It's crazy how we use those words today to sound "fancy" when in fact it was the opposite back then.

@VictoriaKimball

2 жыл бұрын

I was thinking the same thing! It also seems counterintuitive given what The Unit has taught us about the letter THORN being substituted by the Y.

@569times9

2 жыл бұрын

Bruv, I keep reminding my mates about þat!

@Primitarian

2 жыл бұрын

Which is why I find The Empire Strike Back so amusing when Darth Vader addresses the Emperor, "What is thy bidding," thereby revealing himself to be a Quaker or on buddy-buddy terms with his boss.

@Kromiball

2 жыл бұрын

ðat* or ꝥ

@Jay_Johnson

2 жыл бұрын

@@Primitarian clearly vader and palpatine were besties.

Thou hast done most marvelous well in thy presentation, and I thank thee.

@gunarsmiezis9321

Жыл бұрын

He has made one mistake tho, believing that conjugation is bad when in reality there is nothing more wonderful for the ability of expression and perfect clarity in listening.

@FrogeniusW.G.

Жыл бұрын

Sounds very similar to german: "Du (thou) hast getan (done) ... in Deiner (thy) Präsentation, danke Dir (thank thee)!"

@streetwind.

Жыл бұрын

@@FrogeniusW.G. Should be "thank thee" at the end.

@costamcostam8961

Жыл бұрын

@@FrogeniusW.G. Damn for real it sounds so similar

@FrogeniusW.G.

Жыл бұрын

@@streetwind. Yes. That's what I meant. ..Was distrakted by the many brackets and everything!! 😅 Thanks.

I am not a native English speaker, but for me these forms were always clear to me. It follows the same pattern as first person words... I, Thou -> subject Me, Thee -> object My, Thy Mine, Thine I am surprised this was not mentioned

@tunistick8044

Жыл бұрын

because it only rhymes with the first singular pronoun

@MRVIDEOMASTER-yw1qw

Жыл бұрын

God loves you all! The Father sent the Son to die for you and your sins so that you could experience freedom to the fullest! Believe in Christ's death and resurrection (which sealed the work done on the cross) for your salvation and the forgiveness of sins! Amen! God loves you all! The Father sent the Son to die for you and your sins so that you could experience freedom to the fullest! Believe in Christ's death and resurrection (which sealed the work done on the cross) for your salvation and the forgiveness of sins! Amen! God bless you all, I will keep you in my prayers!

@irishmanfromengland25

Жыл бұрын

I realized this recently and my mind was completely blown.

@ErikOosterwal

Жыл бұрын

Too many native English speakers use "I," "me," and "myself" incorrectly, so relating "thee" and "thine" with "me" and "mine" would probably have caused even greater confusion. It's remarkable to me that those people who incorrectly use "I" instead of "me" never seem to have a problem with "we" and "us." 🤔

@irishmanfromengland25

Жыл бұрын

@@ErikOosterwal how do you mean?

Can we take a moment to appreciate how Rob takes his fantastic pedantry outdoors? Nothing says "dedication" like standing out in the cold to deliver another fascinating history lesson. Love this guy!

@peaceonearth8693

Жыл бұрын

Or, his wife is tired of his KZread project.

@babboon5764

Жыл бұрын

@@peaceonearth8693 Weren't that 'er stalkin' 'im int' wood sithee?

@royalroyal2210

Жыл бұрын

Ye shalt sprechen Merci for thine dedicacion

@Gribbo9999

Жыл бұрын

Talking about not wanting to use "you" because singular might be confused for plural. We now have the use of "they" to avoid the gender issues of using he/she.. I still find this use of they singular confusing and not at all natural but I expect we'll get used to it.

@patricianunes3521

8 ай бұрын

The previous correct English was to use he, unless you knew the person was a she. It was not trying to insult women either. A chairmen rather than chair, unless it was known that the chairman was indeed a woman. The Woman’s Institute would only have a chairwoman

An aunt of mine (from County Durham) told me of a moment in her youth when, being reprimanded by her boss for addressing him as "thou", replied defiantly "Divent thee thou me, and I'll not thou thee". I thought that was an absolute gem.

@RobWords

2 жыл бұрын

That's a beaut

@soal159

2 жыл бұрын

modern translation: "don't you thou me and I will not thou you."

@KlipsenTube

2 жыл бұрын

The first "thee" is incorrect - it should be "thou".

@k.umquat8604

2 жыл бұрын

@@KlipsenTube No, since the first thee is actually part of the verb "thee-thou"

@KlipsenTube

2 жыл бұрын

@@k.umquat8604 I see your point, but it would be more compelling if it was spelled in one word or with a hyphen, and it would be “thou-thee”, stenciled from the French “tutoyer”, not thee-thou. And the second part would be missing a ”thee”, if the supposed verb is supposed to be used there, too.

In Ireland we use "ye" as a plural of "you"! We have no formal versions (don't think formal versions exist in Irish either) it's just nice to be able to differentiate between singular and plural!

@eivindkaisen6838

3 жыл бұрын

And sometimes youse use youse for the plural (puns intended).

@una_10bananas

3 жыл бұрын

@@eivindkaisen6838 hahaha true

@gato-junino

2 жыл бұрын

Why not use ye in American and British English?

@una_10bananas

2 жыл бұрын

@@gato-junino I don't know they just don't haha

@gato-junino

2 жыл бұрын

@@una_10bananas , alright. It could be useful.

As someone who's currently learning Spanish, that has formal and informal forms, I too really appreciate the simplicity of just having "you" in English. It removes a whole set of parameters when trying to speak and gives the ability to really focus on expressing whatever you want to say without risking offending your interlocutor. Much easier.

@ylenrams1912

Жыл бұрын

I am a Spanish speaker and when I started learning English it was very stressing to use "you" with adults or teachers, because I felt I was not respecting them. Rob has just put at peace my respectful teenager when he explained you is the formal way.

@diarmuidkuhle8181

Жыл бұрын

German speaker here. It really is quite straightforward. You use the formal with older people, those higher in status (like your boss at work), anyone in an official capacity and strangers. The informal address is reserved for family, friends and your peers (until you reach adulthood).

@lonestarr1490

Жыл бұрын

@@diarmuidkuhle8181 EXCEPT on the internet. Using the formal version on the internet is considered extremely rude.

@mep6302

Жыл бұрын

@@lonestarr1490 That's not even true

@karlwilhelmmeinert7592

Жыл бұрын

@@lonestarr1490 I strongly disagree.

I love how 'thou' and its conjugation make so much sense in the context of Germanic languages compared to today's you. Like in High German, the ending for 2.P.Sg. verbs ist -st as well. So when 'you can' becomes 'thou canst' again in English, it is much closer to High German 'Du kannst'.

When I was taking German in high school, it was explained to me that you used the "du" form with God because there was an intimacy there. I assumed that English probably had the same theological reason for using the "thou" form when addressing God.

@zebulon9307

2 жыл бұрын

That´s right! God is oftentimes adressed as "our father" or "my father" which perfectly justifies "du". A formal "Sie" would be completely out of place. We hear that the honorific form of you was/is used in French. I´m not shure if that is still done today.

@m0llux

2 жыл бұрын

In French, it is the same! God (Dieu) is always addressed as "tu".

@farmergiles1065

2 жыл бұрын

Yes. It's also a recognition of how God deals with us on a personal level, not requiring a "you" as the powers who "Lord it over us" would do.

@sergeypiano

2 жыл бұрын

In addition, Hebrew knows no form of respectful "you", hence I guess this feeling of communication intimacy between man and God is established hereby as well.

@OlliHazard

2 жыл бұрын

I think there was actually a medieval understanding that a king was viewed as the father of his subjects (Sire). The more distanced form of address only came later.

I really want to see "thou/thee" make a come back in every day English by the commonfolk.

@sammasson3116

2 жыл бұрын

Tha's never been to Barnsley or Rotherham? I'll si'thee there!

@MadJack1

Жыл бұрын

they are though. The KJV bible uses words like this, so it is often mentioned this way if scripture is being quoted

@TokyoXtreme

Жыл бұрын

@@human7491 but thou must!

@canox6017

Жыл бұрын

Please don't. Learning English was hard enough I don't want to learn how to use "thou"

@MadJack1

Жыл бұрын

@@canox6017 if thou hath already learnt English, this shalt not truly be that hard to learn!

Well Tha says thev disappeared, but I was raised in North Yorkshire and I’m older than thee and we still use them. Having said that, what a marvellous video. I enjoyed it immensely. Thank you Sir.

As one who was born and raised in a Quaker family that still uses plain speak as a family tradition, your (thy :) ) explanation was very interesting. We never used the word "thou" at all, though - we used thee as the subject form, too. Never knew of the subject (thou)/object (thee) distinction.

@susankelemen9764

Жыл бұрын

Me too

I like the traditional Yorkshire saying "Don't thee thou me as I thous thee". It is used to put somebody in their place who has insufficient social status to use the word thou to address the person using this phrase.

@gunarsmiezis9321

Жыл бұрын

Makes no sense, if one is alone he is refered to thou, a crowd is adressed as you.

@chrism7969

Жыл бұрын

@@gunarsmiezis9321 The structure of languages make limited sense. They are always made up of inconsistent grammatical rules. Something is true until there is an exception. Interestingly modern German still has the difference between formal and informal forms of address. Du is the informal form of you singular (Thou). Sie is the formal version of you (Thee). However, Sie is also the equivalent of she and also used for they and them and her.

@gunarsmiezis9321

Жыл бұрын

@@chrism7969 "They are always made up of inconsistent grammatical rules." Nop, never seen any inconsistency in my language. (other than peoples lazynes casuing -is to be reduced to -s which is different from true -s in how its conjugated since its still conjugated as if it was an -is except for the genetive which doesnt exist and is just identical to the nominative. BUT this is peoples lazyness and habbit, if one had the determination he could speak without any 6. declination endings and instead use the proper 2. declination (I actually do this more often than not))

@arionthedeer7372

Жыл бұрын

@@gunarsmiezis9321 Yes, languages are made up of inconsistent grammar rules. Try learning a different language other than English, maybe? It is not intuitive...

@gunarsmiezis9321

Жыл бұрын

@@arionthedeer7372 I can speak latviski, english, russijan and german... English do to its creole language is the only inconsistent one.

I wish we still had these older features in english. It would make learning other European languages much easier because these concepts wouldn't feel so strange and foreign to start with.

@Anvilshock

Жыл бұрын

Maybe if such intricacy was taught, people would actually appreciate when they have a mistake corrected instead of becoming disproportionately exasperated as well as violently defensive of their god-given right to spell and speak as ignorantly wrong as they please with incontestable impunity.

@MargoB

Жыл бұрын

@@Anvilshock T'was excellently put, friend!

@Rynewulf

Жыл бұрын

@@Anvilshock Considering we didn't even have baseline standards for English spelling well into the 1800s and only after we saw it succeed in France and a united Germany, don't hold your breath

@Anvilshock

Жыл бұрын

@@Rynewulf Not the point, though, nor is it an excuse. One, we're not in "well into the 1800s" anymore. Information is embarrassingly easy to access and retrieve. Two, spelling and grammar rules weren't established for no reason, and certainly not for the reason of having something to lecture other people over. They are commonly agreed-upon tools to facilitate efficient and effective communication. Wielding them reflects your interest in that communication. If you spell like arse, you're signalling, "I don't really care whether anyone understands me, I'm just blurting out what I feel to satisfy my ego." And if you don't really care, you might as well not bother at all. Would save you, and more importantly your unfortunate witnesses, a lot of hassle.

@kellymcbright5456

Жыл бұрын

Not that much of a problem. The other languages take the same direction and the formalities get out of fashion more and more. I know some germans living in Sweden, where just one approach lives. And all they love to give up the distinction. They all use just "du" in their german conversation just like the Swedes around them do.

When I came to know people in County Cork, I was startled when they referred to me, even in writing as 'ye.' But sometimes they would use 'you' and now I see that was when it was an object. I never hear the ye in any other part of Ireland, but it does sound quite charming in County Cork. Thanks for explaining how ye and you are used.

@oldnelson4298

Жыл бұрын

Greatest city in da world bai

@MisterBones2910

Жыл бұрын

"Aye, fair play to ye bud"

Жыл бұрын

Oh... now it all makes sense! I thought I was mishearing 😅

@Chris-mf1rm

Жыл бұрын

I noticed that when I first went to Cork. They seemed to really draw out the ye. Yeee.

@KeithMcormack895

7 ай бұрын

Ye should know we say ye in kerry too

I'm late to this one but have something to share. Having studied German I found it easier to understand Shakespeare because of the similarities to German. The "st" on the end of the verbs comes directly from German as does thou, thee, thine: Ich, Mich, Mein = I, Me, Mine Du, Dich, Dein = Thou, Thee, Thine (you, yours, yours (or sometimes 'yourn')) "Thou canst not go" = "Du kannst nicht gehen". And English does have a plural for "you" at least in parts of the US where we say "y'all".

As a German , I just use „thou, thy, thee“ as I use „du, dein, dich“ in my mother tongue .

@RobWords

3 жыл бұрын

Thou dost! Das machst Du!

@groapexds3333

2 жыл бұрын

Thou dost - Du tust. :)

@desmorgens3120

2 жыл бұрын

nom. thou gen. thy/thine dat. thee acc. thee poss.pron. thine refl.pron. thyself nom. ye gen. your dat. you acc. you poss.pron. yours refl.pron. yourselves nom. I gen. my/mine dat. me acc. me poss.pron. mine refl.pron. myself

@desmorgens3120

2 жыл бұрын

_TO BE_ _modus indicativus_ praesens I am thou art we are ye are he is she is it is they are praeteritum I was thou wast we were ye were he was she was it was they were _modus conjunctivus_ praesens I be thou be/beest/bist we be ye be he be she be it be they be praeteritum I were thou wert we were ye were he were she were it were they were _modus imperativus_ be (thou)! be (ye)! *TO HAVE* _modus indicativus_ praesens I have thou hast we have ye have he hath she hath it hath they have praeteritum I had thou hadst we had ye had he had she had it had they had _modus conjunctivus_ praesens I have thou have we have ye have he have she have it have they have praeteritum I had thou had we had ye had he had she had it had they had _modus imperativus_ have (thou)! have (ye)! *TO DRINK* _modus indicativus_ praesens I drink thou drink(e)st we drink ye drink he drinketh she drinketh it drinketh they drink praeteritum I drank thou drank(e)st we drank ye drank he drank she drank it drank they drank _modus conjunctivus_ praesens I drink thou drink we drink ye drink he drink she drink it drink they drink praeteritum I drank thou drank we drank ye drank he drank she drank it drank they drank _modus imperativus_ drink (thou)! drink (ye)!

@desmorgens3120

2 жыл бұрын

@@RobWordsThe word "dost" is a modal verb, "doest" is full verb: Thou dost not sleep. (modal verb) Thou doest all work. (full verb)

You are like the Vsauce of the English language

@reesaweesahh

2 жыл бұрын

@Camaleón 🇩🇴 THYNE English language

@Perririri

2 жыл бұрын

He just needs to grow and sell his beard!

@vikingsailorboy

2 жыл бұрын

This guy is wayyyy better than VSauce. VSauce goes on annoying rants and goes off on so many side topics for 30 minutes he completely loses interest.

@josefabian7586

2 жыл бұрын

He would rather be "þe Vsauce of þe English language". ...or would he?

@farmergiles1065

2 жыл бұрын

Thou canst not be calling him saucy, canst thou? ;)

I know this is an older video but with regard to YE when it has the meaning of THE (i.e. when used in phrases like "Ye olde shoppe") that Y is not actually a Y. It is a Old Norse letter that was called thorn (Þ) in medieval English and was pronounced like the modern TH (it's still pronounced like that in Icelandic). When it's written in Gothic script it kinda looks like a Y, hence the confusion. So "Ye olde shoppe" should be actually pronounced "THE olde shoppe". However, like Rob said, when ye is used as a pronoun, it's pronounced like a regular letter Y.

@user-gg2dt3fo5m

Жыл бұрын

That's a rather different issue though ...

Can't believe this channel only has 100k followers. His level of research, intellect and subtle humor needs to be shared and viewed by more people. Keep up the good work Rob! We love thee (or thou). 🤔

I’m going to have to send this to my English Linguistics teacher from Yorkshire 😂

@RobWords

3 жыл бұрын

Oh no, DON'T!!

@ipixel1475

3 жыл бұрын

@@RobWords Haha don’t worry I won’t 😂

@eicelandicchicken484

3 жыл бұрын

@@ipixel1475 oh.

@elwolf8536

2 жыл бұрын

@@RobWords why not ?😄

@douglascrystal3837

2 жыл бұрын

@@elwolf8536 They still use tha thee in yorkshire, but they say "tha is"or "tha's" instead of "Thou art"

I am a Quaker who no longer uses the "plain speech" (few Quakers do), but I know some who do. One point you didn't mention is that in American Quaker plain speech "thee", rather than "thou" is often used for the subject of a sentence. As in a sign in my meetinghouse which says "Thank thee for not smoking". In this usage, "is" is used ratherthan "art". For example "Thee is welcome, Friend". Some folks encountering this usage think it shows ignorance of proper 17th century grammar, but it was actually the usual Quaker speech pattern among American Quaker communities throughout the 18th and 19th centuries.

@elizabethcarver5151

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for that! I've often seen Quakers quoted as apparently being ungrammatical ('thee is' and so on) and wondered whether they are being misreported or whether it was a genuine aspect of the dialect. I'm glad to have that cleared up.

@danielcrafter9349

Жыл бұрын

Just because it was actually what was being used hundreds of years ago - doesn't make it "correct"; it's still grammatically bad as explained in the vid Thee is = you is, rather than "you ARE"

@egbront1506

Жыл бұрын

"Thank thee" is correct, though. Thee is the direct object of the verb to thank.

@saftobulle

Жыл бұрын

@@danielcrafter9349 no you’re wrong. If it’s the way the dialect has evolved, it’s the correct grammar for the dialect.

@richaccetta-evans9941

Жыл бұрын

@@egbront1506 True. I shouldn't have used "Thank thee" as an example. A better example would be "Thee speaks my mind" or "Thee is doing well."

While reading Shakespeare in class, it sort was revealed to me that these words are similar if not the same to how in Spanish "you" is used. I had Spanish class before English (literature), I literally put what I learned in one class and made me read or understand Shakespeare better. Thou ~ tú Thee/Thy ~ te/ti Art ~ eres

Interesting that Brazilian Portuguese has had the same shift. The polite form of 'you' has become the standard.

I’m 62 years old and was brought up in 'homes for the elderly' in Lancashire. Thee, thine and thy were often still used by the elderly (often born and raised in the 19th century.), though probably not following any grammatical rules at all. As a proud Lancastrian I’m all for anyone butchering the Yorkshire accent, thems don’t talk posh like us do.

@gunarsmiezis9321

Жыл бұрын

Yes they where follwing gramatical rules, people in their native tongue follow all the rules without even thinking about it.

@Sanguivore

Жыл бұрын

@@gunarsmiezis9321 As an American, that certainly doesn’t hold true for any American I’ve ever encountered, so I doubt it does for much of the rest of the world as well.

@gunarsmiezis9321

Жыл бұрын

@@Sanguivore Its true for all americans, else they could not speak.

@Sanguivore

Жыл бұрын

@@gunarsmiezis9321 Just because someone is speaking, does not mean they are speaking their language "correctly" in a prescriptivist sense. Intelligibility does not inherently indicate one is following the grammatical rules of their language, and therefore actual spoken language tends to be descriptive rather than prescriptive (assuming one doesn't come from a culture where speaking a language prescriptively is a value).

@gunarsmiezis9321

Жыл бұрын

@@Sanguivore When one is speaking his native tongue he is speaking following all the rules of his native tongue. its just how humans are.

Now I finally understand. In Spanish the lord's prayer says: Padre Nuestro que estás en los cielos. (Estás is the familiar form because God is close to you) It's exactly the same in English: Our father who art in Heaven. Excellent explanation! Though art an excellent English teacher.

@desmorgens3120

2 жыл бұрын

though = although thou = you

@desmorgens3120

2 жыл бұрын

_TO BE_ _modus indicativus_ praesens I am thou art we are ye are he is she is it is they are praeteritum I was thou wast we were ye were he was she was it was they were _modus conjunctivus_ praesens I be thou be/beest/bist we be ye be he be she be it be they be praeteritum I were thou wert we were ye were he were she were it were they were _modus imperativus_ be (thou)! be (ye)! *TO HAVE* _modus indicativus_ praesens I have thou hast we have ye have he hath she hath it hath they have praeteritum I had thou hadst we had ye had he had she had it had they had _modus conjunctivus_ praesens I have thou have we have ye have he have she have it have they have praeteritum I had thou had we had ye had he had she had it had they had _modus imperativus_ have (thou)! have (ye)! *TO DRINK* _modus indicativus_ praesens I drink thou drink(e)st we drink ye drink he drinketh she drinketh it drinketh they drink praeteritum I drank thou drank(e)st we drank ye drank he drank she drank it drank they drank _modus conjunctivus_ praesens I drink thou drink we drink ye drink he drink she drink it drink they drink praeteritum I drank thou drank we drank ye drank he drank she drank it drank they drank _modus imperativus_ drink (thou)! drink (ye)!

@francisdec1615

2 жыл бұрын

To complicate things more it was usually 'thou beest' in spoken language and not 'thou art'. Compare with 'du bist' in German.

@gunarsmiezis9321

Жыл бұрын

@@francisdec1615 Foolish germans tried to bring that nonsense in to my language, it all got reveresed by the nationalist inteligencia (and the population becoming atheist).

@joshuaespinoza8325

Жыл бұрын

..santificado sea tu nombre Use of tu, improper form. Rather thsn usted, "santificado sea el nombre de usted" or su

I watched this video when it first came out... and now that I've played Baldur's Gate 3 and listened to the way Withers talks and (incorrectly) uses "thou", I'll never forgive you for educating me.

I must point out that the "informal" for God also prevails in Hindi. Hindi has three forms for "you": "tu" is singular, "tum" is plural ( and then there is the extra polite and formal "aap", probably due to Persian influence, also conjugated in the plural). "Tu" is only used for intimate friends and in slang and when abusing someone far, far below your station, and, curiously perhaps, between lovers when they communicate privately (as in French) - but never in polite conversation. It is considered very, very impolite to use "tu" - so much so that those learning the language can safely omit it altogether, and focus on "tum" and "aap". But strangely, this very "impolite" tu is used in two other cases - when speaking to one's mother (never ever to one's father, unless one wants to be spanked!) - and when addressing God. (No influence of Tyndale here, yet the end result is similar).

@anjananaturelover2083

4 ай бұрын

Maybe in other Indian languages too; I know that in Bengali , we have three forms for ‘you’ in the singular and three in the plural . 🙏

I always assumed the English YOU leaves out the formalities by referring to everyone as in an informal context. My world just turned upside down.

@francisdec1615

2 жыл бұрын

You is cognate with the old Swedish I and the German ihr. Both of those are plural forms, and both also used to be the formal way to speak to unknown people.

@Seashelish

2 жыл бұрын

@@francisdec1615 I wouldn't have guessed the connection with ihr. Many languages are using formal addressing nowadays more than informal as I think about it. In German, French, Spanish the equivalent is widely used in daily speach

@allanrichardson9081

2 жыл бұрын

English “you” spreads the formal and plural down to the familiar and singular as a way of showing formal respect to everyone. In the process, formal BECAME singular; as we say in engineering, if EVERY project is top priority, then NO project is top priority, since they are all equally “top.”

@cactiguide

2 жыл бұрын

@@allanrichardson9081 or in the words of syndrome “when everyone is super, no one will be”

@itskarl7575

Жыл бұрын

@@francisdec1615 The English formal tongue is to use the plural version of the pronoun. In German and Scandinavian, it's a bit more complicated. The formal "you" is, in German, "Sie" - which means "they". In other words, if I am using the polite form in speaking directly to you, I refer to you in the third person, plural.

I thank thee for that. I have never previously felt quite certain about the declension of thou and it was good to hear about the ending -est. I think the Amish also use Thee and thou on a regular basis. I am English and when I did my National service I was stationed in Germany and made friends with a German family. My father came to visit me and I took him to meet them. My father was a scientist who learnt to read and speak German pretty well, but as he needed it for his work (science) he had never bothered with "du". My friends has a six year old daughter and my father spoke to her and she look absolutely astonished, dropped the toy she was holding and rushed to her mother crying: "Mutti! Mutti! Er Siest mir! Er SIEST mir!!"

@SvenjaTenkes

Жыл бұрын

No, this is false! Es heißt richtig: „Er siezt mich!" These letters are to correct: sieZt (siezt) and miCH (mich, instead of „mir").

@CL-go2ji

Жыл бұрын

Ogott ist das suss! 🥰 Ich hoffe sie war eher stolz als erschrocken.

@Taricus

Жыл бұрын

?????

@schoo9256

Жыл бұрын

Can you please explain the punchline?

@CL-go2ji

Жыл бұрын

@@SvenjaTenkes I´m guessing that the child not being far enough along to consistently use accusitive and dative correctly, but still understanding the (heavy) meaning of "siezen" is part of the fun.

Great explanation on the singular emphasis of the reference to God using Thou in the Bible!! “Thou shalt have no other gods before me!” I always thought it was because God is our Father and thou is used with family members ❤

@cloudkitt

Жыл бұрын

That was always my assumption, too.

@karlwilhelmmeinert7592

Жыл бұрын

In German god is called ,,du'' too.

@giovannibertolini1005

Жыл бұрын

Using the "informal" you with God is common to Italian Spanish, French German Russian and I have no doubt many more languages. I believe the reason becomes clear if instead of the formal form indicating "respect" we think of it as the speaker taking a "(respectfully) distant" stance, a granting and a taking of a kind of "personal space". This is why the informal is also used for aggressive rudeness -- it is like stepping right up into someones face. In times more sensitive to verbal nuance, indicating distance by using the "polite" form could be used as a kind of cold aloof rejection of closeness. When addressing (the Christian) God, there is no pretense of "personal space" or distance.

@allanrichardson3135

Жыл бұрын

The German theologian Martin Buber referred to a relationship of mutual respect, treating the other person as a PERSON, as “I-thou” (I assume “Ich-dü” in German), while a relationship based on power, treating other persons as THINGS, was “I-it” downward, or “I-Your __” upward.

I thank thee for sharing thy thoughts on the subject!

My first exposure to thee/thou/thy/etc. was from going to church as a kid, so I didn’t realize it was informal until we learned about Shakespeare in high school. As a kid, I thought it was just the one-and-only way they said “you,” but I did think it was weird that the Bible also used “you” sometimes. Thank you for clearing up this lifetime of confusion, because I’m sure I’m not the only person who encountered it in that order!

English took to using only the formal "you", whereas in Sweden we had a language reform in the 60s to use the informal "du" with everyone. But our formal language was a little different in that "ni" (plural) was usually used towards employees, subordinates, etc. If one wished to be respectful in Sweden back in the day, you would adress people by title or sometimes (if a married woman) a feminine version of your husband's title. "Would Miss Emily want some more tea?" "Welcome, Majoress, please sit down." So "ni" sounds condecending to some who lived during that time. In fact, when some young people who've been learning French or German in school wish to be polite to older people and use "ni" (plural form) they'll sometimes get an earful about how they didn't go through the du-reform to be called "ni"!

@markvoelker6620

2 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/rH2KltKohb2ngdI.html

@georgielancaster1356

2 жыл бұрын

That explains the knights who say Ni... I cannot believe I am first to bring up Monty Python... I am a bit embarrassed.

@markvoelker6620

2 жыл бұрын

@@georgielancaster1356 Hmm … did you watch the video above?

@georgielancaster1356

2 жыл бұрын

@@markvoelker6620 Sort of but I was busy. Did I miss the reference? It's midnight here and I have wild possums on my bed and cats having hissy fits and I just had to rescue my precious avocado from a possum. Who knew possums are middle class and favour avocado smash on toast? If they are hanging out for espresso, I can't afford a machine and those expensive little coffee containers. It's tea or instant coffee here. Actually, it's approaching 1 am. I am losing the night!

@markvoelker6620

2 жыл бұрын

@@georgielancaster1356 Ha! Yes possums eat avocados!

Love that he's teaching us in a snow covered park, feeling cold, but still focused at the task at hand.

Thou hast given me clear insight in the usage of these words. I cannot thank thee enough. 😊

I like it, that you don't distinguish between formal and informal "you", but I really find useful to distinguish between singular and plural "you".

@WGGplant

Жыл бұрын

many dialects have their own way of doing so "ya'll", "youse", etc.. i suggest starting the trend urself, in ur own dialect. be the "ye" u want to see in the world

@SantiagoLopez-fq4eb

Жыл бұрын

@@WGGplant It was just a comment about the lack of that in standard English. My language is not English and I don't need any particular trend for that distinction. My language already has it.

@WGGplant

Жыл бұрын

@@SantiagoLopez-fq4eb ✨be the "ye" u wish to see in this world✨

Very interesting! Use of thee and thou by Quakers is mostly continued today by the Ohio Quakers. North American Quakers also had a quirk that continues today. They often used "thee" as nominative and objective (e.g., How is thee doing today?), although published documents retained the use of "thou" for the nominative case. Friends who use "thee" today will mostly only use "thou" when speaking during meeting partially because they mostly quote from the KJV. Today, the use of thee/thy/thine by Quakers is partially a reminder that we retain a special spiritual fellowship, and we rarely use it with non-members. One way a Quaker might express unhappiness with another Quaker is to call that person "you", suggesting that the spiritual connection has been broken.

@scout8145

2 жыл бұрын

Wow, I didn’t know about that last part, that’s really interesting! But it makes sense-if “thou” signals an in-group, then a pointed “you” can be used to throw shade at somebody

@thomaswilliams2273

2 жыл бұрын

I have heard that the reason the Quakers used thou was because the Bible refers to God as thou, so to call others you while calling God thou, or in some cases considering thou to be an insult to yourself, would be in a sense placing yourself or others above God. It makes sense, and with the change in language where people think thee and thou is holy language it makes sense to loosen up about it.

@queenmotherhane4374

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for this! A peculiarity of the Quaker use of “thee” as subject pronoun is the way it uses third person singular verb forms, such as “thee is.”

@goodmaro

Жыл бұрын

I've been explaining for years to people (without its ever having needed to be explained to me, just from my knowledge of languages) that the Quakers tutoie (tutoient?) each other because they're the Society of Friends.

I love these videos! Thank you for making them. I'm a writer who is fascinated by language. Every time that I have a question about something linguistic, I check and see if you'e made a video about it. Usually, you do not disappoint. Thanks for all of the time, effort, research and humor that you put into these videos.

As a writer I did not know just how much I needed this information thou hast taught me and I thank thee. Thumbs up.

Your videos have got me hooked! I wish we hadn't lost our single/plural differentiation. I'm all for the way "you" is slowly evolving into "yous" and "y'all".

@borkabrak

Жыл бұрын

It's not evolving *into* it (I hope), but the lack of a current 2nd person plural is being filled by such things as "y'all", and I'm all for it.

@goombacraft

Жыл бұрын

@@borkabrak well, "youse" is only growing more common in Northern English, and American English is 100% going to take more and more features from AAVE in the future - including y'all

@orthohawk1026

Жыл бұрын

@@borkabrak Just adopt the Quaker plain speech "thee is" pattern

@alonsoACR

Жыл бұрын

@@goombacraft I always thought y'all was borrowed into AAVE from the Dixie dialect and is not original of it.

I’ve just found you channel and it’s one of my top 10 favourite channels on KZread 1- the editing is amazing 2- the audio quality is great 3- the topics are very well picked and excellently explained

@RobWords

3 жыл бұрын

This is very generous, thank you!

@user-bx8sj6qm3w

3 жыл бұрын

And the humor is actually funny

@Fledhyris

Жыл бұрын

And the diction is very pleasing to the ear! Plus that wonderful smile. If he's like that generally and not just on camera, he must be a joy to be around.

At last! Ever since learning that "thou" was the singular/informal second person, I’ve wondered why they said "hallowed be thy name" and so forth. Many thanks for the most satisfying reason I’ve yet heard.

I can’t get enough of these videos, where has this channel been all my life

Stripping all those words down to just "you" does have some consequences, though. It makes the plurality of the second person pronoun unclear in many cases. Whether this issue is the full justification, or not, it certainly facilitates usages that sound strange to many like (in the US) you all, y'all, you ones, "yunz", you guys, etc.

@DataLal

2 жыл бұрын

You forgot "youse", as in "youse fellas". Admittedly, it's not exactly common now.

@ruralsquirrel5158

2 жыл бұрын

You beat me to it. The second person plural possessive and personal pronouns are sorely missing in modern English, and it is totally obvious in the fact that so many people are struggling to find a solution, but it eludes them. Now we're stuck with bizarre creations like you mentioned. I've heard "all y'all" too.

@conniesobotka4491

2 жыл бұрын

@@ruralsquirrel5158 Yes, because y’all has been around long enough that it too is morphing into singular use. Arrrgghhh, ENGLISH!

@GeckoHiker

2 жыл бұрын

You forgot "you'all" and "all you'all" from the Native Floridian dialect. We do not slur our words with the NASCAR accent. All you'all will hear every vowel and syllable, plus all the Rs.

@cactiguide

2 жыл бұрын

@@ruralsquirrel5158 I don’t think it is that sore or difficult for native English speakers, but certainly challenges those who grew up with it in their native language when they try to learn English

In Urdu we also have formal and informal versions of you Āp آپ (formal) Tum تُم (semi formal) Tu تُو (informal) And we also use Tu to refer to God in literature for the same reason, unambiguous singularity.

@feliciagaffney1998

2 жыл бұрын

What is "semi-formal"? Is that like a classmate you don't really know but have classes with them?

@slohmann1572

2 жыл бұрын

In my part of Brazil (south) we also use Tu as the informal you. Probably same origin as both are indo-European languages. “Você” is semi formal - you would use that with people you don’t know well, in corporate environments, etc. And “o Senhor (masc) / a Senhora (fem)” are used in formal situations - with authorities or elders (it’s like I treat my grandma).

@ellagardener538

2 жыл бұрын

@@feliciagaffney1998 Yes, we use this when talking to strangers, talking to someone who is slightly older then you and you want to be polite. Even then tum can be considered slightly crass. I use tum only talking with my family members. I prefer to use aap. It’s more polite and refined.

@ellagardener538

2 жыл бұрын

Tu was also used to indiciate intimacy when referring to God. Often time in the English language thou is too cold or too distant which is why God is often precieved as being foreboding. However in Urdu when using Tu God is perceived to be more loving, more close someone who is more paternal rather then being cold and distant. It’s interesting how language can change perception.

Another great video. When I teach French to my adult learners, I do mention thee and thou as an example of tu and toi. And I cite some Shakespearean sonnets to illustrate how he uses each and why, "... Is it Thy will that keeps open..." or, "What is your substance, whereof are you made?" and they are always so surprised! But I did not know about ye and you! So thank thee!

I’m so glad there are people like you in the world who actually knows this stuff 🤣. In high school I absolutely hated English class, but learning the exact same facts thru KZread 15 years later is truly enjoyable 😁

I grew up in an area (near Philadelphia) with a large number of Quakers, and my dad would refer to the Quakers greeting you by saying, "How is thee?" This usage now kind of makes sense to me. Thanks!

@kellymcbright5456

Жыл бұрын

Nay, it would be right "how art thou?" "How is thee" is wrong in a double manner...

@susankelemen9764

Жыл бұрын

@@kellymcbright5456 But that is how we speak the plain language in the South Jersey/Philly area!

@kellymcbright5456

Жыл бұрын

@@susankelemen9764 crazy

One thing to note is that Shakespeare isn't always consistent in his use of thou/you; maybe it was weakening already or more than one person was doing the writing (!) The KJ Bible follows the old singular / plural distinction rather than class, and its language usage in general is about 50 years behind the times since a large part was nicked from Tyndale without attribution.

@RobWords

3 жыл бұрын

Astute as ever. Thank you. The thou/you distinction was definitely weakening by Shakespeare’s day.

@scotthargrove990

2 жыл бұрын

Not sure about this, because I'm not an expert on Shakespeare, but I've read that "thou" had become a way of insulting someone almost more than simply being informal, so that a change of address from YOU to THOU within a conversation shows aggression on the part of the speaker rather than inconsistency on the part of Shakespeare. That is to say, it was intentional.

@francisdec1615

2 жыл бұрын

@@scotthargrove990 That's probably true. 'Du' is normally seen as an insult if it's said to an adult German person that you don't know, and the same used to be the case in Swedish.

@bigaspidistra

2 жыл бұрын

@@scotthargrove990 yes there is some use of thou as an insult in Shakespeare alongside "Sirrah".

@greasher926

2 жыл бұрын

In Russian, God is also addressed with the informal “you” ты (ti), I’m not sure exactly why but I think it’s also to emphasize God’s singularity since the formal “you” вы (vi) can also be used in the plural.

My father's grandparents, Wiltshire country folks, used thee and thou in daily speech. If there was a quarrel between them, the grandmother would say to her husband "don't thee and thou me"!

After living in Spain for many years I came to appreciate the formal and informal. Respect has gone out the window in English speaking countries, the formal tends to corrects that. It is also a handy way to let someone know you're displeased if you switch to formal, but nothing need be said which might cause unpleasantness

I'm pleased to hear you point out that thou and thee still exist in a number of dialects. Only recently I was reading something (maybe even another KZread video) which claimed they died out centuries ago. Well I'm sure my hearing isn't that bad when listening to (e.g.) broad South Wiltshire. It's a shame these dialects are becoming rarer these days though.

@paulcharleton3208

7 ай бұрын

Still used every day in the natural speech of the people of Pontefract in West Yorkshire but not quite (as Rob pointed out) using the formal forms. Thou is usually rendered as "tha" however thee is usually the same. So for example to tell someone they are a bit rude you might say "tha's a rait un thee". Or another example "have you quite finished?" Is " 'as tha dun?"

It's not just "informal" It's a more intimate, closer relationship which would use thee, thou, thine Quakers believe they are in a close relationship with each other and with God, so they use the informal

One of the more informative and fascinating videos that I have seen in long time. It reminded me of the southern US usage of "y'all" which is plural but is used with one person ONLY when the speaker means to include someone else when speaking to one person.

After having learned German for about 4 years now, I found this video incredibly intuitive. I wouldn't mind going back to that. It'd probably be easier for non native English speakers to learn too.

I’m so lucky I got this in my recommended !! Educational and entertaining and you can tell you love what you’re doing ! Keep up the good work

@RobWords

3 жыл бұрын

That's a very nice thing to say. Thank you!

For me as a German I have absolute no stress to follow the conjugation and declination tables. Makes total sense to me. :D But I have to admit that we had the formal/informal pronoun discussion at work just yesterday. XD I am working in a medical field that is still very eager to keep hierarchies. My boss is actually very emotionless if she is referred as Sie (formal) or du (informal) by the colleagues. But in the “old” times Sie was mandatory. It was believed that it was harder to say “Sie Idiot” than “du Idiot”/ that is was easier to keep being professional by using the formal language. Good news for German learners - using the formal pronoun is much much easer than the informal Du because the verb just looks like the infinitive form. Just start of with the formal pronoun and people will let you know if they are fine with the Du. ;)

@soulxslayerchan

2 жыл бұрын

As a German learner right now, I find this very relatable and helpful. The Sie form and the Modalverben are saviours!

@shibolinemress8913

2 жыл бұрын

I studied German at university in the U.S., and it was indeed easier to use the formal Sie at first. This made the German exchange students smile because it sounded so strange to hear us using Sie with other students, but they were happy to help us practice the Du conjugation. Now speaking fluent German and having lived in Germany for nearly 40 years, I look back on that time and smile at myself! 😊 These days I feel a bit odd when we're told to use Du at work, but only because I'm nearly 60 and not accustomed to younger colleagues that I don't know well addressing me with Du.

@tatianaweinstein9036

Жыл бұрын

We " dutzen" in Hamburg pretty much:)))

@XEinstein

Жыл бұрын

As a Dutchy I speak German quite well, but I do indeed prefer to use sie as it's way easier

@mikethespike7579

Жыл бұрын

My late German mother tended to rather use the formal "Sie" with most people because, she said, "Sie Idiot" sounded more serious then when using "du".

Very very few Quakers use old English today. It had a major die out in the 1940s. Only a few old folks used it, and now practically none. A very fine presentation, thank Thee

Haha, love the sanctimonious, self-righteous, pompous and smug expression at 4:00. All perfectly encapsulated in less than a second...Great comedy timing! Nice one Rob, great video.

In the Southern US we still differentiate between "you" singular and "you" plural by the expedient contraction of "you all" to "y'all". "Y'all" is NEVER singular here, though often used as such by scriptwriters, transplanted Yankees, etc. We also differentiate between a part of a group (y'all) or the entire group (all y'all).

@Fledhyris

Жыл бұрын

I love this, and I've been known to use it myself on occasion, even though I'm British. It makes so much sense and also sounds friendlier and somehow more inclusive than just a dry 'you' :)

@egodreas

Жыл бұрын

Well, _"y'all"_ is just short for _"you all",_ so it wouldn't make much sense to use it in the singular.

@angeldude101

Жыл бұрын

I just find it silly that people needed to invent a new plural form when the existing one was already plural to begin with and had a perfectly fine singular form to complement it. So we have Thou - unambiguously singular You - formal or ambiguous (originally plural) Y'all - unambiguously plural

@dottieditto9064

Жыл бұрын

And in the philadelphia dialect it it “yoose” as in “yo yoose guys”.

@RobCamp-rmc_0

Жыл бұрын

On the other side of Pennsylvania, in Pittsburgh, they say “yinz”-a contraction of “you ones”, sometimes pronounced as “youns”.

In Spanish there’s a verb for the act of making a relationship less formal. You start off with a stranger saying usted, but at some point you get to know each other enough that you can tutear, switch to using tu

@ruth6883

Жыл бұрын

Interesting in Germany we have verbs for both saying "Sie" and "du". We "siezen" a person in formal contexts and "duzen" us with friends and family. But we have no way for the changing.

I personally know Quakers who still use plain speech among themselves. They do not say “thou” and, as you mention, they do not conjugate the verbs either. Instead they use ‘thee’ as subject as well as ‘object’. So, “Thee is kind” as well as “I will give a job to thee”

Rob, thank you for explaining the usage of “Thou.” I’d known that it used to be the informal form of “you,” but was confused as to why “Thou” was used in reference to God. Thanks to you, that’s been nicely cleared up. Keep up the great work!

That thing on the ultra-formal “you” coinciding with the group-you still exists in German today 😊 it’s called Majestätsplural and the only difference is that the informal group-you is spelled “ihr” whereas the Majestätsplural is spelled “Ihr”, with a capital I 😁 👸🏻: Ihr habt schöne Zähne (you have nice teeth) 👯‍♀️: ihr habt schöne Zähne (same meaning in modern English)

@jankelen

3 жыл бұрын

In Latin American Spanish, they do something similar-- "usted" is formal, but "ustedes" is used for groups, even though Spanish from Spain has an informal plural you.

@aloedg3191

2 жыл бұрын

I thought Sie was for plural and singular formal?

@nokihan1787

2 жыл бұрын

@@aloedg3191 Yes it is, but as you surely know "sie" is used for the formal 2nd person singular and the 3rd person plural. Therefore "Sie/sie" doesn't behave analogously to the "thou/you" Situation, which refers to the 2nd person singular and the 2nd person plural. What the original commenter pointed out, is that the fact that in German we can use "Ihr/ihr" for the 2nd person singular and the second person plural is somewhat comparable to the English use of "you".

@barbarossarotbart

2 жыл бұрын

@@nokihan1787 And it gets a little bit more weird, because in German it was possible to address some one with much lower social rank by using the third person singular. And the third person plural can also be used to address a group of people formally.

@nokihan1787

2 жыл бұрын

@@barbarossarotbart Could you elaborate on the thing with using third person singular for adressing people of lower standing? Do I understand it correctly that you mean that a king or sometone like that might go to a peasant and say something like "Er stinkt nach Mist" directly to them like it would be translated as "you smell of dung"? If that is the case that would be kind of surprising to me. Would you happen to know any prominent examples of this from literature for example?

Very good recap, just a remark that I do not believe W. Tyndall actually had a choice. Not just English but (nearly) all Western languages use the informal 2nd person pronoun to talk to God and there is a reason for it: that in European languages, the formal singular 2nd person pronoun is a relatively late, development of medieval societies. The formal pronoun comes either from the plural or the 3rd person pronoun. It was (in many languages still is) a complicated, non-neutral, artificial way of addressing someone who shouldn't be just addressed directly, by using an unnatural pronoun and conjugation in the situation. Of course it was typically not used to address people who are close to you. And God is someone whom people address in the most direct way and who is (spiritually) the closest to one.

I'm so thankful for this video, cuz I'm not a native speaker so there are many things i don't know about your language and one of those was this, i was reading the bible and I found those words and I couldn't understand a lot because of those words, but now I got it. So thank you.

There I was thinking I was pretty up to speed on all this, but you reminded me that I never did learn the specific usage of "ye". I'm glad to know it's nominative and hopefully I'll remember that. I've always found the King James Version of the Bible to be a beautiful text, and videos such as this have made it much more accessible.

Czech is my native language and it's funny how all those conjugations, differentiation between object and subject, the singular, plural and the formal versions (that use the plural form) make _perfect_ sense to me, as opposed to just having one word, "you".

This is the most interesting English lesson I've had so far

I've never read Shakespeare and I was rubbish at English in school, I never knew the English language could be so interesting, thank you.

Have always used Ye and not You in Geordie dialect. Thou and thee were also used in North Durham and parts of South Northumberland in my childhood. 'Where have you been?' was said 'where 'st tha bin?'(Where hast thou been )

What an extremely interesting video. I shall certainly watch more of these in the future.

@RobWords

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you Mortyn. If you have any podcasts or anything, I would be happy to listen to them.

Just knew your channel and I'm binge watching it now! Great content! Suggestion: a video about how English simplified the plural form of (most) words.

@RobWords

3 жыл бұрын

You read my mind! It's on the list. Why did children and brethren slip through the net??

@polyhistorphilomath

2 жыл бұрын

or how did English simplify X for (almost) all values of X? It's so simple there's hardly anything left but a dictionary. That's why we need people to informally explain what a case system is--that's the proof, given that English is still technically an inflected language!

This was incredibly entertaining and educational video. And I love your sense of humour. Thank you so much! :) While English is only my 5th language and I've been learning it for the past 30-ish years, nobody has really explained the differences as clearly as this here video, so again, thank you.

@rreagan007

Жыл бұрын

Probably because most native English speakers don't really know how to use the archaic pronouns.

I thank thee brother, for thou hast explained this quite well. I for one use these in my daily talking and people think I’m nuts talking in Shakespeare but really on the contrary I was influenced by the KJV Bible. Blessed thou art and may God bless thee ❤️🇦🇺❤️🇦🇺❤️🇦🇺

This video feels more current and meaningful to me than thou mayest imagine. I'm a native of the United States; a land so large and with so many regional dialects that many of us have to study other US dialects before traveling to a different part of our nation just to have somewhat of a grasp of the similarities and differences among terms such as "Y'all", You'uns" and "You guys". At least for myself and for mine own utterances, it's important to me that my words indicate my intention of friendliness and respect. Also, personal pronoun preferences are a hot topic in the US at this moment. Many Americans want to get rid of all gendered pronouns so that speech doesn't include a gender assignment...and as many are upset at the idea of calling everyone a "they" or "them". We don't yet have a solution to this language conflict. My partial solution is that most people have no objection to the first-person pronouns one would use in a personal conversation. We can all call ourselves "I" or "me", call the person to whom we speak "you", and perhaps once some rapport has developed, we can call the two of us "we". These are just tiny elements of speech, but they are elements that make a difference in how people hear the conversation; formal or informal, speaking about, at, or with someone, expressing a respectful request or an imperative command can all come down to which pronouns one uses. I pray that with these simple words I have conveyed to thee the import I find in this, thy chosen subject for examination. I thank you for both your choice of a good subject and for the respectful manner in which you approach it. Ya'll English folk is okay by me.

@garryferrington811

Жыл бұрын

Interestingly, "ya'll" is relatively recent. Mark Twain, Andrew Jackson, and Jefferson Davis probably never heard it, let alone used it.

@RottenRottys

Жыл бұрын

You cannot forget all y'all.

As you say, I am very glad we have lost the formal/informal second person, but I would prefer that we (and that is not the 'royal we', that can be singular) were still to retain the distinction on singular and plural 'you' and 'thou'.

I do enjoy thy videos, and have subscribed to thee today. I use thee, thou, thy and thine as a Renaissance faire performer, and I was able to learn its forms and functions from learning Spanish in High school. I cheat with the verb conjugations by only conjugating the verb to do and using it as a helper verb.

Thank god all my years of playing Ultima 7 have finally payed off. Thou'rt a wonderful teacher and I enjoy thy videos. Verily yeet. Of course we've gotten back a bunch of plural you's in the US. Down south we got y'all, up north we got yous

I live in France and use the language, however when I write in English to one of my English children, I really miss an easy way to directly address just one without referring also to their siblings. So I use the single word 'tu' or 'vous', within the sentence which they do now comprehend well....... so alas we have lost something in simplifying our English vocabulary.

So "thou" could be as the "vos" we use in Argentina. In spanish the way to say "you" is "tú", but in Argentina and Uruguay we have a different and exclusive way to say it, that is "vos". Also used on informal way. I have started to watch your videos since a couple of them, and are fantastic. I've learnt a lot. Keep on with your amazing work. Greetings from Argentina friend!

@poliorcetix979

2 жыл бұрын

Tú=thou informal who disappeared in Middle Age then came back strongly Vos = you plural, then formal, who took the place of thou, and disappeared after the colonisation of America and only remained in some places. Vosotros = y'all, appeared pretty late to distinguish vos plural and singular. Vos only stayed for singular then and Vosotros for plural. Usted= since vos was no more formal, usted , contraction of vuestra Merced (your grace), took its formal place Ustedes = plural form of usted to be formal, currently taking the place of Vosotros in a lot of Spanish-speaking countries. I hope I explained well ;)

@Keldor314

2 жыл бұрын

@@poliorcetix979 I've just noticed that "vosotros" seems to be a contraction of "vos otros", or literally "you others" in English. Seems to be a fairly logical way to construct a plural. "Ustedes" is just an ordinary plural form of "usted", adding -es to the end of a word to make it plural, very similar to English plurals. Incidentally, Usted/ustedes also messes with conjugation, analogous to you vs. thou. It also seems to mess with word order, where in contrast to most pronoun cases, which come before the verb, usted seems to usually follow the verb.

@slohmann1572

2 жыл бұрын

In Portuguese we have the equivalent “você”. Curiously, we from south Brazil (your neighbors) almost only use “tu”. Btw in Colombia they use vos in some parts too.

@jarekferenc1149

2 жыл бұрын

@@Keldor314 I am not fully qualified to explain this, but - as far as I know - Usted (in writing abbreviated to Ud.) is a shortened version of Vuestra merced (in writing abbrev. to Vd.). This means literally Your Grace or Your Mercy, and is the most polite way to turn to a king or queen or any superior. The equivalent in Br. English is Your Majesty or Your Highness (in Am. English they never had Royals). Therefore Usted is the polite way of saying "you" to the respected person using the third person form. Probably this is the reason for confusion with second and third person forms, and with the order SVO or VSO. Pls mind that this is also typical in other languages, although the courtesy forms may differ.

@davespagnol8847

2 жыл бұрын

When I went to Colombia to visit friends I had made on line, about 12 years ago, I don't think anyone used Vosotros. They tended to use tu (singular informal), usted (singular formal) and ustedes (all plural). I'm not sure if that was general, or just the people I met. Actually, much of the time, the pronouns were not used at all. So "How are you" translated as "Como estas" (informal), "Como está" (formal), and "Como estan" (plural).

this is the only video that you have done, that i kind of already knew the rules for. i have family in the New Forest, and when i was little, in the early 80s, my great uncles and aunts spoke this way.....

Coming from a German background, this is really intuitive for me, as it is pretty much parallel to the conjugations of the informal du. Thank you for presenting this so systematically!

I occasionally use the phrase "how be thou?" when greeting someone I know. BTW, my dad's family is from Yorkshire. 😉😂

That was interesting. A lot of the uses of thou/thee/thy/thine I figured out through reading how they were used in the King James and Shakespeare. But the bit that I didn’t pick up was the plural ye as subject and plural they as object. That is confusing.

I am a 59-year-old Quaker from East Yorkshire. I went to a Quaker boarding school in York. Neither at home nor at school did we use anything but 'you'. I was brought up largely by my grandmother who was born in 1893 in Ilkley, North Yorkshire. Living to one hundred years old, she never left Yorkshire in her life. However, when my (southern English) husband met my grandmother, I had to translate for him; even though she used 'you', he scarcely understood a word she was saying. I had not realised how blithely one can slip unawares into dialect when 'back home', in any culture. Oρίστε! That was a very creditable Yorkshire of yours at 5'24". Bravo!

I’m in my fourth year of Spanish study and this video made me giddy. I think it’s fascinating to see what aspects of language used to be in English (such as distinction between formal and informal “you”) but were lost to time. I have mixed feelings about it if I’m being honest, but I understand why it was changed; just having one word mean all four of those things simplifies things immensely. I’m kind of tempted to apply “thou,” “thee,” and “ye” to my modern English because I think it would help me understand some Spanish concepts I’m still not clear on; might get some weird looks from my friends, though. If thou bothered to read through all this, I hope thou hast a blessèd day!

one thing that struck me. In one of your other videos you mentioned how "Ye" was actually "The" with "Y" being very similar letter coming from runic, simply meaning "Th". And "You" seem awfully similar to "Thou" if you follow the same logic.

@borkabrak

Жыл бұрын

The very first thing I thought when I saw the introduction to this was it's thorn, right? Tell me it's Thorn! (Thorn being the name of the old runic letter). But somehow I actually find the real explanation more satisfying.

In the Spring of 1970 I was in Paris on Palm Sunday and heard some wonderful music from a small church. When I stopped in they were reading the Passion. This American high school kid's French wasn't all that good, but I followed along. I understood most of it but could not figure why they would _tutoier_ all the time. The French use _tu_ in speaking to god. This makes the Tyndale story a bit weak. When you speak to god you are speaking to your BFF. Have you done a will/shall episode? I so often have to explain the differences to my students (I teach singing and lots of texts from lots of periods come through). We _shall_ overcome. I _will_ prevail.

@livrowland171

2 жыл бұрын

I think that in French the use of tu for God is probably also due to the stress on his singularity

@martyheresniak5203

2 жыл бұрын

@@livrowland171 There goes the whole idea of a trinity.

@francisdec1615

2 жыл бұрын

@@livrowland171 The Germans use 'du' to God as well. Same in the Nordic countries.

I like to keep words alive. I often use daren’t and thou in conversation (amongst others).

Of course I like thy video(s) and long subscribed to thy channel! Thank thee for sharing, thank thee for reading, and: Thou art the best english teacher on youtube.. erm.. thoutube of course. 😊

You mean "ThouTube".

Hey Rob. Was just wondering at the Ye, which you referred to in an earlier video. The `Y` was said to have ergonomically replaced `TH` from the AS Futhorc to accommodate natural change and the printing press. Is this another way of reading (?) the word Thou in it`s formal, You? Likewise with Ye and Thee? If that`s the case, would we ever be saying Yine? And, could we refer to thy as Thth or YY (I had a laugh at this one). In the Black Country, where I survive, natives are inclined still to use Thou or Yow, for You. As an aside, Ay, Bay or even Bisn`t is used for aren`t. Likewise Bist is used for are. It`s a wonderful world.

@TheJamesM

Жыл бұрын

While that would make sense, it's not the case. In the case of "ye" for the definite article (as in "Ye Olde Red Lion"), the original spelling was "þe", where the letter thorn represented the "th" sound. As Rob explained in his video, how this letter was written gradually morphed until it was nearly indistinguishable from a "y", which is why it came to be spelt that way. "Ye" for the nominative second-person plural (as in "ye of little faith") was originally spelt "ȝe". In this case, the letter yogh was always pronounced with the "y" sound. Again, changes in writing style lead to it becoming difficult to distinguish from the letter z (when written with a tail at the bottom). However, in this instance instead of retaining the visual appearance (which would have led to it being spelt "ze", like how "Menȝies" became "Menzies"), the spelling was changed to match the pronunciation. Regarding "bist": I've heard it used before, and it always struck me that it's the same as one of the German words for "are" (e.g. "Du bist eine Person"). When I eventually got around to reading about it, I learnt that it's the equivalent of "be-est" (like with "thou art"), which makes a lot of sense. It's always fascinating and delightful to hear these holdovers from when English was a lot less standardised, and a significant portion of the lexicon would have changed as you moved from region to region. A wonderful world, as you say.

@thekarmafarmer608

Жыл бұрын

@@TheJamesM Whilst my comment was more tongue-in-cheek, I really appreciate your reply. Very interesting. Thank you.

@TheJamesM

Жыл бұрын

@@thekarmafarmer608 Sorry - rereading I can see that now. It can be hard to tell online!

@thekarmafarmer608

Жыл бұрын

@@TheJamesM As beautiful as our language is, it still is in the process of accommodating modern formatting, I suppose. Such a fantastic subject though. As I get older I`ve become more and more fascinated by it.

I am Brazilian and I love to know English it seemed like Portuguese in the past I had no idea about that! So cool! ❤️

I must say, I have probably found his your most fascinating video. Cheers!

Wait - would “thou” and “you” have rhymed??

Thou, thee, thy = ty, cię, twój (in Polish). They are spoken almost the same, are used the same and of course mean the same. German examples of du, dich, dein are spoken far more differently, albeit they still bear somewhat recognizable similarity. A question arises: which is the original? As a speaker of several languages, I opt for Polish based on observation (and some History, too - king Harald and stuff). I see Poles learn to speak both EN and DE fast, yet know of no German or English who grasped Polish quickly. This might (mind you, might) suggest a one-way similarity. On the same token, I met French, American, English, and Germans who learned fluent Russian, Polish, Czech and even Hungarian - which I for one still cannot speak fluently to this day. To sum up, old English usage of thy, thee, thou stroke me as patently Polish when I first read it at the age of four, or five. You sounds formal, borderline unnatural to me. You is BTW far closer to the German du. Both have long [u:].

I thank thee for thy video 👌 Highly informative as always 👍

Amazingly enough I know all this just from being raised in Church, reading and teaching the KJV of the Bible. I have no idea what the grammar rules are specifically but I do know what sounds right next to these words and the right one just comes naturally.