Awesome

@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit

Жыл бұрын

Thank you very much, I appreciate the comment.

"LaTeX ... I think both the people who would like that would really appreciate it," lol. Okay, yes, we are a very, very, VERY small group. :) What you said about writing your dissertation on MiNT brought back memories. I didn't write a dissertation with it, but kind of close. I got into Mint in 1993. What I remember is the only way to get the kernel was as source code. So, I had to research how to compile it, and how to get the compiler set up. I had graduated from college, so the only access I had to the internet was through a free Unix service, run by volunteers on some really old hardware (a PDP-10 or 11) at a local university. Fortunately, they allowed the public to get accounts on it, and dial in on modems. The first intimidating task was setting up gcc as a cross-compiler, since I didn't have it on my STe. I ftp'ed the source for gcc to my Unix account, and compiled it using the Motorola 68K back end configuration. I ftp'ed the source for Mint to the account, and used the cross-compiler to compile the kernel. I transferred the binary over modem to my STe, got it set up per the instructions, rebooted, hoped for the best, and it worked! I probably got TOSWin from the same source as Mint. I'm not sure why I did it this way. I seem to recall there was a way to run gcc under TOS, but water under the bridge. I set up a Mint partition, and transferred the Mint-compatible GNU utilities, which were pre-compiled into I think a .tz file (Zoo was a common compression format on the ST), so that I could decompress, and un-tar the directory tree of utilities, and just start using them. What was really nice was after that, I was able to compile the kernel in Mint, so that when Eric Smith came out with new versions, I could just transfer the source to my STe, and compile it there. Though, doing that took all day! It was much faster on the PDP. The only significant thing I remember doing with Mint was reworking a compiler I'd written for my Compilers course, using gcc, flex, and bison, originally on Unix. It needed significant revision, since while going through the course, I realized I didn't know how to use bison that well, and got it (mostly) working by doing most things the hard way. Getting the compiler working on Mint was nice to see! I also used sed and awk to do some shell scripting, which was awesome! :) When I was in school, I found out about the Atari Archive at the University of Michigan (which still exists, btw). New Atari stuff was being added to it periodically. The digests of what was new were set up in a cumbersome way. You had to get multiple file listings to read what was new, where it was located, and what it was. I'd transfer these files to my STe, but wading through it manually was a chore. So, I devised a script in Mint that would filter, and nicely lay out the descriptions from these files, matched to what was new. It worked great. I eventually got to the point that I was doing more in Mint and TOS (since I'd gotten a command-line shell for it, as well) than I was in GEM. I seem to remember reading there was a way to just boot exclusively into a Mint shell, turning the GEM interface off, but I never got it to do that. Anyone know if there was a way to configure Mint for that? Just curious.

@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit

Жыл бұрын

This echo's so much of my experience, it's freaky. My path to MiNT was the same as yours, via source. I remember my first downloads were via a very curious route. I had to remote logon to a computer, that I think was at Oxford Uni (it was a JANET hub), ftp the files down to there, then use HCP to copy them to my main frame account. Then FTP them on to a PC to put them onto disk to take home. As for using Flex and Bison etc, my dissertation was on a tool to take large C code bases, preprocess, lexeme and traverse the code to produce reports on where variable and functions were both defined and used. So I used all of those tools. It was also very satisfying. I'm going to be doing prettification and desktoppy stuff for a couple of videos, but i will be doing a video dedicated to the command line tools. Who knows if that'll lead to a LaTeX video. Perhaps time to look at doing a channel vote

@chriswareham

Жыл бұрын

I'm another LaTeX lover (man, that sounds weird). My career started with document processing systems - military related data in SGML format. The definitive book on SGML, by a guy called Herwijnen, mentioned TeX and LaTeX a lot as they were ideal formats to transform SGML into for generating formatted documents. I still have both the Herwijnen book as well as Lamport's book on LaTeX on my bookshelf as they basically kick started my career as a professional programmer. A couple of years later the World Wide Web really took off, and thanks to my grounding in SGML it was a natural progression to writing large scale websites with dynamic content.

@mmille10

Жыл бұрын

@@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit - Our CS lab had a PC where I could ftp files to floppy, but I usually connected up by modem. I had this thing back then of trying to see if I could "make the small computer do what the big computers could do." While I was in school, I downloaded a C compiler for my Atari 8-bit, and ported all of my Data Structures assignments (originally in Pascal) to C on my Atari. I had to write my own heap manager, since the compiler didn't come with malloc() and free(). After I graduated, I ported a 3D wireframe graphics assignment from my Computer Graphics course to TOS (I didn't have X set up. So, I used Sozobon C and VDI). And I ported the compiler to Mint. Our original assignment was to write a compiler for a "lite" version of Pascal. Every time I saw the smaller, less powerful computer do what I could do on Unix, I was impressed. :) Along those lines, you may be interested in a demo I saw some years ago, where Georg Heeg demonstrated Smalltalk-80 running on an emulated Atari Mega ST, in monochrome. kzread.info/dash/bejne/kYmE25avpM3Rm6w.html It ran about 45% the speed of a Xerox Dorado, but I couldn't help getting excited seeing this. :) (Gee, so if 8 Mhz was 45%, then 17.8 Mhz would get it to about full Dorado speed). Had I known this was possible, gosh, I would've tried to get it on my Atari Mega STe (which could go up to 16 Mhz, 90%!). I learned Smalltalk in one of my upper-division courses, and fell in love with it. I just didn't know where to get it. ParcPlace Systems sold this ST version.

Thanks for making these videos about STs and their ilk. There's not nearly enough content like this so I'm anxiously awaiting more. I'd love to see a video on LaTeX. I used it back in the day, mainly on Sun workstations, and tried to get it to work on my ST under MiNT but never could get it quite right. I'd be interested to see it actually working.

@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit

Жыл бұрын

Who knows I might do MiNT. As I recollect there were a few moving parts but there were also LaTeX distros that you could use and Ghostwriter to preview the ouput and print it. Mind you with all the fonts that got built and cached on the disk, it might make my Hard drive image a little harder to put up on line :-)

I can remember getting MiNT running on my 1mb STE. Couldn't do much with such little RAM, but having two shell windows open and listing the contents of an archive in each window, at the same time was magic - if very slow! Later on I treated myself to a 060 Hades to give it the power it needed to run well. A fun time.

@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit

Жыл бұрын

Back then MiNT on a meg of memory was a thing. The later versions struggle with 4!

Heard so much about MiNT back in the day, but this is the first time I've seen it in action! I'm a big fan of LaTeX as well - a great document markup system that I still prefer to a supposedly WYSIWYG word processor.

@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit

Жыл бұрын

The MiNT idea has gained more traction than I thought, it's got from both to a few people :-)

I would actually love a LaTeX on MiNT video!

@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit

Жыл бұрын

If I've unlocked the ability to do a channel questionaire, I think i'll ask about interest. THough it be a few videos away

Many moons ago I had this running but never recently and not in Hatari! This is a great and informative video. Although being a technophobe I’m tempted to ask that you should sell preformated SD cards with your installation :) ;)

@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit

Жыл бұрын

I've updated the description of this video to contain a link to the hard drive image. There's also a video describing how to install and configure hatari to use the image. There are a couple of differences, but they're outlined on the page and also in this video. Have a go and let me know how you get on.

@AtariCrypt

Жыл бұрын

@@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit Ah right, nice!! Thx 👍🏻

Thank you for making these videos. Your videos have saved me so much time with my Atari emulation.

@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit

Жыл бұрын

Thank you. Glad you enjoy them.

This is brilliant! Especially the very last part about vsetmode was lifesaving! Thanks so much! Maybe a quick question: have you managed to fix somehow the veeeery long loading time after you changed the mode to 256 colors full VGA? I first thought maybe it's just the very first launch, setting things up or so. But it takes very long every time.

@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit

4 ай бұрын

unfortunately not, since it's just hatari i simply up the cpu speed!

@janromportl1216

4 ай бұрын

@@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit Meanwhile I figured out that most of the loading time is because of the background image. So when I deleted the background image, it was significantly faster.

@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit

4 ай бұрын

THanks for that i'll try changing the image to a correctly bitmap depthed one and see if that fixes it.

Re. the window widgets in MyAES - The "box within a box" icon seems like a "shrink to fit" feature? I noticed the smaller size wrapped nicely around the directory listing, leaving less white space.

@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit

Жыл бұрын

Yes. I have a feeling it's one of those features and use for a while and the use case for it will solidify in my mind. I do like MyAES, it looks great.

If I remember correctly the reason your fullscreen window doesn't go fullscreen is because of a setting in Teradesk, that allows you to set "border spacing" (or indent) per side. If you notice the spacing at the bottom is about the size of a scrollbar, which is also the default size the Taskbar app (yes, with a Start button et al). By the looks of it I would say the current defaults are set for running on ARAnyM with a "huge" screen rez, and so "fullscreen" is somewhat different from what you might use on a stock Falcon. The only reason I know this, is because I ask the previous Teradesk developer (Djordje) to allow top and bottom adjustments, not just left and right, because there are multiple ways to run MyAES that affect screen size queries, and the developer of MyAES (Olivier) had just done a release with the reduced menu bar option at the time. PS on the MyAES website, the Last screenshot is of a (now lost) version of an ARAnyM folder build of MiNT + usable cli bin + MyAES + 256 color Teradesk icons (as opposed to disk images) based on the original AFROS bootable CD filesystem structure that I was developing as a "patch".

@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit

Жыл бұрын

It still doesn't feel like the behaviour is for the task bar. But i can easily believe it might be. Your lost ARAynM build sounds like a reall shame. That's why I back my HD images up to github periodically (and to my NAS) but I guess that these options were not always available.

@paulwratt

Жыл бұрын

@@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit I lost my 1TB backup in 2012, with 350Gb of AtariST stuff, built just before GeoCities was killed off, and most of what I had from there was missed in alternate server mirrors ..

I'd be interested in the latex video as well. Why didn't you opt for Vanilla Mint?

@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit

Жыл бұрын

Interesting question about VanillaMint. I didn't go for Vanilla Mint because the purpose of these videos is to build up installations and to have fun when learning how they work at a pretty low level. As for LaTeX, we'll see. THere does appear to be some interest.

I have a Atari Stacy (4MB, 130MB HD, something like preferred inheritance) so, theoretically, MiNT should be installable as shown in the video?!

@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit

Жыл бұрын

Well congratulations on owning a STacy. That's amazing. The version of MiNT installed here wont boot. Terra Desk fails to start with only 4MB of memory. I know 'Only' is a horrible term for an ST user. Mind you I was boot ing the 68020 kernel not the 68000 one. I would more go for the system I installed here: kzread.info/dash/bejne/iYCtrZunmNHWpKQ.html That's NVDI, Geneva and NeoDesk

If it's not too much to ask, can you provide a download link of your HDD image with MiNT installed?

@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit

Жыл бұрын

Here's the link. Theres a video on how to set Hatari up to use it, though I have had to add some modified instructions as the original video was for my "ST from zero to hero series" www.overtakenbyevents.com/Atari-ST-HDD-Image-For-My-KZread-Series/

AVSERVER name: its not the raw 8 part of the 8.3 filename, (for Teradesk) its a copy of the name used by Thing (IIRC), and the "name" is an 8 character value used in a similar way as cookie names - if you look in the mint folder at the bottom of the config file (MINT.CNF ?) you will see 3 lines remarked out defining possible desktop replacements, 2 of which are using "DESKTOP " as the name. From a programming point of view, if you want to talk to the Master AVserver, you have to know its internal name - The AVserver is behind-the-scenes protocol that allows you to open an app based on the file you tried to open, and to do other similar maniplulations (edit, play, view, etc)

@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit

Жыл бұрын

Sorry for the dealy in replying. I've been a bussy little boy. Totally agree with all of you comments here. I shouldn't have made that mistake as I set up NeoDesk as an AV server a couple of videos ago. I don't know if DESKTOP came from Thing. I do know that the AVSERVER projocol came from the Geminii desktop and was originally used (at least in part) to allow Mupfel (CLI) and Venus (Desktop) to commumicate. One think I always regret is that Geminii exitex the game so early. I really loved that pairing.

@paulwratt

Жыл бұрын

@@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit I know the feeling, there was a whole ecosystem build up around Mupfel as a dev environment. The original "DESKTOP " AVserver is commented out in the MiNT or XaAES config (cant check, dont have it ATM), next to the TeraDesk setting - that name could have quite easily have been "TERADESK", but I think the original developer was making a free replacement for something they already had, hence the same name internally for the AVserver (easier testing, especially if there is a problem)