HOW TO NO-COMPLY 180

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5 SECRETS TO LEARN EVERY TRICK: • MY 5 SECRETS TO LEARN ...
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  • @strangebeave
    @strangebeave4 жыл бұрын

    That skatepark looks serene af, beautiful mountains everywhere.

  • @DjSchmeckle

    @DjSchmeckle

    3 жыл бұрын

    Looks like somewhere in Colorado

  • @gmzanatta

    @gmzanatta

    3 жыл бұрын

    Alps on the other side of chezch republic I believe

  • @NiquelBones

    @NiquelBones

    3 жыл бұрын

    welcome to switzerland

  • @icarusshepherd1724

    @icarusshepherd1724

    3 жыл бұрын

    Switzerland in a nutshell.

  • @tallulahgreen5425

    @tallulahgreen5425

    3 жыл бұрын

    @@DjSchmeckle switzerland

  • @HDprogamer01
    @HDprogamer017 жыл бұрын

    i want to live there like jeez, having a skatepark like that and being surrounded by that view, much better than what i can see here!

  • @goncalolopes5146

    @goncalolopes5146

    7 жыл бұрын

    infinite Burgers live* having* btw totally agree !!

  • @HDprogamer01

    @HDprogamer01

    7 жыл бұрын

    Gonçalo Lopes oh wow that spelling was awful i do apologise

  • @DjSchmeckle

    @DjSchmeckle

    3 жыл бұрын

    Looks like somewhere in Colorado

  • @ironninja9873

    @ironninja9873

    2 жыл бұрын

    Concordo ! Não sou o maior fã de freestyles , mas amo No Complies e Strawberry Milkshake

  • @LandedAFewHeelflips
    @LandedAFewHeelflips7 жыл бұрын

    This trick is so hard for me

  • @KINGOFTERDS

    @KINGOFTERDS

    7 жыл бұрын

    Aidan Wells same! I don't know what I'm doing.

  • @paulkuen4297

    @paulkuen4297

    5 жыл бұрын

    Try to do it switch im not kidding its easier 4 me

  • @claudiakoning

    @claudiakoning

    5 жыл бұрын

    @@paulkuen4297 yeah for me also, especially if you're riding goofy like me switch is way easier, because you pop with your right foot then.

  • @peripheralburnz8464

    @peripheralburnz8464

    4 жыл бұрын

    Best of luck

  • @Airik1111bibles

    @Airik1111bibles

    4 жыл бұрын

    Try riding the board backwards so pop using the nose ....I don't know why it works better but I've found that for some reason maybe the concave it just helps. I do mine oldschool so watching new guys like Johnny do them it looks lazy and not the same. In the late 80's we would jump almost at the same time as the tail pops so you actually get way higher esp doing 360 nocomplys. The way guys do them now its more of just a quick pop shuvit or revert variation. I'm 46 and started skating again after being off for 20 years and the nocomplys literally come natural to me yet don't ask me to kickflip 😂 I honestly think when ya take to long to jump it makes it more difficult and kinda messes with your brain and the flow. Go watch Nata's Kaupus vids or some old H-Street vids from the late 80's early 90's and you can see the change . I think it has to do with how light weight and small the boards are today plus no shape that kinda effects how it looks these days.

  • @WutTheDeuceGaming
    @WutTheDeuceGaming7 жыл бұрын

    I will never understand why everyone stopped doing no-comply tricks. They are some of the coolest looking tricks because they are so unconventional.

  • @RandomTarnished

    @RandomTarnished

    7 жыл бұрын

    WutTheDeuce they're very common for "old school lovers" possers in fact...

  • @WutTheDeuceGaming

    @WutTheDeuceGaming

    7 жыл бұрын

    Spose that's true. I'm an old schooler myself. I dunno, I've always thought those tricks looked cool

  • @RandomTarnished

    @RandomTarnished

    7 жыл бұрын

    I think it's one of the most beautiful ones too, you can also call me an old schooler hahah

  • @stjepangojko1884
    @stjepangojko18842 жыл бұрын

    Hey Jonny. You are a life saver... I was struggling with actual step off and pop, and that tip how to practice grabbing your board after step off to pop was exactly what I needed. I am skating for 3 days after more than 17 year brake, and I just landed that no comply 180 second day after watching this video =D I am so happy, and proud. Really thank you a lot. Cheers from Croatia

  • @DarioJu
    @DarioJu7 жыл бұрын

    i thought you need rolled up pants, white high socks, converse shoes and a polo cap to learn this trick :O

  • @jamesdavis5023

    @jamesdavis5023

    7 жыл бұрын

    Dario Ju boi

  • @tehpanda.

    @tehpanda.

    7 жыл бұрын

    Dario Ju or be sweedish 😂😂

  • @zonk834

    @zonk834

    7 жыл бұрын

    Dario Ju You forgot the pink long sleeve

  • @JonnyGiger

    @JonnyGiger

    7 жыл бұрын

    don't forget about the pink T

  • @elialang5953

    @elialang5953

    7 жыл бұрын

    What about the zoom and slow-mo in the vid? Thought you'd need that as well to really get a clean no-comply 180 :O No joke aside, thank you Jony for the nice video :)

  • @s4toristar
    @s4toristar4 жыл бұрын

    Thank you so much for this video! ❤️❤️ it took me 6 hours of shinners and knee bruises but than it happend, i landed my first rolling no comply180🙏💪🥳

  • @charlesgaut1887
    @charlesgaut18877 жыл бұрын

    just figured out ollies. kickflips seem like they're never going to happen.. so, I started trying no-comply. great timing on the video, johny. gonna try it out right now.

  • @erradate6425

    @erradate6425

    4 жыл бұрын

    Charles Gaut did u get the kickflip now ?

  • @maxirod_

    @maxirod_

    4 жыл бұрын

    I want to know too! Don’t give up and try everyday, I used to think like that but after some trash flips my mind push me to try harder because it felt so awesome to land them, even tho if they are trash haha.

  • @yhuncho6227

    @yhuncho6227

    4 жыл бұрын

    i can do a kickflip but wouldve break my nose if i no-comply

  • @smaduro888
    @smaduro8885 жыл бұрын

    Namaste mr.Giger, 2019 and still learning from your wise words. Thank you very much. Always a pleasure to watch your channel.

  • @DEAD99887
    @DEAD998877 жыл бұрын

    Do more clips in slow motion sometimes just watching how you do it helps it click in my head make me learn faster thanks!!!

  • @ronin911
    @ronin9115 жыл бұрын

    4:58 a little too close for comfort

  • @commie281

    @commie281

    4 жыл бұрын

    Сука Блять it just rebounds off the nutsack

  • @PureRush94
    @PureRush946 жыл бұрын

    This helped so much! Especially the part about putting pressure on your front foot. Thanks for going into detail. I finally got it!!

  • @timminkaful
    @timminkaful4 жыл бұрын

    Is anyone also just having trouble with just the first part where he picks his board up???

  • @assy9472

    @assy9472

    3 жыл бұрын

    did you get it?

  • @Ghostie.
    @Ghostie.6 жыл бұрын

    The way you explained this trick is the best on YT right now. Even better than the Braille version.

  • @stevenw9254
    @stevenw92547 жыл бұрын

    thanks I think the way you explained that first step in the beginning of the video is going to be really helpful........ so amped, going to try this tonight............

  • @itsjjstyles
    @itsjjstyles2 жыл бұрын

    Almost 600k Jonny!! Been watching since before I started skateboarding (~1 year ago)

  • @entheo302
    @entheo3023 жыл бұрын

    Thanks. Just got my first board in like 20 years and relearning all my old tricks.

  • @nicolasbourdon7450
    @nicolasbourdon74503 жыл бұрын

    Love from France where i am trying to learn skateboard at 33 years old to ride with my 5 years son. Keep teaching you re so good at it

  • @_rosski
    @_rosski2 жыл бұрын

    I just learned this trick today thanks to this Video! Thanks Jonny

  • @groverriley3621
    @groverriley36217 жыл бұрын

    Duuuuude Jonny, my man! I saw this vid a couple days ago and, I gotta say it REALLY helped dude. Im not usually the first try guy, but I SHIT YOU NOT, I just got the chance to hit my local park and I GOT IT FIRST TRY bro! Thank you for the cool how to's and funny moments bro. Keep em comin'!!!

  • @curbteeth
    @curbteeth3 жыл бұрын

    I finally landed this literally 7 minutes after watching. Thanks so much man 🙏🏽

  • @kngznart
    @kngznart4 жыл бұрын

    Thanks so much Jonny! I didn't see the tip with learning to pick up your board like that anywhere else and it helped a lot. Also "hardly" means "kaum" in German, so basically the opposite of what you would guess and how you're using it :))

  • @emiliolingg
    @emiliolingg7 жыл бұрын

    Amazing video! I love the way how you explain tricks. I can learn a lot with these videos! Thank you:)

  • @polishenglish8356
    @polishenglish83567 жыл бұрын

    Thank you for the tutorial! Going to try it today! :)

  • @BlackQuillFiend

    @BlackQuillFiend

    7 жыл бұрын

    Respect man! Jonny makes it looks so easy but once you try it yourself it seems soooooo hard. I'm only just began skating after seeing these kind of videos and my respect for anyone that skates has grown exponentially ;) Thanks for the inspiration, Jonny!

  • @Dxndylion
    @Dxndylion7 жыл бұрын

    We be good to see more videos like this on basic tricks for people that have only been skating a few months :)

  • @awaylp649
    @awaylp649 Жыл бұрын

    Damn just opening my shoulders fixed everything. Thank you so much Jonny. Skateboarding is funny just one tip can change everything

  • @Saejima_VT
    @Saejima_VT7 жыл бұрын

    Thanks for the tutorial Jonny! Was looking for a trick to learn today. :)

  • @esteveserena7909
    @esteveserena7909 Жыл бұрын

    Thanks for this Kind of video. You are an inspiration, but I need posible tricks. Namaste

  • @annon2354
    @annon23544 жыл бұрын

    I love you Jonny Giger- you're the greatest!

  • @oldladyfalling7844
    @oldladyfalling78443 жыл бұрын

    One thing that helped me get these that you didn't mention- when you take you front foot off the board, face it AWAY from the board...as soon as I did that these came so easy....

  • @therootofjesse286
    @therootofjesse2866 жыл бұрын

    watched this video.learned the trick next Sesh! It felt good. Thanks

  • @tilen3870
    @tilen38702 жыл бұрын

    Man, this trick eludes me even now; I honestly feel like 360 flips, heelflips, bs flips etc. are all easier to do than this one (I realize I'm probably wrong but I got all those tricks pretty much on lock, yet no comply 180 I cannot figure out). Thanks for the video Jonny!

  • @tile-maker4962
    @tile-maker49627 жыл бұрын

    i like that you are making a technical Giger skate class. Need those details man.

  • @Clarke1982
    @Clarke19823 жыл бұрын

    Just learnt them, thanks!

  • @bukowski7653
    @bukowski76537 жыл бұрын

    Thenks mister giger! I'm 39 and starting too learn how too ride a board and the easy tricks. I let u know if i got this one! Greeting from Almere, Holland... Keep it up, i watch all your vids!!

  • @JIDAYAH1981

    @JIDAYAH1981

    7 жыл бұрын

    Same here man 36, in my second year(with a full time job) want to learn beginner tricks. Jonnys a great teacher! fracture my wrist a month ago though, I'm itching to skate sooooo bad lol

  • @wotever99ninynine

    @wotever99ninynine

    5 жыл бұрын

    ​@@JIDAYAH1981 im 30 and have had bad wrists from all my falls, ive been a perpetual beginner since i started about 15 years ago on and off... im getting better now, i gotta stick to the less dangerous stuff now im older though. i advise some good wrist braces. i bought some a few years ago and have never looked back. no more cut up palms, no more repeated wrist pain that takes months to come right. theyre amazing. i got some 187 killer pads wrist braces myself. they do the job. i add a bit of reinforcing from time to time from pvc/ urethane dinghy patches with some rubber cement, the parts that hold the plastic bits in get worn pretty easy. i also made my own padded insert to go inside them to soften landings and extends out to protect uncovered bits of palm and thumb ;-)

  • @nogwar

    @nogwar

    5 жыл бұрын

    al beter geworden?

  • @jayfizzle4112

    @jayfizzle4112

    4 жыл бұрын

    @@JIDAYAH1981 how is it going my man?

  • @solnya

    @solnya

    3 жыл бұрын

    Great to see I'm not the only one starting skateboarding late. I'm 35, been learning to skate for 5 days now, and I love all your videos Mister Giger. I'm currently learning tick tack, and sure will try this...later ^^

  • @morgellon9449
    @morgellon94493 жыл бұрын

    One of my favorite flatground tricks to do. Also known as the 43. It was invented by the SF-based photographer O (pronounced like "oh", not "zero") sometime around the year 1980. The name came from an inside joke about the number 43 being some kind of conspiracy perpetrated by a local corner store that sold soft drinks at 43 cents instead of the standard lower price at the time. It was discussed on a BS With TG (Tommy Guerrero) episode, highly recommended for people interested in skate history. Interesting that it was invented by a photographer and not a pro, too. Pretty sure he learned the no-comply first; can't remember if he invented the 43 independently from the guys like Neil Blender and Lance Mountain who were doing the no-comply, but it seems unlikely. Mullen gets a lot of credit for the tricks he invented, and deservedly so, but there's interesting history for all skate tricks-- it's just a bit more obscure a lot of the time.

  • @wotever99ninynine
    @wotever99ninynine5 жыл бұрын

    this is really really well explained. i thought this would be easy after seeing someone do it the other day, but when i got on my board to actually try it i couldnt fathom it.. didnt help the guy i saw rode switch and it had me confused.. wasnt sure which way to flick board, feels weird to flick it towards your other leg. i see some shinners tn my future when i try this.. but im pretty sure i can get it. looks deceptively easy, but maybe thats a double bluff and it actually is easy, well see... thanks for the vid anyway :)

  • @Akyla0177
    @Akyla01777 жыл бұрын

    Love your videos. Greetings from Russia!

  • @louisrussell3247
    @louisrussell32473 жыл бұрын

    Dude I fucking love his Zelda themed boards. That game is the fucking GOAT and Jonny is easily one of the best skaters around right now.

  • @morphosis7655
    @morphosis76552 жыл бұрын

    Man I need to move out there, it’s stunning 😍

  • @j.a.physio6221
    @j.a.physio62214 жыл бұрын

    Great explanation man.

  • @mellowman3366
    @mellowman33663 жыл бұрын

    Best trick tip videos!!

  • @peripheralburnz8464
    @peripheralburnz84644 жыл бұрын

    Thank you, I am going to try this trick to day axé pour tous les mondes🐐🔥❤️🇫🇷🇧🇷🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🇬🇧

  • @zanderclips5122
    @zanderclips51226 жыл бұрын

    TNX Jonny this video helped a lot :)

  • @hasckandor3247
    @hasckandor32477 жыл бұрын

    Great video like usual but.. I want your board!! Thanks of a french viewer

  • @edwardbillings3784
    @edwardbillings37847 жыл бұрын

    plz plz plz plz plz plz do more this was soooo helpful an if u could do more crazy trick tutorials like this thx keep doing wat u do best

  • @Lucas_Guima
    @Lucas_Guima7 жыл бұрын

    Really thanks for make this video!!

  • @jaydavis0927
    @jaydavis09273 жыл бұрын

    Cool video bro and by the way you do those clean how they should be done.

  • @DirtyFINGERBOARDER
    @DirtyFINGERBOARDER7 жыл бұрын

    Love your Content, greeting from Germany!

  • @JonnyGiger

    @JonnyGiger

    7 жыл бұрын

  • @mdfirdauz4132
    @mdfirdauz41325 жыл бұрын

    Do a no-comply to 50-50 on a flat rail.. that would be cool to see or with any cool grind tricks

  • @dazman1973
    @dazman19737 жыл бұрын

    Whenever I tried to learn this back in the Ray Barbee days, the nose would just pop up and crack me in the knee! Like every time!! Never got them licked. 😂

  • @noeledeuilreinette5562
    @noeledeuilreinette55625 жыл бұрын

    can we do this with a scooter ? ( just kiding thanks man ! )

  • @prodfocus-de3ci
    @prodfocus-de3ci4 жыл бұрын

    2:29 wtf where is his body lmao

  • @pogiakoo69

    @pogiakoo69

    4 жыл бұрын

    How to unsee

  • @lilfriedchicken9920

    @lilfriedchicken9920

    4 жыл бұрын

    xd worstofme huh

  • @t1_dripzyt

    @t1_dripzyt

    3 жыл бұрын

    OMG YH

  • @t1_dripzyt

    @t1_dripzyt

    3 жыл бұрын

    7 months later learning to skate.on quarantine lol

  • @shyantandasgupta9601
    @shyantandasgupta96016 жыл бұрын

    Namaste Jonny guru! I have been learning skateboarding myself in India.I have got down bonelesses ,no comply generic and tic tac and shuv its. I am trying to learn fs 180 no comply's but I find it easier to turn backside 180 better (keeping in mind I am a regular footed skateboard learner).Also I find a lil offbalance to ride gooofy footed,so will it affect my no comply fs 180? please also let me know if decathlon (oxelo) boards are better for a beginner or 'tricks' skateboards as they are the only brands available at my country :)....

  • @kejot8439
    @kejot84393 жыл бұрын

    How can I avoid the board turning, while learning the first step the pop in the hand, it's often turning a bit into my "catch hand"

  • @SunGod_Leo
    @SunGod_Leo7 жыл бұрын

    Thanks a lot Jonny! This really helped me out

  • @JonnyGiger

    @JonnyGiger

    7 жыл бұрын

    welcome :)

  • @SunGod_Leo

    @SunGod_Leo

    7 жыл бұрын

    Could you also do a tutorial on backside 180's I really have a problem with them

  • @haditmontero8110
    @haditmontero81102 жыл бұрын

    Gracias por los detalles del truco! :D

  • @jemt1290
    @jemt12903 жыл бұрын

    Any tips on how to step aside? I can't put my front foot down because my back foot is pushing the tail down and the board keeps sticking to my front foot... don't know if im making myself clear!

  • @Terji
    @Terji7 жыл бұрын

    You know a lot of tricks. Can you do a Natas Spin? I did one once and it was a lot of fun, but for some reason people never talk about this trick.

  • @christopherwho8566
    @christopherwho85664 жыл бұрын

    Cheers Jonny !

  • @widow2583
    @widow25833 жыл бұрын

    the board hits my leg when i try to do the front shuv part any tips?

  • @solohatchet
    @solohatchet7 жыл бұрын

    can you do other no comply tutorials

  • @justingoose17
    @justingoose177 жыл бұрын

    is that the new revive board, sweet! love your videos dude!

  • @JonnyGiger

    @JonnyGiger

    7 жыл бұрын

    Master Sword

  • @XSProgression

    @XSProgression

    5 жыл бұрын

    Jonny Giger I’ve been trying to figure out where these Zelda themes boards are coming from! Thanks for the trick tip and namaste 🙏

  • @tyronsmith7938
    @tyronsmith79386 жыл бұрын

    hey jonny please show how to double heelflips

  • @geitenkaasje1
    @geitenkaasje17 жыл бұрын

    Can you do a presure flip tutorial?

  • @albin6163
    @albin61637 жыл бұрын

    good video mate

  • @jusjar315
    @jusjar3157 жыл бұрын

    what size board does jonny ride

  • @RDL7Pro
    @RDL7Pro7 жыл бұрын

    What’s the background song?

  • @zamotasuplany6251
    @zamotasuplany62517 жыл бұрын

    For how long you use etnies boots? I dont have much money to buy these boots so often but if they can survive 2/3 months i would buy them :D

  • @user-gl1lr2qn6y
    @user-gl1lr2qn6y3 жыл бұрын

    I can't seem to do this trick without applying a micro-jump a moment before moving my front foot to the ground. Is this step being missed?

  • @hughwilla4744
    @hughwilla47443 жыл бұрын

    thank you.

  • @mevales1681
    @mevales16817 жыл бұрын

    How to varial heel please :)

  • @marcsugi
    @marcsugi2 жыл бұрын

    The main movement is very similar with a Cruyff Turn in football (soccer).

  • @plukman7703
    @plukman77033 жыл бұрын

    I think this park is around the switzerland area

  • @Ethan_Mcfly
    @Ethan_Mcfly7 жыл бұрын

    Thank you! Please next time Varial Heel! :)

  • @dariomccarty366
    @dariomccarty3663 жыл бұрын

    every time i try to pop the board up sideways on flat ground it hits my knees and it’s starting to hurt like a b*** ... any tips ?

  • @trentharper467
    @trentharper4675 жыл бұрын

    how about no comply late shuvit? Is that possible?

  • @anuchagujral6440
    @anuchagujral64407 жыл бұрын

    Thank you

  • @YaroIn4k
    @YaroIn4k3 жыл бұрын

    Im having trouble with being comfortable landing it goofy because i ride regular

  • @user-fd5ew3sf5z
    @user-fd5ew3sf5z4 жыл бұрын

    Learn this trick it feel so good my favorite trick

  • @ktr8480
    @ktr84803 жыл бұрын

    ty jonny giger

  • @jvinfrancis7773
    @jvinfrancis77738 ай бұрын

    That beat tho!

  • @granddaddy_funk
    @granddaddy_funk7 жыл бұрын

    should I try to learn pushing switch first? because landing on my back foot feels super sketchy

  • @zeniax4841

    @zeniax4841

    7 жыл бұрын

    you dont need to learn to push switch for this trick, but knowing how to at least ride a little switch helps

  • @Alex-un4ww

    @Alex-un4ww

    3 жыл бұрын

    Yea

  • @olearris
    @olearris2 жыл бұрын

    Beautiful area. All my skatepark has is a stream with fish smell on bad days.

  • @charlescontizano81
    @charlescontizano817 жыл бұрын

    i luv u jonni❤❤❤

  • @nick-zf7zk
    @nick-zf7zk5 жыл бұрын

    I can do kickflips heelflips and all that Stuff but no complys are hard af for me

  • @derekpatton124
    @derekpatton1247 жыл бұрын

    5:16 that (probably) fall off screen steez! I at least have that part covered ;)

  • @nilsschulze7691
    @nilsschulze76914 жыл бұрын

    Irgendwie find ich n kickflip leichter als das was du am Anfang gezeigt hast😅irgendwie Krieg ich s net hin haste vllt nochn tipp?

  • @DeNiruable
    @DeNiruable4 жыл бұрын

    Can someone explain to me how to not pop the board straight to your chins

  • @BrazillianFOsho
    @BrazillianFOsho7 жыл бұрын

    when you said step aside I immediately thought of George Costanza

  • @nazreenshah9546
    @nazreenshah95467 жыл бұрын

    hey jonny,I invented some trick for you the name of it is fidget spin aka bigger spin revert hope you like it

  • @johnerwin1894
    @johnerwin18947 жыл бұрын

    yeah i like this trick to go fakie position , plus it looks cool

  • @adambyrne1325
    @adambyrne13257 жыл бұрын

    Can you do switch flip or switch heel?

  • @gxexrxmxaxnx

    @gxexrxmxaxnx

    7 жыл бұрын

    How would it be different from regular kickflips

  • @tehpanda.
    @tehpanda.7 жыл бұрын

    Namaste 🙏

  • @pinwpono5785
    @pinwpono57857 жыл бұрын

    do a how to backside flip

  • @user-ks3jw3cn4x

    @user-ks3jw3cn4x

    7 жыл бұрын

    Δημητρης Αγαπητος just varial flip + body varial.

  • @Andrei-eb2du

    @Andrei-eb2du

    7 жыл бұрын

    you don't flick the same a varial flip and a backside flip

  • @theobaer9076

    @theobaer9076

    4 жыл бұрын

    Just out of curiosity its been 2 years since this comment was made csn you backside flip now

  • @datguy9408

    @datguy9408

    4 жыл бұрын

    Δημητρης Αγαπητος Did you ever get the trick?

  • @SSJSkates
    @SSJSkates4 жыл бұрын

    Is that a master sword deck???

  • @stefanhrvatski9152
    @stefanhrvatski91527 жыл бұрын

    I notice that you use a an anti-noise filter on your videos. But I think you should turn it down a little, because you get this glitchy floppy sound if you apply it too hard. A little noise isn't as bad as this. Thanks for the tip, I'm gonna try to learn how to step off without putting weight on the back foot.

  • @matteobruno1801
    @matteobruno18017 жыл бұрын

    i love u after this video

  • @tpalermo4027
    @tpalermo40272 жыл бұрын

    imagine going to skate park and you see a guy without his shoes

  • @jackshaw6793
    @jackshaw67937 жыл бұрын

    Back when dinosaurs still roamed the Earth, this trick was called a "step hop". A no comply was when you planted your front foot on a parking block or curb and bonked the back truck up and over. Natas had the best one ever. Not sure when the name confusion started. Probably around the same time "frontside indy" happened.

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