Remember the Battle Sister Squad standalone kit does *NOT* have a Multi-melta in it. For the multi-melta, you've gotta grab the Retributor Squad kit.

@Goober2289

8 ай бұрын

You can also take the meltagun or combi melta barrels and put them on the heavy flamer, looks basically identical

@18120polls

8 ай бұрын

AND the Retributor kit only has 2 Multi-Meltas in the box

@MartynStanleyAuthor

6 ай бұрын

@@Goober2289 I did this. I actually magnetised her so I can take with Heavy Flamer OR Multi Melta by just swapping the barrels. It's a pity you don't get more weapons with the Retributor kit. I'd like to magnetise so I can take 4 x Ministorum Heavy Flamer OR 4 x Multi Melta. :(

@MartynStanleyAuthor

6 ай бұрын

@@18120polls Yeah, that sucks. It's like they want you to but two boxes to make a flamer squad AND a Multi Melta Squad.

I, Cato Sicarius, do declare that this servitor's video data analysis on the Sisters and their capabilities, is accurate.

@Nico745

8 ай бұрын

⚜️The God-Emperor.... is quite amused⚜️

@josepholivarez1281

8 ай бұрын

Thank you very much Captain Cato Sicarius, Master of the Watch, Knight Champion of Macragge, Grand Duke of Talassar, and High Suzerain of Ultramar.

@depholade

8 ай бұрын

Hi Cato, huge fan! How was your time in the warp?

@SignoftheMagi

8 ай бұрын

I feel a fistin' coming on...

@DeltaPi314

3 ай бұрын

damn, I miss that show.

I gifted my fiancée the Adepta Sororitas Combat Patrol and Sanctorum Guard Battle Force boxes to get her Battle Sisters army started. At the time, the Sanctorum Guard was 940 points and the CP was around 425, which made getting 1000+ points army relatively cheap and easy. It was getting the rest of the way to 2000 points that it got expensive, because Battle Sisters have SO MANY characters that are

@nightingaleseraph

3 ай бұрын

Blood angels player here and I’m in shock with how expensive they are. My husband and I split up the cost and share the army since it costs more than my marines and his bugs.

@reavern

3 ай бұрын

@@nightingaleseraph Yes, those discount boxes disguised how expensive collecting Battle Sisters truly is. If my fiancée cared about the meta, it would be even more expensive!

Can not be a coincidence. I literally talked yesterday to my wife about starting a new army, and we both agreed that Sisters of Battle would be a lot of fun to paint and play with. And today you drop a video on how to collect them, it must be fate or maybe faith that guides us lol.

@serwombles8816

3 ай бұрын

Did u get it? :)

The novitiate kill team is such an absurd value I'm amazed GW hasn't axed it. You can use it to make every non-named character we've got plus the squad itself plus some great decorative bits. And if you build the squad with guns you get something like 11-12 swords which look great on sacresants.

@jevonp

7 ай бұрын

It's my first box of minis and I'm so pleased with it. Painted a few so far with all of them put together. I was wondering what to do with all the extra loadout pieces, great to know I can use them for more minis

@cousinzeke4888

7 ай бұрын

@@jevonp No joke, you probably save over 100 bucks using novitiate bits to make characters.

You can save some money with Sisters if your are decent with converting. The kill team: novitiates has all the bits to make a Dialogus, Dogmata, Hospitaller and a Canoness/Palatine if you swap out the Novitiate Superior for an other sister superior. The Combat Patrol also has some nice models for converting but does require planning ahead.

@judicus4036

8 ай бұрын

Any guide you can link on how to do this?

@maxxieboy271

8 ай бұрын

I agree, id love to see how!

@RConnickJr

8 ай бұрын

The Triumph of Saint Katherine also has at the very least a Dialogus, Imagifier and Cannoness/Palantine model built in if you're willing to magnetize them to their bases.

@Bluecho4

8 ай бұрын

@@RConnickJr By that same token, a set of Novitiate parts and some spare Sisters could very well kitbash your own Triumph. Maybe sticking some generic piece of religious iconography in place of the body, to represent some kind of holy relic. Saint Catherine's procession can't be _everywhere_ in the galaxy, after all. That doesn't mean sufficiently pious sisters won't fight to the death to defend their saint's toe bone in a gold box or whatever.

@RConnickJr

8 ай бұрын

Sisters in general are one of the most kitbash friendly armies out there. Though the bad side of that is that they sort of have to be, since there are more than a few units that require multiple boxes (sometimes of entirely different units!) to field. Long story short, I really wish they'd been more generous with putting multi-meltas on sprues.@@Bluecho4

Just a correction with the comment on the battle sisters box @ 14:27. Even though in the datasheet a battle sisters squad allows for sister with a multi melta, the box doesn't come with one, you'll need to build one from a retributior box or I've seen some ppl kitbash the heavy flamer by cutting the barrels off the heavy flamer and replacing them with the barrels of two of the standard melta guns from the battle sisters box 😊

@WoWisdeadtome

8 ай бұрын

I actually made this conversion by cutting the barrels off unused combi-melta bits as well. The barrel is the same size either way and I feel like it gives up less in terms of the more valuable parts although you still need an extra squad. A squad of retributors and a BSS gets you what you need to make a total of 4 multi-meltas if you steal barrels from the combi-weapons as well. That way you can save a couple extra meltaguns should you want them for dominions at some point. Though don't sell the Sister's heavy flamers short, at S6 they're particularly good at culling large amounts of things like Orks or gaunts.

A someone who has played sisters as my main army for a few years I can't recommend 2 combat patrol boxes enough. Pretty much everything is usable in one form or another. You will end up with 2 canonesses which one could be be used as a palatine with some kitbashing. A cool thing i found was that when I bought a box of Zephyrim, the melee jetpack sisters, they come with the full special weapons for seraphim since its the same kit. So with the two combat patrol seraphim and a box of zephyrim you can make one with 2 sets of hand flamers and one with 2 sets of inferno pistols and a full set of zephyrim with very minor adjustments.

Just two days ago bought a Combat Patrol and a Castigator, then a second Patrol from a friend who was getting rid of his. Timed those purchases well with this video

Small caveat for the combat patrol - the repentia and arco-flagellants have really awkward squad sizes. The maximum squad size is not a multiple of the minimum squad size (which is included in the box). This makes it difficult to max out the squads with multiple copies of the combat patrol, and if you buy a separate box of units, you'll obviously have a max squad, making the squads in this box largely redundant (at least with the current 10E rules). Just something to be aware of.

Sisters are by far my favorite faction in 40k and what I was hmming and haaing over buying to get back into painting. But the price was just super rough and what pushed me back to Tyranids (thanks to them having a lot of cheap stuff due to intro boxes on ebay). Maybe I'll pick up a box of something for Christmas, would be fun to finally get into the faction! I was always kicking around a fun custom order and color scheme that focused on big uses of fire (flamers and meltas) mixed with tanks (especially immolators). Definitely more of a 'for fun' thing rather than anything competitive.

Just bought my first sisters of battle squad! Cannot wait to asseble and paint them. Thanks for the video!

I'd like to see, as a rule change, the ability to bring some allies along like the old days.

I'm glad I grabbed the Christmas box last year. Great kit, makes me wish I'd bought 2 of them.

@DaKdawg

6 ай бұрын

Yeah, I'm glad I bought that too. Really helped flush out the combat patrol I had the year previous. Good stuff.

Very well timed, as I am starting sisters for kill team and combat patrol.

My daughter plays sororitas. The first purchase was a zeraphym squad and the combat patrol. As a person with decades of experience in building plastic models, the quality difference between that zeraphym squad and the combat patrol was shameful for the price. Zeraphym squad was great, 100% recommended. The combat patrol... I had to use model putty to fill the gaps! Maybe I got a bad box, idk.

I've just started a sisters army so really helpful. I just picked up battle sisters as cannoness off eBay and some paragon suits cuz they look cool

Great vid! I’m using this Christmas break to finally assemble and paint all my sisters boxes. Making them green and calling them “salamander sisters”

Got my Adeptas Sororitas battle box last year on ebay for $112. Got everything else for $48 to $51 on either amazon or ebay. Prices may have increased since last December.

@christophermetzger8183

8 ай бұрын

1 squad of 10 sisters, 1 seraphim squad, 2 pentient engines and the battlebox.

My favourite thing to do with the Battle Sister Squad is use my extra bits from boxes to kitbash Seraphim and Retributors, though, now, I do need a BSS squad for actually using as such

I started painting my sisters in bloody rose style thank you for explaining there guns etc.

Actually flicked through the old Witch Hunters codex from when the Sisters and Ordo Hereticus were combined. I do like the newer plastic range and will pick some up for my Imperial collection eventually.

With the contents of Imperium, 2 extra boxes Combat Patrol, Morhenn Vahl & maybe two boxes of Killteam Inquisitor & a Jokaero for an Inquisitor gang might be good (1970 points) :D

Your timing could not be better on this my friend

@PriestessOfSlaanesh

8 ай бұрын

Same, started soros 3 days ago lol

@joshhawickhorst4114

8 ай бұрын

@@PriestessOfSlaanesh Godspeed to us both then 🫡

I really recommend Christian Von Carmian for sisters content

Great video. I was looking at starting a sisters army after Christmas. This was very helpful.

Don't know what you did with the sound, but your voice sounds so much better now. That was my only complaint with the channel!

Interesting! I'm currently working towards building a 1500 pnt Army, with a view to expanding to 2000 later. I have Built & Painted - Morven Vahl + 10 Battle Sisters. I have Assembled and Primed so playable:- 5 x Celestian Sacresants + 3 x Paragon Warsuits + Missionary + 3 x Arco Flagellants (so 560 pnts Playable) I also own, but haven't gotten around to doing yet 2 x Penitent Engines (I'll probably do 1 as Penitent and the other as Anchorite Mortifier but magnetise them so I can change them around) Dialogus, Hospitalier, Imagifier, Exorcist Tank, Retributor Squad. The plan to take it up to 1500 pts is to get Celestine and a squad of Zephyrim. Not to sure where to go from there. A transport or two might be nice - so Immolator or 2? I quite like the look of the Castigator and would like one but not sure? I'd be tempted to up the Arco Flagellants to a full squad the 3 + a Missionary is to use up the last 70 points and give me something cheap to sneak around and sit on an undefended Objective. I also wouldn't mind a squad of Repentia. I DO like the Triumph, but it looks like an epic painting tasks and a lot of points to put into one model so not sure.... Thoughts?

I would love to see something like this for Grey Knights, its always hard when the faction feels so complex and worsen by some sort

@cptkrank6802

8 ай бұрын

Most of the complexity of Grey Knights has gone away with 10th edition. Psyker powers are now just shooting attacks or unit buffs. You have no variety of melee weapons anymore, they all have a single profile. Buy 2-3 Combat Patrols and Strike/Terminator boxes until you hit 2000+ points, maybe throw in a Land Raider just for the Lascannons.

the "I 'm Realy Really Sorry" ministorum lists are still fun and I think there will be a decent detachment option for them. maybe.

thanks

Boy I really wish I had kept that boarding Patrol now

I'm just getting back into 40k after a decade or so absence. I have sisters from back when they were a part of the Witch Hunters codex in 4th (5th?) edition. I have to say I'd be pretty disappointed if the crazier things like flagellants or penitent engines are removed from the list. They've been together since that Witch Hunters codex, albeit with the flagellants in particular being quite a bit weaker than they once were. In that edition, having T5, 4+ invulnerable and D6 attacks each at S4 allowing no armor saves, they were one of the few things that could make even Incubi (notorious squad killers) raise an eyebrow and go: "Dude, calm down." So far, I've mostly picked up a few kits for things I didn't have because they didn't exist in the last edition I played: Castigators, Paragon Warsuits, Mortifiers (probably better than Penitent Engines most of the time in the current ruleset even if less crazy), Sacrasants (which I will field at least one unit of regardless of their power because the models are fantastic) and the Novitiates built as a cheap combat squad with a pair of flamers. Now this may be a decade out of date so take this observation for what it's worth, but I often found inferno pistols were not a great option. The range is simply too short, often you would get to fire it once at most as it's maximum range was in charge range of literally everything and with the turn sequence going move > shoot > charge you could get charged by faster stuff without ever being able to fire it or you'd fire it once, THEN get charged, or charge in yourself. Either way it was a one shot weapon maximum. I would probably lean towards combi-weapons for squad leaders as they are one use as well but you will almost certainly get that one shot off. The ability to fire an inferno pistol in engagement range may make a big difference in this edition, so again, maybe take this with a grain of salt, it's just my early impression of things.

@SgtBeltfed

8 ай бұрын

Codex Witch Hunters came out near the end of 3rd ed. Recently got back into 40K myself, started with Sisters end of 2nd ed, played them into 4th ED where I took my long break. Funniest thing so happen this edition so far was some younger players walking by the table though the collection of Rhino hulls was cool. Had a 2nd ed Immolator (cute little metal and plastic thing), a late 3rd ed Rhino with Forgeworld doors, with the current Castigator and Exorcist. I'm pretty certain that my Cannonese and Standard Bearer (who was running with a random squad as an icon bearer) were older than the players checking them out.

I have been debating my next army being either sister or grey knights. Love the sister models but like the lore and gameplay of grey knights more. Hard choice

@MrDUCKMAN5555

8 ай бұрын

the thing about grey knights is their gameplay charges every edition

@riclacy3796

8 ай бұрын

I'm the same. Grey Knights probably gonna get taller models at some point. But also, you can get and paint a whole army of Grey Knights about 5 times easier than sisters 😅 and I have a 3D printer, so...

@OniGanon

8 ай бұрын

Personally I'd hold off on Grey Knights until they get a Primaris refresh, or at least until the new Dark Angels release so you can use those for conversion.

Nuns with guns what's not to like :-) If you play combat patrol it's fun to see the other person's face when you keep deploying units. Downside is their lack of AP in my experience.

I feel like the Castigator autocanons need to be looked at by GW. They get 8 shots within 24" which is solid but at only -1 nearly all targets will get their base armor save against it. The other option of the battle canon, while it re-rolls hits against vehicles and monsters, is almost always going to be better even against infantry. The battle canon does D6+3 attacks with blast (D6+5 against a 10 model squad) at S10 with -1 but also ignores cover. S10 over S9 isn't always massively relevant but does come up more than you might think if targets are T5 or T10. If the autocanons had 8 shots at -2, re-rolling hits against infantry it feels more competitive and worth considering.

Quick question since I was thinking about getting back into the hobby, is it just the Data Cards or do they have a proper Codex for Sisters??

I really hope we get some biker sisters as a new unit with the new codex.

I'd say avoid the combat patrol like the plague. I've yet found any use for the miniature squads within and you need to do conversion work to get the seraphim to actually be usable. Was better in 9th with flexible unit sizes when you could add a naked sword lady or two to a larger unit to fill out points.

@Raygun9000

8 ай бұрын

If you get 2 boxes combing the repentia to make a big squad is a must, you'll be one short though. The battle sisters need conversion to be competitive (no hvy weapon, and a flamer and storm bolter as special is a joke). The arcos are tricky....if you got 4 combat patrols you'd have a full squad and 2 left over for the repentia.😅

@lewisbenzie845

8 ай бұрын

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! No. No use for the Battle Line Sisters Squad & a Rhino are you joking :D Not to mention the Penitent Engine. :D

@Krachbumm-Ente

8 ай бұрын

You cannot combine the repentia units ...@@Raygun9000

@Turai12

8 ай бұрын

​@@lewisbenzie845Locked weapons on the battle sisters lowers the value DRAMATICALLY. Same with Seraphim (since they don't get their flamers). The rhino is useful, I'll give you that and so is the Canoness(at least if you don't mind her loudout). The engine is okay, especially since you generally run them solo rather than in pairs. If you changed the sisters, seraphim and canoness to be multipart then the box would be absolutely awesome. Could even trash the weird miniature melee units for that.

You know it's kind of funny that the crusaders still in finecast while I think they made a plastic one for Blackstone fortress

Went to get glue... ended up getting 50 new sisters 🤪 yesterday

@yuttorres2896

8 ай бұрын

50 sisters that’s insane what did you get?

@user-qx7yw2cv7k

8 ай бұрын

@@yuttorres2896 30 with special weapons 20 without. 100% pewter

Have loads of dosh!

omg I just decided to start my second army and you have made a video, how?

How I started a Sisters army: 2x Combat Patrols 2x Seraphim Retributors Battle Sisters Novitiates Knight Amigers -The CP Seraphim are all dual Bolt Pistol, so I build 4 as Seraphim, 6 as Zephyrim (including Superiors) using parts from Seraphim boxes. Then using the Seraphim boxes I build 4 Seraphim dual hand flamers, 2 Seraphim Superior, and 4 Zephyrim. End result is 2 Seraphim units with hand flamers, 2 Zephyrim units. -The CP Sisters squads come with 1 Flamer and 1 Stormbolter each, the Superior lacks options and there are no cherubs. The Retributors and Battle Sisters boxes provide all the special and heavy weapons options to supply 2 or 3 Battle Sisters squads (could even field some as Dominions), along with cherubs and options for the Superiors. It might seem terrible to sacrifice two boxes for spare parts, but the options and special characters (from combining with Novitiates box) are worth it. -The Novitiates box contains arm parts that can be used in combination with bodies from the Battle Sisters box to create a Dialogus, Hospitalier, Dogmata, and arguably an Imagifier. It also contains more options for Sister Superiors or a Canoness, the crossbow part for a Condemnor, and an Eviscerator for potentially kitbashing a Repentia. The Novitiates themselves are a decent melee unit combined with a Palatine. -The Condemnor Boltgun is technically a Combi-Weapon. Since all Combi-Weapons are the same now regardless of appearance, you can declare Condemnors to be Combi-Weapons if the enemy army lacks Psykers, and you're still technically WYSIWYG compliant. -Since Combi-Weapons are all the same, it doesn't matter which model you use, so use Plasma if not just using Condemnors. The barrels from two Combi-Meltas can be cut and used to replace the barrels on Heavy Flamers to turn them into Multi-Meltas, if necessary. The Combi-Flamer can be used with an Auto/Bolt Pistol to kitbash a Hand Flamer. -Armiger Warglaives have what are essentially Multi-Meltas with slightly longer range, and they're about twice as many points per dollar vs a Sororitas tank because there's two per box. Of course they lose the benefits of being a Sororitas unit though. -The only things with decent points per value left are Paragon Warsuits, which you take with Morven Vahl, and then Mortifiers. After that it's a slog of buying Exorcists, Castigators, Immolators, Epic Heroes and more Battle Sisters at godawful points per dollar value.

The stand alone battle sisters box doesn't come with a multimelta!

If you want to get some crusaders I would say to buy 2 sisters of silence equipped with power swords and paint them your colour and give a sister’s helmet to the models

@theblackantonio

8 ай бұрын

Do they fit 25mm though? Sisters of silence are 32mm and they're quite expensive, coming in boxes of 5

I started collecting SoB a year ago and I think the Combat Patrol I have mixed feelings about the combat patrol. You get a lot of different units, but they are all monopose (And believe me, you'll get bored of them very quickly, specially since the regular sisters, celestians and dominions are all literally the same unit. You'll be stuck painting the same complex miniatures 30 times) and can be pretty bad for the canoness. And the Repentia, arcoflagellant and penitent engine are half or less of their usual unit size. Honestly, I'd be pretty ok if they got rid of a bunch of models and gave us a whole unit instead. Full repentia squad, no flagellants, no penitent engine. Similar to the boarding patrol, that was pretty solid. The Combat patrol is excellent if you want to test your painting skills though.

@OniGanon

8 ай бұрын

On the other hand you can buy two Combat Patrols and not feel like you have too many Repentia.

Sister are one of my favourite factions and would like to collect them, but I just can't justify those prices 😞

9:13 contains an error, there is no order of "Ebon Challenge" it's "Ebon Challice"

I like this guy... some tips tricks and suggestion.. comments for the youtube gods, subs for the subs throne

Where's my Vampire?

@lionusoctavus6444

8 ай бұрын

He had actually good takes and didn't say stupid things like "buy two combat patrols"

By far the most fun army to use imo

Buying the Combat Patrol Box is actually not a good advice. The Repentia and Canoness see no play at the moment. The Seraphim are useless without hand flamers (you need to buy a seperate box of them and build Zephyrim and then kitbash handflamers onto the Seraphim in the Combat Patrol Box) and lastly the Battle Sisters are equipped with neither a heavy flamer nor a multi melta, making this squad mostly useless for all intends and purposes. I recommend the Combat Patrol Box for the mono poses and collectables primarily. The Rhino, 3xArco-Flagellants and Penitent Engine are nice though

How to start Sisters: "Buy the combat patrol it's good" Ok

The sisters range refresh got me back into 40k after a couple editions hiatus. pretty big fan of their aesthetic. was personally never big on sisters melee options unless it was the penitent engines and arco flagellants. i do hope one of the detachments is all about the holy trinity of flamer, bolter, melta. maybe then meltas would be worth a damn.

Step 1. Have FAITH

Why start Sororitas? Sexy ladies in power armor. Depending on your painting skill, it’s an easy pick. Edit: my first 40k mini was an Imagifier. I was hooked from then on.

Both Army lists are over 2000 points

Why collect them? Hot space babes with flamethrowers and just the right amount of crazy. Been a fan since day 1!

"Fairly" nice miniatures??? Buddy the Sister minis are AWESOME! The Exorcist is a rolling church emperor dammit!

How to start? Before the combat patrol gets gutted

I'm a bit sad they don't produce the Boarding Patrol box no more.

Started using Sisters as allies in 3rd edition and I’ve been hoping for a return of the Witch Hunters book for a decade. Some thoughts: Don’t think of Sisters as female marines, think of them as heavy Guard. They’re T3 with 4+ saves and bolters. They’ve been a shooty army for many years. T3 with 4+ saves means they’re going to get mopped up in melee against even average melee-focused opponents. Units like novitiates and sacrosancts seem good…compared internally to the book. Try matching them up against assault armies and they’ll die by the handful. They lack a lot of heavy or melee options because they were meant to be used as allies or bring allies. For many editions they didn’t have tank busters besides multi meltas because they were supposed to fight alongside units who did. Gray Knights were great assault allies who teleport down in case someone wanted to get chopped up by force halberds. Bring lots of bodies. I got a few combat patrols when they were like $90, the paragon war suit box, and somehow got a new exorcist box on Amazon for like $50. I got a couple more squad boxes for conversion opportunities and the weapons. Bring lots of guns, sit back, and let the enemy come to you. They were never a strong force, but fun to build and paint. Allying in a couple of dedicated meleers like those assassins is smart.

step 1: remortgage your home

I very disagree. The combat patrol of the sister is hot garb**e. And a bad recommendation. Do NOT BUY THE COMBAT PATROL. Heres why: -The Sisters in it literally only have 2 very bad options for special weapons: A stormbolter and a SMALL flamer. While you literally could have a Melta and a big flamer for example. - The Seraphim in the box come without ANY special equipment at all. You could have 2 Inferno Pistol- Duos or 2 Handlfamers. The box only gives you boltpistols - The Sister Superior comes with a boltgun and a chainsword. She could have an inferno pistol and a power-weapon. The combat patrol is horrible.

My very useful suggestion is to buy a whole bunch of kits from Element in 2020 before Brexit and inflation made the prices unbearable.

The combat patrol is hot garbage. It wasn't the worst in 9th, but the way 10th handles wargear has retroactively ruined it. The BSS doesn't come with a Cherub, has no heavy weapon, and comes with the single worst pair of options on the Superior. The "cheap" way to properly fix this is to buy a box of Retributors. The Seraphim will require you to buy a box of them separately to build two decent squads of five as opposed to the worthless 4 boltgun squad. That's an extra $120 MSRP to fix those. You will never fix the awkward sizes of Repentia and Arcos without buying second hand models. Those miniatures will forever sit on your shelf as you go to grab the full box squads you'll get later. The single penitent engine is okay, but not ideal. The Rhino is about the only good thing the box offers, since you'll never want to buy a Rhino otherwise. Also, the BSS box doesn't come with a multi-melta on the sprues. Only Retributors get them.

If you’re in Canada and you want a Sanctorum Guard box, hit me up ☺️

@ianhendrie2828

7 ай бұрын

I'm in America, but I am looking for a Sanctorum Guard box! Lmk if you're interested 👍

Dollar for points second highest after admec. Bring your credit card

I got 7 Months to tear down my entire Sisters Army, re do them and get them ready for Codex Release.

There's an admech codex needing a summary!

Points per dollar there soo soo expensive

I am Alpharius

@TheRealCatoSicarius

8 ай бұрын

Heretic

You want to find the older 3rd ed models or recasts if you want repentia, their new scuplts are ugly as hell and they look like SM scouts with corsets instead of normal Repentia.

Huh, my friend just started sisters for his wife

Step one, get a 3d printer for half the price. Print infinite proxies. Profit.

Pro tip: dont