Long rambly video alert! Feel free to use the chapter timestamps in the video description and seek bar to find the parts that you are interested in! Buy the Framework Laptop 13: frame.work/gb/en/products/laptop-diy-13-gen-intel Buy other components used on Amazon (Affiliate): - KIOXIA EXCERIA 500GB NVMe M.2 SSD: geni.us/C8Vz6 - Crucial 16GB DDR4 3200MHz SODIMM Kit: geni.us/uF37fyW

@NicVandEmZ

11 ай бұрын

Can you hackintosh a framework laptop

11 ай бұрын

What do you think about the battery? How long it lasts for you? I am going for the I5 too

@X862go

6 ай бұрын

nope i will wait for amd !

I hope people don't take the upgradability for granted. It's going to be hard to shake off that planned obsolescence mindset that companies have pushed on us for years, but I hope people will start to realize that this should be the norm, and not niche.

One note on why your latop booted so slowly on the first boot. That is memory train. It happens every time you swap RAM as the CPU has to work on the RAM. Its actually quite slow. People that build PCs are used to it but its rare on a laptop because the first boot is done at the factory so the RAM is already trained. Usually you can only see it if you swap/upgrade RAM. On the Framework you got it ,because the RAM is brand new , so there was no factory testing on it.

@camerongray1515

11 ай бұрын

@dongreek3500 I'm certainly not a "tech model" nor am I "unfamiliar with computers" - I just haven't built a machine with a brand new motherboard in a while so every time I do I forget about the memory training. Someone's entire technical ability isn't defined by their ability to remember a particular thing about building a PC.

@UKTonyMagill

11 ай бұрын

​@camerongray1515 how would you forget something as fundamental as that? I'm not sure I believe you.

@camerongray1515

11 ай бұрын

@UKTonyB1 Maybe because my day job doesn't involve building PCs? The last time I built PCs semi-regulaly was in the days of DDR3 which if memory serves didn't have the same level of memory training. There's a lot more to the tech industry than building PCs!

@kyberzyler

11 ай бұрын

@@camerongray1515 "if memory serves" is a great pun

@zxcvb_bvcxz

10 ай бұрын

@@UKTonyMagillI've dealt with DRAM training before and I probably wouldn't remember this. It's also reasonably hard to search for without knowing the exact terms.

If people want to buy a new laptop instead of upgrading then they still can. The difference is that they can sell their old Framework to someone who can upgrade it themselves, and sell it for more money than a unit that can't easily be fixed.

@camerongray1515

11 ай бұрын

That's definitely true, I was more saying it based on the amount of people talking about Framework and how good it is being able to upgrade the motherboard - it's great to have, but I wanted to give my perspective on why I feel this isn't necessarily the biggest deal for many people. It's not really like a desktop PC where you can keep the same case.etc for 10+ years.

@Thomas_wur

11 ай бұрын

It’s the closest laptop to a desktop pc. For how long the old cases, screens etc will be compatible with new motherboards is something only time will tell

@OM-bs7of

10 ай бұрын

The problem with framework is cost. The cost of the mainboard alone can get you a fairly repairable and decent laptop such as an hp elitebook 845 g8

@StuTubed

10 ай бұрын

@@OM-bs7of Small company, fewer economies of scale. It's not the most efficient short term purchase, but going by the numbers they're selling, there's clearly a market for a user serviceable laptop even if there is a premium associated with it.

Note, Framework has an open-source 3D printable case and a commercial case made in collaboration with Cooler Master, allowing you to reuse your old motherboard as a HTPC, or giving it to someone else as a decent desktop. I'd make my old motherboard a OpnSense router or maybe a Home Assistant rig? Plenty of ideas.

I reckon it's definitely worth the hype! I actually just recently swapped out the 12th Gen board for the 13th Gen one. I hope they stick around for the long run, the laptop feels very nice to use 😀

Nice to see your review of the Framework. I like the attention to detail they've had with the product. There's little things like when you remove the keyboard that trips an intrusion switch to make sure the laptop is powered off before a user goes to replace stuff! And something no one else does is neat too: they support running the mainboard without the laptop!

"I dropped it on concrete, because I am very smart" had me dying. Nice review.

@leftfootdown

11 ай бұрын

i lol'd too

It was nice hearing your opinions on framework and seeing your detailed analysis. I just released a video yesterday on the upcoming framework 16 and this showed up in my recommended, glad I watched! Really excited with what framework is doing here!

@leftfootdown

11 ай бұрын

the framework 16 looks so cool and customizable!

Just set up the equilizers, reverb, loudness, virtualizer & and bass boost & it would sound great! 💯 ⌛✔️

This is the best hands-on review of Framework Laptop 13. And I have seen oh so many.

I'm only a few minutes in but I have to say that I really like your way of presenting the product. So much care for detail und Background info. I appreciate your work!

The two piece Aluminum Case is a frequently overlooked feature. So many laptops have used cheap plastic cases. Was that docking station that you recommended the "CalDigit TS3 Plus Thunderbolt 3 Dock" ?

I accidentally lost my long comment draft, but here's a summary of part of it: Your video helped provide me with lots of visual references for one with a UK layout keyboard for potential illustrations for a fan-fiction project of mine, as other videos I had seen were of ones with US layout keyboards and didn't go as in-depth as you did.

What I would suggest to Framework is to add more options in the dogles. Add RS-232 (Serial) , HDMI-IN (not out), VGA both in and out (yes its old but servers still use them) and USB-In. Those 4 are the stuff any Sys Admin or network enginner needs all the time. We are forced to use Crash cards, adapters and endless dongles (like RJ-45 serial to RS-232 cable connected to RS-232 to USB cable). Trust me if you work at a datacenter and you dont have those dongles - you are doomed. Good luck connecting to a switch or moden storage server without a serial cable. The others make the computer a portable KVM with simple capture programe. It allows you to work directly on a Server without transfering files and commands over USB and KVM. Those will make the Framework a go to machine for Sys admins and allow them target that audiance with their standard hardware. The DIY stuff on the Framework are great but their modular IO is the golden ticket that can allow customization based on requriment and expand the target audiance.

@camerongray1515

11 ай бұрын

That would definitely be very nice to have - I work a fair bit in data centers and other situations where a crash cart is required. I have an AliExpress "CCTV Tester" which also is great for testing network cables that has a VGA and HDMI input, it's been invaluable as a small battery operated monitor that I can fit in a bag. VGA capture on a laptop would be perfect. Suppose there's just a limitation as to a particular adapter needing to be sufficiently popular to make it financially viable to produce.

@mowtow90

11 ай бұрын

@@camerongray1515 Yes , you are correct. They have to make it economicaly viable but I think with the correct marketing it could work. + They have one of their investors "Linus from LTT" that brags about them all the time so thats free marketing. At the moment , the only laptop I've ever found with that capability is GPD Pocket 3. I hope there are others. It will be nice if something even more customizable hits the market.

@j.f.christ8421

11 ай бұрын

Those dongles exist because 99.999% of users don't need serial or VGA on a laptop, so it'll never happen. Might as well ask for parallel, or coax ethernet while you're at it. Hell, toss in XT keyboard so you can use your Model M.

@shemlesh

9 ай бұрын

nothing stopping you from manufacturing your own, the expansion card is an open format spec.

Thank you for very long review. I love these.

Thanks for the overview Cameron, I've got a Ryzen model on preorder for December and still feeling confident after watching this. I think your points at the end could go either way and I've had similar thoughts myself, only time will tell what that market for second hand boards will be like when it's time to finally upgrade to really see how "green" this laptop is in the real world. If this laptop goes more mainstream it'll definitely help as there will be people looking for a deal on a last gen board, but with mostly enthusiasts at the moment those boards could end up gathering dust like you say because nobody is going to want them

@AndersHass

11 ай бұрын

You can use the board by itself. Framework has partnered with Cooler Master to have a case for it so you dont have to make one yourself.

Excellent video, Cameron - really interesting to see all the internals both of the machine and the modules. Looks like they've really put a lot of thought into it. Did you get a fix for the audio issue?

You can use the motherboard by itself, they even partnered with coolermaster with a case so you dont have to make one yourself. They also plan on having a marketplace where people can sell old parts, so perhaps someone is interested in just the motherboard there. But it will be interesting if the design can stay the same or if they have to change it at some point (perhaps to fit more ports).

The most innovative thing is the format, their format is open-source, means every manufacturer can produce their own product, we could will see authentic parts from 3rd party soon, e.g. speakers, keyboard, monitors, camera, even GPU.

Looking forward to see the future of this modular laptop. My laptop is still working well, but I will definitely put it on my list when I need a new laptop.

I got my Framework 16 three days ago. I love it. It also has 6 slots for modules instead the the 4 on the FW13. I got 64 GB ram, and 2 drives, SSD. Also a 1 TB module. I got an assortment of modules to fit any suspected situation I might run into. The FW 16 replaced two HP x360s with 16 GB Ram, which I could not replace the RAM with a larger size, and both HPs have bad keyboards. On the FW 16 I can literally replace the keyboard in less than a minute. The HPs would be more expensive and much more iffy to replace the keyboard only. You could replace the entire HP shell with keyboard, but that would cost even more, and more downtime. The machine, FW 16, is a beast that you can put 96 GB RAM in, and when the chips are available later, 128 GB RAM.

Love the framework they are doing a good job. The none glued battery reminded me of something. Back in about 2016 or so the MacBook pro had a glued battery " to save space " same model year of macbook air had screwed in battery..... so they are talking out of there bottom!

Keep up the 'long and rambly'! Excellent review and overview. Regarding whether you would actually upgrade/replace the motherboard: If you could swap it out for better cpu and GPU, I could see gamers going for a system like this.

A very helpful video! ❤

Great video! Thank you. I am watching this after having my Framework for about 3 months and I found this to yet be insightful. I do have to disagree with you on the speakers as I prefer the speakers out of the Framework over my Pixel 7 or my HP EliteBook. So maybe it was a variation in the speakers from yours to mine or maybe my level of hearing loss at my age. I can't say for sure. I have swapped out ports an awful lot on my Framework, so I find that ability rather valuable but you could probably make as good of an argument on having dongles with an all USB-C machine in contrast. As far as the repairability aspect, that is the key feature for me. The fact that the mainboard can be repurposed is also a huge factor for me too as I can think of a variety of ways to use them which makes owning parts to this machine quite compelling. What will be interesting to see is how long this form factor will remain. I imagine with the 16" framework, they have learned a lot and would change things on the 13 if they could. Just a thought.

I’ve still got my 11th gen Intel Framework. It’s a daily driver connected to a pair of 3840x2560 displays and it plods along nicely. I’m waiting for the AMD version due later this year.

This is an excellent review Cameron, nicely put together and not _that_ rambly 🙂. What's the performance of the machine itself like? How does the Intel GPU fare? I quite fancy a Framework but I quite like the look of the upcoming 16.

I hope this kind of innovative engineering will continue and other companies will also follow this path. Then it won't be long till we get a perfect slim laptop with replaceable parts and a market full of upgradeable components like in the old days. I hope the framework will stick around for a long time and make a good impact on the market.

As a person who loves building desktop PCs, this is the only laptop I really want, lol. I do want the option to replace the motherboard instead of buying an entirely new laptop, since it's less than 70% the price. Sadly I already have a new Ryzen HP 255 G9 from december, but whenever I need a new one I will be getting an AMD Framework

such a promising start to this company. I've had laptops for years and many times I wish I could swap out components. when they allow gpu swapping I will probably get one.

@bbrainstormer2036

11 ай бұрын

The 16-inch will probably have something like that

@VladimirKostek

11 ай бұрын

@@bbrainstormer2036 They will have that, I released a video yesterday where I talk about it a bit

good review!!!

Modular ports are a fun idea but I wish they only kept 2 of them and fit the rest with normal array of ports. More space efficient while actually giving choice. Some will definitely find 4 ports limiting. Agree on the upgradability, it's a commitment check from Framework but not a feature I see myself using. I would rather buy the whole laptop but hey, still nice to see. + 1:12:40 t380 is no more. New thinkpads stopped giving 2 cents about repair and have soldiered ports nowadays which is an absolute crime. Framework also allows you to do component level repair which nobody does.

For the audio problem - are you sure you have the audio drivers installed? I am definitely not an expert on laptop audio or the framework laptops, I observe them with mild curiosity. I just remember seeing a video recently, don't remember from whom, where the audio drivers made a huge difference to fidelity due to the way they abused some physical properties of audio waves in the air. I think it was for how audio worked on linux vs windows......that wasn't you was it? :) Edit: This was it. kzread.info/dash/bejne/qq5lk6Saqqayh5c.html

@anita.b

11 ай бұрын

It's just terrible speakers with no balancing or engineering behind them, like 90% of the Framework laptop lmao.

I like how the screen is a little tall, reminds me of the old IBMs, the orange bezels is also a great touch.

I do wonder if one of the speakers is wired the wrong way around and is out of phase 🤔

@maxtornogood

11 ай бұрын

I am curious as I find the speakers to be perfectly fine & I have the original speakers, not the 80db ones.

This looks amazing and they are definitely doing the right thing, but as with all modern laptops the keyboard layout is horrendous, no dedicated volume, page up/down, home or end keys, all on function keys. IBM got this right 20 years ago and I can't believe more power users don't have a problem with it. Also no trackpoint but that's more personal preference. If I could put a T60 keyboard on one of these I would buy it in a heartbeat!

@baz4k

10 ай бұрын

The 16 inch model is coming out soon with an extended keyboard option.

1:00:12 you were saying that their proprietary connector and I understand what you mean by that but they are fully open-source all of the dimensions and all other necessary information including a bunch of CAD models are available if you want to make your own modules for example if you have a 3D printer

I've traveled multiple times with that Ethernet card in that exact position - facing up, inside a sleeve that was then placed inside a backpack. The thing is rock solid. The only problem I've ever had is the fact that the alloy itself that's used for the frame is a bit soft. The flip side of that? I dinged the corner of my frame...and just beat it back into shape with a hammer and rag, just like you would with old school metalworking. LOL.

Ewwwww who would want an ISO keyboard in their ALUMINUM Great in depth review. I would never touch a mac, other than to toss it out of a window. I've always liked ThinkPads as I've always felt their business lines are some of the most repairable and serviceable laptops, but I think if I were to ever get a new laptop I would probably get a Framework just to support the idea. The 16 inch they're about to release with the reconfigurable keyboard area and more ports looks really interesting to me, even though I typically prefer 13/14" laptops.

@camerongray1515

7 ай бұрын

People like myself who live in counties where ISO keyboards are the norm and find ANSI layouts awkward to switch to. If every other machine I'm likely to encounter has an ISO layout, I'm going to want the same on my own machines to save having to get used to switching between them.

I love the concept of this laptop, a few things put me off though, the ethernet sticking out, the speakers being poor and strangely they have a microSD but no SD module. I know microSD is much more common but many cameras (like mine!) still use SD cards.

@camerongray1515

11 ай бұрын

Yeah, I can deal with the Ethernet sticking out but a thinner adapter with a flip open connector would be ideal. Definitely agree on the microSD card, seems like a strange decision - all regular cameras use full size SD, most smartphones are getting rid of microSD card slots and microSD is easy to adapt to a regular SD card reader - if you want a microSD card reader, just keep a microSD to SD card adapter permanently in the slot!

@Chemical_Alchemist

11 ай бұрын

Raspberry Pi's and many tech gadgets use MicroSD cards and I think the target demographic is closer to tech tinkerers rather than photographers. I would like a full sized SD port just to have it, but at least you can just put a MicroSD card in a full sized SD card adapter that can stay in the camera/other device.

@horstderheld22

11 ай бұрын

​@@camerongray1515 Well, you could also argue, just keep the adapter in your cam. The framework extension cards are about the same size as an SD card, so it would be quite difficult to fit them flush. That said, with framework becoming more popular, more 3rd party hardware will come out.

Did you happen to get the storage expansion card, either the 250gb or the 1tb one? and if so did you tear it down as well? if not would you be willing to do that on a video?

@18:10 you mentioned that it'd be nice to have a second M.2 slot for an SSD. Not sure if this is only on the Ryzen one but mine has a 2280 and a 2230 slot for M.2 drives, so that's good news. Sorry if you mentioned this in the video, I have it on in the background while I work so tuning in and out as I go! :-)

@frankwong9486

Ай бұрын

Maybe the one you got is a framework 16 ? That have a 2230 hiding under the 2280 slot

In a way, I sort of agree with you on the motherboard swapping part. I actually run servers, so the idea of being able to pop the motherboard out and run it as a server is tempting, and might actually be applicable to me if I were younger. However, just recently, I went the opposite way, and decided to replace all my old desktop machines running as servers with real rackmount servers mostly just for fun. Assuming I'm not going to "reuse" the older motherboard in somewhere or some project, like you said, it doesn't make sense. I'd probably rather get a new, less worn down system if it has really been a few generations - and most likely, if I kept the laptop intact I could sell it for the difference making up what I could save by just replacing the mobo. For people who have a use or want to "play" with the old mobos, I can see it being cool, but that's probably a very small percent. As for your mentioning of ThinkPad parts, your problem here is that you're getting the spares through Lenovo. All of these PC manufacturers (Lenovo, Dell, HP), excluding Apple who constantly try to screw over the consumer in any way possible, do not manufacture the screens, they put existing screens that can be bought anywhere in their products. If you order the spares through them, expect to pay a 2-3x markup for the part. Most likely you can eBay a new screen for MOST ThinkPads for like $100 - and replacement keyboards for most ThinkPads for like $50. ThinkPads have a HUGE parts market on places like eBay and Ali. Assuming you didn't go for the 4k OLED screen option which has an actual cost of $$$$$, you can get the replacement parts for any of these laptops just as cheap if you know where to look. If you did go for the ultra unique +$600 screen option, well, obviously the part has a high real cost.

@camerongray1515

7 ай бұрын

Yeah, that's my thought on the whole "turn your old motherboard into a desktop/server sort of thing" - it's very niche, some tinkerers may want it but for me, I'd rather either buy a proper server, or a complete desktop machine such as a NUC, Raspberry Pi or second hand ex-business PC for a much more usable form factor. As for the ThinkPad parts - in my case it was the glass touchscreen digitiser that was broken, the LCD itself was fine. At the time it was a relatively new model of machine so there wasn't really any options for aftermarket/second hand parts. Normally if I was looking for replacement parts, my first port of call would be looking for second hand parts before going directly to the manufacturer. That said, the ability to buy known good, official parts from framework is ideal since realistically, LCD panels are one of the very few parts that have generic versions, almost everything else is going to be proprietary.

*I think there is audio driver issue try changing drivers or there maybe issue with ur laptop's speakers. U can try changing them.*

what i would do is first, if i upgrade the board, ill definitely turn the old one into a media server or router or pihole, or all at the same time. if they come out with a better screen, ill put the old one in a case with some HDMI board and keep using it. if the shell gets damaged, you can get new parts, and by time there will be upgraded parts, or more color options available which you can switch out. with a new laptop for each upgrade, you have to shell out the whole priice at once (or pay monthly...with this you can pay monthly for upgrades and not involve financing) AND if you dont want to bother with turning the old board into a server, you can sell ONLY the board too

i have the amd fw13 and the speakers are great. not sure if there is a different model or calibration, but i definitely wouldn't worry about the speakers if you are looking to grab an amd version.

I really want one of these as a netbook but the speakers are a deal breaker for me. If they improve the speakers i'll buy one.

Thank You. I have a boring Dell laptop, because replacement parts for everything are available (not always officially, but available enough). So Framework will be my next one.

The speaker issue is way too high of a resonant frequency, not only severely reducing lower mids, but causing un-natural peaks, and going by this track there's a big one at 770Hz but still one at 385Hz as well, which is awful. You could install a system-wide EQ like Equaliser APO and apply cuts in that region, cutting by more as the frequency goes up.

@RWL2012

11 ай бұрын

Update 18/6/23 - In Hugh Jeffreys' video he tore down the Framework and said there are 2 different types of speakers - "more accurate sounding" ones and louder 80dB ones.

Lovely environmental-friendly laptop computer! Thanks for showing us around, even if you speak a lot and I'm not 100% familiar with your native accent. I understood that "eh" means "it" ;-) If this machine could run an older but recent macOS, I'd love it... and only listen to sound from a pair of portable bluetooth speakers. But I may be interested in testing out Linux Ubuntu OS as well. I really dislike how Apple and many other computer companies made their machines inaccessible, not upgradable and almost unrepairable for the common user. I miss the days when at least memory, RAM and batteries could be easily replaced in the 2000's and earlier. In a time of rising climate concerns, limited natural resources and the collective need for global sustainability, these greedy companies programming the obsolescence of their products are really despicable in my eyes. The Framework laptop company is a great initiative! If more people buy their products, they will have more financial latitude to improve them. Let's support them, share information about them and buy their machines! You started, well done!! :-)

I'm just happy if I can replace the screen or the keyboard, or any part that usually breaks. On my previous notebook the keyboard was held by hundred rivets and now the current one has a glued in frame around the lcd. The battery also used to be a pack of 18650s, in a removable module, now there is only pouch style. This framework laptop is basically a good old laptop. It makes me so angry when it is presented as something new. When everyone should have just stopped copying macbooks.

@BigTylt

11 ай бұрын

Best part is that if we get a 3000x2000 screen or a 90hz panel upgrade down the road, we won't need to rip glue off of the display or pry off plastic, it will go in and be ready to use in about 10 minutes.

Didn’t touch on the only things I’m really concerned about, being battery life, heat, and fan noise.

@StefanHolmes

11 ай бұрын

Battery life isn’t great, but also isn’t awful. Heat… it’s a low power CPU part. Noise… It gets annoying when you ask it to play Minecraft.

You should try taking the whole motherboard out. Its honestly fun

56:04 you call the replaceable ports "a bit of a novelty", but i assure you, after a few really bad cable trip incidents, when the USB-C port that you need for charging turns wiggly and unreliable, you'll realize how valuable that is. both my T480s charging ports are flaky now and if i want to fix them, my only option would be a very risky SMT rework on the motherboard. (of course, internal daughtercards would've fit this need just as well for less cost, but the nifty modules are a fun gimmick)

@britneyfreek

7 ай бұрын

magsafe. that’s the only solution to the problem.

i wonder if you could replace the speakers

How's the battery doing on 13th gen?

The Framework laptop isn't certified for ThunderBolt, but it's supported USB 4 (not advertised) with is 99% the same thing

11 ай бұрын

backwards compatible with thunderbolt too.

@JessicaFEREM

11 ай бұрын

@ not completely but yea mostly

@kbhasi

11 ай бұрын

It is, but only the Intel x86-based mainboards, not AMD. The original 2020 model had Thunderbolt too, but it wasn't certified. 2022 or 2023 Intel-based model was the first to be Thunderbolt certified.

I could listen to your accent all day, much better than our English accents... Also the HDMI adapters are using display alt and no support for sound over HDMI, didn't hear you mention any sound controllers, which is different... Also what's the heat like? My 2019 MacBook Pro gets uncomfortably hot, and you worry with unknown machines weather they have the R&D to minimise heat

the battery comes out so easy im tempted to buy a spare right at the beginning

Wow, those speakers sound terrible. The laptop 16 has a Linux compatibility setting in the BIOS. Do you have an option in your BIOS for audio driver compatibility? This is one of my concerns. I steam boot Linux and Windows, I don't want to change a BIOS setting every time I boot into a different OS. I was hoping the quality wouldn't be that bad if I leave it on Linux compatibility so the time and deal with it in Windows. That audio is pretty bad, I might have to ban the use of internal speaker on Windows unless I change the BIOS.

Just wonder would it be able to charge up over the Ethernet adapter module.

@StefanHolmes

11 ай бұрын

It won’t. Adding PoE circuitry would require too much space and need to dissipate too much heat. It’s already a large expansion card. It would need to be PoE++ to provide 60W, which would further limit its utility.

Sadly I'm not surprised this many years after it first came out and it's still mostly a fashion accessory. The flimsy monitor bezel is a joke, even if it's only ever used on a desk without being carried around. Only 4 I/O slots is a push, but when one of them is the power input it's ridiculous. Single-board computers have more I/O versatility than that. Yeah it's a nice feature that the I/O can be hotswapped, I can definitely see a use-case for that - but only until I remember that realistically there are only 3 slots. And the keyboard and trackpad basically competing against low-tier laptops is insulting when you consider the market they claim to target. The idea is nice but it seems like they went too far on the serviceability and swappability of some aspects, while neglected it in others. On the one hand having to open the laptop to replace a battery (which has been one of the biggest complaints from consumers since before the first version of this laptop was even announced), but on the other hand the screen bezel is easier to undo than blister packaging and one can replace a USB-C port to a USB-A port on a whim. I don't know the design constraints that went into this, but this appears as if they had very weird priorities.

The speakers could benefit from an EQ adjustment.

Waiting for the first post was tense

Does the Framework Laptop 16 also appeal to you? I think the split hinges make it look quite dated.

@camerongray1515

11 ай бұрын

It looks like an interesting machine although it's not something I'd really buy myself. Not because there's anything wrong with it - it's just that I use a MacBook as my main machine so for me a Framework laptop will always be a secondary machine so I don't need that sort of power or size.

@jamescollins6085

11 ай бұрын

@@camerongray1515 I see. I have been finding it more and more difficult to resist the temptation to get one of the ARM MacBooks. My only concern would be MacOS and how it can stand in the way of the user a lot of the time when trying to do anything that strays into power user territory. A friend of mine has gone through three MacBook Pros so far since the introduction of the M1, two of which failed due to a bad display cable, so I'm wondering if Apple have either a QC problem or a design problem?

@camerongray1515

11 ай бұрын

Ultimately it really comes down to personal preference - I wouldn't say Mac OS is any more restrictive to power users than Windows, it's a UNIX OS and you have full root access. The only issue is maybe that you can't customise the look and feel as much as you may be able to with Windows but other than that it's extremely powerful - in fact, many software engineers.etc prefer Mac OS since it has a native UNIX shell. Apple Silicon is also pretty impressive - I can render a 4K video on my MBP and the fan won't even turn on whereas most Intel laptops will spin the fan up at even a slightly complex web page. As for the build quality - it's definitely a concern, Apple have definitely had a few issues in the past (butterfly keyboard.etc) and the lack of repairability sucks. However, the other thing to bear in mind is how popular they are and how few different models they offer - if a particular model of MacBook has a design flaw, it will affect a large amount of people who will be very vocal about it. If a specific model of PC laptop has a similar issue, it'll affect far fewer people so you won't hear as much about it. That's not to excuse any issues with Macs, but in my opinion, build quality/reliability is basically on-par with most other mid-high end PC laptops.

the black covers on the RAM modules might be heat conductive...

it's kind of a painful spot for them to be in I suppose because there's no way you can reasonably manufacture and support something like this at a more affordable level, but for all its interesting nuances it just seems to fail on the most important metric: the price/performance ratio.

Do you notice much fan noise?

Actually a decent number of things you were surprised about seem to have changed lately. I got myself a 12th Gen Framework about half a year ago. And, as far as I remember, it came with the bezel and input already assembled. And, what I can say with absolute certainty, the BIOS/UEFI has the old UI style you were expecting (blue background etc). Does have all the settings I require, even accepts Secureboot platformkeys, which is required for Secureboot on most except the mainstream Distros. Interesting (and nice) how they seem to continually improve their Hardware and approach. As you say, the separate packaging of the bezel and input probably eases logistics (thus reducing costs) and the newer UEFI UI Look will likely help people feel less intimidated, so I'd take it as a win. Oh, and btw, I do strongly remember a disclaimer in some documentation about the slow first boot, so you probably missed that indeed. Not sure where that was, perhaps the online guide if you didn't follow it?

@9SMTM6

11 ай бұрын

Also, at least the 11th and 12th Gen are officially Thunderbolt certified. Don't remember if it was TB3 or 4, and they recieved it after release.

IS the AMD version good for gaming?

Give me a laminated OLED/high refresh rate display, a bigger and force touch trackpad, a set of powerful speakers and a more fine-grained CPU power profiles and I'll go for it. Everything else looks good for me. Oh, also! Space grey option!

48:28 "3, not great, but not terrible" little did you know, the color meter maxes out at 3 roentgen

the new one coming out is going to be really good

I remember old laptops replacing the battery used to be even easier. You slide open the lock on the outside of the case and pull the battery pack out. Don't even need any screwdrivers.Don't need to open the case. I doubt we'll see that level of convenience again, though. Too bulky.

@albertmagician8613

8 ай бұрын

I think this isnormal. Then i realize my laptop is a Toshiba from 2000. That qualifies as old.

Everything is good until you look at the price. They sell their laptops at a fairly insane premium for the specification you get. There is a lot of hype and everyone and their mom is a fan but I don't think many people are actually buying framework laptops.

I personally prefer a 16x9 display then 3x2 but I think if I where to get this laptop brand I think I would get used to it I would also get that 16 inch one they recently announced

what abour graphic card?

my current laptop I would argue is worse than those latitudes. my laptop will corrupt it's own graphics driver under windows, and under linux some things cause the entire machine to lock up under wayland. so using xorg (as much as I hate it) is the best option at the moment

@akashp01

9 ай бұрын

why do you hate xorg? Wayland is bad no matter what laptop you use lmao.

@thialfi2289

8 ай бұрын

@@akashp01 I use wayland on all of my devices and have no problems with it. I get that it's not perfect on every device and for every use case but saying it's bad no matter what laptop you use is just blatantly false.

you could sell the motherboard online its just a standalone pc you can even buy the coolermaster case

@camerongray1515

11 ай бұрын

That's true, although my logic was that the market for a complete laptop is larger than for a relatively niche mini PC which would be competing against more well known SFF desktops.

Did you ordered the louther speakers, and not the normal ones? Because I've got the normal ones, and I don't have any complain... Maybe they are not the best on the market, but... I don't feel they are soo bad... Also, you can contact framework maybe... To me the only point to complain is the microfone, at least in linux, it's not good... :( For the rest, I'm supper happy with it)

@camerongray1515

11 ай бұрын

Interestingly it seems as though my machine came with the newer 80dB ones, didn't notice at first but on reviewing the video, they have 80dB printed on them. I suppose replacing them with the "original" ones could help a bit as they apparently do sound clearer however I found a comparison video on KZread and it doesn't seem like a huge difference in quality. Maybe a big enough difference to warrant the £19 for replacement speakers but not the £26 shipping on top. May throw them in the order if I'm buying something else from Framework in the future. I suppose I'm probably just used to MacBook speakers and I'm just expecting too much since the MacBook speakers are up-firing and have a separate subwoofer.

@LeeOades

8 ай бұрын

Ah. You've answered my question - I was thinking "I'm sure they've released supposedly better sounding speakers". Shame that it seems like you have those and they aren't very good.

if the speakers were good then how would they get you to buy the more expensive upgraded ones? same for the vibrating hinges...there's an upgrade for the hinges too......heaven forbid they would just make the speakers and hinges good enough in the first place given its hefty price tag.

@camerongray1515

8 ай бұрын

The newer laptops (including mine) already include the "improved" speakers and hinges, these are parts that they have improved over time and they sell them separately so that people with older laptops with the earlier generations of speakers and hinges can upgrade theirs.

Would I want to upgrade the motherboard? Absolutely! In fact, I have had my framework 11th gen Intel i5 for a number of years now, and if I were to upgrade from an 11th gen i5 to a 13th gen i7, it would be something like a 60% performance upgrade. Upgrading to the AMD Ryzen 7040 would more than *double* my performance while also saving me battery life. All at just the cost of a motherboard. My case and keyboard are both perfectly fine, more importantly, the expensive Screen, SSD, and RAM are also fine. (Although I would need to change the RAM if switching to the AMD). A fully decked out Macbook Costs around $5k, and then if you want to have a faster machine in 2 years.. another $5k, since you can't bring *anything* from the old laptop. With framework, you are talking about bringing most everything, so upgrading will cost you less than half as much as the total cost of the computer in general. Does everyone want to change their motherboard every year? Probably not. I don't buy a new phone every year either - but I sure don't want to pay for another 4TB SSD and 64GB of RAM when I buy a new computer if I could use the old ones. About the old motherboard: a. You can sell it b. You can use it as a desktop since they sell cases now. I will probably upgrade my framework in the next 12 months, and when I do, the old motherboard is going to become a server for sure. I think the ability to upgrade the motherboard is what makes the Framework different from some of the manufacturers like HP or Lenovo that are a little better about parts. Not only can you fix it, but you can upgrade it multiple generations. I thought "this video must be quite old, because if he has this for a while, he would think differently" - but was surprised to see it's only 4 months old. The fact that you don't have to drop all the money at once, and can slowly upgrade RAM or SSD as needed over the years is just a nice touch. I will agree that the USB modules aren't necessarily a game changer at this point in time for the average person.

@camerongray1515

7 ай бұрын

For some people who want to upgrade regularly then it may make sense, and having used the machine for some time, I really like it. However I still feel as though the ability to upgrade the motherboard isn't necessarily the biggest deal. Using your MacBook example - I bought my MacBook around 2 years ago for £3050, if I wanted to upgrade to a new machine, I could easily sell my old one for in excess of £2200 meaning I'd only have "spent" £850 for the time I used the machine (around the cost of a high end framework motherboard and possibly new RAM) but with this I'd also get a brand new machine with a new battery.etc and I'd have the flexibility to change things up and go for a completely different type of machine. I'd also easily be able to sell the old machine Vs a Framework motherboard which is a very niche product with a small market of people who'd want to buy it. While using it as a desktop is also an option, I simply have no need for such a machine, and I imagine the average person would be in the same boat. I tend to not look at tech upgrades based on the price of the new hardware, instead I tend to look at them in terms of the net cost based on the cost of purchasing the new hardware and selling any old hardware that it replaces. I suppose it also comes down to the person - for my use cases, I'm unlikely to need to upgrade a machine for more CPU power within the first few years of buying it. It'll be more than powerful enough for a very long time, I'm more likely to want to upgrade because I fancy a change, want a different style/form factor or because the machine is getting scruffy/tired. So I suppose this is probably why the idea of upgrading the motherboard has never really excited me. I'd also be interested to see how long they'll keep up the compatibility with newer motherboards in existing cases since at some point they'll surely want to redesign the chassis which may end up breaking compatibility. Now of course, I really hope I'm wrong with this and they'll continue to release updated motherboards for older machines for years to come and a market for second hand framework parts will flourish. However I didn't want to focus too much on that in this review like many others have done and get people's hopes up that they'd never need to buy a complete new laptop ever again.

The clean minimalist design goes along with the Apple trend. For what this laptop tries to achieve is better to embrace the practical industrial design of the IBM Thinkpads.

I thought the modules were open source and you could print your own?

@camerongray1515

11 ай бұрын

Yeah, they're just standard USB-C devices so if you have the means to make one, it can easily be done.

If they go with TB 4/USB4/TB 5 they can connect to PCIe

This thing seems to have a lot of small annoyances that add up to a "don't buy it" verdict, for me, at least. The speakers are unreasonably bad, and battery life is still not where it should be. The random fit and finish issues (eg: trackpad) also hurt it.

@britneyfreek

7 ай бұрын

the battery life will never be where it should be due to software.

First post ALWAYS takes forever. The system does memory overclock during the test.

Im 💯 behind this company and idea but 935 GBP is like 1565.50 Canadian ...that's pretty dam steep for A) having to Lego assemble it myself (and as you stated that was minus the storage and ram) and B) doesn't even have a dedicated GPU😮..... I can think of 1000 different avenues and ways one could get a decent Work or a Gaming laptop at the same price point or lower and it having a dedicated GPU

@StefanHolmes

11 ай бұрын

That’s all true. You’re not the target audience for this kind of laptop.

Framework sells cases to transform your old motherboard into a desktop PC. So you don't need it to keep in a drawer, you can stick it on the back of a screen and use it.

@camerongray1515

11 ай бұрын

That's true, it's a nice idea although not something I'd necessarily have a use for myself so if it were me I'd probably still end up with the motherboard sitting around - I just don't have a need for many desktop PCs these days.

How would you rate the fan noise on this laptop? Is it off during light tasks (browsing)? How loud is it under load?

@camerongray1515

11 ай бұрын

Fan is off during light web browsing, when it fully kicks in it's relatively audible but not too annoying. I've noticed it a bit but bear in mind I'm coming from Apple Silicon where the fans barely run, it's fairly on-par with other PC laptops I've used.

You can get a case to use old motherboards as a desktop. So yes it's better for the environment anyway?

@camerongray1515

9 ай бұрын

That's true, however that assumes the user has a use for another desktop, personally it's not the sort of thing I'd really have a use for. If they don't have a use for it, then sure they could sell it, however I can't see why someone looking for a desktop would buy a Framework motherboard and case over a much more polished Mini PC or other USFF desktop. By contrast, even a relatively old complete laptop can relatively easily be sold on through eBay to someone with relatively low requirements or donated to various charities. I went through a period of upgrading my laptop almost yearly - every "old" laptop I had was sold on through eBay and found a new owner. By comparison, if I had done the same with Framework laptops I'd either have ended up with several old motherboards or mini desktop PCs.

Nice laptop.. But I would need the 16" version.

I really want to get one of these laptops but I need good speakers, minimum 4 prefably 6.

@petem.3719

11 ай бұрын

No laptop has speakers that are worth af, let alone 4 or 6 of them. You need a laptop with a great audio card and just use external speakers. Even the smallest good external speakers sound better than even the best built-in speakers.

@mattfm101

11 ай бұрын

@@petem.3719 I had a dell xps 15 inch 2022 for a bit and the speakers on them were great, I think it had 4 and yes there are laptops with 6 speakers.

Jeeze... Why is it that everyone wanted the 80dB speaker kit? These are horrific and lack the entire range in comparison to the original even if they are louder....

Imagine having nearly 40k views but only 999 likes people need to like videos they find helpful

If Apple would have made those USB-C adapters, they would have been $119 each and only works on Macs 😅

Thunderbolt 4 certified 👌

Would be a good idea if it is a 10/100/1000 mbps

Does this have a gpu ?

@camerongray1515

8 ай бұрын

Not on the 13" - it just has the Intel iGPU. The 16" is available with a swappable GPU module.