I’m a very average vet rider 47. And I thought there was zero reason at all to have any suspension work done other than spring rate. Now That I’ve had my suspension reworked I’m all in on reworked suspension. It made a huge difference for me.

@rmatvmc

Жыл бұрын

That's awesome! There are a lot of riders that are in the same boat as you. The best you know is the best you have. - Chase

@lostinpa-dadenduro7555

Жыл бұрын

Yep. It makes the bike safer, more controlled and less tiring to ride.

@carbonr6r410

3 ай бұрын

you spelled *newbie* wrong

Back in the day starting out, I was as 145-150lb B class (C, B and A classes), bought a totally tricked out 82 CR-250 from my buddy who was 190lb A class (always finished top 3). I sort of got the sag right on his springs but the valving was so far off. Later I friend let me face his fairly stock 83 CR-250, he was about same class level and weight, he had his suspension 'tuned' to him. I was 5-10 sec faster per lap on his bike than mine (depending on track) and not nearly as tired after after 30 min. Suspension is #1 over motor.

Last year I setup a 01 RM250 for woods riding. After having the suspension re-sprung, re-valved and serviced from Pro Action I was very happy. I no longer felt like I was fighting the bike so much. Recently I purchased a 22 Beta 300 RR Race. After about 15 hours I'm happy with the stock KYB/Sachs setup and don't have plans to have it revalved. 180 Vet rider, mostly woods/trail

Had stock WP SUS revalved & sprung on '20.5 FC450RE & it helped, but didn't knock my socks off via performance improvement (had trouble balancing compliance w/bottoming resistance). Then had a set of used WP CV spring forks & Supertrax shock set up for me by the same company & they are impressive at absorbing big hits; have saved me a few times already where I would have died & blown-through on the revalved stock SUS. They have paid for themselves already in my eyes by saving my ass, WOULD NOT HESITATE TO BUY AGAIN!!! They absorb big hits & dissipate the energy very well so you don't get kicked near as hard when sending it a little too hard. I test & tune my suspension a lot...kind of nerd out on it. 6'2" 210lbs, 40 y/o VET MX rider, faster C/slower B class (I guess).

Perhaps a video on spring selection should have preceded the topic of valving. Rider weight drives spring rate that drives valving. Spring rate first then valve to accommodate springs, terrain, skill level and desired ride characteristics. If you are one of the lucky few that is 135-155 pounds and stock springs work for you, then custom valving should be considered if you have explored the full range of adjustment and don't find a suitable combination. I'm 6'4" and 270 pounds. My 350EXCF and YZ450FX beat me to death on the petrified whoops in my area. I purchased suitable springs for the YZ and can't wait to get new springs for the EXCF. Does the YZ require custom valving? Not till I reach the limit of compression or rebound adjustment. Then I send them off to Joe Schmuckatelli for valving. What I want to know is how do these guys determine valve stack configurations without a dyno and hard data. I don't believe in seat-of-the-pants design or black art.........

@vinceseyb2640

Жыл бұрын

Dyno is optimal but then of not read correctly it will only show the damping force curve, you really need to see the force vs displacement graphs. Look for excessive hysterisis. Theres suspension that's very questionable in terms of factory shim configurations with poor balance between to base valve relative to the mid. I believe Wp, showa and kyb all have different theories on how suspension should work based on how the stack the shims. You are correct with the statement springs first.

@rcafmaintainer3723

5 ай бұрын

I was one of those guys, 5’8” 140lbs, that was 22 years ago and 40lbs lighter. The stock springs on the 250F Yamaha, and my CR125, were still stiff, mind you I was a novice/C level motocross rider. I often had to go down one rate on the shock and fork springs. It seems 155-165 lbs was the spring rate from the factory.

Kb5 for guys in the PA area. He's a good dude and does great work. Suspension work is a game changer

Finally hearing some wise and true words about suspensions! Couldn't agree more 👌 Kudos for you guys for having this topic brought up and getting the discussion going 🙌

@rmatvmc

Жыл бұрын

Glad you liked the topic! I learned some stuff I didn't know before while filming this. TJ has a lot of knowledge and glad he shared some good stuff with us! - Chase

I'm on a stock 2022 WR450F and the stock valving is actually dangerous. I end up so fatigued with busied palms and painful shoulders that I end up whisky throttling. I can't find out how to re-valve it without paying a shop £1500 to do it.

I weigh 215lbs....so yes, everytime. I can't believe they are still (factory) springing bikes for the 165lb rider (even 450's). Ridiculous!

Great Topic for us guys who ride MX bikes in the Enduro World, the suspension is incredibly important to have set up or considered for proper, safe, and enjoyable rides! Great video, very informative, and full of great tech tips! I just picked up a 2004 RM 250 and want to build it for more Trail Riding, so this will be something I need to consider, is there a good resource for me to check out to make my RM more suitable for enduro riding?

compression piston and rebound piston on front and rear.... sure and standing next to a honda. WP rear sure i could buy that but like always Americans have a good way of talking a lot without realising what they put out there... Been doing suspension for a couple of years now and one thing is for sure some like to make it more complicated then it needs to be and some are just out for the money... shim-style based on shim thickness as well makes some difference for sure. same shim factor with thinner shims can often produce the feel the riders is looking for because that is what it comes down to! the feeling the rider gets from riding and what confidence it creates based on that feeling. spring rates are often overlooked as well.

Suspension is a force multiplier. Even if you're just a weekend warrior wannabe, it will allow you to have more fun across the board

I have a Yamaha WR 250 r worst rear shock I’ve ever ridden getting mine done by a local suspension guy who is very reasonable and the guy added a lowering link that has to go!

Instead of graphics I opted for a different spring rate to correct my sag. May not look as cool but Im hoping the performance benefit will be worth it.

@rmatvmc

Жыл бұрын

That is a very wise choice! - Chase

Got mine revolved with gold valves but didn’t change springs out. Now that I’m getting faster I feel it. Going to swap out springs as soon as UPS can get them here

@westonhowse3260

3 ай бұрын

How did you like the gold valves?

@06baty

3 ай бұрын

@@westonhowse3260 LOVE the gold valve kit. Best $800 I could spend on the bike

I cant tell you how many times I've come across guys who have popped for an expensive re-valve but could of probably avoided going that route had they invested a bit of time into learning the basic functions of their stock suspension. Springs, oil level, clicker position and sag..

$800 - $1000 at the high end for basic set-up work. How much is a trip to the E.R. & then follow-ups with your orthopedic specialist? What to look for in a suspension service shop? How many times will they REDO the initial set-up for no charge? Are they local at the tracks you ride so they can SEE what you can't yet SAY! NEW = Ride 8-10 hours for break in & send it out for springs & valving. USED = Send it out for springs, valving, seals & bushings. P.S. If you can beg a ride on a bike with an ""A"" kit on it, then all of the above doesn't have to be said!!!

Having a little bit of understanding as to WHY the rider sag/ride height is SOOOOOO important to everything else that is going to take place on the pile of metal, as in SETTING UP ALL THE CHASSIS ANGLES OF IMPACT so that the front & rear ends work in harmony rather than against each other & it is critical to how the front end hooks up while attempting to pivot said chassis. You noticed I DIDN'T SAY TURN THE CHASSIS because now that we have those great drone shots at the Nationals you can SEE & UNDERSTAND why they tell you to ride with your head over the steering stem as that is where the CHASSIS PIVOTS & with your head right there the rest of your BODY PIVOTS behind and below the neck & head so EVERYTHING IS PIVOTING ON THE SAME PLANE & AT THE SAME PIVOT POINT. Think of the drone camera shots and the riders head, face, shoulders & upper body, as well as the front wheel & handlebars of the motorcycle are ALWAYS POINTING/LOOKING STRAIGHT FORWARD & STRAIGHT AHEAD, meaning that all the TURNING is done with the rear wheel & throttle & the pivoting & set-up to initiate said TURN happens at the steering stem area. If you snow ski you will instantly understand what's up by thinking about what happens if you turn your shoulders away from the fall line of the hill. You now have un-equal pushing on one shoulder and you spin around and fall down. The PUSH is the force of gravity (the rear wheel on your bike) driving you down the slope, break at the waist & you are done, slide back too far on the seat and you can't make the bike go around the corner, period. Probably WAY TOO MUCH IMFO, OH WELL......................................MR

The Art of the revalving!! Patience 😅

I race A open hare scrambles on stock suspension. Finish top ten and top 5 overall pretty consistently against the AA pro class. Would getting my suspension tuned help me step up my game? 2019 KTM 450 xc-f. My spring weight is set up for my weight.

@rmatvmc

Жыл бұрын

The best thing I could say is an old Race Tech slogan "the best you know is the best you have". Sounds like you're a skilled rider and I think it would only help. But before you get it done, you would want to know "what" it is about your suspension you think could be better. Suspension techs can give you a better setup if they know what it is you're wanting to improve. - Chase

In motard rim we can put dirt tyer or not Or we should change the whole rim please tell me i

@opengchris18

Жыл бұрын

a normal mx dirt tire will not fit a wider motard wheel

great info. what's the relationship between spring rate and rebound damping? e.g., would installing heavier spring necessitate more rebound damping?

@rmatvmc

Жыл бұрын

That is correct, a heavier spring rate would need more damping (in theory), but how many springs rates would you have to go up or down to need that, I'm not sure. - Chase

@damytzeus

Жыл бұрын

@@rmatvmc thank you

Good information, Thanks

For used bikes, and you have to choose between valving and spring rates, will it make more of a difference to respring it for your weight and live with the valving as is until you know what needs to be tweaked? This makes sense to me because if your spring rates aren’t correct and you’re blowing through all of the stroke anyways valving isn’t going to matter much at that point, but would love to hear your guys’ opinions on this.

@jridenour31

Жыл бұрын

Do both at the same time. You can easily change springs at home but that alone isn't going to make it right and a used bike is going to need the suspension freshened anyway. Tell your suspension guy what you want and he'll take care of it.

@rmatvmc

Жыл бұрын

Yes, start with the correct spring rates, set sag, and try to go to a base setting with your clickers (owner's manual). Ride the bike for a while to see what you like and dislike about it and THEN I would go to s suspension company if you think it needs work. I'd also ask the person you're buying the bike from what their skill level is, type of riding, and weight. Also, if you buy a bike used, first thing I would do is just get new oil in the fork and shocks to make sure you're starting with a fresh set up. You can ask the owner, but if he's not sure or if the oil is more than 15-20 hours old, I'd get that done asap. New oil in your suspension makes a noticeable difference. - Chase

@busby905

9 ай бұрын

Ok so Im going to buy a new CRF 250R 2023 (every write -up says forks are way to stiff) So should I change to lighter springs (say from 4.8 to 4.6 I which I could do myself) ride it at least 5 hours, then if it still feels harsh and stiff send it away for softer valving? Im a 46 year old vet C class rider @@rmatvmc

@rmatvmc

9 ай бұрын

I would ride it stock and see how it feels first. It depends on your weight and skill. If you're in the correct weight range for the 4.8 springs, then it could just be the valving. We sell springs from Race Tech on our site and you simply just use the drop down to see what spring you need for you weight. I'm guessing that your spring rates are fine on that bike. Also, many times, riders thing that suspension is too stiff or feels harsh due to it being too soft, so that is also something else to think about. But ride it stock, see if you can get comfort with your clickers and if not, then think about swapping springs. - Chase

Would the stock valves be sufficient for a complete novice until they can actually start pushing the limits of the suspension? I picked up a RMZ450 and it's way to stiff for me, I know I need to respring for my weight, but I'm not sure if I should bother with valving until later on.

@flashpointbravo

Жыл бұрын

Respiring it for your weight and type of riding you do first and figure out valving after you’ve put a couple hundred hours through it. Your suspension is designed to work best when springs match weight and riding type. You won’t truly know how to revalve until you respring and put some time in.

@rmatvmc

Жыл бұрын

Yes, get the correct spring rates for you weight (Race Tech's site makes it easy to know) and ride the bike with the correct springs and make sure to set your sag! As a novice rider, you should be able to get a good setting with springs and using your clickers. After you get a lot of time on the bike and as you start to improve, then I would think about revalve if you're not happy with the bike. But focus hard on technique first so you know if it's the rider or the bike that needs improvement. You can have the best suspension in the world, but it won't do you any good without good technique. - Chase

Hey Chase, question no one seems to discuss: how do I know if I should re-spring? Now I’m aware of sprint charts and such but with the single spring conversion on the Austrian bikes it seems to be a lot more guess and check and less forgiveness picking the perfect rate. So if I’m full hard on compression but still find myself bottoming out too often, but the suspension feels good throughout the stroke, should I just simply try one setting stiffer spring rate?

@rmatvmc

8 ай бұрын

You have your clickers all the way in and it feels good?! Uh, you should probably get that re-valved. Valving has a lot to do with your bottoming resistance along with the correct spring rate. As far as your spring rate, I would contact Race Tech and find out what spring you would need. - Chase

@jcbenson01

8 ай бұрын

⁠​⁠@@rmatvmcit still bottoms out in areas it shouldn’t. Ie when jumping deep on landings and hard landings. Valving feels pretty close but needing more bottoming resistance and figured a stiffer spring might be just the ticket. There just doesn’t seem to be a lot of discussion of valving:spring rate correlation. Ultimately I need more bottoming resistance and to get my compression clicker to a more middle ground. Rebound I have plenty of range to increase/decrease effectively.

@rmatvmc

8 ай бұрын

Have you checked to see what spring rate you actually need? Go to Race Tech's site and enter your bike and what spring conversion it you have. The problem with going to a stiffer spring (if you don't need one) is that it will help with bottoming, but it can be too stiff everywhere else. Your valving is really what will help with your bottoming resistance. Have you tried adding more fork oil? Simply adding 10-20mm of fork oil to your outer tube can also help with bottoming. You also need to remember that it's okay for your forks to bottom out. Yes, it's not good if it happens all the time, but in certain situations i.e. a big G-out, and hard landings, you want to use all your travel in those situations. One way that I like to use is a O-ring or even a zip tie on the fork to see how low into the travel I'm going while riding. If I'm landing all the jumps correctly and braking hard coming down a hill, I like to have about 1inch of travel left that I didn't use which comes into play on those big hits. Take some oil with you next time you ride and add 10mm of oil at a time and see if that helps, but wouldn't go past 20mm. - Chase

@jcbenson01

8 ай бұрын

@@rmatvmcthanks for your replies and trying to help, Chase. Yeah, I’ve played around with the spring calculators and have a good idea of where I should be. I actually spoke with TJ yesterday (AWESOME GUY) and he was willing to chat a bit. I definitely have a better grasp of a few things after talking to him and I do think I’m gonna go ahead and bump my oil volumes a little and see what that does. I also ordered the tools to service and look forward to digging into them and learning more and seeing what spring is in there. That should definitely give me a better direction. Thanks again buddy. Love RMATV and these videos you guys have put out over the last few years have been awesome. Thanks so much.

I bought a 450 a couple years ago and I’ve been wanting to send my suspension out to get it done for my level and weight. The bike was used not sure the history on forks or spring changes or sets. But I’m a heavier guy weighing about 260 without gear. My question is should I set my sag first to figure out what rear spring I need or do I wait till suspension comes back not sure what to do first. Thanks

@rmatvmc

11 ай бұрын

Your suspension tech can do the re-valve without the correct spring rate on the shock and forks, but you won't want to ride it once the suspension is done without the correct spring rates. To answer your question, I would check your sag with the spring on it, even though it's most likely too soft, and then order the correct spring rate. We sell Race Tech shock and fork springs and make it very easy to know what spring you need using the drop down and selecting your weight range. You can also use Race Tech's website to know what springs you need as well. I would drop the bike off to have the suspension done with the correct springs too so that you don't have to pull it all off once it's done to put the new springs on - Chase

If your rebound is too soft and bounding off a big bump or if your bump is bouncing the tire off the ground.

Answer is Yes.

Is one of those track in the video OCA?

@rmatvmc

Жыл бұрын

We filmed this at OCA. - Chase

Definitely suspension first before engine work or even pipes.

@wee535

4 ай бұрын

Engine first. What good is suspension if the engine blows on your first ride. Trust me, I would know 😭

Yes… there i saved some time for you all.

"Don't want a bike down for days, or weeks"....me sitting here for a month waiting for the rubber oil tank elbow for a 300 tpi from CHINA because everything is sold out here. Smh

@traxxasrc10

Жыл бұрын

You’re telling me, currently rebuilding my engine and waiting for parts rn

@nickkress1076

Жыл бұрын

@@traxxasrc10 I feel your pain man. It's rough being bikeless.

“Race Ready” is a Husaberg slogan that ktm took over and started using after they bought the company and liquidized it

Get to the point u american allways over explain

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