"You can use any measurement mic as long as you have the correction file for it." Someone said this to me in conversation yesterday and I was like....shit. So, I'm guilty of spreading this rumor. I have a video called "How to make a $50 Behringer ECM8000 measure like an $700 Earthworks M30". The big point is that you don't need a special mic to start practicing with your audio analyzer. You can start today with whatever hardware you have available. Unfortunately, that's not the message that everyone received and now I get emails asking me for mic correction files. Here's the correction: 1. You don't need a mic correction file. 2. Any measurement mic will get the job done. 3. If you don't have a measurement mic, you can still use any other mic to make comparisons, which is the bulk of our work anyway. 4. Start today. 🙂 I also get a lot of requests like this: Can i get the calibration file for the behringer ecm8000 microphone? This is impossible. The only way I could make a calibration file for your microphone is if I had it physically with me and could compare it to one of my mics. Every mic has a unique response, especially the ECM8000, which makes a universal correction impossible. None of this is very important, as I attempted to explain above. Matching microphones only start to become important once you get into multi-mic measurements. Even then, I've never compared my mics and felt that they were so different that I really needed a correction to make them match. I hope that helps! :)

Yeah, getting hold of the calibrated microphone is the tricky part :)

Hi Nathan! Thank you!

The main problem is that you cannot ensure: 1) stability over long periods of time, 2) noise floor, 3) dynamic range. Regarding 1), if you have an expensive monitor and a stable audio system gain and a room that can be set up identically over time, you could use MLS noise signals to periodically compare your cheap micrphone against itself after a freshly measured frequency response and get a new calibration curve prior to using it for any serious measurement. MLS, being deterministic, should give identical results over time. But you are strongly relying on the monitor stability over time, which cannot be guarenteed. Regarding 2), if you are using an electret microphone, you are limited by the FET preamplifier, which in the case of a cheap microphone chances are that it is very noisy, This has no easy solution, but there are people who have disassembld the microphone and substituted the FET by a better one. If using a dynamic microphone, the noise floor is frequently higher due to the coil resistance and its low senitivity and this cannot be fixed at all, so it will be impossible to use it to measure low-noise rooms. Regarding 3), there is no obvious solution, the microphone just starts to distort the signal anywhere around 100 dB because of the low quality of the diaphragm. That's why standard microphones used in serious sound level meters cost thousands of dollars, and yet they must be periodically calibrated at a laboratory.

@nathanlively

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks Fmiyara! Great points.

Now I just need to find somewhere the flat calibrated mic :D but yeah... I got many measurements with REW and used a trash microphone, after I calibrate it I can use the calibration file on my measurement and fix them, great information thanks alot

Good videos Nathan, you really help a lot! Keep going!

Congratulations. Very good and interesting video. Well made technically because you show clearly the program screen and menus as your setup and very well organized the way the information is concisely presented at the time it is executed in the software

@nathanlively

3 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

Nice

Hi Nathan! can you give us more details about "difference between curves" calculator?

@nathanlively

6 жыл бұрын

I'll have to do a video demo later. For now, you can read the instruction manual and let me know if you get stuck.

:O that's insane

Nathan hello, thanks for all the knowledge trespassed, first of all, your videos are supper clear to learn. I am about to buy a mmic for measurements, my options are DBX RTA-M and Dayton Audio Emm-6. I was more into the DBX as it seems to have a higher Sensitivity, Impedance and is more robust, apart from being a well know Company with a good reputation, but then I realized that doesn't come with an specific calibration file as the Emm-6 (I use REW), so I guess my measurements will be affected a bit more in the DBX? I don't know, I wonder which of this characteristics weights more in order to take a decision. I appreciate any suggestion here, Thanks so much!!!

@nathanlively

2 жыл бұрын

Hi AguPonce! Thanks for your words of support. I wouldn't worry about the correction file too much. It only makes a small difference. Worry more about build quality and reliability and customer support and maybe resale value. I can't comment on either mic except to say that I know people who have liked both. I don't know if you really going to start to see significant differences until you are comparing a $100 mic with a $1,000 mic.

@aguponcefractalblow4761

2 жыл бұрын

@@nathanlively alright thank you!!! Finally bought the Dayton Audio one

This works at this one level. But the sensitivity maybe is different within the spectrum.

@nathanlively

3 жыл бұрын

Mmmm, interesting. So what would be the result of that?

@Suron23

3 жыл бұрын

@@nathanlively I think you now have at least an other frequency response?! Just thought.

Hello Nathan, I have a question. If you I use my corrected mic (emx7150) as a reference signal and use my new "non corrected" ECM8000 as a measurement signal and capture something, assuming I have aligned them properly to receive the same signal, then export the measurement of the ecm and use it as a correction file for itself, wouldn't I have the same result? It would be interesting and really fast job if it works.. Just curious..

You think sonarwork sound id reference mic is a legit thing ? If one has to use it with smaart only

Thanks for the video, but since you DO need an expensive mic, what's the point?? Just use that one!

@nathanlively

2 жыл бұрын

Hey J, I have found that using a real time measurement system requires many mics. Doing it with one is almost impossible.

Can i use the currection curve to record with the mic in a DAW ?

@nathanlively

5 жыл бұрын

Hey Matt, sure. Why not? Tell me more.

Thanks. Is it possible to calibrate an uncalibrated mic with a calibrated spl meter?

@nathanlively

4 жыл бұрын

Hmmm, I don't think.

@jishusingh8361

4 жыл бұрын

@@nathanlively Thanks for replying.

Hello Bro,, could you please few video on mini dsp products😀. If possible., On mini dsp umik1/2.

@nathanlively

3 жыл бұрын

Hmmmm, probably not. Single channel measurements with a USB mic seem to be a lot more trouble than they're worth. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

Hi! I got stuck on the calculator! The number seems to import just fine but i get value errors and don't get any results at all. Don't know if that's got anything to do with the "protected" status of the document but maybe so. Google sheets won't open it for me.

@nathanlively

5 жыл бұрын

Hey DubMasterFish, thanks for checking out the video. Some ideas to try: 1. Re-upload the XML file to Google Sheets. 2. Re-import data from Smaart. 3. Make sure you are importing traces at 48kHz. Not sure if that matters, actually. I have seen bugs like this with the calculator. It doesn't work 100% of the time. You might have to play with it for a bit.

@DubMasterFish

5 жыл бұрын

@@nathanlively Thanks! I'll give that a try!

Do you recommend any particular mic for headphone sound quality measurements?

@nathanlively

Жыл бұрын

No, I've never done that. Sounds interesting.

for speakers that will be measured to two different mics, is it okay to use anything? single speaker full range or what do we have?

@nathanlively

Жыл бұрын

Hey Dillo, whatever full range source you have should work.If the speaker doesn't play 100Hz, you don't have valid data there.

Now maybe you can help me. I don't need great precision but I need a microphone with a very broad spectrum range like the earthworks m50 from 3 to 50000 Hz. Could you suggest to me something cheaper than this m50?

@nathanlively

3 жыл бұрын

Hi Manuel, I don't think I can help, but you might reach out to iSemCon or Mel Labs and check their product specs.

@manuelcornejo7405

3 жыл бұрын

@@nathanlively Ok thanks it is good to know. I will do it

@manuelcornejo7405

3 жыл бұрын

@@nathanlively Oh BTW I think that what I need is something like the thing described in this article, but I couldn't find any commercial product www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-08038-4

have you ever tried metric halo spectra foo ? thanks

@nathanlively

9 ай бұрын

hmmm, maybe once, a long time ago. What do you love about it?

What about microphone polar pattern¿? Measurement microphones are omniditectional in order to capture every single detail of the room. By using a cardioid or supercardioid you are measuring the speakers's response, rather than the hole room acoustics, which makes this "experiment" pretty useless.

@nathanlively

5 жыл бұрын

Great point UnreaLSD!

@nickloss2377

Жыл бұрын

measurement mics can be used for measuring room acoustics OR the response of individual speakers. it's useless only if you are not measuring individual speakers and only doing room acoustics. in other words it's not useless at all. not sure why you think measurement mic's can only take measurements of a room

What If I Just Want A Flat Response Right Through?

@nathanlively

3 жыл бұрын

Hey Gracie, are you saying that you want your microphone's response to be as flat as possible? Sounds great. Go for it. I think there are some good articles out there that compare measurement mics.

Correction curve calculator would be extremely useful if it were possible to download it. Keeps asking to request access then request failed to send. Less than ideal.

@nathanlively

2 жыл бұрын

Hey Matt, that calculator is nice, but the main thing it does is subtract the target from the measurement, which you can do in a few minutes in Excel. Save the result as a text file and you've got a mic correction curve.

but also it needs to be omnidirectional

can this be done on REW?

@nathanlively

4 жыл бұрын

Looks like it - www.roomeqwizard.com/help/help_en-GB/html/meter.html

so if i download calibration file of a measurement microphone then i can use a cheap omnidirectional microphone to match the response and generate the calibration file for the cheap omni mic??

@nathanlively

5 жыл бұрын

I'm not sure I totally understand what you are asking, but that doesn't sound correct. You need to create a microphone correct curve for your cheap mic against an expensive mic. I'm not sure how downloading will do that for you.

@mofared

5 жыл бұрын

@@nathanlively ok i understand what you mean now. previously i thought there is a way to generate a calibration file without actually owning a measurement microphone.

@charleskingReal

4 жыл бұрын

@@mofared Yeah, the video introduction is a little misleading. There's no way to avoid needing to have access to an expensive measurement mic in the first place. All you're doing is roughly copying the calibration of the original (expensive) mic by comparing it to the output of your cheap mic. This technique is useful if you have the chance to grab half an hour in a studio after hours. But if you don't have access to a costly calibrated mic in the first place it's no use.

Where's the full tutorial of this?

@nathanlively

7 ай бұрын

Here's my most recent one on the subject: kzread.info/dash/bejne/Zo6XxZqpnaabY9Y.htmlsi=kZGs08kXu3a5xYZ0

How can iget the correction curve, i failed to download it..

@nathanlively

2 жыл бұрын

Here you go: facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=2471033619704025&id=1871382083002518

Hi Nathan, I downloaded the correction curve calculator but the excel sheet is password protected. do you know the password for this?

@nathanlively

6 жыл бұрын

Hey Jamie, I haven't tried the excel version and I don't know the password. Can you use the Google Sheets version instead?

Can i do this on RiTA?

@nathanlively

Жыл бұрын

Hey Will, I'm not sure if there's a correction curve feature in RiTA, you should ask them. There likely is.

Can you help me learn liner array speaker tuning

@nathanlively

3 жыл бұрын

Hi Nash! How can I help?

@nashdaflash

3 жыл бұрын

@@nathanlively I want to learn how to tune linearray speakers so I want to start with signal path and hardware and software to get

what is the link for the process please ?

@nathanlively

2 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/k5NsybCEf7uvqKQ.html

@cedricschmidt6923

2 жыл бұрын

@@nathanlively thank you Nathan ! :-)

It still wont have the transient response of the Earthworks M30. It can get close, but Earthworks will still be better in almost every way except price. Also Earthworks has a lower noise floor that you can't do anything about in the Behringer.

@alf3k1

4 жыл бұрын

Transient response does not matter for frequency measurement

@ilijahmora

11 ай бұрын

@@alf3k1amplitude is only half the data needed. Data in The time domain is crucial for system optimization

Document is PWD protected, I cannot import any ASCII.....Please Help

@nathanlively

Жыл бұрын

Hey Sebastian, sorry to hear about the trouble. I'm not sure why it's doing that. I just opened it and it wasn't password protected for me. You can build your own pretty easily by subtracting magnitude values: kzread.info/dash/bejne/Zo6XxZqpnaabY9Y.html

Who does not work. Change points for commas.

@nathanlively

5 жыл бұрын

Hi Сергей, please see the end of this article for a possible solution - www.sounddesignlive.com/how-to-practice-reading-phase-traces-when-you-dont-have-a-pa/

why you dont send directly file :D ?

@nathanlively

2 жыл бұрын

Hey Ezgi, which file are you looking for?

@ezgievent8722

2 жыл бұрын

@@nathanlively you build already for ecm800 why you not share ?

@DavidB_AudioTech

2 жыл бұрын

@@ezgievent8722 yess please share your ecm8000 file

Wheres ECM8000 then?

@nathanlively

5 жыл бұрын

?

@dinospd

5 жыл бұрын

@@nathanlively How to make a $50 Behringer ECM8000 sound like an $700 Earthworks M30

@brandonmason388

5 жыл бұрын

I think you'd use the same process. Measure the curves of Behringer ECM and the Earthworks and use the correction to make them sound similar.

@sunnyfpv3694

5 жыл бұрын

@@brandonmason388 Well, the point is good if you know exactly the speaker's curve. Also, IMHO the 0$ mic's sensitivity on exact freq totally depends on the sound pressure and air humidity. If you take the measurement of that mic (which is not even supposed to be a measurement mic) and make it straight at some conditions, then at the other conditions it is most likely will be different, showing you a wrong picture of what is going on. My goal was to compare ECM8000 to any at least known and stable measurement mic to decide if I can use it or not, but what i see here- is just take a picture in the dark, call it bright (Or photoshop) - say nobody needs back light..

@Hankblue

3 жыл бұрын

@@rhodesmc123 The EMC8000 works with Sonarworks regardless, it's literally given on their website as an example of an alternate measuring mic.

First step,you need a M30

This is kinda misleading isn't it? You still need the fancy mic to calibrate against. Your claim that you don't need an expensive mic doesn't really follow.. Am I missing something?

@nathanlively

4 жыл бұрын

Hey Chris, I think if you want to find faults in my logic, you will find many. Yes, you would need a reference mic to compare to, which you would need to ask a friend for help with. But, most cheap measurement mics are no where near as bad as my 20 year old vocal mic. They are totally fine without any corrective curve. I used that to make a dramatic example. Here's the big message: don't wait to start practicing until you have the right mic. Start today. :)

@cjcrowley

4 жыл бұрын

@@nathanlively Sorry for the phrasing, that was a legit question. Thanks for this reply, it answered my question!

Great video all except for that loud annoying nerve-racking clicking of the mouse 🐁 🪤