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@uncledungeonmaster1617

3 жыл бұрын

Subscribed

When my players rescued Gundren, I had him stricken with an ominous spider curse/poison that covered his body in webbings and left him drifting in and out of consciousness. My players carried him back to Phandalin and sought out Sister Garaele to heal him. It was beyond her powers to heal so she pointed them to Reidoth. So now they are on the quest to find and retrieve Reidoth to heal Gundren. When they get there I'm going to have Reidoth insist that he can't leave with the dragon there but warn them that they are crazy if they try to remove the dragon. This was all my way of hooking the druid and dragon into the story. They'll arrive tonight. This could be my first TPK as a DM, lol.

My two cents: Run Thundertree as is as a one-shot AFTER the resolution of Wave Echo Cave. Perhaps weeks or months later, the PCs catch word from Reidoth who sought them out after hearing about their heroism in Phandalin.

@heyitsMattyP

3 жыл бұрын

Excellent solution! You can have your dragon and eat it too :)

@youtigee

3 жыл бұрын

Thats exactly what im planning , Let those casters use their level 3 spells before the campaign ends

@alecroberts3023

3 жыл бұрын

Pretty much a DLC

@UmbraKrameri

3 жыл бұрын

That's probably what I'm going to do. I really like the idea of the Tundertree section as a self-contained little story, but it would be very hard to integrate into the starter set storyline, so I just won't bother with it. Another possible way to give hint to the players about this quest is the idea that in Nezznar's stuff there's a map in the Wave Echo Caves. Just let that be a map where Thundertree is marked and have a note on it with the promise of some magical weapon that the Black Spider would want to fetch and sell after he/she has dealt with the caves.

@mateofantasma

2 жыл бұрын

Good idea!

I turned Thundertree into a brass dragon for a social encounter. The brass was willing to share secrets about Wave Echo cave if the PCs could convince him. To go a level deeper, the brass dragon would stay invisible and throw his voice towards an ancient sphinx statue. The rumors of the area were that a 'sphinx oracle' could provide them with info. The brass dragon just liked visitors and gossip. My players got along with the dragon (disguised as a sphinx statue) who invited them back, then on their second visit she popped out from behind the statue with a friendly, "Hello!" Overall, I still got to play a dragon and play up alot of the cool aspect (especially the second visit) without fear of a TPK.

@niwniw2791

Жыл бұрын

Stealing this idea. ❤

The thing I used to fix venomfang is by turning it into a social encounter, instead of a violent one. I did this in one simple step, neznar stole venomfangs egg, and is holding it hostage in return for the dragon becoming its minion. Makes venomfang more interesting, and nezznar becomes instantly more intimidating.

@wombatt2031

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much, i were gonna run this adventure from the start in like 6 dayss and i were scrambling ways to redo this part. Since im a Completely NEW DM, i ahve barely played DnD before like 2 sessions that started THIS month, and i were gonna run Lost Mines for my friends but i realized that Nezznar was gonna be overshadowed as the video said. But this idea sounds soooo cool and im deffinetly gonna run this version thank you.

@DanDoesDnD

2 жыл бұрын

@@wombatt2031 glad I could help! Honestly I switched around a LOT of stuff, best list of changes I recommend. 1. DO NOT start the adventure how they suggest. Instead have the players meet in neverwinter, and have a festival. Just improv some games as skill checks and add some food and trinket stalls, give the player Inane little knick-knacks like yoyos or sticky hands (that item is actually my sorcerers personal fave) 2. Don't focus on the various guild things the book tries to shove down your throat, just focus on the lords alliance, and mabye get sister garale and the harpers involved if your party needs hints or help. All the other ones are pointless window dressing and will make the game feel stiff and awkward l 3. Be sure to foreshadow the doppelgangers, BUT DONT PLAY YOUR HAND TOO HARD OR SOON, I went too hard into it and my players never trusted another human being, they trusted VENOMFANG faster than the captain of the guard XD 4. Don't forget to weave subtle hints and clues that the spider may be watching them, if soneone rolls a decent Perception tell them they see some spiderweb in the trees, or mabye a small set of eyes watching them. Also be sure that if someone makes a nature check, describe how overall there is a surprising lack of spiders in the area, implying the spider is controlling and or hoarding them. 5. Do not be afraid to change or hand wave away anything else you don't like, bring in stuff from outside the book, or from other books. Homebrew shit or steal other people's homebrew. Just be sure to DM with confidence and your players will have a good time. Hope some of these tips helped as much as my first one, and good luck!

@robertmcginty4146

Жыл бұрын

Hmm... Keep him from getting to egg and smashing it. Now the stakes are higher.

Maybe switch the goblins out for kobolds? Then you could rework cragmaw cave with more tricky traps. Maybe even the castle too!

@heyitsMattyP

3 жыл бұрын

YES! Yes that's got the dragon juice

@Excelsiur1

3 жыл бұрын

This was my idea as well! With their love of mining, trapping, and serving dragons they are the perfect creatures to swap the goblins for!!!

@g.frankenberg

2 жыл бұрын

@@heyitsMattyP And have the Kobolds be aligned with Venomfang, so green Kobolds. There was a Kobold-Oneshot where one of the Kobolds had a Cloak of Protection that was basically just a cloak with a dragonscale as a magic treasure.

I feel like Venomfang, & the dragon cultists are just there to set the scene for Hoard of the Dragon Queen. They even use the same pictures for the cultists in both books. It feels kinda shoe-horned in, so like you suggest, I didn't use it in the main campaign. What I did instead was to run it as a coda. A kind of "last hurrah" for the newly level 5 characters to test their mettle against. It felt a lot like a one-shot with established characters instead of an extremely deadly distraction.

@heyitsMattyP

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah! WotC did those shoe-in things for like half these adventures - there's hooks in SKT to TOA to HotDQ etc etc etc. I'm not a fan in general, because it kind of dilutes whatever story their trying to tell. I think your approach here is a good solution.

@benvoliothefirst

3 жыл бұрын

@@heyitsMattyP Agreed. I think they were being apologists about HotDQ being subpar, and thought they'd kill two birds with one stone leading into Rise of Tiamat with this instead. The dragon certainly feels tacked on, but it's definitely not supposed to be a combat encounter! It's supposed to take some damage and fly away, just like the banshee.

@markandrews7630

7 ай бұрын

Actually if you read the pregenerated characters back stories the folk hero fighter knows about the dragon. Their ultimate goal is to drive the dragon away not defeat it, destroy the ash zombies and revive the town. That's why the dm notes say Venomfang flees at half hitpoints

1st off THANK YOU for this series! I’m including Venomfang as a main antagonist who has an uneasy alliance with the female Black Spider. Venomfang is revealed REALLY early when the group is riding to town to deliver the supplies to Phandalin. To make this work the main mcguffins to get the Forge of Spells roaring a few things are needed (1) a magical elven hammer that was the homebrew heist quest / one-on-one session zero and tutorial for the players (2) a Dwarven smith, Gundren and his brothers are just such Dwarves. And (3) Dragon’s fire to provide the magical flame 🔥. By having a quick cutscene of a Brass dragon and Venomfang wounding each other in an overhead battle for the claim of Phandalin, the group knows that there is an evil dragon as well as a good dragon in the area. Control of the mines is contested by the Black Spider and her minions. The long-term control of the mine will be up in the air once the green dragon notices that the old magical forge is operational again and a perfect place to lair in.

@heyitsMattyP

2 жыл бұрын

Sounds like you've got a good plan! Any effort put towards communicating that the dragon is the MAIN antagonist will go a long way :)

Very good stuff! When I ran LMOP (as first time DM) I heavily altered a lot of things. Thundtree was going to be a complete sidequest that would set up Venomfang as the adventure AFTER LMOP. I had a big plan that Venomfang would become the next BBEG but would get taken over by a primordial forest spirit and be driven mad. Then my players completely ignored every Thundertree hook and went to Wave Echo at level 4. Cest la vie!

@heyitsMattyP

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Adam! Players love ignoring plot hooks, but at least they didn't ignore the main Wave Echo Cave story haha, then you'd be in real trouble

@starshinewindlord2716

Жыл бұрын

I can see it now "hmm that dm sure wants us to go deal with a dragon, we'll do everything else but." / a ha! yes, yeah um sure, you've foiled my nefarious ... / good good i didnt wanna tpk you guys yet anyways.

This series is so underrated. I still keep coming back to watch these

Love the idea of having the Druid replace Sildar. Sildar just died in my campaign, so this is a perfect idea. Killed in pursuit of Agatha (do bear in mind, I'm combining LMoP and DoIP). I already had the Redbrands (unwittingly) working for the Dragon Cult! Fits in so well with this story plot. I've kept the Thundertree as a quest site for the puzzlebox. Black Spider is still a villain. But, she's a DIFFERENT villain... in much the way the the blonde German lady was a villain in a certain popular adventure movie series. Having Thundertree as the ENTRANCE to WEC is brilliant and would have simplified my life significantly... where were you when I needed you???

@heyitsMattyP

3 жыл бұрын

Great work KD! Where was I when you needed me? I was here, waiting this comment. The prophesy has been fulfilled.

@UmbraKrameri

3 жыл бұрын

Actually, now that I'm playing Icespire Peak and DMing the starter set at the same time, I see a huge appeal in meshing the best parts of these two stories together in a longer beginner-level adventure. Both have great story threads and locations in it, but most of the Icespire peak side quests feel very interchangeable and fillery, and the main story is not that strong either, so it could profit a lot from the more cohesive main storyline of the Starter Set.

I run a heavily modified Lost mines and Icespire peak where Cryovain is the end boss and Venomfang (named changed) is the warden of the forest. In the beginning of the campaign i tell the players theres a rumor that 2 dragons have been fighting in the area and theres a reward if they can kill them. Venomfang tries to scare off Cryovain but doesn't think hes really a threat since hes a white dragon but Cryovain has a magic eldritch item that curses Venomfang ( it was supposed to kill Venomfang outright but Venomfang is a arch druid and is using her magic to keep herself alive but is losing her maximum hp by 1 every day). Venomfang apprentice is in town and after the pc's deal with red brands she asks them to escort her to her master. she says she knows the forest better than any one but since the red brands broke her broom she cant get back on her own. I basically use Venomfang has the forest quest giver for all the stuff ive added to the forest area.

@heyitsMattyP

3 жыл бұрын

Love it! How do you feel about this change: Venomfang IS the apprentice - they can polymorph.

@marsmech

3 жыл бұрын

@@heyitsMattyP well I split Venomfang and the apprentice because i want to keep Venomfang weak for the entire adventure. if Venomfang ever get strong enough to deal with Cryovain she would. The apprentice is about ready to go through a rite of passage at the heart of the forest (a dungeon). when they they finish and get to the heart there's a magic apple. the apprentice takes the apple and it will reverse the curse (she gains 1hp a day until max).

@UmbraKrameri

3 жыл бұрын

Actually, now that I'm playing Icespire Peak and DMing the starter set at the same time, I see a huge appeal in meshing the best parts of these two stories together in a longer beginner-level adventure. Both have great story threads and locations in it, but most of the Icespire peak side quests feel very interchangeable and fillery, and the main story is not that strong either, so it could profit a lot from the more cohesive main storyline of the Starter Set.

Another great vid Matthew! Love that you expanded reasons for cutting this part of the adventure. I'm planning on running this as an epilogue to the main campaign.

@heyitsMattyP

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Alex! That's a great solution :)

@dansxmencomics

3 жыл бұрын

Good idea!

@billwhipple9039

3 жыл бұрын

Obviously I think my ideas are great- they're my ideas 😁 but I posted a comment with the general idea I've used. Thundertree is the first encounter, the druid, cultists, and venomfang can remain players throughout the story. It might be a reference when you plot your adventure

This is the content I crave

@heyitsMattyP

3 жыл бұрын

I made just for you Levi

Fantastic video as always! I agree it's best not to include Thundertree, but I have to admit your outline for a module rewrite focused on Venomfang is really interesting (especially the reworked Redbrands)! Now I might need to run this campaign again!

@heyitsMattyP

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you Andy!

I just ran Thundertree over the past two sessions. The final fight with Venomfang was one of the most fun and engaging battles I have run in a while. Every member was almost down and they were just able to beat it. Party of 5. I knew it was going to be a really hard fight. THEY knew it was an EXTREMELY hard fight. They planned, executed and the dice were in their favor. I do understand this can and often will be a TPK…. But man when I say it was epic. IT WAS EPIC. The dice told that story for my group. I will always love Thundertree for that.

@heyitsMattyP

3 ай бұрын

Nice one! Dragon fights are always iconic :)

Just spent time reading all these different ideas because I so deeply want to use Venomfang. Rather than a total re-write, here's my take, as best I could knock it together: Nezzar stole one of VF’s eggs, which gives her leverage. VF begrudgingly gave Nezzar her necklace of Dimension Door (1/day) but it only works so long as VF wants it too. At the end of the climactic fight with Nezzar, she’ll try to escape, but the necklace does nothing, and with her dying breath she curses “that scheming beast” and tells the party, “I could not beat it, what makes you think you can? If you’re smart, you’ll run.” As others have said, as they leave WEC, they meet VF in the entrance. Once at half-health, VF flees back to Thundertree. Green kobolds serving VF integrating w/ other factions to spread her influence and watch for Nezzar. - Goblins - Uneasy alliance, goblins treat them badly under Klarg; King Grol works them into his kingdom seeing VF as a way to secure his place - Redbrands - Switched to Greenbrands after Iarno arrived (coaxed by Nezzar), enjoying their dominion over Phandalin without knowing what the bigger goal is. (Droop is now a green kobold, the last of the emissaries to the Redbrands after the rest were fed to the Nothic.) - Conyberry - kobolds desecrating Agatha’s destroyed home, making her angry at Garaele (she healed one of them and helped them speak to a fallen comrade) - Bandits - Now a kobold lair keeping watch on Phandalin and the surrounding area. - Cultists - Still trying to win VF’s favor, tolerated only so long as they send some of their number out to search for Nezzar.

Dude I love your how to run LMOP vids, gonna run it myself soon and as a new DM these videos are very helpful

@heyitsMattyP

3 жыл бұрын

You'll love it! Let me know how your first session goes :)

I love this concept I’m currently writing it now. Thank you so much I would love more content on this!!

King Grol wants to expand his control of the surrounding forests, but is hampered by Venomfang's presence. Klarg wants either to impress Grol, or supplant Grol, and so he hatches a plan. Lots of squishy human-like adventures come and go along the roads, so Klarg has his goblin raiders attack and kidnap an adventurer that Klarg can force to go fight Venomfang. If the adventurer wins, Klarg can take credit, if the adventurer fails, Klarg doesn't care because he hasn't lost any of his own raiders. It also gives a reason for the goblins to attack the heroes as they want to capture more squishy adventurers.

@heyitsMattyP

3 жыл бұрын

DRAGON FIGHT CLUB That's a fun way to include the Cragmaws!

@yungsuccog8223

3 жыл бұрын

This is really dope! Would’ve NEVER thought of this

Thanks for this video! My party begged me to add the dragon back in, so I’m going to add in ANOTHER key to the forge, but it’s “optional”. When the party rescues Gundren, he tells them about this secret key/item that Nezzar is not privy to. If the party can wrest the key from the dragon’s chest, it contains an item with a one-time use “command monster” type spell. Ideally, the party can use it to take control of the forge guardian (a beholder, of course!) and use it in their fight against the Black Spider, whom I am going to beef up for dramatic effect.

@heyitsMattyP

3 жыл бұрын

Yes! Redundancies are good game design sometimes :) Love the extra options out there, and good job listening to your players

I came to this video to find out how to include Venomfang, but you actually did convince me not to include him. Bravo!

I've run the game a couple of times and the first time my party of experienced players killed Venomfang. They ended up drawing him out of the tower and then used some clever tactics to take him out. In my second run through the players were able to bring him down in HP enough that he escaped to save his life. Part of this was players making sure not to clump up and to use terrain to place obstacles between themselves and the dragon's breath.

Thank you so much for this content! About to start LMoP with some friends and family and as a first time gm, this series has helped me to tweak things for our group specifically. Can't wait to see how the players deal with these encounters.

I love these tips/videos. Mr. Perkins, you rock, sir.

@heyitsMattyP

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

I used your idea of the puzzle box (amazing btw) and gave it the power of disable the “magic barrier” that has the Wave Echo Cave. Black Spider took it so my players went to Reidoth who has been studying that box for years and was able to recreate its power and put it into an apple tree seed, making magic apples! But he ask them if they could help him with the dragon first (without killing him) and with Iarno who previously escaped and was now creating another faction there. My players loved this bc earlier when they were talking to Daran Edermath (the one that grows apple trees) they got the impression that he was in love with Reidoth before he went out to Thundertree to study that box, which I confirmed later through his adoptive daughter. They’re now working on reunite them 😂🧡🧡

@heyitsMattyP

Жыл бұрын

Oh cool! That sounds like a great little story :)

THANKS MATTHEW! I was really waiting for this!

@heyitsMattyP

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching mate :)

Love these videos! Been watching them multiple times as I prepare for Lost Mines. The way I'm planning on running Thundertree / Venomfang is to have him be the evil mastermind behind everything. Nezzar was expelled from the underworld for failing a trial of Lolth, became a Drider, and was hiding out in the tower at Thundertree. VF found him, convinced him to go find the lost Wave Echo Cave / Forge of Spells to get back into Lolth's good graces. The players find him in Thundertree, but they have the puzzle box and he knows it so he doesn't fight them. He WANTS them to go to the cave and unlock the forge of spells. After the final battle with Nezzar, they leave the cave and he swoops down and fights them. All of them are his pawns... At least, that's what I'm planning. Who knows what'll happen :)

I think this encounter is designed to teach players to be creative more than anything. Yes, it CAN be lethal if your players all charge in and don't think to do anything other than initiate combat, but I make sure my players get a very real sense of the intense danger that they're up against, and they almost always come up with some very creative ways to navigate the encounter. I have had players dropped to 0 here, but they've always been saved by another player. The key thing is that they don't NEED to kill the dragon, but to find a way to drive it off to fight another day (perhaps becoming a recurring thorn in their sides if you continue past the end of LMoP). I LOVE this encounter, especially for first time players who are brand new to the game because 1.) They get to finally come face to face with the second half of the entire game's name for the first time, and 2.) They get to feel incredibly powerful for "defeating" this intelligent, deadly creature, even if it's only by scaring it off. They know they accomplished something big.

I’m running LMoP as a first time DM, and I’ve taken out Thundertree but left Venomfang so far. On the players travels to Phandalin, the cleric did a perception check, because she was looking out for bandits and other threats, and she got a nat 20. So I told her that way off in the distance, just above the canopy of Neverwinter Wood, she briefly sees the form of a young green dragon fly around and then quickly dip back into the trees. This was mostly to get the players excited, and it worked. They’re all very new, with one first timer, so to them it was the coolest thing that could have happened on the road lol. So I figured after teasing a dragon being around, he should show up somewhere even though I’d decided to get rid of Thundertree. So my plan is to have him trying to take Wave Echo Cave as his lair, and that being the obstacle that the Spider can’t get past when the players catch up with him there. I gave my cleric a sealed puzzlebox as a suggested McGuffin, but hadn’t decided what was in it yet. I’m thinking now it will be a gold dragon egg, that can either be offered to Venomfang in exchange for him leaving WEC or hatched in the Forge of Spells which would then claim the cave as the baby gold dragons lair, forcing VF to leave, and saving him as the Big Bad in a later campaign. The cultists will still be around, but more as a social faction of dragon groupies than bad guys. We’ll see what my players do though! As newbies they seem somewhat keen to keep on the rails, so hopefully things pan out ok and they don’t all decide to just fight the dragon by themselves in the end lol.

@heyitsMattyP

Жыл бұрын

Dragons are exciting, for sure! And players want to fight them. Looks like you're integrating Venomfang well with the story :)

Great video and insight - hope one day I can run my own sesh!

@heyitsMattyP

3 жыл бұрын

You've come so far and I'm proud of you.

@benvoliothefirst

3 жыл бұрын

What're you waiting for?!

i love your videos, also hope ur break is going good

I've been struggling a bit with trying to figure out a way to add Venomfang, as it's always cool to fight a dragon, and I think I might've figured it out. Nezzra no longer wants to be a magical arms dealer, but instead is a green dragon stuck in her humanoid form. The force in Wave Echo Cave is the key to unlock her dragon form, and this is why she really wanted Gundren. After the PCs face off vs Nezzra, it will be too late as the spell has already been lifted. Nezzra gets to transform and take off, available to be fought in a one shot after the conclusion of the original storyline. That way I get to keep Nezzra as an even greater adversary than before, and have a really cool moment for my players. Just need to figure out the exact reason why WEC is the key to unlocking her true form...

I’m running two campaigns right now and was originally intending on using the starter set for one and the essential set for another. Thank god for this video, now I can run them both based off LoMP with two different flavors/using some of the dragon mechanics from Icespire Peak.

@heyitsMattyP

2 жыл бұрын

Glad to help!

This a great video. Well put together, and great points both for and against Thundertree. One downside I often encounter with dragons is that they're hard to incorporate throughout the adventure, not just at the end in their lair. Harder than humanoids at least. It's always a little lame when the first time the players meet a villain is also when they kill said villian. On the plus side, it's a lot easier for dragons to escape if they get into a fight away from their lair, and have a strong reason to fight to the death within their lair (their hoard).

@heyitsMattyP

3 жыл бұрын

Amen! Dungeon Masters love their secrets and their dramatic reveals, but sometimes they can kneecap their story's dramatic trajectory, robbing the players of those fun opportunities to roleplay with the baddies and develop that fun rivalry.

In my campaign, I borrowed a suggestion that I had seen in a couple of places, which is that the Black Spider is a Drider trying to use the Forge of Spells to reverse the curse set on her by Lolth. She doesn't have any long term plans for Phandalin; instead she just wants to reverse her curse at all costs. But since she located the Forge of Spells at the expense of others (i.e. the Rockbeards, the entire town, Sildar, etc), defeating her still gave a good deal of catharsis for the group. What the group then discovers FROM THE BLACK SPIDER is that Venom Fang is the real potential villain, staking out Phandalin from Thundertree. Basically, the young green dragon is an opportunist, waiting to see what if any wealth is still within Wave Echo Cave. So ultimately the plot twist was that the Black Spider was a red herring (though defeating her was still important to the PCs to avenge Gundren, the town, etc), and now the PCs realize that handing over the lost mine to the Rockseeker's may in fact spell DOOM for Phandalin since Venom Fang and the cult may descend upon it once it proves to be desirable... As would be expted the "greedy" dwarves will ignore the threat of Venomfang and thereby some real drama begins. Of course, this kind of adventure plot is good for players who like surprises and don't want a pure black & white universe. My players did not fight Venomfang at Thundertree, though they did encounter the cult and learned about him. If they had tried to fight him I was just going to have the druid transform into a thunderhawk to distract Venomfang long enough for the PCs to escape the city. Since the Black Spider was still at that time the main protagonist, I don't believe that the plot armor against Venomfang would have upset the PCs, IMO

Great, video. Perfect timing

@heyitsMattyP

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you! Hope it helps :)

My 3 level 4 players actually bodied the dragon. Albeit they played it very well. They convinced Reidoth to join, and he just did so much damage when I transformed him into a boar. Then the breath, our Battle Smith artificer used their steel defender to close the mouth of the dragon while it was charging, taking most of the damage since he only managed to close it half. But the steel defender was immune to poison so no real damage done. After getting it to half HP they kept attacking, the monk even managed to jump on top of it and ride it in mid-air, killing it after a few rounds and sending it down. They were definitely lucky with their rolls, but they used everything in their arsenal to kill it, which I think is what the young dragon was meant for. It's the role of the players to give everything they got in these kinds of encounters, and it's the roll of the DM to make sure it feels both challenging and fair. Story-wise, I'd probably remove the hook from Phandalin to go visit Reidoth in Thundertree. My players only went to thundertree because of the loot, making the experience feel more like "we chose this" instead of "we need to do this to progress the story". This makes it feel a lot more natural.

@heyitsMattyP

11 ай бұрын

Pig vs Dragon - love it!

I wanted my players to fight the dragon but not thundertree. So I had the black spider whisper as she was dying. “You have no idea what you have done”. And then upon exiting the cave in the main hall the dragon was there waiting. And one of my player spoke Draconic so they found out the black spider had a deal with Venomfang and could have made the same deal but they chose to fight it then. It worked really good even though it was kinda like, oh wait a dragon. The players ate it up. And I kept him in the cave so he couldn’t fly to make it easier.

@heyitsMattyP

3 жыл бұрын

Sounds fun! Players will be very forgiving when you're working to give them a dragon encounter

@Deucez754

3 жыл бұрын

@@heyitsMattyP yes man it worked out in a fun way. That's really all that matters right?lol

More of what I want Matthew. thanks

@heyitsMattyP

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the support V!

I had an idea of VenomFang being connected to the backstory of the forge and really wanna share it! I apologize for the length of this. Essentially change it so that the attacks on the Wave Echo Cave were done by Venomfang and dragon cultists instead of Orc mercenaries, and that those who used the forge attempted to create something to weaken V.F before the forge was lost. Although they were able to create an item from the forge to anchor V.F to the area of Thundertree (or maybe the surrounding area) and implanted it in him, they weren't able to create the weapon in time that would react with the item and fully weaken him. This is where the puzzle box and the Black Spider comes in. Inside the puzzle box would be the hilt of the weapon that was going to be used to weaken V.F and the hilt would also be used as the way to enter the forge itself. The Black Spider's intentions are basically the same as in Matt's previous videos, to become a magical arms dealer, however the idea of the potential publicity that would come from slaying a dragon with one of the weapons that was made by her? She would be able to sell her weapons like crazy! Thus that is why she wants the forge. To not only be a weapons dealer but also to have the one weapon capable of weakening V.F enough to kill him and get the fame for her business that comes with it. This does bring up some issues with V.F's age and interaction with the party, but I think it could potentially be interesting to set up a dynamic where V.F want's the puzzle box destroyed while The Black Spider wants it for herself. What do you guys think? Any potential suggestions?

@heyitsMattyP

3 жыл бұрын

Awesome plot! Love it. Someone suggested using Thundertree as a epilogue, and it sounds like your ideas here lean really well into that :)

@JasonLee-zy2dv

3 жыл бұрын

Excellent idea! V.F. would clearly not be a young wirmling. But the sword hilt could be a piece to a sword of dragon slaying, which would help the players deal with a harder V.F.

In my first run through, a well-loved NPC hustled off to Thundertree to find Reidoth for reasons, and the players chased after her not knowing whether she was safe. Spoiler alert, she wasn't! She was about to be lunch! I also have VF able to morph into a "strangely green" humanoid who scoots around town, hides in trees, claims to be Reidoth, and asks, "are you SURE you want to take that pile of treasure?". This made the WHOMP! I'M A DRAGON! reveal pretty epic. Also, the cultists stole her egg, and boy was she mad. The party negotiated for it as a bargaining chip, which worked wonders. I searched out some good Forgotten Realms lore and gave VF a recent tryst to roll this into a larger piece of the campaign. Running it similarly for group 2 tonight and next week. For first-timers, I also suggest making the heirloom jewelry a minor magic item (or at least MUCH more valuable), otherwise it doesn't make much sense. Love your grand re-write ideas. Green is the new red!

What I did is put some information that would eventually lead the party to discovering where Gundren was being held since my party weren't finding him. So then the party went to Thundertree to retrieve the information, but the dragon was gone so it ended up being more of a stealth session/racing against when Venomfang came back. We've now completed that book and I plan on expanding Thundertree's use and bringing Venomfang in fully later.

@heyitsMattyP

3 ай бұрын

Yeah sick! Good way to integrate the content :)

Amazing, thank you!

@heyitsMattyP

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the support!

The one thing that has to be said about all of this is that, sure cut it IF you don't plan on carrying on with this campaign by other means (homebrew or other existing modules). But i would advocate for keeping it if you want to start tying more story and adventures to come. While i myself am fairly new to DMing, see this Campaign as more of an "ACT 1" in a series of acts. I plan on making Nezznar just another Cog in a bigger machine, or have him escape and return later on with a new plan in mind to achieve whatever it is that he seeks from the forge. That being said, i do want to say thanks, you gave me some things to think about. I just want to make this my own instead.

@heyitsMattyP

3 жыл бұрын

No problem Grim! Any ideas you have for _your game_ are always going to be better than what either I or the module can suggest :) Follow your heart!

You could set up Red hand of Doom with the Goblins, which begins at Level 6! Make them Dragoncultist gobbos! Should be easy to set the campaign up in that area. Great video, you deserve waaay more Subs! Looking forward to more:)

@heyitsMattyP

3 жыл бұрын

Oooohh! I should have a crack at reading the Red Hand of Doom and see if it's worth making a guide about :)

@TheSlayer1502

3 жыл бұрын

@@heyitsMattyP Its a pretty solid module from 3.5 edition, but it has been converted for 5th by fans. I haven't played it yet, only read it, but Its about a goblinoid dragon Cult that destroys several tons and subjugates several giant tribes and other montrous races under a Halfdragon Hobgoblin-Warlord called AZAVAR KUL. (I cant not write that awesome name in allcaps.) Matthew Colville made a great video on it, and I would love to hear your take onit!

@heyitsMattyP

3 жыл бұрын

Nice! I'll take a look :) And if I make a video on it, I'll make sure to have some kind of spicy title like, "Matt Colville was WRONG about the Red Hand of Doom!?!? #drama"

@civzation471

2 жыл бұрын

@@heyitsMattyP Did you check out Red Hand of Doom? If you liked it where is the video? ;D Great job with this LMoP series. Thank you very much.

I've run Lost Mines twice now, and am getting ready to run it again, and here's what I can say about Thundertree. I agree that it doesn't really make sense for it to be included except for the fact "dragon" should be included with the dungeon, but my players reacted to it in 2 different ways. The first group had a blast fighting the dragon, and didn't have any real struggle in the fight probably because I didn't really use the breath attack or something else made things easier for them. My other group never went to Thundertree, but then got EXTREMELY disappointed when they heard that there was a dragon there and to this day some of them still wish they went. While it should be important for Gundren to be a part, the book as written not only has a heavy chance for Gundren to die, but there is also the chance that they don't find the map either and leave the castle, stuck with where to go. So that leaves the other two paths of searching out Reidoth for the location, or asking Agatha where it is with their one question (which can also circumvent things). I do like the suggestions about focusing the game around Venomfang instead, but I'm just gonna ask the players what they want to do before we start. If they choose to still play the game as written, then I'm just going to change the cultists in there to dopplegangers from the Black Spider trying to get Venomfang as an ally to eventually guard the cave after it's under control, with when he takes a third of his health to start calling for a truce and to instead turn on the Black Spider (with Venomfang planning to claim the mine for himself in the end.) But the biggest struggle I had as a new dm was realizing that I could shift around and change content, so I know how messing with things is very daunting for a new dm.

@heyitsMattyP

Жыл бұрын

Those are some experiences worth thinking about. It's actually kind of tragic that one of your groups still regrets not fighting the dragon :(

My group had bad luck at level 3 as VF went first and did the breath. They ran out of there like the end of the Benny Hill Show. After they beat Black Spider at late level 4, they immediately went back to ambush Venomfang. Got a surprise round and utilized climbing/flying to cut off his escape out the roof, and he was dead in 2.5 rounds.

@heyitsMattyP

Жыл бұрын

Well done to your players :)

I'm keeping it in!

Why do the Cragmaw gobbos kidnap Gundren in the thundertree version? Reidoth is a clever druid who has narrowly escaped Venomfang's clutches years before and, importantly knows the secret to activating the forge of spells within Wave Echo Cave. Venomfang has contracted out the goblins of Cragmaw Castle to kidnap the man who lives at a certain address on the outskirts of Phandelver. Unfortunately, the goblins snagged Reidoth's husband, Gundren Rockseeker. That gives the goblins a reason not to kill Gundren, the druid an existing relationship with the dragon, and gives Reidoth a reason to approach the party to save Gundren! His days of adventuring are long behind him and he needs someone to save his love

@heyitsMattyP

3 жыл бұрын

YES! Totally works for replacing SIldar with Reidoth too! Great job :)

Blahhh you convinced me! No thundertree in my first campaign as a DM!

If I made Venomfang the villain I would change all the goblins into kobolds.

@heyitsMattyP

3 жыл бұрын

That's a good solution!

Thundertree is the best part of the start pack. It works fine if the party is not stupid and the DM is not brutal.

I left the Orcs from Wyvern Thor in, and had the party encounter them long after taking out the Cragmaw goblins. This allowed the orca to be a scouting/raiding party trying to fill the vacuum left by the hideout and castle being cleared out.

@heyitsMattyP

2 жыл бұрын

Very good! Glad you found a use for them. I'm working in more LMOP content and am planning to take another look at the whole Wyvern Tor situation next month.

@RamiroRamirez-xi5mn

2 жыл бұрын

@@heyitsMattyP what’s even better is that Hamon Kost was left alive, and he now has the corpses of the orcs as zombies. The party is currently on the look out for him, unaware of that fact.

The best way I've found to use Venomfang is of you're going to follow on with the Divine Contention etc quests. Use it to foreshadow the huge green dragon in them.

@heyitsMattyP

Жыл бұрын

Oh I still haven't read anything for the Essentials Kit! But in 2023, I'm planning to read every 5E adventure :)

@alarin612

Жыл бұрын

@@heyitsMattyP Good hunting.

All valid points on why not to include Thundertree but I plan on using LMoP as a stepping stone into the Red Hand of Doom campaign. Venomfang, the cultists and the hobgoblins more than anything in LMoP really set the stage for RHoD.

@heyitsMattyP

Жыл бұрын

Yeah if you can find some purpose for the area, seems like a good fit!

Love your ideas about story arcs and keeping a single villain in the crosshairs for the whole story. Unfortunately we've been playing "by the book" for a few weeks now and the party has gotten hints about both Thundertree AND the black spider. I was thinking about transitioning to Ice Spire Peak content right after this - since it is based out of Phandalin as well. Thinking maybe the dragon at Thunertree and the Dragon at IceSpire are one and the same. We can speed through (and make possible) the Thundertree content by saying that Druid is essentially just using the party as bait to get the dragon out of the tower. He can swoop in with some cool shapeshifting and powerful attacks to *just barely* keep the party from dying, and dragon flies off to lick its wounds, planting the seeds for it to rehouse somewhere else (icespire peak) later, and get back to the wave echo cave story line. Or maybe run them side by side with a random check the skies for dragon roll plaguing them wherever they go and get the dragonslayer sword as a reward at completion of the wave echo cave. Does it matter much if it's a green dragon instead of white dragon at icespire peak?

@heyitsMattyP

3 жыл бұрын

Sounds like a fun combination! I don't think it matters if you use a green or white dragon - the players won't mind. One thing I would caution against though is having the druid (or any NPC) jump in to save the day at any point - it might make the players feel like you're giving the cool heroic moments to the players rather than them.

My idea would be to potentially make the Black Spider and Venomfang work in tandem, as if the Black Spider were the final roadblock to facing off Venomfang, who had been deceiving everyone from the start (which is a green dragon's schtick anyway). I think it can work.

@heyitsMattyP

2 ай бұрын

Good idea!

Hey! Been watching all of your LMoP guide videos and they’ve been very helpful since I want to try my hand at being a DM. That aside I have an idea or two about how to make Venomfang the BBG… or rather how to modify the goblins, orcs, and other minions. I’m sure someone suggested before because it seems obvious, but I’m going to say it anyway: Replace the goblins and orcs with kobolds. They are dragon fanatics and even think being eaten by a dragon is the best thing that could happen to them. And also replace some of the other creatures like hoggoblins with dragon cultists. Now normally this area is filled with orcs and goblins, but you could say that they were driven up into the mountains by the followers of Venomfang. SPOILERS FOR ICESPIRE PEAK BELOW! This could also be a good hook in case you plan on running Dragon of Icespire Peak right after this; they orcs just had to deal with a green dragon chasing them of of their homes and into the mountains, and NOW they have to deal with a white dragon driving them out of their new homes and back down into the lower lands which have been ransacked by the kobolds and/or destroyed by the party. This will make them want to get stronger so they can’t be pushed around anymore… so they turn Talos the God of storms. Now you have an explanation for all the orc worshiping Talos and having to deal with them while the party is trying to deal with the new white dragon.

@heyitsMattyP

2 жыл бұрын

Oooh yeah, that's a solid way to make the dragon the villain with a little legwork :)

@Bentron88

2 жыл бұрын

@@heyitsMattyP Thank you! And yeah it does take leg work but it’s doable. In theory you could also use this as an excuse to make the spell forge work in your game since kobolds are quite a bit better with tinkering, repairing, forging, and magic them goblins and orcs. So if/when the players defeat this new foe and you all agree to continue exploring the sword coast they have a place they can go to to forge their own magic gear at a MUCH faster rate then what the normal rules say. I’m not a DM yet but I’m guessing that players will be absolutely love the idea of making their own stuff then just getting handed some “random” gear they happened to find while dungeons diving.

I plan to run LMOP into the essentials kit campaign, Dragon of Icespire Peak, and it’s subsequent expansions. I’m going to homebrew a little bit and take inspiration from the Tyranny of Dragons and make the Dragons the big deal. I envision Thunder Tree as a teaser of the things to come after LMOP is the adventuring parties origin story. Venomfang is going to drop some cryptic hints.

@heyitsMattyP

Жыл бұрын

If you're leading into any other dragon themed story, Thundertree is a worthwhile inclusion for sure :)

I want to have a dragon appear somewhere in the campaign but I agree that this is not the best place to put one while still maintaining the black spider as the villain. I’ve decided that the guardian of the forge of spells is going to be a dragon, and the puzzle box will contain something (still undecided on what) will have draconic writing engraved on it. One of my players is playing a dragonborn, so this would be a really neat way to include their character.

@heyitsMattyP

6 ай бұрын

That's a good idea! Just remember to foreshadow the dragon :) I'm looking into a way to make Thundertree relevant to The Shattered Obelisk, because there's a dragon in that last dungeon of that campaign. Still working on it though!

I homebrewed my setting to include a city where dragons and humans live alongside one another in a polite, if tense, peace and Venomfang is a young kid dragon who ran away from home because he heard one too many stories about the dragons of old and wanted to be big and scary like them. If the party goes to Thundertree, they'll find the cultists trying to capture the young dragon, and then in swoops Big Mama, who's been searching far and wide for her lost son. I hope for this to be a moment where the party can parley with the dragons so that i can seed the main plot (aka Dragonlance). Might be a bit of a stretch, but it's what I'm working with lol.

@heyitsMattyP

Жыл бұрын

Sounds fun! Good luck :)

How I ran it was that I wanted the party to face off against Glass-Staff at some point instead of just letting him get away, so I threw Venomfang in the bin and replaced him with Glass-staff, and made Thundertree the Redbrand's stronghold. And rather than being abandoned, there are still people living there, but Glass-Staff is holding the town hostage and forcing Reidoth to be a medic for the Redbrands in exchange for the people's safety. Sildar and Glass-Staff were adventuring buddies with Reidoth in the past, so Sildar points the party to recruit Reidoth after finding out Nezznar has poisoned Gundren, and Reidoth apparently has had plenty experience with Drow poison in the past.

@heyitsMattyP

8 күн бұрын

Sick! I love the idea of transforming the location like that.

I played this as a player and the party had a kobold sorcerer who convinced Venomfang to move to Cragmaw castle if we cleared it out for him, then he convinced the cultists that Venomfang wanted them to help clear it out to prove their commitment. The rest of the party followed behind on the trip to Cragmaw, when we got there the kobold walked into the castle like he belonged there, led the cultists up to the altar room before the goblins attacked then "peace, outed" out of an arrow slit due to his small size. Honestly, it was the highlight of the campaign. I'm now working to prep LMoP as an adventure to DM at some point and you've convinced me to cut it, at least as part of the main story line, it may be a nice epilogue. I'm thinking I will take the zombies, spiders and twig blights and put them in a map of a ruined Conyberry, as well as the treasure the woodworkers wife hinted at, plus other things the previous inhabitants had to leave behind in a hurry.

Hi Mathew, I mentioned that this campaign has everything D&D has to offer, specifically mentioning Dragons and Dungeons. I feel as though I owe my players the option to die by Venomfang. I thought I'd use this encounter as a way to retrieve the puzzlebox, and the Black Spider wound't try it. Venomfang soars accross the sky if it detects the players, waiting for them to be in the open to attack. They can attempt to stealth their way throught he buildings looking for a puzzlebox.

im so glad you made this video idk if you still read this but heres what i got planned for my adventure. so i decided to make the black spider a wyrmkeeper “priestest of tiamat” and the wave echo cave holds a catalyst she needs to attempt become a dragon her self. then leading it in to tyranny of dragons when the hard back comes out in a few days. what do you think about merging the black spider and the cult of dragons to go in to hoard of the dragon queen where phandahlin is in flames not greenist

@heyitsMattyP

Жыл бұрын

Yeah i think that's a good idea! If you're using Thundertree to lead into the Tiamat campaign, that's a good reason to include Venomfang.

I've been trying to decide what to do with Thundertree for my upcoming third run of LMoP (first time, we never used it, second time I used it later on). Now I'm thinking that I really like the idea that the entrance to the cave is in Thundertree. For one thing, the location of the cave in relation to Phandalin has always felt really amorphous and vague to me; this would give it a more definite location. Maybe Thundertree was founded centuries ago as, basically, a company town operated and owned by the collective that owned the mine. The mine was destroyed (maybe by orcish marauders, maybe by something they released within, I don't know) and the town fell to ruin. At some point, Venomfang was drawn here, possibly by his innate sense that treasure is nearby. Trouble is, he can't get into the cave; he's too big (or maybe he needs a key or tool of some kind to get in). (I'll note here too that I think I'd change the kind of dragon Venomfang is. Maybe make him a Young Black Dragon, or even a Young White Dragon, to make him a little less lethal - though still pretty tough! Might also reskin him to green, change the damage type back to poison, if I really wanted to keep the name Venomfang. Or, I might make it any color I like, and name him something cool, like Caiannoroth or Kargorog or Sharthaxis or something like that, I don't know) The way I run the game, the NPC running the Lionshield Coster is actually secretly the Black Spider, interacting with the party on a regular basis and hearing about their exploits (thereby keeping tabs on them). At some point (perhaps by saving Gundren), they'll learn that the cave is under Thundertree, and the Black Spider will somehow learn this, either from them or through an NPC that they tell. If they tell no one, maybe Gundren mentions it to her; he's a notorious talker! Now, everyone in the area knows there's a dragon in Thundertree, so she goes to treat with him; she tries to make a deal with the dragon. I haven't worked out what she can offer him yet, or how I'd determine whether or not the deal works out, or what she'd do if it doesn't, but I've got the wheels turning now. I definitely feel like the party should face down a dragon at some point, it's just a matter of how to implement it. My main issue with this plan is that it would mean that the dragon is not the final fight; he'd be guarding the entrance to the cave. I could have the dragon flee if the party gets him down to half HP, only to ambush them upon their exit of the cave, not sure. I'll be thinking about it. I'd probably scrap most of the enemies in Thundertree, and probably the druid too, in favor of maybe one or two more appropriate ones; like maybe some representatives of the Cragmaws whom the Black Spider has sent to negotiate with the dragon on her behalf. Anyone else have any other ideas?

@heyitsMattyP

2 ай бұрын

Seems like you're cooking something good here! I'm about to re-run, and I'm thinking of somehow tying this dragon situation to the dragon in the last dungeon of Phandelver and Below.

Possible fix for the goblins, don't know if it's been said already, but make them Kobolds! Then they can be the security forces of Venomfang. Maybe he had the Kobolds kidnaps Gundren so that the secret of the forge is well...kept secret.

@heyitsMattyP

3 жыл бұрын

Good solution!

I gave Venomfang the ability to transform into the Spy. Mac, a roguish man with piercing emerald green eyes. He befriended a party member, and talked him into a carriage robbery to demonstrate his value. Now that he is close to the party, he stole a bunch of high value gear from the party by passing a note saying “I am the slave of a dragon that is around the corner, this is a robbery, hand over your and do not react at all or else my master will kill us with his breath” even though Mac IS Venomfang. As a fight broke out in Cragmaw Castle, he snuck away and took king grols treasure and map. Leaving a note “ye snoozith ye loseth

@heyitsMattyP

3 жыл бұрын

Sounds great! Good job seeding your villain :)

@benvoliothefirst

3 жыл бұрын

@@heyitsMattyP "You snoozeth, you loseth" should be on every adventurer's grave, lol. You absolute monster! Hahaha

@GettyFan08

3 жыл бұрын

Benjamin von Sück I’m an absolute dragon.

Planning to run phandelver, my idea for this is to include it after wave echo with a Newley made dungeon in mount hotnew, the new plot is that after wave echo cave collapsed the human wizards hit the key for the mine (a firebrand jewel in my version) within the mountain under the eye of a red dragon who wants it back. They are introduced after wave echo cave as the true final boss.

@heyitsMattyP

2 жыл бұрын

Sounds rad! If you put the work into signposting the dragon before it shows up in the final battle, I reckon that will work well :)

My solution is to keep Thundertree out of LMoP completely and run it separately instead or insert it into Dragon of Icespire Peak from the Essentials Kit. It fits in much better there with just a little tweaking. You can also use the dragon cultists as a lead in to Rise of Tiamat, allowing you to skip Hoard of the Dragon Queen altogether.

@DrachHeinz

2 жыл бұрын

Love this idea, and I had a very similar thought - as well as following up with Tiamat! Well played, sir! Did you end up going this route? Any insight on how it worked out?

So I've only DMed one-shots so far but I bought LMOP because of this video series. I love all your changes and advice, but want my players to have a dragon in D&D especially when there is a dragon on the cover. I'm tempted to try swapping VenomFang for a Copper dragon maybe have him make the party clear ash zombies and spiders out of Tiptree for him. Maybe I'll make Tiptree available as a sidequest on route to Cragmaw castle and offer information about goblin defences as a reward for completing the quest. I'll need to think of a way to tie it all together and foreshadow things before my party gets that far.

@heyitsMattyP

3 жыл бұрын

Nice one Eric! I'm super flattered to have helped you pick a campaign to run. If all the players want is a dragon fight, I would make a dragon be the guardian of the Forge of Spells. And make whichever is in the puzzle box be something that gives the dragon disadvantage on all rolls if the party has it. That way, you're not diluting the story by including a separate sidequest, and the party gets to fight a dragon at the end. Just make sure to let the players know early that the guardian is a dragon!

I've used Fred's advice as well as yours to modify this Adventure and I am moving Venomfang to the Wave Echo Cave area and saving it for the Finale if my players defeat the Black Spider in less than 4 rounds. What better place for a Green Dragon to establish its Lair?????

Other idea, which might be too busy but might work if you can draw out the campaign, Venomfang is also looking for Wave Echo Cave, and might even have some servants (Dragon Cultists are successfully enslaved?) participating in the search. Before the party dislikes the Black Spider, she lets them know about this Dragon being an issue. She might even give them a potion of poison resistance or something if they agree to help her drive off Venomfang. Maybe she even comes along with them or has a plan to forge a message from a stronger metallic dragon. Maybe her plan is to kill Venomfang and use his scales with the Spell forge to create super powerful scale mail. Maybe this is why the party hates her. She abandons them right before the encounter or tries to steal the puzzle box after the encounter.

I’m tying my MoP campaign into taking my players on to SKT next so I am trying to find ways for Thundertree to eventually lead into SKT and Icespire Peak.

I'm about to run this campaign, I've chosen to have venomfang as a dragon the puzzle box is stolen from by gundran, his brothers, sildar and the players in the prologue. He's sleeping to begin with and so taken by surprise and overwhelmed. But the black spider still shows up after and is able to speak with the dragon and leaves some of his lackeys as the cultists to serve the dragon and help him heal and sooth his ego. Venomfang is a VERY young dragon in this and has been humbled and injured just enough that he stays in thundertree. When the party faces him again with the help of the druid he flies off and is not seen again. If we keep playing together then 2 campaigns from now I'll have him be the surprise BBEG who was behind many horrors they see in the next 2 campaigns all as a way to slowly increase his confidence and power to allow him to come into his own and finally get revenge. Part of his plan will be to destroy the party, phandelver and gundran etc years later. Wish me luck!

@heyitsMattyP

Жыл бұрын

Good luck!

I like to run the Black spider as an agent of venomfang (venomfang is his patron on the surface, a vadar/palpatine relationship if you will.) Im also thinking of a situation similar to jarlaxle in that the black spider is seekeing to setup a surface empire, and offers the forge of spells to the dragon for his assistance. As green dragons always crave items of unique value and craftsmanship, what fits that better than the forge of spells? In this way it can still be run similarly to normal, just redirect back at the end after facing the black spider to facing his boss, the dragon. Additionally, the dragon may offer to let the players replace the black spider and rule the region at his side instead (for all you evil players out there)

My idea is put a lair under the Echo cave. Venonfang has take over the "deep level" of the mine and now he and Black spider are enemies. Now you can cut Thundertree! -- or use it to give that info to the players.

@heyitsMattyP

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah combining the two is a fun idea! I'd just caution you to make sure you foreshadow the dragon somehow :)

@1979fsa

3 жыл бұрын

@@heyitsMattyP :-) you may use thundertree so the cultists have this information.

For my session two the PC's finished off the redbrand hideout and i panicked and set them to Thundertree but I already had all mentions of Nezzar in the game up until this point so I took the dragon outside and allowed them to make a dex saving throw to avoid the cone of Fenomfang's breath weapon and then they managed to kill him and in the room they found a note from Nezzar saying "A little welcome gift to Phandalin, Adventurers"

So, my two cents, even if a bit late :) I always want to combine Lost Mines and Icespire Peak together for one cohesive adventure. For that, I include the following changes: - Venomfang and Cryovain are rivals, - Cryvovain defeated Venomfang in combat before the beginning of the adventure, now a weakened Venomfang is trying to find allies/Chess pieces to use against the white dragon - Venomfang wants the party to find the forge of spells to craft weapons against Cryovain, but mainly strengthen itself - Venomafang has an amulet of Polymorphing allowing it to interact with the party, similar to your idea of using Nezzar - The black spider is another Rival for the wave echo cave, but potentially allies him-/herself with Venomfang - The Redbrands gain power due to the Townmaster cowering because of the dragon attack - Gundren, Iarno, Sildar and Nezzar know each other from their own adventuring days -> the Forge of Spells is the reason they broke up - The different parties in Icespire Peak, the Gnomes, the Dwarves and the Wizard Tower at the Old Owl Well (Human Wizards) have necessary McGuffins to enter/traverse the Wave Echo Cave and reignite the Forge of Spells - The displaced Orcs, the Anchorites, are a source of Chaos, trying to reclaim the Icespire Peak, sow Chaos and can be aligned with Nezzar, who offers them access to weapons crafted/enhanced at the Forge of Spells (though they do not know how, just that the offer is there) - Cragmaw Castle etc. is also still there, offering clues on the Wave Echo Cave (the fortress fell during the Orc Invasion centuries ago) but now it includes Kobold minion the Cragmaw Tribe enslaved to help repair the castle and create traps. The Kobolds are minions of Venomfang, who rather have the castle for itself and/or sees that as robbing her hoard. - The Entrance to the Wave Echo Cave is connected to the Dwarven Excavation Quest/Axeholm and only a McGuffin in the other place allows any party access to the Cave below - Final Battle will be against Cryovain/Venomfang or both or, for clever parties, they can pit them against each other and finish off the winner

@g.frankenberg

2 жыл бұрын

For some added benefits and Spoiler alert: - Glassstaff is actually a Doppelganger (introducing the Doppelgänger earlier) that took the place of the missing Iarno - Why was Iarno missing? He got his hands on some forbidden knowledge, courtesy of Venomfang. A cursed grimoire and now he haunts the caverns of Tresendar Manor as the ... drumrolll ... Nothic!

@josephballard1

11 ай бұрын

@@g.frankenberg I am also thinking of planting "Monteith" the doppelganger as Iarno and adding hints of him earlier. I am also combining lost mines and icespire peak but I'm adding tyranny of dragons afterwards.

What if the black spider is an agent of Venomfang? Perhaps the dragon needs feet on the ground to accomplish its goals, and the blackspider could even be trying to manipulate venomfang for her own gain?

I'm late to the party, but here's my 2 cents: At the end of the day, LMoP is basically a really good first campaign for the "Dungeons & Dragons" RPG. As such, it has (and should have) a goal to present to the players a little bit of everything a D&D game can have... so there are lots of monsters, several enemies, some interesting locations, some dungeons, some mystery... and A DRAGON. It's even on the name of the system.

@heyitsMattyP

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I think it would be important to give players that classic D&D experience of fighting a dragon. My issue is more of a cost-benefit problem with how much effort I think it would take to integrate the dragon into the story in a way that fits my vision of the adventure. But there's every chance that fighting a dragon is just SO RAD that it wouldn't matter if it felt kind of janky.

@mawkeetwo

Жыл бұрын

@@heyitsMattyP And maybe, as someone else pointed out, it could be handled as a "one shot" adventure AFTER the wave echo cave ends. I think that's what I'll do with my current players lol

I'm currently running both LMoP and Dragon of Icespire Peak simultaneously for the same group. At my players request, because both campaigns take place in the same location and they're experienced players, the events of both campaigns occur simultaneously. Cryovain and Venomfang currently are about to start brawling with each other over hunting ground if my players don't kill one of them first. (They plan on killing both eventually so it doesn't fully matter but Cryovain will go down first as they're on their way to Wave Echo Cave now and plan to ascend the mountain after securing the spell forge. My party consists of a Wild Magic Sorcerer/toy maker and a Knowledge Cleric of Vecna. (They have allies to help out now that it's the endgame of the plot).

@heyitsMattyP

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah nice! I still haven't read the Essentials Kit adventure, but i'll get to it eventually

Feeding Raw!

@heyitsMattyP

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

I use Venomfang as a traffic cop who keeps my party from taking too much time in the woods talking out shit.

@heyitsMattyP

3 жыл бұрын

"That's a code 3 woods-shitting violation. You are going straight to prison sir."

I agree I shouldn't include Thundertree, BUT we ran with the premade characters and my fighter is really invested in making Thundertree great again because that's his background, so the party went to Thundertree when I thought they would go to Cragmaw castle aand... here I am :D

@heyitsMattyP

2 жыл бұрын

Haha I know that feeling! "I know I'm making this harder for myself... but DRAGON!"

It took my American ears until this video to realize you're saying "Nezzar," not "Nezza." XD

@heyitsMattyP

3 жыл бұрын

Follow your heart, Kevin.

Starting LMOP this saturday, my plan is to make Thundertree a tie in to Tyranny of Dragons for after the game

@heyitsMattyP

2 ай бұрын

Good idea!

I have a question, when you would say the goblins wanna find the dragon horn, how it comes, from who they know, that they have to kidnapp Gundren?

@heyitsMattyP

3 жыл бұрын

Maybe they are, like, super slick? They have a spy network? They could get an upgrade in the rework. OR maybe they don't know - maybe it was just dumb luck! They could have learned about it from Gundren after attacking him.

I thought that Venomfang was the main villain when I purchased this!

Well. Some time in the past I joined right in the middle of LMOP to the party of murderhobos, who already slew this dragon, and it was a piece of cake for them. Wonder, if it was luck, or thoughtful planning and minmaxing characters

@heyitsMattyP

10 ай бұрын

Yeah it's not an unbeatable fight, but it's still got a pretty high kill count I rekon!

@antykwariatroznostek4732

10 ай бұрын

@@heyitsMattyP Imagine this dragon being mind controlled by Lolth parasite-like device planted and controlled by Black Spider (male or female). What it makes from BS? And motivation: kiling Lolth spiders by dragon (perhaps she had plans for them, or blessed them), strengthening The Web by BS by controlling dragon, and through him the cult (either for rivalling Jarlaxle web in Luskan, to prove him that BS is as good as Jarlaxle, to brake free from Menzzoberenzzan influence, or if BS is female to be chosen as next head of the house (lets say House De’Vir) and perhaps being chosen by Lolth herself). Motivations to controll the dragon can differ, but effect on players when they discover, that dragon was mind controlled by Black Spider… priceless

As you mentioned having a dragon villain is just cool Too cool to cut The dark elf villain is a cool trope of D&D as well IMHO we do not need to cut any of them But we can add more to antagonise the dragon So you can have level one villain Klarg, level 2 glass staff, level 4 black spider , level 5-6 maybe ? Venomfang and the dragon cultists ? Let's try to re adjust the encounter or provide the players with something that can help them in that fight I have not figured it out yet, but also remember it is a part of the folk hero fighter background I think it can be done that way

@zenovkayos5811

3 жыл бұрын

And as you mentioned the dragon can transform to a humanoid Maybe it tries to trick the party and get them to bring him something from the forge of spells So they take the bait, finish a quest , level up to level 6 and then they have to end him or follow him Whichever they prefer And give them some magic items designed to fight the dragon Resistance rings Mobility spells / items like boots of misty step A scroll that prevents the dragon from flying (skyrim inspired)

I think personally I would turn thundertree into an old dwarven settlement which had wave echo cave and the forge hidden below it, that way the knowledge of an old abandoned settlement can be common knowledge to the area but the location of the cave/forge itself is still a secret. Change up the goblins for Kobolds to better fit into the theme and have the black spider be the polymorphed alter ego of Venomfang. That way he/she (depending on your preference) can still be involved a lot more in the campaign without altering much more than the final locations and also being a massive surprise and climatic final boss fight for the party.

I would rework the goblins at Cragmaw ever so slightly by writing in that they need the Forge of Spells to bless an object (shield? Sword?). This is necessary to complete the reconsecration of the chapel to Maglubiyet.

Am about to run LMoP and is my first time as Dm. I want to run the dragón but yep im new right? But is it a bad Idea to, If my adventures finish the campaing, transition to Dragón of icespire peak and have the venomfang as a "we know were the dragon of is...oh wait it's a diferent dragon"?

Cragmaw Tribe + Venomfang as Main Villain = Green Kobold Tribe! Plus, it's another clue from start to appearance of main villain - everyone who evil is green. Hell, it's even exist on old england myth (green eyes and other witchy stuff)

I have been thinking that maybe Glassstaff could have been Venom Fang all along, and The Cult of The Dragon could have been disguised as the Redbrands. If you have already combined this with the essentials, Venom Fang could be using the chaos created by Cyrovane in order to search for the forge in the Cave of Echo's, because everyone is going to be more focused on the Orc's, and less focused on what his actual plans are

Using Thundertree as a "in between" quest, after WEC finale and before starting the next adventure

@heyitsMattyP

Жыл бұрын

Yeah fair enough! Bonus points if you can link Thundertree to the next adventure plot or thene-wise

Using this idea, I made the goblins work for Venomfang but ultimately planning to betray him. Grol wants the treasure to become an actual noble because he wants the cragnaw to achieve political power, then he learns it has the Forge of Spells inside and then he really wants it, but gets eaten by venomfang insted (or killed by the party if they storm Cragnaw Castle first)

I made reidoth a more impactful and needed , as the characters spent a lot of time within phandelin and gundren was barely alive and the map was gone by the time they arrived within cragmaw castle, they had to help reidoth in order to get the information as to where the wave echo cave was, little did the party know whilst hunting days before e group of goblins and bugbears he interactged with mentioned some hidden cave and the black spider, so now venomfang wants this information too, the party then had a choice wether or not to fight the dragon or strike a deal with him , even though they almost definately plan on backing out of this deal later, I could see this going all kinds of ways but it seems they plan to use the dragon to deal with the spider , and hopefully fight a weakened dragon. just gotta find a way to make it work.