The narrative is going to slide seamlessly from "it's not real" to "it's too late to do anything"

@NeilDegrasseTysonWithAKatana

10 ай бұрын

It already slided from "not real" to "not caused by humans" to "not a bad thing" a whole bunch... "it's too late to do shit" is just the next step

@opossumlvr1023

10 ай бұрын

@@NeilDegrasseTysonWithAKatana Using the best evidence from climate scientists Al Gore claimed in 2006 that there would be no solving climate change if drastic measures weren't taken around the world to reduce greenhouse gases by 2016. So seven years ago it was too late to act.

@haydengalloway5177

10 ай бұрын

It was never possible to do anything. The only people that care are white people. A tiny and shrinking percentage of the world population. You would need to establish a global government where white people subjugate all non-whites and enforce climate rules on them. And I'm pretty sure as a climate change believer you find the idea of white people being in charge even more unpalatable than global warming.

@wesleywyndam-pryce5305

10 ай бұрын

and if we aren't willing to do violence to the people in positions of power they will continue on this path until they kill us all.

@etan3021

10 ай бұрын

Which is a false position too. Odds are that climate change will not wipe out humanity. It will definitely decrease human comfort and lead to a massive cost of human life, but odds are that even if the feedback loops lead to untold devastation worse than any model yet conceived there will still be human settlements and societies with enough population to sustain the species. There's too many of us and anything short of a gamma ray burst or an asteroid impact will still result in the species persisting in some form. And even in a climate ravaged future there will still be value in living sustainably.

Once it became an ideological position, people will just deny it because the other side says it's an important thing

@EddieBurke

10 ай бұрын

Sounds about right for the people who assign a world destroying issue as “the other side wants change and we don’t like it reeeee”

@0Arcoverde

10 ай бұрын

Since when it wasn't an ideological position? The first time, at most, is when shell did research and decided, at that moment, to spread misinformation and fund deniers But even at that time, there were research about it and there already were deniers about it, at least since the begin of 1900s

@climateteacherjohnj7763

10 ай бұрын

Yup. All the years and time I've spent on trying to get this across to people hits a wall the second they've got their identity wrapped up in it. Facts don't matter at that point. You've got to get to the heart of the matter and ask what matters to them. Usually, we can find a common thread on saving money, cleaner environment, fairness in taxation, or even, "what are we gonna do for our tomato plants as it gets hotter?"

@nycdiesel805

10 ай бұрын

climate change is real, all the news and governments talking points are BS tho

@BigDaddyWes

10 ай бұрын

I love this comment. It applies to everything in a general sense, but is also quite specific to the topic at hand.

Never underestimate people's capacity to lie to themselves. Cognitive dissonance hurts and changing your world view is terrifying. They are being expected to admit they have built careers, lives, whole identities on a falsehood and that takes more courage than most have.

@GroyperShaco

9 ай бұрын

"if you dont go in lockstep with the political establishment you are lying to yourself!" or i just dont wanna get scammed by bad people with bad intentions? why do i have to support EVERYTHING the left pushes? seriously what do i get out of it because they tend to be wrong on everything.

@Spincat08

8 ай бұрын

Are you on crack? The only people afraid are the ones who have fallen for this bullshit. Humans are insignificant. The earth does what it does and has for billions of years.

@michaeldavis9357

8 ай бұрын

Dead right.. The boomers resent they are being told they trashed everything..

@idwtgymn

8 ай бұрын

Yep, that is why support for climate change is so strong. If people could just ask - where is the testable prediction for this? They would see there is no testable prediction to support climate change and climate change is therefor not a scientific theory.

@Hoeass5

8 ай бұрын

@@idwtgymn record every day’s temperature for the next five years, have fun man.

I’m terrified for this summer. I’m Australian, and it’s predicted to possibly be a worse bushfire season than the black summer bushfires. Every year, it gets worse. Every year, more and more people are displaced and die. I’m seeing it happen as I grow up.

@thecrimsonaxe6037

9 ай бұрын

I'm over in Texas, and it's starting to become noticeably worse here too. The winter freezes are gonna get worse and worse and the summers are gonna get hotter and hotter. Grass fires on the side of the road, frozen tree limbs causing insane property damage, casualties from heat and power loss. I bet we'll be in the same boat as you guys in less than a decade.

@F0rger513

9 ай бұрын

Yeah if Canada is any indication with their "once in a lifetime ecological disaster" wildfires this last summer, things are just going to keep getting worse.

@mattsierra9653

9 ай бұрын

I'm terrified of how the government uses emergencies to take power and money away from the people and give it to themselves and billionaires; during the last emergency for example, the state gained enormous authority over people and billionaires doubled their wealth while the people lost half their wealth. I'm worried about the environment but the last thing I want is the government to "help"

@_exolite

9 ай бұрын

OMG FINALLY SOMEONE ELSE SEES THIS It scares me as well, but I have more hope that Labor will be less corrupt than the Liberals@@mattsierra9653

@teshlafreeman4040

9 ай бұрын

It’s similar with my home. Bigger and more horrible fires. Herds of animals dead from mosquitoes glaciers disappearing completely. It makes me so angry and sad when I’m told it’s not real

If you wanna fool somebody, you gotta fight against their intellect. If you wanna convince somebody that they have been fooled, you gotta fight against their pride.

@wriptag3

10 ай бұрын

This is so very true. It's what makes being a conman so easy.

@jadefalcon001

10 ай бұрын

This is something about humans that I *despise*. It is the author of so much of our misery.

@burnyizland

10 ай бұрын

This is a great quote. Is it yours?

@YukiDemonOfHell

10 ай бұрын

sometimes if you wanna fool someone you gotta fight With their intellect not against. If you say something in a way that fits in line with what they think they already know and then fill in their blind spots with falsehood you can very easily make a relatively informed person fall for nonsense. It's how you get pilots who are flat earthers, and nurses who are anti vax. (sorry if I misunderstood what the first line meant and basically just explained it >>)

@niamhleeson3522

10 ай бұрын

you might not be immune to propaganda but me? i'm built different.

People who say that they don't think people are causing climate change are REALLY saying "I don't want to deal with this, handle this, or try to fix this".

@latheofheaven1017

10 ай бұрын

Yes. Because they want what they want, and don't care what it costs (other people).

@ethribin4188

10 ай бұрын

I personally dont believe we "caused" change. Climat is always changing withing thousands or millions of years. However, we are activly influencing and speeding up the climat and the changes it is naturally going through. And faster then is healthy for the systems we rely on! It doesnt matter if we caused it or not ultimatly. We need to fix the damage we're doing either way! Just like its not the community's fault a person got run over by a bull. We've got to help, fix and help recover the runover person either way.

@jose.montojah

10 ай бұрын

Costs more glucose!

@miguel5785

10 ай бұрын

You're underestimating the power of ignorance.

@thedudeamongmengs2051

10 ай бұрын

​@@ethribin4188that's essentially semantics. Technically yes we aren't the sole cause of climate change but we have sped it up and arguably are one cause of it. The climate is changing in a way that it normally doesn't and it is our actions that lead to that change. Therefore, we are causing climate change. Or, there are several factors involved in climate change, but normally these are close to equilibrium. We have become another factor much larger than the others, and so our actions are currently driving climate change. No matter how you look at it, it can be argued that we are causing climate, even if we are not the sole cause of it

The oil company’s express strategy was to outright deny, then it slid to “it’s not caused by human activity” and now to “its so hopeless that it’s not worth doing anything about”. That’s their propaganda and they’re VERY good at it. People are confused because over the past decades they’ve been inundated with those three messages and they don’t really think about it enough to have their own thoughts on it.

@TheMasterOfShadows

8 ай бұрын

Deniability is because people are fearful and ignorant to the truth that we do not know enough to make 100% certain assumptions about something we are too stupid to fully understand or do something about. Anyone explains to you they know exactly whats happening and how to fix this issue is lying to you. Fear mongering you with assumptions and fixing a problem they don't fully understand themselves is useless. I hate it when people try and wind people up on these crusades to end up empty handed and a basket full of lies. But lying is the new truth these days.

@the_algorithm

8 ай бұрын

in 1979 the American Petroleum Institute along with Exxon, BP et al... proved Climate Change is Manmade caused by fossil fuels and decided to hide and obfuscate that information to make as much money as possible before the world economy crashes This information is available, but cultists will not... WILL NOT... read it because of cognitive dissonance.

@idwtgymn

8 ай бұрын

Why do climate change hysterics always worry so much about what oil companies say? They say what they think will give them the best public image and they change their story accordingly. When they accept climate change, it is not evidence for climate change, they are simply deciding that arguing against it - even if its false - is counter productive because people believe it already.

@alexsiemers7898

8 ай бұрын

@@idwtgymnbecause lobbying exists, so they can bribe politicians to say what they want them to

@ihatecrackhead

8 ай бұрын

I just watched highlander 2, an old movie where the earth's OZONE layer was gone and we had to create a force field then I REALIZED climate ZEALOT took 2 decades to comprehend that even my housekeeper has an ozone generator that's just 2 metal plates and a little electric we could replace the entire ozone in a few days and COST A MILLION DOLLARS oh no, better not let people realize we are numbr than a 6th grader but spent billions to do nothing what's the first RENEWABLE resource........carbon, you're a carbon based life form and somehow don't know this carbon is easy AF to capture, it's natural, in fact water vapor it 4 times more of a greenhouse gas than carbon carbon dioxide is 0.04-0'05% of the ATMOSPHERE, below 0.03% plants start to die off to replace the lose carbon how low would you like us to go?! history repeats itself when you are LOW IQ, and the rest of us can do nothing to stop it

The same people who tell you it's not real will, in the same breath, tell you about how back in the day there used to be snow on the ground all winter every winter. And now we get a few inches a few times, and they miss the snow so much.

This summer has convinced my 86 year old evangelical grandparents that climate change is real. The grift is running out.

@elizabethreid5554

10 ай бұрын

This is so encouraging to hear. I don't think *MY* 90something year old evangelical grandparents are going to change their minds but I have hope my parents will.

@spudsbuchlaw

10 ай бұрын

"THATS WHAT IVE BEEN SAYING THIS WHOLE TIME!"

@nancymencke6980

10 ай бұрын

I hope you are right

@LobstersLobsters

10 ай бұрын

This will sound cruel but their opinion or understanding really doesn't matter. The problem is all the people under 60 who think like them who, in turn, will have to wait another 20 years (when sht is exponentially more fked) to "come to jesus" about reality... Then we have the next group of morons under 60 flying and cruising around the globe voting for republicans... And the cycle continues and then we just die. Can you sense my optimism??

@SpydrXIII

10 ай бұрын

@@elizabethreid5554 mine might if they still lived in texas, but we moved them up to washington and the polar vortex stuff makes it so cool up here that it isn't hitting them yet.

When I find people who deny climate change, I remind them that pollution is bad either way. They will usually agree with that.

@SixOThree

10 ай бұрын

That’s surprising to me. Because it’s almost impossible to convince a republican that’s it’s bad to poison a lake they themselves fish out of.

@awesomedavid2012

10 ай бұрын

​@@SixOThreewell I'm sure the reason it's so hard is because you don't know how to argue, as shown by your strawman of near 50% of Americans you've never spoken to. Maybe learn how to argue and more people might just listen

@psylock524

10 ай бұрын

except they agree with you and simply pollute as normal. it's one thing to agree something is bad, it's another thing to do anything about it.

@I_like_Plants130

10 ай бұрын

I’ve also heard another commenter (in a different comment section on another app) suggest when talking about getting off of oil to tell them that oil will still run out either way, and if we don’t make the switch eventually it’ll run out. Since our current consumption of it outpaces the planets creation of it. Not to mention how the human population is increasing.

@I_like_Plants130

10 ай бұрын

I just googled it, and Aparentally it’s predicted that we will run out of it in roughly a 100 years. Which isn’t long at all.

You'd be shocked how easily people get swayed by emotions. People believe in a lot of stuff just because it makes them happier and less stressed, even if there are literally no arguments for it

@Guineapigsreadingbooks

2 ай бұрын

Especially if they feel helpless about changing anything. That is the really important second ingredient to the grift, „it isn’t real, and even if it was there would be nothing you could do“, and so people think that they either have to watch helplessly without changing anything or just close their eyes.

My mother truly doesn't believe it. It's bonkers. She just pulls the "I remember a storm this bad from [year]"

My dad is a denier (amongst other things) and i spent my adolescence thinking that if i learned enough science and how to debate that i would eventually show him how wrong he was. Eventually it dawned on me that he didn't want the facts he just wanted to be contrarian. So much so that whenever a new discussion entered public discourse that you already knew what his position was. I've learned how to talk to my dad now, by channelling that energy into benign sports or movie talk. My energy is a lot better spent on the next generation.

@climatedeniersbelonginasyl4191

10 ай бұрын

Oooof

@Snarethedrummer

10 ай бұрын

Dads, man.

@oldineamiller9007

10 ай бұрын

Nope, you didn't learn enough about science.

@Gobeline78

10 ай бұрын

I know how you feel... In recent years I've learned to just let it pass whenever my parents talk about their shit opinions, because I know my influence will never be enough to counterbalance the 'anti' influence (friends, info sources, their will to be contrarian) if they don't figure it out themselves. There's just no point fighting there.

@oldineamiller9007

10 ай бұрын

@@Gobeline78 So you also took the sneek out path. Shame on you.

I know someone who doesn't really believe in climate change and they made a remark about "I don't remember smoke season being a thing at the end of every summer. Has that always been a thing?" And I saw them soooo close to the precipice of understanding. It was exciting but scary to realize it's already so bad that it's nearly undeniable even if you actively want to disbelieve.

@CampingforCool41

10 ай бұрын

At the end of summer? It’s been smoke season since fucking may

@TylesBrain

10 ай бұрын

Can’t prove climate change is HUMAN caused without starting forest fires

@ep7672

10 ай бұрын

​@TylesBrain a lot of forest fires are started by lightning. You wanna talk to God about this? Maybe you can petition for more planning in where lightning strikes?

@bellaluna423

10 ай бұрын

My dad doesn't believe in man made climate change and we had a similar exchange about the fires... and he said he believes that climate change activists might be starting the fires.

@TylesBrain

10 ай бұрын

@@ep7672 did you personally see the lighting. There were many areas with zero lighting leading up to their fires… Quebec an example

1:15 Climate denial among poor people isn't that important because they don't have much power or choice. However, climate denial among rich and influential people, particularly those strongly financially incentivized to deny (fossil fuel stakeholders, CEOs, and all the politicians they bribe), is important. Note that getting elected mostly has to do with campaign budget, which is determined by how many rich people and interest groups donate to your campaign. Then once elected politicians completely forget about anything they promised to the general public and solely listen to those largest donors.

@NathaNeil27

8 ай бұрын

A shift in culture among the masses does sometimes help for getting someone in power that will at least try to do something positive.

@ihatecrackhead

8 ай бұрын

@@NathaNeil27 I just watched highlander 2, an old movie where the earth's OZONE layer was gone and we had to create a force field then I REALIZED climate ZEALOT took 2 decades to comprehend that even my housekeeper has an ozone generator that's just 2 metal plates and a little electric we could replace the entire ozone in a few days and COST A MILLION DOLLARS oh no, better not let people realize we are numbr than a 6th grader but spent billions to do nothing what's the first RENEWABLE resource........carbon, you're a carbon based life form and somehow don't know this carbon is easy AF to capture, it's natural, in fact water vapor it 4 times more of a greenhouse gas than carbon carbon dioxide is 0.04-0'05% of the ATMOSPHERE, below 0.03% plants start to die off to replace the lose carbon how low would you like us to go?! history repeats itself when you are LOW IQ, and the rest of us can do nothing to stop it

@giupiete6536

7 ай бұрын

'You' lobby & grandstand & vote for taxes and regulations that do absolutely nothing to solve the problem you claim we have. Why am I then to believe in your superior cogency and that received wisdom?

@ihatecrackhead

7 ай бұрын

stop the oil is funded by rich people with ties to the oil industry BTW

My dad believes in whatever is convenient for him to believe. My mom can’t be bothered to think for herself so she believes whatever my dad tells her to believe.

@Nikolasz1173

8 ай бұрын

based

"If you haven't been convinced so far, then I'll let the future convince you". Well said.

@Kaotiqua

10 ай бұрын

Needs to be on a shirt.

@Okusar

10 ай бұрын

Even then, they'll just blame it on natural cycles of warming and cooling. There's no convincing them. They'll always find some nugget of bullshit to latch onto to avoid having to accept that they're wrong. If hundreds of photographs, videos, measurements, and simple experiments can't convince flat earthers that the earth is round, then living in a future of unprecedented warming, rising sea levels, mass extinctions, and drought isn't going to convince climate change deniers either. Because the absolute hardest thing a person can do is to admit they might be wrong.

@treyshaffer

10 ай бұрын

But then it'll be too late. Everything about addressing climate change through policies and changes in our lifestyles is a just a massive catch-22

@VCR47527

10 ай бұрын

this is literally their goal. you put up with their policies until they've cashed out by destroying the planet. when the reckoning comes for the rest of us due to their damage, they have enough money to build bunkers and buy the last remaining safe real estate while the rest of people get hit by typhoons and droughts.

@johannageisel5390

10 ай бұрын

@@treyshaffer That's the exact problem! By the time the idiots might finally be convinced we'll all already be dying in droves. And then there are still those who will try to find a scapegoat even when they are starving because of global crop failures. They will say "the elites hoard all the food" or something racist. Just so that they don't have to admit that the warners were right all along.

I remember being a climate change denier (as well as believing an embarrassing number of conspiracy theories) in my youth. Mostly it was because my high school science teacher had a rich dad "who was in oil" and taught us the propaganda. It wasn't til I was an adult, parroting quotes from climate denial movies that a friend subtly suggested I do some research on certain facts. He didn't debate me, just pointed at one thing and said "You might want to double check that." Being a contrarian make you feel smart, but coming to grips with being wrong is embarrassing. It's no wonder most people's brains just turn off when presented with opposing facts, especially if it's in front of others.

@jaredlancaster4137

10 ай бұрын

Climate denial movies?

@PamelaContiGlass

10 ай бұрын

Good on you for being able to listen to your friend. My father in Law, formerly an engineer (aren't they all?) was and probably still is a big time climate change denier. He is/was (he has slight dementia, but he is 96) completely invested in the science of it. Not the real science, but the crap written by other engineers, cooks, economists, etc. (very few climate scientists write denial books). I think that by now, in his moments of lucidity, he realizes that he was wrong. Hell, he lives right below the polar circle in Canada and he bikes in T-shirt for far longer than he used to be able to. However, his pride prevented him from admitting he was wrong. That's true of a lot of people. For my part, the people that really piss me off is not so much the deniers, but those that believe in Human caused climate change, but try to make a buck out of it instead of coming up with real solutions. One that made an impression was some dude that was pulling pollution from the air, to turn it into polymers that he would then use to build smartphone cases. As if those could make any difference at all.

@cf3714

10 ай бұрын

@@jaredlancaster4137 Documentary movies. Eg: "Great Global Warming Swindle"

@jaredlancaster4137

10 ай бұрын

@@cf3714 gotcha

@spreadingthecure

10 ай бұрын

I was just having a conversation with a friend last night about this and said to him: "That's why we're fucked, because the average person is too fucking stupid to grasp the concept of 1,000 years from now or too stubborn to admit they're too stupid to understand it."

For my dad, I see his denial as him purposefully closing his eyes and ears to the problem. He has this perceived notion that he has been wronged and misled by climate change movements in the past, and it has built up this distrust in him. I don’t think he tries to keep himself updated anymore because he finds it easier and more comfortable to just pretend there isn’t an issue. While I have tried in the past to talk him out of this, I’ve found that it always resulted in a bigger rift between us. I still love him, and want a relationship with him, and so although it’s difficult to keep silent, I do it to preserve that relationship. I’ve sort of come to the same realization as you, Hank, that eventually he will be proven wrong, one way or another. In the end, I value our relationship over being right in an argument

@Spincat08

8 ай бұрын

Well if you push a climate crisis I can guarantee you made the right choice in not arguing with your dad. It would get you nowhere and on top of that you'd be wrong.

@Dap1ssmonk

6 ай бұрын

Man if you’re having an existential crisis about your boomer in charge of nothing of import dad not believing in climate change you have an easier life than I. At the end of the day neither of you have a noticeable impact on the issue, unless either of you can shut down the coal plants of China.

@troofinadvertising

4 ай бұрын

That'll happen when he confuses media reports with peer-reviewed studies. Most people don't understand that difference.

Climate denial IS important, because *whether they genuinely believe it or not*, they vote as if they do, and support actions to prevent mitigation efforts.

@ihatecrackhead

8 ай бұрын

I just watched highlander 2, an old movie where the earth's OZONE layer was gone and we had to create a force field then I REALIZED climate ZEALOT took 2 decades to comprehend that even my housekeeper has an ozone generator that's just 2 metal plates and a little electric we could replace the entire ozone in a few days and COST A MILLION DOLLARS oh no, better not let people realize we are numbr than a 6th grader but spent billions to do nothing what's the first RENEWABLE resource........carbon, you're a carbon based life form and somehow don't know this carbon is easy AF to capture, it's natural, in fact water vapor it 4 times more of a greenhouse gas than carbon carbon dioxide is 0.04-0'05% of the ATMOSPHERE, below 0.03% plants start to die off to replace the lose carbon how low would you like us to go?! history repeats itself when you are LOW IQ, and the rest of us can do nothing to stop it

@Fedghi

8 ай бұрын

@@ihatecrackhead what

@ihatecrackhead

8 ай бұрын

@@Fedghi ozone is easy to generate carbon is easy to capture water vapor is 4 times worse a greenhouse gas so why do they spray it in the atmosphere money, money, money, money, money and people go along thinking they are helping but the trillions they will spend cannot do anything or the money would stop. a company already has patents to capture carbon and make it completely inert, it can be buried in coal mines or pumped into wells, even if it gets to the water table, it will act as a filter

@MichaelAChristian1

4 ай бұрын

No one is stopping YOU from eating bugs and stop using electricity. Go ahead. But don't push your death cult on humanity. If all the people who believed in global warming went into woods and lived like Amish there would be no problem right? Go ahead. Instead of flying on private jets and buying coastal mansions. Wake up! Call upon the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be Saved! Read John. Get a King James Bible and believe!

Never underestimate how powerful and flexible cognitive dissonance is.

@lightningmonky7674

10 ай бұрын

So is cognitive dissonance simply the state of holding 2 opposite beliefs or is the discomfort that comes with it? I was always under the impression it was the discomfort factor, but if I'm wrong I'd like to be corrected. I could never live with that discomfort, I've changed my world views drastically twice in my life,bad id rather try to tune my perception to reality as opposed to doubling down. I'm only 23 but I'd hope that I can keep this ability if I come to find I'm incorrect on something important in the future, which I'm willing to bet I am lol

@lightningmonky7674

10 ай бұрын

Glad someone else said it. If they must go I say we take out religion with them

@martin2289

10 ай бұрын

@@lightningmonky7674 I believe you're correct and feel the same way, but in the common vernacular it's taken on a slightly different meaning with respect to people who find ways of ignoring the cognitive dissonance that should, if working properly, be alerting them to the problem of holding contradictory ideas at the same time, or having views that are consistently misaligned with reality.

@leveretth

10 ай бұрын

​@@lightningmonky7674It's good to see that at least ONE person in this conversation understands what cognitive dissonance is & doesn't use it to describe people with whom they disagree.

@jayjasespud

10 ай бұрын

Cognitive dissonance is actually the state of holding two contradictory beliefs and the discomfort that comes with it. It's powerful in that it's uncomfortable enough to cause people to rationalize and excuse, but it itself is not the mechanism by which they do so.

There is an important psychological and social distinction between "denying" and "refusing to believe" and I think you know enough about motivated reasoning to guess which one is really happening here.

@oldineamiller9007

10 ай бұрын

There is a big difference between "refuse to believe" and "to know better".

@tonyhakston536

10 ай бұрын

@@oldineamiller9007shame you don’t know what it is.

@oldineamiller9007

10 ай бұрын

@@tonyhakston536 It's exactly the other way around. I know what I'm talking about, you don't. Come on, try to prove me wrong.

@kathleenrobertpogue6818

10 ай бұрын

Sure, The climate is changing. How much humans have to do with it is debatable. My problem is you people seem to be on this self-righteous mission to "save the planet". That is not what it is though. For most of this planet's history, it has been inhospitable to human life. Even after life showed up most of that time has been spent inhospitable to human life. You people don't want to save the planet. You want to stagnate the planet. You are selfish and want the planet to stay exactly how it is right now.

@caseyhamm4292

10 ай бұрын

guys stop arguing both of our science uncles are here. also how you watch either of these channels and say that type of stuff? somebody hasn’t been staying curious…

That part about talking to someone who's 'on board now' and you literally had a discussion about it before and they claim now they didn't hold that belief before, when they actually said they held that belief at that time. This happens with EVERYTHING in these people's lives. I've literally had to talk to someone close to me about everyday decisions that had to be made or explain why things they did hurt us, and, many times, in seconds, I've pushed on them to accept how reality happened literally seconds ago and they will 'change their mind' 3 different times in 10 seconds, almost as if they're coming up with a new theory about what 'could've happened'. And it's clear from this person's actions and what they end up saying to uphold those actions is that they 'didn't mean to', which means they didn't mean to do that bad thing or that unfortunate thing or failed in that particular way, because they CAN'T fail or be bad. It's not a great way to live, but it's sadly how enough people live that things don't move forward as fast as it can.

That bit where you talk about people needing to feel like they know something other people don't. I think a really scary amount of people base their opinions on that mentality. To the point where they will believe almost anything if you sell it as a secret. I've always viewed it as an addiction like gambling.

I remember mentioning climate change in my religious high school’s American History class and the teacher gave us a whole lecture on how and why it isn’t real. This was, like, 2010-11.

@scottfromoahu2896

10 ай бұрын

That's subtly terrifying.

@NigelTolley

10 ай бұрын

Hopefully they'be been flooded out or struck by lightning by now.

@prehistoricorchid3455

10 ай бұрын

Churches really like to use this as a "this is the end times!!" Which.. lowkey yes but not cause of God, we're just massively fucking up.

@JoviaI1

10 ай бұрын

And that, kids, is why private schooling is bad.

@entropy8634

10 ай бұрын

The comedic tragedy is them dying before we can say “I told you so” as sea level rise drowns the coasts and irreversibly spiraling biosphere into 6th mass extinction. The world burns and they won’t be alive to suffer from the consequences of their actions

Ive heard the "whatever happens with climate its gods plan" line before. Of course when it comes to anything else they believe in "personal responsibility"

@dilanbrinkley3587

10 ай бұрын

Rules for thee, not for me.

@user-un8tv1pp8m

10 ай бұрын

Since most of the world has at this point legalized abortion to some extent, it must be gods plan.

@ZerglingLover

10 ай бұрын

@@ShannonBarber78good thing that isn’t happening, huh?

@Suo_kongque

10 ай бұрын

@@ShannonBarber78Yeah. Just Gotta Trudge along and head I to oblivion blindly, because that’s what your god wants apparently.

@curious1053

10 ай бұрын

This is why theism is another problem for society.

The last point is so true. I’ve had family members have the most insane takes like antivax, climate denial and anti-seatbelt only to completely cha get their mind and then deny they ever thought the opposite! Maybe it’s not important but it’s definitely annoying. Tbf, I was raised religious and could t remember when I had rather homophobic beliefs (they weren’t something I thought about often but they were there). But when I force myself to remember certain interactions I’m like man, I did say or think that huh? It really does feel like a different person.

@LordZurkov

8 ай бұрын

"You either come to realise what an idiot you used to be, or you continue to be that idiot."

@ihatecrackhead

8 ай бұрын

@@LordZurkov I just watched highlander 2, an old movie where the earth's OZONE layer was gone and we had to create a force field then I REALIZED climate ZEALOT took 2 decades to comprehend that even my housekeeper has an ozone generator that's just 2 metal plates and a little electric we could replace the entire ozone in a few days and COST A MILLION DOLLARS oh no, better not let people realize we are numbr than a 6th grader but spent billions to do nothing what's the first RENEWABLE resource........carbon, you're a carbon based life form and somehow don't know this carbon is easy AF to capture, it's natural, in fact water vapor it 4 times more of a greenhouse gas than carbon carbon dioxide is 0.04-0'05% of the ATMOSPHERE, below 0.03% plants start to die off to replace the lose carbon how low would you like us to go?! history repeats itself when you are LOW IQ, and the rest of us can do nothing to stop it

I'm glad you pointed out the fact that any solution needs to consider people who cannot adapt as things currently stand. I'm not poor by any means, and would love to switch to an electric car, but I frankly cannot afford to get a new vehicle and wouldn't even have a way to charge it. Government subsidies could go a long way to help.

@DarkZerol

10 ай бұрын

Government subsidies for green renewable energy does exist but loads of private companies abused them in order to get massive tax breaks thus forcing the government to limit or cut off these subsidies altogether. Go look up the case of "DC Solar ponzi scheme" the founder and owner of DC Solar used his company as a front to acquire fake investment from investors and at the same time companies and other entities get massive tax breaks for investing into DC Solar.

@Fux704

9 ай бұрын

Electric cars switch the energy source from the fuel to your country's power plants. If your grid is mostly coal, then your car is powered by coal. Not less pollutant. Also batteries pollute immensely, the whole thing is very bad to produce. We need alternative fuels.

@willowmoon7

9 ай бұрын

@@Fux704 Obviously we would need a more renewable and less polluting infrastructure before switching to all electric, but my comment was about the cost aspect. It's a lovely thought but meaningless if most people can't afford it.

@kellynnd5361

9 ай бұрын

@@Fux704i wont even contemplate EVs just for the batteries alone, it's trading one for of pollution for another and then we have the hazards of them.

I was raised in a small Christian denomination that was outside the mainstream of Christianity, and it was interesting to watch the people who joined the church. Some of them joined because they honestly believed the doctrines the church taught, but many of them joined because they enjoyed the feeling of being in a small group that knew the "truth". It made them feel special and important. That kind of person often ended up leaving the denomination and moving to even smaller, more extreme groups. I think that things like climate change denial and flat earth are similar for many people who are looking for something to make them feel special.

@1IGG

10 ай бұрын

That is a classic reason for conspiracy theories believer. So, you're spot on.

@cbrock6520

10 ай бұрын

Thanks for that input you probably hit the nail on the head because it makes so much sense. It seems like a common pattern people have at some point in there life. Wanting to be the small outcast group to feel important and smart to rebel against the majority but other people probably deny climate change because they’re profiting off the current system or don’t want to change their life for any reason

@lillianbarker4292

10 ай бұрын

I read How to Talk to a Science Denier. The author went to flat earth meetings. He came to your conclusion that people just want to belong. As Hank says, it takes a long time to convince people ( from what I’ve read).

@pattheplanter

10 ай бұрын

@@lillianbarker4292 All people love stories. They want their life to be a good story. They want to be the hero of their story or at least a significant character in a group of protagonists. Sometimes they make that story a wacky sf/fantasy/political thriller because those are compelling stories.

@ZZ-qy5mv

10 ай бұрын

That’s an interesting observation. I watched that Flat Earth documentary on Netflix, and it’s clear those people love believing in that stuff because it gave them influence in that small community and made them feel special. It wasn’t really about the shape of the Earth, it was about their ego.

Had a friend who always confused me with his conspiracies admit that he was thinking about becoming a flat earther because the appeal of not believing what everyone else did was strong. And that's when I realized that the human need to feel special was very real and very strong and never to be underestimated.

@studiodsr

10 ай бұрын

That’s really what conspiracy theorists are deep down: lonely. Worried that they’re not special. Desperate for attention (even if it’s in the form of ridicule)

@MrTaylork1

10 ай бұрын

Cough cough gender dysphoria

They aren't really lying. They are scared that reality is not what they want it to be. They are trying to deceive themselves. They put on this whole act for their own sake. They act like they're better than others in one way or another (smarter, braver, tougher, whatever) because they are trying to cover how absolutely terrified they are by reality

@user-jp5nc8zf7m

9 ай бұрын

No, they are men who lived their life by reading newspapers and listening to corporate news. For DECADES media ignored climate and said environmentalists were 'kooks'. Thats MEDIA. NOW suddenly people on SOCIAL media say 'thats wrong'. But even mainstream media doesn't really talk much about climate change if it can avoid it, because gas companies have so much money. Here in Canada our public broadcaster even now hardly discusses it. When the fires were affecting canadian cities, I looked at canadian media and hardly any even MENTIONED the wildfires.

@GroyperShaco

9 ай бұрын

nah i genuinely know we arent melting the world, and i dont shill for the political establishment like you do. the people you listen to are wrong on EVERYTHING why would they be correct all the sudden? irony is you're the one whos scared. thats why you keep supporting in lockstep the political establishment. because you dont know how to say NO.

@GreyPunkWolf

8 ай бұрын

Yeah, exactly. I work daily with a bunch of 70 to 90+ yo people, and although they don't deny climate change, they will absolutely question humanity's role in it. Because them and their parents were actually responsible for the start of it all. And the guilt is just way too heavy to handle for them. So they go for the ostrich maneuver

@GroyperShaco

8 ай бұрын

or they just don't believe what a bunch of liars tell them? why are you guys so shocked not everyone follows your radical political agendas.@@GreyPunkWolf

@Spincat08

8 ай бұрын

Projection in a nutshell.

tbh the hardest thing to learn/accept in undergrad when i was studying communications/rhetoric and a lot of activist work. you will never be able to pull someone from the fringe all the way to where you are, and (on a large scale) it's a waste of energy. you have to start in the middle where things are the thickest and work your way out. especially because the work ripples, and the outliers will somewhat resolve themselves. i used to go into arguments/etc assuming the other party was also acting in good faith, or cared about the things I did.

my mother was the kind of person who was "never wrong". she was always very smart, and when data proved that she was wrong, a switch would flip in her head that made her never have the opinion on the wrong side of the facts. so I'm quite familiar with this behavior.

@latheofheaven1017

10 ай бұрын

At least she allowed herself to be convinced by facts, even if she never admitted the change of mind.

@bulldozer8950

10 ай бұрын

I’ve noticed I do this sometimes and I’ve been trying really hard to make sure I face it when I’m wrong. Like “yup I was wrong, whatever” and move on, because I think it also helps you to better process the new information. What helped me to do it is to recognize that the only realize I think that is because I heard something wrong somewhere, because that is basically every opinion you have it’s built on what you’ve heard. And I’ve found it can be a lot easier to accept when you recognize it’s not really your fault, you heard something wrong and that just go put in your bank of knowledge and was used to form a thought that eventually lead to that opinion. And that’s fine, you aren’t stupid or wrong by your nature or anything, you were just misinformed at some point and now you’re correcting that. I think this mindset could help people to more readily admit they’re wrong, but I don’t really know how you’d actually convince someone to adopt it because I feel like any way you try to tell someone to think that way comes off as condescending, which obviously won’t work. But I think it helps a lot to separate yourself from the opinions you have that are all just based on stuff you’ve heard that may or may not be true, and in fact it can be hard to even trace back the origin of the knowledge so even if you know the source is dubious you might not realize the information came from that source

@PatrickEtheridge1983

10 ай бұрын

I had a friend like that. He would argue until you just submitted to get out of arguing. Even if he was proven wrong, he would still argue anything to make you give up. It's like a game to some people.

@sonjaquan5775

10 ай бұрын

I should make it clear here that my mother is not vindictive about it and she does not dispute science. She just conveniently forgot that she was ever wrong. As a person with a pseudo-eidetic memory, I found this irritating as a child.

@twistedtachyon5877

10 ай бұрын

​@@bulldozer8950"the king must have been ill-advised" was the backbone of governments the world over for centuries. It's a remarkable ego relief valve.

“Our old selves die, and we don’t even notice it happened”. Good rant, Hank 👌

I think most people think themselves too smart to fall for stupid ideas, so they don't recognise it when they start falling down that rabbithole. When they're invested in it, admitting that they were wrong has a pretty high mental cost.

Easier to keep people fooled than to convince them they were wrong.

As has been said many times, it's hard to believe something when your paycheck depends on your not believing it - but in this case, "paycheck" also means "political identity."

@whatabouttheearth

10 ай бұрын

"Wilks was no ordinary pastor. Along with his brother Dan Wilks, he was one of the U.S.’ newest billionaires. And their fortune came from an industry directly related to the planetary changes Wilks described in his sermon: fracking for oil and gas. The previous year he and Dan had sold their fracking company Frac Tech for $3.5 billion and each pocketed $1.4 billion. They now intended to use their new fossil fuel fortune to shift the moral values of the entire country-and the right-wing influencers they enlisted for the cause went on to become some of the world’s biggest purveyors of climate disinformation. In 2013, the same year Farris gave his sermon on “polar caps,” the brothers decided to donate more than $6.5 million to Prager University, which doesn’t have a campus and isn’t actually an accredited university. Founded by conservative talk-radio host Dennis Prager to fight against “liberal bias” in American classrooms, it packages right-wing ideology into viral videos aimed at young people. That model, aided by KZread recommendation algorithms, has resulted in billions of views across their digital platforms. “Their contribution essentially enabled PragerU to expand more rapidly,” Prager said of the Wilks brothers in an email to VICE News. In 2015, not long after the donation to PragerU, Farris Wilks provided $4.77 million in seed funding to start the Daily Wire, a right-wing news website and media company co-founded by Ben Shapiro. Then an aspiring conservative influencer, Shapiro would go on to have a personal Facebook following of over 8.6 million followers."

@ZeAwesomeHobo

10 ай бұрын

I feel like that may be the case. It's hard for people to accept being wrong. I can imagine it's a lot harder to accept that a large part of your life and actions have been making the planet inhabitable for human and current animal life. (Because let's be real, the planet isn't going to "die." It's survived much worst than humans.) It's easier to dismiss those notions and go on without experiencing cognitive dissonance or dispair. And the longer they're dismissed, the harder they become to accept because at that point many people have done it for so long, they made their stance part of themselves.

My dad is one of these people. One time he was like “I just don’t see how a couple PPM of CO2 can have that much effect” and I was like, “so you don’t believe in climate change because you…. don’t understand the science enough…? 🤨” He also said there are a few scientists who don’t believe it, which also makes no sense. He’s just grasping at straws because he doesn’t want to admit his political party is wrong about it, because that would open the door to question other stances they take

@mendyh9949

10 ай бұрын

If you told your father that he was being ignorant, that would be a valid point. But your alleged responses use circular reasoning and are simply condescending. Case in point, the proper argument against someone for not believing in something they don’t understand is that they’re sticking their head in the sand, not that they’re wrong because they don’t understand.

@jim23mac

10 ай бұрын

My Dad doesn't believe in evolution by natural selection. Partly his problem is that he doesn't really understand the theory - at least in detail - in fact he confuses it with Lamarckism which is a competing theory of evolution that opposes 'natural selection' as the mechanism. I don't think you are necessarily being condescending. Condescension is normally portrayed by tone of voice and facial expression. Often the best way to get people to change their minds is to ask them questions - get them to explain what they think is going on. Help them work through the contradictions in their own position - BUT - of course - you have to be respectful.

@SteveBluescemi

10 ай бұрын

My response to that one is "if this room were filled with 400ppm carbon *monoxide*, we'd be dead in a few hours.

@Jivvi

10 ай бұрын

So basically "I don't see how that could possibly be true." Classic argument from incredibly.

@yerielzamora

10 ай бұрын

@@jim23mac Buy you do that you'll be accused of "trying to get in their heads" with their trick questions and they won't let you!

A lot of deniers are... basically scared people are gonna give them shit for it, and they're never gonna live down the one time they denied it in the 90s. And given the way a lot of family members treat each other, I'm inclined to believe that fear. My dad doesn't let my uncle live things he's said down, at all. My family operates off a simpsons-like system of snark and comebacks and eternal grudges for hypocrisy, and.... honestly most white middle class families I've seen are similar. Through that lens, it just makes sense, to never change your view on anything so long as you can help it.

@GroyperShaco

9 ай бұрын

you mean in the 90s when the politicians you love so much told you the world would freeze now they say its gonna melt?

@ihatecrackhead

8 ай бұрын

I just watched highlander 2, an old movie where the earth's OZONE layer was gone and we had to create a force field then I REALIZED climate ZEALOT took 2 decades to comprehend that even my housekeeper has an ozone generator that's just 2 metal plates and a little electric we could replace the entire ozone in a few days and COST A MILLION DOLLARS oh no, better not let people realize we are numbr than a 6th grader but spent billions to do nothing what's the first RENEWABLE resource........carbon, you're a carbon based life form and somehow don't know this carbon is easy AF to capture, it's natural, in fact water vapor it 4 times more of a greenhouse gas than carbon carbon dioxide is 0.04-0'05% of the ATMOSPHERE, below 0.03% plants start to die off to replace the lose carbon how low would you like us to go?! history repeats itself when you are LOW IQ, and the rest of us can do nothing to stop it

@Terrible_name

7 ай бұрын

ah yes the ol' "I don't wanna look stupid because I was wrong once 30 years ago, so I'll be even more wrong about even more obviously stupid facts with stronger evidence against me now!" tactic

@ihatecrackhead

7 ай бұрын

@@Terrible_name the world's first and most naturally renewable resource.... CARBON

Some don't want to admit to hard truths, some want to live it up and make it the problem of others, some want to see the world burn, and some want to be king of the ashes.

Really wish we would stop saying "Do you believe in climate change?" and start saying, "Do you reject the facts of climate change?"

@Jones-pj2jk

10 ай бұрын

Then you'll get this: "what facts?" and then they'll take the position of only accepting the 'true facts' on the subject

@zrxnuts

10 ай бұрын

Yep

@Hydra48

10 ай бұрын

@@Jones-pj2jk This exactly. And all the people who do that will deny any facts as "true facts" unless it's a "fact" that agrees with their opinion.

@icycooldrink6085

10 ай бұрын

“If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn’t value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?” - Sam Harris

@PremierCCGuyMMXVI

10 ай бұрын

Yeah, science is not a religious belief, and saying that gives people the wrong idea

People have been lied to a lot, and some people take away from that "The truth is always the opposite of what you're told". Which is perhaps the only strategy worse than believing everything you're told.

@ericfelds6291

10 ай бұрын

This is the crux of the problem. It's completely fine, even good, to be critical of established power structures. But assuming an assertion is bullshit simply because it came from an authoritative source, or government is absolute populist-brain rot. People have become so myopically concerned with potential government/academic propaganda that they've totally became blind to corporate propaganda.

@lawnmowerdude

10 ай бұрын

This goes right past critical thinking and skepticism into oppositional defiance.

@kingcosworth2643

10 ай бұрын

Not a single climate model has been accurate in 50 years

@nsbd90now

10 ай бұрын

@@ShannonBarber78 That is histrionic over-the-top nonsense excuse making for intellectual laziness and getting bad grades in school.

@CL-go2ji

10 ай бұрын

Oh, come on! Fire is hot. Most people like chocolate. Falling off tall buildings can kill you. The Earth is round. WAY less than 50% of "what we are told" is false. @@ShannonBarber78

Hey, for what it's worth, I changed. I used to be 100% in the "people aren't causing this, and it probably isn't real anyway" zone, and I argued for it and everything. After, idk, learning about the world a bunch and becoming better informed, I changed my mind. Over time, I was argued out of it. Maybe it's a rare phenomenon, but it happened to me.

@parmaxolotl

9 ай бұрын

I used to be like that, then I actually hung around some people who knew science and made me realize that the existence and cause of climate change is not anywhere near as “controversial” as I was led to believe.

@ikemeitz5287

9 ай бұрын

@@parmaxolotl I came to the same realization. I grew up in a context that said, basically, "sure, the scientists say that, but we all know how much you can trust THEM hahaha." Like, it was common sense that most scientists had a major agenda and you had to judge for yourself how seriously you could take them about a given issue.

@aussie405

9 ай бұрын

Congratulations on being thoughtful, open to change human beings.

@jpkellerman7056

9 ай бұрын

Interesting, I had the exact opposite experience. I use to believe in and argue for climate change. I had all the facts behind me and armed my rationale with graphs and data and for years I didn't doubt climate change at all. I still find it hard not to believe that the earth is warming given all the data I have seen and friends I have personally known collect the data. The problem is lived experience is starting to undermine that. I can only go thru so many "must just be a cold year this year" years and it's becoming really hard to not view global warming as a good thing when in my lived life I'm almost never uncomfortably hot but yet almost always cold and looking for some source of heat. I'd be happier to fight against global warming if it was actually warm when I go outside 😅

@MattNolanCustom

9 ай бұрын

@@jpkellerman7056 I take it you understand that global warming means the average temperature of the globe is going up and that it doesn't preclude some areas not warming or even getting cooler? You change gross weather patterns and certain regions can certainly get colder while on average the whole planet gets warmer

I think you're right on people not believing it, but they aren't lying. Well a lot aren't. From what I can tell, people don't trust ANYTHING anymore, especially when politicians get involved. It also doesn't help that people try capitalize on it and make a quick buck

@troofinadvertising

4 ай бұрын

I have family that thinks we shouldn't do anything about the warming that isn't happening, but is also good. Also we're not sure. Also it's China's fault. Also, we only cause half of global warming, in the same conversation he says it's not even getting warmer. Dude's an MD and knows damn well he's lying.

Most of the anti climate change rhetoric comes from fossil fuel industry think tanks and front groups, because to address it means lower profits for them. When they say "its costs too much" they mean it would decrease profits too much and that's unacceptable. BP spends and order of magnitude more on green technology marketing than they do on green technology.

@Sodium_Slug

10 ай бұрын

I'm surprised not more people are commenting this. It's not like they lie for no reason, there's a lot of money involved, and it would be conceding defeat for people who are super keen on defending free markets.

@bluebird5173

10 ай бұрын

@@Sodium_Slug The scary thing is, some people ARE lying for no reason. Repbulicans and Fox News constantly downplayed the pandemic and the science we use to combat it (masks, vaccines, quarantine). And for what? What do they gain out of it?

@man4437

10 ай бұрын

It's hilarious how much of the "skeptic" points are about how someone like Bill Gates (not a particularly good guy despite his philanthropy for the record) is invested in green energy, meat substitutes, and the like - as a gotcha to point out how "they" have a vested monetary interest to push global warming as something to care about. And, like, they have a point in some ways. Climate change should not be something that's monetized for big capital investors solely to improve their bottom line, but like... you're literally regurgitating arguments DIRECTLY BANKROLLED by a much larger and wealthier group of people who hold the reins over our current economic system and energy production. It's like someone scolding you for eating a sausage while they pull out their pack of cigarettes... in the middle of a fireworks-and-petrol factory

@Dubinski2382

10 ай бұрын

Fossil fuel companies are making bank off the climate change industry. Artificial cuts in production inflate their profits. They're likely supporting climate change scientists more than any other industry. Wind and solar are guaranteed losers that ensure Fossil fuel dominance.

@Juniversal

10 ай бұрын

Thank you for saying the quiet part out loud. I don't believe for a second the right wing pundits that push climate change denialism believe it as much as they're bought and sold by the fossil fuel industry to create propaganda to protect their market share.

"I don't think people even get convinced; I think our old selves just die and we don't even realize that it happened" Holy shit that hit so hard.

@kbob2324

10 ай бұрын

My Brain says this rings true thinking about psycho mechanics, "I" at its basest level is a collection of chemical logic gates, an emergent property of which is relating the output of that collection to some semblance of the input which was processed to produce it (why did I do that?). In so far as my conscience experience of continuous reality is actually just an illusion created by the overlap of segmented reactions (snapshots in time so to speak), "I" is the thing denying that "I" ceased to exist with the passing of the last neural impulse...or something like that...

@christinarezanow6433

10 ай бұрын

Should be on a T shirt.

@zyeborm

10 ай бұрын

It's pretty right. I once thought humanities emissions were smaller than natural emissions and that climate change was a small effect that humans didn't have much impact on, this was around 2000 or so. I don't recall exactly when I changed my mind about that but I do recall myself saying that to a guy doing door to door solar sales. At the time it would have been around $30,000 Probably $50,000 in todays money for a 2Kw system. I think I was using that as an argument basically to get the guy to go away. Anyway I think than then that prompted me to go and have a look to confirm and I found out that was wrong. I think I went "hmm" and then had a more open mind to climate change as a whole. I think probably over the course of the next few years I changed as climate change became more of a mainstream topic and my position solidified firmly in the camp of yeah people cause it and it is indeed quite a big deal. I now have a 6.6Kw solar system (that cost about 2 years electricity bill to install, and paid itself off in 4 IE ~$4K) and I have actually helped a few other people change their minds on climate change as a whole. The big takeaway for me is you won't *ever* win an argument with someone on the spot. People will not lose an argument because losing sucks. Being adversarial won't work. Don't even try. You will just hurt both of you. What I found that helped was asking them "how do you think climate change works?" Most people who deny it don't seem to really know. Like *really* know. It's all about CO2 and stuff and whatever. I go with, you know how we get light from the sun yeah? and you can see that right? They go yeah. And you know what infrared radiation is, like how you can hold your hand up to the oven or a fire and you can feel the heat coming off it. Yeah. Well that's why it gets colder at night, because all that heat is getting sent off into space and things cool down. The thing about CO2 is it lets that visible light from the sun in to the earth where it warms it up, but CO2 isn't transparent to that infrared radiation. So the earth instead of sending that infrared radiation out into space and cooling down stays just that little bit warmer. Like how it stays warmer on a cloudy night. (I know this is a gross simplification of the actual process, but it's close enough for most people who don't really know the difference between the solar system and a galaxy) Now, remember you 100% will not get them to change their mind about climate change, but you do get to see the gears turning in peoples heads. Give it a few years and they may change.

@helloiamenergyman

10 ай бұрын

Ayo philosophy enthusiasts rise up

@ballman2010

10 ай бұрын

​@@zyebormI appreciate this. Being judgmental/confrontational tends to make people become entrenched, but just giving up does nothing. Planting a seed of uncertainty gives someone a reason to examine the facts later without anyone hovering over them.

Some 6 or 7 years ago I told some of my friends: "want to see tornados at the south of Brazil? Just keep taking down trees at the Amazon forest and Cerrado!" Guess what was in the news 2 days ago?? 😢

I don’t think it’s that important. I think that, like through the entire existence of earth, it will fix itself someday. The real problem is that humans think they are so important that the thought of the possibility of our extinction is absolutely terrifying to a point where it is all they can think about. The process of life is the embodiment of futility. The wise and the fool likewise, die and are forgotten. If something does not have eternal value, then it is of insignificant value. Edit: I respect your take on this Hank, good video. I just don’t think it’s worth the effort for me because no matter how much I use my gas powered lawnmower, it will never equate to all the damage done by the wealthy with their unnecessary jets, helicopters, super cars, and fancy boats.

Most of my family are climate change deniers. My understanding is that their beliefs are rooted in 1) scientific illiteracy 2) mistrust in activists on account of unrelated progressive political beliefs they hold 3) attempts to mitigate the anxiety caused by feeling out of control.

@eliontheinternet3298

10 ай бұрын

I agree. I know a lot of people are saying it's ego but I think that lots of people lie about their past beliefs or pretend new evidence "just" came out when they change their minds about stuff like this, or otherwise protect their ego if that's the problem. I think it's usually that they truly believe they are correct, and that anyone telling them otherwise has underlying motives for doing so.

@CorwinFound

10 ай бұрын

I think the last one (lack of control) is the one that will stick for the longest. Fear is potentially the most motivating of all emotions. Hell, I've believed the truth of climate change since I was a kid in the 80's and I manage to stifle the existential dread over climate change almost every single day. I *know* what's happening and yet I still manage to block it from my mind 99% of the time because otherwise it's panic inducing. I honestly envy those who manage to completely sink themselves in denial.

@lexaray5

10 ай бұрын

Mine too. I think there are a lot of different reasons behind it. For my family, it's like 1) scientific illiteracy/lack of critical thinking skills/lack of curiosity 2) us vs them, their "team" denies climate change and their political opponents support it and 3) religion. The religious part is weird because it swings them along the scale Hank is talking about: from "climate change doesn't exist" straight to "we don't need to do anything about it" ...because "this world is flawed and full of sin and if God decides it's time to end it then I'm ready."

@robertdaly9162

10 ай бұрын

There's also the fact that scientific rigor requires you to update your position. If you get more or newer data, you make new predictions. Or if one of your variables, like human behaviour, changes, you have to update your model. Similar to Covid "oh now the scientists are saying something new, see that's why you can't trust them." So they'll grab onto a prediction that was made in 1983 that didn't come COMPLETELY true (but close enough it's making life really difficult in some places) and never let it go.

@jwhippet8313

10 ай бұрын

I doubt it because people tell me all or the vast majority of scientists agree. But I know for certain I can go to the bank and be approved for a 30 year mortgage on a several tens of million of dollars home in a place that if the dire predictions are correct will be below sea level. Having worked for a bank, I know that mortgage won't see $1 of profit for almost half of its length, and yet every bank is willing to make thousands of these mortgages. I also know banks have teams and teams of people who pour over studies to tell the bank if it's bets are a good idea. Every bank on the planet is betting trillions and trillions that the dire warnings aren't real.

I have learned as i became an adult that humans, me included, are not truth seeking machines, we are validation/emotional seeking. We want to feel happy, we want to feel validated, and having grand narratives about the worl dhelp

@katharinecooke1873

10 ай бұрын

Oh 100 percent this.

@stefansauvageonwhat-a-twis1369

10 ай бұрын

Yeah but Its taken me years of pain in my bed and thinking about life to create a belief system around seeking the truth and what we know so far, because I prioritize the latter. But I also have a condition where I can barely understand my emotions and think with logical systems because my brain doesnt autofill with instict

@Stratosarge

10 ай бұрын

Yup. The primary objective of our brains is not truth. It is internal consistency. So something needs to flip and then turn everything else.

@andrearupe8094

10 ай бұрын

Fascinating, I totally agree

@Xatzimi

10 ай бұрын

Being social creatures does that

I’m so glad you can voice my (and I’m sure a LOT of peoples) internal monologues/arguments like this. It’s comforting in its own difficult way.

Less-filtered Hank is great! I kinda feel you. I think the only way to have these conversations successfully are to find some kind of common ground, but even that is not foolproof

Also, I can guarantee this: the next step will indeed be people saying "so what, there's nothing we can do about it". But once the effects begin to materially and visibly harm themselves personally... once they are "inconvenienced" and see there's no going back, no way out... the same people who made a pretense of denying it will say with a straight face "why didn't anyone do something about this? Why didn't anyone warn us? It's not fair." This is what comes next. Bank on it.

@stilluseful

10 ай бұрын

You are exactly right

@grmpEqweer

10 ай бұрын

...I live in Houston. When other places start flooding like we do, and they ARE, more people will realize we have a problem.

@elonmusk921

10 ай бұрын

This reminds me of a little comic(?) I saw where a guy goes “Goddammit, climate change has finally affected me directly. I give up; you guys win. I'll pay a slightly higher marginal tax rate. I'll do whatever you want in order to get this under control. But - and this is key - I will not stop being racist.”

@random_bit

10 ай бұрын

I hate that you're right, but ey u better believe imma be wasted and thinking about you when this time comes. You ain't alone

@WildWombats

10 ай бұрын

The sad reality is, those group of people simply DO NOT care about anything until it affects them personally or someone they know. Until THEY see it, then it's not happening in their world. The fact is these are people who only believe what they personally see or experience. If it's not affecting them personally, then to them it's as good as nonexistent. Only when it affects them is it suddenly a problem. The sad truth is though, by the time they see it, it will be too late to act.

My dad is a skeptic. He likes to think of himself as a very logical, very scientifically minded person. Honestly the only way I’ve been able to make myself understand it is that he refuses to believe in it because once you accept it, it’s really scary. For the same reason people avoid going to the doctor when they know they have a health problem. “If I don’t accept there’s a problem, the problem does not exist.”

@rubbykibress7808

9 ай бұрын

I had this mind set a few years ago and yeah it was fear. tbf I was a dumbass high school student and not a grown man but still. The only thing that convinced me was just sitting down and having a chat with myself and being like "do I really not think this is a problem or do I not want to admit that this is a problem" and it turned out its the later.

@Tom-xh8yj

9 ай бұрын

You should listen to your dad . I was 15 years old on earth day in 1970 not one thing these fear mongers have ever said has come true. They're 0 for 53.

@notlisztening9821

9 ай бұрын

It's probably not fear. The older you become, the harder it is to have a truly open mind about fundamental truths. As an old man, you are comfortable with the opinions and convictions you hold and everyone likes the feeling of knowing better - especially an older man.

@DellikkilleD

9 ай бұрын

ahhh, like the violent denial part of cognitive dissonance?

@Tom-xh8yj

9 ай бұрын

@@notlisztening9821 you do know that with climate predictions you don't make any money unless you have dire predictions. I don't believe in predictions that are paid for. They've already caught them cheating on the stats before. Don't get in the climate cult it's just another way of controlling you.. Look up William Harper he's an expert.

"i don't think people get convinced: i think our old selves die and we don't even notice it happened." now THAT is a wisdom. well done.

I worked with a guy from China who had some interesting perspectives and opinions that I feel like are definitely from growing up and going to school in the PRC. His opinion was that the Earth is simply too large for humans to affect in a global scale, and to think that we could is hubris; there's no way insignificant humans could do something to the whole Earth. He also had the same opinion about shark finning or overfishing in general.

"A fringe belief held by a surprisingly large percentage of people" kinda sums up a lot of contemporary politics

@swickens930

10 ай бұрын

"The world is gonna end and if we don't shame all the whores in the town, the plague is gonna get worse." That's what climate change fanatics sound like

@paleodan

10 ай бұрын

@Antonio-Granscithere are a number of things believed by the Republican Party and other right wing parties that are explicitly incorrect. For example, that the climate is not changing.

@TheEnmineer

10 ай бұрын

@Antonio-Gransci Perhaps 'false belief' is more accurate. Regardless, the fact is that a huge amount of politics nowadays (specifically on the right-wing, much less on the left) is based on false narratives intentionally spun to anger the populace or sow false complacency, manipulation to the ends of the rich or powerful. Whether it be to not believe that transitioning away from fossil fuels is a good idea (for corporate interest), or the fear of immigants and sexual minorities (for political interest in getting re-elected). This is not just a US issue, but a global issue. Unlike the other commentator, I am not going to solely point at the Republicans, because they're but one of many examples of this.

@mtk77621

10 ай бұрын

@Antonio-Gransci The earth is round, and believing it is a rational belief, and everyone who doesn't believe it is fringe nuts. It absolutely does not mean your politics are terrible if you understand that people who deny obvious facts are on the fringes.

@maylawson6520

10 ай бұрын

@Antonio-Gransci i have a hard time believing you’re actually a leftist. if so, you’re the first leftist i’ve met that’s this stupid. congrats.

I don't like how they could easily go from "it's not real" to "it's too late anyways" without changing anything they actually do.

@NYKevin100

10 ай бұрын

Otherwise known as the "four stage strategy": kzread.info/dash/bejne/oIeMq8etgJjPkc4.html

@TheCatherineCC

10 ай бұрын

The true belief is closer to "the right people are dying" but they need to be drunk and coaxed to say it.

@Globovoyeur

10 ай бұрын

@ploopploopploopboop1887 If humans as a group have done a thing, humans as a group can undo it.

@Globovoyeur

10 ай бұрын

Saying "It's too late to do anything about climate change" is just another stalling tactic. See The New Climate War, by Michael Mann.

@RobertBlair

10 ай бұрын

After "it's too late" comes "we could have fixed it, but liberals made it divisive and political, wasting any chances we had"

I feel that for the masses, it's some form of genuine denial/delusion. But I agree whole heartedly that for the denying influencers-those with a platform and a voice such as celebrities, politicians, and billionaires-they are absolutely aware and lying about it. It's their jobs to be informed enough on an issue to make points that resonate, and there's no way they were not bombarded by the actual facts during their attempt to research what they think they should say to try and debunk them. There's probably just too much money in it for them to stop lying.

First time viewer here, Frank. All my life, I have been struggling with something my Mother taught me when I was very young. You control very little in your life, and control of what other people think is an illusion. It takes physical and mental energy to try to control anything. When you spend this valuable resource of physical and mental energy on things you can not change, can not control, there is a 1 to 1 direct total waste of resources from those things you CAN CONTROL. We spend so much of our lives, worrying about what other people do, say and think, when there is nothing we can really do, no matter how much you wish it to be true, you have ZERO control. However, you have 100% control of what YOU do, what YOU think, what YOU say. When you focus on what YOU have control over, you will find your life comes into a very sharp focus. Example: You spent 2 hours arguing with someone on KZread, Twitter, Facebook, whatever, about say “Climate Change”. In the end, what have you really accomplished… NOW… Let's say you spend 2 hours with your parents or your children, grand children or even your dog. Now tell me, where was your time better spent? I have spent my life attempting to master this wise advice from my mother, it's something I will never master, but I keep trying. I have spent the last 5 minutes, typing this, attempting the EXACT thing I am saying you should not do. However, I consider this “helping”, because it has made me such a better human being, and based on this video, I think it applies to your frustration and confusion on the illusion of control. I hope it helps someone.

@FredGlt

10 ай бұрын

It makes me think of one of Max Wells's ideas we've seen in philosophy class. I don't remember the exact sample that we were presented in the course, but it goes around those lines: “Life is inherently unpredictable and risky. Humans seek security because it gives us a feeling of comfort. When our sense of security inevitably gets shattered, we desperately seek control in order to restore that comfort. This obsessive and endless loop for more control means we'll never be happy, since total control cannot be obtained.”

@SkullsNPockyLuv

9 ай бұрын

This is how I look at it. I know I’m probably not going to make a difference by sharing my opinions, so I’m going to do my best to not worry about it. But I’m still going to share those opinions because there’s a chance it could at least make someone consider a different perspective, and I consider that a win.

Honestly it’s very refreshing to see an exasperated Hank. It is very affirming to how frustrating I feel most of the time.

@nkanyezihlatshwayo3601

10 ай бұрын

Same. I think he knows this and has a healthy amount of fear - no one wants to see the Alex Jonesification of Hank Green; but it is comforting, and i think gives some of us the permission we needed to ‘Get On With It Already’.

@austinwinstead6543

10 ай бұрын

Ditto

@seafoam6119

10 ай бұрын

I find it very immature. To inject emotion into a debate like this is to lose immediately. If you can't argue your points calm and rationally, you may as well give up. Alex Jones was right about fertilizer chemicals causing frogs to swap sexes, yet he was made fun of because he was shouting it up and down.

It’s a phenomenon called willful ignorance. Some people would rather just believe that they are right then do research and face the possibility that they are wrong and they do this all partially subconsciously.

@idontwantahandlethough

10 ай бұрын

I mean we all do to some extent, some of us just do it a lot more than others. Honestly, it seems for many people, willful ignorance is the defining characteristic of their existence. It sets the path of their life.. in a very straight line.. with no growth. It's pretty sad to think about. Can you imagine living like that? That would be awful :/

@robertmills413

10 ай бұрын

He also touched upon cognitive dissonance. Our identities get so wrapped up in our beliefs (especially important beliefs) that we will simply refuse to absorb condridicting evidence, no matter how irrefutable.

@slayercrawford9694

10 ай бұрын

When i did my own research i actually found more evidence to refute man made climate change than to support it.

@nsbd90now

10 ай бұрын

Remember... willful ignorance isn't really "ignorance" so much as it is choosing to be wrong.

@steveb0503

10 ай бұрын

One can be intelligent AND ignorant - but, you HAVE to be a little on the stupid side to be "willfully" ignorant...

I am so glad you mention how people very often think they have always believed whatever it is they currently believe, regardless of reality

I live in a small country, the Netherlands. We contribute 0.4% to global CO2 output. We are taxed into oblivion. Our government wishes to spend over 100B on climate change. A lot dissappears in deep pockets and incompetent politicians are unable do anything right. They will not fix the climate change. About 10% of our population has the choice: Either heat or eat, at the moment. Companies are bankrupted, or move to a different country. With this destructive policy, we hope to reduce global warming with 0.00036 degrees celcius. Meanwhile in China, they're building new coal power plants. Global warming will not be stopped. Humanity is too stupid to fix it. The movie 'Don't look up' , is quite realistic in this regard.

Sadly it’s become a topic where too many people want to “win” and have no interest in being right.

@Alltime2050

10 ай бұрын

That's not completely true. Some of them are just idiots. Others are doing it out of greed. Most are denying reality because they worship a doomsday religion from the ancient world. They believe they're living in the end times and doing anything to solve the problem is the same as denying the existence of God.

@smoothwalrus9354

10 ай бұрын

Ironically for those who do just want to win, if they changed their point of view they could easily win ;)

@someone7554

10 ай бұрын

To be fair, this is not a situation where being right is enough. There *is* something to be won or lost

@Alltime2050

10 ай бұрын

@@someone7554 So, what exactly is being won or lost in this situation? Other than an argument, that is.

@someone7554

10 ай бұрын

@@Alltime2050 I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you’re not a climate change denier. Do you seriously think there’s nothing to be gained by finally convincing everyone else that this is a serious problem?

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.

@WoodCat

10 ай бұрын

They’d say the same about us though

@jackr2287

10 ай бұрын

Whose to say you aren't the fool? Skeptics don't make silly predictions about the future, that get proven wrong.

I'm guessing you were in the double digits hundredths of a percent BAC when you recorded this. You're passionate non-offensive drunken rant when you're like this is so oddly wholesome... love your work and the movements you drive dude, keep it up.

I love the new "did Hank take too much cough medicine?" format 🤣

11:33 My problem is those who "love" me stopped trusting me the second I spoke up against their worldview in literally any capacity (no matter how kind/gentle and understanding the approach). In these people's view there are good guys and bad guys, and if even a fraction of a hair on your body falls outside of their comically ridged world view, you are now a bad guy - you are brainwashed, paid off, malicious, etc. This makes having these conversations, in my personal experience, totally impossible. I'm not saying those I've interacted with are a perfectly representative sample, but if they are as common as my availability bias has lead my to believe, as nice as it sounds, this approach is ultimately futile.

@parmaxolotl

9 ай бұрын

My dad always says “this world is black and white, but people want you to think there’s grey”. I’m used to such proudly ignorant mindsets.

@Eric-cj8sb

8 ай бұрын

​@@parmaxolotlin reality it's 99 percent gray.

@TurtleMountain

8 ай бұрын

this is why i don't talk to my family about anything related to politics and religion, it never ends well.

@GreyPunkWolf

8 ай бұрын

Exactly. I can bring my opinions with all the kindness and thought I want, I'll be faced with "show me studies then." So I do, and then I get the "studies are biased". So I get even more studies, and suddenly it's an issue of me using Google even though I also use other search engines. It's never-ending. I'm almost 30 , but I'm seen as an immature child. Anytime I want to argue against pseudoscience or fake beliefs, the story ends like this. It's infuriating.

@Slattery777

8 ай бұрын

@GreyPunkWolf this hit home

As someone who teaches rhetoric, this doesn’t surprise me. People are not persuaded by facts (as much as they think they are and as much as we want to believe that about humans). They have to be in an echo chamber or choose to be open minded or have an emotional/motivating experience. You and I are luckier that our echo chambers are on the right side of issue/are generally with the facts. I think your introspection and honesty is really valuable and this video really fascinating

@safetinspector2

10 ай бұрын

It can come down to personality type as well. some types are willing and eager to test their own beliefs and assumptions because they want to get better, to improve. Others fear they will become lesser if they admit to being wrong. That's so deep down that they don't realize it.

@mobilityproject3485

10 ай бұрын

Some of our understandings of other issues, like how we got in this mess in the first place, are wrong...

@Capybarrrraaaa

10 ай бұрын

What's that saying? To fool an idiot, you need only outstep their intelligence. To convince a fool they've been fooled, you need to outdo their ego.

@MadScientist267

10 ай бұрын

No, some of us have brains and aren't persuaded by bullshit. We can't change something we have very little impact on. It's cute and fun and all that to blame humans, and while we are *part* of the equation, I'm pretty sick of hearing how "humans are destroying the planet". It's doing what it does in the process of correcting imbalance. Only an absolute *idiot* believes that 8B people aren't going to cause change. And there's *nothing* we can do to reverse it. Well, that's almost accurate. Nobody wants to do or otherwise even just allow to happen the thing that would *actually* help. A certain airborne virus comes to mind

@MadScientist267

10 ай бұрын

​@@mobilityproject3485That's because "how we got here" has less to do with us and more to do with the core nature of things 🙄

DFTBA needs to make bumper stickers and T-shirts that declare They can have my books when they pry them from my cold dead hands! Seriously. I will buy it. I am sure others will as well.

Some people just rather see the planet and everyone on it literally go up in smoke, than admit that their opinion might be wrong and change it. They might be adults, they might be well-educated, they might have the power to vote, they might have children, but they are so insanely self-centered and shortsighted that they will just stick to their delusions. Some because they don't want to change, some because they think they are being 'skeptical', some because they are scared, it doesn't matter; they are wrong. And there are so many of them, that they might be the end of us all...

baddies know this one has been public before

@anna._olsen_

10 ай бұрын

fr

@GaviLazan

10 ай бұрын

I got the original notification and saved for later an hour after when I came back it was gone!

@ltihaompson

10 ай бұрын

​@@GaviLazanme too 😭

@TurtleTime21196

10 ай бұрын

I saw it too. What happened? Was it under edited or something?

@rfldss89

10 ай бұрын

Did he change anything about the video? I rememver seeing it in my feed, but being unable to watch it and then shedding a tear 🥲

As someone in a deep red area, I am convinced that it’s mostly a situation where you can’t get people who are profiting to admit they are wrong. And to be honest, it extends to the “temporarily embarrassed” b/millionaires who believe they too could strike it rich drilling for oil. That and the power of good ole propaganda.

@elizabethmcglothlin5406

10 ай бұрын

People whined when one weapon replaced another--crossbows vs. longbows, Telephone vs. telegraph. Coal vs. renewable.

@alexjeffrey3981

10 ай бұрын

that, and anything a democrat believes must automatically be wrong because party politics

@maylawson6520

10 ай бұрын

i think it’s just a high population of really stupid people who 1. like being contrarian, like being in the “in-group” (see: conspiracy theorists and q anon) 2. billionaires know theres a high population of stupid people and use their money to manipulate said stupid people 3. once someone who’s dumb enough and egotistical enough to fall for it in the first place believes something like that, there’s no digging them out. we just have to wait until they die.

@swickens930

10 ай бұрын

I'm sorry but liberal tech industries are far more destructive for the planet than anything going on your little "deep red" town. Go to any office space at Google and you'll find a whole bunch of stuff that's dug up by slaves in the worst eco-safe way possible. Yes, because Nike, a super left leaning company, is totally innocent when it has slaves make their shoes. Good try dude

@twelvecatsinatrenchcoat

10 ай бұрын

Ya'll said the exact same thing about the pandemic and in the end it turned out we all wore masks that do nothing and took vaccines that don't prevent transmission. Why would anyone believe one of your anxiety-spells again?

The way I see it, especially for people in a position of political leadership for multiple decades, to accept climate change is real is to accept that your leadership has actively harmed the world. I think that’s a tough pill to swallow, and so seemingly intelligent people will do everything in their mental power to reject it.

I once had a chemistry teacher say point blank to the class he did not believe in climate change. And I was dumbfounded.

@MattieAMiller

8 ай бұрын

This is hilarious to me because it was a chemistry class that finally convinced me that climate change is real. My parents totally believed the narrative that scientists had been bought by liberal groups to lie to the public about climate change. I was looking at the equation for ocean acidification when it clicked that you cant fake that equation in your favor. Any more than you can change 2+2=4.

"our old selves die and we don't even notice it happening" is so metal, Hank, thanks for that.

@phillyphakename1255

10 ай бұрын

Yeah, that's me with climate change, civil rights, income inequality, etc. That old me didn't think that humans shouldn't have human rights! Old me didn't think that billionaires worked a thousand times harder than millionaires! Oh shit, I actually did. I was a bit of a monster. Imma go back to forgetting that I was a monster and the silent implication that I might still be a monster in certain aspects of my worldview and actions.

@Morboxx

10 ай бұрын

Thanks for the brutal honesty! We need people who will face that truth about themselves, that they are not the same and change and that identity is fluid and not a hill to die on. That we all should strive to become better people and that being better requires having been worse beforehand. People who fight that truth are people who will fight other realities, too, because they don't want to have to admit to themselves that they had to change.@@phillyphakename1255

@junkjunkloot4357

10 ай бұрын

@@phillyphakename1255 I understand this. I feel like it's really important to see your progress and own the mistakes of your past, though, and to always be challenging the assumptions and beliefs of your current self. We're reborn every day and we don't even notice it happening.

@mischarowe

10 ай бұрын

@@phillyphakename1255 Old you = didn't think billionaires worked a thousand times harder.. Also old you = monster Uh. No. Billionaires step on people to get where they are. So do millionaires - but just at a smaller successful scale.

@turquoise7817

10 ай бұрын

@@mischarowe i think you misunderstood, the commenter was saying that his current self believed that his old self wasn't a monster, but upon reflection, it was.

I've recently been pushing myself to practice 'forgiving' people or being wrong, foolish, or willfully ignorant. Not to condone their actions or beliefs, but to allow myself to let go of the frustration I feel when encountering that type of thinking. It's been helpful for my own stress levels, at least!

@Derek_Garnham

10 ай бұрын

it's the place to be.

@amberfuchs398

10 ай бұрын

"allow yourself to let go of the frustration" that's beautifully put.

@Roxor128

10 ай бұрын

It's okay to be wrong or ignorant. Staying that way is not.

@VeteranVandal

10 ай бұрын

Oh, but this is beyond just being wrong.

@michellgutierrez3937

10 ай бұрын

Yeah ok, do nothing while the world gets destroyed, such a pragmatic take, people like you are part of the problem, selfish self absorbed individualistic human

I can completely relate! It seems impossible that such a large portion of people sincerely don't understand this problem. I see some parallels between the petroleum industry and tobacco marketing 100 years ago. But petroleum is SO much more successful at messaging

We tend to focus on the car problem gas vs electric when a big issue to also tackle is the road and concrete construction issue where I think a lot of cities are going to be in a pickle if we dont move faster on resolving the climate issues with construction.

At this point there's also the generational complication of being raised by parents/a community who teaches you that it is false, so having to confront your *actual beliefs* and the idea that your parents lied to you or misled you or maybe aren't the best people/are flawed. And accepting that YOU have been wrong, and wrong in a way that can contribute to harm... so tough

@lemongavine

10 ай бұрын

My wife’s 5 year old preschool student said the Earth was flat. She asked where he learned it and he said from his Mom. Of course, she told him to tell his Mom she was wrong. I’m glad she did that. Even proud to an extent.

I think a lot of people just really can't accept it emotionally. They just don't want to change their behavior. They don't want their world to change. They want the world to be the way it was when they were 10 years old.

@safetinspector2

10 ай бұрын

I agree. They want to have single-use plastics and toss them in the garbage can without feeling guilty. They want to drive huge cars at ridiculously high speeds. They want to eat meat at every meal and eat cheese with everything. They want to run their air conditioning at 69 degrees. It they admit the problem then they have to reconcile themselves with their behavior.

@kathleenrobertpogue6818

10 ай бұрын

Sure, The climate is changing. How much humans have to do with it is debatable. My problem is you people seem to be on this self-righteous mission to "save the planet". That is not what it is though. For most of this planet's history, it has been inhospitable to human life. Even after life showed up most of that time has been spent inhospitable to human life. You people don't want to save the planet. You want to stagnate the planet. You are selfish and want the planet to stay exactly how it is right now.

@adarkimpurity

10 ай бұрын

You're revealing it is a progressive (or more accurately, regressive) political agenda

@alenasenie6928

10 ай бұрын

@@safetinspector2 You also have to recognize that people's behavior isn't gonna change, so why not make single use plastics that will degrade themselves in a year, they cost almost the same, why not have better designed houses so you can have your house at whatever temperature you want without problem (having air conditioning is actually the greener choice BTW, from an energy viewpoint, they use less energy than what the differential in temperature is), going at higher speeds can actually reduce the overall wasted energy, so it is more about the fuel source than speeds. And finally meat consumption, when you put everything on the table, it is not cut and clear, it is much more energy dense, it has much more nutrients, so it is not bad, the over consumption is the problem, we are omnivores, we can survive with only vegetables, but we need meat to have a proper well nourished diet. But most people that eat omnivore do not eat organs, they only eat the worse quality meat, muscle, and overeat, so the protein is not well used and they end up consuming a lot of fat, that is without taking into consideration how much just end up thrown out, so, it is other habits that need to change, habits that vegans also have (but morality speaking, vegans trow out fruit and vegetables, omnivores will thrown out what was once another sentient animal). The industry could be reduced to like half and there will still be enough for everyone that wants meat, just in a normal quantity.

@safetinspector2

10 ай бұрын

@@alenasenie6928 it’s a KZread thread, so trying to exchange links that debunk your points won’t be helpful. You go on and I’ll go on

I think one huge factor that people are largely not talking abt is the concept of not taking an opinion seriously. By debating an opinion you validate that opinion in the other parties mind, bc "at least it's good enough for this person to engage with me and with it, so my opinion can't be totally off the rails". I think - and im not an expert and havent thought in-depth about the consequences of this but - we should maybe try just not taking incredibly destructive and misinformed opinions like these seriously and largely ignore them (not ridicule them or be disrespectful though), i think that might counterintuitively work better than adressing them objectively and with facts and data. Thinking about the dynamics of early human communities that would make sense, shame and group-acceptance have always been huge factors in building and maintaining opinions. I think we might have grown too tolerant of ignorance as a society. 💝💝💝

I remember as a kid being scared of a news story about a meteorite hitting earth. Like crazy scared of dying and the world ending. My point is we talk too casual about global warming "ending" life on earth. Can't imagine being a kid these days...

I had a denier use the dust bowl (a chart showing temperature spiking during those years) as an example that it's been hot before. I informedthem the dust bowl is one of the largest man-made environmental disaster ever.

@Kaotiqua

10 ай бұрын

One of the things that astonishes me the most I think is that so many climate deniers are elderly. As an older person myself, I'm like, you've been alive for so long... how can you not see how much things have changed since you were a kid? I'm only in my 50s, and watching the world physically _change_ over the course of my short life has been pretty alarming.

@hngldr

10 ай бұрын

​@@KaotiquaA ton of it is obviously that past a certain age people lose cold tolerance (one of the drivers for old folks moving south to retire). As someone in retail sales, many people make it clear through tidbits in conversation that they want it to be warming up but don't want people knowing they're that stupid/selfish so they deny it instead. Many have straight up said things to me like "good - you guys will figure it out, besides its too damn cold in the winter here anyways." And not to antagonize me or joke - they were perfectly calm and clearly believed that.

@oldineamiller9007

10 ай бұрын

Well, then you told them lies. It was warmer in 2003 than today and it was even warmer in 1935 than it was in 2003. You have still a lot to learn, little boy.

@gamemeister27

10 ай бұрын

​@@oldineamiller9007That's patently false. Average global temperature is significantly higher now and still rising. As of 2022, the 9 warmest years on record were exactly the 9 previous years! Use your brain, Google something for once in your life, look at records, quit your bullshit!

@gamemeister27

10 ай бұрын

​@@oldineamiller9007www.ncei.noaa.gov/access/monitoring/monthly-report/global/202213

The irony of course, is that the reason transition costs are so high NOW is because these same people and especially those who spread denialism and misinfo succesfully prevented us from gradually transitioning 40+ years ago! I get the impulse to just let the deniers die out, but our collective failure to stop/convince them is the primary reason we're in this mess.

@page8301

10 ай бұрын

It is not our failure. It is our politicians failure to time and again were too spineless to stand up to big corporations and force them to adopt a slow transition.

@david_wellington

10 ай бұрын

This is exactly right. The success of early denial (not happening, not us) in delaying action made the later denial (too expensive) more compelling, although still very far from true compared to the true cost of inaction. There is no punishment sufficient for the relatively few leaders of this orchestrated misinformation campaign, not that they will ever be punished anyway.

@purpleghost106

10 ай бұрын

It is our collective failure, as a species, but I can still be mad at the Politicians, Corporations, Rich prats, and any individuals who had the means to make change happen, and chose not to. (especially as you point out, they've had over FOURTY YEARS!! It's inconceivable to me that they can *still* be this hellbent on just destroying the only planet we have, and they have plenty of evidence that is exactly what's happening.)

@zorkmid1083

10 ай бұрын

​@@page8301 It's a failure somewhere, because the politicians who kept unwinding efforts to get off of fossil fuels were elected.

@casualpequod6054

10 ай бұрын

The problem is that it's not gonna be the deniers suffering the costs but the people who already have it the worst.

"Sometimes it takes longer than their lifespan" really hit home as I am currently dealing with a situation where I am out of pocket a lot of money because of my parents' arrogance. It's so hard to take action decisively and not be immediately as stymied as you try to move forward.

The big issue is that nobody can really test if their action (reducing carbon output) actually reduces global warming unless everyone commit to doing it for an extended period of time. The only way to get around this socially impossible collaboration is through cold hard laws. Then no one ever needs to “believe” it anymore.

It's a low-return move to argue with climate change denial. Anyone denying it staked their identity or livelihood on the denial, so you aren't going to shake that without adopting them.

@TylesBrain

10 ай бұрын

Yep. It’s difficult to move someone from the rock of truth because that rock is Jesus! God is in control. Climate change isn’t caused my humans… climate change is caused by God! Fight climate change and we all lose!

@seafoam6119

10 ай бұрын

I'm a 'climate change denier'. I don't lose sleep over climate change. I'm just bothered by policy that affects me, all in a vain attempt to 'curb emissions'. Swapping from gas powered cars to electric won't do a thing. Shutting down our production plants wont do a thing. Shutting down oil pipelines will only make you poorer. The rest of the world will continue emitting, despite what the Paris Agreement makes you believe. In my opinion, the only solution is to simply cheapen electricity, improve power generation, raise people out of poverty so they could give up coal for nuclear and live in a better world where technological improvements aren't banned in favor of climate policy created by self serving politicians.

@lunarscapes6016

10 ай бұрын

@@seafoam6119So basically (if I’m understanding you correctly. Feel free to let me know if I’m not), you are saying that you believe this is the prisoner’s dilemma, where only if everyone chooses the right option will we be in a better place, but if anyone alone tries to “end” climate change, it would be in vain because we are alone and would put us in a worse state. The difference between the real world and the prisoner’s dilemma is that in the real world, we can make small steps and go back if no one else also makes those small steps. I agree with you on the fact that making electricity cheaper would be a great move, however the way to make electricity cheaper is to use easier methods like burning more fossil fuels to generate it, which would completely eliminate the effect of using electric cars. So the reason why I would say to go with people who want to do something about climate change is because if it doesn’t work and no one else joins in, we can go back. If they do join in, we can go further. This video is essentially talking about how most people are actually in your situation rather than a situation where they don’t think climate change is real. If you saw every other country start moving towards preventing climate change, it seems to me like you would join if you felt you would actually be making a difference. I’m not trying to change your mind on what you vote for or what you believe, but hopefully what I wrote gave you a little bit more of the picture that I see that makes me want to do something about climate change.

@ace-kz9id

10 ай бұрын

@@lunarscapes6016 the problem with what you said is that in real life IF on a state level we dont mantain domanice more bad things are going to happen should russia or china refuse to play ball by weaking them selfs but stepping away from oil use

@julesk1567

10 ай бұрын

@@ace-kz9idI don’t see how getting off of oil and onto renewables could in any way negatively impact US foreign policy or power. On the contrary, losing the oil and gas addiction would make the US a lot less dependent on OPEC or individual oil producing countries (Saudis…).

This needed to be said. The energy needed to convince people who are acting in bad faith is better spent moving forward with solutions.

@procrastinator41

10 ай бұрын

🎯

@thomasdequincey5811

10 ай бұрын

How do you know, for certain, if someone is acting in bad faith?

@kevincomerford2242

10 ай бұрын

Totally agree, but if that crowd is hold back progress then something has to be done.

@IzzieIslandheart

10 ай бұрын

@@thomasdequincey5811 The way Hank just articulated in the video. If they're still deniers, they're acting in bad faith. It's either bad faith because they've retreated into tribalism and their in-group denies it (they are shutting out rational thoughts in favor of still belonging to their group), or it's bad faith because a few dollars of tax money or exchanging the latest Octoburger challenge for eating reasonably is "too much cost" for them (selfishness).

@oldineamiller9007

10 ай бұрын

Unreal problems do not request real solutions.

There's a wonderful YT documentary made by Dan Olson called In "Search Of A Flat Earth", in which the latter half of it explores and tries to explain why some people; despite everything, adamantly state that they believe in their obviously outrageous claims and worldviews, and how by clinging to those believes; not in spite of, but BECAUSE those believes are so outrageous, they then derive power and control from said believes.

there will be a day when "climate change denial" will be on the same level of disrespect to humanity as "holocaust denial", which is also a real thing by the way. it also has some eerily similar "levels" on the scale, like you say (and also has a strangely large overlap of people who are in denial of both).

@fredranzalot4849

8 ай бұрын

So in a hundred years we'll have a huge resurgence of climate change denial?

It's getting harder to deny when every year is a "heat record year", and it's become the norm to expect that next year will continue the trend.

@NonsenseFabricator

10 ай бұрын

I think the mainstream conservative position will become belief in government weather control machines. (Then get mad if you say that's technically manmade global warming.)

@r-gart

10 ай бұрын

Except it isn't heat record year, like, never. The heat record year was a few billions ago.

@renezirkel

10 ай бұрын

@@r-gart It is a record year since the arrival of humanity. If you dont count for human conditions you are right.

@calamar1e320

10 ай бұрын

"it was hotter than we could ever make it 65 million years ago when an asteroid hit the earth so our current numbers don't matter actually"

@calamar1e320

10 ай бұрын

And yes I know they said billions but exact same mentality

My husband and i had a huuuuuge fight about climate change. I was on the pro side, he was anti. I was able to, after hours of fighting, able to access that he was a climate change denier due to fear. He did not want to accept that it was a reality because that meant some very bad truths that he didnt want to accept yet. He has since come to the acceptance and im very proud of him. Weve talked about it at length.

@jackdeniston59

10 ай бұрын

Enjoy your divorce.

@CamiloSantana

10 ай бұрын

he's fortunate to have such a patient partner. Kudos to you.

@CRneu

10 ай бұрын

The fear thing is very real. When I went vegan I had to figure out how to explain why to people. I went vegan because of environmental reasons. Trying to explain to ideological carnivores that their diet contributes to climate change is a really uphill battle because they're really scared to admit that meat is bad. Meat, to them, is a huge part of their personality. It doesn't help that the media has told them that "real americans eat meat". We have to change a lot of how we live our lives, from what we drive to what we eat to the materials we use in our everydays lives. It's daunting, overwhelming, and scary.

@flopsnail4750

10 ай бұрын

​@@jackdeniston59"arguing" is not necessarily bad. Letting your feelings bottle up and inevitably explode is bad. Communicating like this is super healthy

@flopsnail4750

10 ай бұрын

​@@CRneuyes. Let's at least be scared together, I say

I've also heard another denier tactic akin to doomerism that is "well it's too late now so there's no point in doing anything ". Which like switching so quickly from "it's no big deal/not a big enough deal to invest in changes" to "well it's too late now" is fucking WILD.

I think a lot of people are scared of being wrong. If you have been calling environmentalists idiots for 30 years, then suddenly you agree with them, its like admitting you were the idiot for those 30 years. We can see how important being right is to people when we read arguments on the internet. At the end of the day the best counter I saw was a cartoon during the Paris climate conference. A guy at the conference stands up a shouts hysterically "but, what if we make the world a better place for nothing".

The thing that always irks me is when a ton of people are bizarrely wrong about a thing, and then an event finally proves it, and then all of those people evaporate. There's never the cathartic moment of hundreds of people saying "Wow, I was wrong. Sorry, guys!" I'd forgive immediately, but I don't even get to. Like when all those people thought the world was going to end in 2012, making a big stink about it, and then it didn't, and poof! Never heard from a single one of them again. It's happened over and over through the decades.

@joshc5613

10 ай бұрын

I don't think they just never talk about things again. I think most of them just go on to being bizarrely wrong about other things

@TheDancingHyena

10 ай бұрын

Or like the conspiracy theories surrounding the covid vaccine, so many people saying so many crazy things about it, that people were going to end up dying and kinds of nonsense.

@lotoex

10 ай бұрын

@@joshc5613 Yep and it happens a lot in doomsday predictions. kzread.info/dash/bejne/d2WZl6p6itKamdo.html

@royceroyce7715

10 ай бұрын

I grew up around a LOT of the "the world is ending in 2012" folks, and while I didn't believe in that, I DID worry that those people in my life (and others like them) would start doing wild crap to, uh, "beat the apocalypse." Having grown up with an uncle who said he'd rather drown his family than wait for the end, I was afraid of that year bc of people like him. So, naturally, I called to check up on my bf in December, when the big bad was supposed to happen. I asked if he was doing ok, if there was any cultist crap, if his neighborhood was safe with all the conspiracy nuts, and he just laughed. He genuinely thought I was being ABSURD even worrying about the doomsdayers, and suddenly I was a little shamed-- from the outside, I didn't look any more tethered than my uncle. I apologized, but that was kind of the nail in the coffin, we broke up right after. For years I was so ashamed of how much fear mongering I had done without meaning to, and it didn't occur to me to publicly post about the context of my shift/sudden silence and moving on. I ultimately did, in the interest of trying to open up lines to people who maybe soft cut ties because I was One of Those People. I only share this bc I imagine a lot of the true believers (and casual worriers) were so embarrassed by how much time they spent in the grift that they still don't know how to acknowledge it without feeling like they're going to lose more face (admitting to being tricked or led on) than by staying silent. It's weird because they really didn't, but it's one of those emotional vs rational responses. People don't want to admit their pride made them marks. But I do think a good portion committed themselves to trying to spot other grifts. Unfortunately I think many others ran to more welcoming conspiracy communities that already had a locked and loaded Other to blame for things not going "according to plan." Eeesh.

@lt3880

10 ай бұрын

oh no those people still think the world ended in 2012 and we live in purgatory or a simulation or some other unfalsifiable bullshit.

As someone said: "it's hard to reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."

I agree with you, it is contrarianism. It's the same reason why every fanbase for everything is infested with really overdramatic "True fans" who are upset about almost every new adaptation or sequel released. People who crave attention, and they discover that they get it by being contrary and theatrical.

The sad thing is that these people would rather be contrary or deflective than admit that they were wrong, and that petty pride is going to hurt alot of innocent people in the future.