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In a recent episode of 4 Sided Dive, Matt Mercer said that in a recent session, he gave them essentially a puzzle with no solution. Not because he wanted it to be impossible to solve, but because he wants the players to create the solution. He purposely plans for the circumstances, then steps back and says “Solve.” This is genius because it keeps the three frames in play, encourages role play and ingenuity, and cuts back on prep time for the DM. So if the party does something completely batshit cray-cray that could feasibly solve the problem, he rewards them by accepting their answer as the solution.

@TheADHDM

8 ай бұрын

Thank you for sharing that, that's really cool! I have a love-hate relationship with that approach, because on the one hand, what the players come up with as a group is almost always cooler than what I baked up alone, but on the other hand, I think it really has to be invisible to the player or a little bit of the magic goes away. I'm definitely a fan of the middle ground, where there IS a "proper" solution, but any road the players take to get there is great. I'll have to watch that video actually, because it sounds like that may even be what he's saying

I believe puzzles have to be thought differently for ttrpgs. Cause you gotta make them be exploided by the gamestyle of the players and meet it with the story. So they feel rewarded by the character they made and you see them how good they improve into getting in character to manage this situations. Its not an exact science but when you know the players and their limitations as a DM you can give them a challenge where you can either give the spotlight to one of them or make them work together into facing the puzzle. Which i believe is one of the best ways to know if it worked or not.

@TheADHDM

8 ай бұрын

> make them work together I really think that's a good metric for most challenges in ttrpgs! Thanks for watching and for sharing your thoughts

@marxmeesterlijk

8 ай бұрын

I was reading a bit about westmarches style campaigns and one thing that really stood out to me was that the person who came up with it always but some bonus stuff behind a challenge that required a very specific thing to solve or was too hard to do right now. So for example a treasure door with a DC30 lock on it. So there was always a reason to go back to town, hire an expert or get a thing you need and return when your more prepared. So you can reuse the same dungeon in a natural way (and ofcourse have it been 'restocked'/taken over by more powerful beings.)

@TheADHDM

8 ай бұрын

@@marxmeesterlijk I love this!

My biggest tip with puzzles is that they should never block progress completely. Give the PCs a riddle to solve to get some bonus loot, but don't block all story progress behind it. That way the players can be thinking about the puzzle while they do other things. The way I did it in one of my recent games was I gave the PCs a puzzle box, essentially, that requires exposure to certain elements to play some interesting lore tid bits. One of the players is really interested in the lore and puzzle solving, but this thing never blocks any progress and isn't required for the story or any given adventure.

@TheADHDM

8 ай бұрын

That sounds like a pretty good compromise! The fact that they had to expose it to elements, presumably, with their spells or other resources is awesome. Thank you for watching!

@cameronmarshall-straw6627

8 ай бұрын

Yeah so far they have used a fireplace, the acid splash spell, and getting the puzzle box struck by lightning to uncover more information. The ingenuity has been rather interesting to watch

@TheADHDM

8 ай бұрын

@@cameronmarshall-straw6627 >Getting the puzzle struck by lightning Now THAT's something I want to see LMAO I'm imagining trying to stick it to the top of a cathedral in a lightning storm, or picking a fight with an air elemental, that's great

Riddles presented by a disembodied voice (or hologram wizard!) which expect a certain spoken answer are truly the best example of a bad TTRPG puzzle! There are simply no bounds to what the answer could be -- a person can just say anything. Riddle-style puzzles should be solvable with some kind of knowledge or intelligence check (to account for the simple fact that players can play characters who are more intelligent or knowledgeable than they are!), and the characters should be able to find the answer somehow (for example, maybe the castle with the king's tomb in it should contain some of his writings, wherein he talks about how there is nothing heavier than the burden of his kingly duties.) Ideally, they should also be framed in such a way that puts bounds on what the answer could be! A code word could be anything, but a pedestal with some runes on it that translate to "place upon me the heaviest thing in the castle" gives us the additional information that the answer to the riddle is an object that fits on that pedestal, and that that object is (or is supposed to be) in the castle somewhere. (If the castle is filled with monsters, perhaps there's an ogre running around somewhere with a shiny new hat, or a gelatinous cube with the remains of an unlucky treasure hunter in it.) ...I _think_ that covers all the frames. The riddle for the player to think about, the castle for the characters to explore, and a mechanical system for finding hints with a skill roll (and perhaps a fight with a monster.) It's probably not necessary to overdesign a puzzle if it's just for a little bonus, though! I think that "What can go up a chimney down, but can't go down a chimney up?" would make a nice hint that some extra loot is hidden in the gallery behind a painting of a princess holding a parasol.

@TheADHDM

8 ай бұрын

> behind a painting of a princess holding a parasol Weeee have a winner! Riddles as hints instead of riddles as obstacles is absolutely a better way to go. Thank you for watching, and for the thoughtful comment!

I love concocting puzzles as well, but I grab some non-cast members of my campaign to test the puzzle on personal timer. If they can't solve it with what they have in front of them, then I remake it. Using PF2e, one puzzle was very easy to understand. Push big ass orbs into depressions in the ground with a button at the bottom which the PCs were to light to push (or it was magical). 3 Orbs, 3 slots. What they didn't know is what touching each orb to push would end up doing to the characters. The first orb when touched caused them to take damage unless they ran around, which occurred during a fight. It forced them to burn an action (out of 3), but ended up being the easiest. Another had a form of Confusion, which on a failed Will save (Wisdom if 5e), they would begin to attack anyone near them. They solved after the first bout of confusion (tying up an ally) by all but the best Will save person leaving the room, which nullified the Confusion as there was nothing to attack but the orb until it reached it's slot. A++ response The final one caused anyone who touched it to be fatigued/weakened, which does no good when pushing said orb. So they used magic or materials to leverage the orb into the slot. The Investigator (PF2e class) really loved this one as his Intelligence allowed him to surmise weight, angle, etc to basically push it once, and watch it bounce off of items placed in the way to deflect the orb so it would roll on a single push despite 2 corners. Since we play in a Virtual Table Top, it was visually engaging, fun, and easy to solve. And each character had a chance to shine using their character/class strengths

@TheADHDM

7 ай бұрын

It sounds like you incorporated the game's systems into the puzzle, which is awesome. VTT adding something to "touch" for the players is also a great element Thank you for watching!

More ideas: you know those security questions like "what is your mother's maiden name?" Those sort of "I can confirm my identity even if I don't have the key/password because I know my own history" challenges would make great puzzles. You might have to go on a quest to learn where a certain character was born or cast legend lore to ask about their mother (your mother, heh) but it is still a puzzle that makes sense in world. Especially good for an ancient lich who's worried he'll need to get into his own vault but won't have the key or might forget the password

@TheADHDM

8 ай бұрын

I love that! It also low-key teaches people to be more careful with their cybersecurity habits LOL "We checked the Lich's LinkedIn and found out what high school he went to" There's one SORT OF like that in Baldur's Gate 3 that I won't spoil here but I really like that format for a puzzle Thank you for watching!

@marxmeesterlijk

8 ай бұрын

that super. love it.

@philipmaher5294

8 ай бұрын

@jobobminer8843 did you just make a Dungeons and Daddies reference

@jobobminer8843

7 ай бұрын

​@@philipmaher5294No, actually, I didn't but multiple people can have the same idea I guess. Did they do something similar?

@MemphiStig

7 ай бұрын

The password is Swordfish. It's always Swordfish.

I added a treasure to a glass box with a riddle that explains how to open it. The riddle has no answer, I expect the players to smash it.

@TheADHDM

2 ай бұрын

You know what they say, people who live in glass houses shouldn't tell riddles

thanks! this is one my pet peeves in RPGs, so I'm glad you can articulate a good reason why for me. :) One of my favourite tangibly related tips that I like is that if your making some sort of dungeons with puzzle-like traps/challenges is to not put in a predifined solutions. But instead give the players tools to figure it out themselves. SO simple example is a pit that need to be crossed. Don't try to figure out how the players are going to cross it. But just describe the stuff that's there. Maybe there is a loose door that they can build a bridge from, maybe they found some rope on a dead adventurer. Let them figure it out.

@TheADHDM

8 ай бұрын

> maybe there is a loose door/maybe they found some rope There's a mechanic I really like in Ryuutama where, at the beginning of combat, each player gets to put an object or feature of some kind on the battlefield. So you're fighting in a ballroom and one of the players says "Okay there's a chandelier up there" and you know they're going to try to shoot it down, or "There's a campfire to the right of the tent" and maybe they'll use their magic to flare it up, or kick up the embers to distract someone. I've thought about using this approach on puzzles before as well. Once the players get the hang of the fact that they can't just say "Yeah there's a flying carpet and a vorpal sword in the room too!" the creativity is really fun Thank you for watching!

Putting a physical or tangible non-combat obstacle in front of your players that fits the setting diegeticaly is so important. How does the party down the drawbridge, cross the flooded river, get through the collapsed tunnel, etc. These aren't obviously puzzles but they're puzzling (effectively puzzles) There is a place for puzzles-puzzles though. Riddles and puzzles are good when riddles and puzzles make sense in world. Riddles and puzzles show up in real life but usually they're done for their own sake (for example, rubik's cubes and blacksmith's puzzles are real puzzles that exist today. How might a fantasy analog look?) Irl puzzles as obstacles to certain goals also exists and are intended to deliberately confpund others who try solving them. Some classic examples of irl D&D style puzzles are ciphers, passwords, maps/hidden locations. These puzzles are more about interacting with and unwinding your world's history than guessing the right answer. Finding the guy who made the cipher is just as valid a solution as guessing it. (And probably way better because irl ciphers can be next to impossible to crack) In these sorts of scenarios, the goal isn't for the puzzle to be solved but for an interesting obstacle to be defeated. This bottom section is entirely self indulgent. Ignore at your own discretion. Some more ideas for puzzles -How do move the stuff from the vault into your own permanent possession? -Knowing the mechanism of the trap, How to we get past it? -How do we de-escalate our pre-ww1 fantasy analog from exploding into fantasy ww1? (Sustainably) -How do we prevent our post WW1 era fantasy analog from going to war again? (Sustainably for reals this time) How do we move the tribe of half starved civilians out of the warzone? How do we get suprise on this encounter How can we win the next fight before it begins (sun zu style.) -There are a lot of the same traps here. How can we reliably detect them so we don't keep triggering them? (10 ft pole, I see you)

@TheADHDM

8 ай бұрын

I definitely agree that these things COULD occur in the game world as diegetic obstacles. A powerful wizard would TOTALLY have a fancy magic lock on their sanctum. On the other hand, the fantasy of ciphers or passphrases is in the same camp as known languages or even darkvision in D&D, to me. You either have the thing you need to move forward, or you don't, and the players have a shared experience at the table, so if one person has the "key" effectively they all do. It's not bad, it's just underwhelming. VTT language-specific chat and individualized character darkvision/light radius turns these into cooler experiences, but it's tough to engage with normally. So if I was playing and encountered, for instance, a locked vault with a passphrase and a cryptic hint, I would immediately start looking for ways to circumvent it in the game and on my character sheet. If it became clear that the game wasn't moving forward until I, Skyler, examined the cryptic hint and made my best guess, it would take the wind out of my sails. Now, if I had a knock spell and knew it would draw enemies, but an alternative was solving the passphrase with the hint, I think that would be awesome. That's not to say we shouldn't reward cleverness, and give players opportunities to flex it, which is why that bottom section rules! You're giving the characters power to make choices (how do we move all this heavy junk, how can we make the most of this dire situation, how do we get out of here alive) that directly affect their situation.

Great advice, and i appreciate the break down of why puzzles break down a game so quickly. It's nice to see some options rather than just hearing "puzzles suck!" Once again.

@TheADHDM

8 ай бұрын

Thank you so much for watching! I feel like I could make a six hour video of use cases that reinterpret the word puzzle a hundred times, so boiling it down to this leaves a lot unsaid

@namelessspook7987

8 ай бұрын

@@TheADHDM very true, but it's a good place to start.

Also i love how this video is full of useful references and light humour as well with a good narrative to point into the lateral thinking needed to make very interesting puzzles which dont have one single solution but a few specific ways to approach it, and when they think separating what doesnt work from what it would work, thats when the reward feels rewarding.

@TheADHDM

8 ай бұрын

Thank you very much!

Here's an idea of those using Dispel Magic on magic doors... There are multiple doors in this dungeon that all open to the same passcode. Plus, they reset each time they open/close. So, yes, the players can get through that way, but it's much more cost-effective to figure out the riddle.

@TheADHDM

Ай бұрын

You'd be an excellent security wizard yeah if they're using 15 levels worth of spell slots to get past a handful of doors that's gonna hurt when it's Counterspell time

puzzles without an answer i think are kinda fun, the players try a couple things and the third thing sounds cool so you go 'yup thats the thing, you are all so smart i thought you would never guess'

@Tomfoolery1980

15 күн бұрын

but everything you said about shoving a riddle into the mix is so true, we had to get to the druid queen and the doorman said we needed to answer three riddles to show we were worthy. happy music played in my head for about 10 minuites as i pretended to look like i was thinkin

@TheADHDM

15 күн бұрын

I get both perspectives. I think "someone posed an impossible problem and it's up to the party to manufacture those circumstances" (Like "oh this door will only open when the fish of the southern lake walk on land, lemme cast polymorph on one") is different than "Behold, I the dungeon master know the (single correct) answer to this riddle" but in reality you're just making the players fill up a subjective effort meter until you decide they've done enough

This is good advice. I think as a new DM I tend to think of them like Bilbo vs Gollum riddle battle, but that’s not interactive

@TheADHDM

8 ай бұрын

I appreciate it! The aesthetic of the Hobbit riddle scene is so alluring, I totally get that. Same as the door into Moria in Fellowship. We as DMs can also think of how that would happen in the game: Bilbo's player gets an insight check, or just flat out notices (since Gollum is not subtle in any sense) that this creature has bad intentions. Bilbo is alone, and just picked up an unidentified magic item. He stalls until he risks putting on the ring and gets out of there. I could totally see that playing out in game

>MOTHER 3 t-pose puzzle WRITE THAT DOWN, WRITE THAT DOWN *frantic scribbling*

@TheADHDM

8 ай бұрын

It does make for a silly tone change in an otherwise very dour campaign. Thank you for watching!

7:08 I really struggle to crush my inner "muder-hobo" because when I see these three pillars I just see: Combat (against enemies physically or magically) Combat (against the unknown, topographically, cartographically, spiritually or ethereally) Combat (against the social order & or pathos/ethos/logos of person or people) But I gotta say this is absolutely the core of "good puzzle design" because it's not necessarily a concious decision that players make, but when faced with a challenge that lacks clear direction to engage from these three pillars are essential the first places players will instinctively tap into to seek solutions. A well designed puzzle will give CONSEQUENCES for using the "wrong pillar" to solve a puzzle.... but it won't punish players by refusing their "solution" outright. If that mage or wizard wants to dump a bunch of spells into a magic door protected by ancient enchantments? Ok, maybe they find weak points that'll breach the protection seals & enchantments..... and they'll trigger a curse! Congratulations, you "solved" the puzzle your way, now collect your prize. Oh u mad? Well a side quest may alleviate the issue, but that's going to have to wait. 😂 Consequences people! Life & games are more fun with "Yes and" also going "Yes and" is great way to teach players that they're free to find alternate solutions as long as they're willing to pay whatever price that may come with (sometimes it CAN be good, but brute forcing should rarely be that rewarding...)

@TheADHDM

7 ай бұрын

We love unintended consequences! Rather than a literal curse, I like when the other people in the game world are like "You did WHAT to a sacred relic in our temple?" But then again sometimes a good old fashioned curse is just what the doctor ordered Thank you for watching!!

One of the greatest dnd channels

@TheADHDM

2 ай бұрын

That's very kind of you to say! thanks for watching 🙏

@calin6327

2 ай бұрын

@@TheADHDM I really appreciate the thought process in your videos, it's quite stimulating!

Puzzles: succeed in 1d4 rounds for bonus exp; fail and the answer is given to you through dice rolls and we move on

@TheADHDM

3 ай бұрын

putting an ingame "timer" on it certainly alleviates the stall, if not the lack of frame 2 and 3 interactivity

@Joshuazx

3 ай бұрын

@@TheADHDM i think your channel has some hidden value for me. Im going to binge your stuff soon. As a fellow adjd gamer, I would like to note that I think I hate ship to ship combat if I have to share control of a ship with other players. Your thoughts?

@TheADHDM

3 ай бұрын

I think it would depend if the roles on the ship where clearly defined! Otherwise yeah my brain would expand to try to manage ALL resources, it would be like sharing a MTG deck with four people in one game. I kind of have this problem as a forever DM when I do get to play.

Your voice is like the dude from Kung Fury. That is a compliment. Also, I agree puzzles can be bad. I have been enjoying "extended tests" in fallout 2d20. Can really tie in a lot of character abilities doing different things.

@TheADHDM

9 күн бұрын

Thanks for watching! Grizzled Future Skyler voice is only possible thanks to the horrors of an averted timeline

Yeah really good video. I personally am a big fan of the "any solution progresses the story but in different ways" examples you gave. It gives some great opportunity to engage players in the storytelling and is probably a good mindset for all aspects of DnD. The world exists and the players exist in it, they can influence the world but their influence isnt required for things to happen and their actions and inactions lead to different results and thats fine since the world moves on. Also gotta echo the "published adventure puzzles suck" point, recently finished my first adventure as a DM with my group of 2 experienced players and 3 new players. We chose Dragons of Stormwreck isle to get something short to get us all accustomed to the game first before settling on a longer campaign. Gotta say as a entry product for new players it only did the bare minimum. Adventure starts with way too many NPCs that serve no purpose and have hardly anyway to support the story. There is nothing to do on the island except for the 3 isolated key locations and some random encounters that don't tie into anything. Most of the motivations for things are bland and rigid. You just get told by NPCs to go somewhere and do something for them and the players will do it since they get XP for it but the characters don't have good motivations to help beyond being good people. There was one puzzle that involved rotating a few statues so they point in the right direction which had some hints about it in a locked journal. My players found and opened the journal to get the hint before being confronted with the puzzle room which helped a lot and the puzzle was relatively simple. There were also alternate ways to go past the puzzle that were highlighted so it felt alright but there was really just no need for it besides making a cool set piece and had it gone badly the whole gameplay pace wouldve slowed to a crawl. The big bad of the campaign was also a bit of a joke. I know DnD has to market itself with Dragons but a Wyrmling really doesn't cut it. While the fight was still decently threatening it was set up really awkwardly in the module as it expected the boss to be able to escape once, have the players leave the boss area even though they won already, return to start its evil plan, have the players come back and fight it again. Instead the thing just ate a nasty paladin crit and died after a few rounds during the initial fight. All of these things are probably fixable by a good DM with lots of experience and interest in the setting but I personally wasn't that DM. I am new to DMing and was looking for an adventure that could cover for my inexperience while providing useful advice, instead I found a rigid barebones adventure that constantly broke up its pace to treat the reader like a 5 year old while simultaneously providing little to no assistance when it actually mattered. It took us 5 sessions of 4hrs each to complete Dragons of Stormwreck Isle and I can't really recommend over the previous new player adventures. We still had a lot of fun together and chose Waterdeep dragonheist as our next adventure. Having a more fleshed out setting with factions that have actual motivations, interests and goals will probably lend itself better to actually engaging my players and myself.

@TheADHDM

8 ай бұрын

Thank you for watching! I haven't run Dragons of Stormwreck Isle, because when I flipped through it I noticed exactly what you had said, these NPCs are there for no reason other than so the player characters aren't alone. I'm really excited for you to play Dragon Heist, I think that's one of the better published 5e adventures. If you remember, swing back by to say which villains you ended up running!

When I have done puzzles, I've had at least 2 or 3 ways that I've thought of for solving it. And keep an open mind if plays come up with something creative. Short version, puzzles are ok if the answers are flexible.

@TheADHDM

8 ай бұрын

That definitely makes it less of a slog! For my money, if I'm going to put in that work for a flexible solution, I'd rather spend it on something the characters can participate in too. I do have an unreasonable aversion to task-switching, though, so there's some of my neuro-spice at play. Thank you for watching!

@jobobminer8843

8 ай бұрын

@@TheADHDM I would agree with you here. I mentioned this in my comment but puzzles do show up in real life (if quite rarely) and can (emphasis - can) be quite fun if executed right. However, I think puzzling challenges like the ghosts you mentioned in the video almost always better serve the game

Man, not to say you don’t with glasses, but you look really good without glasses

@TheADHDM

7 ай бұрын

But I can't even see myself to check! Oh what bitter irony Thank you for watching!

These are some good examples, but I think I would really find a use for more examples. YES I want to rip them off, why? Because it is as simple as children learning to read and write: We copy the master, we learn why it works the way it does from the master (This video), then we make our own changes (imagine writing in cursive rather than blocky letters) and only after that we can truly master it! So, a Combat puzzle is definitely the easiest, Vampire have garlic, Werewolves have Sunlight, Zombies have Fire.... Okay there is a lot of undead here, so I guess combat puzzles are difficult without including those? I guess we could have a 3-headed dog where 2 heads are always awake, as such it never fully sleeps. Or a Golem that asks you to "Reveal thy Golden Suit to command the Golem army" (Bonus points for any Pratchett fans out there). What about Exploration? ... I have no idea. This is part of why I am here, I am a Combat player looking to improve as a GM, and anything that isn't at least theatrical Combat, is not combative enough for me. Roleplaying? See above...

@TheADHDM

4 ай бұрын

I can't get into specifics, but be on the lookout for a cool puzzle book from one of my personal favorite puzzle designers in the next year!

@gendor5199

4 ай бұрын

@@TheADHDM If I may draw even more out: Who is this favorite puzzle designer of yours?

4:55 umbrella

@TheADHDM

7 ай бұрын

Nailed it! Thank you for watching!

I’m working on a homebrew D&D campaign and there are two puzzles I would like your feedback on The first puzzle is the players have to find various notes scattered around the room and use them to decipher a code to a black, box on the wall (which is canonically some sort of alien life support system) (the players are not locked in the room at this moment and can leave. I’m also planning on there being a kind of way to get around finding the notes by rolling a D 20 (whose results are not changed by any of your characters modifiers) upon rolling a 20 they can pass ) The second puzzle is somewhere in a desert area of the map there would be a tower. near the tower compasses seem to stop working, and medals seem to be dragged into the sand. There is a small pedestal in front of the tower. The pedestal is in a language other than Common. And the pedestal has a type of riddle on it. The riddle reads(who is revealed nexus shall find an open door with those who steal it shall perish before this cities gates) and requires the players to find a certain item and place it on the pedestal (they could easily find the answer to this riddle by reading through the custom rulebook/book that describes all the custom character types, items, and spells.) And for context, I will give the information about what happens when they solve the puzzle any nearby compasses would begin to point to the tower, metals would stop being dragged into the sand, and ground would begin to shake as a long lost city rises from the sand. the item that they used to solve the puzzle is now partially disassembled with a swirling, mass of energy in the center of it (the city has some importance to the storyline of the new campaign but you don’t need to know what the importance is it just know it serves some importance but does not completely block you from progressing If you do not figure out the answer to the puzzle. Also, the tower is in an open part of the desert and if they cannot figure it out or don’t have the item they can leave at any time)

@TheADHDM

3 ай бұрын

tying the lore important city to the puzzle is a nice move! Thank you for watching!

I implemented a real life timer of 4 hours in a one shot with a very prince of Persia of Persia 2 vibe to it. Once the time is up, all characters die, so they had to be quick. In these scenarios, time waster puzzles like mazes and riddles are super exciting, because now there is an actual game element tied to it. Of course, being lenient with solutions is still necessary or else players can get mad

@TheADHDM

8 ай бұрын

That sounds like it was a fun session, sometimes giving no time to think is a great way to go Thank you for watching

Only 3 minutes in and I'm really laughing xD this video is so good and so my kind of humour xD amazing job!

@TheADHDM

7 ай бұрын

Oh hey I remember your high level play video! Thanks for watching. Looking forward to your next upload

@TheUglyGoblin

7 ай бұрын

@@TheADHDM Aw no way!? You watched it 🥺 aw thank you so much :,3 Really loving your stuff! I'm so impressed xD

Great Vid! I fully agree that the "puzzles" in Tasha's are garbage, and thanks for calling them out! See you in the next one!

@TheADHDM

8 ай бұрын

Thank you so much! It's hard because Tasha's is a contender for all-time favorite 5E book, but there are a dozen or so pages that could have been used on something so much better.

I think it'd be entertaining to lean into the classic puzzle trope for an encounter, but still allow players to bypass it with in game mechanics. Show evidence of where other adventurers have used spells to bypass the puzzle entirely like Stone Shape through the "One Truth One Lies Door Puzzle" so that it'd invite players to engage with it LIKE D&D adventurers but you know you're always going to have a player who wants to look smart and solve it the "correct" way. It'd be a funny way to start an argument amongst the party on how to solve the puzzle, as their paranoia and overthinking will overcomplicate the most basic of problems. But of course, only do this once in a while. >:)

@TheADHDM

7 ай бұрын

>paranoia and overthinking will overcomplicate the most basic of problems. Ah yes, see my personal favorite devilish puzzle: A closed door Thank you for watching!

Can’t believe I missed this!!

@TheADHDM

6 ай бұрын

Yeah youtube's not the best at notifying lol

literally used "5th element stones" to make a "simple"puzzle, it took them almost 2 hours to figure out maybe, use some fire on the stone with the thing that looks like fire etched onto it to activate it and place it on its clearly designated pedestal. Some groups just need a "puzzle" to be a few skill based rolls if you ever want it 'solved' lol

@TheADHDM

3 ай бұрын

Yeah I've had some "simple" puzzles and traps become entire evenings of wasted time on both the player and DM side because people just want to try anything but the "obvious" solution lol thanks for watching!

When I think of a good puzzle, I remember the Hunter Exam in Hunter X Hunter where they had the two doors and seemingly the only way to finish was to abandon a teammate. I thought the solution for that was completely clever and I did not expect it at all. Something along that line that makes players think outside the box would be fun!

@TheADHDM

7 ай бұрын

That's great! I love Hunter X Hunter. Still reeling from that Togashi tweet. In that vein I also enjoy the "puzzle" in Death House which the party can solve if they interpret it literally. I won't spoil it here, but the players having one certain solution that costs a lot, while being able to try uncertain solutions that cost less, is a good compromise. Thank you for watching!

Love your videos. Hope you have a great day

@TheADHDM

8 ай бұрын

I appreciate it, you too! Thank you for watching.

Great points. I hate riddles. Especially as game elements. And if you wanna run around pushing blocks and hitting switches, there's a whole genre of crpg's made just for you. And yeah, they're mostly fun, because it's a video game. But that doesn't always work at the table. The greatest challenge to players, puzzle or not, is how to use character abilities to solve the problem at hand.

@TheADHDM

7 ай бұрын

> They're mostly fun, because it's a video game Yup. The tactile element is what makes those cool. There's an argument to be made that you can accomplish the same thing in VTT, and I think for things like lines of sight/light sources, exploring mazes, and moving physical objects around, you can make it way more fun in VTT, but you can also just make something that actually fits in the game with way less work! Thank you for watching

For a riddle you may or may not have heard: a container without key, hinge, or lid But golden treasure lay within What is it?

@TheADHDM

7 ай бұрын

This one has me SCRAMBLED

I like this video a lot. I think my only real counter to it is if your players actually like to do that kind of thing. I do puzzles occasionally and my players enjoy them when they are added, but I can see why people wouldn’t enjoy them and I will say that I can understand it taking you out of the game.

@TheADHDM

8 ай бұрын

Thank you so much! That's a great caveat, I think the same is true of any aspect of the game that relies on player brains a lot; super tactical combat, tense social situations, logic puzzles

@PresidentMystry

8 ай бұрын

I should mention that is only one group I DM for though, and none of them have adhd, so that might be a factor. Also I have another group that I have not done puzzles for as of right now, but a few of them do have adhd so yeah. It really just is based on the group

Curious how you feel about puzzles in movies and books? 🤔 sometimes I’m really tempted to write in riddles or thinking traps on fetch it quest type sequences!

@TheADHDM

8 ай бұрын

Well, within a story, the reader does not have to stop and solve the riddle before they're allowed to finish the narrative. They might feel compelled to if it's a murder mystery or something like that, but they're allowed to keep going uninterrupted Thank you for watching!

"The only good puzzle is a dead puzzle!" *steps on a game of Clue* "I'm doing my part!" [Would you like to learn more?] 😂❤

@TheADHDM

8 ай бұрын

🤣 the exact words of the text. Thank you for watching!

*Watches two minutes and takes a deep breath Prepare situations, not plots. This applies just as much to puzzles as it does any other encounter or adventure in ttrpgs.

@TheADHDM

8 ай бұрын

Hey thanks for watching! Dungeons and puzzles as situations are definitely the way to go.

@Cybermaul

8 ай бұрын

@@TheADHDM It's true! I tried making ye olde logic puzzles earlier in my DMing career, before I got into the OSR space. They took players out of the game, required a lot of fiddling around with whatever words or paper puzzle pieces I was using, and weren't terribly memorable. Giving players a rickety bridge to cross with something actively endangering their livelihoods along the way is a far more engaging puzzle, since it requires actual problem solving and usage of resources available to the characters. Your comments about diegetic puzzles were spot on, and I hope many viewers can use these lessons to improve their games!

Also, DMs... please make your puzzles make sense in the world. Like if somebody doesn't want anybody opening a door, why implement a puzzle to let people open it? If there's a good reason, great. If not, skip the puzzle.

@TheADHDM

7 ай бұрын

That's my beef with a lot of published puzzles. Few go further than "A wizard did it" Thanks for watching!

The thing that annoys me most about the alphabetizing puzzles, and i admit this is not actually the main problem and I'm just a linguistics nerd, is why the hell would the *modern english alphabet* matter in an exotic far off tomb built by people who spoke a long dead language of their own? Or especially in some of the more fantastical contexts like if you're exploring a citatel built by the angels themselves and you find... oh yeah, another puzzle that just lists things off by english alphabetical order. It's like wotc? John Dee is calling, he's saying you stole his bit

@TheADHDM

16 күн бұрын

that's a silly nitpick I have too; I understand it's an abstraction of a more complex or appropriate puzzle in the game, but latin alphabet ciphers are highlights-magazine-tier gameplay, and they comprise half of all published puzzles.

Puzzles are fine, it's players where problem is. If you know your group you'll know if you can drop some puzzles and riddles at them or just let them murderhobo like braindead nerds

@TheADHDM

8 ай бұрын

First, thank you for watching! Definitely knowing your group is the crux of all great DM choices. I'll also say there is a huge sliding scale between murderhobodom and out-of-game logic challenges. The sweet spot for each group is somewhere along that line, and each extreme neglects a different aspect necessary to inhabit the game; pure murderhobos don't typically think about their character choices (frame three), and a puzzle or riddle that doesn't incorporate the game rules or character resources (frame two) is always going to be worse for the game than one that does

@luminous3558

8 ай бұрын

Even for non murderhobos it can be hard since you gotta communicate the puzzle right and they gotta understand it right. Often it can be like in the video that different players get strong ideas that the solution to a puzzle is one thing and then keep forcing that triangle into the square mold until it fits(which it doesnt). There will just always be huge variance between expectations and reality.