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@DDann99

3 жыл бұрын

Hey Dm Lair, i belive your video helped me. I belive gave me a lot to reflect with, i started dming 2 years ago, i had a main group of 3 players, one of wich had played a game with a more experienced DM along with me, wich is our friend in mutual. Since i was a new dm, extroverted but also shy and with a little of anxiety i would just try to make a funny game for everyone, but this one player would constantly argu in his favor, try to in most ocasion's give a turn of event´s as he like (for ex: You see this queen who is asking our help? Lets kill her and take her kingdom) wich, since i was a new dm didnt handle as well as i should. For some time just ignoring this ideas and main plans since the rest of the group didnt agreed with him. With time i would try to talk to him but he would justify that he could do that since his caracter would and that, in a case like that, our mutual first dm, who wasnt playing, wouldnt do like that (a matt mercer kind of effect), and that would sting on me, i was trying to be a good dm and that, as I see, was a bully move to get what he wanted, even if wishing no harm. Since the othe players wouldnt intervin in his behavior or have my back when something like this would apperar, i wouldstart even more get annoyed with his behavior (he would metagame, forget about the game day making us wait for him for 40 min, be a murderhobo and even cheat on a "sneaky app" where he would keep rollin his virtual dice till a lot of bad rolls would follow so he could cheat the app to have more chances for a good number.). I started to present the problem of givin consequences in game for out of game things, wich i see now a day that was a toxic behavior generated for toxic behavior. A few days ago i had a conversation after session with some new dnd friends, compared to my fist group, and i once gain complained about this problem player, wich has become a bad habit, and one of the players, that has played since my first dm game, said that i would stay behind to punish him and for that he couldnt agree that much about the problem player behavior, wich nowadays i agree that wasnt the best. My point of this story is that in a game of dnd is up to improvement, but need's to have a chance of improvement, i belive i have improved, as i wich the problem player have, as well as the other players, who would not take notes, stay on their fones, and basicly complain about the problem player when they where the ones affected insted of saying something when it was against anyone. The harmony of the table is up to evryone and the dm is not the babysitter and not the only one responsible for the quality of the game.

@legendgames128

Жыл бұрын

I want to be a murderhobo where my character wants to be a good person but I force him into bad things. I accept all consequences.

I'm keeping "because that's what a dungeon master would do" in my belt, lol!

@Beth-cj7ip

3 жыл бұрын

Need to put this on a Thor "because that's what heroes do" meme

@theolddm

3 жыл бұрын

Luke needs to add that to his DM Lair shirt line. I would totally buy that one.

@Lakthul

3 жыл бұрын

Same lol

@collinsly6856

3 жыл бұрын

Used the line against one of my problem players, never have i seen someone FLY into a rage so fast about dnd.

@blazetheplaneswalker

3 жыл бұрын

me too

One of my players once came up with a line worse than "It's what my character would do." It was "It's what my character would do when he's this drunk."

@PedroAugusto-xp4tt

3 жыл бұрын

I know not if this man needs an award or not

@eclaire1748

3 жыл бұрын

Jail

@Veran42

2 жыл бұрын

I don't know if I should laugh or cry

@kyleward3914

2 жыл бұрын

@@Veran42 Why not both?

@shentino

2 жыл бұрын

IC actions, IC consequences.

"The odds of your DM seeing this video are pretty high." Well, considering I AM the DM.

This advice doesn’t just apply to RPG games. It’s a little funny, but I work as a grade school teacher, and after watching several of your videos, and similar videos like it, I’ve started to think of my classes in DND terms, with the teacher as a dungeon master and the students as players. I remember once being tempted to punish a student, who was flippantly trying to derail the class with the kinds of silly comments and questions that usually mean, “I’m bored and don’t want to be here.” I thought of just giving him a bad grade for the assignment, but stopped, reminding myself that his performance on the assignment wasn’t what was at issue, it was the disrespect towards the other students and myself who had come to “play the game.” I chose to take the student aside and address my concerns directly while giving him another chance to complete the assignment. I’m happy to say that, instead of creating an adversarial Dungeon Master verses Player dynamic, we were able to come to an understanding and now my “games” run much more smoothly than before.

@TredecimMusic

3 жыл бұрын

Man you gotta give a seminar on that philosophy :)

"That's what my character would do" *Watches party members murder player as a spy for the enemy*

Luck: The chance of your DM is watcing this is.....Verry high sorry Me the DM: what no I'm not getting ideas

@theDMLair

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah problem players everywhere AR trying to hide this video from there dungeon Master's.

@inappropriateperson6947

3 жыл бұрын

I liked this video the moment I heard that one. _You should too_ _I paused & scrolled right down here looking for this. Am I the only one_ ?

@TJTrickster

3 жыл бұрын

Hmmm, yes lady luck is hiding as Luke

"Who would argue over the definition of how to measure something?!" Wargamers

@Boom__6678

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, a lot of us do. Even me sometimes... I try to keep Madill to middle base distance for measuring unless the rules say otherwise

@adamkaris

3 жыл бұрын

Me, a guy: *nervous sweating*

@dongeonmaster8547

3 жыл бұрын

Shad of Shadiversity.

@SirToastyIII

3 жыл бұрын

No joke, the last edition of warhammer had to be errata’d because people practically DEMANDED a definition for the terms ‘within an inch’ and ‘wholly within’

@jasonreed7522

2 жыл бұрын

I mean there is a field of study called "metrology" which is literally the study of measuring things. Granted the goal is to ensure that we have standardized methods of measure for some rather insane accuracy and precision. Im sure they have "heated debates" on stuff but not for the purposes of what that player tried. DnD distance can be measured either as every tile border crossed = 5ft (basically the same as center to center) which isn't quite perfect for diagonal distances. Or you have a grid that is properly scaled to say 1in real world = 5ft game world and you can use a ruler to measure center to center if its perfectly in range. So the common 30ft range becomes 6in of gameboard in my example scale, probably most needed for flying enemies or otherwise targeting in 3 dimensions at once. The tile counting is usually the easiest for movement where as spells tend to get the true value with a ruler/tape measure.

"Becuase that's what the dungonmaster would do!" Good comeback, barbarian.

I used to have a rules lawyer in my group. But not like you defined it. He was an actual lawyer and knew all the rules really well. I often consulted with him on how unfamiliar game mechanics worked because he could tell me faster than I could look it up. He moved away and it was definitely a hit to the group.

I've found that the best way to deal with a player who acts against other PCs is to simply stop the game when it happens, and address the player being acted against. "Are you OK with this? Is this something you can find fun in?" If they are OK with it, I then ask the original player, "And are you OK with them doing similar things to your character?" The action is only allowed if both are in agreement that it's OK and that they can treat it as in-character shenanigans with no personal animosity. That way, it's 100% buy-in on the part of the victim(s). Some people can have a good time going back and forth with little swipes at each other, and some can't.

I see... so Fat Cat gets away with his cheating because your afraid of losing your friendship with the adorable little chonker.

I think my favorite thing you said was "I don't allow pvp" just completely removing the option seems like such a good way to improve the game.

@phoenixknight8837

3 жыл бұрын

There may be times when there is an in story explanation for why a character would do pvp e.g. to stop a character being controlled by another entity.

@theDMLair

3 жыл бұрын

I'm going to tell you I removed PVP for my games years ago and it is awesome. There has never been a time where we were like oh we miss PVP. But when PVP was allowed there were many times when we were like this sucks why is X person screwing over y person.

@SladeByReality

3 жыл бұрын

@@theDMLair I had a pvp incident at the beginning of a campaign I played in and honestly it ruined the entire campaign. Without that moment (a player tried to kill me after two unlucky wild magic rolls) there would have never been tension at the table.

@SladeByReality

3 жыл бұрын

@@phoenixknight8837 I think that would be a clear exception that you could make very clear doesn't count as pvp.

@fredbloggs7131

3 жыл бұрын

In the game I've just started I've told the players no PVP unless it's preplanned and important to the story, sometimes it can be dramatic but all parties need to be down with it.

I love the reply to the rogue's why would you do that in the start skit

@Beth-cj7ip

3 жыл бұрын

That's The way to do it 🤣

@samuellove9619

3 жыл бұрын

Barbarian was on point "cos that's what the dungeon master would do"

I love you mentioning the no homebrew rule and limiting some races. It's exhausting dealing with the bizzare garbage people have made online or is on D&D beyond and my players claiming "it's fine."

"Cheating can also be leaving stuff out of your spell or ability." Me with my terrible memory messing half of my abilities' notes : Heavy sweating. EDIT : I do take notes and try my best to keep track of spells, so it's more of a joke here. I promise i never messed with my abilities on purpose !

@remixtheidiot5771

3 жыл бұрын

ThePikel I have a player who just REALLY hates taking notes in general. This is to their benefit sometimes, but also not. Says he just memorizes them because he has good memory, at one point I the GM volunteered to track his stuff for him instead but eventually gave up as I was already juggling enough as is. An example of forgetting something to his benefit is forgetting the amount of HP he has or the debuffs afflicting him. An example that is to his disbenefit is forgetting that he is already back to full health, that he should have had advantage or other because of a buff, the enemy had a debuff, etc. And don't get me started on his abilities and spells!

@sillyjellyfish2421

3 жыл бұрын

@@remixtheidiot5771 which is why i love d&d beyond and roll20 character sheets since they have an option of tracking all of that by simply clicking things up and down. No more "i will remember that, my paper is already ruined from being errased too many times"

@Beth-cj7ip

3 жыл бұрын

I ask my players to try to know where to find the details of their abilities. Also, you can tell if someone is honestly forgetful or is conveniently leaving things out

@Albertosn3

3 жыл бұрын

If that is an issue I suggest you do what Yugioh does and announce what your spells/abilities do as you use them "I activate Pot of Greed which allows me to draw 2 new cards from my deck!"

@RandomGuyCDN

3 жыл бұрын

@@remixtheidiot5771 player doesnt sant to put effort in to the game then speak to thrm about if. If they dont change then they seem like theyd be a hinderance to the campaign. You put in lots of time to DM and that person seems to be wasting peoples time by not even putting in a reasonable amt of effort

Solution for a problem player: Stabby Stabby

@ruenvedder5921

3 жыл бұрын

Love your work!

@nickdahl203

3 жыл бұрын

His character, or the player himself?

@moustacheboy9918

3 жыл бұрын

@@nickdahl203 duh, both.

@donnieenfield8280

3 жыл бұрын

@@nickdahl203 that's what I was going to ask lol

@peepeepoopoo7724

3 жыл бұрын

Hey it worked, the player can’t show up to any more session l!

Another tip for the SBIR talk- use "and," not "but." "I appreciate your enthusiasm And I want to be sure other players get a chance in the spotlight"

I actually really like the DM Lair’s style of DM’ing and his modules because it just goes to show that you don’t need an extremely detailed setting to have a fun campaign.

"Who would argue over the definition of how to measure something?" I don't what you mean Luke? (Laughs in Warhammer)

@theDMLair

3 жыл бұрын

LOL. I've never played Warhammer but I'm imagining this is a thing huh?

@josephdellavecchia7828

3 жыл бұрын

@@theDMLair There was a huge argument at my FLGS about what about the phrase "more than 9 inches away" that lasted for weeks. Some people bought an entire army because they wanted to abuse this rule. Then they sold that army when the FAQ came out and they couldn't be asshats about it anymore.

@SirToastyIII

3 жыл бұрын

The first FAQ for 8th edition had to define the terms ‘within and inch’ and ‘wholly within’...

I've always loved turning around the "that's what my character would do." excuse to bite the Player in the butt. After repeated infractions, I took the other Players aside and asked them "If this were real, what would your PC do in response?" and the Players told me. I said "Ok, next time, do that." They said "Really?!" I said "Sure. Why not? Don't feel like you, as a Player, should have to put up with bad behavior In Game to keep the peace at the table. isn't worried and you shouldn't have to either." Next game stole from the party and got caught. Paladin "apprehended" them (read knocked them out and had them thrown in jail with the other party members as witness). When problem Player threw a fit, Paladin said "What? It's what she would do." I told them to roll a new PC because that one would be in jail for 1 month, problem player mysteriously rage quit and we had peaceful game play ever after. Sometimes it just takes giving the other Players permission to stand up for themselves. 😜👍

"Because this is what the dungeon master would do"

@samuellove9619

3 жыл бұрын

Best line

@inappropriateperson6947

3 жыл бұрын

Trademark that line.

when confronting someone never say "YOU" did so and so, always explain the situation from yours or the others perspective. the other players were pissed because ** they were left to battle the monster alone and they needed you etc etc people arnt bad players on purpose. everyone wants to be accepted but also doesnt want to be wrong.

@MonkeyJedi99

3 жыл бұрын

There are tiny percentage of players who are bad players on purpose. Those few are usually doing so out of a personal conflict with one or more others at the table. Way back in the 1990's I had one of those. He got a few months off from being included in gaming, came back a better player.

I think you have some excellent points here. I think the balance exists in remembering that usually, we are playing with friends, and we can appeal to that, too. And your point about friendships that can't handle being confronted not being good friendships makes sense to me. Great video, sir!

For my problem player that would attack/steal from NPC's, just do anything to derail the story, I created a "prison crystal" in which if you cause to much of a problem you get trapped in a crystal the size of a golf ball that a guard captain would have. Can't move or cast magic, if the Crystal breaks, you die. It was basically a magical jail with no save.

@jasonreed7522

2 жыл бұрын

I would definitely show it off as part of the world before using it on said problem player. Make a cutscene where they see a theif steal from an NPC and a town guard catches them with it as a sort of super handcuffs / pokeball with no save. This way they have fair warning that such a thing exists and maybe they should stop committing murder-robberies or they will definitely be captured accordingly. This helps avoid the problem of punishment ingame instead of talking to them as a mature adult because it refocuses it as "actions have consequences and you know the town guard can easily capture you". As a bonus the party may even aquire one of the time-out crystals as a reward for prolonged good behavior.

I appreciate the solutions part of the problem players that can arise. Definitely helps so you know what actions to take early on rather than ignoring the problem. The problems help me, as a new dm, to know what to watch out for

You seem to have found an elegant solution for the "Mr. Limelight" problem: just be all the players in your campaign. You always get to be in the limelight, no matter what character is taking actions!

Great video, definitely needed this one. Got a player that makes everything dark, as he thinks the world is dark, and can’t separate what he knows from what his character would know. It’s so hard to play with him. The the easiest/simplest way to explain without typing an essay haha

"Cause that's what the Dungeon Master would do." That line made me chuckle.

One good way I tamp down my own minmaxing tendencies is I always try to put my minmaxing through a character lens; "WHY would this druid take a level in barbarian", make a story out of it, make a lore reason to justify it. If I can't then I will save it for a different game/character. It really helps also to build with a specific thing in mind too. "I'm going to make a face" ok so I'm gonna minmax conversational skills but I'll leave my strength in the dust. Rather than minmax a whole character and try to cover every angle I make them really good at what they were designed for but at a loss for other areas.

This is actually a very understanding video, this channel is pretty rad.

@theDMLair

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you! :-)

In regards to the "cheater" that leaves out or misrepresents powers. I've found that some players have used an ability incorrectly for the longest time and never realized it. Then when someone shows them their mistake they can become incredulous since it conflicts with how they and likely past DMs have done it.

Some call it cheating, I call it having a sieve for a brain. I kept forgetting Cure Wounds was touch so I occasionally used it to heal someone from a distance in the heat of the moment. Then again... Most instances of me doing that I was the DM, so...

@dongeonmaster8547

3 жыл бұрын

The shortest pencil is better than the longest memory. I encourage players to make index cards with their spells or feats on them or at least to make a pg. reference for them on their character sheets so we can have quick access to the descriptions if needed. Of course as the DM the rules are what you say they are, as long as they're consistent.

Great advice, I have been a DM for 45 years, this is all good stuff. Best of Luck.

Here is a solution for Min-Maxing- Setup a separate “mini-campaign” where every week, the players bring level 20 characters, often including the DM, any character builds within the WOTC sourcebooks (or even just the PHB, you’re choice), and have a bit of a friendly PvP tournament. If you are truly worried about overpowered characters even for something like this, you can roll for character races and classes to add some extra fun.

Had a player back in 1st Edition try to insist that Treasure Type U, “1 of each magic excluding potions & scrolls” was literally, “one of EVERY magic item”. He then processed (between gaming sessions) to add up the EXP for every item in the DMG and calculated his “new level”

I recently started a tabletop club at my school. I have 2 problem players and the entire group is a little loud and doesn't quite listen. This video is so helpful. Thank you.

I don't know if everybody noticed. But this ist not only GM, but general life advice.

See. The thing is this: we had a player do that “it’s what my character would do” once. The others players characters did what they would do if someone they trusted screwed them without reason, we killed them and looted the body. Never had a player do that since.... No DM intervention required! So what do you do when the dm nerfs base class abilities because they don’t think that’s fair. Case and point: our current DM doesn’t allow the rouge to sneak attack a flanked opponent. I’m tempted to go the LARP route and demonstrate the logic using padded weapons.

@DetectiveBarricade

3 жыл бұрын

But the sneak attack is the rogue's means of keeping up with the likes of the fighter, barbarian, and paladin's damage output. It'd be like denying the paladin his divine smites. You could try asking them to try it for a combat-filled session or two to see if it's really as unfair as they fear. Do they let the rogue sneak attack in other situations that feature describes?

@Isheian

3 жыл бұрын

@@DetectiveBarricade Haven’t had a session with combat that would have those opportunities. And I agree, hence the padded weapons to highlight why his reasoning is flawed. That being that just having two opponents opposite you isn’t enough to distract your attention and allow a “sneak attack”.

@NoActuallyGo-KCUF-Yourself

2 жыл бұрын

It depends on if you are talking about 3rd ed. flanking or 5th ed. flanking and if facing is being used.

One of the main problems is that the source books tell you to kill players . Like there is a quote in tash’s “talk to your players if not there is allways cloudkill”

@DetectiveBarricade

3 жыл бұрын

That's supposed to be a snarky joke on Tasha's part.

Hey Luke, I've been Dm'ing for almost a decade now and i've been watching your videos for tips story ideas and mostly the advice. Here's one from my DM. Before we even began playing, he showed us the "Rules". Rule #1 was don't split the party. This was duie to all of the encounters he had created were built for the party's overall level, including the NUMBER of enemies. He explained it this way: if you go OFP (Own F-ing Program - don't mind the swearing, we were all US Marines so it is pretty much a part of our regular speech) and run into an encounter as a solo, you will run into the PARTY's encounter as a solo... pretty dire warning, but it was there: the consequence. None of us ever split the party.

In my opinion standard 5e already is multi classed (eldritch knights, arcane tricksters, and bards etc) so I don’t see why I would allow additional multi classing. It’s already in there.

The worst thing you can get is a rules-lawyering, yet cheating, min-maxing powergamer who also likes annoying the other players.

@boxofgreed

3 жыл бұрын

I am a former worst thing \o/

@backlash660

3 жыл бұрын

Try adding in drunken player on top of all the other things . Not fun .

@radartrigger5667

3 жыл бұрын

We've got one of those in our current star wars game and the worst part is that he's our normal DM 😒

@hoosieryank6731

3 жыл бұрын

Had that in my Dresden Files game, I chose to leave.

@NoActuallyGo-KCUF-Yourself

2 жыл бұрын

There seems to always be at least one in every group.

This is the video I've been waiting for. Real value here. Although... No multi-classing is quite Absurd. Have you ever had a player like Absurd?

Sounds like your "power gamer" is just a combination of the other five. Some people do enjoy a "power gamer" style, trying to etch out every advantage within the rules. Example: choosing a more expensive tool set during character creation for the purpose of selling it; or as a more roleplay version creating a bond with an NPC that allows you to aquire goods at a reduced rate. Personally I don't see power gamers as a problem, more so a variation of the puzzle gamer, but instead of enjoying actual puzzles they see the game itself as the puzzle. Thank you for taking the time to read this if you do, I do enjoy your videos especially with the skits. You are probably my favorite d&d youtuber. Good luck with all your endeavors.

"Because that's what the Dungeon Master would do." I need to remember this line.

Your description of “rules lawyers” is pretty much the definition of an actual lawyer.

One problem player I had made an entire anime guild hall with named characters as his backstory and would split the group and get his character killed often so that he can try out new builds. I didn't know that's what he was doing until later, and tried to have a resurrection arc before he asked for his old character to die again. Another played video games while we were in game, and we could hear it on his mic, but denied that he did. He partly payed attention, but told the party he was going back home to report the death of the previous player mentioned to the guild hall. Both are gone now, but they derailed the campaign hard enough that I'm ending it soon and just starting over with a new one.

What are your thoughts on off-label uses for spells and abilities in games, such as: Using Ray of Frost to chill an object to make it more brittle? Collapsing a Pole of Collapsing, and re-extending it, wedging it into a cave wall, creating a stable climbing surface? Using Fire Bolt to light a hay stack, potentially starting a fire? Taking the Magic Initiate feat on a Way of Shadow monk to get a familiar, then teleporting that familiar on the other side of a wall so that you can Shadow Step to it. Personally, I find these kinds of creative applications of abilities and spells in D&D to be super fun. They make me think outside of the box. I would, however, never argue with the DM if they disagreed.

I’m actually struggling with the power gaming as a player, of course after 10 seconds of arguing I realize I’m doing it again and stop myself. I think if you are struggling with it yourself just try and be more aware of what you’re arguing on and stop yourself, because at the end of the day you want to have fun and arguing is no fun to any of the players around you

The situation at the beginning of the video reminds me of a comic I saw in Dragon magazine like 15 years ago. The party is going to a lich's tomb with the thief adamant that there will be tons of content and loot for them to level up and gear up before encountering the lich. When the lich opens his front door personally and asks who is there, the rogue is the only one who thinks its a bluff and stays. It doesn't end well for him.

My formula is 7 fold. 1) Perceive a problem. 2) Talk to others in and out of the group to make sure it IS a problem (sometimes we perceive an issue where there is none) 3) Talk to the person causing the problem privately, identifying the problem, and your expectations for the future. 4) If problem continues, address it openly, with the same points. 5) If the problem persists, remove the problem. 6) After a time, if willing invite back, with the understanding that it is conditional on their conduct. 7) If problem happens again, removal and hard ban.

I had a player who was playing a “pacifist” Cleric/Artificer who not only refused to kill enemies, but actively tried to stop the party from killing people. Like, to the point of even healing low-health enemies or fighting allies to stop the killing blow. The way I stopped it was basically just... straight up telling him no. I wouldn’t track any death saves for downed enemies and I wouldn’t allow him to try to throw himself in front of attacks or anything. Probably not the best method but it seemed to work on him, he recognized that it was causing a lot of conflict in the party. (Oh yeah and he was also a mix-maxer with base 27 AC. Lots of saving throws for him late-game)

Ah the followup to the "It's what my character would do" rant! Haha great video as always!

Love the t-shirt, I need one in my nerdy life. Thanks for your insights...Cheers mate!

@theDMLair

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks and you are very welcome. :-)

Our party PVPs but it's for training or sparring scenarios during downtime and all the PCs involved consent.

"but my chaotic evil character would absolutely bail on the party or backstab an ally!" "Then your character probably wouldn't be part of the party for very long. Bye bye."

I love this video, and the skit is awesome 👏

Luke is channeling the Angry GM lately, and that's great.

I've been in a lot of games where how to measure something became pretty relevant. Simple reasoning, we weren't playing on a grid and using a VTT.

Yeah, just recently had to kick a family member out of the group. It was rough but needed. They were a cheater/spotlight stealer, and I was tolerant for too long because they were a family member. However, it was hindering my other players to the point where other people were starting to be more willing to skip and one voiced that it felt like an obligation to show up. Three weeks with them gone and the difference is felt and beneficial.

Very small thing, but I appreciate the custom closed captions!!

"But the problem player is a friend!" - Maybe they shouldn't be? - A common tell of the roll-fudger is a longer pause between the dice coming to rest and the declaration of the number. Another is they out-of-pattern stop saying "roll # plus skill #" and instead pause to do math and say "result of #" - I get the point of point-buy. We don't use it in our group, but we're pretty chill about min-maxing. As in we don't do it deliberately. Multi-classing in our group requires a solid roleplay reason and downtime for cross-training. I FULLY agree with limiting character builds to a specific book or books. We use only the PHB and Xanathar's, and Tasha's is "under review"

...Im a dm and im watching this, but honestly those mit-maxing rules....I've never seen a reason to apply those rules, I just make them suffer with my mystery dice rolls! But, I totally agree on the frustrating part with the power gamer.

@assanilightbringer4244

3 жыл бұрын

I didn't previously worry about the min-max on stats, but with 5e have come to realize that allowing players to roll instead of forcing point-buy/standard array leaves a large power-gap sometimes if one player rolls average and another rolls incredible...you end up with a character that often overshadows others even in their elements because all of their stats are high enough to make them as good or better than a character who was built to do certain tasks...Makes the game more level for the group as a whole.

@lokvichano7763

3 жыл бұрын

@@assanilightbringer4244 Honestly, to me, sometimes if the players roll generally bad overall, I just let them reroll all of their stats once and will have to pick the new rolls.

@Rockzilla1122

3 жыл бұрын

@@assanilightbringer4244 when rolling just set the minimum to be 70 point total and let them reroll if they come under that. Even if they roll a few really dump stats with a 6 or a 7 they'll still come out if it with 16s, 17s, and 18s to put in their main stats.

We do pvp but we ask the player if it is ok for some one to thump there character upside the head. Most of the time we all think it is fun! But yay sometimes it irritating. All depends the day.

On the min/max topic. I allow official release content with the caveat that there may be tweaks needed to "fit the campaign setting". I do allow homebrew content but only after I have had a good chance to review the content and approve, modify and offer, or deny the requested content. For those rule arguments, I have instituted a rule of what I say sticks for now if you want to talk about it after the game then that is the time for it not during the game.

With regards to examples of different types of rules lawyers (what RAW says vs what the player wants RAW to say), Treantmonk just did a pretty good breakdown in his recent optimization video.

I have 2 min-maxers tri classing they use a lot of cool stuff that causes me to learn a lot as a dm. So I have just started adding to the difficulty of combat encounters. When you have lv 4s attacking 2 or 3 times a round among other things it has to be done.

Great topic today and that skit was funny

reformed mr.limelight /min-maxer. I found the solution to focus on min-maxing support roles like an Enchanter or Bard Then make your "Limelight" to be that of a kingmaker or having a vested interest in letting the party over-achieve. That means that I have to adjust my playstyle to help PCs meet their goals and I HAVE to share the spotlight otherwise I'm not succeeding.

Talky talky stuff is indeed cool. That's how I play some parts of the DnD sessions!

In regards to your specific example of a power gamer, I rule that center of square to center of square is 5 feet, because each square is supposed to be 5x5, so that logically makes sense to me, but if you've been playing with a different ruling for years and he's arguing with it at a moment when it would benefit him, that's definitely bad. You guys have agreed to the way that's ruled previously, so there shouldn't be any further discussion there.

I recently had a problem player, or rather a problem with a player. His character wasn't interested in joining the rest of the party and would often ignore plot hooks. Literally the first session we played his character went "no thanks" and went off to drink at a bar while the rest of the party solved a murder mystery. This sort of behavior, while not as bad as it was the first session, persisted. He told me that he as a player was invested in the campaign, but that his character was not. We recently ended up taking about it, and it turns out the player and I have significantly different views on what a "character-driven" adventure is. To me, it means that the world reacts to the PCs actions and it requires the characters to interact with NPCs and the plot to move the story forward. To him, it meant that the PCs backstories should be in focus. He hadn't responded well to plot hooks because they had no connection to his backstory. So our troubles stemmed from a misunderstanding going aaaall the way back to session 0. I also got told to try and make my plot hooks more compelling for all players in the party, which I will take to heart. We scrapped that campaign and are going to start Rime of the Frostmaiden soon. This time I was clear from the start and told them "make characters that are interested in helping out the people around Ten-Towns, this adventure require you to be adventurers." We will start on saturday, I'm really pumped to DM for a party of characters who all WANT to interact with the adventure!

@ADudeWhoExperiences1393

3 жыл бұрын

Geez, that seems like his character had issues from the get-go. If you make a character who is an adventurer (which, basically every character you make is an adventurer), then dont you think your character wants to go and make money solving the murder mystery for the town? Or gain fame by bringing a criminal to justice? Like, why become an adventurer if you dont want to solve problems? I suppose characters, like a monk or cleric, could take a journey for personal enlightenment. With that logic, the PLAYER could argue that the character wanted to do the adventure as a part of fate or as part of their trials of enlightenment. I just feel that some plot hooks need the players to argue the reason with their own characters and find a reason to follow through with the adventure.

@PugsleyThePear

3 жыл бұрын

@@ADudeWhoExperiences1393 exactly, a "meet me halfway" kind of thing. To me, that's part of roleplaying your character - finding what motivates your character to go on adventures. I'm getting paid. I want to protect the people in this town. I might learn something important. This quest is crucial to one of my friends. I'm eager to show my skills. I don't want to let my party deal with danger on their own. I'm itching for a fight. I'm curious! All of these are reasons to go on an adventure that may forward a character's development without being explicitly tied to their backstory.

@ADudeWhoExperiences1393

3 жыл бұрын

@@PugsleyThePear Exactly! I'm lucky enough that my group usually does what we described and even if what is happening doesn't directly correlate to them, they will find a reason to try to do the adventure.

The instigator can be good as long as they aren’t creating pvp type scenarios.

@theDMLair

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah I feel like it depends on how they do it.

The easiest way to deal with problem players is forgetting to call them when next session is up and when asked 'oh our characters wouldn't adventure with you sorry"

I feel your pain. Recently dealing with a player who uses the "emotional blackmail" card ("...this makes me feel like not playing...")

I’m a big fan and I love your content. I do have to disagree on one thing though. If a player is remaining within the rules and making their character as strong as they can make it in the rules, I think it’s fine. Break the rules and it isn’t fine anymore.

Good advice. Hope this video help DMs to air out some of the dirty laundry that can pile up.

Horde of the Dragonqueen. The run through Greenest, a character dies to the half-dragon, they recoup, and head out of town to the encampment. As they near the "ambush" site, one player decides he's not into it.......and says he heads back to town to find more quests.

Honestly, I think the best thing is instead of rule 3 is carefully looking over what a homebrew race or third party race can do. Most players will likely stick to official ones. So for the most part, it should be easy to adjust the homebrew character types. I play DND partially for creating my character so I think this has a lot to do with knowing what your players want. If your players are role players primarily they might dislike having their creativity stifled because they don't understand the issues you are trying to prevent.

Hey I have also stolen from other characters because that is what my character would do....but I did it for the joke and returned it after the evenings adventure. Players and GM had fun with it, there is a time and place people, but know the sweetspot and the limits. P.S. great Video as always. Love the energy of the host on this channel.

love your Uraz rune necklace!

I have a classic for you. In my first campaign as a DM, a D&D 3.5 homebrew campaign, I had a player who knew the supplementary books better than I did. There were two version of half-Celestial, and he managed to conflate them so he got the more powerful version, while only paying the ECLs for the less powerful version. As a result his character was significantly stronger than everyone else. It wasn't until around half-way through the game that someone else worked out what he'd done. Unfortunately it was a story heavy campaign, with high CR battles so they'd advance faster, and removing or nerfing the character wouldn't work. So I just gave the other characters extra shinies (either gear or abilities) or a second character, and then upped the CR of the challenges even further.

@donb7519

3 жыл бұрын

whats an ecl?

I am a player in a campaign where one player has completely lost track of what their character and who that character is. May send both parts of this to DM once the second part come out.

Heads up btw, I'm sure you want to know this. I searched "Dungeons and Dragons" in the KZread search specifically trying to find your channel again because I really enjoy your content. I couldn't remember the name of your channel, just your face. You did not even show up in the list. I just began clicking other suggested searches until I finally saw your channel name and it looked familiar. I still wasn't positive until I saw your face. I suggest you put your face on your thumbnail photo. I think a cartoon portrait of the blue faced barbarian would be great and most identifiable to your audience. Anyway, keep up the good work. Subscribed 👍🥰

Man I misunderstood how the summon celestial options worked for paladins in tasha's when I first used it for awhile and was summoning it when I was wayyyy too low level and when my dm looked further into it and explained that I felt so bad. I have been gun shy so to speak, to even use the Tasha's extended rules without thorough review to avoid that.

Spell casters can knock out a player with sleep to prevent them from taking unwanted actions or if you have a rogue who's stealing from the party all the time cast haste on them. They end up passing out after the round is over so no loot for them

Ha I'm here early, I love video! This is great content, keep up the good work.

@theDMLair

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

While I can see why MinMaxing is seen as a problem, there is a similar behaviour that I really enjoy, both as a player and seeing it in other players as a DM. Because I love looking through the rules, the abilities, races and what have you, looking not for the most powerful combination, but the most interesting one (they are still quite strong usually). Things like "How many fighting styles can I fit on a single character?", "How much crit damage can I deal by just increasing the number of bonus weapon dice?", "What is the lowest level that allows me to survive maximum fall damage with some HP still remaining?", "Can I make dual wielding pistols work?" There are so many fun possibilities to explore and 90% of my character ideas are based on those interactions rather than anything else.

@Boss-_

3 жыл бұрын

Kindred spirits, you and I are. I tend to look for the same kind of interactions to take things to the extreme, and I often build those character prototypes just for fun, even if I didn't get to use most of them yet. As an example: right now I'm playing a brawler character. Okay damage, but incredible single target CC, with a grapple-tripping combo with Prodigy on Athletics and a level in Barbarian for Rage. Only caveat is he's borderline worthless against things that are immune to being grappled. Doesn't have to be strictly combat either, one idea I looked over with a friend is a character with proficiency in every skill, and experteise in a few more Sometimes I don't even go to the extreme and just think of a role concept like "I wanna make a melee Warlock, but NOT use Hexblade", or "A ranged support fighter", and go from there. Incidentally, I don't know about dual-wielding pistols, but hand crossbows: definitely. And you can deal upwards of 40 damage a turn like that at level 5 or 6.

@HairyHariyama

3 жыл бұрын

My most recent character started out as me going "Tieflings get a bonus to intelligence and charisma, but from a mechanical optimisation perspective, why would I want a character with both high intelligence and high charisma?" My answer was to make a sorcerer/wizard multiclass, the first time I ever made a multiclass character. Also I actually worked out the answer to your fighting styles question. Assuming that both Tasha's Cauldron of Everything and the blood hunter class are allowed, and that you can take the same feat multiple times unless otherwise specified, the answer is ten. 2 levels in paladin, ranger and blood hunter will get you one fighting style from each of those classes, then put the remaining 14 levels in fighter to get one fighting style and five ASIs. With each ASI, get the Fighting Initiate feat to get another fighting style. And then, for your tenth fighting style, you start out as a variant human. Guess what feat you're taking at 1st level. Heck, even if blood hunter isn't allowed, you just go to level 16 in fighter to get another ASI to pick up Fighting Initiate again and still have a total of ten fighting styles. That one isn't a character I am actually making by the way. It was more of a mental exercise than anything.

@kRx1203

3 жыл бұрын

@@HairyHariyama Well, Blood Hunter is at the end of the day a homebrew class and the PHB states that "You can take each feat only once, unless the feat's description says otherwise.". So the number would actually be 6. 2 levels of Ranger and Paladin will give you a fighting style each, Champion fighter gets 2 fighting styles, plus another one from the Fighting Initiate, and finally one from the College of Swords Bard.

Should've knocked on the door and ask if anyone is home.

as usual great content

I've always used the phrase Power Gamer as a more positive version of min-maxing, since that phrase has always had a negative connotation. That last one I always just called a rules lawyering min-maxer.

My brother started playing back ground music and it took about 30 minutes to resolve + the 15 minutes it took to get them to come downstairs, that session lasted 1 and a half hours instead of the usual 2

One of the first things you mention, "Don't punish their character in-game..." I was thinking this is exactly the type of thing you would WANT to do, to show their actions are making consequences for themselves and the other characters as things respond to their actions. So the All-Powerful Litch may be over the top, but certainly, the additional Oger behind the door that gets a surprise round on the Thief seems completely legit to me.

No joke, but it's not a Lich but a Hag Coven that has been left alone to dabble with souls for a while now and that intro about sums up the interaction.

Ive found for rules lawyers or power gamers. If they want to bend the rules tell them sure, but that all the bad guys and BBEGs will get the same exception. When they realise how OP that will make the bad guys they back dow quick

If you have a min-maxer try this, there is a monster or creature that is following them specifically. "My name is Inigo Montoy, you killed my father. Prepare to die." Only this creature doesn't want to kill the character, this creature is just min-maxed to perfectly cancel out that player's character.

What about multi classing in only groups of 3? So if you dip into warlock you must take 3 lvls of warlock. Does that solve the minmax problem with multiclassing?

When i first started playing I wasn't sure about the 5 feet thing as well. I thought since my character is in this one square and then surely he can hit someone who is 5 feet away. So someone who is 1 square away. I'm now rethinking everything I have ever done

I was playing in a game with homebrew Giants that were 200 feet tall and had 10,000 HP. (We later got a mcguffin that made the giants effectively have 100 HP as they were part of the plot). The whole party knew that those giants were not to be fought under any circumstances and we had received word that one was marching towards a city with a caravan of White Dragonborn (the antagonizing army in this campaign). We decided to scope out the army to get more intel and we had successfully hid to not be noticed by the caravan. As we were watching, one of the players (the problem player, he was a mix of a limelight and instigator as you put it in this video) decided he wanted to go up to the Giant and cast Spike Growth on its head. Well it took 2d4 damage and woke up the entire camp, capturing the problem player and interrogating him for information. Well, through the use of a detect thoughts spell, the Dragonborn found out all of our defenses that we had set up and managed to avoid all of them. The Dragonborn then proceeded to massacre the city we were defending and we barely got out alive. To this day, the memory of the session makes my blood boil, because we had created an intricate plan (something we don’t normally do) and we probably would have been able to drive the army back if he had just stuck to the agreement that we just want intel and we are not to engage.