit on each side method. I'll be looking forward to see what the M4 does now. I would have never thought of that. It would be really interesting to see if you sharpened that same knife the normal way, if it would make less cuts. Just to verify it isn't just a crazy good heat treat or something.

I believe surgical scalpel blades have been ground with a different grit finish on each side for decades. I never understood the reasoning behind it, but there must be something to it

@tornagawn

3 жыл бұрын

I watched one of those ‘How It’s Made’ video’s and single use disposable scalpel blades are punched out of a steel strip, then ground both sides at once. They are sharp enough for what they do, ie cutting flesh! I use a no. 15 blade for excising skin lesions as it has a small curved blade. Aside from cutting the skin, which can be a bit tough in some areas, the tissues underneath are soft. However for any other use I’d avoid them. The punched out design used to lock the blade to th handle breaks readily if any degree of force is used. You can buy hunting knives with replaceable blades but they are for skinning etc, so low force. Finally......re tough skin..... As a first year medical student, we started on the back. Very tough, thick skin,blunts blades fast. However tissues preserved in Formaldehyde are generally tougher, and a disposable blade stands a higher chance of breaking. Thus we used solid scalpels and became adept at sharpening them.

@zhenbiaoli297

3 жыл бұрын

@@tornagawn Scalpel blades are amazing for opening express box especially for tape. Don‘t need to worry how to clean tape on the blade and hit hard insert. Give scalpel blade some stropping it will last much longer. Also it‘s so thin in geometry

@ertonyrn

3 жыл бұрын

scalpel blades are mass produced stamoed junk. theyre super sharp because they are super thin... they dont have any kind of special angling on each side. ive been using them for 18 years.

@tornagawn

3 жыл бұрын

@@ertonyrn Professionally, using them since 1988, personally? 1978. Cut my hand with a plastic disposable scalpel from my Dad. Trying to seperate a plastic model kit that had been glued together badly. Great one time use blades, too thin to bother resharpening,

Whoa, that is damn impressive, I'm bookmarking this page and will start incorporating it into certain knives when sharpening.

That's incredible!!! Rex121 with that edge would be insane to see. Nice vid man.

Somebody make this knife scientist an automated rope feeding device!

@DeadDrop6109

3 жыл бұрын

In the scientific community I believe that is called an intern.

Very instructive research over the years, bravo.

This is really fascinating! Thanks for sharing and keep up the great work... Much love from Switzerland

I wish my other knife channel favorite @ outdoors55 would see this . This is awesome. Keep researching this pete. Teach me the way of the knife lol

Amazing food for thought. Thank you!

Thats cool ive never thought of anything like that.

I've been doing this with the 150 venev 80-100 micron then 800 venev 7/5 micron strop .5 micron and get similar results. It really seems to work well on rex45 and k390 as well. Glad you did a vid on this

brilliant sketch

That was very interesting indeed. Really cool insight from Gabe. Take care of that hand bro.

How exciting! I look forward to further evidence!

That sounds well worth a shot! Awesome

Very interesting result. Looking forward to what others are gonna make of that! I've seen comments about this on a few other channels already

Just tried it with my WorkSharp, 180grit & 2000grit. Glides through newspaper without catching so better than 180grit. Has bite that digs into the plastic of a coke bottle so better than 2000grit. and it shaves arm hair

Man I wish Gabe could sharpen all my knives lol

A self-healing micro-bevel? WTH kind of sorcery are those Kiwis wielding over there? Great. Now I have to figure out which knife is going to take this hit. We need to make you some kind of sisal rope auto-feeder in return for all the testing you do for us. Thanks and stay well, Pete.

Nice, great test

This is just STUNNING! I'm extremely interested to learn more about where this will lead regarding different steels and different knife tasks. You should rent time on a scanning electron microscope (SEM) to study this further. SEM doesn't require special treatment of materials (other than working in a vacuum) -- there's no damage to the knife. I'd bet you could find someone to do it basically for free -- it's only a matter of time, there's no "wear and tear" or usage of expensive, disposable materials.

@homeslicesharpening

3 жыл бұрын

This is Gabe (the sharpener of these knives) I would LOVE to actually look at a micro image of the edge. I’m shooting an instructional now - will be uploaded by this weekend. Cheers.

@GetMeThere1

3 жыл бұрын

@@homeslicesharpening I'll be looking for your video (I think I've been at your channel before). A SEM image is the coolest of cool -- and is more or less required to really get a picture of what's going on here (because resolution is FAR above typical microscopic views).

Wow that’s interesting can’t wait to see the other one tested.

I did this on my s30v 940 and you can definitely feel a toothy smoothness to it

🤯 gotta try that with a couple of my blades.... amazing!👍😊

Interesting approach to creating an enduring edge. Sharpening on a KME, lately I have been trying to bring up the burr with scrubbing strokes on the 140 grit then moving to the 600-1500 grit plates for sweeping strokes to refine the edge. In my mind I'm creating "micro serrations"... but who knows?

holy fuck boys... pete its time to test the shit outta this technique. much love from the lone star republic.

Greetings from Mexico City and from the Profesor EDC.

This is the good kind of partially serrated blade.

@jameshealy4594

3 жыл бұрын

I own maybe 2 partially serrated knives (out of like 50) but there's certain jobs where I would recommend them. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think they have a place.

@tombrown8800

3 жыл бұрын

@@jameshealy4594 they do. I have 4 partially serrated blades but that just means I bought knives in the 90's. OK one of them was bought in 2008 but it's half Veff serrations.

@homeslicesharpening

3 жыл бұрын

True! This is Gabe: Here’s a sharpening instructional for the exact method used on this knife: kzread.info/dash/bejne/eKap2biLg9DOh6Q.html Short, satisfying, opinion free edge performance test/demo of fine vs coarse vs dual grit: kzread.info/dash/bejne/lYSJs5uldsevncY.html

happy to see your face today! thanks pete!

This is revolutionary in so many fields.

Question: Is it possible that this grind (250 grit) is catching small particles from the rope that then hang up in the initial paper slice, and then those particles are cleared during the first pass through the paper? And if that is the case, what would a single pass on a strop produce in additional cuts before clogging enough to end the test?

I think that we might need a Gabe guest star sharpening instructional.

Thats pretty impressive!

Incredible! Perhaps we have been looking for a technique more than a steel. This seems a hybrid of both edge types and Japanese 1 edge vs 2 edge sharpening? Might be real interesting with proper Magnacut and K390... Good work! God bless the hands!

Asymmetrical edges are also pretty interesting. The black void opus comes with one from the factory I believe. Can really make a thicker knife slice a whole lot better by putting a 80/20 or 70/30 edge on

Might work like a micro serrated edge? The sharp part between the teeth avoids damage from striking the cutting board. Thanks for the video 😎👍

You must have a good-sized sisal bits compost pile. It seems like you could also use it as mulch around the bases of your plants and trees to keep in water and keep off the sun from the ground.

Proponents of using Japanese natural waterstones have talked about an effect like this. Because the abrasive particles in a natural stone come in a wider range of grit sizes (within the same stone) compared to those in a synthetic stone, the scratch pattern at the edge apex would result in some larger micro-serrations and some smaller micro-serrations within the larger ones, in a sort of fractal pattern. The theory is that, as the larger teeth at the edge apex begin to wear down, smaller teeth are exposed, keeping the edge functional for longer. If all the micro-serrations were roughly the same size, then they would all also wear down at about the same time. I don't know if this is actually what we're seeing here, but it seems plausible.

Pete my boy, I suggest that maybe you take and screw two screws into your cutting board just the right width apart for it to fit your sisal rope in between them taking much of the force required to hold the rope steady off of your left hand brother, just a suggestion or even screw down a ring of sorts so the rope is at to slide thru the ring even... The idea is to work smart, not hard 😝😉

what do you do with all the cut rope bits?

I say we steal Gabe and make him Aussie like we did with Phar Lap and Crowded House and Russel Crowe. Bloody legend mate!

Nice background music. Shoji Meguro is amazing. From Persona 5 I believe. 3’s my favorite.

Well shit guess Pete needs to go back and test all the steels with this edge now (unleashed to the max) i would have never thought this edge would make that much of a difference.

Wow. My k390 Endela is due for a sharpen, I can try a 300/1500 with my KME, just need to review the scratch pattern and give it a try. Those are amazing results Pete, looking forward to the M4 results !!

Which m390 Benchmade was used? What was the model name/number of the Benchmade knife?

Definitely going to try, well,... with what stones I have anyhow, I’m wondering if the two different directions is also a big part

"That's the finger I use to push my rope." -Some Aussie guy, 2021 My meds can do that to me sometimes too. What I found works best to help is rhythmic breathing.

I will try this on my Worksharp Belt grinder! Should be interesting

Wow, this seems to be incredible! I wonder what it will be like on other steels? I might have to experiment sharpening my knives this way...

You should try that again with a ZE&XUAN: model zx2107 (redwood) model. 👍🏼 best $39.78 knife I’ve seen come around in a long time. It makes most knifes and steel’s look silly if you cut coconuts for a living. 😎

If i can recall there were similar edge discussions on S30 V awhile back with the same concepts. Nonetheless awesome analysis in the lab 👍🏻

Wow that's awesome. I want to try

I’ve only got a Spyderco Sharpmaker with the medium and fine stones that it comes with, because poverty. Could I get comparable results if I used the medium stones drawing the blade toward me, and the fine stones going the other way?

Pete you could get 1 or 2 knives of each particular "popular" new super steel and get yourself some stronger material to cut. Set a new benchmark with each of the knives and go from there. You'd probably be able to see what the ratio is like and apply it across all steels. I.e. M390 does 900 now only 300, few more tests, few more steels you might be able to make an informed assumption that the cuts will drop by 1/3 in total. Maybe with some slightly stronger rope 300 could be the new 900 and save your arms and fingers some agony :-)

@urastus9202

3 жыл бұрын

Or go fishing! 😄

@coturnixindustries7145

3 жыл бұрын

Maybe steel rope?

Definitely trying this tomorrow lol

One thing I do is sharpen with a coarse stone (dmt xc, 220 grit) then take the knife to my spyderco medium stone. You can refine it only as much as you want, and also keep some of those wide teeth made by the 220 grit diamond. No stropping, no other stones. It's very bitey, yet fine enough to whittle thick hair and treetop arm hair. Try it sometime! Usually do my sharpening at 15 degrees per side.

Would it be correct to assume the rougher side is being gently polished smooth while you cut which essentially is improving the edge and making it sharper for a time at least until you wear the edge out .

Very impressive!!!

Very cool!

Absolutely fascinating technique and results. I might have missed it during the video but does he do the different sides and grit free-handed or on an angle system? I also wonder impact this would have on the shape of the edge over the life of the knife. Would you eventually end up with an asymmetrical edge like a lot of Japanese knives? I have some friends in the culinary industry and a lot of them swear by 70/30 edges. Really fascinating stuff.

Pete, have you ever considered adding two nails or screws vertically near the edge of the cutting board so you can put a rubber band between them and run your twisted sisal underneath that? When you set the end down for testing the knife the band would provide friction to keep the end of the rope pretty much in place, but if properly configured I think you'd be easily able to draw it forward with minimal force. With the right fasteners a rubber band might not even be needed, the low angle at which you slide the rope forward as you slice would be parallel to the gap between the board and the heads (T is a nail, o is the rope cross section = ToT). Just my thoughts after watching several of these videos and seeing how disruptive the paper slicing appears to me as a viewer. Love your hard work and thought this contribution was worth my time to type; hope it helps or at least doesn't offend. (I have no idea how many suggestions you get to improve your process and do imagine it gets tiresome.)

GENIUS

I’d like to see a guide or something in this technique. It might be cool just to have some more details on this and do it on a knife or too. Awesome video btw.

@homeslicesharpening

3 жыл бұрын

This is Gabe, I’m working on a guide video now. Pete will link to it.

@HiresMerc

3 жыл бұрын

@@homeslicesharpening Great! Subscribed. 5th subscriber. Hahaha. Last time I was this early ... we’ll I have a daughter now.

@homeslicesharpening

3 жыл бұрын

@@HiresMerc 😂

Only about halfway through, but so far this video is going nicely with my jar of canned peaches.

@TheScottyp1

3 жыл бұрын

Jar of canned peaches? First time I actually stopped and thought about that statement. Kinda funny. Jar of jarred peachesjust doesn't sound right either.

@willblake72

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheScottyp1 It's disorienting, I know! All my canning is done in jars. I don't make the rules Scotty.

I'd be interested to see this technique applied to something like a Mora, a fixed blade with a scandi grind, to see how much it increases edge retention in such a case.

@drewpfeif5028

3 жыл бұрын

I was thinking the same thing. If there's something magical going on with the bevel, why not try it on the largest bevel you can find?!?

very interesting i can't wait to try it. which Benchmade knife is that by the way?

I love how often he uses tracks from Persona 5 in his videos

you should start CRYOGENICALLY treating blades and document which ones improve the most. plus dry ice would make it look more like a lab.

Came for the theory, liked for music choice.

Peter Knowland. Look him up on the forums, he's been doing this for like 10 years on chef knives. Look forward to seeing you resharpen that Benchmade with a standard 250 grit edge and see how much it cuts.

Twisted Sisal! 🎉

I'm guessing the reasoning is that the micro serrations caused by the higher grit increase the length of the edge causing less wear, if you choose the correct grit. The higher the grit the higher the surface area but also with a higher chance of the serrations breaking off, but if you go to lower grits your surface area decreases and so does the sharpness, so it's a balance. Sharpening on one side at a higher grit probably helps because if you used the same grit on both sides you'd have 2x the amount of serrations not to mention some would probably break off, so removing less material on one side is better. Would be interesting to see how this does against cardboard

So will this be an ok method for kitchen knives?

Some of the comments are way too deep for me. I've only been sharpening for 5 decades now. All I can say is - Interesting ! That and always glad to see you, Pete.

I tell ya the guy is certainly onto something here it seems and whilst his drawing illustrated unrealistic conditions im thinking that if it were possible to achieve that exactness on an edge apex it truly would be unstoppable lol

@homeslicesharpening

3 жыл бұрын

Hey Kevin - this is Gabe. The drawing is just to visualize, obviously abrasives are not round and they’d never line up perfectly. That’s a perceptive observation. I’m going to make an instructional video for the method shooting for upload this weekend. I just have never published a KZread video, trying to pull enough things together that it does not suck and is actually educational!

@kevinAuman1

3 жыл бұрын

@@homeslicesharpening well the biggest advice I can give you is just don't overthink it and stress the production value, the content is what is important and as long as you're able to explain your methodology and others might be able to replicate then it's going to be great brother! I knew it wasn't exactly a possibility but just imagine if it were possible to machine the basic concept of your edge perfectly, man that would be a knife! Lol

@homeslicesharpening

3 жыл бұрын

@@kevinAuman1 That would be a blade of mythological proportions bro. Thanks for the advice, truly. I'll try to chill on the perfection and deliver the content!

Pete, does it matter what side you put the rough and smooth i.e if right handed is the coarse side on the inside or outside edge?

@CedricAda

3 жыл бұрын

no idea! this is all new to me too. Learning together!!

wow so I must have gotten close to thinking about this a few times, but never use my knives enough to need it,, I always use a box cutter at work, and at home I just don't cut as much stuff, so my knives never go dull. I have a bunch of swords (which just don't compare to knives with edge retention for the most part, especially modern knives are a different world), though, I think this will be impactful because a lot of my swords I need to file sharpen, they just don't hold the edge from fine stones. In fact, this is the natural angle result if I file at the blade on one side, and file at it on the other side, it's just a matter of the round rapid removal and the mill file on the other side for a finish. My brother did give me a fresh kit of stones, though.