Long term toxic employee: He's the guy that brings his attitude because he woke up late. Coming in 15 minutes late almost every day. Can't speak to him till 10:00am. Then when you approach him it's like he doesn't want to hear you. Then bitches that he feels he's left out of the good jobs. Now that they're gone, you realize things will and can be done without that toxic attitude.

I've been doing this shit for 40 years now. And there is a lot of shops out there with guys like this. What to do? Fuck him, down the road. I've also found that, whenever I changed shops, there was (nearly) always at least one guy that is very threatened by your (the new guy) presence. And decides that he needs to watch you, time you in the bathroom, either tell you or the boss that you were 3 seconds late or 5 minutes early (padding your overtime!), or go through the garbage and look for broken cutters, scrap parts, or odd chips (what are you making when I'm not here?). I've seen it many times, somebody decides that they need to watch and record (write down) what you're doing wrong. Usually it's one of the lower paid guys, that feels he should be making more than you. Fuck them too.

After 18 years on shop I notice there is a cycle happening especially to talented guy (if he is not talented then we should have no problem firing him 😅). New talented employees usually start good, we trained them, give them rise. Until some point they became difficult, and many things causing this like jealous to the new talented guy, thinking they are the smartest, our shop need him and he won’t be fired, different person different issue but the same pattern. I still don’t know the best way to dealing with these people, but I like the last sentence “dealing with the devil you know is better than devil you don’t know?”

Here is the best management skill. Thanks to my Stepfather years ago. Sit the employee down...Explain your concerns...Then send him/her home for the rest of the day PAID...Upon the return the next day...He or she will need the produce a one page letter on "WHY I WANT THIS JOB - HERE"...if they show up with the letter...never lose it and use it later if ever needed...

@bryantburns3664

Ай бұрын

Nah this is dumb

Highly skilled employees with bad attitudes get fired. End of story.

When I worked for Wheaton in Millville NJ. There was a group of A holes that gave me a hard time every day. After the death threats from the manager. I left. Best move I ever made. Made more money and less stress.

@csensale

Жыл бұрын

My shop was shady one time we had out main client come down to see how we made their products… some stuff was hidden

i have worked with many toxic people over the years , and left 3 places because of them , 1 of them was the owner of the company at a start up just me him and his wife , he was a nice guy when he hadn't worked a 22 hour day 2/3/4 etc days in a row , the 1st time i noticed was he smashed the kitchen up in the unit , the next time was a few days later , the lathe i was on was leaking coolant from the back he got in my face as i hadn't noticed his wife came over calmed him down he said sorry , i just said next time i will be out without notice , a few months later i had a crash on the mill as the tool pocket in the carousel was loose and loaded the tool on the drive dog , that day we nearly came to blows , when i went in a week later he asked me to comeback said he had had new pockets since he bought the machine but hadn't had time to put them on , i had to say no as i am calm 99.9% of the time but on a bad day the way he was it would of been a fight . the other people i find toxic are mates of bosses what a pain in the ass they are . sorry long one .

@csensale

Жыл бұрын

My shop was so messy lol Think old school place OSHA put a stop to smoking indoors

What if you have a skilled employee but a toxic supervisor

@iansandusky417

2 жыл бұрын

That's a super difficult situation. Easy answer would be to seek greener pastures, but I realize it's not always that easy. At the end of the day, a bad shop owner / manager / supervisor isn't likely going to change, so it's probably up to you to decide when enough is enough and find a more positive working environment. Sorry to hear you're going through it my man!

@corndog6700

2 жыл бұрын

I've had jobs where the Stupidvisor was an ignorant fuck, and would not take any kind of hint or advise from someone that they felt they were "better than." And an inspection supervisor that would never say, "I don't know," but would try to bullshit you about calculating things or methods. I had a chart for true position calculations, the standard one that is in the G. D. & T. manuals, someone asked my how to calculate it, I gave them a copy, he saw it, said, "We don't do it that way...." and dropped it in the trash. OK you fuck, you're doing it wrong. Right then I noticed that attitude. I just didn't talk to him at all after that. It was funny to watch him struggle though, he would not ask for help and didn't know where to find the correct answer.

@csensale

Жыл бұрын

Been there it was scary.

The forum poster was not a leader/people manager. For peace, quiet and harmony at work he needs to own a one-man shop.

I can be the moody guy sometimes, and it is because of my coworkers most times; they just do everything so sloppy and half-assed it pains me. Never maintain a single thing on any machine, their sweeping consists of an air blower putting all the fine dust particulate back in the air, and don't even get me started on their actual work. I could single handedly supply a thread on Reddit for a couple months with hack work. They're walking tornadoes of destruction in the shop, but are *mostly* good people.

@iansandusky417

2 жыл бұрын

Hey man, that sounds like a rough spot to be in and I don’t think anyone thinks everyone should be unnecessarily happy all the time - especially if you’re dealing with some real issues at work. Hope it gets better for you dude!

@owievisie

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah move on to another shop I am a bit the toxic one for the last year Pretty much the whole weight of the shop was getting more on my shoulders since I was slowly also managing the shop But for real I had to programm the hard parts, make them, order tools, order clothes for the guys, contact customers, dealing with emplyee problems, everything I started to burn out and after talking to a therapist for a few weeks I said NO I drew the line at stricly doing things that where only machining related Sometimes I see someone in the shop that could use my help, but I chose not to do it I just feel my energy getting drained really fast when I do side stuff like that Therefore I must say I am the toxic one now I just don't want to burn out and fuck up my personal life I will leave this shop most likely within a year to a shop that suits me better, where I am not the 'big man' anymore so that I can get inspired again by people that are better than me

@KISSMYACE3203

2 жыл бұрын

@@owievisie I can relate, I'm actually just a welder that does a small amount of machining. I've told my bossman a couple times now I plan on leaving but never made the commitment. I'm glad you brought up being inspired by people better than you. It's nice to see other people's work and go, "yeah, that's where I want to be." I've never once had the opportunity to say that here, and I don't even consider myself great at anything. I enjoy some friendly competition but not just to see who can get done the fastest and, albeit, sloppiest.

If You have a tallented guy, Its best to try to work it out. Tell the employee you appreciate his work but want to improve the mood and environment in the shop. tell him You would like to give him a raise if we can find a way to work this out. ask the employee what he thinks would improve thinks to where the shop mood would be better. then when all else fails, tell him its going to be a deal breaker if things cant improve.

@iansandusky417

2 жыл бұрын

Definitely agree that this is a very, very good method of approaching it!

Some people are just assholes. They are toxic at the barber shop, grocery store, at home, everywhere they go. They actually believe they are impressing others with rudeness and believe they are gaining level of their status in life. Some just see life itself as a negative and can't see the good things in their life. I've worked with people that you couldn't even say "It's a nice day outside" without setting them off. "You think I'm too dumb to notice that" they would fire back. These folks need to go. You are not going to call them in your office and correct this life attitude with a conversation or a verbal warning. Their personality has developed over a lifetime and it would take an equal amount of time to fix. That toxic attitude can be contagious and spread like the flu virus. He/she has got to go!

You could be doing your best in balancing everything and to some that is wrong. This is why I always wish fellow people good luck and be safe.

Remember the great santini I worked for a brilliant boss like this who taught me well while making everyone HATE being at WORK

It is no good being the only man in the organization that cares. I learned this the hard way. One cannot expect others around you to share the wish to be ambitious and do what is right for the company. Again, learned this the hard way. No one will praise you for doing what is right, no one will thank you all that will happen is you will make enemies. I was fired several times for caring too much. Learned the hard way, too late now it has cost me my previous career. Put in the minimum required, get along with everyone, do not make waves. For this reason I had to start my own small business. And be damned if I did not make the same mistake again. All the customer cares about is get his item in an expedient timeframe at the agreed to cost and it meets specs. That is all. Very simple. Stop trying to be a hero just do what the customer wants of you.

I’m glad I watched this. Thanks Man!

4:23 Good idea to train new folks to lead questions with 'how come' rather than 'why'. The word 'why' comes with negative connotations.

Only 1 thing to do get rid…because the negative will always outweigh the positive and you have the collective responsibility of the groups welfare to look after..it’s your responsibility to find the right person sooner rather then later….for the longevity of the business and you’re and your workers sanity…

Everybody needs to build a tool kit for interpersonal dynamics. I cannot ever really control the actions of somebody else. I can only control the way I react to those actions. In the absence of pre-meditated, rational reactions, I am at the mercy of irrational impulses, or, even worse, emotions. Machinists know that the numbers are really real regardless of what we want. In order to get the right part, the right numbers need to be in the right place. It may seem cold-blooded to contmplate, but design a "part" out of the people you work with. Decide on a set of traits and tolerances of the desired outcome, then work out the tooling and toolpath to remove the portions outside of the desired result. The analogy breaks down fairly quickly, but there are a number of applicable parallels.

@iansandusky417

2 жыл бұрын

This is fantastic advice, honestly. I really wish this line of thinking was more common in the trade! Thanks for checking it out!

I think there is also a factor of control in attitude. Much of people's happiness comes from a feeling of control, humans inherently are social but not particularly hierarchical. So while your the boss and need some control to maintain production and quality and other stuff, it's good to give some control away when it doesn't cost much. If he questions a process and his alternative process wouldn't damage production or quality any notable amount then just let him have it. There is a need to struggle with superiors innate in all of us, and everyone has a different amount of that need, within reason scratch that inherent itch in your employees.

@iansandusky417

2 жыл бұрын

I think that's a very important point. There isn't a ticket to misery quite as fast as micromanaging!

@orangedream267

2 жыл бұрын

>not particularly hierarchical Historically this is absolutely not the case (how many kings do I need to name? how many nations had caste systems?). And evolution also begs to differ. Look at any monkey tribe dynamic. We are honestly heavily socialised to shove that inherent 'I WANT TO BE KING' feeling down so we can work together as (mostly) thinking beings. It honestly takes a massive amount of will, and self introspection to realise you're being an asshat, if they guy can fix himself he's basically a unicorn. If it's to the point where it's unbearable, let the guy go. Same applies in the reverse, if your boss is being unbearable, let him go. Remember, you are hiring the job as much as you're being hired for it.

@kkknotcool

2 жыл бұрын

​@@orangedream267 All social animals are hierarchical, it's inherent in any social structure for power to be desired and taken unevenly according to the ability to take it. But take a look at a chimp troop and then take a look at a wolf pack and you will see how independent primates are for being social animals. Wolves, lions, most group animal cooperates to find food and requires a pecking order to work together effectively, primates just group together for mutual protection and allow an alpha to sit on the throne because why not? The point of the group is defense anyway, the alpha could be useful. Cooperation for defense is vastly different then cooperation for general work.

@ypaulbrown

2 жыл бұрын

@@kkknotcool well said

@leebarnhart831

Жыл бұрын

Well said. Good life observation.

anyone with a bad attitude is getting slept

Great advice. A lot of small shops could learn from this.

@iansandusky417

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you very much for checking it out!

Communication first🤣 When that fails ... Boot them out

@iansandusky417

2 жыл бұрын

This is the way.

@elijahagoro7177

Жыл бұрын

I agree first find out why they have an attitude then decide from their if you should cut them off

I would just tell them, I taught you everything about this business and you are progressively bugging me. What is the problem? Personal life? The air is thick everyday, what gives, I like wanting to come to my own shop. He'll probably get mad and quit, oh well. I've been into the diametric end of this, I've had half the plant toxic. The super took six months to look me once in the eye! Tribalism! Freaky the way people will act in a group, it got to the point I didn't want to go to work all the time and left. It was as if they didn't want all this complicated stuff fixed, it was more like how can we drag this out for weeks with overtime, and talk deer hunting and sports. Or senior employees trying to fake you out with high voltage BS, that easily could kill a naive co-worker, just so I might get fired!

Is he paying him enough is a question maybe the guy feels like he is doing a lot and isn’t making enough happens in small shops?

Shorting the 13.00 video: fire the guy. My personal note - you cannot change an attitude of the grown-up man. You can decrease for a some amount of time the level of toxicity and nagging by increasing the salary but it's a road to nowhere. There are plenty of guys who are really devoted to what they are doing and ready to do best in shop just because they love the trade and have a good parental upbringing.

Some time Employees can you tell one of us is lion and can also tell when they’re being played but they love their job so they go and do their best usually when they have a bad mood is because they know what the boss is doing in the background that can Kill the shop

I turned into a PITA due to management not caring about their employees. If management doesn't care about us, we're not going to care about the company.

@iansandusky417

2 жыл бұрын

I don’t think that’s toxic in the least FYI, respect just be given to be received - so if you ain’t getting it from above, they shouldn’t expect it in return!

i have a toxic customer id love to get rid of haha.

@iansandusky417

2 жыл бұрын

I've been there more times than I'd prefer to count!

All good points for sure. I think a level of self reflection is important as well though. He is now very skilled. Does his salary match his improved skills? If it is just the two of you and he takes on responsibility and helps build the business maybe he feels he is not being compensated accordingly. I know it might feel like you gave him that with your training. But at the end of the day he worked for you at the agreed salary so nothing is owed either way. But how much is he worth to your business now? Is he paid his worth?

@iansandusky417

2 жыл бұрын

These are all really important points worth considering for sure!

How about a machinist who happens to do everything he is told to do but throw every tools and doesn’t take care of the tools when he’s doing the job? Also, he blames others when things go wrong. Is he categorized as toxic too?

@corndog6700

2 жыл бұрын

If they are his own tools, not a problem. Better not be someone else's tools or the shops......

@cyranox90

2 жыл бұрын

@@corndog6700 unfortunately they are shop’s tools and equipment.

Talk to the guy, if he gives you attitude, get rid of him, I'm too old for this childishness.

Ian Sandusky is gangster I wish I could work for him

@iansandusky417

Жыл бұрын

Well I am hiring! If you happen to be in Canada you should definitely get in touch sir!

The sad reality is that some shop owners or manager/supervisors don't care. Their response to this is, "Well you need to have thick skin" or whatever. Every shop that I've worked at was the same way. Leadership tends to thrive on toxicity and "hear-say" as the person down below commented. Instead of dealing with a toxic worker whos actions are becoming cancerous which can ruin the work environment they somehow reward that behavior. Later down the road when people start working elsewhere or leave the trade all together management asked the big question, "Why are all our good employees leaving?" "Why does no one want to work?" "All the good people left and now we cant find anyone to work here!"..............my favorite.........."Why are people quitting? We just cant pinpoint why people don't want to work here?" If your watching this video and you are a machinist like myself and if your in this type of position and nothing good is going well for you at your current position at your job............leave. Its bad enough that this is a dying trade and not enough people to replace the older machinist retiring. Your peace of mind and work-life is important to you and don't forget why you got into this trade. Let the company suffer when they loss a badass Machinist like YOU!

@csensale

Жыл бұрын

We had a girl get fired on the spot after putting a syringe in the toolbox lol

What if he is a cousin and a brother of the supervisor.

Our industry is plagued with this. Why??

@Szcza04

Жыл бұрын

Crappy pay for the amount of skill and experience you need

I have a small well respected race shop, and have for decades. I dealt with this problem as well. ONCE. The only toxicity allowed in my shop is when the shop pitbulls have a little lovers quarrel. If I made C.N.C. Widgets, I might be more tolerant of this, but a disgruntled or distracted employee could cost the life of one of my customers or myself very, very easily. Before anyone calls me a hard head, strap yourself onto a 700 or more horsepower motorcycle. 90 percent of what I machine in a race engine is to .0001", not .005, or .001, but to a tenth. GOD BLESS.

@iansandusky417

2 жыл бұрын

Honestly, I think this is one case where being a hard head on it isn't a bad thing. If anything, I think too many owners / managers are too permissive with abrasive behaviours. Thank you very much for checking it out my friend!

get rid of him, please

Glad you stopped clapping in your videos. That was annoying lol

You're a candle in the darkness, want to be youtube friends?

Your perspective is refreshing, want to be youtube friends?