The Fantastic Four were a "ground breaking" hit because they were supposed to be superheroes who weren't perfect. They had their problems and personality clashes. Just as important, they were likeable characters; this especially was what made Ben Grimm as popular as he is. Especially in this modern-day era of superhero movies, a Fantastic Four movie would have to stand out from the rest of the pack by being a character-driven story as much as, or probably even more as, a superhero story.

@jamesremington8056

Жыл бұрын

Reed is more than flawed. he is the worst character in comics history.

@aurahoneydew9607

Жыл бұрын

That's not really that impressive. Since now that's a who genre with Rick and Morty, Jimmy Neutron, Gravity Falls, Star vs Evil, the Venture Bros, owl house and such

@ghidorah15

Жыл бұрын

@@jamesremington8056 No, he isn't.

@castironchaos

Жыл бұрын

It’s true that just about every comic book character since the Fantastic Four has followed in their footsteps, by introducing “character flaws" into every single comic of the past sixty years. That may be why it has been so difficult to adapt the Fantastic Four to other media, especially movies. They laid the groundwork, but other comics and stories have long since developed and become “better" books. John Byrne's run on the Fantastic Four was 40 years ago…good grief, I'm old…and essentially, what he did was re-write the classic Lee-and-Kirby stories from a 1980s perspective. Meanwhile, comic books evolved past the Fantastic Four. But the original FF remain in comic books, much the same way Superman still exists 85 years after his creation.

@juniorjames7076

Жыл бұрын

@@aurahoneydew9607 ....as well as Umbrella Academy. Ironically, the creators of those works were very likely influenced by the Fantastic Four.

Great analysis as always. I've argued for a while that Fantastic Four begs to be a TV show rather than a movie. You need that long form to develop the nuances that makes stories about families interesting, which is the core strength of Fantastic Four - it's a story about a family, as you note. The other core component is wild sci-fi. Family Doctor Who.

@bozodeathgod

Жыл бұрын

Citing Doctor Who is spot on. Key word with Fantastic Four is 'fantastic' they should come on strong with a pure WTF sort of close encounters of the 3rd kind sort of Wonder. Reed should keep the beard, it's a more modern science guy look. I'd pay close attention to Neil deGrasse Tyson, Brian cox (I think) guys like that michio kaku... confidence, charm, mind constantly engaged. Just show fantastic results and know that Reeed can explain how everything works, but it isn't going to help, just trust that the science is good.

@krisscanlon4051

Жыл бұрын

Agreed

@lonnease6415

Жыл бұрын

Great point about the advantages of doing it as a TV show. But of all Marvel properties, a Fantastic Four franchise, with their super powers and especially their exploration of other worlds, dimensions, and cosmic entities, really has the lure of big-budget CGI spectacle baked into it. Done right, it should be able to really pack theaters and anchor future Marvel phases for sure.

@WalterLiddy

Жыл бұрын

The thing is that today superhero movies are presumed to be franchises, so done as movies there's still lots of room for development and growth. At minimum the FF would likely spawn a trilogy if done even reasonably well (not counting appearances in other MCU films).

Another issue is that Reed's stretchy powers are the kind of thing that works in comics, but are more grotesque/bad looking in live action.

@immanuel7925

Жыл бұрын

Ehnn, Reed's ability to stretch has never been the trademark ability of the character. If anything it's his brains that make him distinct. I wouldn't mind if they swapped out his powers. But they did make him stretchy in Doc Strange and that was okay so it could work

@StruggleoftheOutsider

2 ай бұрын

​@@immanuel7925😑

Another thing is, The Fantastic Four aren't really traditional superheroes. They're more like explorers/adventurers. A story doesn't start with Reed Richards stopping a bank robbery. It starts with him open a portal to another realm which inadvertently unleashes an army of bug monsters lead by a super-powerful bug man. They're more like Rick & Morty.

Man, I almost cried watching this video. You have the best interpretations and insights that I ever listen to in the comics universe. Thank you sooooooo much and a great hug from a admire from Brazil.

@StrangeBrainParts

Жыл бұрын

Hug accepted! And thank you very much for watching.

The Incredibles is my Fantastic Four movie.

@gvanbooven

Жыл бұрын

You beat me to it! Totally agree. And its perfect evidence a superhero movie doesn't need an origin story to gain buy in and have the audience relate to the characters.

My guess is that Marvel will focus on Annihilus and the Negative Zone (likely spun out of Ant-Man 3) for their FF film while setting Doom up slowly, as you suggest. We shall see.

@WalterLiddy

Жыл бұрын

Very likely.

Dude, you are saying exactly what I've been telling my friends. The best first fantastic four movie is not an origin. You absolutely nailed what should be done. If marvel ever asks for a fantastic four writer, I'll send them you way lol

Doom needs his own movie where he is the protagonist. It should be as comics-accurate as possible. He attends college with Reed and Ben, his (perceived) rivalry with and contempt for Reed are established. His experiment blows up, he's expelled, and then he travels the world educating himself in a variety of disciplines. (During this section of the film, we get his backstory: Latveria, his mother, how he got to the US for college, etc.) He eventually ends up in a temple in Asia where he furthers his education, becomes the temple's master, and acquires his armor. Time passes (years) and suddenly Latveria is under attack by Doom and his technology. There a climatic battle which Doom wins and he claims the throne. The last scene shows all manner of Kirby-esque tech being installed in his castle, including a console filled with TV screens, all of which are attuned to newscasts, perhaps some of them reporting on Latveria's new monarch. Then on one screen, something catches his eye: a gigantic monster is breaking up through a city street while four people with fantastic abilities are battling the creature. Suddenly we see a close-up of the screen and one of those people, the one who stretches. Doom's eyes alight with the fires of hell and he smashes the screen with his armored fist. Fade to black. Cue the FF movie.

@jakeaaron

Жыл бұрын

I really like this idea.

@ashura9706

Жыл бұрын

I really like this idea, but I feel like the movie would flop.

Starting paying this channel since his way of making video essay is just so well informative and you are always finding new stuff.

Given that Marvel is big into the Multiverse, I think it would be fun to have the FF come from a parallel earth that is stuck in the early 60s, and allowing them to have the world views of that time. Sort of like the episode of Wandavision about the 50s/60s. The Kirby/Lee era is after all the most iconic version, its the damn thing that started the Marvel Age of Comics. Them coming to terms with modern society would be fun to see. There could be conflict in the group from that, but in the end they need to pull back together. They are a family after all. Maybe they shouldnt even start with Doom, and start with a campy villain like Moleman. Doom is a too important and complex character to rush.

Homecoming, The Batman. Theres strong examples of movies that don't need origin stories. But I think theres value in it. Personally I'd have it similar to incredible Hulk. A montage of footage and news stories about the famous astronaut family possibly dying in a freak accident shuttle explosion. 10 minutes max. And then just start the movie. Let us establish their personalities with how they are post accident and go from there. No waiting an hour to get to the good stuff

While I support making the MCU F4 film a non-origin, I still think their backstory should play role in the film, considering how it has key part in establishing how the four were already brave adventures before the accident (in some versions they go to space against the goverment orders), as well setting up in Reed's big character arc, his struggle to help and open up to his family, not wanting to make the same mistake due to the guilt he carries for what happened to them. One idea I had would be start the film with flashback, showing Reed and his family creating a portal to another dimension, which he calls the Negative Zone. Going against SWORD orders, Reed and his family would travel to another dimension, only to return with super powers, creating mystery behind what happened when they were in the Negative Zone (casual fans would probably just assume they were hit by cosmic rays). After title, the movies cuts some months later, with Fantastic Four now being famous adventurers who just now moved to New York. However, things start to change when monsters begin to appear in the city and the sky turns purple. This could lead to Reed discovering that something is bringing the Negative Zone and their dimension together, causing a Incursion (this scene could even have a cameo of Wong or Doctor Strange). In order to stop this, the four would have to travel again to Negative Zone and discover what's causing this Incursion before it destroy both dimensions. During the adventure there could be some flashbacks revealing what actually happened in their first travel: Reed and his family were able to go into the Negative Zone and spend days exploring the place (since time there moves differently than Earth). Eventually they end up finding Annihilus, a alien conquerer who tried to steal their ship in order to escape. Reed was able to stop him by destroying his main weapon, the cosmic rod, causing the cosmic storm that gave them their powers. Because one the rod's part end up on Earth, Annihilus could use his other half to pull both dimensions, allowing his army to invade and conquer the universe. That way the film would be epic sci-fy adventure with high stakes as well a personal story about family and how it can help people deal with traumas and fears, but also new take on the Fantastic Four backstory, showing how this family were already heroes at heart and the accident that, in Reed and Ben's eyes, ruined their lifes, it actually made them better.

Great video! Highly agree on skipping the FF's origin story for the next movies, general audiences need to get their appeal right away. If people love a franchise like The Incredibles then the FF have the same potential for mainstream success.

How to fix The Fantastic Four: Firstly, bet your sweet Aunt Petunia...

Excellent breakdown on the themes of the Fantastic Four but I think you missed one big problem with adapting the FF. All four of them have a power that's really difficult to do in Live Action, sure we've had invisible people on screen since the 30s but doing it in an action context makes it more difficult to express what the invisible person is doing. Likewise, sure we can do fire effects but having a man made of fire and flinging it around is going to be tricky to make feel weighty. The Thing is relatively straightforward in that we can do suits and make up, but in the comics he's almost always incredibly expressive both facially and in body language so it's not ideal to have a big bulky suit that can show maybe three faces and can't actually move the arms above the shoulder. Reed is possibly the worst of all, he's basically a cartoon half the time and exists entirely within the uncanny valley. I think the ideal medium for a Fantastic Four adaptation has to be a fully animated production that sidesteps all these problems and lets their more aesthetically unique villains exist relatively unaltered.

Rather than Dr Doom as the main villain, use the Mole man, giant fricking monsters, nuff said!

"Going Fourth". Well played good sir, well played.

As a kid I used to love origin stories - they're like the portal from real life to imagination. But the Fantastic Four origin isn't even that deep - it lasts maybe a couple pages, they get their powers instantly and decide to become superheroes like it's the natural decision. There's no reason for the old movies to make it last more than 20 minutes tops.

I’m no comics expert at all, but I always thought The Incredibles was a great template for a Fantastic Four movie

Ok I definitely enjoy the deep analysis and appreciate the writing and will occasionally just autoplay this channel like a podcast... but god damn the video editing is stunning around here. I like the incorporation of the movie clips with the clever way you usually do comic panels.

Great Stuff as always! Possibly of interest is a great pitch from 5 years ago In Bob We Trust-How To Fix The FF. His idea has some real juice. Thanks again for your awesome work!

Or, and here me out; have the entire movie be an epic sci-fi voyage film [a 'Fantastic Voy4ge', if you will], with the gang first venturing into interdimensional space, then experience body-horror due to the dimension's radiation mutating them, and must struggle to find a way out of the dimension they're trapped in before the changes become even worse. If there must be a villain, then use the Mole Man; a previous explorer on who's surviving research the F4 based their own fateful expedition, himself now deformed, but in control of a vast legion of gigantic monsters. And there you have it; a tense, thrilling sci-fi voyage, that is secretly also a superhero origin story

The Fantastic Four movie should be one part family comedy and one part 1950's Sci-fi B movie and you'll have the perfect MCU reboot.

I think the family aspect is core to the characters but as the FF is an older model why not base them from the 60’s, brought forward to today. That gives a reason for the family to stay together!

To be fair, superhero movies pre-Kevin Feige's MCU had a very low low bar. I approached the Tim Story FF films as fantasy/comedies, and I had a good time laughing my butt off in theaters with my friends. People forget how you couldn't get your hopes up with these movies. You fully expected characters to look, feel and act like NOTHING close to how they appeared in the books. I even had my qualms with Christopher Nolans Dark Knight. Wesley Snipes' Blade and Sam Raimi's Spiderman were flukes and I remember being shocked at how much I enjoyed the first Iron Man, but assumed it would be a one-off even with the Nick Fury post-credit. It was a different world. In 1997 you were grateful to have an erzatz, de-powered, C-level version of your favorite superhero.

Thanks!

another great video

If you think about it, the first issue pf The Fantastic Four dodged a lot of the mistakes the movies made. It started by introducing a villain who is *NOT* Doctor Doom, who caught the attetion of the fantastic four, who already have their powers under control, there's a brief flashback to their origins, and then they jump to stop the villain. Lee and Kirby were probably aware than the amount of time they had on a single magazine wasn't enough to developt four originis so they focused on the team's dynamic and personalities, and the moviemakers should probably do the same

I've always felt that The Incredibles was the best Fantastic Four movie out there. ;-)

If Doctor Doom shows up in the MCU i hope someone makes a quip about how he looks like Darth Vader or something then proceeds to get their ass kicked by Doctor Doom.

I feel at this point, i feel like the best possible option would be to have them originate from an alternate universe where it's still the 1960's. It would be like a team of Steve Rogers scenarios who all respond to the future differently. It would also make them act much more tightly as a family.

A part of me just wishes we start with Sue and Reed already married with kids. Yes, very incredibles but it works and humanising for the audience

I don't know why people say the first movie wasn't meant to be released. I remember renting The Puppet Masters and the trailer for the movie was on the tape, I was super excited for a movie that vanished.

3:13 brilliant editing

The Tim Story F4 movies were a guilty pleasure for me. They are alot of fun when it comes to the personality dynamics.The only thing i truly think is terrible is the handling of the villains and some cheap effects for its time. But personally (with exception of Jessica Alba) i think this is the perfectly cast live action Fantastic Four.

I had to pause because you calling Reed a potato made me lose my shit.

Bruce Greenwwod might have made a good Reed Richards but no he's 66. Somebody like him. Intelligent and decisive.

"How to fix the Fantastic Four on screen"? Gasoline and a match?

Well said, especially your analysis of what all the movie attempts have gotten wrong.

I freaking loved the 2005 FF movie, and the Silver Surfer follow up. Freaking Loved It. Loved it as a fan of the original comics (pre 1995). All main characters, Fantastic Four, Dr. Doom, Silver Surfer fit perfectly for me, I enjoyed both stories, thought the FX was done very well for 2005, and its one of the better Marvel movies, significantly better than most of the Phase Four onwards crap being delivered at the moment.

3 minites in & the pearls are clutched.

Focus on family. Simple as that. The FF are a family. They bicker and they fight and they snipe but at the end of the day they love each other and back each other up to the hilt no matter what. Keep that 60s retro futurist sense of unending curiosity, wonder and optimism and wrap it around a wholesome family and core and you can't go wrong.

Side note: In Avengers Endgame when they talk about needing to develop time travel and how there's only one man they can turn to, I got momentary goosebumps. I thought maybe Disney had acquired the right to use the FF and it would be the intro of Reed Richards (how perfect would that have been?). Cut to - the Baxter building headquarters of the FF. Instead they went with their go-to Tony Stark. A bit disappointing, as they've now established Stark as a genius at a level that really in Marvel Comics he isn't on. Stark is shockingly brilliant in the comics, but not Reed Richards brilliant.

I don't think it's hard to update the origin story. Just have the Fantastic Four established as seasoned astronauts, and when they gup up to the international space station on a routine mission, they get hit by cosmic rays. Then instead of battling Dr. Doom, just make them fight the Mole Man. It can't be too hard to give them an updated origin right?

That is interesting to state that they are a family of individual with their own needs that compromise for each other to make for a better future - especially when you think them going into space when it was a new thing, it is almost like they represent the American citizen/people going into space and it changed them forever when they came back.....

This is a really good video. My only issue, not only with the pitch, but also the MCU overall, has been the backfilling of weirdness on Earth. I think that's contributed to some of Phase Four's waning interest. Instead of just inserting these major events into the past, lean into why the early MCU was so grounded, i.e. the pop scientist of the 60's burned bright, but burned fast. The promised future of flying cars, the end of war, and solving global crises never came. Hank Pym and his Pym particles led to the loss of his wife. Howard Stark's technology helped win the war, but keeping his inventions out of the hands of bad actors proved a full-time job, and led to the founding of SHIELD. And finally, brilliant scientists Reed Richards pushed the envelope too far into the fringe; interdimensional travel or black hole/wormhole exploration; stole an experimental rocket and disappeared with his crew into the beyond. Something like that would tie them to the past, give them some distance from the terra-based MCU (something that greatly benefitted the Guardians of the Galaxy) and allow them to drop into the present day events. Kind of a Lost in Space vibe, maybe interacting with The Kree, Skrulls, and the OG Captain Marvel with a looming big bad like Annihilus or Galactus.

The cartoons depict them SO WELL!! The 2006 series is one of my favorite cartoons🤗 I wish it had more than one season 😭

Enjoyable video. I’ve often heard the “don’t start with an origin story” applied to a new Fantastic Four story before. Did you watch the documentary, Doomed!: The Untold Story of Roger Corman’s The Fantastic Four?

Very interesting video and suggested approach. Shout out to the legend Roger Corman, he tried. I think I agree to the foundation of your idea, what I'm not so sure of is the F4's connection to the MCU. If they are to be an established unit, in theory couldn't be in the present MCU right? It would have to be an alternative reality concept, like seeing Stretcho in DS: MoM?

Excellent analysis. Why not do a Dr. Doom movie and eventually tie it into a future FF movie. You could do a stand alone FF movie about their encounter with the Mole Man for example and with several FF movies build to an encounter with Dr. Doom.

Love the idea of them having different origins or at least accounts of what happened! Sort of like that Batman episode in a way..

The early 2000s movies weren't that bad tho, they had some dumb jokes yes, but the final product was enjoyable. Timing hurt them, after X Men and Spider Man they didn't get much of a spotlight

I have never had a desire to read the book other than the Heroes Reborn version, which had a great first issue. The book has had great stories but for some reason feels like too many goofy things are coming at you at times. I just think they should be Marvel's Jonny Quest or Lost in Space. When I did my Secret Crisis video, I approached it a bit like yours. They crash in Latveria AFTER journeying through space a few years. No origin story.

I think the big problem after 2 movie franchise flops would be to fix the view of the Fantastic Four for a second (third?) time in the eyes of the public

I think you indirectly summed up the problems I have with many of the X-Men movies, which probably earn a pass despite their failures for their iconic versions of Magneto, Wolverine, and Xavier.

With the AI restoration programs around nowadays I sincerely hope to get a 4K or HD upscaling of the Corman film sooner or later. Hopefully someone could get Joseph Culp involved in the effort and grant him the chance to ADR his dialogue in once and for all as he always intended. That film deserved better than it got, and everyone involved did too.

My pitch is to spin off of the Sentry origin, but have them also mindwiped alongside the Sentry.

Awesome analysis as always! It strikes me that one of the reasons FF adaptations frequently fall flat is a difficulty in trying to modernise what’s an essentially goofy and old fashioned premise to a modern audience. They often lose the central charm and energy of the FF as a consequence. I’d like to see a future take lean in to the inherent whimsy and and set it as a 1960s period piece. Make it visually Kirby-esque! On a superficial level, it would be a nostalgic, heavily stylised, quirky action adventure, but underneath could have some more meta-fictional subtexts. It could potentially explore themes such as the optimism in space travel and scientific advancement in the post war period, the failure of the nuclear family, how the FF’s unique family structure and individual identities position them as transgressive outsiders to the status-quo, and how this puts them at odds with their new found fame and media success. For the audience, it could offer us a chance to reflect on super hero tropes and how we relate to them, the joys and dangers of immersion in nostalgia, as well as how we appraise our own place in the post-modern society.

Really good advice in here.

Here's my pitch: No Powers! And pick a protagonist. The problem with the FF is that they are all supporting characters: stuffy scientist, oafish best friend, damsel-in-distress, whiny kid (this is why Doom works so well). Choose a point of view character (Ben would be my pick) and stick with it.

Also, the opening scene from "The Ice Storm".

Still holding out hope for my Bionic 6 movie.

Geez someone really needs to make you a script consultant on an FF script. You fucking nailed what the modern themes and interpretation needs to be.

Mole man movie that has mole man shunned underground and the fantastic four treated as media darlings could be a fun movie.

That first movie was a bootleg? Wow I rented it a local VHS rental place when I was a kid.

To be fair, maybe the new Fantastic Four movie would their origin story being mentioned several times, just like how they did with Spider-man.

Quick question, but who would you want to see in a Fantastic 4 movie/series/whatever?

Since this new fantastic four movie is set in the mcu, I would plant the seeds now have them pop up on the news on magazines, make them established already, but dont have doom be the big bad of the movie, he needs to be in it but i think only briefly, have reed study something like oh idk the multiverse next thing you know another reed from said other universe accidentally makes contact with our reed and boom incursion time

If it was up to me, I would start by doing a doctor doom origin movie, he's such an interesting character with a complex back story that he deserves his own movie. It would start when Victor was still a child and he and his mother along with their band of gypsies are being persecuted by the then ruler of Latveria. It would be implied that Victor is the illegitimate child of the ruler, maybe through rape. Victors mother users her magic to help them escape, which we learn later resulted in her selling her soul to a demon (Mephisto). years later we see a young victor in the rubble of Sokovia finding discarded stark/ultron tech and in his words "improving it". he makes a robot army for some criminal organisation in exchange for cash, which he uses to travel to america to go to university, where he meets a young non powered reed richards, who he becomes fast friends with. maybe both he and reed could have a romantic interest in sue storm, which leads to a friendly rivalry. we learn that victor is haunted by nightmares of his mother being trapped in "hell" and is determined to find a way to free her. we later learn these nightmares aren't from his mother at all, but from the demon trying to trich victor into opening a doorway. he creates a machine to open a gateway to hell, reed warns against it, but victor is too focused on his goal and too arrogant to listen, and ignores reed, maybe have a scene where victor catches reed fooling around (trying to fix) the device which leads to an argument. of course the device eventually explodes disfiguring victor, which he blames on reed, he also sees sue and reed together and in his arrogance and pain comes to the conclusion that reed planned this from the start so he could "steal" sue from him. during his time in america we could see numerous news reports or news papers reporting on the happenings of other marvel movies to establish when these events happened in the marvel timeline. maybe victor disappears during the"snap" only to reappear 5 yrs later and find reed and sue have been together for the last 5 years. victor flees back to Europe where he takes control of the robot army he had built for hydra or whoever, using a back door command he had programmed into them. he then forges his iconic mask and armour, and returns to latveria where he confronts and defeats his father, taking his birthright as ruler. the final shot would be the now armoured doom sitting on the throne with a room full of people bowing to him. post credit scene would be doom in a dark room filled with screens which illuminate him, the screens have a news story discussing an accident (space flight or swapped with something else) involving reed, sue, ben and johnny. this then could lead to a fantastic four movie, I would have a different villian than Doom, but doom would be in the background pulling the strings.

@CosmoShidan

Жыл бұрын

Whoa there friend, we should be calling Doom's people Romani, the G-word is an ethnic slur.

Best thing to do is to remember that the Fantastic Four are as much Challengers of the Unknown as they are superheroes. And that they ARE "Marvel's First Family." Don't do a movie focusing on Doctor Doom - Sony's screwed that up three times over (and the Corman version of Doom wasn't THAT good either). That Challengers aspect, along with the team AS a family is what makes the FF unique among their superhero brethren. And Hollywood can't do THAT?! Even if the MCU obfuscated this a little (and Wakanda Forever pretty much ruined any chance of Namor appearing in an FF movie), most of Marvel's alien species debuted in the Fantastic Four comic. And the FF has Doom's time machine. There is SO much potential, all of it wasted to date. You CAN make a decent FF film if you don't fall back on the clichés. The FF could be explorers and encounter the plot of the movie in the process. The FF could be an American Doctor Who. It CAN work! But, in the end, Hollywood lives and dies by its clichés, and that has pretty much been the history of the FF on film. So, we probably won't get the movie we NEED any time soon....

I think they should take the Batman 89 rote with the FF. Move the origin to the middle of the film and start the film with a fully developed team.

I wish we had the director’s cut of Fant4stic

if you want to cover the basic origin, have the movie start out with somebody giving a tour of the Baxter Building, with a video explaining the origin playing while the tour is going on. Sweet and hopefully simple.

@carabe197

Жыл бұрын

Other good ones could be that Johnny Storm sold a comic book company rights to publish "censored and child-friendly" versions of their adventures, so the opening of the movie could be pages of the comic shown on screen, read by kid or some other fan of FF. Later in the movie the other three note to Johnny that the comic is inaccurate, Johnny then says that lot of the "science stuff" would fly over peoples heads, so he simplified it and its inaccurate to make sure nobody can just read the comics and then mess with something dangerous they encountered. Or, the origin is told with various news broadcasts, photos and files during the opening and in the ending stinger we find out that its Dr. Doom who has been looking at the videos and news on Fantastic 4, studying their weaknesses, with Thanos like promise that he will be a great future threat. Then, in his own movie, Doom tells FF that he sponsored and hired 1/3 of their past villains, using them to find out everything about FF powers and limits.

I have no doubt that they will be introduced to the MCU in this way - as already established (probably in another multiverse reality that crosses over). However, as a screenwriter I disagree with much of your assessment. I think an origin story is not only possible, but desirable. I don't think you can separate the character and relationship issues of the FF without tying them to their origin - and to the development of Doom as a villain. At the core of the conflict between the FF and their principal villain, as well as a lot of the internal issues of the members, is the relationship between Richards and Doom (with the love-triangle element also being a factor). To understand the origin of the FF and to understand Doom as well, the audience should see how Victor's envy of Richards becomes an obsession that drives his malice. Doom is maybe the greatest comic book villain, and you can assume that in sequels etc. there would be much more development, but I think all the issues you mention about establishing the characters well can be overcome with a more efficient structuring of the plot. The event that endows the FF with powers should be connected with a project that Doom perceives as a subversion on Richards' part, along with the concurrent perception that he's stealing the affections of Sue Storm. This is pretty central in the comics and should be maintained. It also means Doom as the villain is unavoidable. I realize some semblance of this was attempted in the 2005 movie, but it was done extremely poorly (and you're right that they spend too much time establishing the accident, the development of powers, and that Doom is left a sham villain - who is also too easily overcome). The fact that something's been done poorly 3 times doesn't mean it can't be done well. As you point out yourself, the problem isn't with the source material. No reason it can't be done right.

you can do the F4's origin in the opening credits

@uncannydcmarvelous5732

Жыл бұрын

The Incredible Hulk (2008) style.

I agree with everything you said. Though, I would probably start with Doom. Established him as the ruler of soviet satellite nation with him as a failed scientific genius disfigured in an accident (before the movie). You could pretty much lift Wakanda. It didn't exist until it was needed too. And, like most MCU villains, make him right but more brutal about his method of fixing the problem. Have the Fantastic Four as the antagonists. Don't even try to cover their origin. This would be possible sense the Avengers are for all practical purposes non-existent at the moment. Have the F4 win but have the threat come to pass with devastating effect. End. You've dug holes pretty much all the Fantastic 4 members need to dig themselves out of in their first movie. t

I agree, except re the Eternals, it was pretty good.

Hell I'd have Doom in the first movie as a friend of wouldn't be till the third movie that I'd have him as the villain

I want to have the Maker in MCU

I’d love to see the mcu reed richards turn out to be the maker

Just like to note you had 2 different actors who played The Human Torch, both played 2 different characters in the Marvel MCU but neither of these Fantastic Four were set in the MCU.

I still wonder if the first F4 movie is best as a period piece set in the 60s and the results of that movie push them into the modern greater MCU. Time displacement and such. A fun element could be to have them be very progressive characters on the 60s and then have them catapulted into 2022 and where they are seen as quaint and old fashion. In the end you are right that F4 is about family but it’s a found family in many ways.

Ive always thought the perfect way to bring the FF to modern times would be to lean heavily into the traits that made them unique with the other marvel characters; and that is that they are a group, with no secret identities, that are usually beloved media darlings. Literally almost the opposite of every other marvel hero. And hear me out, but what would a hugely well known family thats beloved (or at least hugely popular in the public eye) by the media be nowadays? Probably something like the Kardashians. Reality TV is insanely popular in our world so why not explore that concept in the MCU? I think setting the FF up like "the real housewives" or a similar show would be a perfect setting to explore these characters. The show/or movie could be about the "first family" filming the "show" and dealing with super villians and personal drama under this lense or it could be full-on parady and the entire thing could be like "the kardashians" with talking heads and all the melodrama that comes with it. It would at least be a different take that I think would be the most logical way of interpretting and updating the inital concept of the FF.

Radical idea? Don't do an FF Movie as their intro. Have them appear in at least a few other movies as Advisors, Rescuers/Saviors, McGuffin Helpers, Tech Solution Providers, Friends/Relationships, News Clips, or whatever makes sense in the stories of the other movies. Show them as an anchoring background force of the universe that all of the other heroes interact with/rely on -- which is what they always were in the Comic Books. Basically do the opposite/reverse of what you might do to reintroduce the X-Men. And then someday make a really cool Space/Cosmic/Negative Zone [Quantum Realm? ]/Multiverse ADVENTURE movie with them that showcases their family dynamics, powers, and that without them our world would be doomed! Maybe also make Doctor Doom a cameo Villain or odd encounter in a couple other hero's movies. And then make the FF vs. Doctor Doom conflict Block Buster the *second* FF Movie.

None of the films are terrible and all have their merits but none quite get all of the pieces right, either.

I've never been interested in reading the FF based on my assumptions of how boring they look or rather how unappealing they have been made in other appeareances outside their title. I'm actually interested now from how you described the characters as it does make it more interesting than the surface level characterization I've read from guest appereances

@JTR_3

Жыл бұрын

try the Waid run with Wieringo, or if you still are into how old comics are written (mainly dialogue and exposition) the Kirby original is perfect.

@radiak55

Жыл бұрын

@@JTR_3 thanks for the recs, I do want to try first with Hickman as I'm more familiar with his writing, but many have said that the Kirby stuff is excellent

@JTR_3

Жыл бұрын

@@radiak55 yes Hickman's run is a total modern classic! I didn't recommend to start because there's more background needed for that run as a starter. But it's crazy good too! The Future Foundation is a perfect and clever addition to the family.

@erikwirfs-brock2432

Жыл бұрын

@@radiak55 Kirby stuff is probably the best stuff of the 60s, must read!

Nicely done, as always. I have to disagree with you though. I think the Alba, Fantastic Four movies were decent. They had a kernel of what could have been an good movie series. I also believe Julian McMahon with a better script could have been really memorable. Have a good evening.

Ben Grimm was the only good part of the 2004 film. Since the actor had read the comics before and NAILED the voice.

If a new F4 movie were to be made it could go straight into an adventure more easily than most other properties. Minute 1 has Sue yelling at Reed as they travel over to the Negative Zone "The only way we can make it without being scattered to atoms is if we reroute the Reality Cloaking Shields in our suits. We'll cross over safely but the moment we cross back home everyone will remember us immediately!" and that's that. They do a little tango with Annihilus and later on in the movie (or even in a sequel) we get in to what their existence means, or has meant, for Earth. Folks overthink this stuff.

"Updated for modern times" Is the last thing the Fantastic Four needs. The Incredibles already ate the lunch of F4, by doing what all "modern" (i.e. progressive) writers avoid and that is by creating a classic nuclear family with individual quirks and skills. There's plenty of comic material and a successful animated franchise already doing F4 correctly. Why would they ever need to change what has already been proven success?

I’m glad to not have any more origin stories from well established characters. MCU Spider-Man got that part right.

The way to fix this franchise. Is destroy any objections to ' comic accuracy!!' the thing must be cgi. Not a complete costume. Sue storm must look like the very best of the comic book esthetic.😛👍

The best comic book movie in years side stepped a direct origin story just fine because audiences are generally smart enough to imagine how Batman learned to fight good.

@elrandohorse

Жыл бұрын

Also Glenn Howerton for Reed

@Black-1790

Жыл бұрын

@@elrandohorse But, the ... implications...

I certainly agree that the upcoming FF film shouldn't be an origin story, but I don't think that making them "up to date" would help. I'd love to see a "fish out of water" FF who are seen active in the 60s but through a series of events are suddenly propelled into the present. Their very nuclear style of family against a modern world would make for an excellent study in contrastive cultures. That's something which was never really developed by Marvel with Captain America, who ended up cussing and being very 'modern' and it just took away the appeal of the character, and of the generation he represented. In any case, many thanks for this thought-provoking analysis.

@Lomaxxx53

Жыл бұрын

The "up to date" can work, i mean Spider-Man in his first MCU movie doesn't have an origin, he already is all that.

@squirrel9407

Жыл бұрын

@@Lomaxxx53 True, good point. I suppose the "Incredibles" movie was pretty much the FF homage we all wanted but gave little options left for an FF movie to work really well. Brad Bird doing the FF movie would be damn interesting....!!

@srstriker6420

Жыл бұрын

@@squirrel9407 well I have been asking for a rewrite to the fantastic four movies

but they've already made the perfect FF movie. it's called, "The Incredibles".

Will Smith as Mr.Fantastic , announcement coming In October 2023 .

Not sure why they decide to shit on the F.F. like they do.

Ideal family that never existed? WTF dude?

Fan4stic had tons of bad stuff from the start. As the laughable science fair. It felt like an SNL skit. Endless scenes in dark rooms where half-cooked exposition is vomited out don´t help either but that is mostly to be blamed on Fox. I would like to see a TrankCut, even if he fully let go, but this isn´t like with Snyder/Ayer where a fully in control of his craft auteur was messed with during and/or after shooting. The foundation is a mess (even if I like the first few years of the Ultimate FF). Still the best film of the 4. 4/10! Sigh. Even the solo cartoons don´t work. Sigh.