Answer to a common question that keeps coming up: *Separating and remixing the resin seems redundant, can time and labor be saved by keeping the resins separate during use and regenerating them in independent cycles?* Actually yes, you can save time and labor by using separate deionization beds, but there are some caveats. So for those of you that don't know, since the resin beads work independently, you don't strictly need to mix them. Instead two different cartridges can be made, one containing anion exchange resin and the other containing cation exchange resin. They are installed in separate housings and connected in series. As the water flows through one the corresponding ions are removed, and then as they flow through the next cartridge, the ions of that type are removed. The result is deionized water just as with a mixed bed. But the system is much easier to regenerate as the resins are already separated and it's just a matter of removing the appropriate resin, mixing it with regenerant, washing it, and putting it back. In fact a number of commercial systems indeed do it this way. And you can set your system up this way as well. The reason why it's not the standard is because it actually produces slightly lower purity water. This is because as you replace ions you shift the equilibrium of the reaction and some of it shifts back. For example, let's say we have a solution of sodium chloride salt water and we run through a cation exchange resin already loaded with hydronium ions. The result is the sodium ions are swapped out for hydronium ions making hydrochloric acid. But as we know from before, hydrochloric acid will actually regenerate the resin and swap out sodium ions making salt again. Fortunately the effect is very small since the concentration of hydrochloric acid produced is very low. The actual equilibrium will lie very far to the right. But the effect isn't zero. The tiny amount of sodium that remains will pass through the anion exchange column without being absorbed. Meanwhile, most of the chloride will be removed but again, not all for a similar reason of equilibrium. To improve this you need to have another cation exchange resin column that now removes the remaining sodium ions. Since the most of chloride was removed by the anion exchange resin the amount of hydrochloric acid produced is lower so you get improved water quality. But it still isn't zero, you need to keep stacking more and more pairs. A mixed bed deionization resin column solves this by essentially having hundreds of deionization pairs in one column. The leftover ions from one bead of resin are removed by the next bead, and the leftovers from that bead are absorbed by a bead further down. So mixed bed resins give the best performance for the least complication. And thus remain the standard for water deionization. However there is a way to get the benefits of a mixed bed deionization column and still have the slightly easier maintenance of separate beds, and that's to use both. First have the anion and cation exchange columns processing the incoming water, and then have a final mixed bed column to polish the tiny percentage that makes it through. As long as you keep regenerating the anion and cation exchange columns before they are completely depleted, you can get many months of use out of the mixed bed column before it needs to be regenerated. Personally though, i don't bother. Separating and remixing the resin isn't the most labor intensive part of this process and i don't regenerate my resin often enough anyway to be bothered by it.

@jeremyprovence4942

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks, well done.

@Kineth1

4 жыл бұрын

This is exactly the question that came to my mind while watching the video! That, and now I know what the orange beads that float up out of a new ZeroWater filter are. Is there any test to tell when resin without indicator dye is fully regenerated?

@stazeII

4 жыл бұрын

Literally was going to ask this. Thanks for answering. :)

@kingofnuclearfallout39

4 жыл бұрын

I'm so glad that you are okay

@dimitar4y

4 жыл бұрын

@@Kineth1 ZeroWater seems unreasonably overpriced with too much nonsense marketting and aggressive anti-consumer practices like making their filters a "subscribtion" with the cartridges being custom specifically so their jugs aren't compatible with existing (perfectly adequate) systems.

Still rebuilding the lab. Might do some electroplating, or revisit making nitric acid (my last video on nitric acid is a decade old).

@Jameson1776

4 жыл бұрын

Him about some energetic chemistry.

@mikerobling1056

4 жыл бұрын

Rebuilding the lab, awesomesauce!!! New nitric acid vid - yes please!!!

@fluke196c

4 жыл бұрын

What happened to the lab?

@tomlutman2041

4 жыл бұрын

Nice. I’m actually about to charge the flask with H₂SO₄ while watching your 10yr old video. Only difference is I’m pulling vacuum

@aga5897

4 жыл бұрын

Do the Organic route ! Nobody ever did in answer to the Challenge. Process is in the SM archive.

Me: *Doesn’t understand a word of the title* Also me: *Watches with complete and utter interest anyways*

@StephenGillie

4 жыл бұрын

Cations are positive and I remember that because "cats are a plus".

This is what my dad does for a living, since 1990, on a rather large scale.

@sko1beer

3 жыл бұрын

Good for him saving the environment 👍 if no one regens resin it just goes in the bin

@jessehellakoo

2 жыл бұрын

Can you pre-filter water before you run it through di resin to limit the resin from being exposes to chlorine and iron in order to have it last longer?

@Stuffonyourknee12

Жыл бұрын

@@jessehellakoo yes it is recommended so the resin doesn’t exhaust as quickly.

@Stuffonyourknee12

Жыл бұрын

Also chlorine is bad for the resin

11:29 Ah yes, the truly professional way of storing things that you just spent hours preparing. I really love how youäve always used whatever you have on-hand to do so many of your things with. Easily one of my favorite things about you.

@Kineth1

4 жыл бұрын

I really like it as well, I do barely any chemistry, but I appreciate his effort to bring professional techniques together with amateur equipment.

One of the major setups for the meltdown disaster at Threee Mile Island nuclear power station involved the [non-nuclear] condensate water polishing tanks. The resin beads were becoming packed, and Babcock and Willcox's (B&W) factory-installed compressed air sparging system was proving inadequate at agitating the resin. The plant engineers, thinking outside the box, had cross-connected the control air system to the tanks to get a mightier sparge. Unfortunately, a valve to the control system air supply was left open when a tank was returned to service, and water backed up into the control air system. The water caused all the condensate supply valves to simultaneously slam shut, which on its own, caused a pretty impressive amount of destruction from the "water hammer" effect. Without the heat-removing action of the secondary power generation steam loop, the reactor scram'd. This "turbine trip" scram was nothing to write home about, but the sudden pressure spike in the primary loop caused the PORV (pilot operated relief valve) to spring open, also not unusual. Then, the unusual, though not unpredictable, transpired when the PORV became jammed open. No one noticed this amid the chaos of information in the control room, and the unusal fixation upon the status of the pressurizer. It was at this point that the TMI crisis began.

That is the best quote ever "this fluid is somewhat corrosive to human flesh"

@StephenGillie

4 жыл бұрын

It's as corrosive as soap. NileRed stuck his hand in it once, and nothing happened.

I forgot how much i enjoyed watching videos that go completely over my head....

I have been in the water treatment industry for a few years. My 2¢ on this. 1. Consider adding another RO/NF stage (NF if the system feed water is softened, RO if water is hard) to the system before the current RO. This will reduce the TDS of the RO permeate and increase the life of the second RO membrane. Doing this will require one more pump and tank to be added to the system. 2. The biggest advantage to running a three vessel i.e ( anion, cation and mixed-bed) ion exchange system is that you can regenerate and rinse the anion and cation vessels in place. You can use the hoses to pump HCl / NaOH / DI water into the vessels. The OBR (Output between Regenerations) of the Mixed bed vessel will also be very very high and most of the ions are exchanged in the anion and cation exchangers.

@schautamatic

4 жыл бұрын

Oh great: another Nalcoholic! 😄😄😄

@rudrashishmajumdar4251

11 ай бұрын

thanks Man id Like to Know More. is it replicable to large industries?

You never cease to amaze me after all the years on KZread. No complete lab? No problem! :)

The density separation is ingenious!

You're back!

I watch these videos to make myself feel smarter.

This answered many questions I had on regeneration. Worked with equipment (servicing electronic controls) with ion exchange resin many years ago and never really understood how it worked until now.

Glad to see you're back at it brother

Very cool video, I haven't watched for a year or two; good to see that you're still going strong. Love the content, hope to see you at a million before the new year!

Thank You for making process clear!

Very in depth and interesting!!

Thank you! I have my mixed bed resin successfully seperated into anion and cation, and I could generate them now!

my boy is back!

Nice video! I appreciate it very much that you are back! Oh I would love a new video on nitric acid! Greetings from Germany. Have a nice week!

Simple and very good

always worth watching

I’ve been keeping these, seems like a fun project

thank you very much, very insightful explanation

This is awesome, had no idea such a thing was possible!

Thank you very much for this video.

I really enjoy vids I can replicate at home quite easily. Not that I had a reverse osmosis filter, but still..

Thanks again for mentioning us reefers!!

I would love to see an attempt at an amateur production of a proton exchange membrane. Love this channel, keep up the good work!

Marvellous Chemistry, and Useful too ! Nice one Nurdy :)

I just thought that i hadn't seen a NurdRage video in a while... then lo and behold a New Video!! YAY!

GREAT info. Thanks!

Great video!

Great explanation.

Your explanation of the process or action happening with this chemistry video is thorough and impressive. I did have to watch a few of your videos several times. Due to you rather quick rate of speech. But that maybe me just processing each step in my head trying to understanding what your saying. But outstanding presentation Sir...

I have been wondering how this is done. I love the explanation in laymen's terms for us that got a D in chemistry

sweet. been waiting for this.

Thank you for always sharing and being awesome. I want to mess with this and I don't even have an RO system...just looks like fun.

Thank you!

NerdRage content is one of my favorite birthday presents (July 5th) and I got GLASS this year too

You rock nurdrage!

Thank you😊

you know id love to to see you do nickle plating most if not all the other videos ive watched are of amateurs doing it in rather crude set ups. id love to see a much better set up of a run. its always kinda amazed me that since the 1800s people nickle plated guns or other things and they held up so well

Very cool..

finally I know how to do this

that's super awesome

In this video: Chemist cleans Caviar! Joking aside, it really amazes me how similar looking it is... Donät get me wrong, I donät think Iäve ever once owned caviar muchless know what it tastes like, but you must admit it looks very similar to all the depictions of caviar youäve seen.

Interesting video! The separated resins might be very interesting for home-packed HPLC columns for DIY protein chromatography!

@AlldaylongRock

3 жыл бұрын

HPLC uses way finer resins than this.. You can grind them up, maybe?? If not, it can be used as a normal CG column for those

although simple, i liked the ingenuity of separation stage using a liquid of intermediate density

theres a nice system on amazon, a 5 stage with the 4.5g storage tank for like 189 dollars. brought my PPMs from down 550 to 20. I probably need a water softener upstream. for now i have two very strong neodymium magnets coupled together around the input to the filter in order to mitigate the adhesion of mineral scale to the innards. I imagine the R/O filter is being thrashed which I didnt know about till your previous video.

Propel "Fitness Water" bottles are perfect for DIY separatory funnels. The top of the bottle is already spout shaped and it's clear as well. They also make AMAZING alcohol vapor rockets when used for the "whoosh bottle" demonstration, as the spout acts just like a rocket nozzle. Use a ring stand or similar to make sure that they fly upward instead of sideways and assume anything underneath is going to catch fire from alcohol.

@revenevan11

4 жыл бұрын

Wow, a fitting name for that demonstration too! (I've had it and thus heard the name before but haven't tried that experiment and don't have any bottles lying around)

@jasonpatterson8091

4 жыл бұрын

@@revenevan11 It's pretty impressive. There is one poor ceiling tile in my classroom with chunks out of it from being hit by a Propel bottle dozens of times. If you try it, be smart about your hands, face, and the surroundings.

Nice.

Heterogeneous catalyse might be an intresting use/demonstration.

Suggestion: please do di-nitration of phenol or some other substituted benzene. Lots of videos on mono- or tri-nitration (keep it cold or let it rip), but I don't think I've ever seen a youtube video on the controlled process of di-nitration and how to deal with excessive side-reactions, etc.

@Andrew-my1cp

4 жыл бұрын

Yea I like this idea! I made lots of lower nitrates when using crappy nitrates for picric acid and the lower nitrates all were similar but had slightly different melting points and color. To make mono and di nitrophenol you'd just need more dilute acids and lower temps. NileRed actually made mono nitrophenol in order to make tylenol from aspirin.

11:40 Professor, I have a question... 11:49 ...oh, I guess I don't. Thank you for the valuable lecture!

Very interesting stuff indeed, I use DI resin for making my coral farming water but to be honest I will just continue to buy new stuff when needed as I'm far to lazy to do all of this 😅

This was a fun video ^_^

Awesome!!! Now what SpectraPure

Hello NurdRage! 1. Could you one day show how to produce H2O2 with different methods, as hydrogen peroxide is so often used in various processes. 2. And my next question would be, if you can synthesize phtalic acid (and later the anhydride of it for luminol) out of naphthalene? Thank you for all your videos!!

Yay!

Valeu!

2:10 The nitrogen atom on the right has an OH group instead of a methyl, not sure if intentional or not.

@NurdRage

4 жыл бұрын

Yup, that's wrong. I'll fix for a future video.

@margonaaaa

4 жыл бұрын

الله احيان عاباالي

@StephenGillie

4 жыл бұрын

He says "hydronium" but shows hydrogen several times. Hydronium is H3O, but H+ is shown.

@markovichglass

2 жыл бұрын

@@StephenGillie you realize h+, in water, IS hydronium....💚

Dude thanks, I have been thinking on getting RO system for brewery needs but unavailability of spare cartages does not make it a wise purchase. Regeneration of at least one part of the system might make it viable for me. Will research further.

I use to do this at Jamaica Detergents.

How do you suggest getting the resin out of the original filter cartridge? I am working in a research lab for the summer and my task is to do this exact process, however, I am concerned about how to extract the resin beads safely (given that I don't know what chemicals the resin has absorbed over its operating period) and efficiently. Any help is great, thank you so much again for the wonderful video, it really saved me. :)

very cool ! maybe i could analyze a sample for you next time and check for impurities...

Yo man, I've watched a few videos on this process, and this is the 1st video that actually makes sense, and explained so well. I really appreciate you making this video. Now, I need some help. FYI, this Is RipperJack from season 2 of Tiger King, and I normally help people who need drastic help, free of charge. If you watch season 2, you'll see I need a ton of work, all for free. Here's where I need help though, with the math. I have a mixed bed di system for car rinsing, and for use in my press cookers for my mushroom sterilization process. Let's say I had 10 LBS, or 20 lbs of mixed bed resin that I needed to reactivate. 10lbs is easier math I think, and I'm curious as to how much solution, or how much of that solution would I need to start the process of separating resins, and then the next step? This is where I'm completely lost, and would really appreciate some help. I can send an email with my contact info, or come to you in person to have a walkthrough of the process. I would also be willing to pay for your time, if required. I hope to hear back from you, or at least get some insight from someone who might have this information. Thanks kindly, and I'm located in Oklahoma if you're close to that State. Thanks, RipperJack. P.S. Carole definitely did it!

@NurdRage

8 ай бұрын

Its not too hard, the important part is to get the density of the regenerating and separating solution right. that 3/17 ratio of sodium hydroxide (crystal lye) with water. So if you have 17 lbs of water, you add 3 lbs of sodium hydroxide. Stir it up and let it cool, then mix it with your resin. I don't know how much you need for your particular resin, but the point is that you want enough that it will separate into 3 layers. Anionic resin on top, a layer of clear solution in the middle, and the cationic resin on the bottom. Since crystal lye isn't too expensive, i say start with an equal mass to your resin. 20 lbs of resin? so 3 lbs sodium hydroxide (crystal lye) and 17 lbs water like i said before. If it's not enough, make more. The anionic resin floats to the top. scoop that off and into a separate bucket, filter or drain away the solution, and wash it with clean water. Meanwhile the cationic resin is at the bottom in the original solution, filter or drain away the solution to get just the resin. Wash it once with water. Then add in hydrochloric acid to regenerate it, let it sit for 10 minutes, then filter/drain away the acid. Wash the resin in clean water. Since you're just using it wash your cars and make mushrooms, you don't need SUPER ULTRA clean washing like i did in my video for laboratory grade water. Just a couple of washings is fine. Then mix the two resins together and you should be able to use them for your DI system.

Nice video and well researched. I wonder how much performance would be lost of the anionic and cationic resins were physically separated (layers? bags?) in the column. It would make regeneration easier.

@NurdRage

4 жыл бұрын

Separate resins would produce lower quality water. So it's better to use mixed resins.

This is really informative..thanks..BTWI have commercial water refilling station and I am using cat ionic resin and I also use NaCl to regenerate it..my question is how long should i wash it with water after regeneration? If you are wondering how much resin im using...its actually one frp tank almost full with size of 10 by 54 inches..should i be using my tds meter to determine the duration..pls advise thanks

Thanks so much for this information very cool stuff! If you know by any chance how I can work with a mixed ion resin that has pieces of charcoal in it I would highly appreciate it. Would take me forever to hand pick them out.

Thanks for sharing your amazing video. I run separated resins. Please how long should I let the anion resin in the NaOH solution and the cation in the acid solution ? Once I finish can I put each resin in a different container with DI water to remove the restoration solution or is it better to filter as you demonstrated.

NurdRage...Would you please consider doing a video for synthesis of Calcium Hypophosphite for one of the ingredients in Hole-Wall activation in PCBs? Thank you.

NurdRage - Love your videos!!! I watch them all the time. Can I ask, what degree do you hold and where did you obtain it? Just curious. Wish I knew even 1/5th of what you know.

Nurdrage. Where have you been ? It’s been so long since your last upload. Hope you are doing well. Hoping there’s a lot more videos to come :)

hi thank you for all this teaching and sharing i have one question what chemistry book do you recommend us to buy thanks

If both resins have the same amount of acid or base contamination after regeneration, they'll anihilate when mixed together. And the small amount of Na and Cl will not hurt. So keeping the washing minimal will not hurt much.

Excellent video! Thanks for the presentation. I have a question though, what do you do to dispose of the regenerant? Pour it down the drain??

@supermetaltastic

2 жыл бұрын

He answered this: When you're done, you can mix all the waste chemical solutions and add in some (like half a cup per bucket) baking soda. If it fizzes, stir it until dissolved then add in another half cup of baking soda. Keep doing this until it stops fizzing. At that point it's safe enough to dump down the drain (it has essentially become salt).

An idea - would it be possible to add clock to the shots? Always wonder at which speed e.g. the filtration process is proceeding. Or add text saying at which speed it's played. Thanks!

I have never even thought about havig reverse osmosis water in my house until 4 days ago when I bought a marine tank that will need RO water

@erbenton07

4 жыл бұрын

The deionized water is also ideal for things like topping up your car radiator and old style car batteries among other things. For your marine tank its a must but its a good investment too

it's probably obvious for you, but you could have elaborated in more detail how both of those resins change color when they're fresh/spent. i get that one of them is dark when it's fresh and becomes orange/transparent when it's spent, but what about the other one that just seems to always be orange?

After regeneration, can you put the cationic and anionic resin in separate layers allowing easy separation and subsequent regeneration? They should in theory still be able to capture the complementary ions and clean the water.

Hi thank you for your good information. please answer to my question: capacity of Ion exchenge of Resin after regeneration dont reduce?

Would it be possible to make an ion selective membrane with this stuff? For a battery separator for example?

Could you do the final wash with an upscaled soxholet extractor?

Crane ultrasonic humidifiers use a demineralization filter containing what looks like the cation exchange resin. There doesn't appear to be any of the darker anion resin. Would running an HCl solution through such a filter work to refresh it? The filters don't appear to be constructed to allow resin replacement or removal.

Reaching zero TDS can be a little bit tedious??? ;)

Is it possible that after the regeneration(s), resin will slowly leach out of the system, and end up in the deionized water? How could that affect future chemical reactions? Edit: NEVERMIND, you answered this at 11:50 .

Suggestion, the partial oxidation of a primary alcohol to an aldehyde, many have the demonstration or common experiment on you tube using acidified dichromate or permanganate, although another preparation needs the vapour of ethanol to be passed over hot copper turnings at 300 C. These is no real video or assessment of this method to produce acetaldehyde, could you maybe do it for an upcoming video? Regards, Karl

Could osmotic shock cause problems to the beads during regeneration?

NurdRage, could you show how to strip the color and other filters off of a digital camera image sensor? (Sorry this is off topic.) What I want to end up with is a monochrome camera that is more sensitive to UV light. (I don't mean, IR, that's easy. I really mean UV) It is something I've been wanting to do ever since reading a paper where a Raspberry Pi camera was modified to measure sulfur emissions from a coal power plant smoke stack. The paper mentions a chemical stripper, but I can only find it for sale by the gallon. I'm hoping there might be a simple mix of household chemicals that would do the job. (Some people manage to scrape the layers off but I've had no luck with that.) A DIY UV bandpass filter would be a nice bonus.

If i want to do this in larger quantities, what do you recommend for containers? I run DI water system for car washes at home, and would be interested in doing like 5-10lb at once to save on time. Also what is the proper way to dispose of the chemicals after? I'm not a chemist, but looking for ways to cut resin cost. thanks! great video btw!

@NurdRage

3 жыл бұрын

Plastic buckets is fine for containers, for car wash use, you don't need ultra-high purity like a laboratory. Just be sure to wear elbow high dish washing gloves when handling the chemicals. When you're done, you can mix all the waste chemical solutions and add in some (like half a cup per bucket) baking soda. If it fizzes, stir it until dissolved then add in another half cup of baking soda. Keep doing this until it stops fizzing. At that point it's safe enough to dump down the drain (it has essentially become salt).

Can you store the dissolved Sodium Hydroxide and Acid for later use Regeneration ? (Did and a little Sodium hydroxide to the liquid to keep up 3/17 ratio).

Is it possible to have 2 cartridges, one with the cationic exchange resin and the other with anionic resin, then have the water flow through both cartridges one after another? Would that eliminate the need to have to separate the resin each time you want to regenerate it?

Can you use salt to get the same results? Like a salt bath

My griots garage spot free water system holds 13lbs of di resin. Can I recharge all that at once and if so how much of all the chemical would I need to mix?

Oh the SHAME!! 🤦🏻‍♂️I had 5 pounds of mixed bed DI resin that I was regenerating and the biggest pain was trying to separate the two resins! I just stirred the resin in water and, while I could (mostly) get them to separate, both layers were still under water and was it a hassle trying to siphon off just the top layer, KNOWING that I wasn’t getting it all. But today I get nerded to DEATH watching how so very much easier I could have done this with something I had to use anyway to regenerate the (anionic) resin! 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️ So I still have a pound of unused resin that I’ve started to use (along with granular activated charcoal) to refill my BRITA filters, while saving the old filter media to regenerate. SERIOUSLY? How knuckleheaded can a former chemistry student like myself be these days? 😬 But honestly, I DON’T want to know! 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️😄😄😄

@schautamatic

4 жыл бұрын

BTW, the resin in Brita filters is just cationic, which I found out the hard way after trying in vain to do a density separation.

How quickly does this ion exchange process take. Thinking of filling an in line shower filter with this resin

WOW

Can you make ethylenediamine