I haven't seen indirect evaporative cooling systems with counter current heat exchangers before, and I have been curious why it isn't common. I suspect large heat exchange capacity is required to reach well below the wet bulb temperature, but being able to cool air down below the wet bulb temperature, at all, without adding moisture, and just by moving the air, is fantastic. Do you have any system that utilize some easily "rechargeable" desiccant to dehumidify the air that doesn't add all the heat released by condensation to the cooled air?

@seeleyinternationalemena2736

Ай бұрын

@fishyerik thanks for your comment. Unfortunately, no, we only have M-cycle indirect evaporative cooling models available.

Are there any residential models available?

@seeleyinternationalemena2736

2 ай бұрын

hi @nelsondog100, what country are you contacting us from? This way we can direct you to the models available in that specific country.

@nelsondog100

2 ай бұрын

@@seeleyinternationalemena2736 I’m in the Philippines and I know there are many more who are interested as well.

@saravanar7140

Ай бұрын

Do you hv branches in India?

@seeleyinternationalemena2736

Ай бұрын

@@saravanar7140 Hi and thanks for your interest, for Northern and Central India you can contact www.arkehvac.in, for Southern India you can contact sales@venttup.com

@Xerox482

Ай бұрын

@@seeleyinternationalemena2736 please consider opening office in Pakistan too , when power usage is low and consumer can get cool air then your product will sell it high volume , in pakistan electricity is expensive where people cant afford to run normal AC units because here its easy to buy AC unit but electric bills are too high. so please consider our country am sure your product will sell very well here. thanks

I have been familiar with and impressed by "swamp cooling" for a long time now. But this counterflow technique is a truly new and innovative idea. I wish I'd thought of that! My next home will be 100% off-grid and, while I aim for few compromises, I really want to avoid whole home HVAC (because it takes so much energy, wastes so much energy, and is noisy) so I must look at good, effective cooling alternatives. This Climate Wizard looks great.

@seeleyinternationalemena2736

2 ай бұрын

Hi @PeterLawton great to learn that you are considering The Climate Wizard for your next home! Feel free to contact us anytime, so that we can direct you to the right office depending on your country.

@tqasim1201

Ай бұрын

Could you, please advise me right office for Pakistan? Would like to introduce this in Pakistan starting from my own home. Will appreciate.

@seeleyinternationalemena2736

Ай бұрын

@@tqasim1201 we have an official distributor in Pakistan, which is ANSA Int. You can contact them directly, visiting www.ansaint.com

@tqasim1201

Ай бұрын

@@seeleyinternationalemena2736 Many thanks & will contact ANSA directly.

@Cineenvenordquist

Ай бұрын

Hope you can manage the cooling water. Use a split and clever ventilation instead (because that's a bunch of saltwater valoration and desalination you're covering otherwise.)

This way you can also easily extract water from the humid air. Cooled air and water for your garden.

If you cool down outside air it's relative humidity rises - no matter how you did the cooling. Once you pass 60 - 70 % humidity it starts feeling uncomfortable. So it's a good thing for hot dry climates- if you have enough water. In humid climates it could save some energy, but you'd still need equipment to remove excess humidity.

@seeleyinternationalemena2736

Ай бұрын

You are right, RH% rises when cooling outside air. But what causes the unconfortable feeling is actually the amount of moisture in the air (absolute humidity - that would ideally be kept under 15gr/kg of dry air), which is not increased with the M-cycle indirect evaporative cooling technology. Ideal RH% indoor is 40-60% (if the air is too dry, the bacteria and viruses are spread more easily and mucous membranes cannot filter them). By supplying 100% outside air, M-cycle indirect evaporative coolers need to work in conjuction with extract systems.

Hi, what is the consequence of wetbulb on cooling efficiency

@seeleyinternationalemena2736

Ай бұрын

Hi, @asifansari-nu1lu. Given the same airflow, the lower the supply air temperature (below the wet bulb, as supplied by the M-cycle Indirect Evaporative Cooler), the higher the cooling capacity. If you have further questions, send us an email at europesales@seeleyinternational.com

Would this work in high humid tropical climates - dew point is quite close to ambient

@seeleyinternationalemena2736

Ай бұрын

We have proved efficiency of evaporative cooling technology in humid areas, such as Mediterranean coastal area and The Gulf, with excellent results. In fact, outdoor humidity is lower when the heat is at its highest, which is also when cooling is mostly needed. Also consider that Climate Wizard units do not add humidity to the air: for this reason they can be also used in pre-cooling application to improve the efficiency of an Air Handling Unit. Visit our website for more info www.seeleyinternational.com/eu/commercial/commercial-europe/

What is the water consumption of these units? per degree, per watt, per btu...?

@seeleyinternationalemena2736

Ай бұрын

At outside conditions of 38°C dry-bulb, 21°C wet-bulb the water consumption (depending on the models you consider), cooling capacity may vary from 8 to 40 kW and water consumption may vary from 44 to 72 l/h.

@crapisnice

Ай бұрын

Any clay ceramic evaporative cooling can use saltwater

@Cineenvenordquist

Ай бұрын

​@@seeleyinternationalemena2736...which is bloody brilliant in the western 1/15 of WA I suppose? Are those exchanger plates steel or some other long-wearing stuff?

Dose it work? On high humid area

@seeleyinternationalemena2736

7 ай бұрын

Hi & thanks for your interesting question. We have proved efficiency of evaporative cooling technology in humid areas, such as Mediterranean coastal area and The Gulf, with excellent results. In fact, outdoor humidity is lower when the heat is at its highest, which is also when cooling is mostly needed. Also consider that Climate Wizard units do not add humidity to the air: for this reason they can be also used in pre-cooling application to improve the efficiency of an Air Handling Unit. Visit our website for more info www.seeleyinternational.com/eu/commercial/commercial-europe/

@mecnocraftautomation2706

2 ай бұрын

Depending on size it will vary I think so

Does it supply temprature equal to ac..? While we consider 400cfm/Ton Can we say your 2750 cfm system is equal to 6.5ton..?

@Fumbiver

2 ай бұрын

you can't regulate temperature in these, at least in the residential models. But the difference they provide is amazing. In addition to the simplicity of the product. It's basically a high speed fan put in front of a water saturated pad and it works wonders.

@dheerajsharma7521

2 ай бұрын

@@Fumbiver if we compare this unit with AHU connected to chiller

@seeleyinternationalemena2736

2 ай бұрын

@dheerajsharma7521 and @Fumbiver The supply air temperature depends on the outdoor air conditions, both in terms of temperature and humidity. Therefore, The Climate Wizard could provide an air temperature equal to that of AC under certain outdoor air conditions. However, the EER of these units will always be much better than that of standard AC units. Consider also that it is possible to use the The Climate Wizard M-Cycle Indirect evaporative cooling unit in combination with an AHU, either to provide 100% fresh, constantly cooled air in the building or to pre-cool the outside air treated by the AHU.

What equivalent tonnage AC can these units match? Assume standard conditions, or best case scenario, give us a number.

@Cineenvenordquist

Ай бұрын

One number on nonmatching things isn't gonna get it, though they do show 37°C roof air hitting 19°C, just pick a unit size and get your tonnage data point. (Or read reviews of that wet market...)

@ckush928

Ай бұрын

Cooling capacity depends on how much air these can supply at that 19°C. No way to find that out. Just increasing the flow rate doesn't mean that the temp will stay 19°C.

@seeleyinternationalemena2736

Ай бұрын

@@ckush928 The airflow rate of these units vary from 800 l/s up to 8500 l/s and cooling capacity vary from 18 kW to 214 kW. Values used to calculate these cooling capacities are 38°C db/21°C wb for outdoor air and the DB temperature of the supply air.

Why hot outside air can be cooled when it passed through dry channel? Via substantial large surface area?

@seeleyinternationalemena2736

4 ай бұрын

The core is an air-to-air M-cycle heat exchanger consisting of alternating dry and wet channels. All of the air passes along the dry channels and gains no additional moisture. As the air exits the dry channels, a portion of the conditioned air is returned through the wet channels, where it is cooled by evaporative cooling process. No moisture is transferred across the membranes between the dry and wet channels; only heat is transferred. The heat passes out of the air in the dry channels through the membrane and into the air passing through the wet channels. In this way, the air in the dry channels becomes progressively colder but gains no moisture. The wet channels are continuously soaked with water to allow the evaporative cooling process along the entire length of the core. This moist, warm air is then exhausted outside. The cold air is then pushed into the building.

@SHIVAm-mp1dk

2 ай бұрын

Via indirect evap cooling

Is this type of ac suitable for humid Florida conditions?

@Cineenvenordquist

Ай бұрын

A swamp cooler in FL; I mean, it's right there, no. Do the MIT cooler and some embedded PV then back it with splits and what you need to do with eluent from the chiller coils. Though these people do make heat exchangers, so for ventilation...

@seeleyinternationalemena2736

Ай бұрын

@knutbergan suitability of products depend on application and design conditions, for example our CW3 unit (the smallest in the range) under ASHRAE design conditions of Orlando (34.3 °C DB ; 24.8 °C MCWB) may supply up to more than 5,000 m3/h with a dry bulb temperature of 24.3°C and wet bulb 22.8 °C. We have sold units in far more humid locations, so I would say it is not suitable for all applications, but for most industrial commercial ones, yes. For more information, send your design conditions to europesales@seeleyinternational.com

Coolerado did this over 20 years ago. I guess that's why Seely bought them?

@seeleyinternationalemena2736

Ай бұрын

Hi @mikehughesdesigns Coolerado is actually part of the Seeley International group.

Sales pitch so I am still a doubting Thomas on the energy savings. Heat exchange is nothing new but typically segregated exchanges are low efficiency.

@seeleyinternationalemena2736

Ай бұрын

Hi @franks4973 not sure what you exactly mean by "heat exchange". The M-cycle principe relies on a heat exchange between dry and wet channels, but as a portion of the fresh air returns into the wet channels, it lowers down the dry bulb temperature of the working air. This allows the unit to deliver a supply air temperature below the wet bulb value of outside temperature. For more info visit www.seeleyinternational.com

증발기와 열교환기를 분리하는게 나아 보입니다. 물은 열전달률이 낮아 제조원가가 높아질 우려가 있습니다.

I would like to know more

@seeleyinternationalemena2736

Ай бұрын

Hi @diepieche, thanks for your enquiry. You can visit www.seeleyinternational.com/eu/commercial/climate-wizard-indirect-evaporative-cooling-eu/ or send an enquiry to europesales@seeleyinternational.com

Is the process reversible? Can it be used for heating?

@mrpicky1868

Ай бұрын

heating is easy . and no its not a heat pump

@seeleyinternationalemena2736

Ай бұрын

No @pubanz8, the process in not reversible

@guringai

Ай бұрын

Typically a reverse cycle air conditioner is the best unit to use, as it is easier to seal off the building. Both heating and cooling from the same unit

@seeleyinternationalemena2736

Ай бұрын

@@guringai to improve Indoor Air Quality you need to deliver more fresh outside air into the building. This is very important to decrease viruses and germs transmission, which is instead increased if you seal off the building. The more external air you need to treat, the more the power consumption of the standard A/C systems. M-cycle indirect evaporative coolers are based in using 100% fresh air with up to 80% lower energy consumption, if compared with a A/C performing the same duty. Fore more info, visit www.seeleyinternational.com

@guringai

Ай бұрын

Of course I understand that fresh air is always best. The problem with evaporative air conditioners is that It's often difficult to seal the building when you don't want cold air. The other benefit of reverse cycle air conditioning is both heating and cooling comes from the same unit. How do you propose heating would happen with your unit doing the cooling?

Low energy consumption, but you would need constant source of water?

@seeleyinternationalemena2736

Ай бұрын

That is right, the unit needs water supply. Part of water will evaporate, part of the water will be collected in the tank. Water is recirculated until its salinity level (checked by the clever WaterManagement system) is detected as too high.

This isn't going to work in some large urban areas, with wide adoption the outside air will get very humid unless the prevailing wind is sufficient

@seeleyinternationalemena2736

Ай бұрын

We have proved efficiency of evaporative cooling technology in humid areas, such as Mediterranean coastal area and The Gulf, with excellent results. In fact, outdoor humidity is lower when the heat is at its highest, which is also when cooling is mostly needed. Also consider that Climate Wizard units do not add humidity to the air: for this reason they can be also used in pre-cooling application to improve the efficiency of an Air Handling Unit. Visit our website for more info www.seeleyinternational.com/eu/commercial/commercial-europe/

if this is true, then it's a goldmine.

@seeleyinternationalemena2736

Ай бұрын

It is definitely true. We display integrity in all that we do. Our products work and, when we make a claim, we can back it up. If you wish to learn more about the technology visit: www.seeleyinternational.com/eu/commercial/climate-wizard-indirect-evaporative-cooling-eu/

@50wledligthbulb

Ай бұрын

Yeah its true, but needs lots of air flow for the cold dry, hot humid output

@1islam1

Ай бұрын

​@@seeleyinternationalemena2736⚠️ God has said in the Quran: 🔵 { O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous - ( 2:21 ) 🔴 [He] who made for you the earth a bed [spread out] and the sky a ceiling and sent down from the sky, rain and brought forth thereby fruits as provision for you. So do not attribute to Allah equals while you know [that there is nothing similar to Him]. ( 2:22 ) 🔵 And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant [Muhammad], then produce a surah the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah, if you should be truthful. ( 2:23 ) 🔴 But if you do not - and you will never be able to - then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers.( 2:24 ) 🔵 And give good tidings to those who believe and do righteous deeds that they will have gardens [in Paradise] beneath which rivers flow. Whenever they are provided with a provision of fruit therefrom, they will say, "This is what we were provided with before." And it is given to them in likeness. And they will have therein purified spouses, and they will abide therein eternally. ( 2:25 ) ⚠️ Quran

@Cineenvenordquist

Ай бұрын

All you need are say, inexpensive heat exchange plates and efficient fans that don't suffer from humidity... That roof I just dunno, needs IR emission film, probs can't support agronomy or the heavier among solar panels. How'd they get it to support the cooler units?

@L4ki0

Ай бұрын

It is true, i can confirm because tried myself. All electricity needed is for fan to spin, nothing more. But problem is: it works only with dry intake air cooling it down while adding water to air. But, if intake air isn't dry and is hot - this machine will not work

I'm thinking of using 2 motors and a gearbox to make a fan faster so it evaporates faster and then more cooling

@seeleyinternationalemena2736

Ай бұрын

Hi, this is not exactly how this technology works, if you need more info contact us at www.seeleyinternational.com

from 37c to 17c . is a 20 ΔT . its technically impossible . + the temperature achieved is always restrained to : 1- the temperature of the air " outside " 2- the humidity level " relative humidity " both inside and outside . in high humid areas this system will always act as a fan . nothing more . + The dry channels . will only remain "dry" for a short period of time compared to the "Wet" ones . then , the system reaches equilibrium .

@seeleyinternationalemena2736

Ай бұрын

Hi, this system does not work exactly the way you have highlighted, this is an M-cycle (M=Maisotsenko) indirect evaporative cooler that can deliver the supply air below the dew point temperature of outside air. In the web there are a lot of scientific research on this topic. If you wish to get in touch to learn the technology in details, please contact us www.seeleyinternational.com

@50wledligthbulb

Ай бұрын

Its possible, its a feedback loop, like a 2 stage refrigeration unit.

@50wledligthbulb

Ай бұрын

How far below dew point does the output cold air from the systems can go?

It's basically cooler ,here in india it's used in home basically working on same principle 1/4 th price of ACs and environment friendly

@averagestudent4358

2 ай бұрын

But high humidity+ allergies

@chetanpatil9174

2 ай бұрын

@@averagestudent4358 so allergies with natural wind 🤔 , how

@seeleyinternationalemena2736

2 ай бұрын

@averagestudent4358 actually evaporative coolers are very good for health, as they only use 100% fresh outside air. They increase ventilation rates into the space. Plus, the coolers that you are seeing on screen, namely M-cycle indirect evaporative coolers DO NOT INCREASE HUMIDITY in the building they are cooling. Have you got more questions? We are here to answer! :)

@TheAllMightyGodofCod

Ай бұрын

Ah? ​@@chetanpatil9174 Can't you get allergies with wind?