Now that is some hard core model railroading! Even if I never rewind a motor myself, I found this Next Level stuff very interesting and informative. Thanks!

Great presentation. I love the videos that show how to do something that 99.9% of people would never attempt. This video gave me a great respect for how these small motors were manufactured in the quantity that they were. Thanks.

Another exceptional video...I am always amazed that you work on the tough projects and show them in a way that is easy to follow... perhaps on your future videos you can post your materials in the comments in addition to mentioning them in the video... Keep up the great work... Rich...

You've once again done the impossible. I find trying to rewind these things a nightmare lol

@DarthSantaFe

2 жыл бұрын

It is a tedious process! If you can get used to the process though, the motors usually come out as good runners.

I wish you could put up more videos. I love your work!!

Your videos have inspired me to build a loco from scratch

@DarthSantaFe

Жыл бұрын

I hope that goes well for you!

Nicely done!

I have to say that is the first time I've ever seen this done! Very Cool!

Real real good most amazing at the craftsmen ship and accuracy involved. You are a major credit to this fine Hobby!!! Be Well I Say!!! Happy R/R'ing!!!

I only ever did this once!!!! It worked about as well but the labor of winding that wire was more than I ever care to do again unless the motor windings in an engine were to be destroyed or cut, even then I might just buy a new one lol. Great video!

This was great. Thanks.

your videos are killer! Please give us more and I will contribute!!

Ty for the great video! Have a older bowser that I'll do that too.

thanks a lot for sharing!

If you want to make the moitor last longer, put a thin U shaped piece of cardboard in each slot. As is done with well built DC or AC motors.

I use click pen springs for the brushes!

[thank, you for youre video]👍

Cool I like it

My only attempt at rewinding a motor ended in a bit of a mess. It was for an Aurora HO slot car wash a pancake motor. Never tried it again.

@crabbinmoose8583

9 ай бұрын

The winding was so much thinner on those and very easy to break or damage the coating. I had a similar experience, but the failures teach you what to look out for along the way to success, but only if you have the courage to keep going. If I'd stopped with that bad experience, I wouldn't be able to wind these types of motors.

This might help me rewind a 1950's Rivarossi 3-pole. Would love to see my old C-liner run again

@DarthSantaFe

2 жыл бұрын

Just keep an eye on those ball bearings if you decide to give this a try! The first time I pulled an old Rivarossi motor apart, the BBs fell out all over and I had to buy replacements.

@willausterman3104

2 жыл бұрын

@@DarthSantaFe this one is very simple and I didn't even see any ball bearings when I removed the armature. The commutater shines brightly but the copper windings look like burnt toast. I've not re-wound a motor before, but hopefully it will go well.

@DarthSantaFe

2 жыл бұрын

@@willausterman3104 I could be wrong about the bearings. Rivarossi mostly used ball bearings in the 50's but the C-LINER was also an experiment for them before they sold the tooling to Mehano, so maybe they were trying out regular sleeve bearings in that motor.

@willausterman3104

2 жыл бұрын

@@DarthSantaFe on the Rivarossi memory site it says there's bearings, but I think they're below the armature. So as long as I don't flip it over they should be ok

After seeing the magnet remagnetized, it makes me wonder if this is the true problem with these motors. They may need to be just remagnetized instead of being rewound. This would be an easier fix. I would reserve the rewinding process for motors with bad windings that are open or shorted. Also, it would be interesting to see neodymium magnets added to the side of the motors as an experiment to see if the current draw will drop with a higher magnetic field.

@DarthSantaFe

2 жыл бұрын

Adding additional magnets will help in wide bodies like the F7 or PA since they’ll have room to fit. Remagnetizing did help of course, but the windings were actually the most significant upgrade here. I’ve heard one of the nicknames for these 50 years ago (when they were brand new and fully charged) was the “1-amp motor”.

This was really awesome to see! I’ve used just the magnetizing trick on old athearns to a great deal of success, but now I’ll have to try the rewinding! Do you by chance have a background in material science or engineering? By the scope of your projects it looks like you’re already there!

@DarthSantaFe

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks! I've been running the motor in a project engine, and the difference in performance is amazing compared to what I used to see from it! I do design and engineering work at my job, but the skills are actually self-taught for the most part. A lot of it simply came from curiosity and trying new things.

@varrunningtrains4112

2 жыл бұрын

@@DarthSantaFe that’s really awesome to hear! You are quite an inspiration to me in terms of completing projects, and finding ways to overcome challenges in parts and design in general. Can’t wait to see what’s next!

You need a temp adjustable soldering station…those plug and burn irons are too hot and your skill and determination are worth good tooling

Darth, I really appreciate your work. Your skills are amazing! Forgetting the master lession you give us - thank you by the way - do you think it is better to rewire this old Jet motor than to buy a new one to use in your project? I’m not saying a expensive one, but a Kato HM-5, or even a Mabuchi 280 or a Johnson 180 that we can find at eBay or Aliexpress. Please, understand that I’m not questioning your decison: based in my poor skills, I’m just confronting the cost of a new motor versus the huge work involved in rewiring. Thanks, again, for showing us your work! Please keep doing that! 😊

@regisbraga3833

2 жыл бұрын

Need to comment that .05A at 12v freeload and 1.5A stall current are ver impressive marks!

@DarthSantaFe

2 жыл бұрын

@@regisbraga3833 If you have the time and patience, rewinding the old Jet motor will make it run just as well as a new Athearn gold motor. A Kato motor or Mabuchi 280 will be better running overall, and considering how easy it usually is to put a new motor in an Athearn chassis, the work to rewind these may not be worth it to most. There have been other cases where rewinding worked great because I didn't have to modify the chassis and gears (like for my Tenshodo 0-6-0T), so you could say it's a case-by-case sort of thing.

@regisbraga3833

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you Darth for your considerations.

Thank you for this! I had been wondering how to do this. What number of f windings and wire guage would you recommend on a DC 71 and Mantua open frame motors? I have both types I want to rewind.

@DarthSantaFe

2 жыл бұрын

Both of those motors use 34AWG wire, so I’d try using 36AWG and making 120 turns per pole. This is only guessing since I haven’t tried changing the windings on those before, but I have been wanting to do a Mantua/Tyco motor eventually.

Con-Cor models is looking for a part time person that could help them model in CAD/3D printing, remote position. I thought you might be interested.

@DarthSantaFe

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the tip! My own plans for my printing designs outside of my full time job are going to keep me occupied though, so I don't think I'll be much use to them. I'm sure they'll find someone good though!

How exact do the windings need to be? For example, If there’s one more or one less on a pole, will that mess everything up?

@DarthSantaFe

2 жыл бұрын

Nah, it'll be fine. A single winding barely carries any weight or torque, so the motor will operate normally if there are 108 on one pole and 110 on the next.

Dumb question but do you cut the wire after each pole is wound or do you solder it and keep winding? Amazing vid by the way!

@DarthSantaFe

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks! I usually solder the wire and keep going, but either way works.

@danielhutchinson7115

Жыл бұрын

Either way you wish . Are you using the advance to next pole over the top drop down wrap or are you using the drop down the slot wind and drop back to the preceding pole method of winding . There are many ways to wrap the wire onto the armature for the performance you are seeking.

I am rewinding a similar motor, and noticed that there were paper cutouts in the shape of the part the coils go around on mine. The motor is almost 50 years old, and the paper desentigrated. Will it mess it up if they are missing?

@DarthSantaFe

Жыл бұрын

The paper was there to make it easier to wind without possible short circuits. It’s not needed as long as you wind it carefully, or you can replace it with a little paper masking tape.

@EdwinsTrains

Жыл бұрын

@@DarthSantaFe Thanks!

I'm looking at rewinding some Lindsay windings. I can't figure out how to remove the epoxy on the ends without destroying the motor. Any thoughts?

@DarthSantaFe

8 ай бұрын

I tried this once before, and was able to loosen it by soaking in acetone and then chipping and cutting it away. The rewind afterward was difficult because of how tightly the windings are packed in. They used 32 gauge wire, and the epoxy is the only thing holding a lot of the wire in. Mine was unsuccessful in the end because of a shorted commutator, but I hope you’re able to get yours finished!

@rosadoco

8 ай бұрын

@@DarthSantaFe how did you figure out the commutator was shorted out?

@DarthSantaFe

8 ай бұрын

@@rosadoco I thought it was my new windings shorting somewhere, so I took them back out, but then I decided to check the commutator and was getting a direct short circuit between two or three plates. I tried cleaning it out, but couldn’t get it fixed in the end.

Sir , the reason most motors get rewound , is to enhance performance . This can be accomplished utilizing a few known skills . Of course , as in most things , this rewinding will to a large degree be depending upon the knowledge , skill , experience , and craftsmanship displayed by the rewinder . Many things can be performed to enhance the performance ... I'm going to Hypothesize and theen ansewer it..... #1. Why are you using such a small ga wire and so many turns on the Armature ??? The increase in ga. Size of the wire and decrease in the number of wraps will increase the motor speed RPMs. The way being shown is to basically increase the torque of the motor. However there are other things that you should consider . Speed vs Torque or a combination of both. So let's say what else could be performed That a very inexpensive to perform . Let's consider the wrapping method he is using. There most common ways to wind . Drop down winding method where the wire is attached to the Comm and then the wire is dropped directly down the armature Gap and wound on the preceding pole where the wire wraps the pole on the preceding pole . When winding is finished on that pole , instead of the wire being brought forward as is typical bringing it up and over the top , connecting the wire to the Comm and moving to ahead over the top of the next forward pole , instead in this drop down method the wire is now directed up at Comm. And attached to the position preceding it. Now consider the over the top foreward Method , where the wire is attached to the comm and then advanced to the next pole and wrap over the top. To be continued.

@DarthSantaFe

Жыл бұрын

The reason for the 34AWG wire and number of turns used was to increase the motor's torque and efficiency while reducing the maximum speed. The original windings were 32AWG with fewer turns, so the motor ran at a high speed while drawing high amperage at a similar or slightly lower torque. The winding method used was to match the original method. I've tried using windings that are directed the other way before (like the Athearn gold motor armatures), but I found that this changed the position of the electromagnetic field and nearly locked the armature in place. This is because the windings powered by the brushes were being put in line with the field of the permanent magnets, so they were simply attracted directly to the magnets and no longer trying to rotate the armature.

@danielhutchinson7115

Жыл бұрын

@@DarthSantaFe Yes Sir , I'm aware of this... However there are ways to get what you want performance Wize without all that silly wire and all the complications that come with doing it that way . As an example , using various wire sizes when rewinding the armature . You can start out winding with a thicker wire ga. Size when beginning to wind the motor . Say you start with a 28 ga. Size. At this time you completely rewind the motor with 28 ga. With only just a few wraps around each pole . Then you start over, and using a very thin wire size as you did , you complely rewind the motor a second time using the thin wire for motor torque, until you have wrapped the wire as you prefer until complete ... This way you have motor speed and torque . Experimentation will result in you finding the combination of speed and power you desire. Another way of course is to start with a thick wire for a few wraps on each pole . So you start with the 28 ga size and you wrap the first pole with say 20 wraps. At this time you get your 34 ga wire and soldier the two wires together , finishing the rewind of the pole when you are satisfied and context to the Comm. You do this same process to each pole on the armature and finish . You can advance or retard the timing to reach the performance you seek. Balance the armaturevanshim the mags with foil , bring them closer to armature for more torque etc. Now epoxy the wire so as to not throw the rewind allow to completely dry. Recheck balance and when ready reassemble and time to see what has happed performance Wize to the motor. Experimentation and record keeping data are essential and soon due to this , you can predict outcomes and then rewind at will without of unnecessary experimentation. Plus there is alot more that can be done to enhance performance. Good luck . Ask if you need advise.

OCD