I could watch Robert's videos all day long. Robert is always enthusiastic and engaging. His videos are always interesting; and some provide invaluable guidance. After all these years, you would think he would run out of worthwhile topics, but, in Robert's hand, no!

@LivingPianosVideos

Жыл бұрын

My students and followers provide a wealth of new topics all the time!

@adrianthomas6244

3 ай бұрын

​@LivingPianosVideos thanks Robert my music score of Beethovens Moonlight sonata is alla breve or cut common time, when I play it, I count two beats to the bar, which humbly speaking sounds right, though I now have a casio s110 digital piano, that as a built in metronome, so I may use the metronome on it, could you please tell me how many beats to the bar to set on my digital piano, greetings from wales uk 😀

It FEELS better at the 2nd tempo. My personal feeling is SLIGHTLY slower than you played it. With slight retarding as the melody is played and the time you take to slow a bit is the same amount of time you take to speed up. Not all the melody is played with retarding. Paderewski played it pretty fast with the center section even faster, then slowing down again to the original temp. To me, it had a feeling of dampened frustration, then anger, then back to accepted frustration. Moonlight Sonata was the first piece I ever learned. BTW, don't look for me at Carnegie Hall anytime soon, or ever for that matter. VERY Interesting video.

I’ve been saying this for quite some time! Everybody (including some pianists I really like) play this at that slow “4/4”-like tempo, and for one reason or another, that much slower tempo has become standardized. This actually makes the piece a lot more challenging than people make it out to be, because it now means that the triplet eighth notes should be as still and quiet as possible. Playing them too loud would indeed make the “alla breve” tempo sound “too fast” for listeners. The trick is to place more emphasis on the bass half notes, and of course, the top melody. I’ve not actually “properly” learned the first movement, but I think a tempo anywhere from 30-33bpm (or 60-66, since my metronome doesn’t go that slow) is appropriate.

Thanks Robert. I think it is so important to know what the composer “wanted”. I think you show how important to “think” about what one is playing. I think it is so important to ask the question. “What was the composer telling us”?

I just wish the audio quality was better. Don't know where the loss is, but Moonlight sounded like it was played on a tinny old bar piano. Regardless, the content is always well worth listening a little harder. You give good advice and it is always just the right length to be absorbed. Thank you!

@LivingPianosVideos

Жыл бұрын

Try listening with headphones or decent speakers and see if it still sounds that way to you. By the way, the Steinway in the recording was just tuned since this video was made!

@CetandiBolger

Жыл бұрын

It's definitely out of tune... sorry, but it doesn't make a difference with high quality bose or Sony headphones either. It is simply out of tune. However, thanks for the tip regarding the original in 2/2 time. I didn't know. I just feel rushed though... it seems that the piece is too fast in that time signature... but I'll keep trying .. I like to keep things original.

Thank you so much. I love the speed you play the piece. I have no trouble with the speed but with playing the passage softly. I shall try with the soft pedal .

Excellent thanks! When I play Beethoven, I mentally "sing" the melody. I believe I started doing this because of learning at a young age of his deafness. I found myself imagining if I could not hear, how could I not only compose and score the piece? If you have ever seen or actually have a "Master's" original score, the first thing missing is performance instructions. When I heard your melodic voice during this presentation, I noticed you must also do a version of the same thing. It wasn't just the time signature you changed, you changed the voice.

@LivingPianosVideos

Жыл бұрын

Singing your music is a great way to understand composers' intentions of melody on the piano. Creating a sustained line on the piano (which is a percussion instrument) is the greatest challenge!

Bravo, totally agree with your explanation!

Another great video Robert. I really like Glenn Gould’s recording. At first listen, you’re almost taken aback at the tempo he takes. But it just sounds better.

@BruceCross

8 ай бұрын

Yes, the faster tempo flows better, the piece comes alive, and the chord changes aren't lost amidst the notes. I like more rubato, but that's a personal preference, not finding fault with a genius.

Wonderful Robert, Thanks so much. I'm finishing up an RCM exam and after, this is going to be on my pieces to learn list this year. It's also the main piece that got me interested in learning the piano to start with. So very excited to finally have it be at my level. Picking up the Urtext version.

It's funny. When I was young, the Moonlight Sonata was my favorite piano piece. Many years later I learned to play the piece. I'm not a musician...and don't know a lot of musical notation. So I just played it how it felt natural....at this speed.

I settled on a tempo of half note = 30. If you're interested I have my recording of it on my channel;)

Why is this even an issue?? ALL written classical music is nothing more than a frozen improvisation. There is a reasonable probability that old Ludvig may have written the piece a little differently at a different time. Music is a fluid art form, It is not a painting that is preserved as is for eternity. Playing music expressively depends on a person's mood at the time of playing. Additionally, there are no recordings of Beethoven playing it, furthermore no one who heard him live is is willing to talk. With all due respect, the issue of how fast is fast or how slow is slow is purely academic. It is like arguing about which brand of very good chocolate is best. Inventing the cure for cancer is a better use of one's time. I have a degree in theory and composition and have been playing piano for over 65 years. May God strike me dead ... I always vary slightly the tempo when playing Bach. Andras Schiff is a master of Bach and just lets his critics fume while he adjust the tempo and expression to his taste at the time of playing. :) ( just to clarify I am no Schiff) ... When I play Jazz, God help me if my improvisation is a "copy" of how I played last time. Oh the ridicule I have to endure. 😃

Find the best playing moonlight sonata (Barenboim) and you have the tempo.

Well imagine that! My piece is in fact, written as alla breve! I never stopped to consider the ramifications.

Yeah, Robert - I think we arrived at exactly the same conclusion, here;)

Do the 3rd movement.

Of more importance than anything is to make sure the dotted half note following the sixteenth is in time and ON IMPULSE, as opposed to the dragging tenuto played by most pianists.

It’d be wonderful to hear you play the entire song.

2:28 it’s the most amazing thing till 3:17 and amazing again at 4:14 till 5:01 the ghost notes out.

I didn't find the answer, but I measured Robert's performance at 60 bpm in 4/4, or 30 in 2/2. Tempi like 60, 120 and 240 are quite popular. I always believed the origin of human typical walking pace, or our heart rate. Waltz (3/4) would be 180 and its "half brother" 90. Someone?

Thank you, Maestro.🌹🌹🌹🌹

Must check 4/4 or 2/2

A like a nice bit of movement in that movement.

Van Cliburn played it at the faster tempo.

Hola buenastardes señor de la cultura grande le consulto desde argentina quisiera saber su opinion desde su gran conocimiento a cerca de los pianos antiguos que ya andan por los 100 años o mas quisiera su evaluacion en este caso de los pianos erard de cola completa del año 1878 ya bastante biejito me lo paso mirando pianos en venta y estos pianos franceses son mucho mas baratos que los alemanes yo tengo un c bechtein de cola del año 1927 es lindo piano pero no funciona bien eso me amarga mucho pero no puedo hacer nada cuando lo compre no alcance a darme cuenta tocando solo un rato de que no funcionaba bien falto regular la maquina peso de la tecla profundidad algunos martillos no emiten el color correspondiente a la nota y no esta bien afinado poca gente se dedica a las reparaciones y tambien de poco conocimiento volviendo al erard si estaria bien de maquina me combiene o no por ser mas antiguos tambien sus cuerdas van de forma recta y la maquina debe ser mas complicada o estando original tendria que andar bien es el de 2 60 de largo no lo vi personalmente solamente foto tambien le consulto si se puede afinar por el arpa sin refuerzos como si tienen los pianos alemanes tendra lindo sonido o esos no espero su respuesta no lo molesto mas saludos profesor un abrazo

C with a bar through it rarely meant 2/2 or alla breve in the 18th. or early 19th C; it was used to increase the speed. In this case the adagio should be closer to an andante. It is the same sort of thing in allegros. Both Czerny and Hummel assign 4/4 to pieces appearing earlier in barred C.

@petertyrrell3391

11 ай бұрын

@@chlorinda4479 You only select sources which you think agree with your point of view. This is poor musicology. It is rarely helpful to enter discussions when one's motivation is simply hate.

@petertyrrell3391

11 ай бұрын

@@chlorinda4479 Because you only quoted 2 sources which appeared to say that alla Breve time signature only meant 2/2. Czerny quoted several of Beethoven's barred C pieces in C and Hummel does the same with his piano arrangements of 2 Mozart symphonies. There is Tuerk, a letter by CPE Bach, Heinichen and Hoteterre which suggest that barred C could be thought of as 4, a faster 4 than you would otherwise expect. Your comments often suggest you want to do down WW at any cost.

@petertyrrell3391

11 ай бұрын

@@chlorinda4479 Oh, we seem to be in agreement on many things! Perhaps I mistook you for one of the hate-filled trolls who dog anything to do with WW! However, I think you are quoting Czerny's MMs in SB readings whereas I would interpret them in DB. For me an allegretto would be about crotchet = 60 (Carr), so the Op 14 Andante in DB would be close to this. Changing tempo changes everything!

@Pablo-gl9dj

14 күн бұрын

Having no musical instincts also changes everything. Changing dynamics or excessive rubato changes everything. Tempo choices may be the least thing to worry or obsess about ​@@petertyrrell3391

In a review, just a few years after the maestro's death, poet and music critic, Ludwig Rellstab compared the first movement of the piece to a boat floating in the moonlight on Lake Lucerne in Switzerland, an image that has often been associated with love and romance. However, nothing could be further from the truth. As subtly implied by its original title, "Quasi Una Fantasia", Beethoven's world-renowned first movement is more of a "Song of Death" than a "Story of Love". It was undoubtedly written by a troubled man suffering from the heartbreak of a lost love, the grief from the death of a close friend, and the devastation of an impending and unavoidable world of silence. Here is the story behind the masterpiece. kzread.info/dash/bejne/d6mdr9qkgreneto.html

Untuned piano?

@LivingPianosVideos

Жыл бұрын

It's even hard for me to keep up on tuning my piano! With dozens of pianos being worked on, pulling our technicians away to service my piano is tough sometimes. If you ever ask a piano technician when the last time they tuned their own piano, it's a similar thing!

I suggest, also, that if you play it too slowly the triplets in the left hand no longer sound like triplets, which, I believe, should necessariily sound faster than the underlying beat.

I play it a lot faster, in 2/2 time. The melody is in the bass , not the treble (which is a continuous 4/4 drum beat and a funeral match)! :o

2:26 personally I feel it has to be slower to convey the sadness

Very good video but i think it should be even faster, you should see Greg's niemczuk recording

@LivingPianosVideos

11 ай бұрын

That's good to hear since most people play it quite a bit slower!

It s impossible to play two triplet at adagio speed ( around 70 bpm ) I anderstand your vidéo but i don't have the answer to the question ! 70 bpm i play 2 triplets 1 triplet or note ?

@LivingPianosVideos

Жыл бұрын

Feeling the half note as the pulse, not the eighth note is beneficial since Beethoven wrote the piece in cut time (2/2) which means the half note gets one beat.

@0yoon0

Жыл бұрын

@@LivingPianosVideos Do you mean half note is a triplet? your beat is around 35 which seam good but adagio is 70 .So editor or Beethoven mistaken .it s 2 2 Largo or 4 4 adagio.

Robert long time follower here (way back when you had about 36K)🙂 Love your videos and wish you the very best! I think very highly of your presentation teaching and pianist skills as do all who listen to you. Thank you for all of you work! FYI I don’t particularly like the moonlight sonata. However if anyone could convert me it could be you.

I was actually playing this today, my score is in cut time

Not sure what you are on about? The second one sounds 5 seconds more rushed just as it is....

Do you have a reaction to Wim Winters' interpretation? Whether you accept his argument or not, it is rather glorious to hear all the delicious harmonies in the later movements which are often just a blur. Plus, the slow playing prolongs the experience. Sometimes you got more time to fill....

There is no way Moonlight Sonata "should" be played. Play it as fast as you'd like, music is about the expression of the performer. Classical music is slowly dying because too many performers are afraid to do something new with works that have been played the same manner a thousand times over. You can even change notes if you'd like. Beethoven won't mind, he's dead.

@kylekillgannon

Жыл бұрын

A coward's answer to be sure.

@proxy7974

Жыл бұрын

@@kylekillgannon Elaborate?

@kadenariel8726

6 ай бұрын

The idea that playing it slow is doing anything innovative is laughable

How fast SHOULD is for PASSIVE MEMBERS in the music scene as in the World at all. The heart that is in accordance with the music expressing the composers heart knows NO SHOULD. Now his HEART plays his best friends music, aß if the friend would be closeny in the room. There is no SHOULD but GRATEFULLNESS, GRATEFULL LOVE THAT PLAYS.

Yeah I prefer it slower.

Thank you for explaining this. You couldn't give Seymore Bernstein a lesson could you? - because he doesn't get this at all!

The second ‘play’ was too fast. Who wrote the ‘analysis. Dont forget, most things were slower then. Moderate today is 100-120. Then it was 80. Good video though. It should be slow. I play piano and your first rendition, in my opinion was in the ball park. My wife thinks it was still too fast.