*Even if 2nd Ed AD&D is your preferred edition, I would still invest in a 1st Ed AD&D **_Dungeon Master's Guide,_** as whatever edition you play, it is a truly invaluable resource, with mountains of useful tables, descriptions, insights, and possibilities, and no DM's Guide from any later edition can match the amount of coolness within Gygax's original masterpiece. And the 1st Ed **_Monster Manual, Fiend Folio, Monster Manual II,_** and the 1st printing of **_Deities & Demigods,_** includes many gods, devils, demons, and other entities that were removed from later editions, as Loretta Williams at TSR with 2nd Ed, and then Independent Wizards of the Coast, and WotC under Hasbro, ALL have tried to distance D&D from the 80's **_Satanic Panic,_** and then later tried to keep it as "family friendly" and inoffensive as possible, so those 1st Ed resource books have grimdark edge that no other edition offers.*

@RealmBuilderGuy

7 ай бұрын

I do love the 1e books. I flip through the DMG on a regular basis

@deadlyDM

4 ай бұрын

Useful for any edition!

You are promoting 2ed, you can be drooling out of the side of your mouth and you will still get a like on this video from me. I appreciate what you are doing here.

When I think of Old School Revival/Renaissance, 2nd edition is not what immediately comes to mind. But I agree that the split between 2nd and 3rd is a logical marker between Old School and modern D&D. It marks the point where Wizards of the Coast took the reins with a, I guess, different vision for the game and its direction. It also represents the departure from THAC0, a distinct feature of old role playing and perhaps a carry over from war gaming.

Forgot to mention one other thing you missed. Resource management. In 5e, everyone has darkvision, good berry, and someone in the party has mage hand, so no need for torches, food, or a 10' pole. I remember being on one adventure recently, and I thought of an idea that involved a 10' pole, and I asked my party members if anyone had one, and they laughed at my crazy question. Why would anyone have a ten foot pole? Why would you own something like that etc... No need for it to poke at the pile of rags in the corner of the room, that is what your mage hand or familiar is for. You never have that fear of being 1.5 hours deep into a dungeon, and only have two torches left, and hope that you can get out of it without getting lost on the way, and finding yourself lost in the dark. You don't have to worry about rations, or foraging for food, because your druid just gives everyone a good beery for your breakfast etc..

@RealmBuilderGuy

5 ай бұрын

All very true

@troyschnierer2940

5 ай бұрын

I like both styles of game. My question is, why does having a 10ft" pole to poke the ground represent gripping gameplay? Or is it because of the pace of play, slowly going through the dungeon and being safe, while risking random encounters Vs running mad through the place fleeing a deadly monster while hoping that your 15 save Vs wand will get you out of pit trap trouble?

@peadarruane6582

5 ай бұрын

@@troyschnierer2940I like both as well. I play in a few 5e campaigns that I enjoy immensely, but I do find myself gravitating towards the older games, that are a bit more grounded and less superheroish especially at low levels. Adds more tension, and is more relateable IMO. Then when you progress to higher levels where you are indeed very powerful, that power and epic nature feels far more earned.

@RealmBuilderGuy

5 ай бұрын

@@troyschnierer2940 it’s the latter. Given that dungeon crawling is more procedural, this is a component.

@troyschnierer2940

5 ай бұрын

@@peadarruane6582 I play a lot of Forbidden Lands solo and love the hexcrawl / survival aspects. Mundane food picking and hunting while traveling across the map I really love. The superhero feel is spot on with 5th edition. Just started up a game in person for 5th ed and we'll see how it goes. I want to make it a bit more grounded (through slow natural healing and some other house rules) but wonder if my players are up for that. Going to try and get my high school friends to give Basic Fantasy and some modules a go soon, fingers crossed.

You have said this very well. This is one of the best, if rather short, explanations of the context of old school D&D vs. 5E.

Thac0 is an amazing mechanic that is difficult for most people to totally understand.

@erikmartin4996

9 ай бұрын

Which is incredibly sad

@fatanimetiddies9760

9 ай бұрын

idk if I'd call it amazing, but it's essentially the inverse of ascending armor class.

@elgatochurro

3 ай бұрын

It's just the dice math simplified "You need to hit a 13, you have +7, 13-7=6, you need a 6 at least" The first time you see it it's bizarre but it's the above example in inverse and centered around a 0, the 13 might be a -2, you need to get to this -2 to hit

Great video. I've played video game RPG's all my life, but never tabletop. Now I want to try!

Oh the pain! I threw out my 2nd ed books which were in near mint condition. 😭 I'm a huge fan of Dolmenwood which should pretty soon open to late pledges.

our game in Arden Vul uses the Death and Dismemberment rules when you hit 0 hp. Sometimes death is preferable BUT it adds a fun mechanic in combat. Thats only for pcs though.

@RealmBuilderGuy

Жыл бұрын

I really like those rules

@brandonkelbe

Жыл бұрын

omg im using this

@paavohirn3728

9 ай бұрын

I think i need to take another look at that rule. I've been going between a simpler d8 roll system and a bit more complex table I created a few years back. I would like it to be such that as a DM i can have it in my head and not need another table handy at the table but a bit more complex system allows for more fun results. I don't like the dead at 0 hp, but I don't like most alternatives either.

@paavohirn3728

9 ай бұрын

Except some time I would love to play raw and really try to survive and get the treasure. It's just not what I usually want out of an rpg. Enough lethality to keep things exciting but not quite the gamble.

@SusCalvin

3 ай бұрын

WFRP likes to dismember characters. There is no difference to NPCs. You get slapped with disease and insanity as the cost of adventure.

Nice, sir! 2nd edition was pretty awesome indeed! Thnx 🤓👊

Great to have more old school folks keeping the game alive! If you ever want to collab, drop me a note.

very good summary of the essence of old school play. Big BECMI fan myself rather than AD&D, but they definitely share common themes. Trying to get a few of my 5e mates to give BECMI a go. Videos like this are great in putting into words the things about the older game that are the 'itch' that I don't find 5e scratches, though the one 5e campaign I'm in, even though his favoured system is 5e, he started out with Basic and 1st ed, and has imported things like morale into his 5e games.

@RealmBuilderGuy

5 ай бұрын

I ran 5e for many years and house ruled it heavily to give it an “old-school” feel. Then I gave up and don’t bother with 5e anymore.

@Bren71319

4 күн бұрын

I think BECMI, 1st edition and 2nd are all basically cross-compatible… Throw in White Box and all the retro-clones too! It’s like one HUGE system!!!

most of this I had no idea what your saying but at the same time i learned alot!!! I love the change of channel plan and hope to see tutorials to help going forward!

Great video dude!

Not playing in the same team (DCC), still very good video doing a great job at describing most fundamental differences between new and old school. Useful and well done!

Being roughly around your age, I started also with 2nd edition and can remember basic red box set my step brother had too. We always used roll below ability checks in a d20 for stuff like perception (Wisdom ability check or an Intelligence). Or any other checks. It would be , what do you want to do and what ability correlates with that the most. It's in the books to do that. It didn't used to be in very early editions mind you.

Ascending/descending AC is a matter of taste. It is the same math. Letting things push beyond the scale into AC 25 or AC -8 is the problem. 2e is very wordy. Things that are simple become more complicated with the hunks of text, split-up tables and sometimes strange editing choices. THAC0 is one such, along with "1-8 points damage". 2e started to add class xp rules. Fighters get xp for fighting. Wizards for making scrolls and tossing spells. Thieves for treasure. Bards get xp for everything. I like char sheets that are easy to print in black and white, and not crowded with art.

Great video, Matt! I have talked about the old school vibe of Elden Ring as well!!

@RealmBuilderGuy

Жыл бұрын

Thanks JM! I appreciate it. And yeah, the ties between old-school sandbox play and Elden Ring are striking IMO.

I’m so glad I kept all my 1st edition books and modules. The settings are all in with them. Greyhawk, Mystara, Forgotten Realms. Judges Guild and various others. Cities of Harn. . Even picked lot of MERP , Middle Earth. Oh yes I did subscribe. Thanks , old school for me all the way.

This was my first edition as well!

Random encounter means random not "balanced !!" so yep... this is the nature of things. Maybe it's not your day and you should retreat / clear off / run away ... Great content.

@elgatochurro

3 ай бұрын

This change made it so players think they're the DM and that they're unkillable.

I do love Pathfinder 1e and 3.5, they're my two favorite systems, but they're absolutely not in the same category as 2eAD&D, I'll say they're older but if I'm talking about old school I am specifically referring to AD&D (both first and second edition), as well as the magenta box set and other forms of basic (I just called out magenta box specifically because that was the edition I've played)

1. Who says 2nd Ed. AD&D isn't Old-School? 2. I would argue that at this point 3.5 IS Old-School. I wrote an essay on the topic about a year ago, which I posted on several forums and social media sites. That essay received a very large amount of positive feedback, and agreement. At one point, the TiKTok had over 500,000 likes (I've since deleted that account), so I'm not in the minority on this.

I saw a video on Thac0 the other day that opened my eyes. They said the beauty of Thac0 is that I keeps the values within the values of the 20 sided die. I hear in 5e it can go beyond the 20 values where a negative number for armor is rare and magical.

@RealmBuilderGuy

7 ай бұрын

That’s very true. It keeps it within the scope of the numerical values of a d20. “Modern” D&D (from 3e onwards, including Pathfinder) expands it well beyond the value of 20

@SusCalvin

3 ай бұрын

Using THAC0 with AC -6 and such rapidly skews proportions. A level 0 townie should have a chance to hit a bloke in heavy armour. Not big but it should be there.

Thac0 is so easy once you realize you don't need to subtract at all. Player rolls a d20 and adds any mods and tells the DM the total. The DM then adds the AC of the creature attacked to that total. Is the final total higher than the PC's thac0? They hit. Once that method was shown to me, it changed everything I thought about thac0.

@RealmBuilderGuy

9 ай бұрын

I 100% agree. That’s how I’ve been handling it for nearly 30 years.

@BX_Disciple

6 ай бұрын

Does the same work for monsters attacking PC'S, just the opposite? Add PC's AC to monsters Thaco?

@RealmBuilderGuy

6 ай бұрын

@@BX_Disciple it’s the same formula, yes

@josephbeckett2330

Ай бұрын

THAC0 is not hard, but 3E's "To Hit" system is much better.

1e and 2e are basically the same game, they are compatible, and they are compatible with BX (my preferred "old school") and BECMI. It wasn't until WOTC got hold of it that it suddenly became not what it was...For me, the most important aspect of "old school" is the fantasy literacy part, that is, having DMs and players that actually read fantasy (and watch fantasy movies) and take inspiration from it. I can immediately spot someone who doesn't read enough fantasy. They simply have no material to improvise NPCs (so they sound like different people, that use different words and expressions, etc.)...I agree that THACO is awful and not necessary, because you can achieve the same effect using ascending armor class with a lot less work, so the game flows better. We HATED the 1e tables for combat because they bogged the game down, but it really doesn't matter....One of the main differences of old school is that it is more procedural (especially the BX stuff). I ran a hex crawl once for a bunch of 5e players, and they had never seen anything like it. It's just a process where the turns have a sequence of steps (account for time, roll for random event, see if you get lost, etc.)...I also designed encounters that they could not possibly win, but I left ways to escape or solve the problem without combat. Nevertheless, they still tried to jump in the middle and just hack, but their 5e superheroes still couldn't win. They just needed to determine the objective and see the monsters as obstacles to get around rather than just punching bags to beat up. It's because they didn't know anything other than the 5e rules and how to manipulate them. (There was no such thing as Rules Lawyers and Min/Maxing and Murder Hobos in the 1980s D&D games. Those are WOTC inventions.)... I think Gavin Norman's "Dolmenwood" (a variant of Old School Essentials, I think it is the best rules and setting I have ever seen, based upon BX structure and fairy tale literature)...Forgotten Realms is sooooooo tired now that it would be better off to be truly forgotten...If you want to see quality old school game play, check out 3D6DTL's channel!!!! There is no better old school play on KZread, in my opinion, to include Questing Beast as DM, (although his reviews are fantastic)! Most game play vids really bore me, and there are a lot of non-fantasy readers posing as DMs on these channels. Terrible.

@RealmBuilderGuy

Ай бұрын

I’m a big OSE fan and watch 3d6DTL’s great content. I’m also a Dolmenwood backer.

❤ 100 percent

Someone looking to run this sort of system I would say go with OSRIC it is pretty much AD&D cleaned up made easier to read and not having the rules that go against each other.

@ryannilsson7955 THAC0 was only a distinct feature in 2e. THAC0 was only an option in old-school D&D (1e, B/X, BECMI, Rules Cyclopedia etc.), and was rarely ever used.

@RealmBuilderGuy

6 ай бұрын

Fair enough

@peadarruane6582

5 ай бұрын

@@RealmBuilderGuy THAC0 was used but it wasn't formalised in rules, it was just a shortcut invented by players at the table to get over using the hit tables all the time, and was later 'formalised' into the actual formal rules.

@RealmBuilderGuy

5 ай бұрын

@@peadarruane6582 it was in the 1e DMG as a system to assist the DM to not have to use a combat matrix. But it’s true that it was only formalized as the default system in 2e.

@peadarruane6582

5 ай бұрын

@@RealmBuilderGuy Thanks for clarifying. Never played AD&D, always stuck to BECMI until returning to the hobby during COVID with 5e. I just knew we used it instead of the combat matrix even though it was never in the actual formal rules, and knew that at some stage it was brought into the formal rules. :). Like on the standard becmi Character sheet they had the list of AC's on the sheet, that you filled in the hit target values. Being lazy kids, we just filled in the AC 0 box, and did the maths as required then :)

The answer is not on the character sheet is the best way to put the difference between old school and 5e.

Could you recommend some websites to find groups?

@RealmBuilderGuy

Жыл бұрын

Local Facebook groups are often very good for this

@brandonkelbe

Жыл бұрын

discord the appropriate rpg- you’re welcome

Treasure as XP is the one "old school" trait that I do not use, I stick with what 2e recommends.

The most I struggle with about this is exp....it's tedious as hell

Thaco is just AC. It's not complicated

I have zero against 3.x. But it is not old school DnD. Old school DnD is pretty much pre-3.0. I love 2E, and you can run any earlier module with it.

OSRIC is not AD&D 1e. There is a lot of borrowed content from AD&D, but OSRIC is watered down.

1e AD&D. Why go OSRIC?

@RealmBuilderGuy

23 күн бұрын

The overall OSRIC just clarifies things a bit, especially for players not used to Gygaxian prose

felauf

RuneQuest 2nd ed. is much better but I'm biased. ;)

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