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@funDAYsmiling

2 жыл бұрын

I hope you don’t bother reading peoples’ independent video comments. Your voice and accent sound to me to be a typical “white,” American (and therefore standard) English accent. I’m a polymath with an organic native English fluency and even I find English pronunciation to be virtually impossible for me, and I even underwent speech therapy as a student to blunt any speech impediments, but English nevertheless confounds all tongues, lips, jaws and throats.

@shazmosushi

2 жыл бұрын

Previous coverage of Carl Zeiss: "Carl Zeiss, Explained: Germany’s Semiconductor Optics Master": kzread.info/dash/bejne/fWSox6-tfLefiKw.html "How Carl Zeiss Crafts Optics for a $150 Million EUV Machine": kzread.info/dash/bejne/iJOTqsSPnNGvc8Y.html

@jansix4287

2 жыл бұрын

YES YES YES ! Please do make a video about the East-German semiconductor industry and what is left of it. Thanks. 😊🙏

@tzarcoal1018

2 жыл бұрын

@@jansix4287 actually quite a lot. Dresden is maybe the biggest Semi Conductor center in Europe, of course well behind globally.

@snitox

2 жыл бұрын

Question, what motivates you to do poorly researched propaganda? Where was that breaking point?

I have a really nice Zeiss Jena hand-held telescope from right near the end of the Eastern bloc. I took it out of East Germany in mid 1989 - which required about 8 pages of export paperwork. When I got to the border, I forgot which pocket I'd put the export paperwork in and nearly ended up in an East German prison.

@abp1400

2 жыл бұрын

Wow!

@a11u45

2 жыл бұрын

Why was there so much bureaucracy?

@regularyugoslav8188

2 жыл бұрын

@@a11u45 This was common procedure even amongst socialist countries themselves. For example you were forbidden from taking literally 90% of all goods you could imagine if you were an East German Tourist in the Polish Peoples Republic. They just had goods shortages, especially Poland. East Germany was forced to actually export their goods to Poland since it was that bad and to top it off Poland was in huge debt

@KonradTheWizzard

2 жыл бұрын

@@a11u45 He was exporting socialist high tech into enemy territory. The eastern bloc was extremely paranoid about any technology that could be viewed as being almost competitive (officially it was called "superior socialist technology") to the western equivalent (officially "inferior imperialist attempt at undermining the communist state"). If you tried to export anything without proper paperwork you were a traiter to the socialist cause and ended up in Bautzen prison (really bad prison for political prisoners). It's quite extraordinary that he was even able to obtain the paperwork. Keep in mind that the west was equally paranoid about a lot of its (actually superior) technology - the eastern bloc went through some spectacular shenanigangs to secretly import a couple of Intel PCs, semiconductor equipment and more in order to be able to clone that technology (not that we ever heard of that from the inside, officially it was all invented here). In regards to some countries and technologies some western countries still have restrictions (e.g. exporting certain semiconductor or military equipment to China, Iran, Cuba, North Korea, ...). Isn't politics fun? ...yeah, I know: "Correct, it is not." 😉

@a11u45

2 жыл бұрын

@@KonradTheWizzard thanks

Interesting. Small correction. VEB, Volkseigener Betrieb translates: “People-owned enterprise".

my dad worked at CZJ and I grew up in that town. The cool thing about Jena is the left-overs of that 'Kombinat' together with Schott (glass specialist) and I think Jenapharm (GDR pharmazeutical company) plus the 2 Universities there. It's somewhat of a tiny HiTech region, or has been when I left like 14 years ago.

@Chrischi4598

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, Jena could keep it’s proper position and is one of the cities in the East that has a quite positive development (together with Erfurt, Dresden and Leipzig). Certainly is because of the specialization in the city, the good universities and the medical specialization of the city. Also pretty good infrastructure. Unfortunately no longer with high speed rail but at least one major highway through the city plus another one crossing right outside of the town.

@d4rktranquility

2 жыл бұрын

It still is. the new building next to the West-Bahnhof will be the next big step for ZEISS.

@joansparky4439

2 жыл бұрын

@@Chrischi4598 You could get lucky and they really going to build that east-west high speed link that runs over Jena all the way to Dresden. Just can't remember where it's supposed to connect to in the West.

@Chrischi4598

2 жыл бұрын

@@joansparky4439 wouldn’t make sense. They already have the east linked up with high speed route Leipzig Erfurt, plus the HSR Erfurt-Nürnberg. Only Frankfurt via Eisenach und Fulda lacks a real high speed connection, although I doubt that’s gonna happen soon as other routes have priority. Erfurt is the capital, it makes more sense of cause to connect it up.

I know a couple of people who worked on the KH-9 Hexagon, which was a series of 19 (launched) US spy satellites which orbited between 1972 and 1986. These things were absolute monsters. They were as large as a school bus and shot the entire Soviet Union every three months, in stereo, at 2 foot resolution or better. They returned film in four separate reentry vehicles. The main mirror of the KH-9, a 30 inch parabolic mirror, was built in East Germany, I'm fairly certain by Carl Zeiss Jena! This optic would have had wavefront error better than lambda/10, lambda being near-infrared around 800 nm in this case. So that's The provenance of the mirror is astonishing given how closely guarded the project was. The various bits of the KH-9 were built by contractors scattered across the US, with frequent "financial" audits that were actually checking that employees weren't moving from one subcontractor to another, such that an employee might see two pieces that fit together and from that deduce anything about the spysat. Had the Soviets known those lenses were going into spy satellites, they would have been able to determine the resolving power of those satellites easily. 30 inch near perfect parabolic mirrors with IR reflectance coatings are not common items. I wonder what the Soviets thought the Americans were buying them for. During the late 1960s and 1970s, the Americans bought 40 of the things.

@dave_dennis

2 жыл бұрын

Wasn’t this spy satellite the basis for the Hubble? I seem to recall the development of the Hubble was used as a disguise for the development of this satellite. This allowed certain work to be done out in the open under the guise it was for the Hubble when in reality it was destined for this satellite.

@IainMcClatchie

2 жыл бұрын

@@dave_dennis You may be thinking of the KH-11, which also has a single optical tube and basically looks like the Hubble. KH-11 was designed to image specific spots on the ground. The Hubble looks like KH-11 because the physical constraints on the design are similar. The KH-11 team really wanted to tell the Hubble team a few things that the latter was getting wrong, and couldn't. I know there was at least one detail about the composites used in the Hubble's truss that could have benefitted from a hard lesson learned years earlier. The KH-9 had two counter-rotating optical tubes. It was designed to image the entire landmass of the Soviet Union in stereo. It's been a few years since I ran the numbers but I think that we've only very recently developed the ability to downlink that much data from a spysat by radio. KH-9 did it in the 1970s with gigantic rolls of film (two of them, 8 feet in diameter, 1 mil thick film stock, 167 mm wide). I'm pretty sure the KH-11 has always had a radio downlink (no film). All the satellites up there now are definitely radio downlink.

@alexlo7708

2 жыл бұрын

@ They measure things in inch (crude imperial unit).

@0MoTheG

2 жыл бұрын

@ Because they are busy building bigger stuff that burn oil. Like 6L V8 or jet engines.

@IainMcClatchie

2 жыл бұрын

@ Jena has been a center of optical excellence since at least the American Civil War and maybe before that. And optics is an old, old business... I've seen a shop full of machines polishing lenses, where those machines were all built in the 1950s. American shop, in this case. That said, there were shops in the US that could have done this mirror. I have no idea why they sourced it from East Germany. The project risk seems incredible.

I worked for Carl Zeiss (Dublin California site) as a product design engineer for 7 years (left 4 years ago). It was very interesting to chat with Jena people who grew up in East Germany. BTW, they pronounce it YAY-nuh.

@ArnaudMEURET

2 жыл бұрын

@Stella Hoenheim We love you too Stella.

@zukacs

2 жыл бұрын

@Stella Hoenheim dude wake up

@Acceleronics

2 жыл бұрын

@Stella Hoenheim I think you're wrong, Stellie

@john99776

2 жыл бұрын

@Stella Hoenheim Yes we do.

@nietur

2 жыл бұрын

yay? it's ye

The Robotron story might be quite interesting to the viewers of the channel. In Dresden are still two buildings called Robotron and Robotron Kantine.

I have a Zeiss ikon nettar 515/16 camera from 1938.. it still works and I shoot a few rolls of film a year with it. Zeiss made great cameras

@kazmeisterkometh122

2 жыл бұрын

The Ikontas, Super Ikontas, Ikoflexs and we could just go on and on and on.....

After my PhD in physics I went to work in industry and my first boss, Prof. Werner Lindemann, was a former Carl Zeiss scientist who emigrated to Brazil after WWII. Prof. Lindemann was the youngest scientist involved in optical systems projects during the war and was the responsible for the project of the first night vision optical systems ever made (goggles, lunetes etc). At that time computers didn't exist already and all optical system projects have to be calculated using logaritm tables, and the technicias couldn't work more than 6 hous a day due to the stress/effort to make thousands of calculations. One of the first Carls Zeiss revolutionary projects, the TESSAR triplet photographic and projection lens, took almost 10 years to be developed by a team of technicians working full time and making the calculations by hand.

Man really the first Patron i consider signing up for.

@M.V.P.

2 жыл бұрын

yeah man, me too. Love this channel!

@possiblyadickhead6653

2 жыл бұрын

@Stella Hoenheim lmao are you a bot?

It's really great to have a not German opinion about German companies which are affected by the reunification. Thank you for your work, and please more of it :)

Odd one, and possibly out of your interests, but related to this: There were two 'Neumann' microphone companies - and both survive. Why did they both survive and thrive?

@mohamedfahad2364

2 жыл бұрын

This is that one company bought by Tesla?

Similarly, you could talk about the two Mercks that still persist to this day.

@_ata_3

6 ай бұрын

Oh this should be very interesting too!

The name of the city Jena is pronounced as if it starts with a “y.”

@Seele2015au

2 жыл бұрын

More like "YEH-na", and definitely not "JEN-na".

@techmad8204

2 жыл бұрын

Like jager?

@Schmerb

2 жыл бұрын

@@techmad8204 yeah, pretty much like an American would pronounce "Jäger" but with an n. In German wo rarely use the "j" sound how it is in englisch and if we do it's written like "dj" or like "dsch"

yanks took the cream of the company and relocated it out of Jena (contrary to foundation documents) and started a new company by posthumously altering foundation papers, yet soviets split the company. What did I miss?

@georgenikolaou6027

Жыл бұрын

you may also have missed how the great inventor Nikola Tesla reaped all the fortunes bestowed to him by the mighty honest capitalist named Edison.

Super fascinating. Thank you so much. Been a subscriber since you had 1000 or so subscribers, and you have never let me down, not even once.

Thanks, a video on the East German semiconductor space would be of interest

Great work, man. Very interesting stuff!

My grandfather did some work with computers in the DDR. Although I don‘t know where and when, him repeating to not take on the offer of joining the party, always left him with a superior, way less qualified than him. My grandpa loved technology. He built many things by himself, for example an electronically timed automatic window closer closer, so hi sleep won‘t get disrupted when the people drive to work in the morning. (Mind you this was in east soviet Germany!) My mom vaguely told me, that he worked on one of the first DDR Computers.. and I can hardly imagine how frustrating it would be, always having your development halted by some dumpass who took the short route by boot licking the dictatorship, not knowing what the fuck they are doing.

I work at a forged parts factory in Romania.We have "inherited" from the former communist factory some apparatus.Among them a hardness tester (Härteprüfgerät) made by VEB Werkstoffprufmaschinen Leipzig which features a Carl Zeiss Jena eypiece measuring scope. These are very sturdy machines.One like ours but which is built in 1966(ours is built in 1982) sells for 4.800 euros which speaks a ton about their quality.

The company I work for ( AMS / OSRAM ) purchased a small Jena based optoelectronics company back in 2016 by the name of Mazet. I don’t know it’s history but I feel given it’s area of specialty and the timing at least some of the employees must be former Zeiss Jena employees. I’d love to learn more about this.

To put it simply there was the Carl Zeiss Foundation (Carl Zeiss Stiftung), Carl Zeiss Optics (the company that started it all), and the photographic equipment operation Zeiss-Ikon, all these were re-established in the US-zone of Germany after WWII. Zeiss-Ikon was an amalgamation of several photographic equipment companies, headquartered in Dresden, but with constituent operations in Stuttgart and Berlin as well: the western operation took over the Stuttgart branch (originally Contessa-Nettel, and Contessa prior to that) as their own Zeiss-Ikon HQ. Zeiss-Ikon Dresden amalgamated with practically all photographic equipment manufacturers in the DDR, adopting the name Pentacon, which was in turn acquired by Jena in 1985. After Germany's reunification, the Treuhandanstalt was established to acquire all the enterprises in the former DDR for the purpose of selling them off. With the western operation of Zeiss they committed the worst case of industrial vandalism imaginable: the destruction of Pentacon. Factory, products, parts, archives, were all swiftly and systematically destroyed: this will probably remain a stain on both the Treuhandanstalt and Carl Zeiss.

@kiennguyenanh8498

2 жыл бұрын

In business, if there is anything that is not profitable, they should be systematic dismentle, only keep the ones worthy. No one want to waste huge amount of money to invest in something that can not generate revenue

I remember as a kid going to a planetarium and besides the star show being impressive that weird thing from outer space in the middle of the theater was captivating too! The Wikipedia article says it was a Mark IV Zeiss projector. It was already old back then.

This is just brilliant. Thank you!

Yes, i would like to see your asian look at the 30y east-german chip fabs journey. I was in cooperation with them in the 90s. So you will find names: SMI, alpha microelectronics in Frankfurt/Oder ZMD in Dresden Thesys in Erfurt All fabs/design centers are transformed but Dresden get much outside attraction with now 40.000 employes in a very diverse microelectronic landscape.

These business biographies are so valuable and entertaining to watch... kudos for your efforts. Thank you.

The systematic and surgical dismantlement of East German companies by the West, after extracting as much value as they could from them post-reunification is most unfortunate.

Really cool story, i remember using the examples in a debate, but wasnt entirely sure how signifcant it was. Very intresting comparative economic study!

Interesting and informative. Thank you

Jena is pronounced like "yay-na", not "jenna". Sorry, it just grates on me. The dismantling of German industry was enshrined in a policy called JCS 1067, which grew out of the infamous US Treasury's Morgenthau Plan. The plan called for essentially the deindustrialization of the entire German economy, reducing Germany to a solely agrarian country. Critics of the policy said that it would lead to intentional depopulation since Germany could not feed itself and would have nothing to trade for agricultural goods. The policy was in effect from 1945 until 1947 and, with the onset of the Cold War, was replaced with the Marshall Plan.

Excellent work on this! Would love to see a follow up on East Germany's attempt at building a native semiconductor industry.

Enjoyed this very much, thanks

Beautiful. Thanks a lot man.

Glad Jenoptik is still around. They're also the legacy of Zeiss.

Very interesting flic. Thank you for putting this all together. An introspection into East Germany's semiconductor industry would be interesting. Although ultimately the semiconductor assets of Robotron turned into Global Foundries. It would be interesting to hear how this came to pass. Also it would be interesting see what happened to the cluster of calculation and crypto companies in East Germany after the war under the Russian occupation and how all this ended up in Robotron. The Enigma machines came from Eastern German territory and there seems to have been a whole network of electric and mechanical sub suppliers who contributed to the production of these machines. Interestingly enough is the leading University for Semiconductor education in Germany still Dresden. So, yes I would be very curious about the proposed flic.

For the love of god, it's pronounced Jena, not Jena.

@techmad8204

2 жыл бұрын

Yes it's Jena not Jena!!!

I have a Russian 35mm camera that was made during the USSR with a lens based off a Zeiss Sonnar design so this is fascinating to me. Thanks for the great vid

Great video, thank you.

I guess there were several "divided" companies like BMW and EMW, DKW and Zwickau/Trabant etc.

Pronunication issues: Jena is Yeh-na. Yeeeh-na Zeiss is Tsa-is. Not size, T-before-the-z Tzais

Great video. I read ASML bought another large german optics company last year, which seems quite unusual. Do you have information on that?

15:22 You mention that workers were promoted on their ideologies rather than their merits, what sources back that statement up? Overall a good overview but things like that, and the "Soviets split Zeiss" statement are not particularly objective.

@raining_macondo

2 жыл бұрын

That's true, plants were in Jena, new factory being in Oberkochen accused Jena splitting it?

@kiennguyenanh8498

2 жыл бұрын

Well, in such Communist -dominated countries, ideologies was the most important factor when it come to the promotion. There are plenty of article available online, this is like common knowledge

I love your channel!!!! Please to the sequel about the East German semiconductor space!

6:48 I think the Ship of Theseus analogy applies only to physical objects, not corporations and foundations which are essentially creatures of legal fiction.

Whale of information. Excellent topic for students in optometry,

You are doing a fantastic job. I realy appreciate all the aspects; the research, the visuals, the tonality. Yet, it's very disapointing from a european point of view (and this is basic European History) to listen that the division of Germany was between Capitalism and Socialism. All western european countries are more or less identified with socialdemocracy... There is a foundamental misunderstanding (politically driven) that renders all European politics incomprehensible .This confusion has devastating consequencies and there has to be some serious consideration whrn we talk about these things. Don't get me wrong, I say it again, I really appreciate what you are doing and that's why I write this comment. Keep up the good work!

There is one important point which should be made clear, and that is that the Russians were awarded industrial capacities, including optical, as compensation for industries which the Germans destroyed. This accounts for the removal of plant from Jena to Russia.

@kitdesilva

2 жыл бұрын

Yes the soviets did most of the fighting & most of the dying in WW2. The US grabbed stuff, so why not the USSR?

Are u gonna start a new channel euronometry? Id be keen to see your insights and documentary about it

Great report on Carl Zeiss Jena. After the two Germany merged, without Mr. Lothar Spaeth contribution the company would never achieved the success they have today, despite all the heavy competition from Asia.

The way the company split in 2 reminds me of the Banach Tarski paradox

The question really is which of the companies were really more socialist? Since the whole point of socialism is that workers are mean to benefit from profits of their labour. Controlling the means of production and all that. And in many ways the western side of the split company followed that more closely.

How the soviets split carl zeiss . Very good and interesting vid 👍 Have you done a vid of modern carl zeiss ( that made photographic lenses , using cosina factory ) ? I have 3 photo lenses in nikon f mount made by c.z. Keep up the good work and greetings from Indonesia -

Interesting to know this

I worked for ZEISS in Jena in this exact building a couple of years ago. They are investing in a new one right now.

They were both the real Carl Zeiss, just entangled version of each other.

How to pronounce Jena: "Yeah-na". Great video. Love my Zeiss 85 mm / f1.4 as well as the books of Anne Applebaum!

Reupload? Or did someone else make the same video

I have a set of CZ binoculars with IR filter. Supposedly it was Berlin wall equipment. Picked it up after the Warsaw pact collapse and imports of excess equipment to the United States.

you might like to know back to back Optics analysis shows japanese camera optics are comparable to Zeiss. Different models have different advantages, nothing to the scale of their price difference would suggest.

it is eary to see the crocus city hall in minute 5:10 just days after the attack

you should thank the national endowment of democracy for sponsoring your videos

The picture at 11:46 caught my interest because of the unusual (to me) keyboard layout. After a bit of searching it seems to be Hungarian, but missing Í, Ú and Ű. The actual typewriter model seems hard to identify, as if you look hard enough, it seems to have some subtle differences to pretty much every model it looks superficially similar to.

@marvin19966

2 жыл бұрын

Looks like an Erika 34

This is an amazing reference for thinking about long term prospects for Chinese companies

@thisiskevin1000

2 жыл бұрын

Totally different time with the advent of the digital economy

why is it reposted?

Good video! As noted down below, since Jena is pronounced "Yayna", Jenoptik is pronounced like "Yenoptik" or "Ienoptik", not with the "J" sound like in "Jennifer". Sorry for nitpicking.

Eastern Block companies developement would be most welcomed here (Just to randomly throw in some from Czech Republic: Skoda, CZ, Avia, Tatra, Bata, Eta, Remoska, Budwaiser, Pilsner, Chemopetrol, Slovnaft...)

Very interesting story.

The photo is of a planetarium projector. The ones I've seen have always been Carls Zeiss products.

I find it really sad that Jenoptik that is HQed in Jena doesn't continue with the Zeiss namesake.

Oprema wasn't Germany's first working computer, that was a Zuse instead. The sign say correctly that ist was one of the first Computers in Germany. Other than that, an excellent story of the two Zeiss. Thanks.

Biermann was not authoritarian (in a sense any company is authoritarian), but rather trying to get the Kombinat working like a normal corporation does. Kombinats had been formed to pair/couple un-profitable VEBs with profitable ones (fault of socialism/communism, which is not working because of our human nature). One anecdote was that Bierman found out that a lot of the secretaries where out chasing Mangleware and not working for the company - so he used his connections and got the products that were in high demand for his workers/the town so the people could concentrate on their work. The Microchip thing IMHO was them doing what some companies further east had tried, but failed at.

War and its consequences divided CZ, not only the Soviets, it was an effort made by the Cold War powers.

Interesting that you post abt CZ yesterday..Today is it's 175th anniversary!!...

Merci beaucoup, cette histoire est fascinante. Le monde ressemble à sa technologie. L'histoire de la rétro-ingénierie Est-allemande est incroyable : la juxtaposition de technologie avant-gardiste avec des techniques dépassées comme dans les voitures Trabant, des parties de carrosserie en bakélite et un carburateur goutte à goutte!!!

I used to own several Carl Zeiss Jena lenses in M42 mount but I didn't know how to clean them, so I ended up selling them.

@kazmeisterkometh122

2 жыл бұрын

Nooooooooo

Zeiss Ikon, good camera...

For the record: The V in "volkseigen" is (in English spelling) an f, not a v, just as in "folk song" or "folklore"... or "Volkswagen". And "eigen" is just as in "eigenvalue" :) , you also got "Betrieb" generally right. "Volkseigener Betrieb" technically means "people-owned business" but with the GDR having been state capitalist, yep, state owned is fair enough.

The title is kind of misleading as effectively USA split the company

@MrMischelito

2 жыл бұрын

But nice essay overall. Thank you. I really enjoy your videos

what facinates most is the german engineering under whatever system will keep flourishing greetings from algeria

5:14 Is that a typo? 1945???

You should share your semiconductor investments in your Patreon. I'd totally subscribe.

@praetorianx86

2 жыл бұрын

Maybe it's like mine - TSMC, ASML, AMD, Nvidia, Samsung and a little bit of Intel for old times sake

Hey USA split Merck into two, so it is completely fine with two Carl Zeiss.

So Carl Zeiss Jena is now Jenoptik..... They guys that make radars

3:16 Since the Americans just took parts of the company and its workers first, it would be more accurate to name the video "How the Americans split Carl Zeiss"; or if you want to be even more accurate and less partisan "How The Cold War Split Carl Zeiss"

Great video... but my ears were bleeding at the pronunciation of Jena which should be "yeh - na"

This is not directly related, but another interesting case of Two German Companies With The Same Name is Merck. It was a German company whose US subsidiary, including the trademark, were expropriated by the US government during World War 1. Interestingly, both of them still exist, and much like the Carls Zeiss, they split the world trademark-wise (though more acrimoniously). Merck KGaA (the German entity) trades as Merck everywhere but the US, but cannot use the name here. It has a major US subsidiary, MilliporeSigma, which only refers to itself only as that and does not use the Merck name on any of its marketing materials. Merck & Co., Inc. (the US entity) is known as MSD (Merck Sharp & Dohme) abroad. The two Mercks continue to bitterly fight it out over the trademark. Apparently German Merck argues that even the “M” in MSD is infringing (according to Wikipedia).

@alexlo7708

2 жыл бұрын

US steal even brand!!

@kurt9395

2 жыл бұрын

This is the same as in the case as Bayer, of aspirin fame.

@777rogerf

2 жыл бұрын

@@alexlo7708 It is called reparations not theft for good reason.

@alexlo7708

2 жыл бұрын

@@777rogerf For good sake of the thieve. WWII German had never being enemy to the American until US started its theft.

"Import Restrictions" - the Cold War

Just FYI. Jena is pronounced yeh-nah. It's a site of a famous battle where Napoleon defeated the Prussians.

@capmidnite

2 жыл бұрын

This question has been covered in the discussion thread. That's the German pronunciation. You wouldn't expect an English speaker to pronounce Paris as "Paree"?

@MichaelT_123

2 жыл бұрын

English/Americans often complain or make jokes about the pronanciation of English words by foreigners. German and French are their favourites! So, it is an excellent opportunity for them to look from the other side of a mirror. Regarding pronunciation. The first syllable is like in pronunciation of the surname of United States Secretary of the Treasury Janet Louise Yellen. By the way, her name is derived from the polish word "Jeleń", which means "deer".

@capmidnite

2 жыл бұрын

@@MichaelT_123 Is pronouncing Muenchen as Munich a mis-pronunciation of the German?

@MichaelT_123

2 жыл бұрын

​@@capmidnite Hi, I am not a "German pronunciation expert", but the regions' differences in English language pronunciation also exist on the GERMANIC territory. As such german language is not homogenous and various pronunciations of words and name places are commonplace. City Munich is a good example here. The pronunciation will differ in various Germanic dialects, including Yiddish !!! - language used by Jews which "originated" in the Bavaria region by transcribing regional Munich-Germanic dialect to Hebrew alphabet ( use of Latin alphabet in Jewish communities was prohibited as not "kosher")

@kurt9395

2 жыл бұрын

@@capmidnite Is pronouncing London as Londres a Spanish mispronunciation of English? Is pronouncing Paris as Parigi an Italian mispronunciation of French? What is your point here? Historically, many places were known by multiple names depending on the language. Nothing unusual or wrong with that. The difference is that these places were always of some significance to be known internationally or had multiple names due to the shifting winds of history (e.g, Danzig vs. Gdansk, Prague vs. Prag vs. Praha). This is not the case with a tiny city in the middle of Thüringen (see what I did there) that most people never heard of. The point is that one should use the name that is best understood by the people who use that language, if only for clarity's sake. If I'm speaking English, I'll call it Munich. If I'm speaking German, I'll say München. Same with Vienna vs. Wien or Cologne vs. Köln. Would anyone understand if I was talking about Zhong-guo, I meant China?

Aren’t Trabant cars in the thumbnail? It have to.

I can’t believe how critical people can be regarding the pronunciation of Jena. How do you pronounce Berlin? ber lin or ber liin? English speakers would say ber lin. So for every English speaker who pronounced it that way you are wrong. Same goes for Paris France.

@arsic094

2 жыл бұрын

Changing accent or letters completely absent from ones language is understandable, using completely different and unrelated letters kinda isn't.

@milantrcka121

2 жыл бұрын

@@arsic094 Try English spelling vs. pronunciation... "Fish" should be spelled "Ghoti" (Mark Twain). There are many more!

To everyone trying to point out the correct pronunciation of "Jena", it's like expecting an English speaker to pronounce Paris as "Paree".

@arsic094

2 жыл бұрын

Not really. R from Paree is not used in English. J from Jena is exactly the same as Y in yes.

@capmidnite

2 жыл бұрын

Except J is never "Y" in English. Why don't English speakers pronounce Munich as "Muenchen"?

@arsic094

2 жыл бұрын

@@capmidnite The name you use should be as close to the original as possible. It shouldn't be based on wrong reading. Jena should be pronounced as it is in German. Written in English that would be Yenna or Yena. The same thing happens almost every time westerners use B in words of Greek origin, they should actually use V. Greek B is actually called vita, not beta. The fact that letter B represents different sounds in those languages doesn't change the original sound. Uneducated people see a familiar letter in a foreign word and pronounce it as if it was their own language. That shouldn't be the case.

@arsic094

2 жыл бұрын

@@capmidnite The name you use should be as close to the original as possible. It shouldn't be based on wrong reading. Jena should be pronounced as it is in German. Written in English that would be Yenna or Yena. The same thing happens almost every time westerners use B in words of Greek origin, they should actually use V. Greek B is actually called vita, not beta. The fact that letter B represents different sounds in those languages doesn't change the original sound. Uneducated people see a familiar letter in a foreign word and pronounce it as if it was their own language. That shouldn't be the case.

@capmidnite

2 жыл бұрын

@@arsic094 "Uneducated people see a familiar letter in a foreign word and pronounce it as if it was their own language." But what if the English-pronunciation of the foreign place name has been long accepted and used by everyone from journalists to diplomats? Examples: Paris, Munich, Moscow. Pronouncing "Jena" with a hard "J" sound is a far less butchering of the original than the examples I gave. 99% of the time an English-speaker will pronounce it with the hard "J."

5:00 this a first joke photo/caption I've seen on this channel. Maybe there were many, just I was not knowledgeable, what are they? P.S. AFAIK it is not even modern Krasnogorsk. though geographically close place.

Thank you John, very Asian.

It is more reasonable to infer the West divided Zeiss and the soviets retained in the original form. They did not smuggle things away and set up an alternate company with the same name. What you have stated is the history of the Germany. It did not exist before foreign definition

@user-sm3xq5ob5d

2 жыл бұрын

Do you say the Soviets took not 90% of assets into the Soviet Union?

@raining_macondo

2 жыл бұрын

@@user-sm3xq5ob5d That's the 2nd time split, not the 1st.

@user-sm3xq5ob5d

2 жыл бұрын

@@raining_macondo Makes it not have happened?

@kiennguyenanh8498

2 жыл бұрын

It is important to note that the Soviet definately did not retained it in its original form, the one who did it was the West, also the Soviet they smuggle 94% of its factory What do you mean by saying "it did not exist before foreign definition"

It is more reasonable to infer the West divided Zeiss and the soviets retained it. They did not smuggle things away and set up an alternate company with the same name.

这标题下的不去当网军可惜了。

When the headline is already wrong 😂

It was actually the Americans who split Carl Zeiss - here is how they did it, in the words of the epople involved with footage from the times: kzread.info/dash/bejne/fGhnvNp-Z5u9lM4.html (can use auto-translate for what it's worth)

Je.na (yeah, nah) It's not Jenner.

@MTobias

2 жыл бұрын

Things get pronounced dfferently in different languages. It's not new. Why do Germans always get so uptight about it?

@joansparky4439

2 жыл бұрын

@@MTobias Germans try to do things correctly.. and especially Zeiss-janers (people working at Zeiss) were known for being very good at what they did.. anecdotal they would deburr parts before throwing therm into the bin ;-)

@MTobias

2 жыл бұрын

@@joansparky4439 Germans mispronounce foreign names just as much as anyone, yet many get extremely upset when someone else does it. It certainly doesnt help their reputation for having sticks up their butts.

@capmidnite

2 жыл бұрын

The hard "J" is how it is pronounced in English. Like how Nurnberg is pronounced Nuremburg, Muenchen is Munich, Braunschweig is Brunswick. Jena is Jena in written English because I guess it's a simple name.

@joansparky4439

2 жыл бұрын

@@MTobias point it out to them and they will happily correct themselves, as I said, we do things correctly most of the time ;-) But if you do a video of 15 minutes about a company with the name of the town being part of its name.. well. I mean, we can read this stuff ourselves. They have a museum in town that has all that info and more anyway. Don't you point out mispronunciations when they happen? Another Channel - Scott Manley - tries his best to pronounce correctly and at the same time excuses his mispronunciation if it should have happened still.

This video would have been a 💯️ if the Jena was pronounced properly, it's just so distracting. especially knowing how much research went in to it, and yet such a small, but obvious thing, was missed.