After watching your previous video on the Daly BMS, I now know why my LiFeO4 battery pack of 280 AH do not balance. They were in perfect balance when I started with the Daly. They were getting more and more out of balance with each cycle. Now I know why. 20ma is not enough to balance a charge current of 10 to 20 amps from my solar panels. I bought another Overkill Solar 4S BMS. It looks like a lot of other 4S BMS's. It has only been installed 1 day and already the cells are nearly perfectly balanced. Thanks for a great video. This one said that replacing the Daly BMS was the right decision.

I purchased my Daly bms 250amp no bluetooth and no way to test, before seeing your video. I was disappointed to see your review and regretted my decision. Waited for my 32 280ah cells to arrive from China and created 4 banks of 8 cells at 12v, 2 series parallel configuration. My cells were not balanced and trying to top ballance 32 cells on a 10amp power supply after 3 weeks gave up and just created my packs. Balance was way off and the first charge the bms was shutting off after 1 cell reached peak voltage. I was concerned the Daly would not be able to properly balance 560ah cell. After several short cycles (Not Deep) and 3-4 days my cells balanced and are performing great. My 4 packs are all showing within .01 volt of each other and I'm confident in a few more days and cycles they will be the same and perfectly balanced. I believe the Daly is up to the task. Please keep the videos coming, you and Will are the reasons i decided to build my own packs.

I found a trick on the web to make your clamp on meter more sensitive. Make a loop of 10 turns on the balance leeds. This make the clamp on meter read down to 1ma. You just need to remember that the decimal point is in the wrong spot.

I have come to the fact your videos are great!! So I give them a 👍 before I watch it, then enjoy the video.

Thanks for the follow up with that one Andy

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

No problem.

102721/1959h PST 🇺🇸 1028/1259h Brisbane 🇦🇺 Guten Morgan und Danke schone, Herr Andy. Well conducted und tedious test on Daly BMS. The feeling is mutual about the device. During the initial stages of my introduction to PV Systems, I used Daly BMS. I weaned out of the red paper weight, into JBD BMS and never looked back. By the way, QUCC BMS with relay is made by JBD. Have a nice, rest of the day und 73s…

Trying to balance is like chasing a spirit level bubble out of a water system!! Happy-daysLol.

Good idea Andy! With this method, you can also measure any active balancer/equalizer on the market!! Next time, please test the 5A active balancer (with capacitors)

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

Great suggestion!

@mr.crision

2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia yes please and tell us when is best to turn them on... low high or even during charging, what works best?

@juanandy7635

2 жыл бұрын

@Off-Grid Garage..this one would be exciting to watch..as i have the same set-up coupled with a 5A active balancer..i wanna know how daly would react with this configuration..

@charleserickson7503

2 жыл бұрын

Hi Andy I am Charles . You say Daly BMS s are cheap crap here in RSA they most comonly in use and are very expensive the LBSA Daly 100a 15s /16s 48v LifePO4 smart BMS with optional Display or Blue tooth R2 614,95 By the way Digital Mermaid has the best busbars on her battery. Keep on testing have a nice day.

As i commented on the previous video, you probably have to take into account the burden voltage drop that the meter's shunt produces while put in series with the battery lead to measure current. Every time you connect the ammeter to a lead, the cell voltage that coincides to that lead appears higher, skewing your results!

Great work Andy thank you for your contributions! Honestly that is the last thing that I wanted to hear about my daily BMS. Yes technically it works but it's not quite what I was thinking or expecting to get for the price. Come on Daly really push out some firmware fix it!

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

A 'fix' should only be a software update away...

Thanks for digging deeper an checking Andy. Your test confirms what Daly dealer in the U.S. conveyed and why he sells active balancers with Daly BMSs. Also Andy, did you happen to check to see if the Daly stops balancing after the pack reaches full charge voltage if a float voltage just below or over the over-voltage BMS protection voltage? A cheap daly 16S BMS (1-10219960-j16E) appeared to balance as long as the 48V charger was connecting and floating at 54.5V. If that's the case with your smart Daly BMS, and it were in a system with a charge controller that kept applying a float voltage and/or had long daily charging cycles, perhaps the Daly slow balancing scheme might be able to keep up?

The balancer artificially increases the impedance in the cell with the highest voltage. As a result proportionally more charge current goes to the lower voltage cells. This is how you can balance large capacity cells with seemingly ‘small rates’ and it only works when charging. An efficient and elegant solution…….

Thanks Andy, that was a great video on the Daly, might have to look at other brands other the Daly for future BMS, I have only had one die and that was a TOPBMS, another thought about amp meters, a set of + - analogue amp meters would be a great to watch the flow of current, thumbs up Andy

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Ross!

Well done Andy, it would be nice to see how a cheap Heltec active balancer is working in this configuration.

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

Coming up next! 😊

@farmerjhemp

2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Doesn't need a heltec!!!!!!!!!!! Do a real 🌎 test. Hook up panels and large top balanced cells. It'll work! Start balancing at 3.2v. another subscriber just said he built a hundred batteries with the dallies with no problems. If it's screws up your cells I'll replace them. Why are you pussy footing around this BMS.

Maaaate, the way you said Oztwalia reminded me of Elmer Fudd 🤣

It's crazy programming. From memory when I took my burnt out Daly apart they use optoisolators with FETs and resistors on each cell. No need to only have 1 cell balancing. I like the convenience of have SOC and Bluetooth and easy connections but I don't think it is fit for off-grid house use where we only get fully charged for maybe 1 hour every few days in winter.

Your quest for the truth is inspiring!

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

Haha, thank you.

Great video and info as usual tho! 👍👍

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

Appreciate it!

Well done Andy gr8 vid as always !! I agree with Ingo "it would be nice to see how a cheap Heltec active balancer works in this configuration."

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, coming up next here on the channel...

@craigjameslister290

2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Aaaah ppl power; loveit. Thanks Andy :-)

Nice work Andy, your early morning videos are what provide my first laughs for the day! It's pretty easy to miss the negative symbols when we're concentrating on plenty of other things and deep in though/frustration. But using 4 meters shows some quick thinking and provided the results as expected. At least we know what the reality is now, and have confirmed it too. Contrary to what some comments suggest, I do actually do real testing, but they only see a snippet of my story here, so I'll allow them that silly assumption. I've never delved into the balance method much, because I haven't needed to. As we all know, when you start with good cells, and they are properly top balanced, it doesn't take much to keep them in balance. And my experience to date (almost 100 battery builds with the Daly BMS) has shown me that this works in practice. But if I were to start with unbalanced cells, or there was a problem cell, it wouldn't keep up, and would quickly show an issue. In my opinion, this is actually a good thing, because disguising a dodgy cell could mean it's not noticed during my own pre-sale testing, and then it would likely fail in a customers vehicle when they need it most. Daly have some annoying things, as does just about every BMS in different ways. I don't like the current measurement accuracy, it's a noisy sensor and they (partly) compensate by ignoring low currents, this can cause some odd SOC reading issues long term. The balance current is very low (as seen here), and while it's normally enough, I do think 200mA would be more appropriate. They also make hardware/firmware/software changes without any notice or documentation, and that just causes masses of trouble trying to adapt on the fly. So I keep an eye out for other options, but 250A BMS options are very limited, and I don't want to drop down to 200A because then it doesn't satisfy my 3000w inverter requirement. But with all this, it provides people with information so they can make an educated decision about what BMS is going to be the best option for them. Sure we can all just purchase and install whatever, and it'll probably work, but if we delve deeper into the workings, we have the opportunity to get longer life, more capacity, and less problems out of our battery setups. So everyone should carefully assess their own personal needs. :)

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

I wonder if the Daly will still work OK once the cells get older and start drifting more though.

@farmerjhemp

2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Andy why don't you hook up 4 280ah cells and BMS to panels and run them for a week or month and report back? If the Daly works in a diy solar set up why aren't you testing it for what it's designed for?

@extremeacc101

2 жыл бұрын

@@farmerjhemp As far as the voltage drift goes I can confirm they are lasting the distance I have both older CALB cells and they are holding Balance quite well. I built both of those batteries in 2015 using the older 100a Daly bms. They were being used on a daily basis just up until recently. Charging between 50 and 80 A in a work vehicle. Then discharged daily using a coffee machine running fridges and charging various power tools. I ran both of these batteries in parallel so that is two DAly BMSs. These cells are still testing between 90 and 100% capacity. I believe Paul is right using new quality a grade cells that are closely matched/balanced will make all of the difference. A different outcome would happen over time I believe using used cells in the same configuration.

@jameslauina9922

2 жыл бұрын

You really need a calm down. Do you really believe your better then everyone else or something? All its doing is shown every that you always have to be right even when your wrong.

@PowerPaulAu

2 жыл бұрын

@@jameslauina9922 oh good, a random nobody coming on here and spewing hate... well done. Back in your hole little troll and DBAD. And FYI, Andy is basically confirming what I originally said.

Very well done. I'd also like to add that on Daly's larger ampacity BMS (200A in my case) the current measurement device integrated in the BMS is very inaccurate and will indicate zero amps when I am charging at anything less than 2A. This causes it to exit balance mode, and the low charging amperage will continue to charge and over-charge higher SoC cells until high cell voltage cutoff is reached and the BMS opens the charge MOS. This device is rubbish and the support is terrible.

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

The BMS basic function seem to work but the balancer is terrible and totally useless. I tried many other BMS and they all do a far better job with that.

Thanks Andy… Great stuff. BTW What would you recommend instead of a Daly??? I need something to handle 250A for my caravan. I’ve made do till now with no BMS, just a balancer and Victron BMV 700. (Or should I go with the Daly and keep my existing balancer, which keeps it well balanced.)

Hi Andy, To do the test properly you need 5 ammeters, one for each BMS lead! The total amperage should then remain the power for the BMS.

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

Well the negative balance cable will show -17mA or -47mA if cell #1 is balancing.

Since you asked for special requests on that setup: I would suggest showing what happens when you set the balance current too low on the Daly. I've seen comments saying you should set it as low as 3.0v. Try this setup: Set the Daly to start balancing at 3.2v. Then discharge the pack down until all cells are below 3.2v. Then turn on the charger to a very small charge current, say 500ma. What will happen is that the Daly will now perform balancing at the bottom and middle of the pack, instead of only balancing at the top. The same problem you had with your active balancer will now occur: Since it's balancing towards the bottom and middle the Daly will actually cause imbalance because the cells that have the highest voltage when the pack is fully charged are often at the lowest voltage when the pack is mostly depleted (The weakest cell will be the first cell to hit max voltage, and the first cell to hit the lowest voltage). So the BMS will be pulling current from the stronger cells at the bottom and then it'll have to work even harder to undo that imbalance by balancing those weaker cells at the top.

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Jeremy. If I set the charge current to 500mA only, the balancer will never kick in. The charge current needs to show on the app and must be >1A roughly for that to occur. Smaller charge currents wont show and won't trigger the balancer.

@JeremyAkersInAustin

2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia 1-2 amps works as well. Whatever is enough to trigger the balancer.

I want to use an active balancer with daly bms on my 4s 280Ah battery bank. The balancer is like the one in an old video that you have( with capacitors ). What do you think about my sugestion?

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

That's a great combo if you can let the balancer run only on higher voltages (3.45V upwards).

Because of theses test, I just purchase a JK BMS, cant wait to swap out my Daly

About the Victron 100/30 SCC: Victron have updated their user manual for these controllers: Use flexible multi-stranded copper cable for the battery and PV connections. • The diameter of the individual strand of the cable used should not exceed 0.4mm (0.016 inch) or have a surface area exceeding 0.125mm2 (AWG26). • The maximum operating temperature is 90°C (194°F). • • A 25mm2 cable, for example, should have at least 196 strands (class 5 or higher stranding according to VDE 0295, IEC 60228 and BS6360). An AWG2 gauge cable should have at least 259/26 stranding (259 strands of AWG26). Example of suitable cable: class 5 “Tri-rated” cable (it has three approvals: American (UL), Canadian (CSA) and British (BS)). • In case of thicker strands the contact area will be too small and the resulting high contact resistance will cause severe overheating, eventually resulting in fire. See below figure for examples of what cable to use and not to use. (There’s a pic I can’t post here) So the stiff wires you bent to fit, to connect the SCC to breakers is probably unsuited. I have just ordered a 100/50 (same manual) to replace my Epever Tracer 6415AN, 60Amp, from the 24v Lifepo4 system, as it has a fault. Not communicating on RS485; it needed to be programmed externally (PC or MT50) to operate Lifepo4 User settings. I had an eLOG01 passing through to MT50, and often plugged in PC on 2nd RS485 port, as that was only way to see what charging mode it was in. I found Epever support to be quite helpful with Lifepo4 settings, have enquired about this problem. Best thing about the Epever “Imax Power Station” models is the excellent wiring box built in. Am going to use it on 12V GEL batteries, as it should be ok there.

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Michael, I'm aware of that. I have not twisted the strands on my cable before connecting to the breakers and SCC so they spread out a bit while tightening the screws. Best contact and no heat at all even under full power for hours. All tested 😉 But I will replace them with the new battery build anyways with the orange cable I'm using. I will use ferrules though.

I'm biased in my requests as I've just purchased a 200A JK BMS - but - would be great to see a test where there is a cell that is greatly different in SOC and/or voltage to the others (i.e. almost dead flat and the others at close to full) and have the JK BMS try and balance it while charging at it's highest charge rate and see if it gets hot. I'd also like to see you work with 18650 cells but that's a bit of a tall ask to get you to invest in an entirely different tech :) Thanks again for another great video by the way.

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks a lot for your comment. I was going to build some batteries with Li-ion batteries. If you go all the way back I started with matching a lot of cells to build a 7s/24V battery for my solar gate to replace the AGM batteries at some stage. I never continued that project as I don't see the point any more to have 56 used Li cells which I need to fuse, isolate and solder together in a pack when I can just buy 8 new LiFePO4 cells, slap a BMS on it and I'm done. I know it's good to recycle and re-use all these used cells but, man what a lot of work. Also from a safety perspective, I'm not sure if I'm comfortable with having these 56 used cell in a box at my front gate where I can barely monitor them. With LiFePO4 being so cheap, safe and reliable now, is there still a reason to use 18650 power walls?

Hi Andy, I'm quite new to the off grid matter and just placed my first two installations. One in huse and one in my campervan. I've got a question about the daly bms's: you said in the video that it only balances with 30 mA when it's charging.. Isn't it possible to make the bms balace more by lowering the threshold where it starts to balance? fore instance 3.3 V instead off 3.4 or 3.5? Curious to your thoughts. Regards Martin from The Netherlands

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your question Martin. Lowering the threshold or start voltage for the balancer makes no sense with LiFePO4 because of the very flat curve of this battery chemistry. I have made lots of videos exploring these options here on the channel. Balancing before 3.4V/3.45V makes no sense and does not balance the cells at all.

I'm pleased with my Daly's, packs are staying pretty balanced but I'm using 8s 250A versions

@lukaskorcak5583

2 жыл бұрын

Same here. 280Ah 8s with 200A DALY balancing well. There is 30mA balance current stated in the data sheet.

@nomiconxp

2 жыл бұрын

@@lukaskorcak5583 200A and above dalys have 200mA balancing

@awesomusmaximus3766

2 жыл бұрын

@@nomiconxp Yes

I’m having issues running two Daly BMS’s in parallel. Unfortunately they go to sleep randomly even with the sleep timer maxed out in settings. And the SOC meter is horrible. Can’t wait for my JK BMS’s to arrive! Thanks Andy for your videos and testing!

@muehna1

2 жыл бұрын

To avoid sleeping on daly bms type in 15300 seconds and it will stay on forever ;)

@brandonEpicAero

2 жыл бұрын

@@muehna1 Thanks brother! Will try that out. 👍🏼

i think swapping the pos leads for the neg leads on the meters would be better this way discharge shows a minus and charging shows a positive number

Hi Andy, would be good if you can test the new app for the neey balancer with your setup. Hopefully should be out soon. Thanks for your great work.

When you are below the Equator the electrons go the opposite way 🤔. Are you confusing the electrons again , 😳. I love your hard work. Keep it up!

Thanks for a new view of the BMS again :) Although I need a really high charge and discharge current and only Daly have 500A version of the affordable BMS. But would a Daly BMS combined with a 2A or 5A active balancer make sense to you?

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, that makes perfectly sense as long as you can control when the balancer is running. It should really be working above 3.45V only.

@jonasgranlund4427

2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Thank you so much for the input and that makes perfect sense to only balance when the pack is close to full. Thanks!"

Hello Andy, I have bought four EVE 304ah cells and QUCC Smart BMS 3S 12V 100A Lifepo4 4S with Balance. Now when I´m testing the BMS balance the function is the same as Daly BMS, the BMS is only balancing when charging. Is your BMS balancing even when the charging is off? Thanks for all you great videos. Wella

hi Andy, i am using a Daly non-smart 24s lifepo4 bms with 72v 24ah battery in an ebike. i charge either in 2 steps * 5a up to 84v then 0.1a until 87.6v or * 5a up to 87.6v if in a rush can you run tests at Low charging amps to see if the Daly does a good balance? i can't test if my cells are perfectly balanced since the pack is shrink wrapped but my pack works fine.

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

The problem with the Daly is, it will not balance if the current is too low. It needs at least this 1.1A to activate the balancer. If you shave off 30mA of that 1.1A while charging, it won't make a big difference (or needs a lot of cycles to make one). If the current drops at the end of a charging cycle, the balancer actually stops. Even the balancer would be more efficient at this point, they decided to stop balancing 🤷‍♂️

@b2939161

2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia thanks for that info, looks like i'll be charging at 1.1amps then.

Hey Andy, it would be interesting to tie these four Palo 7.2Ah cells in a pack with one BMS, and then use 4 EVE 304Ah with another BMS in another pack, and then charge/discharge them in parallel. This would be a very wildly exaggerated experiment which would interest anyone building a system with 1 or more packs now, who are hoping to expand in future, a future where lifepo4 cell capacity is wildly different, and where the previously used BMS is no longer available. Both packs would match eachother's voltage (BMS permitting, but both BMSes should be set up similarly) at all times. At the extremes, the steep parts of the charging curve, both packs should mostly match their state-of-charge. On the flat part of the charging curve, they could vary wildly in state-of-charge, even though the voltage matches. Then, it would also make sense that the amperage of each pack is quasi proportional to the capacity of each pack. But the reality might be slightly different and it would be a wildly interesting experiment that sounds right up your alley :)

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Luc, this video is coming soon. I'm just waiting for another 4s BMS to come in...

@luc_libv_verhaegen

2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Cool!

Yes please test now those active cheap balancers

@wandido2001

2 жыл бұрын

That would be a great test now that you have dedicated ammeters

Could you try testing while the battery is discharging? I have an 8s Daly and just hooked it up. I was confused as it didn't seem to balance, hence how I found your video. I had over .3v difference and couldn't get it to "activate" as batteries were full. So, I connected a big load 1.5Kw, and found that my cells are now all balanced after about 15mins.

Andy! I have installed a Daly in a 48v battery system. I get the voltages on my phone I try to turn on the balance but no luck. What am I missing?

@OffGridGarageAustralia

10 ай бұрын

The balancer will only work above a certain voltage. The Daly has a only a tiny passive balancer, so may not work well for your batteries depending on the Ah they have.

I once bought a very similar multimeter, the cheapest one available in the hardware store, for one reason: It has a built in transistor tester. It seems like just the cheapest ones have it these days...

So glad you do the dilly-Daly, so I don't have to.

I have had my Daly units for some time now i have a 4s 8s and 15s setup and all work absolutely fine balancing does not seem to be an issue and i run them around the clock . They just seem to work for me no problem .

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

At what voltage do you start balancing though?

@Dailyroach

2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Balance open start voltage is 3.2V Balance open diff 0.05v cell ref 3.2v . max voltage 3.314 . voltage diff currently at 0.003v this is on my 15s pack . these cells are fairly heavily used so i find the lower voltages work well for me .

I am sold its going to be a QUCC or JK bms for my next setup

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

Go JK if you can!

Oh Andy …. 😂 Green beans 🐸

Yes 👍 🔋⚡

I use a 120A 4S Daly BMS for my big 280Ah EVE cells. It hasn't had any issues, but I've yet to test it very rigorously. The solar panels feeding it are a little... suboptimal

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

And drifting will get worse once the cells get older. Will be interesting to see if the Daly still keeps up with that.

@garys-half-baked-offgrid-dream

2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Andy I will find that out and tell you, my cells are 💩. Ment to be new grade A but only pulling 80% rated capasity and they are a bit bloated.

@Miskerest

2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia I figure! Thanks for the videos and the tests, even if our situations don't match up exactly, any data is helpful data! Cheers from US

Dear Andi, i am very curious if it is possible to CHarge these lifepo4 32700 cells at 1C of maybe higher. I do not have any equipment for that. Or maybe somebody else tried fast charging 32700 cells? The goal is to make a ebike battery that charges at least half as fast as a Tesla, so about 45 minutes. As lifepo4 have low internal resistance that should be possible without to much heat. Thanks, greetings from The Netherlands.

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

Johan, the specs say the cells can be charged with 3C and discharged with 5C. I would not recommend this on a regular base though.

I have been having one heck of an issue with the Daly and balancing. Once,my batteries reached about 54 volts the balance of the cells went to pot. This caused my DALY to go into alarm and shut down.

@unliyou

2 жыл бұрын

In the early days of my off grid 48V setup, it is easy to trigger the BMS to go into shut down. I reconfigured the solar charge controllers that each will stop charging when reaching a specified battery voltage to avoid the BMS from triggering due to over cell voltage and its been great since then. The preset configuration for LiFePO4 on my solar charge controllers are too high that I need to tune it down to avoid cell over voltage. Overtime I increased the battery voltage limit on the chargers, small step at a time to the point the battery can go up to 57.92V or 3.62V per cell which is still below the BMS limit per cell.

The scientist 😎

Do the same test on the active balancer

Interesting tests, and we learn a lot from you. But regarding the topic, haven't we already concluded that balancing the cells does not make sense between 3.0 - 3.5 Volts. Top balancing or bottom balancing when building the battery, then leave the cells "calibrated".

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

That rule does not apply to the Daly BMS as we have seen in my previous test. The biggest problem with that is the Daly only balances if the app shows a charge current. We cannot use the Daly to top balance the pack like with other BMS.

Andy, I have an experiment idea for you that would answer a question I have been trying to find the answer to regarding LifePO4 chemistry and long term (several months) storage in a cold climate (well below 0 degrees C) I know in sunny hot Australia this is not a problem but it is for us in the North. I have a remote cabin that is presently using AGM batteries as part of a small solar system. I really want to convert to LifePO4 battery setup but the problem is the deep winter months when the batteries will not be used. For reasons I won't get into, removing the batteries in December and re-installing in May is not a realistic option. Therefore the batteries will sit idle for several months. Obviously, I would disconnect all loads and charging mechanisms so it would be a true "storage" situation. My unanswered question is this: will this long term exposure to cold temps somehow harm the battery? I have gotten answers from one end of the continuum (yes it will harm them) to the other end (no, it likely will not hurt them as long as there is no load or charging going on during this time). So, up for a different type of challenge?

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

That's a good question, John. I'm just totally unable to answer this or even test it... Maybe some other from colder climates can jump in here and share some thoughts.

Heya, jb bms atill looks the best till now so I'll stick to that for now

the cell is not feeding power from one cell to another (active balancing) what is going on is that all cells over a set voltage or dumping the power into the dump load resisters the one cell thats charge is been brute up to the voltage of the others from the charge power your inputting i am assuming it only balances cells that have the 20mv difference my idea is remove the dump load resister and add a transister or relay that can then trigger a higher dump load to burn off higher amounts of current for larger packs my other idea if that does not work is using buck/boost converter with a shut off voltage limit on the input so if voltage is below the set voltage it wont turn on to burn off the excess power once it is over the turn on voltage it then dumps the load

Hey Andy looking to buy a good bms for my lifepo4 cells..which do you recommend? Could you please leave a link?

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

I would 100% recommend the JK-BMS if you have at least an 8s battery. It's the first one on my website: off-grid-garage.com/battery-management-systems-bms/

@j12simpson

2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia I'll be putting it to 16s configuration...jk is better than qucc

I guess you could use the balance voltage to trigger separate relays with variable loads for each cell to make the balance current higher and at a level of your choosing. I wonder the the Daly would like that though. Assuming this doesnt interrupt the testing process , it could work

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

How do you do read the cell voltages and trigger a relay?

@DENMONKEY

2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia aww come one I hadnt thought that far ahead :). maybe split the wire and a blocking diode on the one to the relay?

Great job. It works, poorly and slowly. Now I'm wondering what the best 24BMS would be for 280AH cells?

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

For 24V or 24cells? Either way I would go with the JK-BMS. Great BMS, functions, active balancer and fantastic app.

Schöner Test. Wie wäre es mit einem weiterm Test? Die Abschaltung bei zuhohem lade- und entladestrom.

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

Das hatte ich schon beim ersten Daly Test getestet glaube ich.

"Daly BMS uses only a tiny amount of current to balance one cell at a time!" (Also) "Daly BMS is not efficient as it uses a small resistive load to balance one cell at a time!" At the end of the day, if you start out with quality cells that are reasonably balanced to begin with, the Daly BMS is proven to keep them that way. How that is achieved is not nearly so important as the fact that is does keep cells reasonably well-balanced...as your own resting voltages (of abused cells) actually shows.

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Jason, most people will not buy expensive high quality cells but the ones form China, 'matched and tested before shipping'. That's what we get then.

J'ai aimé cette preuve !

Do they have harbor freight in Australia? They have those meters for under $4usd

30mA is probably not enough for a 280Ah battery but for a pre-balanced battery around 50Ah or less, it should be enough to compensate for IR drift between cells. I think this is totally ok for some use cases

@farmerjhemp

2 жыл бұрын

If the cells are top balanced and match the Daly balances fine. I'm running 8 280ah cells and with panels and works perfect.

When mine is balancing it won't balance cells directly connected to each other at the same time like it will do one and three together or two and four together but it can't do one and two at the same time it will have to switch off and do one and then two

Hi Andy . I'm Charles in RSA . I have heared you recone DALY BSM 's are cheap crap . Here by us it's the most commonly used .The LBSA Daly 100a 15s/16s 48v LifePO4 smart BMS with optional display or bluetooth with a price of + -- R2 614,95 this is not cheap at all . By the way the Digital Mermaid has the best busbars . Keep on testing, have a nice day.

Hi thanks for good explanations, i thought i was doing something wrong on mine Daly anyhow pleas try on 10s daly to se what happen, but its going to cost you 6 more yellow multimeters hehehe, keep doing good jobs Andy, greetings from Iceland.

Servus Andy was hab ihr denn für nen geilen Baumarkt, die Krokos für die messspitzen finde ich sehr GEIL, die Messgeräte finde ich auch Super, in der Regel hat man 0 Respekt vor denen und desshalb leben Sie nie lange :-) *brutzelbrutzel Ps.: vielen Dank für deine Videos! :-)

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

Super, danke Dir vielmals!

Okay yes when you're measuring the positive side of a battery the current will be reversed the electrons leave the negative side of the battery go through the wires to the load and return on the positive side if you don't flip your leads around you will read the opposite current either positive or negative just opposite of what you had on the negative side those numbers should be the same but the meter will have some bias for forward or reverse it would be better to figure out the bias in the meter with a known load at the same voltage measure with the leads one way swap them around measure it again the real number should be somewhere in the middle there then if you measure on the negative with the wires whatever way it'll either be positive or negative but on the positive side of the cell that current will be reversed unless you reverse the leads

Hallo Andy! Hab deinen Kanal leider erst sehr spät gefunden! Ich habe einen Daly 8S 120A im Einsatz und lese diesen via Raspberry + RS485 aus. Dabei kann man auch auslesen welche Zellen gerade ausgeglichen werden. Das komische ist nun, dass es mir mehrere Zellen anzeigt die zur selben Zeit gebalanced werden. Irgendwie widerspricht sich das jetzt. In deinem Video ist eindeutig zu sehen dass immer nur eine einzelne Zelle ausgeglichen wird. Strom habe ich noch nie gemessen, habe nebenbei noch einen aktiven Balancer und keine Probleme dass sie extrem weg driften. Mich wundert es, dass du immer mit der App arbeitest bei deinen vielen Tests und nicht auch zb einen Raspi verwendest wo du viel mehr Daten raus bekommst. Schade dass du deine Videos nicht in Deutsch machst, ich gucke immer mit Untertitel da mein Englisch nicht das beste ist ^^ Mach weiter so, du machst echt super Videos die Unterhaltsam sind! Viele Grüsse aus Österreich

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

Danke Dir Stefan. Ich koennte natuerlich einen Raspi nehmen um noch mehr Daten auszulesen. Das Problem ist ZEIT! Davon hab ich einach zu wenig. In deinem Fall wuerde ich sagen, das die Daten nicht richtig ausgelesen oder verarbeitet werden. Miss doch mal den Strom an deinem BMS and vergleiche ob das mit dem Raspi uebereinstimmt. Ich habe noch zwei Kanaele in Deutsch 😎

Thumbs up and subscribed! Maybe your parts are on a cargo ship off the coast of California!

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

This guy! 😂

My Daly 200 amp BMS is a good one it has true low temp cut off and that's customized in the Smart BMS app and I can run 150 160 amps through it and its still cold to the touch so yea it's a winner with me and I now have 8 200 ah plastic encased lifpo4 cells all in 4s 2p configuration and 4 20 watt heating pads and a renogy 500 amp battery monitor all in a tote box thing is super heavy though but I live what I built for 400.00 bucks not a bad deal I'm down to 263.00 to my name but this is a long term investment for my lifestyle and future use

I'm half way through the video, it makes perfect sense - that's the best way to balance the quickest surely? What would be better?

@KevIsOffGrid

2 жыл бұрын

good work on 4 meters - now at 18 mins, only 1 cell is 0.02v out so only 1 cell is balancing, rest are within 0.02v of each other - the balance difference.

@KevIsOffGrid

2 жыл бұрын

and when another goes out then it starts balancing that - usually they can do odds, or evens together - you even see this on your QUCC - its either odds, or evens in balancing.

@KevIsOffGrid

2 жыл бұрын

if it engaged all balancers together there would be a short due - it cant balance cells next to each other - do this same test on 4 cells from your QUCC and you will see the balance switch from odds to evens too.

Bezuegl. JK BMS : Könntest du bei Gelegenheit , ah ja , wanns nich so schön draussn is und es grad langweilig (nie) is ... Kannst du mal den Ladestrom vom JK mit deiner 16s batterie testen , also Balancer aus , im JK maximal Laden(Ladestrom im BMS App begrenzen) mit 0,5A oder 1 A oder 2A , ohne Last und schauen was am Netzteil gezogen wird? Bei meiner 4S Konstruktion und dem JK BMS mit Einstellung max CHarging von 1A oder 2A kamen locker 4 A durch , da wär mein Batterie pack hin , falls ich da 4A auf Dauer drauf lasse, ich denke beim Balancer (wann 2A eingestellt) kommen dann auch mehr als 2 A durch, desshalb erstmal aus . Jetzt würde mich interessieren ob das JK bei 48V einigermaßen genau ist. Leider hab ich derzeit kein 16s Pack um das zu testen. Ps.: Das lässt mir keine Ruhe ich zerleg jetzt meinen Garagenfund Batteriepack + die schlechten zellen dann hab ich 14s , mit dieser Anzahl Zellen-spannung sollte das JK ja richtig Strom messen , hoff ich , sonst geht es zurück

@BavarianSuperGuy

2 жыл бұрын

Ich beantwort mich selbst , hab jetzt den Pack umgebaut , jetzt brauch ich natürlich keine extra 48 versorgung mehr und es sollte alles gehen , tut es aber nicht , meine Annahme war falsch daß es nur im 4S Betrieb falsch misst . Das JK BMS misst immer noch falsch Strom , werde nun einen Disput bei ALI öffnen , MIST... der erste :-(

Curious about S8 and higher s packs if they would balance more then one cell. Maybe a cross compatible issue of it's design.

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

You should be able to measure the balance current with a clamp meter. Not sure if the other Dalys are balancing differently. I wouldn't expect that though.

Andy i made a bms out of 7 tl431 7s ,it only balance the cell if it's sets at 4.1, active and stop below .i built seven of them ,when i test them they start behaving like how the Daly behave ,so i dropped everything and buy Daly it works .oh daly has under voltage lockout and over voltage protection. simple is better remember u dont want malware attacks or virus on your bms. 😯😯😯😯🤐🤐🤐🤐🤔🤔🤔🤔

@farmerjhemp

2 жыл бұрын

I've been asking him to do a real world test because mine works flawless. I think he's scared to hook up this big cells to it lol. I don't really understand the point of these tests. I mean in the real world most people would have their batteries hooked up to solar panels. Yes it only balances while charging but if your cells are top balanced and somewhat matched they work. At least for me I'm running b grade Eve 280ah cells and my pack is stayed perfectly balanced for several months.

@olvano

2 жыл бұрын

lets pressure him into a big pack test ,he don't have anything else to do.loll 🙂🙂🥱

You could teach yourself a little Arduino programming and create a 16ch logger using a mega and plot voltage and current (using a shunt..) to get a better insight to the timeline of tests like this..

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

There is just not enough time for all of that but there are some interesting projects out there, absolutely!

What does Different Temp Level 2 mean?

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

There is no temperature sensor connected to the BMS. They forgot to sent one 🤦‍♂️

@simonak2724

2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia I've got Cell Level High Level 2.

Crocodile cable 🤣don't you mean Alligator clip?

I've using alligator jumper wires for many many years and over the last fifteen or twenty years I have found that sometimes the wires coming loose at the clip itself because they're only eat crimped moisture everything else gets in the way and next thing you know why our goes dead on you I found if you open them up and solder two wires in then you have a good connection give it a try

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

I soldered all my other jumper cables a while back as I had constantly problems.

Goten tag 😊

@OffGridGarageAustralia

10 ай бұрын

Hi 👋

Just be careful when using blutack, it is conductive! My son used it on a wall wart power supply as a way to make sure that the positive and negative wire's which he had cut and twisted together don't touch each other buy wrapping both polarities in blutack, the blutack got really hot 🔥... Could have started a fire and burnt the house down!

@wayne8113

2 жыл бұрын

@Peter Milanovski, Just tested doesn't seem to be conductive, maybe the heat came from poor connection (twisted together) 🤔

@PeterMilanovski

2 жыл бұрын

@@wayne8113 it's quite possible! I know that the blutack was not fresh so it could have had some contamination in it.... It may also behave differently at different voltage? I don't really know for sure, your comment has made me re think... I need really tried to test it but after that experience, in which it was in use for some time I decided to never do that again.... I'm going to have to test it with the lab power supply at different voltages to see if I can recreate the problem...

ok, I stayed out of leaving a comment but I figured I'll throw this out there, I think the premise is wrong - you're assuming the bms is discharging the highest batteries, I think it actually bypassing some current to the lowest cell. For example, say 4 is the lowest, the bms will turn on the "balance" resistors on cells 1, 2 and 3, that means it will bypass some of the current directly to cell 4. Same if you have cell 3 the lowest, will bypass some current by cells 1 and 2. I think that's why you're seeing what you are seeing but with the incorrect assumption that the cells are discharged but since this only happens when you're charging with a higher voltage potential from the power supply you're actually not discharging but you're bypassing some current to the lowest cell. Things to note: I have no idea how the daly bms works, i'm just pointing out things that I observed and the premise of discharging the highest cell being wrong. I am writing this comment about 1/2 way in the vid (before you added the multimeters on the balance leads)

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

Well, it is discharging only the highest cell with a resistor. We have seen the current from the positive terminal to the negative terminal. It's clearly a discharge current.

@arebear4797

2 жыл бұрын

You should stay out leaving a comment.

@sharpx777

2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia look at the cell voltage, is rising so you're not discharging. If you resolve the circuit itself you'll see you have the power supply voltage, then the cell and its internal resistance on one branch and another resistor in parallel on the other branch, current is split between the 2 branches. You could say is charging with less current but for sure not discharging since the current coming out of the power supply is higher than your balance current so there's always current going into all the cells while charging, once the bms turns the charging off there isn't any balancing so you're never discharging a cell (EDIT: I mean the balancing doesn't discharge a cell just so I avoid being called out).

@sharpx777

2 жыл бұрын

@@arebear4797 take your own advice and stop trolling...

@sharpx777

2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia You are correct though regarding doing only 1 cell at a time - regardless I think it's pretty much useless as far as balancing goes with the limited balance current

Without knowing the exact operation of the firmware coded into the Dali, you cannot get a result just by connecting and testing for short periods like you do. It may need to be connected and running for some time for it to properly balance so their algorithm can operate correctly over a the period of time it was intended to run.

@GTrainRx7

2 жыл бұрын

That sounds like an excuse for something not working properly. I read what you said as "just leave it for a while and it will start eventually". Which (if that is what you mean) is total rubbish! If it doesn't balance out of the box, it is broken. Or to put it another way... "As long as you don't need to balance when you connect it, it will be fine". Again, you buy a BMS to work as soon as required. Imagine saying it will only work on over voltage, after a few tries?. Ridiculous.

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

I don't think the Daly has an algorithm or is learning over time as some said. It's just a simple on/off resistor balancing.

that's why for daly i set up at 3.00v to begin balance, 60mA maximum is too small

the funny thing is that balance is off and it's balancing😂

Did you use the poorly soldered jumper on tests previous to the 4 meter testing? Maybe old tests were affected by this bad wire also! Possibly it has been frustrating you for awhile now.

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

That was a brand new cable from the electronic store, banana plug on one side, crocodile on the other.

Hmmm! Frozen Green beans???? Nah! I think it's time for another OeTTINGER'.

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

Absolutely! 🍺

Andy. Have you looked at a Batrium bms?

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, many times...

@cliffanderson6787

2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia you asked for suggestions - how about a comparison video between the batrium and the other bms you have used?

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

@@cliffanderson6787 A Batrium BMS is out of (financial) range for most people here. I'm in contact with Batrium for a while but haven't proceed with it yet. I'm glad I found the JK-BMS which everyone can afford. Maybe down the track I will do it and install a Batrium.

So the Daly is perhaps a sequential cell balancer, while others are capable of balancing all cells at once. That's certainly one way to simplify the parts count and cost. Question really is, if you hooked them up to two 50A batteries and left the Daly and a "better" BMS each running, would the state of charge be the same for each battery, in the real world? Does the difference matter?

@DavidHalko

2 жыл бұрын

“hooked them up to two 50A batteries… real world?” I don’t know anyone who would hook a BMS to 2x 3.2v batteries, except for motorcycle starter batteries, and that is not Andy’s use case. Therefore, your suggested test is not a real world test. A real world test would be a series of LiFePo4 batteries in a 12v, 24v, 36v, or 48v system… with a minimum of 4 cells, and Andy satisfied the real world test, many times over, with this nightmare scenario that he had. Daly stinks for larger systems like 48v batteries. A slow balance to only 1 battery at a time on a large battery bank during charging is terrible! For your suggestion, Daly would likely be great on a 2x cell LiFePo4 motorcycle battery with a multi-week trickle charger, would likely perform as good as any other BMS in that real world scenario, but that is about the only real world scenario that I could think is remotely relevant, and that is a far reach!

@farmerjhemp

2 жыл бұрын

@@DavidHalko I don't understand the point of these videos either. I asked him to do a real world test also. I'm running a cheap dumb dally 100a on 8 280ah b grade cells. It keeps my pack perfectly balanced. I don't know if he's afraid to hook up his expensive cells to it or what.

@DavidHalko

2 жыл бұрын

@@farmerjhemp - I think the point was to understand why his large battery bank did not top balance when he was charging with a fairly high current. He determined early that the balance current was very small and the balance current would stop balancing when the Daly hit the maximum voltage (instead of stopping the charging and allowing the balance to continue until the batteries were completely balanced.) In the end, if the batteries are not in balance and a large current from a large solar array charges the bank before the bank is balanced, it will not balance properly. If a small current from a small solar array charges the bank, the small balance current may be enough. This was my takeaway from videos. It was a pretty solid takeaway. If someone wants to use a Daly and is willing to trickle charge their battery, at a value lower than the Daly balance current, after Daly shuts off the charging & balancing, the Daly will do fine. It depends if someone wants to buy the correct charging equipment to do it right, if they buy a Daly BMS, or if someone wants to buy a BMS which does not require the special charging equipment. That is the decision one must make.

@farmerjhemp

2 жыл бұрын

@@DavidHalko it keeps my large b grade pack perfectly balanced with nothing extra. Did Andy ever test anything other than these shrimp cells with the Daly. I don't think he ever did any real world tests with the BMS. Never hooked up panels or decent sized top balanced cells. Please explain to me why it works so well for me? I'm charging with a decent current up to 1000 watts from panels. I have never seen more than 20mv deviation and rarely more than 5mv.

Test it with bigger batts but still a good review though nice job

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

What would be the outcome with larger cells. It balances longer but has also way more energy to burn. The result will be the same. Burning energy is never good. These days we have active balancing, right? It's at least far more efficient.

@awesomusmaximus3766

2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Because it is designed for bigger batts but that puny 30 ma current means your probably right

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

@@awesomusmaximus3766 for these bigger batteries you would usually use a bigger BMS and some said they have 200mA of balance current now.

@awesomusmaximus3766

2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia I'd like to see 2A per cell Ideally

Andy, why don't you use the PC App and then you can see what is going on. No wonder cell 4 is low if the BMS is always drawing current from it.

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

It does not draw just from cell #4 though, the 17mA is from all cells.

Hi I'm Muhammad Babar , you are very hardworking why not you should make your own bms I can help you

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

Man, thanks for the offer but I haven't got time for everything. Why don't you make it yourself and start your own KZread channel. I would watch it. Teach us!

Hi Andy, in regard to the Daly BMS and the balance problem with only 30 milliamps; and the same problem as you I bought a QUCC active balancer, and I have to say that my Daly is now working better with my 60Ah LiFeP04 Lead-Acid replacment. So for battery num. 2 you can try it.

... Not to mention a constant 17 mA drain on cell 1 for the BMS whilst it is poorly balancing all cells won't fare well...

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, a lot of current for just a protection board...

@hugodeandres1497

2 жыл бұрын

But thats not only draining cell 1, its the whole pack, isn’t it? 0,017mA @ 12V is 0,2W i dont think its that bad

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

@@hugodeandres1497 Yes, but the 17mA are not balancing anything as it applies to all cells at the same time. It's an insane high current the BMS uses. Almost half an Ah per day.

@hugodeandres1497

2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia 0,017A*24h*12V= 4,9Wh per day. Still not that bad considering the bank would be much much bigger. Yes, the balancing is not perfect, the standby current draw is not perfect. Nothing is perfect with Daly, it just works for most uses and that’s what matters

Would be nice to read from left to right same as the BMS ap .Maybe it is because they are Chinese batteries and they read right to left 🙃

@USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity

2 жыл бұрын

Everything is left to right. Why right to left, no idea!

@cncdavenz

2 жыл бұрын

@@USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity Battery 1 on the right on the table but on the app display on the phone its on the left.

nice, but? What about 16S DALY BMS used on LFP Batteries with + 200Ah/ cell capacity and charge and discharge at max 115A, 50A normal load, balancing with max 30ma using the highest cell only seems to me the same as not balancing. Charging and discharging at least + 50% of the capacity every day, how the cells get balanced using only max 30ma on 16 x 200Ah cells. Therefore I assume 250Amp 16S Smart Daly BMS must work differently and have a much higher balancing capacity.

@OffGridGarageAustralia

11 ай бұрын

You want an active balancer for such a setup.

I got an update about the neey from the manufacturer, I sent it to your email

@martink9785

2 жыл бұрын

Please share, I'm interested in buying one but am holding off until I hear positive news

@todamnbad

2 жыл бұрын

@@martink9785 if you watch the video andy did about it he explains how parameters aren't correct and can't be changed so people complained and they released a newer version and are also updating the app now, it all started with Andy

@martink9785

2 жыл бұрын

@@todamnbad Amazing! I have watched Andy's videos and that was why I was waiting for changes to be made. For my use case with a 4s pack, I was planning to turn the whole device on while charging and off when I finish as I don't want the extra drain of a boost converter anyway. I was holding out, out of principle.

@todamnbad

2 жыл бұрын

@@martink9785 as is it still works if you want to use it intermittently but for long term use these updated were needed, I will know how things go in about two weeks

Bummer. I don't think I will trust the 2 x 250amp Daly bms's I have with $3000 of lifepo4 cells. Not that I have any cells yet anyway :)

@OffGridGarageAustralia

2 жыл бұрын

It will be fine. Let's install it and see how it works over time...

@NaughtyGoatFarm

2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia if nothing else it might make good content :)

I know this is a year old video but you could've just flipped the batteries. It is a bit confusing to monitor when battery 1 is at the far left on the ammeter and the batteru is at the far right of the app. Makes my head ache.