This makes me *wonder* if one day, people will figure out how to resize the stage in tandem with these effects to create a true mini and mega wonder effect.

@RadTheMann

7 ай бұрын

*tandem

@ThatOneYoutubePerson

7 ай бұрын

@@RadTheMann thank you. I changed it

@RadTheMann

7 ай бұрын

Np

@ryanlovesmicrowaves

7 ай бұрын

I suppose it would still be possible to make a sort of mega mushroom like power up, just really annoying to have to set every actor within the level to get smaller

@plushiplushi8591

7 ай бұрын

This makes you....WONDER???

This is also likely why this effect is used for the first Bowser Jr. fight in particular - the room has to be a simple rectangle to maintain the illusion, rather than the more complex rooms for later, "harder" Bowser Jr. fights.

Makes me wonder if you could have a fake Mario Galaxy affect by being in Wubba form and having the camera rotation tied to player rotation.

@slimgrim3607

7 ай бұрын

it makes you WONDER, does it??? ;)

@dilass

7 ай бұрын

this would be amazing

@phoenixfarnham775

7 ай бұрын

WONDER??

The fog effect is pretty clearly visible on video, at least on the zoom-out (room becomes big/you become “small”). This is a really clever trick! I love to see games get reverse engineered to see behind the curtain, and you’re doing a great job explaining and demonstrating the work.

This reminds me of a game called Outer Wilds- the physics engine of that game doesn't allow for jumping, so the devs worked around it by making the entire game universe move under the player to make it seem like they jumped.

@Doge_OfficialAccount

6 ай бұрын

Imagine you're just livin life and suddenly your house moves under you.

@11cat123

6 ай бұрын

The physics engine allowed for jumping just fine. The act of jumping is a product of newtons laws of motion which the game follows to an almost ridiculous degree. The player is always at 0,0,0 with the universe moving around them for a different reason, floating point errors. Computer's represent decimals with floating point numbers, but it you type something like 10.5 into a calculator then the floating point is actually stored as something similar to 10.5000000004. They are estimations limited by the format of floats. As your float grows bigger, to represent the integer part of the number you have to lose more and more precision past the decimal point which can lead to a lot of issues with both graphic elements and physics. For anything outside of open world games this size limit isn't an issue. But open world games will trip this limit. Game's like Skyrim will have each "tile" of the map be a separate coordinate grid and solve it that way, but in Outer Wilds case they use a "floating origin" which basically just means in this case the origin is always on the player. It actually leads to more work on their end since they have to manually update the positions of every object loaded into memory an additional time after the physics are done without affecting said physics. Physics is all relative, which means physics calculations to calculate an objects relative velocity don't change their result no matter where the origin is. The Origin point could update to the players position every 30 seconds, or to the center of the nearest planet/celestial body for the same effect, but those approaches would over complicate things and leave edge cases open for the player to see floating point errors so keeping it on the player at all times is the solution they went with.

@mslabo102s2

5 ай бұрын

Wait which game are you talking about, the one with dying world or the not-too-remarkable RPG?

This also means that the players physics can be changed with wonder effects without using the metal Mario transformation

7 ай бұрын

Well, this is how the metal Mario transformation works. By changing the players physics. So yes.

When you slow down the footage, the fog in the background not changing size is a lot more obvious. Honestly, it adds to the effect in my opinion.

This makes a lot of sense. If you're only going to change the player's size in this one boss fight, why bother having to program scaling hitboxes and have to fix all of the inevitable jank that arises from attempting to change a player's size?

That’s the most interesting thing i ever heard about this game. Really weird how they did it, the illusion is so well done that you dont even notice. Your explanation was amazing!

The first level editor for Super Mario Bros released almost 3 decades after the game came out. Fushigi is being worked on not even a month after SMBW's release date. Wild

It was all an illusion? That makes alot of sence why Playermorphtype 8 and 9 did not Change the players size. I do hope to see one day a Custom WonderFlower which can modify players size if that's even possible.

that's really cool. good example of working smarter and not harder

honestly, this is more impresive than if you were actualy resized, realy puts a sence of WONDER in what the game devs can do

Are there any other weird game programming workarounds in this game? I would love to see more videos about this!

My initial guess was they were using foreground and background for the sizes, I was shocked to hear that the room gets bigger lol.

Well how bloody clever!

3:41 That was the greatest thing I've ever seen Also the fog not changing was somehow a happy accident cause it makes the aesthetic change of the fight even better

I relly enjoy watching your videos and shorts. Not only are they very interesting in terms of subject matter, but I think you have a very nice narrative voice. I find it very pleasant to listen to you explain things. Especially as you do this in a very understandable way. Keep up the good work!

@_skorme

7 ай бұрын

And I also really liked the topic of this video. It shows how creative the Devs were doing some of these effects. They really cared about this game.

@Rimea

7 ай бұрын

thank you!

you’ve been popping off with these Wonder modding vids, keep it up Rimea.

That's so weird that it works that way! At the start of the video, my guess was that they used perspective like when you use a pipe to go to the background and foreground of levels, but with some added code so that you can still interact with Bowser Jr.

Majora's Mask does this as well during it's Twinmold fight. There's a large and small version of the arena that you get instantly warped between.

But why did they not simply scale the characters? This is such a weird way to implement something like this

@ireallydontknowifiamhonest

7 ай бұрын

This is not really a weird way to implement this, Scaling Hitboxes can screw up Physics and other Sensor Detections and Honestly If you Can Fake it, Why Bother implementing the Real Thing if it's Only Used Once

reminds me of how Super Mario World also did some illusion trickery in the boss arenas too

What if you start from 0 and keep incrementing PlayerWonderType and MorphPlayerType by 1? Can you find unused wonder effects?

I only noticed this when playing for the first time because I remembered fucking around with fog volumes in Resonite and noticed it looked like they were scaled up and down like they did tbere

wait. if the room itself gets bigger or smaller... then how does this room work for online? because from what I recall. no matter if they appear big or small. they still move within the confines of the screen and dont walk off screen.

@Rimea

7 ай бұрын

oh that's a great question, either that's not an issue because the camera also gets resized, or there's some behind the scenes workaround for this room in particular, I'm not really sure to be honest

@ireallydontknowifiamhonest

7 ай бұрын

haven't had the time to look at the game's code yet but i have to assume that they probably implemented this by looking at the player instance on a multiplayer session and rendering that instance of the player to be within the regions of the screen boundaries

@IceMetalPunk

7 ай бұрын

Easier to scale a render than an actual object with hitboxes and collisions. So you can scale down people who are "big" when your room is bigger, and vice-versa.

I know that a lot of players might gripe about "a lack of effort", as per usual, but seeing how tricks like this work is perfect for anyone looking at getting into game design. Good stuff!

@Aktedya1-jt7vw

6 ай бұрын

It's tricks like these that have allowed Nintendo's games to remain so polished on relatively outdated hardware

I love videos like this and i was very interested even though i’ve never seen this game until now.

It’s still a win if you want to make a custom physic level

You could still use the wonder part of the boss with the slow and fast wonder effects

That's crazy. I would have never thought that would have been easier. I would have just resized the player and its collider, etc. I am still not sure why it is easier to resize the room, but interesting they did that either way.

Its just incredible how you almost doubled your amount of followers in one month. Keep on you really deserved this 😊

Of all things you wouldn't think they'd need to do any trickery with, it's resizing the player model. Especially when they're literally resizing Bowser Jr. in the same damn room.

This is actually pretty cool.

Interesting to see how the game works :D

I have a question does boss battles work fine in non palace levels or if they only work in palace can you put more than one or change their order You always make the most interesting videos about how mario wonder works keep up the good work

This means gravity is a wonder affect and I want a "wonder 9" level

I wonder why they chose to do it like this. They changed bowser juniors size so why couldn’t they do the same with Mario? I’m guess it might has something to do with how the hit boxes work?

oh wow, when you pointed out the fog it became so noticeable immediately

It’s odd because they’ve already made mega and mini mush rooms in past games

Reminds me of the Ornstein and Smough cutscene from darksouls

For so long Sci-fi writers have considered the concept of the "Shrink Ray", but it turns out all we REALLY needed was a universe enlarger.

Bro I clicked and got a Mario wonder ad

@Dj_TheFish

7 ай бұрын

yeah because youtube found a ad similar to the content your watching

this game has a lot of modding potential....

Huh, I thought they just used the same trick as when you hop into a pipe that brings into the foreground.

Long Daisy isn't real, Long Daisy cannot hurt you.

awesome content, thank you!

At this rate, this guy will figure out how to make completely 100% original custom wonder effects.

PlayerWonderType9 Fits For A Luigi Game, Like new super luigi u, you jump HAIGH

Before this video I’m going to guess, that bowser is putting the player in the foreground and background, and the reason you get thrown off screen when messing with it is coordinate issues. Edit: I was completely wrong.

I can kinda see the fog!

Interesting it was easier to scale up the environment over the character/hitbox. Like I genuinely still don't understand that part but if it is, it is

@PedroPalmeiraRick

7 ай бұрын

if you try to scale the environment, you have to implement it once. If you try to scale the character, you have to do it for each power-up and variant as well

@kurtb1980

7 ай бұрын

@@PedroPalmeiraRick that makes sense but are the characters hit boxes that different? And then wouldn't code be able to x2 or however big to all playable characters when the affect is active? I'm unsure lol

Video game stage magic

I wish the Sonic community would be as willing to make level editors as the Mario community. We’ve been stuck using the same outdated editor for Sonic Mania for at least five years. It’s been abandoned and it’s most important features aren’t even implemented. And for the other three we’re only just getting a modernized one for the Origins/Retro Engine versions.

Instantly reminds me of Dark Souls 1, where in the Ornstein & Smough fight, if you kill Smough first, Ornstein seems to grow in size. Actually, the room shrinks around him to give the illusion of him growing

If Wonder Flower and the Flower Kingdom is taking over by Bowser in Super Mario Bros Wonder in 2023. Nintendo Switch means Daisy is include Toadette and Yoshi for the first time!

Mario Wonder has some really cool possibilities, and somewhat more responsive controls than Mario Maker... but without the "maker" part, it doesn't feel worth playing after a trip or two through the game. I hope the community will develop ways to make it easy for people to find, install, and play new levels.

RIP adding a Mini/Mega Mushroom mod.

How do badge challange levels work? Specifically, how they ovveride your badge and how they make you not lose lives when you die?

Still couldn’t cheap in the day-night cycles on BCP sunset wilds.

Nice video bro! From all these super interesting videos, I think you have earned a subscriber! 👍

@alphabluu

7 ай бұрын

BAD video bro! From all these super UNINTERESTING videos, I think you have LOST a subscriber! MWAHAHAHAHA 👎

why are the devs so smart damn

I wondered if the size of the room and bowser jr was being manipulated there, a similar trick was used in a dark souls cutscene with Ornstein absorbing Smoughs' power

I wonder if this illusion was also used in the beginning cutscene where Castle Bowser flies closer to the screen.

could you perharps do a video explaining more on "complex" wonder effects? some are easy to grasp for me but some are just kind of an enigma on how they'd done it, for example the singing piranha plant and the slow down time and speed up ones, AND bowser rage stage

@goober4347

7 ай бұрын

slow and fast time is probably just the game's running speed getting changed.

Lore of How the Mini and Mega Mario Wonder Effects are Faked momentum 100

I'm not a programmer, but I feel like it would have been easier to change the players size than change both the room and the camera simultaneously. I mean, they've already done it in the past with mini and mega mushrooms, so its clearly possible :P

@flameofthephoenix8395

7 ай бұрын

Not really. It's quite easy to change the room size as you just move a few lines around and the camera is just altering a variable, but changing the player themselves is much trickier as it requires altering the hitbox of the player which is very tricky to do in comparison.

Makes me wonder if it is possible to create a same kind of illusion in a normal level as a wonder effect

@NotGabe001

7 ай бұрын

I wonder how many other comments on this video start with "Makes me wonder"

I thought about the fog is coming meme 💀

I think I got what you’re talking about 4:41

Wonderful!!

i wonder* why they went for this workaround instead of just scaling and applying effects to Mario

I thought it was forced perspective. Adjusting translate Z (or Y depending on engine) of the player to make them look bigger because it’s closer in space. They already used this translate to make the level sections where player is running around in the background. Weird they would develop a whole new scale method for a one-off section to achieve something that already happens regularly in the rest of the game.

@hibye4062

23 күн бұрын

They couldn't just have brought the player's model closer to the screen, because the game uses an orthographic camera (so no matter how far or close an object is, it appears the same size). The stuff with the foreground/background sections are faked as well.

It's certainly strange. I can't see a reason as to why they wouldn't just operate on Player's model scale directly if they're already doing it for Bowser Jr anyway.

did anybody see the fog too?

Wonder Effects that have been playing with Prince Florian support Mario in 2023

4:22 yeah i see it

It's so simple it's genius.

would it be possible to mod custom powerups or heavily alter one?

I suspect that the mini and mega effects are created by having the program display the character with less or more pixels on the screen.

Why are so many KZreadr saying that KZread's compression makes things hard to see, when you can see the things?

@Rimea

7 ай бұрын

there's no way to preview what KZread's compression is going to do with your footage before uploading, so it's safer to presume things will be more compressed than you'd like

@atdynax

7 ай бұрын

In the end i always see the things that are assumed to be invisible though, so the compression doesn't seem to be this bad. I have yet to see an example where it didn't work, and even then it would still be an exception.@@Rimea

@KN44COD

7 ай бұрын

why is water wet

I find it interesting the easiest(?) Solution Nintendo saw to handle this boss fight was to change the entire stage instead of just the player and Bowser Jr...

I would have guessed they would just move the characters closer or further from the camera and project the collision bounds.

@hibye4062

23 күн бұрын

They couldn't just have brought the player's model closer to the screen, because the game uses an orthographic camera (so no matter how far or close an object is, it appears the same size). The stuff with the foreground/background sections are faked as well

Could it be like the background and foreground parts of level, which make the characters look smaller or larger?

Thats see cool

Now the question becomes, can you resize other levels?

Hey, just noticed something! If you ever plan on doing something like adding Wario to the game, you could give him WonderEffect 9, and if you wanted to make, say, blue toad faster and lighter, just give him WonderEffect 9!

@bardsonahill

7 ай бұрын

I think wonder effects apply globally, so this shouldn’t work

can you remove the camera change to show how it works?

cool

Any KZread title with "fake" must be slightly clickbaity... but not in this case!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA in Wonderland

0:25 the video is gone 💀

Hmm. How odd. I mean. Why would they do it like this? If you have your modified movement mechanics, why not just include the scaled model as well? The shrinking could also just be an effect. Maybe this is an artefact of a previous (cut) design decision?

How did you get this code?

People who saw the fog resize and move slower/faster ⬇

w

@ALemonWithGooglyEyes

7 ай бұрын

w

@iHarv_

7 ай бұрын

w

@PiggyMccool_XD

7 ай бұрын

W chain

@carlos_did_a_thing

7 ай бұрын

w

@purge2481

7 ай бұрын

w

Clever? Yes. Unique? No, not really. It's a fairly common trick family to manipulate everything except the player, because of how complex a good feeling player controller gets and that mucking with scale can mess with that. Since the physics parameters they're changing already are adjustable for other effects, it's much simpler to build from that instead of making changing player size work, at least for a limited application. I like to say that games are an art of lying to the player in a way that feels fun. (And CG in general, lying in a way that looks convincing.)

@Rimea

7 ай бұрын

this comment section can't seem to agree whether resizing the player would be so easy that this solution is insane, or resizing the player would be so difficult that resizing the room instead was the obvious solution

@cad97

7 ай бұрын

As someone who has done gamedev in a professional setting, my opinion is that *it depends*, and on a lot of factors. It could be that everything works, it could be that a lot of stuff breaks. My guess would be that you could probably counteract any oddness with a different config for the player physics, but there's lots of other stuff done for a fluid feeling player controller that could easily break if they weren't written to be scaling independent. The fixed camera also likely helps out a lot, otherwise being another thing to potentially be thrown off by scaling effects. A power up transformation state for mini/mega would likely be straightforward, but it wouldn't be simple to get the clean scaling between states and would need to be done for each other power up that could get scaled. If it's not too difficult to grab and change the player scale, it'd be interesting to see how that behaves. But it doesn't seem likely to be a thing that can be done just by data.

@cad97

7 ай бұрын

@@Rimea I think it offers some insight into how people think about problems, tbh, and which potential pitfalls come to mind. On average, programmers think about code driven solutions and designers think about configuration driven solutions, since that's the domain they primarily work in. A primary part of my job is getting the two worlds to communicate and work with instead of around each other.

@BenightedAlizar

6 ай бұрын

I recall scaling a 3D character in Unity in the past, and it mangled the character. Something to do with the armature and/or animations not scaling properly in proportion with the mesh, I think. Not sure why. Scaling in Godot seems to work fine graphically, but it doesn't like it if a Rigidbody (the node that handles character's physics) is scaled. It's possible that Wonder's engine has some problems with scaling the player. The level itself is likely far simpler and much "safer" to scale. I'm really curious tbh!

I dont know if you read comments, but i wanted to ask why you stopped uploading and deleted your previous videos, i hope everything is okay and that you'll make an official announcement soon, best of luck.

@knatred1489

5 ай бұрын

the videos were taken down by nintendo and he's trying to fix that. more videos are probably on the way.

@Rimea

5 ай бұрын

surely if you were looking for an official announcement, you'd check my community posts where you'd find exactly that lol yeah, videos got taken down by Nintendo, they should be back up within a few weeks, this happened to coincide with me taking a break throughout January, but I'll probably get back to making weekly videos next month

@lukesupergame

5 ай бұрын

​@@RimeaThanks for responding! I tried to check community posts, but it doesn't show anything, probably something wrong on my end, but again, thanks for taking out the time to answer me!

THEY'RE FAKE?!

Prove me wrong: the elephant should always have wonder effect 8 on