*IT IS HUMAN NATURE* to think of people in the past as "as bit thick" and to think of things in the past as worse than modern things - that's how advertising works... I make historical clothing for a hobby - I am ALWAYS astonished how great old designs and fabrics actually were. If you want to transform your life with ONE garment - but a wool cloak. There is a reason people wore wool cloaks for 1300 years - they are AMAZING.

@davidparker9676

2 жыл бұрын

It is in fact the historical items that involved more skill and craft to produce. Modern products are made with cost per unit being the primary concern. Skill is something that has been lost in many industries. Few modern carpenters can build a home to the same degree of quality and workmanship of the homes built 100+ years ago. Many architects are unaware how to make the structures breathe properly to with the placement and design of natural ventilation. This was all common knowledge of the tradesmen and craftsmen of yesteryear. Now the laborers are truly unskilled and the products are not intended to last. The speed of modern production is impressive but the quality is not.

@ellisjackson336

13 күн бұрын

I’ve had some interest in garments that people wore in the Wild West era of the United States

@piccalillipit9211

13 күн бұрын

@@ellisjackson336 Cool

@piccalillipit9211

13 күн бұрын

@@davidparker9676 "Many architects are unaware how to make the structures breathe properly". this is very true...!

I’m so glad you’re covering this. I would think suspension would be one of the top considerations in a car but alas the cup holder design & infotainment seem to be more important to buyers. I think of the Citroen Xantia Activa (still holds top spot in the “moose test”) and no one cared. Is it just me or is the SUV rollover accident now a common occurrence. They don’t lean, they just flip abruptly. I don’t remember as many rollovers prior to SUV’s displacing cars as top sellers (at least in the USA wherein located)

@JulianEdgar

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, I cover the stability of SUVs in the last chapter of the book.

@davidparker9676

2 жыл бұрын

SUVs were never intended to be safety focused family transporters. It is unfortunate that the estate/wagon type of vehicles fell out of favor with the consumers. People that are more concerned about their image and convenience have fueled the SUV sales. SUVs are naturally more prone to rollover due to their height and short wheel base. It is unfortunate that buyers are more concerned about their personal image rather than their family's safety.

@JulianEdgar

2 жыл бұрын

@@davidparker9676 Yes, but 'track' not 'wheelbase'.

@ellisjackson336

13 күн бұрын

@@davidparker9676I would argue that people feel safer in SUVs, because they are bigger. A lot of other large non commercial truck vehicles on the road in the US at least. So they feel safer inside of a larger vehicle themselves. Plus they get to engage in a little “bully” action on the road. My personal car is tiny in comparison, but the most important safety measure of any vehicle is the driver himself. And his or her awareness of ANYTHING around them

@davidparker9676

13 күн бұрын

@@JulianEdgar Tall, short wheelbase vehicles are inherently unstable. I understand that track will improve roll resistance but does very little for stability at speed or under severe braking. The longer wheelbase provides a better ride and directional stability. Most SUVs have a short wheelbase and high center of gravity, a terrible combination for stability in adverse conditions.

Cars I miss from my past: Peugeot’s 404, 504 ti , 505 and 405Mi16 Renault 12 and Virage 1.4 lt. Citroen Berlingo and Renault Kangoo and Renault 20TS

My Cadillac has “basic” electronic shocks (computer controlled valve on the side) and coil springs. The ride is really quite good - even with 20” wheels and super low profile tires. It’s amazing to me more mid and premium cars don’t have this simple CDC setup. I wish electronic CDC dampers were offered in the aftermarket. Previously we had a VW Touareg with air suspension and similar CDC. I was sold on the advantages of “smart” dampers after this. The comfort, handling, and stability offered - including when towing a trailer - were so much better than the standard suspension system. The Porsche Cayenne actually used identical dampers - a software option in the suspension computer would change the ride height and damping level.

Hi Julian, wondering if you cover the Lancia Flavia of 1968 or so? Had exceptionally good review at the time. Always driven Front wheel drive cars. Starting with Saab 96. Austin 1100 was great on corrugated dirt roads in Botswana. Problem that the CVJs didn't last long! Loved Renault 6 torsion bar suspension also very comfortable on long journeys. Liked the direct gear change through the dashboard. Very happy with current car, Skoda Rooster. Best wishes Rodney.

No mention of the Citroen DS cars, fabulous ride, brakes and suspension.

@JulianEdgar

2 жыл бұрын

Covered in my book.

First I've heard of the 4CV. I've been trying to envision a way of displacing roll without sacrificing the pitch control inherent in the 2cv design. The double wishbone is a brilliant solution.

No mention on Citroën's Hydropneumatic suspension! Surely the best suspension system?

@JulianEdgar

2 жыл бұрын

Yes I cover that system in the book.

@avoohanian

2 жыл бұрын

... but quite a complex arrangement as it integrated brake, steering and suspension. Had the pleasure (when it ran right) to own a Citroen XM for a few years and really miss the smooth ride. Nothing I have driven or ridden in since has ever come close. One thing though is that it did have quite a prominent boat like floating pitch in high speed motorway driving. I loved it, my passengers not so much. 😁

@srfrg9707

2 жыл бұрын

No doupt Citroën's Hydropneumatic suspension is the best if you consider confort but it is costly to maintain. I speak from experience. My dad had a DS21. The reason he sold it was leaks in the hydrolics. He loved his DS so much but repair costs made it unsustanable. Cost is also the reason why Bose's active suspension never hit the roads.

@avoohanian

2 жыл бұрын

@@srfrg9707 yes, I saw the video of the Bose suspension which looks awesome. I believe research has been taken over by another engineering firm so perhaps they can streamline the design thus optimising costs. I agree that the hydropneumatic system was so complex. In fact I looked at a four part series on KZread yesterday about maintaining the Hydractive system and feel for my mechanic at the time!! 🤣

Have you seen Koni's FSD (now called "Active") dampers? They use bypass valving to stiffen under progressive load transfers but will soften for sudden bumps. It is all done mechanically but is designed to perform like a modern magnetic system without electronics. Do you think these would be a good modern option?

@timothyscherer9163

Жыл бұрын

uhhhh thats basically a 4 way damper? which has been used in racing since 1980s

Nearly verything modern seems to have suspension from a skateboard, it's all about handling and nothing about passenger comfort, even the seats are hard, no compliance at all.

@JulianEdgar

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, that's a topic I cover in the Epilogue of my book.

If these old types of suspension were so great, why have they disappeared? I do think connecting front and rear suspension has some major drawbacks: They increase pitch during accelerating and breaking and if you put load in the back, the suspension will drop more. Is there any car that combines anti-pitch interconnected suspension with self levelling suspension? That would be ideal.

@JulianEdgar

2 жыл бұрын

If low-drag aerodynamics are so good, why did they disappear for 70 or more years? Popularity is never a good guide to technological excellence. Re your points, all cars with front/rear interconnected suspension have techniques to reduce dive under brakes and reduce squat under loading. And yes, there have been cars produced in the past with interconnected, self-levelling suspension - eg Packard Torsion-Level and Austin 3 litre. I am sure you'd enjoy the book!

I'm contemplating buying your book, having interest in car suspension myself. What is your opinion of Packards torsion bar suspension. I drove one for 3 years during high school... it was pretty impressive for ride in my opinion.

@JulianEdgar

2 жыл бұрын

I cover the Packard Torsion Level suspension in detail in my book. Unfortunately I have never ridden in the car but it was a very impressive system in engineering terms.

@ctc-ben7565

2 жыл бұрын

Well I'm sold, I just ordered the book on Amazon. The only fault to the Packards system was the controls for the motor were ALWAYS on. So I had an off switch installed so no one would play with it and run down the battery

Is the system from the McLaren MP4-12C in the book?

@JulianEdgar

2 жыл бұрын

No it isn't, but the functional equivalent is - active anti-roll bars.

Absolutely great vid!

@JulianEdgar

2 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

But if I was going to design suspension for comfort, I would definitely be combining air suspension and hydroelastic suspension. With those magnetic dampers. Probably tuned mass dampers as well. I want the progressive stiffness of the air suspension for small bump compliance but I also really want warp, pitch and roll control hydroelastic suspension can provide. Maybe putting it all together is how we can finally do skyhook.

@JulianEdgar

6 ай бұрын

You'd enjoy my history of car suspension book - www.amazon.com/Car-Suspension-over-years-handling/dp/B09CRNQB9P or Amazon in your country.

@Rose_Butterfly98

6 ай бұрын

@@JulianEdgar yes, I will be purchasing it for Christmas.

What Country are your books printed in?

@JulianEdgar

2 жыл бұрын

The Amazon books are usually printed in the country of sale. Veloce books are printed in India, I think.

@lorimcquinn3966

2 жыл бұрын

@@JulianEdgar Thanks for the prompt reply & information.

Had some of those cars, and it is as you say. BUT, that is not our future. The suspension we are going to rely on is our legs, and animal drawn carts. This time then, is a past, deplored, memory to those who survive, and fantasy to those born after that.

@JulianEdgar

2 жыл бұрын

Why legs and animal drawn carts? A bicycle is the most efficient form of transport ever invented. (And I do cover the suspension of animal drawn vehicles in my book!)

The problem with today’s automobile industry is they are having to cut costs to the bone. Car design is now ran by accountants and not engineers. So suspension is now what’s cheapest to manufacture rather than what’s the best performing. You can actually follow a car model through its different generations and actually see a step back in suspension. For example, early Mazda MX-5 / Miata had double wishbone suspension all around, on every wheel. In later models the rear was changed to a multi link setup.

@finlaymcdiarmid5832

2 жыл бұрын

Budget cars no longer exist thats for certain. Dacias are now being made with automatics? Who tee who?

@Ergaster55

2 жыл бұрын

double wishbone IS a type of multilink suspension, and in fact 5 arm multilink is far more complex than double wishbone suspension. the reason its widely used over double wishbone today is the fact that good multilink suspension geometries are possible with the aid of computers and software, and for packaging reasons. look up videos by xf motorsports, he has some fantastic videos about different suspension types and anti-roll + anti-pitch geometry design, which julian edgar failed to mention in both of his videos i've watched so far about suspension design.

@tiagobelo4965

Жыл бұрын

in theory multilink (usually 5+ linkages) can be much better than double wishbones, this is thanks to the ability to change certain alignment parameters and their progressions (say, for example, toe) independently from others. I can pretty much guarantee you that mazda did not change to a multilink setup out of cost reduction, as those are usually more expensive systems to develop, manufacture and assemble.

Let's say I were to somehow replace all the springs and dampers on my car with hydrolastic units connected front to rear This would increase dive and squat, would it not? With the front under compression being able to increase rear lifting force and vice versa? Mind you, I'd imagine that blocking the lines under braking wouldn't be the task it once was. Way back when you'd probably need some kind of mechanism like in an inertia reel seat belt to detect g-forces but now we have computers for that. And check valves, so that under light braking the anti-pitch system could still work if the bump was big enough... Remind me why this isn't a thing? Is it just price?

@celeron55

2 жыл бұрын

I think you have to look at the numbers cars are sold with to see why. Do you see any suspension numbers? No, it's energy consumption, amount of cargo space, crash ratings, electric range, infontainment display size and whatnot. Nothing related to suspension, thus only a crazy car company would spend any resources on it.

@celeron55

2 жыл бұрын

The practical question is, what number could we use? Maybe Julian can answer.

@midnighteightsix6919

2 жыл бұрын

Regarding the squat and dive your thinking is correct, however recall the diagram that showed the steep rising wheel rate in compression/rebound. A hydrolastic suspension needs this amount of rising rate so as to restrict excessive displacement and hence minimise dive and squat, proportionate to the amount of longitudinal weight transfer.

@JulianEdgar

2 жыл бұрын

All cars with interconnected front/rear suspension designs have mechanisms to resist pitch under braking. But yes, add some electronic control and these systems would have worked even better.

@JulianEdgar

2 жыл бұрын

There are plenty of 'suspension numbers' that can be used, but the best approach would be for people to actually experience what a good ride quality is and then assess current cars for themselves. I doubt even 1 per cent of current car buyers have ever been in a car with good ride!

double wishbone good

What an absurd statement to make, that someone couldn't come up with a design solution without having a complete understanding of past solutions. Some the best innovations occur with a fresh perspective and I believe that some of the statements on pitch are completely false.

@JulianEdgar

2 жыл бұрын

(1) I have never heard of even one inventor who made a major breakthrough who wasn't extremely well versed in what had come before in that area. The examples are numerous. Conversely, I have heard of many people who *thought* they'd made major breakthroughs - until it was pointed out that it had all been done before! (2) Which statements regarding pitch are incorrect?