I just did this upgrade and this is my first impression. The speaker sounds amazing. I can feel the mid bass more and the vocals sounds fuller. Which I feel makes the imagine have a lot more presence. Next is just doing some measurements for technical curiosity purposes. I’ve always been a klipsch fan starting with the rf7 gen1. After experiencing what this crossover can do, I think klipsch can do better. Especially at the price of these rf7 iii.

@johnadams3116

Жыл бұрын

Any pics on your crossovers, how is the sound now, there is another break-in period from what I've been reading

@brentshock3787

Жыл бұрын

i’ve purchased Danny’s cross over for the RF7III and would love to see pics of the cross over layout.

@johnadams3116

Жыл бұрын

@@brentshock3787 are you doing these yourself?, I would have loved to but I haven't the time

@brentshock3787

Жыл бұрын

@@johnadams3116 I am, kit arrived today but it will be a few weeks before i can do the work. I solder very often with another hobby so no big deal there. I can take pics along the way. This is my 2nd set of RF7 IIIs, first set was replaced under warranty. SPL from a horn took a crap. Knowing what I do now, likely a cross over component. Shame of it is, the first pair sounded amazing, 2nd set sound like completely different speakers and sound like garbage and that god awful klipsch ear fatigue came with this 2nd pair.

@brentshock3787

Жыл бұрын

@@johnadams3116 meant to also say I’ve just upgraded my amp from a Parasound A23 to a Parasound JC5, the upgrade really highlights the speakers weakness.

I just love Danny's "disappointed and pissed off look" at the beginning 😍😍😍 his face totally gives away how badly Klipsch have designed and implemented the crossover 😂😂😂

I actually really love the sound of these speakers the way they are. God forbid I go against the grain but I have a dedicated room for these in a 2ch system and they are quite spectacular. They need to be out into the room, well away from walls to sound their best. When given a good amplifier with ample headroom to allow them to get up and dance they are capable of holographic imaging with serious SPL.. and still sound very good. I guess I'm not a real picky hifi enthusiast. I'm easily pleased. These speakers, in my room, are good enough to me that I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything. Happy listening, whatever your taste. 👌

@Maxime-ho9iv

Жыл бұрын

Nothing shown here would be improved by just placing the speakers away from the wall or giving them a « good amplifier ». Those measurements are horrible, pure and simple. You can like a speaker with a bit of an elevated high, or a small boost in the lows, or just a particular frequency response but this is not what is presented here. That’s a bit odd to say « oh yea I like those major deficiencies ».

@mndlessdrwer

Жыл бұрын

Nice that they work for your needs and preferences. I tend to find Klipsch tweeters to be ice picks to my ears, so I generally avoid being around them for very long when they're playing at any real volume. Maybe I've just not heard their stock configuration playing on a suitable amp for them.

@cruise2023

Жыл бұрын

At the end if you are happy with the sound , that is all that maters, good for you. The rest of us keep chasing our tails trying to find what you already have...enjoy.

@mndlessdrwer

Жыл бұрын

@@Carl-bd1rf I'll believe that. A colored amp, particularly one that slightly or even heavily rolls of the treble, could do wonders to improve the general listenability of Klipsch speakers. If you are a treble-head then it probably wouldn't be your thing, but if you're treble sensitive like I am, well then you're running a warm amp with a tube preamp before Klipsch speakers with their stereotypical tuning become listenable. But honestly, for a lot of people, that is part of the fun of the hobby: tinkering with your setup. With enough tinkering, I believe that there are very few speakers beyond redemption. Klipsch aren't even bad speakers, they just have a very specific tuning to their treble, so fixing that with your setup is entirely feasible. So once you resolve that minor problem with amp selection then you can certainly have a great listening experience. I also learned something recently which I find somewhat interesting: the more sensitive your speakers are, the more the coloration of your amp plays a role in how the speakers end up sounding. I learned this by demoing my KEF iQ90 with their claimed 91dB of sensitivity on the same amps I've heard powering the much less sensitive KEF R3. Their stock tuning is a bit different, but even so, the R3 didn't really change very much in sound signature while the iQ90 on a more V-shaped amp are essentially unlistenable. Put them on a much more neutral amp and they're amazing. The R3 still sound about the same. So, the more you know. And given that Klipsch are often even more sensitive than 91dB, you can bet that they're going to be revealing toward the tuning of your amp and source stack to an extreme degree.

@FOH3663

Жыл бұрын

Nice Pulling the loudspeakers way out into the room, well off the front wall... combined with a quality, robust, capable amplifier, is a platform for optimizing most any speaker's sound.

I love the thumbnail/teaser photo of this video! I'm glad there's someone else beside me that cannot stand how any Klipsch speaker I have heard over many, many years sounds.

It is good to know that there are those who can and share the information, it turns out that companies do not always do a good job for the product and it is good to have professionals like you to give us the opportunity to see that it is worthwhile and can be corrected and improved

Someone from Klipsch probably bought one of your upgrade kits and was impressed.

I'm glad you're back at making videos working with speakers

@hoth2112

Жыл бұрын

We've got several more to do ASAP, weve been swamped the last 3 months and are finally getting caught up and can start upgrades again. We got lots to come soon.

very impressed with your results and how you included a 2nd distance in your study.. it definately proves their serious mistakes.

I met Paul Klipsch when he spoke at our IEEE meeting when I was in college. He was entertaining and enthusiastic about what he was doing in audio. I can’t imagine he would be happy with the direction his company has been taken. The speakers Danny modified here are not inexpensive speakers. While I understand Klipsch not putting $900 in high quality crossover components in a $4,000/pair speaker, the crossover Danny designed could be implemented for considerably less and still achieve close to what Danny did. This is a really sad example of corporate incompetence more than greed.

@abboberg

Жыл бұрын

Of course, you are paying for Danny's excellent engineering. I couldn't do it for that price.

@mabehall7667

Жыл бұрын

@@abboberg I really don’t know how Danny prices his kits but I recently purchased a CSS kit and went with their $400 crossover upgrade. I checked the price of the components and it was about $400. Of course they then made a profit by not having to supply the base crossover. Just a note, I’m not a flat earth’er. I choose the upgrade to get the improved tolerance and therefore insure the speakers crossed over at the designed frequency. If I would have had access to the crossover design, and access to a good capacitor value tester, and access to a lot of $7 capacitors instead of the $60 Jensen Zs to test, then I would have gone with a cheaper solution. Lots of if’s there so I paid my $400 and the speakers sound fantastic. Aided no doubt by the Danny designed No-Res that I packed the speakers with.

@abboberg

Жыл бұрын

@@mabehall7667 The upgrade of my B&W CDM-1NTs was fantastic as well - I have two pair of them, so I was able to A-B compare, and the difference was remarkable. However, I spent over 60 hours building 4 large circuit boards from scratch, and had to layer them (just to squeeze them in there), using shouldered standoffs I made on my metal lathe - not your average DIY project. The whole project took me over 60 hours. I gave my non-upgraded pair to my son - if I ever needed to replace those speakers, I would just buy a pair of pro audio monitors where no games are played by cutting corners with crossovers. I just simply don't have any more time to throw at fixing other people's work. For some, tho, I can understand that it's a labor of love, and much less of a time commitment than building speakers from scratch (with an unknown outcome).

@mabehall7667

Жыл бұрын

@@abboberg Hey, I’m with you. Spent more time than I expected.

@justsumguy2u

Жыл бұрын

Disagree; I think Klipsch's newer offerings sound better than anything Paul Klipsch ever designed. The horns he used sounded like PA speakers---very nasal. I bought a pair of his floorstanders used at a thrift shop; they sounded so bad I gave them to a buddy

I did my RP600ms. There's a huge positive improvement in the top end. Far less smearing and attenuation of those mid to upper frequencies. Fun project. Very happy with the results.

@kosiekoos9408

Жыл бұрын

Those are expensive speakers u already spent a lot and now u spent more. Just buy a GR kit speaker one time

@Codeaholic1

Жыл бұрын

I already owned the speakers. I wasn't happy with the sound and I enjoyed the project. Sure there's cheaper ways to get better value. And?

@thenorfolkst

Жыл бұрын

@ Trey Dempsey . Haha less smearing 🤣🤣 . What measurement can I see this in ? Haha

@thenorfolkst

Жыл бұрын

@@Carl-bd1rf His tube connectors and truck load of no res he’s been trying to get rid of since his mullet was in style should fix all those print marks and tighten up the bass a little.

@thenorfolkst

Жыл бұрын

@@Carl-bd1rf . I built my speaker cabinets out of sand cast resistors just to piss this guy off . Try some tube connectors on your kitchen taps , musical spring fresh water , really brought them to life 👍

I'm glad you can put into words what I hear whenever I buy (and promptly return) Klipsch speakers, most recently the RP600m based on another youtubers positive review. Maybe I'll try these new 600m's...but I'm pretty pleased with my Polk R200's. I'd have to be really really convinced of something special to try a Klipsch again after all these years.

@DodgyBrothersEngineering

Жыл бұрын

Just stop buying Klipsch... If you are bouncing between Klipsch and Polk you obviously need to spend more time finding out what you really like. You would be flat out finding two more diametrically opposed speakers. Ear bleeding shrill to fat and bloated midrange. Have a listen to more brands to see what is out there. Took me ages to find my sound. Ignore reviews, let your ears decide what you like, then narrow your search from there.

@hoth2112

Жыл бұрын

The 600M-IIs are an improvement, but are still bright up top. Imo, they only sound "good" when listening 20+30° off-axis. Makes for a decent soundstage, but imagining suffere in the process. On axis they get fatiguing after a short while.

@DodgyBrothersEngineering

Жыл бұрын

@@hoth2112 there is no such thing as a good sounding Klipsch speaker, only a less worse one. Any time you get listening fatigue, that is you brain telling you it is in pain. Listening to it off axis is just masking a fundamental flaw in the speaker on the whole. There are so many good speakers on the market, there is no need to torture your ears listening to harsh Klipsch.

@user-xg6zz8qs3q

10 ай бұрын

You’re hurting yourself buying these budget speakers full price. Get them used and get them dirt cheap. They’re built to a price and spending more than $150 feels like being ripped off.

I’ll bet those speakers will sound damn good with the improved crossovers.

With that massive treble swell off of the 1kHz dip it's no wonder I find Klipsch speakers to be like ice picks to my ears. If you can make the larger Klipsch towers sound more neutral and tame in the trebles then you truly are a miracle worker. Their titanium or other metal alloy tweeters in their horn-loaded wave guide started me out loathing metal dome tweeters. It wasn't until I encountered my KEF iQ90 that I realized that metal dome tweeters could actually be pleasant to listen to. Maybe I'll see about getting those beauties upgraded at some point in the future when I can spare a couple hundred dollars to ship them 1000 miles away to have you guys look at them. They still sound plenty good as it is, so it's certainly not a rush for me to do anything.

I've been installing this kit. It's the second GR Kit that I've done. The amount of parts in the high circuit was crazy. I think it was 4 inductors, 4 resistors, and 3 capacitors. The inductor for the lower woofer is bigger than the whole factory crossover. And the no-rez really deadens the cabinet. I've almost got one back together, and I'm going to listen to the modded one and stock one together for awhile to AB them. I think the hardest part is trying to find all the room in the cabinet for the parts needed to fix the speakers. I'm not sure people understand that these inductors are wound OFC Copper, thus the reason for the cost people complain about, and the reason the manufacturers cut corners here. That's just how it is. I also read a recent article that about 1/3 of dudes alive today don't own a drill, so I'm sure even fewer own a soldering iron. Probably hardly anyone owns both, thus, they won't be doing this type of install.

That is quite an improvement.... Good job! I would still never buy a pair of Klipsch anything, I don't like horn tweeters, period. But if a pair of these were given to me I'd strongly consider the upgrade now seeing what they could become. Cheers 🍻

@thegoat164

Жыл бұрын

I would never buy a pair of Klipsch anything either! It blows my mind that people actually buy those ear bleeders.

@musicstevecom

Жыл бұрын

The RP line tweeter are way Softer and a lot better than the RF line

Wow! Great work!

Eagerly awaiting a Heresy 4 segment.

This speaker would have been an EXCELLENT example of the difference a good network makes. I can imagine if you have a speaker like this again, setting it up in your room there and recording a song before and after the upgrade. Then A/B compare them by switching live in the video. You could even make it blind by not telling us which is which.

@hoth2112

Жыл бұрын

It would be easier if we had both speakers in house, plus we would have to build out one of the crossovers as when we're designing them we're using cheap caps and alligator clips. But even then we'd be stuck playing them in Mono. It's not an ideal means of comparison. The videos Danny did on the RP 600M a couple years ago had an AB with stock vs upgraded.

Wow, you talking about time alignment just turned the light bulb on, I always find myself lowering my ears to where it sounds better, it's something I have suspected, you confirmed it. My Monitor Audio speakers included.

This is exactly the kind of upgrade I want to do to my KLF-30s. I've had them for 25ish years and have wanted to upgrade them for a long time. One 12" bass, One 12" mid-base, and tying in and balancing out the horns with the crossover and internal wire upgrade in a DIY kit. I'm not opposed to swapping mid-horn out for another speaker and replacing the tweeter for a titanium upgrade. If you had the kit I'd buy it, I know they're old, but still capable speakers. I'm using way more power than needed for these speakers. Mark Levinson No 26 amp, with a tweeked Nakamichi Ca-7 preamp.

Klipsch Reference series is more attuned for surround sound and watching movies vs listening to music . Klipsch high end speakers are more catered to music but they are ridiculously expensive . Most people buy the Reference and RP speakers as surround sound setups vs a 2 channel stereo set up .

@ekimandersom4478

Жыл бұрын

Thats still no excuse to use cheap components

Thanks for the video. I was looking to get some Klipsch floorstanding speakers. Really don't feel like pay that much for speakers I have "fix".

Question With the upgraded crossover now the acoustic center has been raised. This definitely helps when sitting in a normal chair but what about in a reclined theater chair. In that position now the acoustic center would be seem to be off axis to your ears. Question: When the original measurements were made I do not see the plinth riser. The plinth riser is to angle the original acoustic center more towards your ears. Maybe the design is geared exclusively to home theater. Thank You for all the time you spend helping enthusiasts.

You are shattering my illusion of Klipsch speakers being the gold standard. Thank you.

@DodgyBrothersEngineering

Жыл бұрын

LMAO. The gold standard in what? Ear bleeding crap. You couldn't pay me enough to own a set of Klipsch speakers. Heard some of their top of the range gear probably 30+ years ago and my opinion of them has not changed in the slightest over the years.

@DodgyBrothersEngineering

Жыл бұрын

@Analog Looney KEF are a pretty decent all rounder, they aren't the greatest, but unlike Klipsch they don't make me want to do a van Gogh and lob an ear off.

@DodgyBrothersEngineering

Жыл бұрын

@@Carl-bd1rf there is no getting away from the sound the metallic cones make. They are harsh. I am a treated paper cone person. Metallic cones will never sound nice to me regardless of what is driving them, unless we are talking subs, then that is a different kettle of fish. The Heritage don't appear to be using metallic drivers (still not fussed on horns).

@DodgyBrothersEngineering

Жыл бұрын

@@Carl-bd1rf metal in the tweeter is not as critical. Some of the top end tweeters use beryllium, which is ultra light, expensive and poisonous, my own ribbon tweeters use an super thin aluminum foil as the cone material. Where metal cones sound harsh and unnatural is in the mid and mid woofer area. Through the vocal range they are just plain harsh. The difference is night and day in the sound. Tap on the side of a cardboard box, and tap on the side of a large tin, they don't sound remotely similar. Someone could tap on the side of a cardboard box all day and it not be annoying, the tin would get annoying real quick because of the sharper high pitched noise it creates. This material sound transfers into the waves coming off the cone. Metal can play cleaner than a paper cone because it is stiffer (cone distortion wise), but can equally be more fatiguing to listen to.

@DodgyBrothersEngineering

Жыл бұрын

@@Carl-bd1rf I have heard some people say that they prefer soft dome over metallic tweeters, but you would have to have extremely high frequency sensitivity for it to be a concern. What is normally the cause of the listening fatigue (in the case of the tweeters) is a huge difference in the SPL curve between the highs and the lows. Just like Danny has demonstrated several times before with Klipsch speakers, they have some of the worst frequency response of speakers he has tested. If you have an overly bright top end and a big suck out in the vocal region, you can find yourself trying to turn it up trying to hear the voices, but are blasting your ears with highs, leading to listening fatigue (even if you can't hear them, your brain can sense it). Add on top of which Klipsch tend to favour horns on their tweeters, leading to an even louder distorted sound courtesy of the horn. Where the tweeter is crossed over will probably have more to do with listening fatigue than the tweeter cone material.

I listened to these in a store once, it was my first time hearing modern Klipsch, and boy howdy was I not impressed with these. Your measurements and explanation perfectly matches what I heard, as I was standing....

@TheRufrider1

Жыл бұрын

Me to

@qua7771

Жыл бұрын

Same here. They kind of hurt my ears. After listening to them in several shops, I avoided the brand completely.

Very nice work on this one. 2.5 way for the win!

Price point manufacturing, that’s the problem. You can’t afford to put the best parts in the crossover when you build it at a price point. It actually has a plus effect for the DIY group that addresses this. I am glad we have Danny to point out what the problems are and how he corrects them. Since there isn’t much chance of manufacturers changing their price point fixation, Danny will continue to do what he does and fix poor design and cabinet resonance issues. Glad he’s here to do so!

@ToneCabinet

Жыл бұрын

I can understand that on the RP-600's, but these beasts are over $4K/pair!! Surely they can afford a quality crossover at that price point. 🤔

@cruise2023

Жыл бұрын

@@ToneCabinet Absolutely, at this price point I would expect high quality parts in the crossover. BUT! if not seen, why bother, the consumer doesn't know the diff!

@markphilpot8734

Жыл бұрын

@@cruise2023, I know it sounds crazy, but the way the money is divided is rather awkward. The actual cost is 3 to four times less than retail. If the manufacturer doesn’t make a profit, the company loses, it’s employees get sent home and lots of people who depend on them lose also. The bulk of the cost is materials, labor and logistics in the actual working units. The components wouldn’t cost the company as much bought in bulk. Lots of other companies are struggling with supply chain issues from the people who supply them. It’s much like a concentric ball with many layers. It isn’t simple or easy.

@cruise2023

Жыл бұрын

@@markphilpot8734 Yes we all know about the costs of manufacturing, labor etc but to see $1 parts in the crossover of a $4,000 speaker is unacceptable, I'm sure with the little amount of parts seen in the crossover that the parts could of been better quality, bought in bulk as they would do anyway, no excuse.

@markphilpot8734

Жыл бұрын

@@cruise2023, you have got it right Alain. Getting the manufacturers to clue up will be a neat trick. It isn’t like they can’t, it’s more like they won’t as the profit margin rules. It isn’t the right way. That’s why we have Danny. I wouldn’t want to deprive Danny his living. Greed is what drives the industry unfortunately. I don’t like it any more than you.

Thanks Danny, I just placed an order for this kit. I have been hoping someone would send you this speaker to upgrade. I can speak for the fact that the vertical off axis has a huge audible hole. Every time I stand up, it sounds like something is covering the speakers. Also, I couldn't figure out why the tweeter fell off so much when I ran my sweeps now I know. I will inform you if I find a $1000 worth of improvement.

@musicstevecom

Жыл бұрын

I hope they work for you, let us know. I think your going to get a LOT of Better imaging and Dynamic range! I think its going to be night and Day Different

@KirkLazurus

Жыл бұрын

What is your feedback for this kit?

@schantzc

Жыл бұрын

@@KirkLazurus Well they do as described. The speakers now sound well either sitting or standing in the room and the speakers now crossover and aim correctly.

@brentshock3787

Жыл бұрын

@@schantzc thats it? Imagining ad a whole didnt improved?

@schantzc

Жыл бұрын

@@brentshock3787 I didn’t notice any changes. The RF7 iii images great in my system.

Hey Danny, can you measure at the distance that Klipsch recommends for this speaker? Curious to see if the Tweeter and Woofer sums better.

All Klipsch have done is put the same drivers in a bigger cabinet having not doing any measurements at all they are not alone in doing this!It is amazing what Richie manages to do expensive but worth it if anybody has a pair

@abboberg

Жыл бұрын

"Worth it" as in what money you've saved in not buying a better speaker versus how much time it takes to build and install custom circuit boards from scratch. I spent over 60 hours upgrading my B&W CDM-1NT speakers, and it made a very significant improvement in sound quality, but I could have saved that time by buying higher end speakers or studio monitors.

Excellent

I knew mine were off. To compensate I rotated the plinths around 180 degrees and cranked the spikes in the rear as high as they will go and removed the front ones so they are pointing straight at me plus they are toed in about 20 degrees each. Looks funny but works for me. My 300Bs make em sing. Had RF5s prior and Response 2s prior to those.

I wonder how good the crossovers are in the Klipshorns and their other high end speakers?

Just wondering if you've had your hands on the Klipsch Forte IV and what kind of upgrade was needed with them? thanks so much. Keep up the great work.

@dannyrichie9743

Жыл бұрын

Not yet.

good job 👍

Thanks danny..

Is that dip related to the mid band compensation on auddessey? If so, then is that not a bad idea to keep turned on?

Do you have upgrade kits for the klipsch RF-5 towers?

I want to see you make kits for Arendal speakers or Atlantic technology or other direct to consumer/specialist brands. I can’t stand getting bad quality for a lot of money

So is it essential that people use a measuring meter when they listen to music on the Klipsch loudspeakers or they won't pick up the dips in frequencies?

I ve had my RF7 iii for a few years and like how they sound in Movies and don't think they are harsh. In music though it's a totally different story. I can't listen to more than 2-3 songs at once, I get fatigue and have to turn it down or off. Would this be related to the stock crossover design? Can I expect improvement in that area with this upgrade? Or is this just how Klipsch speakers are naturally? Thanks

At last, we are Back in Business again with Speaker upgrades. And so long as there are Klipsch and B&W speakers around, Danny will be busy with the upgrades. Another silk purse from a Sow's ear... Thanks, Danny

@hoth2112

Жыл бұрын

We've still got 2 more Klipsch speakers in house, a B&W center channel Alon with some Magnepan 3.7i & .7s

@stephenyoud6125

Жыл бұрын

@@hoth2112 awesome. I cant wait. I bought better quality parts to revamp my wifes old Warfedale Laser60's and will do the same with 3 pairs of Linn Tukan's I'm using as Dolby Atmos wall mounted speakers. I learned a lot from Danny. And eagerly await more

Pretty awesome. I never liked the RF7iii. This would probably make them nice.

Have you ever worked on any of the Klipsch Heritage models?

@hoth2112

Жыл бұрын

Only the Forte III so far.

I have two pair of the 8060 fa first generation and those things pound concrete they sound absolutely phenomenal when it comes to listening to what I like to listen to which is 70s progressive rock from Alan Parsons all the way forward to yes.. I would truly enjoy Junior researches impression of the 8060 Fa for comparison please do so thank you

Have you ever got your hands on the old Klipch legend series from the late 90s particularly the KLF20s?

@hoth2112

Жыл бұрын

We haven't.

@dans550

Жыл бұрын

@@hoth2112 basically forte drivers in a tower, very awesome, considering Bob Crites titanium tweeter diaphragm and cap update, any thoughts would be welcome

So this new crossover will transform these 2 way speakers into a 2.5 or 3 way speakers ?

For the RF7 II should we use the same setup?

Any chance you might offer an upgrade for the Klipsch Cornwall IV?

@Corndog642

Жыл бұрын

Someone has to send or bring one to him.

I’m Not going to lie I’m interested in trying this. When I heard how much it costed I almost pooped my pants. This is so simple if you don’t like the klipsch sound don’t get klipsch. It’s going to be so much cheaper to buy a speaker with a far cheaper crossover than this improved one and most other speakers and to not buy a speaker and then want to rebuild its crossover, if you’re looking for that flat response and one that measures well klipsch might not be the first choice. I would very much like to have a better crossover while retaining that klipsch sound and if it takes anything away from it which I really hope it wouldn’t with the price. I don’t think I will ever try this product simply because of the cost, also it scares me it would change the sound of the speaker into something that isn’t klipsch, but mostly the cost is ridiculous, you could Buy a whole new set of speakers for basically 2000$. With all due respect that seems insane to me. You talked so much about how well these speakers measure with the “fixed” crossover but I don’t remember you saying they sounded any better, maybe you did and I don’t remember. I feel like your emphasis is so much on they measure so much better but not on if they actually would be more enjoyable and pleasing to the ear for the people who are buying this speaker which are klipsch lovers. For short. would like to hear a trusted die hard klipsch fans reaction to this Improved crossover how it changes the sound of the speaker for the better and does it change that voicing of klipsch speakers that live voicing and if it’s simply worth it to throw another 2g at a speaker that already costs over 4. I feel like Danny is robbing us here with all due respect. Still intrigued but man that price is intense.

@dannyrichie9743

Жыл бұрын

I am robbing you with this one huh? If Klipsch designed drivers that didn't need a lot of parts for correcting the response issues then it wouldn't cost so much. The parts are what they are and cost what they cost. You get the whole upgrade kit professionally designed with MUCH higher quality parts for exactly what the parts cost and zero fee (no cost) for all of the design work, and I am robbing you? Also, absolutely it changes the sound of the speaker. It allows you to hear the music cleanly and clearly as recorded rather than the mess it becomes when played though these speakers. Customer feedback on this one has been overwhelmingly good as well.

@daveycrockett5738

Жыл бұрын

@@dannyrichie9743 good to hear. What you said sounded dangerously close to you’re not making any profit off this. Is that what you’re saying, that what it costs you is what your charge is therefor you would not be making any money off it.

@daveycrockett5738

Жыл бұрын

@@dannyrichie9743 to me I hear the music very cleanly and clearly so you’re not really selling me there. I’d love to try it but I don’t think it’s worth it to me. do what you do man and I think I might of thought the price was more than it actually is, how much is it again? It’s cool you do what you do gives people more possibilities just some things like the way you say things annoy me I guess. Like you say it fixes it, to who’s standards. Your standards or John does standards might be completely different than someone else’s and what there ears like. Idk it’s just like you’re trying to focus on selling your product too much and not really being transparent with us and kinda one sided ig it seems to me. Maybe to people who aren’t as experienced in your field would watch you video and it would paint a much different picture to them then it should if you would stand on the fence than on one side or the other. Idk it’s hard to convey it into word but I tried my best. I don’t think you’re a bad guy you’re trying to run a business but you have to understand not everyone is a die hard experienced audiophile like you and that has your ears. To some people getting this crossover may degrade from the experience of the speaker as a whole in the form of them not liking the difference of sound rather or not you think it fixes it or not fixing the frequency response on paper, obviously that isn’t everything and how much of the picture it takes up is up for debate. everyone has different preferences and if you took more time to explain that maybe it would fix some things. Maybe it wouldn’t maybe to everyone that heard the rf7iiis with your new crossover they would like it who’s knows. Cheers. Do you do any of your products on a free trial, lol I would love to hear it.. I may be expecting a lil to much here feeling how I do but just my opinion like I said I do you but maybe my story did something..

@dannyrichie9743

Жыл бұрын

@@daveycrockett5738 Let me take this one first. We don't make a lot of margin on crossover parts. We buy in bulk as much as we can so that we can make some margin. It is usually 20 to 30%. Considering all of the time I have invested in the design work, I have to sell a dozen of these or so to break even. I do it because it helps people. It gets them into the DIY hobby, and even as a loss leader it is good advertising. The customer feedback is really the best advertising I could buy. Our forum on the Audio Circle is full of it.

@dannyrichie9743

Жыл бұрын

Secondly, let me dispel the notion that the improvement in performance is subjective or debatable. No one ever says they prefer the sound of having all of the detail smeared together rather then it being clear. No one ever decides they like the frequency response all jacked up and the tweeter level 4db louder then the woofers over a smooth and balanced sound. No one ever says they prefer when everything arrives out of phase and broken apart in the time domain over the sigal arriving in phase, coherent, and complete. No one ever says they like it when everything sounds flat and on the plane of the speakers or sound coming straight out of the speakers over a three dimensional and layered sound stage with separation and space around everything. Often (and to many of us) when we hear what speakers are capable of versus what we get from them when they are new then we do tend to think that they were broken from the factory. We realize they were built to a price point and not built to perform. For many people being able to fix them is a blessing.

Another successful x-over makeover and some lucky guy’s ears saved from mediocre sound quality. I bet that dip at 1000-1500Hz must have been pretty audible, plus a roughly 10dB variance in output across the entire frequency range.

did you have better luck with the 3,s as oppised to the 7ll?

Is this for all RF7's?

Did you ever do an upgrade on the elac uni-fi UF5 towers speakers

@dannyrichie9743

Жыл бұрын

We had the smaller model in last year, but it wasn't worth working on. There was no room left in the box for any quality parts.

I have a set of Paradigms Monitors 9’s…can do an upgrade?

I purchased a new pair of RF-7III and felt like all the negative elements Danny addressed were correct but after around 3-400 hrs. the speakers began to open up. The biggest improvement first noticed was the integration of the drivers was much better and the highs opened up. I use the speaker plinths that come with speakers many do not. Bass response is very powerful and has evened out alot. The GR upgrades would clearly be a large improvement but even without upgrades the speakers have good detail, uncompressed dynamic range with a good high power amplifier. I am using a Emotiva XPR-5. The speakers have very good dynamic range and I hear no edgy or compressed highs. As I stated earlier the highs have opened up. ( No not like my Magnapans but adequate and on bad recordings you can enjoy music) In terms of speakers I have magnapan 1.7i, Room 11.7x16.0x10.0. Placement : Spks. 6.1 apart Side wall. 18" BackWall 4'x7" Seat distance 9'.0 Heavy wall treatment side walls 4"x48" thick. Behind spks. 21" back 4"x48" panel.

@BlackHeart_YouTube_Channel

8 ай бұрын

Don't worry. This guy is trying hard.. guess he makes a lot of money with his kits..

Would you consider reviewing something in the Polk Audio Reserve series? Perhaps the R500, or R600, or R700, which all the youtube reviewers seem to be raving about. It would be interesting to see how their measured performance compares with their perceived pleasant sound. Thanks for your consideration.

@dannyrichie9743

Жыл бұрын

I am really not a reviewer. I just work on whatever customers send us for upgrades.

@JR-ho5qm

Жыл бұрын

@@dannyrichie9743 someone would need to send him the speakers. Those R700 look like beasts! Im considering getting them and if I do I would definitely get Danny’s help with the crossover’s. I have the R200 in my garage and I like them👍🏻🔈

@davep2945

Жыл бұрын

@@JR-ho5qm Why would you bother buying them expecting them to need a crossover change? Just buy what you enjoy. And the idea that they could be better with a crossover change doesn't fly as you have no idea what they sound like currently and for the money spent plus the new crossover you could have just purchased something you liked in the first place. Also, what if it's one of the speakers he doesn't think needs much done? Then you just wasted your money all around. Hell, just order one of his kits if you think he knows what's going to sound best for you.

@JR-ho5qm

Жыл бұрын

@@davep2945 almost any speaker you buy under 10000$ can benefit from having higher quality crossover parts. Even if it’s just higher quality parts of equal value without a network change. It’s no different than souping up a car, kinda fun to have something a bit better than it was intended to be.

@davep2945

Жыл бұрын

@@JR-ho5qm Hey, if you've got the scratch and that's your thing, go for it. But I am curious as to why more viewers don't just order his kits if they believe in his methods. I've found well designed kits to be a far better value both dollar wise and performance wise.

What program are you using to measure? Will Klipsch repair these under warranty? I have both the 600m ii and the RP-8000 ii

I don't care for the reference line much, but the Klipsch heritage line is great, the heresy and forte are very good. I'd like to see you do some vintage speaker upgrades and see what you think, original klh model 5? Hpm 100? Just a thought.

@dannyrichie9743

Жыл бұрын

I designed an upgrade for the Forte 3. We even did before and after listening comparisons. That speaker needed a lot of help.

@JukeboxAlley

Жыл бұрын

@@dannyrichie9743 interesting

@davep2945

Жыл бұрын

@@JukeboxAlley Amazing how thousands of satisfied buyers don't think it needs any help at all. But because one dude sends a pair in and they don't meet Dan's preferred specs suddenly all those folks are wrong. Nope, they just like what they like. No one is the all powerful arbiter of how a speaker should sound or measure. If you enjoy them then F what anyone else thinks. We're not talking about people receiving a counterfeit version of a life saving medicine that doesn't follow the definitive formula needed to make it work. We're talking about personal enjoyment and taste which is entirely subjective.

3:43 - Maybe that is what their design intended. People sitting on the floor watching movies or on a bed sleeping watching tv/movies 🤷🏽‍♂️

how would you compare the stock rp8000f ii to the stock rf7 iii? Noticed you talked about how Klipsch has cleaned up the response on their version 2's of their RP line. Does that better response make it better than the RF7 iii when talking about accuracy/overall sound quality?

@dannyrichie9743

Жыл бұрын

I don't know. I have not had the RP8000F ii in house yet.

@musicstevecom

Жыл бұрын

@@dannyrichie9743 The RP tweeter are better, so the top high end would be better and less parts But the lower end would need work just like all the RP-

@luciancalugaru8246

Жыл бұрын

I find the RP 8000Fs sound muffled when compared with RF7s. Again, that’s my feeling I could be wrong

Please review JBL HDI 3800

@hoth2112

Жыл бұрын

If someone wants to sends us one we'd be happy to.

I am from Toronto Canada i would like to order the up grade kit for the Klipssch RF7 lll. I am a plumber but i never did any thing like this before. Do you have any suggestions.Thanks Patrick

@dannyrichie9743

Жыл бұрын

Watch the older videos I did on the Klipsch RP600M. I shot five videos on that one and showed the upgrade from beginning to end. The process for this one is exactly the same.

I was seriously considering buying this model until now. I have zero skills or experience working on speakers so a video on how to do this would be very helpful to see if it is even something that I would feel comfortable trying. It seems that every speaker I am considering I then see it on here and move on.

@dannyrichie9743

Жыл бұрын

We do offer many of our models fully assembled as well.

@drewpknutz1410

Жыл бұрын

Remember that this guy is selling a product, not exactly unbiased..Odds are youd buy these speakers and be blown away, they are popular for a reason.. its been 3 months, what you get?

@chriss881000

Жыл бұрын

​@@drewpknutz1410 blown away? They cost 6700$ here, maybe half the price i would be happy to pay for them.

@yournightmare9999

Жыл бұрын

​@chriss881000 I pay 4500 with delivery for both tower and RC64 III a 1.1/2 year ago

Would these crossovers work on my R 820 F ?The cabinets are identical in size. Same size drivers and horn. Thanks

@dannyrichie9743

Жыл бұрын

They will if the drivers are exactly the same.

Wouldn't it make sense to use an iron-core inductor for the lower woofer? I've seen an article showing that distortion of the iron-core inductors on frequences less than 500 Hz is still pretty low (as I recall, less than 0.1%).

@paulb4661

Жыл бұрын

Makes sense, you are likely to obtain much lower DCR at a reasonable cost with a cored inductor and that's what really matters down low.

@hoth2112

Жыл бұрын

We did try that option as well, but it didn't sound right with the iron core inductor compared to the air core when designing the new network. The RF7-II & 8000F upgrade kits both used iron cores for the lower woofer.

@paulb4661

Жыл бұрын

@@hoth2112Sorry, you mean it didn't sound right to include an iron core inductor for marketing reasons, or it didn't sound right, because somehow its core hysteresis/signal distortion is audible, while that of output transformers of valve amplifiers you favour is not ? Increased losses and lower damping make for a more pronounced bass, if less accurate. In any case, driver distortion will trump that of iron core coil by quite a margin at LF. To put things into perspective, what's the DCR of that air core, more than R7 ?

@hoth2112

Жыл бұрын

@@paulb4661 Tonally speaking, it didn't sound right. I dont have a better description The iron core we were using was also a much higher value than the air core. If we wanted to swap to an iron core of the same value, we would need to have had them custom made for us as it's not a value we normally carry in iron cores.

I can understand building to price point with cheap components , but a to design a speaker that is so flawed blows my mind.🤯

I've never done anything like this before. I would really need a full walk through video before I considered spending that kind of money and potentially damaging these speakers. Would you be willing to make one? Or do you have one already with any other speakers that would give me a better idea if this is something I could take on myself?

Is there a how to video to these? I’ve had these for about a year and would like to take a stab and trying to do this myself

how far away do you take these measurements?

Will adding No-Res change the internal volume of the box?

@hoth2112

Жыл бұрын

No. The airspace taken up by the damping layer is offset by the 1" layer of foam that covers it. Plus you can also reinstall the original foam sheets over the norez, or use fiberglass/rockwool insulation or polyfill to further control standing waves and internal reflections.

@rehn1kri

Жыл бұрын

As Danny described it, yes technically it uses up some airspace, but the material used in the NoRez slows down and dampens the back waves inside the box so much that if anything it ‘acts’ like a larger enclosure in the end.

@paulb4661

Жыл бұрын

@@rehn1kri Technically speaking, it lowers the Q and somewhat f of panel resonances present, by increasing mass and dissipation due to friction. To do anything for Cab, fb and air column resonances, you go for fibreglass or similar fill and dissipate energy, especially at antinodes, where the velocity is at its maximum and sound pressure the opposite.

@musicstevecom

Жыл бұрын

A little bit, not enough to mean anything. But you will get a punching bass and drums w less bouncing of the woofer , A huge different.

So I was looking at getting these but not if I got to get it all changed. What speaker do you recommend that is great right from the dealer?

@chriss881000

Жыл бұрын

I looked at these rf7 for a long time. Listened to them at my local dealer and I was not spec impressed. Yes they have alot of bass but the mids are lacking, and they are known for it. If u have a dealer who has the new jbl hdi line, like the jbl hdi 3800, they are worth checking out, tripple 8's instead of 2x10 lkke the rf7, but they sound so much better overall and they got a great slam to

@jamiesmith8307

Жыл бұрын

@Crysis looking at martin logan xt f200 or paradigm founder 100f are my other 2 choices

@michaelwright1602

9 ай бұрын

Zu Dirty Weekend 6 Supremes or their Union 6 or Union 6 Supreme.

Will the sensitivity of the speakers get affected by this upgrade?

@michaelwright1602

9 ай бұрын

No

The initial measurement put up is not what one would hear seated, listening to these Klipsch speakers. The tweeter height is way above ear level when sitting in your listening chair on these speakers which is where the measured response got a lot smoother. Danny would know this & you can tell that his computer chair still doesn’t get him to tweeter height which is a lot higher than normal listening chairs. Although the speakers still need a lot of work :) just would like a fair review. Not a big Klipsch fan but do have these as surrounds. Nice result in the end Danny.

@dannyrichie9743

Жыл бұрын

The speaker is setting on a lift table behind me. It is about 10" off of the floor. Even if you do get your ear to near the mid woofer level, the overall room response is still all over the place.

@damonsbest

Жыл бұрын

@@dannyrichie9743 you are right, results were still not great. Albeit better than your first measurement. These speakers for unknown reasons were never meant to be listened to with tweeter at ear level. If I was using these as stereo speakers & really enjoyed them, I would ant this upgrade myself :) Happy listening.

can you make a video for b&w 801 matrix s3?

@dannyrichie9743

Жыл бұрын

I only work on whatever is sent in.

Plz take a look at the jbl hdi 3800 or 3600 if u ever get a chance to 🙂

@dannyrichie9743

Жыл бұрын

Send one in.

@chriss881000

Жыл бұрын

@@dannyrichie9743 i hope someone else does. I do not live in america, so that shipping would cost more than the speakers itself😅 but in general, are jbl using cheap crossover parts from what you have seen?

funny thing is i like the klipsch sound

That's what turned me off on the RP line so wanted them but had no warmth to the vocals. if they made it a 3 way would really help.

So basically if you own a pair of these and can't afford to fix the crossovers, go to the bookshelf and put some books under the speakers.

Klipsch are known for horn tweeters and BASS, are they still BASS Heavy

PLEASE PLEASE look at making a kit to upgrade/rebuild Dahlquist dq-10 speakers.

@dannyrichie9743

Жыл бұрын

Send one in.

@eazystreet5507

Жыл бұрын

@@dannyrichie9743 Thanks for your reply. Do you have a ballpark figure of how much it might cost. I'm on SS. Thanks again. PS a I will be using this with a Fisher 400 and a Marantz 2275.

@dannyrichie9743

Жыл бұрын

@@eazystreet5507 Oh man, I just realized which speaker that is. There is no fixing those. Those things have drivers all spread out all over a big baffle. There are comb filtering issues in every direction. That can't be fixed.

@eazystreet5507

Жыл бұрын

@@dannyrichie9743 Ok Thanks.

I've always believed that test measurments are highly overrated; some of the most engaging speakers I've ever heard had horrible specs. I'm a big fan of newer Klipsch bookshelf speakers--they sound bright, dynamic, energetic

@bobking7347

Жыл бұрын

Nope, they are scientific and fact-based performance metrics not based on feeling, but science and no bias.

@justsumguy2u

Жыл бұрын

@@bobking7347 Which means absolutely nothing. You cannot translate specs into what each listener will find pleasing to the ear---that's like telling someone "this speaker has great specs, so you have no choice but to like the way it sounds"

I have to wonder if crossovers like these are simply calculated with some type of software without any listening or testing to doublecheck the actual response. Seeing measured response charts makes me wonder how could a $4k speaker be released into the marketplace with glaring issues that are somewhat obvious. 🤷🏻‍♂️

@user-od9iz9cv1w

9 ай бұрын

If Danny is selling his xover at 900, it probably would cost Klipsh 500 in cost of goods sold. That would double their sale price. Best to buy the speakers used and add Danny's xover and have great speakers at less than retail.

For a 6000 dollar pair of speakers, you'd expect better parts. I would spend 6000 on these only to have to do an upgrade to them. I wonder what the upgraded 8000f doubt like in comparison to these upgraded? Are they close enough to not need to consider the rf7iii?

@luciancalugaru8246

Жыл бұрын

I have the same question

@chriss881000

Жыл бұрын

I went for the jbl 3800 instead of these. I rly wanted to like the rf7, they have a great 10" slam, but the sound overall is not worth it at ALL. The jbl's and the rf7 cost the same here (6700$) the rf7 mids is the worst part of the speaker.. most ppl who praises the rf7 or is typical americans , they get them very cheap on amazon for example, and most of them have never had some real speakers before, then ofc the rf7 gonna sound amazing.

Are this towers on a 3 way crossover design 🤔

@bmultimate1One

Жыл бұрын

I very much looking forward for the next generation RF7IV and hopefully they be a significant improvement over the current model .

@yournightmare9999

Жыл бұрын

@@bmultimate1One yeah maybe design from today's rp8000f II similar horn from edge to edge and finally maybe 3 way speakers with slightly better crossover

@bmultimate1One

Жыл бұрын

I'll get the Jubilee , the ultimate Klipsch ‼️

Does this tech ever play a before and after audio sample so we can hear what the difference is?

@abboberg

Жыл бұрын

There are some KZread channels dedicated to A-B comparisons, which in theory should tell you something, but even with my high end monitors, I can't really tell enough difference to make a buying decision. I did upgrade my B&W speakers with Danny's kit, but I doubt a mic'd comparison could reveal the richness of the sound in the upgraded speakers.

@hoth2112

Жыл бұрын

Most cases, we only get one speaker and all of the crossover designs are done externally using clips, which aren't ideal for sound quality. Danny has done A-B clips with the smaller RP600M, as that was a pair we built out and compared the stock to upgraded.

@davep2945

Жыл бұрын

He has said multiple times that he doesn't listen to the speakers at all. Just runs tests and adjusts to his preferred graph. Sometimes I would say the measurements are better and sometimes they aren't worth the effort but no matter the sound will only be changed. To you it may be better or it may not be. Plenty of people love the speakers Danny denigrates. And plenty of people think he's some sort of guru with this singular knowledge no one else possesses. Well, except for Andrew Jones because that's the only other speaker designer these folks know of. So they'll ignore the fact the Elac's budget to upper tier speakers use budget crossovers because, well, Andrew.

Holy Moley, they were selling this for $2200 with that kind of frequency response?? 🤨 And they had the audacity to call it their "Reference" series?? What were they thinking... yikes.

@abboberg

Жыл бұрын

"Reference" as in competitors "refer" to them as being inferior-sounding.

if they would have used cheap parts and your design it would not cost that much more in the first place!!!! its crap, they knew it and they dont care. nice work ntl

The front baffle fell forward on 1 of my bnib Klipsch RF 7 IIIs ! Came Right Off ! Woofers N All ! Still Attatched ! They Did Not Apply Enough Glue ! Funny Mass Produced in Hope ! TO MUCH !

Is this why I feel that my RF7 IIIs have no low end bass? I mean I am feeding them power from a Monolith 7X amp. Thankfully I have a subwoofer for movies but my music seems to be missing bass.

@yournightmare9999

Жыл бұрын

Set rf7 to 80hz and subwoofer to 120hz

@D1Calderon

Жыл бұрын

@@yournightmare9999 I have a separate set up for full range 2 Ch and 2.1 crossed over as suggested already. I just assumed 4 10in woofers would move more air. Maybe I have to really crank the volume to move the woofers.

@yournightmare9999

Жыл бұрын

@D1Calderon klipsch need 150-200 hours to make them sound way better. I have rp280f since when they released 2015 at beginning they sounded good but nothing special but today they way better. After few years they released RF7III and when I switched them RF7III sound like crap compared to my rp280f but today they sounds better. But overall I think I need way better amplifier like 450wpc to play them in full potential

Have you done any of the Klipsch Heritage speakers?

@hoth2112

Жыл бұрын

Only the Forte IIIs so far. And they needed a lot of help as well.

@hoth2112

Жыл бұрын

@Not My Fault, You Asked For It some people love the vintage look, but want them to sound better/ more balanced.

@hoth2112

Жыл бұрын

@Not My Fault, You Asked For It exactly, which is why they keep getting sent to us.

Klipsch owes you a consulting fee, Danny! 😃

Didn’t you hear about the new Klipsch audiophile beanbags? Lined with Kleenex, stitched with light elastic, acoustically transparent. The best listening position. Better than your upgrade.

So basically with the stock cross over, these speakers should sound better if you turn them upside down.

@hoth2112

Жыл бұрын

In some ways. But being on the axis of the upper woofer is probably the closest to a "sweet spot" that exists.

@TheRufrider1

Жыл бұрын

I have taking to tilting mine back about 7 degrees, sounds better bit I'd have preferred to spend more and have them right.

It's literally a night and day difference . It's just appalling to me that a flagship speaker like the RF7III measures so bad . It's just embarrassing and insulting . And just for the record , I like Klipsch . I sincerely hope they fix all the issues you identified with the next generation RF7IV .

I have the RF-7 I's and they desperately need to be a 2.5 way. I am shocked the III's still have crappy radioshack plastic binding posts. 2K a piece tower speaker and plastic binding post nuts should not be in the same sentence.

@hoth2112

Жыл бұрын

Their biggest center channels are also still 2-way speakers. The RC 64-III we have up next is an absolute mess, especially off axis. It desperately needs to be a 2.5 way speaker as well..

@raidendigital1003

Жыл бұрын

@@hoth2112 The center channel that went with the RF-7 I was a 2.5 way, which adds much insult to injury.

@hoth2112

Жыл бұрын

@@raidendigital1003 now that's a real shame...

@Starch1b2c3d4a

Жыл бұрын

Lol. U paid that much for these?

@raidendigital1003

Жыл бұрын

@@Starch1b2c3d4a Yes. I was young and stupid. I did not have a room big enough to use them properly, and still don't.

I'm sure Klipsch isn't the only manufacturer building to a price point, but they should be embarrassed by what they put out. On the other hand, if they developed it with your crossover, they'd probably lose much of their consumers. They need to find a happy medium. Anyway, nice job on the redesign!

@bernardchesneau3091

Жыл бұрын

So quality creates loss of customers, that says a lot about us people

@freone111

Жыл бұрын

I understand the building for a price point but these are $4400 a pair. Its not the budget stuff anymore.

@cablezilla

Жыл бұрын

Perception is reality. If a consumer feels they sound good, whether they compare or not, then the consumer is happy enough to buy the product. You don’t know what you got til you compare a product to another that is better or worse. It’s a matter of: education, taste, and budget.

@manchesterexplorer8519

Жыл бұрын

@@freone111 Pretty sure it wouldn't cost them much for better components . They'd order mass quantities at a discount for one . The difference may be around $100 to be honest .

@freone111

Жыл бұрын

@@manchesterexplorer8519 I agree. They just dont do it

Short cuts?

they are the top of the line speakers, how can klipsch cheap out like that?

Is the cost $950.00 each or for a pair.

@musicstevecom

Жыл бұрын

pair